U19.1 - Endgame Raid Jewellery will be obsolete

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Originally Posted by MourneBlade

Do you have a link to this supposed data sheet? I'd really like to see it! We all know Sap. was just some CM with an over inflated ego that spouted a bunch of nonsense. I think you are Full of it with this data sheet you claim exists-considering turbine has Never released any data concerning numbers of players and/or what they do in game. So take your "get use to it" and shove it.....

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The CM indeed posted this. I do not know the data sheet, but he said "single digit percentage". That said, he did not say who qualifies to be a "raider".
Given how this was used in the community, it is everyone that plays instances. IMO it was people interested only in the hardest content and things like server firsts.
The old CM was playing divide and conquer. IMO not a good idea, as too many player groups depend on each other, even if they don't see it. With the least common factor being the shared cost of servers and common development.

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Originally Posted by xinofie

Sorry, but Raiders have always been and always will be the minority of this MMO. One of the older CM's posted a data sheet, before he left that had the raiders as barely 1% of the current population, and that was years ago. I doubt it has grown much, if any since.

You nor anyone else, reserve the right to tell other players they don't deserve gear. You think raids in this game are so difficult that they should place the raiders at elite levels? Where they can continue to gate the groups/raids with players that already have said gear, and not fill them with people who need said gear?

Get use to it, it has been like this since Moria and it is welcomed by more than it is hated.

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He never said it's 1% and it was just an easy excuse to justify Turbine's fail in group content when they delayed instance cluster during RoR.
You are not very good with Lotro history and spread lies ; )
And no , there was no data sheet. Thats in your imagination buddy.

I remember this attitude back in the day and it pisses me off , cause all it resulted to was lower player base ,server merges , a lower budget for the game and hate in general.

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Originally Posted by BotLike

...but seriously , thats a first in a MMO world.
~30 minutes of flower picking is more rewarding that t2 raid rewards...

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So true.

Turbine want to get rid of all raiders and transform their game in an harvest moon like ?
Congratulations it's done.

Exactly, nobody is denying FI and landscape players good gear, we just see no justification that they are rewarded with better gear than the rewards from the raid. Have 199 stat or something, but to be in some aspects geared better than a raider is just absurd.

Back when I first started playing lotro and seen a purple item and then even a teal one, I was too happy. I have no idea why someone would expect to have gear greater than the raid one for nothing.

I was a bit disappointed when the new featured jewelry came out, but this is just a new level of dumb. The featured jewels at least weren't better than jewelry from the t2 raid...

The t2 osgiliath instance jewelry already had an abysmally low drop rate and could be situationally better than featured jewelry. Now, they are completely obselete in every way.

What exactly does a person who doesn't run hard t2 instances (osgiliath/pelennor) or throne raids even need the best jewelry in the game for? To one-shot landscape mobs? Giving out jewelry like this just makes it harder to find groups for osgiliath instances, since people no longer have incentive to run them. The old featured jewelry (item level 221) was already more than good enough for ALL solo content.

This system just encourages people to mindlessly pull and nuke everything in featured instances t1, or run around and pick flowers. Instead of running challenging and fun instances.

So many of you abused a bug in order to upgrade your raid armor and now are complaining about empty jewelry. Cry me a river.

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Originally Posted by Gandalphor

Exactly, nobody is denying FI and landscape players good gear, we just see no justification that they are rewarded with better gear than the rewards from the raid. Have 199 stat or something, but to be in some aspects geared better than a raider is just absurd.

Back when I first started playing lotro and seen a purple item and then even a teal one, I was too happy. I have no idea why someone would expect to have gear greater than the raid one for nothing.

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They won't be better geared in bling than the raider - if the raider goes to pick flowers. Have you seen the grind? It's huge, and I mean, massively huge. I'd hardly call it nothing. It takes some stamina for a player to grind that out, not sure I will be able to stick it out on more than one alt, so I doubt many will even do it considering the advantage is very small over FI jewels. What's with all the stuff saying casuals will have better bling than raiders? They won't if raiders grind it too. They will though if raiders can't be arsed with it, which is mostly what the problem is IMO.

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Originally Posted by siipperi

Just here to show my support to the fellow community that is getting discriminated once more.

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Raiders can group and get the flowers, solo players can't get the raid armor without grouping. That IS discrimination; not your elitist tantrum.

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Originally Posted by Finrarion

I was a bit disappointed when the new featured jewelry came out, but this is just a new level of dumb. The featured jewels at least weren't better than jewelry from the t2 raid...

The t2 osgiliath instance jewelry already had an abysmally low drop rate and could be situationally better than featured jewelry. Now, they are completely obselete in every way.

What exactly does a person who doesn't run hard t2 instances (osgiliath/pelennor) or throne raids even need the best jewelry in the game for? To one-shot landscape mobs? Giving out jewelry like this just makes it harder to find groups for osgiliath instances, since people no longer have incentive to run them. The old featured jewelry (item level 221) was already more than good enough for ALL solo content.

This system just encourages people to mindlessly pull and nuke everything in featured instances t1, or run around and pick flowers. Instead of running challenging and fun instances.

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Why does it always have to be solo V raider? Try to take that hat off for a few seconds and think about the other type of player in the mix. The casual raiders. There are lots and lots of them in the game. Not hardcore, not up there in ability or skill level as the frequent die hard raiders that are really good at what they do, but not casual soloists either. They may be slowly building up their gear, trying, to get to a place where they can complete the hardest content in the game. This new jewelry is not a huge benefit as in, game breaking amounts, but it may just be enough to give that extra little nudge to casual raiders, to enable them to complete content that they can almost do, but not quite. If a few avid soloists that never need them pick them up as well, so be it. They are not going to break anything running their preferred content overgeared. All it means is it becomes boring for them - not for anyone else. That's their call. Plus, it's all about money at the end of the day. If you want more raids, they have to be paid for. Raiders have nothing much to spend on at the moment now do they? They have all the top gear and the maximum number of essences they need, and no new raids to play yet. I don't know why they didn't put upgraded raid bling at the flora guys, IMO, they should have, and I wish they had, but it could be because most raiders will only require reclaim scrolls to upgrade. They will not need to buy more solvents, to make more essences. They don't need new essences, because they are already essenced up to the hilt. Turbine are now reaping in the cash from the more casual players, because for them to upgrade, they need to buy solvents and hopefully Turbine will use that generated revenue to develop more of the raids that you enjoy. The alternative is to make it so no players need more solvents, to make more essences, because they have no new gear to put them into. That there doesn't pay the development bill.

How did this even make it to live? Who in their right mind would make a raid with best in slot gear to have it obsolete in 4 months due to picking flowers? Lol this is a MASSIVE slap in the face for raiders, this is actually unheard of in ANY MMO in history.

Why couldn't it just be like the supreme upgrade and we upgrade the T2 jewelry? Landscape questers don't need a buff lol most people can do the landscape quests blindfolded there is no challenge at all but that is another issue in itself.

I propose that the jewelry stats be changed to the equivalent of T1 jewelry even those who have already acquired it.

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Originally Posted by CornWollis

How did this even make it to live? Who in their right mind would make a raid with best in slot gear to have it obsolete in 4 months due to picking flowers? Lol this is a MASSIVE slap in the face for raiders, this is actually unheard of in ANY MMO in history.

Why couldn't it just be like the supreme upgrade and we upgrade the T2 jewelry? Landscape questers don't need a buff lol most people can do the landscape quests blindfolded there is no challenge at all but that is another issue in itself.

I propose that the jewelry stats be changed to the equivalent of T1 jewelry even those who have already acquired it.

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I propose that they give raiders upgraded bling at the flora barter. Raider bling, back on top again - sorted.

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Originally Posted by CornWollis

How did this even make it to live? Who in their right mind would make a raid with best in slot gear to have it obsolete in 4 months due to picking flowers? Lol this is a MASSIVE slap in the face for raiders, this is actually unheard of in ANY MMO in history.

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This.

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Originally Posted by CornWollis

How did this even make it to live? Who in their right mind would make a raid with best in slot gear to have it obsolete in 4 months due to picking flowers? Lol this is a MASSIVE slap in the face for raiders, this is actually unheard of in ANY MMO in history.

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This

Like many among us, I don't understand how casuals can get better jewelery than the T2 throne raiders.

We see gold jewels (but why only bracelets ??!!) on bullroaer, they can replace the flower's jewels for raiders but with better stats.

Please, give raiders better stuff to reward them for the time and effort spent on the raid.

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Originally Posted by Epinera

Like many among us, I don't understand how casuals can get better jewelery than the T2 throne raiders.

We see gold jewels (but why only bracelets ??!!) on bullroaer, they can replace the flower's jewels for raiders but with better stats.

Please, give raiders better stuff to reward them for the time and effort spent on the raid.

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I support that idea. I fully understand why the flora jewels are there. People just have to do the math to get it.

Current raider, already has 3 slot jewels and 4 slot armour from the raid, all level 105. Most casual players have 2 slot armour and 2 slot jewels from FI, at level 105, and strict soloers have 3/4 piece level 100 armour and crafted 3 slot level 100 jewels.

Current raider, if they add new bling, needs reclaimation scrolls.
Casual, needs 2 x 12 solvents to make 2 x 6 essences to upgrade from 2 slot FI to 4 slot flower armour, and 14 solvents to make 1 x 7 new essences to upgrade to flower jewels.
Sololist, holy hell, way too many solvents needed to upgrade a whole set of both level 105 sets, so most probably won't, as they don't need it, but the cash will flow in from those that decide to run with it just because they can.

There it is, and makes plenty of sense. It's where the money is. Though I don't understand why they didn't give upgrades to the raiders too, even if they can't make money off it, to save all this heartache. They need something to do too.

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Originally Posted by BotLike

This was a step towards the wrong direction... The jewellery are not even hard to acquire. Armor is harder.

It's not that i'll even bother acquiring them , since the difference is minimal , but seriously , thats a first in a MMO world.
~30 minutes of flower picking is more rewarding that t2 raid rewards...

To whoever came up with this : you have no clue and stop making such calls imo.

PS. You could have added those jewellery as an upgrade to t1 raid jewellery ( including the flower cost ) and i wouldn't mind it one bit.
At least someone would have to step his foot in the raid to get them.

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Originally Posted by CornWollis

How did this even make it to live? Who in their right mind would make a raid with best in slot gear to have it obsolete in 4 months due to picking flowers? Lol this is a MASSIVE slap in the face for raiders, this is actually unheard of in ANY MMO in history.

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and thats how lotro and turbine became (in)famous... there is completly no logic this time, as said by many in this thread


p.s. as usual - comparing soloers to raiders... in mmo, is bad joke (the argument why u should satisfy cooperative gang same as single lanscape heroes) - its still pretty clear from game type - MMO (maybe google it), indeed group approach should be more rewarding - otherwise why dont play single player game? this logic is making lot of casual dmg here and its like DOT

As a casual, I appreciate the availability of better gear, similar or equal to Raid T2C gear.

However.

Without knowing for sure, I assume that getting the best gear via a T2C Raid, be that 10 or 20 consecutive Raids, may be a faster and more satisfying way to get said gear, than spending day after day picking flowers? I know some claim they got a full set in 8-10 hours of picking or something like that, but seriously, I can't focus on doing such a boring thing for that amount of time.

So the casuals get a slow and tedious way the get the best gear, and the Raiders get a fast and exciting way to get it. At least that would seem to be the best solution. The gear should of course be equal in every way.

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Originally Posted by siipperi

Just here to show my support to the fellow community that is getting discriminated once more.

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For starters, look up the definition of a word before you try to use it in an online forum about an MMO. Please.

Second, this forum--much like some of the people who post here (like siipperi)--have become a joke. A parody of themselves.
You can't be content with the fact that Turbine is only going to produce a new raid once every year or two (if you're lucky) and then get upset that they have better gear drop in cheap-to-produce solo content.

You can't say that Turbine doesn't have a gear progression problem and then play the "raider victim card" a few days later.

What did you think would happen? That your BiS raid gear would stay BiS until the next raid came out...over a year later (regardless if there was a level cap increase or not)??

They say beggars can't be choosers. I say you have the game you deserve. You have no one to blame but yourself.

And oh look, it's Wednesday so lets bring in the old solo versus raider argument because...well, it's Wednesday so why not, right?

So stop acting surprised that Turbine doesn't learn from their mistakes and shut up and go pick some flowers!

:)

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Originally Posted by Marancil

As a casual, I appreciate the availability of better gear, similar or equal to Raid T2C gear.

However.

Without knowing for sure, I assume that getting the best gear via a T2C Raid, be that 10 or 20 consecutive Raids, may be a faster and more satisfying way to get said gear, than spending day after day picking flowers? I know some claim they got a full set in 8-10 hours of picking or something like that, but seriously, I can't focus on doing such a boring thing for that amount of time.

So the casuals get a slow and tedious way the get the best gear, and the Raiders get a fast and exciting way to get it. At least that would seem to be the best solution. The gear should of course be equal in every way.

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I've not completed Throne yet, but I have been in there. It's not fast, not by a long chalk, it's not easy either, its very tough. They work hard for their rewards in there, very hard indeed.

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Originally Posted by CornWollis

How did this even make it to live? Who in their right mind would make a raid with best in slot gear to have it obsolete in 4 months due to picking flowers? Lol this is a MASSIVE slap in the face for raiders, this is actually unheard of in ANY MMO in history.

Why couldn't it just be like the supreme upgrade and we upgrade the T2 jewelry? Landscape questers don't need a buff lol most people can do the landscape quests blindfolded there is no challenge at all but that is another issue in itself.

I propose that the jewelry stats be changed to the equivalent of T1 jewelry even those who have already acquired it.

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Raid gear has lost it's exclusive character already since it's getting sold by kinships.

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Originally Posted by Esterian

Raid gear has lost it's exclusive character already since it's getting sold by kinships.

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How does a kinship sell raiding gear?

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Originally Posted by Arnenna

How does a kinship sell raiding gear?

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https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...e-For-Purchase

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Originally Posted by Esterian

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...e-For-Purchase

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Oh dear. I've seen it all now.

Ofcourse, the raid gear, other than armour maybe, will not be the BiS forever or at least untill the next raid, we all know that. But this decline was too fast imo. It would only be good that Turbine and even fellow players could appreciate the effort that went into gearing and now they have the option of just walking to the better pieces than the ones in raid. If the better pieces will come, then they should be from the epic quest like the gold cloak, 3man, 6man... anything but flowers. Flowers can be a decent option for upgrades of the gear, but this is just demeaning in so many ways and just repeating the same story that happened with hilt and for some people can be a cause for canceling the VIP.

You may argue that landscapers are a larger population, but I could eventually argue that raiders and more serious players alike are creating more revenue by buying all the stat tomes, solvents, etc. If they are eventually not spending the TP they are creating the market for someone to earn gold they need and still are the reason for that TP revolving.

And yes, selling the gear does depreciate it's exclusivity somewhat, which doesn't mean that is the reason it needs to be below landscape.

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Originally Posted by Gandalphor

Ofcourse, the raid gear, other than armour maybe, will not be the BiS forever or at least untill the next raid, we all know that. But this decline was too fast imo. It would only be good that Turbine and even fellow players could appreciate the effort that went into gearing and now they have the option of just walking to the better pieces than the ones in raid. If the better pieces will come, then they should be from the epic quest like the gold cloak, 3man, 6man... anything but flowers. Flowers can be a decent option for upgrades of the gear, but this is just demeaning in so many ways and just repeating the same story that happened with hilt and for some people can be a cause for canceling the VIP.

You may argue that landscapers are a larger population, but I could eventually argue that raiders and more serious players alike are creating more revenue by buying all the stat tomes, solvents, etc. If they are eventually not spending the TP they are creating the market for someone to earn gold they need and still are the reason for that TP revolving.

And yes, selling the gear does depreciate it's exclusivity somewhat, which doesn't mean that is the reason it needs to be below landscape.

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Ok, what's up wth the hilt? People are going on about it and I haven't got a clue what they're talking about, other than what lots of people mentioned about it dropping at level 75 (don't know if that's true or not).

You know, its not only raiders that can cancel VIP right? Solo players (I mean strictly solo, not groupers at all), have been grinding the same old level 100 content since forever (since the launch of Gondor), and it's only now, in Ithilien, that they can get level 105 gear of any sort, even though they've been level 105 for a long while. It's a good job they all didn't unsub is all I can say, given that they very likely are the larger population as you put it. I know lots of solo players that max out their stat tomes, it's not just raiders. Now with new four slot armour and 3 slot bling at level 105 - they are going to be blasting Turbines solvent sales through the roof, on masse, to upgrade their gear. Your argument falls down there and if indeed they are not the type to spend money on things like solvents, then this new jewelry shouldn't be the threat that everyone is making it out to be, as soloists won't go for it because they don't spend money right? Turbine really have their heads on straight with this - this is where the money is right now. Raiders have already bought their stat tomes (right?) and they already have all their essences, so they won''t be buying new solvents right now. So who is? That's right, it's that crowd that you say doesn't spend money. They'll spend it, if they have something to spend it on, just like raiders do. They just haven't had reason to spend since DA.