U18b2 Some testing from Guardian Blue solo on T2

It's good to hear that the partial avoidance change seems to be a net positive for Guardians, I was afraid when I first read it. I don't like it, but I'm sure i can get used to seeing partials float over my head dozens of times a minute. However, with all the data that's been posted about how absurd it is, I'm afraid Turbine might just remove the change to partial avoidances while leaving full avoidances at 13%. They... wouldn't do that, would they?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thatabguy

Sadly you need zero Finesse and 0 Physical/Tactical Mastery to hold aggro. Once you get a monster down to between 90-93% of its Morale remaining a single forced taunt will keep the monster glued to you for the remainder of the battle (myself and @Arathaert have run tests proving this); excluding other game mechanics such as where the tank receives a debuff that causes them to lose aggro while the debuff is active.

No tank can complain that they do not have enough dps to hold aggro, the sad state of the game allows forced taunts to do all of the tanking for you, all that tanks have to worry about is staying alive and avoiding special attacks.

Wardens just need to spam their taunt gambits alongside gambits to buff their defences, avoidances and self heals and woolaa they are tanking, they do not require dps to hold aggro.

---

This is true for guards and captains. My captain in the tanking build has exactly 0 finesse and captain's dps is a joke anyway - keeping aggro is never a problem because captains have 2 force taunt skills (ranged with 15s cd and melee with 20s cd). Though I do rely on healing aggro as it does help at the start of large trash pulls. Guards have more than that: 3 taunt skills combined with a force taunt action up to 15s makes keeping aggro a trivial task. This is one of the reasons why I stopped tanking on my guard.

But wardens are in a completely different situation. They have only 1 taunt skill with 20s cooldown. This is not nearly enough, so they do rely on other sources of aggro such as dps or heals at least in the initial phase of the fight (before the mobs are down to 90-93% of morale). A simple reduction of warden's heals and dps will destroy them as tanks completely. Unless they get more taunt skills or even higher threat multipliers as a compensation.

Returning to the topic, from the point of view of a captain I love the upcoming change. For tanking captains every partial avoidance event is equal to a defeat event which buffs some skills. For example, it increases significantly the Rallying Cry healing and gives a stackable incoming healing buff (up to 25%). On the live server it may take a while to get enough defeat events in a single boss fight. Not a problem on Bullroarer at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lunasa

This is true for guards and captains. My captain in the tanking build has exactly 0 finesse and captain's dps is a joke anyway - keeping aggro is never a problem because captains have 2 force taunt skills (ranged with 15s cd and melee with 20s cd). Though I do rely on healing aggro as it does help at the start of large trash pulls. Guards have more than that: 3 taunt skills combined with a force taunt action up to 15s makes keeping aggro a trivial task. This is one of the reasons why I stopped tanking on my guard.

But wardens are in a completely different situation. They have only 1 taunt skill with 20s cooldown. This is not nearly enough, so they do rely on other sources of aggro such as dps or heals. A simple reduction of warden's heals and dps will destroy them as tanks completely. Unless they get more taunt skills or even higher threat multipliers as a compensation.

Returning to the topic, from the point of view of a captain I love the upcoming change. For tanking captains every partial avoidance event is equal to a defeat event which buffs some skills. For example, it increases significantly the Rallying Cry healing and gives a stackable incoming healing buff (up to 25%). On the live server it may take a while to get enough defeat events in a single boss fight. Not a problem on Bullroarer at all.

---

Lol no it wont. Just use one eob and you barely can lose mob. I have never lowt the aggro on warden post trait trees, if possible its even more faceroll on trash mob tanking than guardian.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by siipperi

Lol no it wont. Just use one eob and you barely can lose mob. I have never lowt the aggro on warden post trait trees, if possible its even more faceroll on trash mob tanking than guardian.

---

This is exactly what I am talking about. EoB is a morale tap. It is both damage+healing, but it is not a force taunt skill. The post to which I replied implied that all tanks can keep aggro without any dps or heals, and I pointed out that for wardens this approach does not work. They can't spam "taunt gambits" because they don't have any.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lunasa

This is exactly what I am talking about. EoB is a morale tap. It is both damage+healing, but it is not a force taunt skill. The post to which I replied implied that all tanks can keep aggro without any dps or heals, and I pointed out that for wardens this approach does not work. They can't spam "taunt gambits" because they don't have any.

---

Almost. What they CAN do is get healing aggro; Conviction in particular has a use as an aggro grabber, since it's AOE, and also doesn't damage the mob.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thatabguy

No tank can complain that they do not have enough dps to hold aggro, the sad state of the game allows forced taunts to do all of the tanking for you, all that tanks have to worry about is staying alive and avoiding special attacks.

Wardens just need to spam their taunt gambits alongside gambits to buff their defences, avoidances and self heals and woolaa they are tanking, they do not require dps to hold aggro.

---

You do know lot all about guardian, but looks like you know very little about warden. As someone already pointed out, warden has only 1 force taunt and it's direct skill, not gambit. It has 20sec cd and last like 5sec. It's also effect 10 targets and it's not ranged.
Warden aggro building is done with dps and with heals, not with force taunt because it really don't hold mobs alone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aedfrith

Almost. What they CAN do is get healing aggro; Conviction in particular has a use as an aggro grabber, since it's AOE, and also doesn't damage the mob.

---

Yes conviction works very well for pulling aggro, as long as you have a smart healer who don't try to push HPS as high as possible. Example Dome dumbo fight is faceroll with smart healer, but if you have healer who spam heal, then it can be very difficult because you cannot win that race with just conviction and you don't have any ranged force taunts to pull of thouse archers hitting that healer what in turn spam heal him/herself even more to stay alive...