Since when are 1v1s considered "Rank Farming"?

Also a counter suggestion:

Rank farming is only as much of an exploit as buying skills/using a valar/farming WP is, however these are considered fine.

That isn't me saying I agree with rank farming though ^^


A far better idea than a ban policy would be to start moors characters out on a 0 rating and to give diminishing returns on repeated kills of the same characters.

1vs1 players wouldn't care about that, because it is about the fun rather than the infamy/reknown.

Cordovan you were entirely clear. Some people just like drama and argument - nothing you can do about that.

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Originally Posted by Cordovan

That is the opposite of what I said. What I said was that Rank Farming is Rank Farming regardless of source. 1v1 as something to do is not explicitly rank farming, but if you are rank farming during 1v1 play, you don't get a free pass just because you are in a 1v1 environment.

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and how exactly would you discern a legitimate loss in a 1v1 and "intentionally surrendering a character"

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Originally Posted by Cordovan

That is the opposite of what I said. What I said was that Rank Farming is Rank Farming regardless of source. 1v1 as something to do is not explicitly rank farming, but if you are rank farming during 1v1 play, you don't get a free pass just because you are in a 1v1 environment.

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What I think one issue here is the terminology of “intentional surrender” is incredibly vague and would require proof of intention in the framework of a 1v1. If there is combat between two players and defensive skills and offensive skills are used against one another there is no way to prove intention of surrender. This is the real heart of the issue cordovan. For a GM to witness a fight that is a 1v1 and interpret it as “rank farming” there would have to be clear evidence of intent, I don’t see that as possible without knowing the specifics of this incident (which neither of us are privy to at the moment).

Seriously?!?!?!?! This is ludicrous to the point of being surreal! Banned for playing by the rules as laid out by a previous CM. Yeah, sure, makes perfect sense! I mean, I see R15s rank farming everyday. No wonder everyone always runs around in big zergs......probably scared they'll get banned if running solo.

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Originally Posted by istvana

Cordovan you were entirely clear. Some people just like drama and argument - nothing you can do about that.

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No, he wasn't. He's been backpaddling on his responses.

All the players that were involved were high ranked and have played for many years, many of them I've known and fought on my freep/creep classes as well multiple times. This community has banded around fair play and we all know each other rather well and how we play.
None of us care about infamy/renown gained from these fights, we were in it for the fun.

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Originally Posted by Cordovan

Just to be clear: I did not "determine it was rank farming". I was (I thought) pretty clear about it, that I did not know nor was explicitly commenting on the particulars of an individual appeal or incident.

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Seemed pretty clear-cut by the wording that you were certain it was.

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Originally Posted by Agollas

Also a counter suggestion:

Rank farming is only as much of an exploit as buying skills/using a valar/farming WP is, however these are considered fine.

That isn't me saying I agree with rank farming though ^^


A far better idea than a ban policy would be to start moors characters out on a 0 rating and to give diminishing returns on repeated kills of the same characters.

1vs1 players wouldn't care about that, because it is about the fun rather than the infamy/reknown.

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That's how the system works already, you get diminishing returns for killing those same players as their score falls. So to call it farming when you get hardly any points for the kill is laughable. Meanwhile there's folks in plain sight farming in Osgiliath, and others using exploit spots in Grothum with no action being taken against them when gms are given proof...

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Originally Posted by maartena

Reality check:

They don't have to give you proof.
You don't own your characters. They do.
They can remove you from their service at any time, for any reason they feel.
You aren't entitled to an explanation.
Bans are virtually always final.

Sounds harsh, but it is the cold hard truth.... just about all you can do at this point is just make a new account, and start over.

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I mean you're not wrong, it is all there in the agreement, but if anyone goes around thinking that this is a good thing they are sorely misguided.

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Originally Posted by istvana

Cordovan you were entirely clear. Some people just like drama and argument - nothing you can do about that.

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You except these types of threads not to contain any drama lmao. The thread shouldn0't have existed at all

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Originally Posted by Moorsfighter

What I think one issue here is the terminology of “intentional surrender” is incredibly vague and would require proof of intention in the framework of a 1v1. If there is combat between two players and defensive skills and offensive skills are used against one another there is no way to prove intention of surrender. This is the real heart of the issue cordovan. For a GM to witness a fight that is a 1v1 and interpret it as “rank farming” there would have to be clear evidence of intent, I don’t see that as possible without knowing the specifics of this incident (which neither of us are privy to at the moment).

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they have evidence and they don't need to justify their actions too you, Marteena's post was accurate, gm can be there invisible you never know , there is a way to determine if both players farmed it was prboably done multiple times , imagine if freep come sto creep 10 times , creeps is pressing 2 skills alwaays runs around uses auto attack and freep uses every skill, yea its hardcore dueling its one of examples, sometimes its opposite

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Originally Posted by Caanjaal

Seriously?!?!?!?! This is ludicrous to the point of being surreal! Banned for playing by the rules as laid out by a previous CM. Yeah, sure, makes perfect sense! I mean, I see R15s rank farming everyday. No wonder everyone always runs around in big zergs......probably scared they'll get banned if running solo.

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LMAO what rules added, you people really are incredible , its so hard to admit and read Cordovans post,1v1 does not give you excuse , it can happen during 1v1 as well

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Originally Posted by zaboch

No, he wasn't. He's been backpaddling on his responses.

All the players that were involved were high ranked and have played for many years, many of them I've known and fought on my freep/creep classes as well multiple times. This community has banded around fair play and we all know each other rather well and how we play.
None of us care about infamy/renown gained from these fights, we were in it for the fun.

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yea you mean most of the these high ranking players who already rank farmed before rank farming was made offiical? what you know might not be the true , oh yea sure you know each other extremely well

cmon stop with lies

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Originally Posted by Ringil

cmon stop with lies

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Who hurt you? Who banned your main I wonder...

Anyway, no more responses to you.

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Originally Posted by Saruman_Of_Numbers

and how exactly would you discern a legitimate loss in a 1v1 and "intentionally surrendering a character"

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Well, based on some of the incidents I've seen:

- Two people talking in world chat about how they are rank farming, and then looking for more people to rank farm with them.
- One person standing there doing nothing over and over while the other person kills them.
- People advertising 1v1 rank farming on various discords and forums.
- Known frequent rank farmers engaging in especially suspicious activity that looks to be very much like 1v1 rank farming.
- People sending tells to others asking them to 1v1 rank farm with them, and the person getting the tells reporting it to GMs.

Again, this is not about a specific incident. However, to just blanket exclude a form of PvP that can clearly be used in a way that circumvents the Terms of Service and Code of Conduct due to a limited reading of something a CM said years ago seems questionable. As with most in-game disciplinary concerns, it comes down to intent rather than formal rules lawyering.

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Originally Posted by Cordovan

That is the opposite of what I said. What I said was that Rank Farming is Rank Farming regardless of source. 1v1 as something to do is not explicitly rank farming, but if you are rank farming during 1v1 play, you don't get a free pass just because you are in a 1v1 environment.

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From the looks of this then, the safest thing to do is screen record every time you 1vs1. That way all of the drama on the forums can be avoided.

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Originally Posted by Agollas

From the looks of this then, the safest thing to do is screen record every time you 1vs1. That way all of the drama on the forums can be avoided.

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Nvidea shadowplay is P2 stay safe from now on

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Originally Posted by Cordovan

Well, based on some of the incidents I've seen:

- Two people talking in world chat about how they are rank farming, and then looking for more people to rank farm with them.

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...

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Originally Posted by Cordovan

- One person standing there doing nothing over and over while the other person kills them.

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Yeah, that's the most common way, multiboxed accounts are the main root of this possibility.

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Originally Posted by Cordovan

- People advertising 1v1 rank farming on various discords and forums.

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And yet, I'm yet to see anyone actually post about this and I'm part of the majority of Arkenstone and Gladden discords.

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Originally Posted by Cordovan

- Known frequent rank farmers engaging in especially suspicious activity that looks to be very much like 1v1 rank farming.

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How are they given the chance to make this offence again if they are known AND frequent? Why not just ban the account permanently and get rid of them.
Guess the money's too good?

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Originally Posted by Cordovan

- People sending tells to others asking them to 1v1 rank farm with them, and the person getting the tells reporting it to GMs.

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And yet, I've never seen or heard of this type of an incident.

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Originally Posted by Cordovan

Again, this is not about a specific incident.

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Yes, this is.

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Originally Posted by Cordovan

However, to just blanket exclude a form of PvP that can clearly be used in a way that circumvents the Terms of Service and Code of Conduct due to a limited reading of something a CM said years ago seems questionable. As with most in-game disciplinary concerns, it comes down to intent rather than formal rules lawyering.

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You know what else can circumvent TOS and COC?
Actual rank farming. Healtagging. AFKing in a raid at a safe spot while the raid engages in actual PVP to gain renown.
All of these examples hold a much stronger case than any that you've just mentioned.

Parking a toon at a 1v1 area that's then in fellowship with the actual farmer falls under "AFKing in a raid" part of my response that I've mentioned, it's a fairly similar principle, just directly violating it.

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Originally Posted by Zaheer

Nvidea shadowplay is P2 stay safe from now on

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if on windows 10, you can use windows key+G and it is already built in :)

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Originally Posted by Cordovan

Well, based on some of the incidents I've seen:

- Two people talking in world chat about how they are rank farming, and then looking for more people to rank farm with them.
- One person standing there doing nothing over and over while the other person kills them.
- People advertising 1v1 rank farming on various discords and forums.
- Known frequent rank farmers engaging in especially suspicious activity that looks to be very much like 1v1 rank farming.
- People sending tells to others asking them to 1v1 rank farm with them, and the person getting the tells reporting it to GMs.

Again, this is not about a specific incident. However, to just blanket exclude a form of PvP that can clearly be used in a way that circumvents the Terms of Service and Code of Conduct due to a limited reading of something a CM said years ago seems questionable. As with most in-game disciplinary concerns, it comes down to intent rather than formal rules lawyering.

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Stop, you don't know anything about pvmp please just stop posting on this subject and pass this thread on to the GM staff.
Please you are just embarrassing yourself with every message you send

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Originally Posted by Cordovan

That is the opposite of what I said. What I said was that Rank Farming is Rank Farming regardless of source. 1v1 as something to do is not explicitly rank farming, but if you are rank farming during 1v1 play, you don't get a free pass just because you are in a 1v1 environment.

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Aside from defining what is and isn't rank farming, one question is important here in this case.

If the area known as Good Grim had a diameter circle of 100 meters, wherein no point gains could occur, would those players in question here, go there to 1v1?


I can say with some certainty they would still go their to 1v1.




Take away the motivating premise that defines rank farming and there is no way it can be considered as such. It's time to give the players a place to 1v1 where no points can be gained. GG is as good as a place as any.


SSG let it be so.

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Originally Posted by Cordovan

Well, based on some of the incidents I've seen:

- Two people talking in world chat about how they are rank farming, and then looking for more people to rank farm with them.
- One person standing there doing nothing over and over while the other person kills them.
- People advertising 1v1 rank farming on various discords and forums.
- Known frequent rank farmers engaging in especially suspicious activity that looks to be very much like 1v1 rank farming.
- People sending tells to others asking them to 1v1 rank farm with them, and the person getting the tells reporting it to GMs.

Again, this is not about a specific incident. However, to just blanket exclude a form of PvP that can clearly be used in a way that circumvents the Terms of Service and Code of Conduct due to a limited reading of something a CM said years ago seems questionable. As with most in-game disciplinary concerns, it comes down to intent rather than formal rules lawyering.

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You are purposefully and willfully conflating two very different terms in order to gain a defense to a previous statement. People advertise a location for fellow solo characters to find each other. Two solo characters fight and use offensive and defensive skills to try and kill each other. One or both characters may die.

None of the situations you have laid out are in reference to the events we are discussing and do not have relevance. As a member of said Arkenstone discord I can assure you I have never once seen anyone with intent to surrender.

To further the point, how can someone who has no rank to gain (being a R15 already) possibly farm rank? How can they gain renown to advance their player by rankfarming.

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Originally Posted by Cordovan

- One person standing there doing nothing over and over while the other person kills them.

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and how would one discern this from a very common occurrence in the current moors: Burglars 1-shot-killing creeps from stealth, with the creep being unable to react because they die instantly?

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Originally Posted by buzo

Stop, you don't know anything about pvmp please just stop posting on this subject and pass this thread on to the GM staff.
Please you are just embarrassing yourself with every message you send

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lmao NO! his answer was intelliegent and logical reply these posts are valid you really think you can argue and convince community manager? ha ha.

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Originally Posted by sapienze

Aside from defining what is and isn't rank farming, one question is important here in this case.

If the area known as Good Grim had a diameter circle of 100 meters, wherein no point gains could occur, would those players in question here, go there to 1v1?


I can say with some certainty they would still go their to 1v1.




Take away the motivating premise that defines rank farming and there is no way it can be considered as such. It's time to give the players a place to 1v1 where no points can be gained. GG is as good as a place as any.


SSG let it be so.

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you wont get anything 1v1 area never existed and never will be official only in your dreams. yea lets draw a sign too in circle of 100 meters , maybe you want to memorise bush and don't cross it. cannot wait when more folks get punished.

everything said by Cord is true and you cannot defend it , 1v1 is mostly club zone and some players literally ranked by doing arranged 1v1s it will now come to end.. bye bye farmers

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Originally Posted by buzo

Stop, you don't know anything about pvmp please just stop posting on this subject and pass this thread on to the GM staff.
Please you are just embarrassing yourself with every message you send

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Well that's definitely a way to smooth things over.


I agree with mostly everyone on here, but I think you are being too harsh to cord.

He's probably writing these replies quickly at the end of a long day with the expansion release etc.


If I might rephrase your question:

Thank you for taking an interest in PvMP, would appreciate it if you could pass the information from the thread on to the relevant GMs so they can take another look at the ticket!

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Originally Posted by Cordovan

Well, based on some of the incidents I've seen:

- Two people talking in world chat about how they are rank farming, and then looking for more people to rank farm with them.
- One person standing there doing nothing over and over while the other person kills them.
- People advertising 1v1 rank farming on various discords and forums.
- Known frequent rank farmers engaging in especially suspicious activity that looks to be very much like 1v1 rank farming.
- People sending tells to others asking them to 1v1 rank farm with them, and the person getting the tells reporting it to GMs.

Again, this is not about a specific incident. However, to just blanket exclude a form of PvP that can clearly be used in a way that circumvents the Terms of Service and Code of Conduct due to a limited reading of something a CM said years ago seems questionable. As with most in-game disciplinary concerns, it comes down to intent rather than formal rules lawyering.

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well this was kinda funny to read not gonna lie :D . this happens when you don't play your own game so you don't know what is the difference between 1vs1ing and an actual rank farming.

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Originally Posted by Cordovan

Well, based on some of the incidents I've seen:

- Two people talking in world chat about how they are rank farming, and then looking for more people to rank farm with them.
- One person standing there doing nothing over and over while the other person kills them.
- People advertising 1v1 rank farming on various discords and forums.
- Known frequent rank farmers engaging in especially suspicious activity that looks to be very much like 1v1 rank farming.
- People sending tells to others asking them to 1v1 rank farm with them, and the person getting the tells reporting it to GMs.

Again, this is not about a specific incident. However, to just blanket exclude a form of PvP that can clearly be used in a way that circumvents the Terms of Service and Code of Conduct due to a limited reading of something a CM said years ago seems questionable. As with most in-game disciplinary concerns, it comes down to intent rather than formal rules lawyering.

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Originally Posted by Cordovan

1v1's are considered rank farming when the people involved are rank farming. I do not know the particulars of this disciplinary action, nor is that something I can really get involved in. If you need to file an appeal, please do so through help.standingstonegames.com.

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Were those incidents specific to these? Because you stated you didn't know the particulars, and couldn't get involved. The attempts to cover for the GMs who obviously messed up is pretty hilarious. Most game companies would admit the fault and do their best to help those affected, not double down with "yeah there's been cheaters who openly admitted to cheating in world chat so they could get caught." Which in of itself makes no sense, rank farmers don't ask people to let them farm, they build a freever train and do it on their own.

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Originally Posted by Zaheer

Nvidea shadowplay is P2 stay safe from now on

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This might make me stream PvMP. So I can show that I'm just getting 1-shotted every now and then and not letting someone rank farm me... :Thinking:

Mulatic
R14 Reaver
Arkenstone

I really appreciate Cordovan's reply to this, but I believe we need to acknowledge that he did not address (probably because he can't, not even sure if he has access to the information about that) the cases mentioned in the original post. He just laid out the rules, which clearly say that 1v1ing is fine as long as the outcome is not fixed.

That relates to the cases mentioned in the original post since, as has been already mentioned by a few well respected players who I have no reason to distrust, the people who were banned were engaging in normal 1v1s without fixed outcome. Therefore, it is likely that there has been an error at the GM's side, and I sincerely hope that this decision gets reverted and that some system that would prevent similar situations from happening in the future gets employed.

Speaking about that, what Cordovan said is in direct opposition to what you have been blabbering about, Ringil, so can you please stop twisting what he said? 1v1 fights are considered fine as long as both players actively try to kill each other.

I hope any GM that has to review any accusation against me correctly realises that I'm not intentionally losing, I'm just bad :)