20 Questions – Big Battles

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Originally Posted by djheydt

Depends on how closely Turbine sticks to the Lore in this case ... having already departed from it in allowing non-Rohirrim to participate (I understand the reasoning behind it, even though I don't like it), there will be no siege engines on the Rohirric side and I don't think the Orcs brought up any either, just lots and lots of Orcs and Uruk-hai and Dunlendings.

Unless you want to describe the Huorns as siege engines for Team Gandalf. :)

Meanwhile, in the interest of the Lore, I have shelled out some of my hard-earned TP and bought a new character slot; my Rohir just reached level 12. We'll see how far she gets by launch.

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I mean we don't know if there werent Gondorians or Dalemen who were transplants to Rohan at Helms deep. There easily could have been.

Still Elves Hobbits and Dwarves wouldnt be at Helms Deep...

Of course it would be funny if the NPCs kept getting confused and calling all Elves Legolas (Claiming that all Elves look Female), or calling all Dwarves Gimli (Hey short and Bearded).

It could technically solve the matter as to why no other Elves and Dwarves were mentioned.

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Originally Posted by Hall0Wx

Still don't know why it'd be so hard to create a 1-boss lair raid to satisfy those of us who've been playing the game awhile and enjoy the old ways.

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Because Turbine has a limited amount of time between release deadlines, a limited number of employees, and a very limited amount of money.

We've had skirmishes and instances and raids oh my in previous expansions/releases/etc. We'll have them again in future. This fall we're getting the Battle of the Hornburg.

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Originally Posted by PKCrichton

It has already been stated further up by JWBerry that upscaled characters won't get the skills/traits they haven't earned yet. There will be scaling involved but we haven't been told what that will be aka if the skills they have will be stronger, have shorter cds or what.

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I expect that, for instance, my currently-level-12 LM will still have about five attack skills, Burning Embers et al. But those skills will be scaled to be more powerful, till instead of igniting an ordinary pine cone and throwing it at the foe, she will be igniting a pine cone with the flammability of a Volkswagen-load of C4 and taking out four Uruk-hai, six Dunlendings, one troll, and everything beneath them all the way down the scaling ladder. It should be ... interesting.

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Originally Posted by zalladi

So would that suggest that there is a chance that other Big Battles, such as Pelennor Fields, could have large open-space battles?

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I'm going to guess not, on purely real-world grounds. The more player characters and the more mobs you have in a given area, the more lag you're going to get. The Turbine engine does balance server load, to the extent it can; but if you have hundreds or even dozens of each in an area the size of a couple of landblocks, the action is going to grind to a halt. Those who played the SoA beta and participated in the Battle of the Trestlebridge will remember what I'm talking about; frame rate was measured not in frames per second but in seconds per frame. You'd fire off a skill and maybe three seconds later you'd get a notice that it hit. Or missed. This is no way to run a battle; but then we weren't trying to run a battle and neither was Turbine: they were trying to see how many [N]PCs they could cram into one landblock before the server crashed. And presently all over North America our screens went blank, and the cheers rose up: "We broke the server! We broke the server!" because that's what we were supposed to do.

But you don't want something like that in live.

Even if WB were willing to fund enough new hardware for Turbine to handle a heavily-populated battle covering multiple landblocks (and I bet they aren't) on the server side, we'd still all have a problem rendering it all on the client side; we ourselves would have to shell out for new hardware beyond the reach of most of us. I dunno, maybe Sapience would be able to handle such a battle on his spiffy home computer (which he's described elsewhere); maybe I would even be able to handle it on mine (about one notch less spiffy than Sapience's, or so my husband tells me). But what about everybody else? They would be unable to play those battles; possibly they would be unable to play the game at all.

The techniques Turbine developed for the Battles of the Isen and for Wulf's Cleft got around this hard- and software problem by surrounding one or a few of us players and a few friendly NPCs with a select number of fighting mobs and the images of hundreds of others, just hanging around fighting each other. It made for an authentic-looking battle scene. I don't think we can get a much larger scale in LotRO, though I'm looking forward to finding out what's in store for us at the Hornburg.

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Originally Posted by djheydt

frame rate was measured not in frames per second but in seconds per frame. You'd fire off a skill and maybe three seconds later you'd get a notice that it hit. Or missed. This is no way to run a battle

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Sounds like the Moors on most days.

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Originally Posted by Damojo

Will these medal thingummies be BoA or account bound? Just wondering if we'll see a horde of sacrificial lvl 10 accounts created just to spam medals for the "main" characters, should locks/timers be introduced.

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More importantly are the things you barter for with the coins BOA or bound at all? Will you be able to trade, sell, give these items?

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Originally Posted by djheydt

I expect that, for instance, my currently-level-12 LM will still have about five attack skills, Burning Embers et al. But those skills will be scaled to be more powerful, till instead of igniting an ordinary pine cone and throwing it at the foe, she will be igniting a pine cone with the flammability of a Volkswagen-load of C4 and taking out four Uruk-hai, six Dunlendings, one troll, and everything beneath them all the way down the scaling ladder. It should be ... interesting.

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AWESOME imagery - I'm looking forward to seeing that happen :)

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Originally Posted by djheydt

And presently all over North America our screens went blank, and the cheers rose up: "We broke the server! We broke the server!" because that's what we were supposed to do.

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THIS is even better :D

Really looking forward fo HD now! Big battles seems very nice, I hope it will be epic!

just dont screw the classes! but it is another topic :P

Not sure if this has been talked about. If at all possible, if not planned, then in an update out as quickly as possible after HD release, I really recommend having a down-leveling system added so we can, for example, run an instance when it was supposed to be run (therefore in its original, unchanged form). Most instances weren't very buggy until they scaled, when many became too easy as well. As for loot, I would like to have scaling loot, because it should mean that every scaled version is equally as hard, but it isn't. So if they aren't equalled out proportionally, then I suppose I know know how to deal with loot other than only giving original, content level loot. Basically, you would have 2 options, run at —— level, like now, or run at —(scalable or just original)— level and then all players will be down scaled to be in it on-level. I don't know if it would be a good idea to have the first option and then a up and down scale version, like big battles, where no matter the level, joining will scale you up or down to fit the original level, but that could work too. This would hopefully let us work together as a community and let everyone participate in everything if you, as a player, personally wanted to do that. However, I recommend for most instances, possibly even Big Battles, requiring you to have gotten to it before on-level, so you don't just jump in as a new player fighting Saruman for example. I understand why Big Battles shouldn't restrict it to people only who have gotten to Rohan, but for every other thing, they might want to add some limitations.

I assumed it was only for the buyers but just double checking.

Thanks

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Originally Posted by NE12Patriots

I assumed it was only for the buyers but just double checking.

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If it's a part of the epic chain then F2P and Premium players will have access to it. Or at least by the time they're that far in the chain, even if not at level 10. I suspect it may be like skirmishes where you have limited access at the start without being VIP or purchasing more.

Thank you, just the answer I was looking for :) If it is a part of the Epic Chain, I can't wait to get my mini in there!

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Originally Posted by Menathradon

I'm assuming lvl 10s will be allowed more points to spend on their SKILL TREES. Remember that folks? SKILL TREES.

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Hate to burst your bubble here, but they are TRAIT TREES, not skill trees ;). Skills and Traits are two different things.

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Originally Posted by Eartholloth

All hell is gonna break loose now. Might go into hiding for awhile. LOL

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Already prepared. I built a bomb-shelter under my elf house months ago!

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Originally Posted by Widoch

I would assume it isn't going to be quest locked but like a lot of the instances unlocked once you're at the correct level which in this case is 10.

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The upscaling idea was one of my favorite aspects of City of Heroes teaming. I took a short break from the game but will definitely have to come back to see helms deep. I REALLY love the 20 questions thing.

I say that every time, but is truth.
-Poppinpip (destroyer of shrews)

Helm's Deep won't include any progression style content? Is that at launch or ever again? I have played this game since launch, and if they get rid of dedicated group content... then I suppose maybe this is it.

Scaling level 10s doesn't bother me, but no raids for Helm's Deep?

And don't sell me the BS that there is no way to do it within the story or lore, have you seen Rune Keeper's shooting lightning like Sith Lords?

When i read these 20 questions i was on vacations and want able to reply properly.So here i am :)

Its the first time for me since this feature(20 questions) start that i was excited once i read it. And it was the first time to be excited after Beta invitation on Rohan. So that was a long time!! So that from itself was some extra fun :)

About Big battles i see Turbine turn a new page. Big battles from what i understand wont be ,get in, kill the dude, take the loot. Its about re-living the great moments, stand together and alone on this huge battlefield and sometimes take tusks which your team will depend on you to accomplish. At some point dont remember when i start a thread about a new feature that could be on this game and it was about siege and dynamic battles. So i am happy to see that some of my wishes will come true.

Of course nothing can be judged just from hearing, we have to see it happening first.

I have only 1 worry and only 1 opinion that doesnt stand well with these 20 questions. My worry is that since i am one of the guys that has crash problems, how much worse will it be with this mass feature;
And the thing that i don't agree is upscaling. Havent seen how it can really work and honestly since the classes are changing we dont know how a level 10 character will feel or what skill will have, but i can see that happening as something people will either avoid or exploit. So thats for now waiting for more info.

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Originally Posted by Yulin-Gladden

Does the work on "Big Battles" mean that there will not be any additional older instances that will be scaled with HD? i.e. Moria, or GA?

Assuming that the answer above is yes, is there any thought to doing the reverse of upscalling for said instances? i.e. letting a 85/95 "downscale" to run the Moria instances at level?

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After reading many of the posts on 'upscaling' lower levels I really would like to come back to Yulin-Gladden idea of turning it around into a downscale.

Don't we all experience the situtation when a levelling kin asks for help and we jump in on our over-levelled characters, save the day but lack the satisfaction of a real challenge.

Downscaling would provide a mechanism where experienced players can help through-out their kin and teach new players, it would also solve the problem of finding enough people for instances (as every higher-level player would become a potential candidate), and it would also revitalise the lower-level end-game content (just imagine going back to Carn Dum and having a real fight again ... ). Downscaling could even be applied on landscape while you travel (as an optional feature)

I never saw Yulin's question really answered, have the Dev's thought about such a 'downscale' mechanism ?

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Originally Posted by Tachyontorge

I never saw Yulin's question really answered, have the Dev's thought about such a 'downscale' mechanism ?

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I doubt it will be part of HD, simply because they'll want to see the results and feedback of the Upscaling in Big Battles first. I wouldn't be surprised if they implemented character scaling (in either direction) in a later update though.

./reply Sapience(i don't know why we can't quote GMs...

The way you say it, which is almost entirely wrong by the way, it doesn't sound so great. The truth of it is very different (thus why we're answering real questions in the actual thread).

And just to add a touch more clarification, the instance cluster concept is what I was referring to (which I think you understood based on your comments). Instances will exist obviously as Big Battles are themselves instanced.

So, back to the thread where you can ask questions and get answers with info.

Q10: Will Helm’s Deep also feature traditional boss progression style group content?

No. Helm’s Deep instance content is being represented fully with the Big Battles system.

/unquote


So Sapience, which one is it, you reply to someone saying their will be other instances besides big battles, but in your 20 questions you say their will be no traditional instance period.
Please just tell us straight up will there be traditional raids or not? no extra stuff, just give us a straight yes or no if you reply to this post. That's all I want, a yes or no, no explanation, will there be any traditional raids for the entire HD expansion?

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Originally Posted by crl13107

So Sapience, which one is it, you reply to someone saying their will be other instances besides big battles, but in your 20 questions you say their will be no traditional instance period.
Please just tell us straight up will there be traditional raids or not? no extra stuff, just give us a straight yes or no if you reply to this post. That's all I want, a yes or no, no explanation, will there be any traditional raids for the entire HD expansion?

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I can't grasp what is so difficult to understand about what has been said.

For Helms Deep there will be no classical instances, just Big Battles.
That does not mean that Turbine will stop creating regular instances. It only means that HD won't come with any, as that place is taken by Big Battles.

The statement that "Helm’s Deep instance content is being represented fully with the Big Battles system." means just that: No classical instances for Helms Deep. Helms Deep isn't the entirety of LOTRO's future.

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Originally Posted by Tachyontorge

After reading many of the posts on 'upscaling' lower levels I really would like to come back to Yulin-Gladden idea of turning it around into a downscale.

Don't we all experience the situtation when a levelling kin asks for help and we jump in on our over-levelled characters, save the day but lack the satisfaction of a real challenge.

Downscaling would provide a mechanism where experienced players can help through-out their kin and teach new players, it would also solve the problem of finding enough people for instances (as every higher-level player would become a potential candidate), and it would also revitalise the lower-level end-game content (just imagine going back to Carn Dum and having a real fight again ... ). Downscaling could even be applied on landscape while you travel (as an optional feature)

I never saw Yulin's question really answered, have the Dev's thought about such a 'downscale' mechanism ?

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I think Turbine chose to upscale options instead of downscale because its easier. We already have an upscale mechanic aka inspiration buff in the epic quests. If they want to downscale they might need to investigate a whole new mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Taravith

It all depends on how you choose to look at it. I for one rejoice at the opportunity to expand my circle of interaction beyond the usual kinnies and occasionnal PUG buddies and maybe to help lowbies/newcomers along their journey (I found that lurking in starting areas going "HEY D'YA NEED HELP" at every poorly-equipped character comes accross as creepy).
Anything that encourages or at least allows for more capped/newbie interaction is welcome in my book.

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Wow, I couldn't agree with this more! If I have to deal with an elitist vs a newb the elitist will get the boot every time.

I already have issues running the game at anything but low res and when I actually use the auto-adjust, it lags my game up so badly that its not worth the better graphics. Is this going to be fixed or changed so that it auto-adjusts better? I rather have the performance and smoother going than snazzy graphics that wow when it takes me 2 minutes to go 10 feet.

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Originally Posted by Sapience

We’ve compiled 20 questions specifically related to a new feature coming with Helm’s Deep that we’re calling “Big Battles” (though that name may change).

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I got the perfect name idea to replace "Big Battles"...

"Sacred Contentions."

While it is neither sacred nor a contention, the name has a nice ring to it, no?