Tracking an Old Goat

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Originally Posted by SungXe

There is a sound and reasonable way,
"My Playstyle sorry three star excuse" way,
and the Turbine way.


If a Deed is designed to need quest text reading aware players, Tracking an Old Goat is flawlessly executed and Implemented.

That is all.

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Correction, this deed is horribly executed, implemented AND DESIGNED.
How many times do I have to say it?

There has NEVER BEEN A DEED that you CANNOT COMPLETE at ANY. GIVEN. TIME.
So! Care to enlighten me on where we freakin deviated from the NORMAL game development path?

Furthermore, the quest text DOES NOT STATE where all seven quests are. Reading the quest line DOES NOT GUARANTEE COMPLETION.
That in itself is flawed.
The design is stupid.
The implementation is a joke in both a real AND game sense.

This whole quest series is forevermore a scourge on the game for completionists, hardcores, and those who like to farm random nodes of ore.

There is no defense for this deed. There is no defense for this design. There is no defense for this concept.
It's all bad. Period, end of story.

Want proof to my claim? Check out the 14 page thread (and growing) that you're probably going to post in claiming I'm crazy, bitter, outraged, or all of the above.

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Originally Posted by customshopstrat

Headcount did get fixed a while back. Hope this also gets fixed.

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Awesome! It appears I am behind in my forum reading then. It's been an itch that my main has not being able to scratch since the start of SoM.

With that in mind; I have every confidence that Turbine will fix this Old Goat deed Soon™

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Originally Posted by TheCorbinator

There is no defense for this deed. There is no defense for this design. There is no defense for this concept.
It's all bad. Period, end of story.

Want proof to my claim? Check out the 14 page thread (and growing) that you're probably going to post in claiming I'm crazy, bitter, outraged, or all of the above.

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When I first saw the quest which would have cancelled the remaining quests/deed I paused, opened up the deed, added it to the tracker, completed the rest of the quests, completed the deed, then thought to myself "Lucky I didn't click Continue on that earlier quest". Then I headed to the forums knowing full well that there would be a thread about it and I was not disappointed.

While you are over-reacting somewhat*, I do agree that having deeds such as this one, where they can potentially reach a point of no return, is not a good design.

* It's for fortitude right? I mean who in their right mind uses that anyway?

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Originally Posted by SungXe

If a Deed is designed to need quest text reading aware players, Tracking an Old Goat is flawlessly executed and Implemented.

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Do go right ahead and ignore all the people who said they had read every word of the text of this quest and still could not tell that this npc may have X number of other quests that they will never be able to complete because this npc will never appear anywhere else in the game to give the rest of his quests.


These apologists may just as well cheer all the holes in the Pit of Iron as 'flawlessly executed and implemented' in order to teach the players to "Pay Attention To Terrains". See how easy it is to do these mental backflips to turn something obviously stupid into something seemingly virtuous?

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Originally Posted by TheCorbinator

There has NEVER BEEN A DEED that you CANNOT COMPLETE at ANY. GIVEN. TIME.
So! Care to enlighten me on where we freakin deviated from the NORMAL game development path?

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The do 400 tasks deed would like to see you in his office sir...
For a long time , when tasks ended at 58 ( or 56?) there was no way to get this deed.

And then there are the Festival deeds, which can't be done at ANY. GIVEN. TIME. NEITHER.

An accidental piece of information that I discovered that may help some people. I read the warning about this Old Goat deed, but I stupidly clicked on 'Continue Quest' when I spoke to Andreg after completing the scouting quest and sent him away.

However, in my case, I had all of the quests and I only needed to kill two more crebain and two more orcs before I had to hand it in to Andreg to complete the quest. I started to complete the quests anyway just to see what would happen. Then all of a sudden, when I killed my 10th orc to finish that quest, I saw a ring show up on my map! I followed it and saw that a fellow player by the name of Isilwing had her own Andreg and the golden ring was on top of him! I spoke to Isilwing's Andreg and handed in the orc quest and then asked her nicely if she would accompany me to kill one more crebain and complete that quest. She happily helped me on this and I was able to hand in the crebain quest to her Andreg and eventually finished off the Old Goat deed.

Thanks Isilwing!

Perhaps there is also a way for this to work if you haven't got the quest.

Share!

Form a Fellowship with someone who has the quests, and see if they can share it with you.

( or is this in a solo instance of some sort?)

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Originally Posted by Jarnos

The do 400 tasks deed would like to see you in his office sir...
For a long time , when tasks ended at 58 ( or 56?) there was no way to get this deed.

And then there are the Festival deeds, which can't be done at ANY. GIVEN. TIME. NEITHER.

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Ohh and I died at level 9. I've got 2 or 3 deeds I can't complete eaither!

seriously, all this deed gives is 5 turbine points and a rank of honor. 5 TPs isn't something to be upset about, and honor is easy eneugh to get I've got it at rank 8 on my LM and I wasn't even "farming" it

Why ppl here trying to prove me I am not reading quests when I doing it?
Red text inform you about nothing. It's not linked with deed or even do not inform you is there any more quests. Every one who read the quest should know that. I have strange feeling that mostly ppl who done deed saw big red letters, googled it, and they found "whining" of some guy who didnt done it before them.
My point is, there know about it couse firstly someone failed that deed. And second thing, sorry, I shouldnt be forced to google anything in that game.

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Originally Posted by BrianDavion

Ohh and I died at level 9. I've got 2 or 3 deeds I can't complete either!

seriously, all this deed gives is 5 turbine points and a rank of honour. 5 TPs isn't something to be upset about, and honour is easy enough to get I've got it at rank 8 on my LM and I wasn't even "farming" it

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I don't think they are upset about the 5 TP or the Honour, but the fact the deed remains unsolved in their log.
Some people are completionists and hate having undone deeds active.

The difference is the undying deeds don't actually show UNTILL you get them, so these don't bother them.

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Originally Posted by whheydt

Finally...a rewarding experience for those of us who like to actually pay attention to the game, read the quest text, and savor the plot lines....

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

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Ditto, old man, ditto.

When I started this, I also noticed the "you have a new deed" icon, which I clicked and therefore I saw what it was all about.

It's a bit like the "Undying" title... you missed it? Well, yeah, you missed it.

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Originally Posted by Berephon

Fascinating...I was trying to figure out why there were 7 objectives on this. Turns out someone tried turning off the deed, and added a blank objective instead of properly hiding the deed. The deed CAN'T be completed. I'm sending this to OCR for the Known Issues list. Crud.

Edit: There actually 4 discoverables, contrary to my original comment.

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I have no idea what you're talking about, since I completed that deed just fine... weird o_O
EDIT: ah it's ok, I saw you corrected on next page :)

The only deeds that your Deed log shows are ( or should be) those you CAN complete. Even the festival ones, and other special event deeds you will be probably able to complete in the future.
Deeds that cannot be completed should stay hidden to not to bother the player.

Every deed in LotRO works this way. Correct me if i am wrong.
So I assume that this deed I will be able to complete in the future or they will hide it in the next Hotfixes.

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Originally Posted by Rinnegan_EU

The only deeds that your Deed log shows are ( or should be) those you CAN complete. Even the festival ones, and other special event deeds you will be probably able to complete in the future.
Deeds that cannot be completed should stay hidden to not to bother the player.

Every deed in LotRO works this way. Correct me if i am wrong.
So I assume that this deed I will be able to complete in the future or they will hide it in the next Hotfixes.

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I don't want it hidden because it cannot ben hidden in my mind. Hiding it will not resolve the issue for me. I personally find it unfair that i was not able to complete the deed due to a random bug which prevented me from having the same exact quest that everyone in my fellowship got.. "hunting the pack". I want the quest and deed both. I earned it.

nevermind... it wont change anything...

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Originally Posted by Rinnegan_EU

The only deeds that your Deed log shows are ( or should be) those you CAN complete. Even the festival ones, and other special event deeds you will be probably able to complete in the future.
Deeds that cannot be completed should stay hidden to not to bother the player.

Every deed in LotRO works this way. Correct me if i am wrong.
So I assume that this deed I will be able to complete in the future or they will hide it in the next Hotfixes.

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This ^

All deeds can be completed.
The Failtacular cannot.

I accepted the quest while on horseback. I read that the whistle would summon him, but I didn't want to bother him if he was busy -- I wanted to go to where he normally was. I looked around but didn't see Andreg. Since the other quest from that NPC directed me to the ranger camp, I decided that Andreg must be over there, so I rode off to complete two quests at once. If I hadn't received that quest to go to the ranger camp, I probably would have summoned Andreg there, but...

Anyway, so I finally got to the ranger camp, figured out that he wasn't there, and summoned him. I then went and started working on quests, completing the closest one first. Once I ran to that close spot, I picked up a new quest which turned out to be the one that would make him unavailable. I read that red text and tried to cancel it, but the quest cannot be canceled. I tried to ignore it and I was able to complete two quests but then he disappeared and the darn whistle wouldn't resummon him because I had the uncancelable quest that was the "last" one.

I was running about and noticed Andreg trailing along behind another player and was able to turn the "kill crows" quest in, but didn't get any others, so I reluctantly turned in the "this is the last quest" as well. Poor writing/scripting that apparently wasn't really beta-tested, but then that's been true for a majority of the new quests this release.

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Originally Posted by TheCorbinator

This ^

All deeds can be completed.
The Failtacular cannot.

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Wrong. If e.g. you failed "Undying", you either have to reroll or you'll never get it on that char.

I fully support the addition of deeds for those who cautiously read quest texts, like in this case. Grinding raids is rewarded, I don't see why people who actually pay attention to the work of the developers who made all those quests wouldn't be rewarded too.

Just want to thank the OP for creating this thread because I was gonna do the same. Hopefully the devs are reading.

I like the idea of having a quest giver follow you around and needing to take him to the right spot to get his quests, but he should not provide his final quest (which ends his existence) until all his quests are done. That final ring above his head makes it very hard to know if you found the next quest spot or if you are done. I hated the guy in Annuminas too for this.

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Originally Posted by Korrigan

Wrong. If e.g. you failed "Undying", you either have to reroll or you'll never get it on that char.

I fully support the addition of deeds for those who cautiously read quest texts, like in this case. Grinding raids is rewarded, I don't see why people who actually pay attention to the work of the developers who made all those quests wouldn't be rewarded too.

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Up to that point I had never encountered a mobile quest giver, so I had no idea what was going on. He gave me three quests, 2 that I completed then the 3rd appeared to be the summary of those quests. I figured doing those two completed the quest chain (hence not caring about the red text), I had no idea there were other hidden quests related to this character. Does the red text actually say "there might be other quests not given by this character that will be unavailable if you do this quest?" If that's the case then you are right, but I'm pretty sure it doesnt say that.

Edit: Did anyone else chase Andraig bound to someone else. I was getting really annoyed at one point because I saw a quest icon appear on my minimap only to see it racing across my screen following another player. "Hey you ranger get back here!" I cried in frustration. Then I realized what the whistle did and felt dumb.

Having the option to dismiss the quest giver before all the quests he has are done is simply poor planning and development.

The option to dismiss for good should not come up until all quests are either accepted or abandoned.

Haven't read all the posts, but add me to the list of very frustrated. Wandered around for a long time trying to get quests. Eventually I turned in to Saerdan b/c I figured 5 quests was all I was going to get. Didn't realize that the red warning text also pertained to a deed. Please provide someway to complete the deed; completionists pull their hair out over this stuff.

Easiest solution for the devs would be an auto remove deed code it you failed the deed so its gone from the deed tab, i messed the deed up on 1 char got it done on the 2nd.

Would be nice if the deed would be dismissed from the first :)

Its sad to me that everything gets so quickly reduced to hardcore versus casual :(

As others have stated, I fully read the quest, turned in everything I had and then took his last quest. I was fully expecting the last quest to complete the chain as MANY quests turn into several other quests that complete chains and deeds.

I love deeds and quests that have consequences. I do not feel as though this one was very clear. The player has no idea if the last quest will be one or a player session with 5 branching quests.

The Pit of Iron was a single quest started from a guy that sends you to look for a dwarf. How was the player supposed to know that the deed ended NOW by accepting a quest that could have taken us anywhere?

One of the camps needs to have a whistle we can recover to finish this up.

So I did not do this quest chain by myself, I did it in a fellowship. Of this fellowship, myself and one other person are HUGE lore fans, and we read every single quest religiously. I also play with my Quest Tracker turned off so that I actually have to solve the quests - I love exploring and figuring out what quests want you to do, rather than simply following shiny rings around.

So, with that set, we entered Gravenwood - and a few minutes later there are 3 Andreg's running around.
We start with the initial quests, find the trap one right away, and due to some resource nodes, end up moving in the direction of the corrupted ooze. We happen to pick up the craban one because of it, as another node found us the orc killing one. All of these seemed very close together, but none of us picked up on the fact that it was proximity based.

We ended up completing 6/7.

Enter final quest, and RED TEXT.

I always stop and read red text, twice. No matter what. I make sure I understand it in context.
I had recieved that quest before I had finished turning my others in, so I wisely didn't continue and turned in every other quest that I had with Andreg.
I'm now down to only the final quest, and he has no more.
The text says all uncompleted quests will not be able to be finished.

I am perfectly okay because I have turned in all other quests. We check with the three of us in the group - we're all done everything and ready to move on. So we all turn it in.

THREE PEOPLE - at once. ALL who read the quests. ALL who do significant deeding, and me a completionist. TWO who read EVERY. SINGLE. BIT. OF. QUEST. DIALOGUE.
So frankly I take offense when you say read the quest. We read it - and there was no indicator we needed to go FIND more to get his quests. Other red text givers all had their quests chain-dependant, not explore-dependant.

As for being a completionist and not keeping track of my deeds - every time I enter a new area, I get swamped with deeds: Explorer, slayer, quest-completionist. None of which require my immediate dedicated focus, so I just clear my notifications every now and then. When new content comes out, I enjoy the content. Once I'm done playing with the content, I go back and try to finish every single deed. And even if I didn't, the deed mentions three people in it that you are helping, so it intuitively gives the impression that the deed stems from things from all three people.

Besides a few raid, entenmoor, and barrow-downs skirmish deeds, I have kept on top of finishing every deed that is unlockable in the game. I only have one toon, because that's how I like to play. I'm a founder and Lifetime, and my next highest toon is level 54.
So my anger is pallatable that this is the response I and my friends get when we bring up our issues.

And the GMs are no better - I put this issue in as a ticket, and all they did was close the ticket, leaving a message in the ticket to go to customer support on the Turbine website. That's really great in game support.

Just wanted to say that I've just completed the deed, without absolutely no trouble. Most of the time I ran around with the Ranger, and took a glance at the map - he does show with a quest marker when you pass the right spot. Furthermore, I noticed that the follow-up quests appeared after you had done a step of a previous quest. For example, when you kill your first orc, you get a quest to disable orc traps. The only thing was that you have to do is wait for a second or two without running away.

I'm sorry, but here I am with those who believe that there is nothing wrong. It seems a lot of people are in such a hurry to complete the game that they tend to miss details. I actually like the setup for this particular deed. And by the way, you do get notice for the deed, that little sign in your right bottom corner (unless you turned off these notifications).

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Originally Posted by Adanamir

It seems a lot of people are in such a hurry to complete the game that they tend to miss details.

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You mean a detail like a deed that lists THREE NPCs, when there's only one that bestows the requisite quests?

Turbine, count me amongst the dissatisfied. I, like many others in the thread, tried to do the quests on your terms, in good faith, and still wasn't able to complete the chain.

You made the content, I just want to play the content. Please fix it.

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Originally Posted by Grahlwur

There has been various information whether or not it is possible to complete your missing quests and the deed from another player's Andreg after completing the main quest quest yourself.

I just tried this out, and here's the report:
I completed the quest myself a few days back, hence been unable to summon Andreg and complete the remaining quests.
I asked a friend of mine, who didn't start the quest yet, to do the quest with me.
We started a fellowship, and naturally, we began our trip from Amlan who gives the initial quest.
We visited all locations that triggers the quests, and each time, before picking the quests up himself, my friend told me there was a ring. Though I was not able to pick up these quests neither before or after my friend did it, and of course he was not able to share them ("<player> is ineligible for this quest").
There was no problem whatsoever for my friend to obtain all required quests when we knew how it worked and got the locations, but that didn't help me.
I followed my friend and his summoned Andreg very closely all the time but there was never a ring above Andreg or on the mini-map.

Conclusion:
If you have already completed the main-quest and lost your whistle, you can NOT use someone else's NPC to get the remaining quests for the deed.

P.S.
I have 3/7 for "Tracking an Old Goat" and I have done several more quests in the Gravenwood than the Gravenwood quest-deed requires, so "Tracking an Old Goat"-deed is not gating "Quests in the Gravenwood"-deed.

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you are right i backtracked with a kinmember aswell following her around, she got all quests. I myself got stuck in a trap three times, but yet i did not get any of the quests. Which is silly considering i spent 3 minutes rooted :P

Please make it so we can backtrack through repeatable or anything. I hate the fact i missed quests because i walk from ore to ore then do my quests.

edit:
to be honest its not the virtue that is bugging me, i sent out to do all quests on my champion so obviously i tried completing all deeds (non hidden) of ROI and i hate the fact i missed something. second and third character completions arent really satisfying me

I just ran my second character through this series of quests. It is UNREAL how small of an area Andreg will give you a quest from, especially since I was keeping a close eye on him after getting screwed the first time. There are orcs literally from his little camp all the way to the Theodred camp but he only gives the orc kill quest in one little spot over halfway there...

It's extremely poorly designed, I'm sorry. There is little to no direction on how to complete the deed, and the fact that you can only get the quests in a VERY small area is just ridiculous. I really hope they change this and make a static version of Andreg or something so we can complete this deed. I really want to try out Honour as well, and it's just really frustrating that my main character is screwed out of this deed, TP, and virtue because of poor design.

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Originally Posted by TheIxian

You mean a detail like a deed that lists THREE NPCs, when there's only one that bestows the requisite quests?

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This was my biggest problem with it. After seeing the red text I checked my quest log and saw no more quests. I wasn't sure if I should have more (both me and the person we were questing with checked). We looked at the deed log and saw THREE names like you did and assumed we would get the other quests from them. Why doesn't the deed say something more accurate like how you must explore the forest while watching Andreg take every step instead of mentioning Saeradan and Amlan who have nothing to do with it? Grr so frustrating!

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Originally Posted by Banaticus

I accepted the quest while on horseback. I read that the whistle would summon him, but I didn't want to bother him if he was busy -- I wanted to go to where he normally was. I looked around but didn't see Andreg.

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This got me too, but the quest itself said "scout the path" so I figured Andreg must be at the other end, or that if I went along the path I'd be able to summon him eventually.

After getting all the way there and it still not being available (still on a horse :D), I picked up one quest from another Andreg running around. I did that one then realised I could actually summon him now (I got off the horse to do the quest, still hadn't twigged at this point...). Summoned him up, did a couple of quests, all fun, get the red quest. Read it, cancel it (successfully! though I'm sure the people who say it doesn't work properly are right) and finish the other quests I have.

Open the final quest again, I've run all over killing orcs so I'm sure I'm finished, and as someone else said it's just the ones that are unfinished and I have none. So I click the button and get rid of andreg. I missed four of the quests in the end.

Most importantly, I IGNORE DEEDS BECAUSE THEY HAVE SPOILERS. I don't want to know what places there are in this area or how many there are, it's much more fun as a surprise. Otherwise you know you've seen all the special places as you've finished the deed.

Really disappointing Turbine, there's ways to do this kind of thing (choosing which of the two paths to take into Dunland for example) Introducing companion quests givers, hidden quests, and a quest deed AND making it un repeatable was just poor design. There are too many new and surprising things at once.

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Originally Posted by Korrigan

Wrong. If e.g. you failed "Undying", you either have to reroll or you'll never get it on that char.

I fully support the addition of deeds for those who cautiously read quest texts, like in this case. Grinding raids is rewarded, I don't see why people who actually pay attention to the work of the developers who made all those quests wouldn't be rewarded too.

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Incorrect. The Undying deed does not haunt your log, never being able to be removed.
All deeds can be completed.

If the deed is NOT completed, it is removed (i.e. undying, etc...)
Even if you must wait for a festival deed, you can still complete them the following year.

As I've said, there is no defense for this deed/quest line. The concept is stupid, and the implementation was horrendous at best. I'm sure that you're feeling good because you 'cautiously read text' or used google, but the completionists out there are FEELING this one.

So, again, get off this thread. Your 'wisdom' and comments are not needed.

Are you a moderator to tell me where I'm allowed to post or not?
Nope, of course not.
My post was within the rules of the forum and therefore perfectly appropriate, definitely more than your aggressive tone...

This said, I'm sure Turbine also likes to hear that some of us had no problems with those quests and that deed.

Deed fail in my opinion, but, i think it is a challenging and intriguing idea.

Just bad execution.

If you could set it so that it would remove itself, that would be ok for me.

I have one other thatis stuck as well, and have noticed plenty of other buggy instances (epic chain completion if in a group etc).

I think honestly this is down to sloppy coding, more so than in other releases.

It's a shame as the writing and ideas and graphics are wonderful.

Shame not so much on the implimentation.

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Originally Posted by Chunky_baby

Deed fail in my opinion, but, i think it is a challenging and intriguing idea.

Just bad execution.

If you could set it so that it would remove itself, that would be ok for me.

I have one other thatis stuck as well, and have noticed plenty of other buggy instances (epic chain completion if in a group etc).

I think honestly this is down to sloppy coding, more so than in other releases.

It's a shame as the writing and ideas and graphics are wonderful.

Shame not so much on the implimentation.

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It's not sloppy coding, but I'd agree with poor implementation. This was a product rushed to market, and it shows. The issues being discussed in this thread - and many others - were all identified in beta, they just didn't get fixed. It's a trend I'm not pleased to see, considering that we're supposed to be getting better releases not worse, with all the touted increased income from FTP. I can only hope that this trend gets reversed, and soon.

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Originally Posted by Jenara

It's not sloppy coding, but I'd agree with poor implementation.

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Agreed, it sounds like the devs assumed players would see the red text and understand there were more quests. I know many that saw the red text, checked their logs and thought they were done. I actually ran around for a bit checking for rings and reread the quest I had already read. I specifically completed and turned in my other quests before finishing. I just had no clue there were more I hadn't even started yet.

I think kudos are in order for the idea, but we can't be mind readers. With no vision of the future quest chains or plotlines we have no understanding if this guy will come back and offer us more later. Even Gandalf come back and helped the battle at Helm's deep. But the fellowship's quest wasn't completed yet when he took off the first time :p

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Originally Posted by Jenara

It's not sloppy coding, but I'd agree with poor implementation. This was a product rushed to market, and it shows. The issues being discussed in this thread - and many others - were all identified in beta, they just didn't get fixed. It's a trend I'm not pleased to see, considering that we're supposed to be getting better releases not worse, with all the touted increased income from FTP.

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This just goes to debunk once and for all the fallacy that having a store, getting more money from a game that is increasingly designed around it, does -not- somehow make the devs more willing to take care of known problems before sending them right to the live server, nor does it somehow translate into the game having more resources or QA testers. They clearly have the ability and willingness to hot fix, just look at the *cough* *cough* backpacks and corpses they immediately pulled out. People pointed these problems out when they did this in Annuminas. People pointed out the exact problems when they had this RoI in beta. Bet you anything we will see these types of quests in the future again. Remember how when Radiance first came out Turbine and the assorted fanboys/apologists did backflips to try to make it sound like a good idea, only to see much later Turbine tuck tail between legs and admitted it was a blunder. You cannot correct something if you don't acknowledge that it is a mistake in design or judgement.

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Originally Posted by hucklebarry

Agreed, it sounds like the devs assumed players would see the red text and understand there were more quests. I know many that saw the red text, checked their logs and thought they were done. I actually ran around for a bit checking for rings and reread the quest I had already read. I specifically completed and turned in my other quests before finishing. I just had no clue there were more I hadn't even started yet.

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I did exactly this - read the red text carefully and saw no more quests - so I handed in.

At the moment its irritating - if I finish all quests with not enough xp left to hit 75 then that's a different matter....

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Originally Posted by Berephon

The deed is specifically there to list the quests needed to complete it. It was added because people in Beta were complaining about not knowing whether they found all the discoverables (which are completely optional and do not affect the division quest deed) or not. I am beginning to regret adding it.

There are only three discoverables, and the quest clearly indicates you cannot complete the discoverables after completing the main quest. This is no different than Annuminas. It also clearly indicates what route to follow (basically bee-line to the quest guide, which crosses the discoverable hotspots for all quests).

I cannot emphasize more to READ THE QUESTS. If you don't, then you miss what the game is all about and miss any guidance and instruction. That's not going to change.

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I READ EVERY SINGLE WORD OF EVERY QUEST IN ROI THAT I HAVE COMPLETED!!!

Nowhere did it indicate that it failed to give me all the quests. As the deed has THREE names listed in it's description, I had no way of knowing or just guessing that I could NEVER complete it. In good faith, I did every quest he offered me and continued on my way; fully believing the other quests for the deed would show up at a different place from another of the npc mentioned in the description.

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Originally Posted by Korrigan

This said, I'm sure Turbine also likes to hear that some of us had no problems with those quests and that deed.

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While Corb's tone may have seemed aggressive, the post to which he replied too could be seen as condescendig to people who do not read quest text. And being condescendant to people who are frustrated will lead to even more frustration.

With that said, Corb still has a point. It is not because some people got it right that it is not badly/poorly implemented. Turbine's best source of testing/feedback is a live environment. And when a good portion of your player base tells you something is wrong, it warrants at the very least a look at.

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Originally Posted by Celestialdemons

While Corb's tone may have seemed aggressive, the post to which he replied too could be seen as condescendig to people who do not read quest text. And being condescendant to people who are frustrated will lead to even more frustration.

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Wrong. I only praised that people reading quests are somehow rewarded. If you read my original post again, I didn't belittle those who don't. Just has those who don't raid won't get raid rewards, those who don't read carefully won't get the associated rewards, nothing more, nothing less. And his "don't post here anymore we don't need you" part is definitely rude and inappropriate.

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Originally Posted by Celestialdemons

With that said, Corb still has a point. It is not because some people got it right that it is not badly/poorly implemented. Turbine's best source of testing/feedback is a live environment. And when a good portion of your player base tells you something is wrong, it warrants at the very least a look at.

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If it's possible, then some people did it right, and others didn't. Just like when you wipe on a raid. Those who did it right got rewarded, the others didn't. Sounds quite fair to me. I had no problems getting all the quests by following the hints given in the initial quest and the deed.
This sounds pretty similar to me than the people who asked for the "Undying" deed to be removed because they didn't manage to achieve it. And yeah, that was asked too. "If I can't do it, nobody should" is not really a valid argument, sorry.

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Originally Posted by Korrigan

This sounds pretty similar to me than the people who asked for the "Undying" deed to be removed because they didn't manage to achieve it. And yeah, that was asked too. "If I can't do it, nobody should" is not really a valid argument, sorry.

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Sounds completely different to me. Undying has a clear requirement. Don't die.

The requirement here was: All unfinished quests will be lost.

I didn't have any unfinished quests. I actually did 3 of them. How many were there? The QUEST didn't say how many there were. And my log was empty. There is a clear difference between a fact based accomplishment and a theoretical one. People were left to their imaginations as to weather they should turn in since all quests were complete or weather they should keep hunting non-existing quests.

I put an in-game ticket in about this issue. I was told 'Your report indicates a known issue. This issue is being investigated by our development team'. No further information was given. But it sounds like they may do something about it at some point.

I, too, was deceived by the text that said make sure all your open quests were done or you'll lose them. They were done. Done and gone, and no indication that Andrag would actually give me more of them. I was hoping they would pop up somewhere else, from one of the other NPCs listed.

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Originally Posted by Korrigan

Wrong. I only praised that people reading quests are somehow rewarded. If you read my original post again, I didn't belittle those who don't. Just has those who don't raid won't get raid rewards, those who don't read carefully won't get the associated rewards, nothing more, nothing less.

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The problem with your stance is that players who DID READ THE QUESTS are failing.

What is the logical conclusion to this set of circumstances?
-player, by random luck, completes 4 of Andreg's quests (so, 4/7)
-they're standing at the camp with him, about to hand in the final quest (5/7 now)
-the deed EXPLICITLY STATES Saeradan and whatsisname also need help

At this point, am I reasonably to assume - without any indication whatsoever ingame - that the last two quests are bestowed by anyone other than Saeradan and his memorably named compatriot?

Just because it works SOMETIMES doesn't mean it isn't broken.

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Originally Posted by Korrigan

Wrong. I only praised that people reading quests are somehow rewarded. If you read my original post again, I didn't belittle those who don't. Just has those who don't raid won't get raid rewards, those who don't read carefully won't get the associated rewards, nothing more, nothing less. And his "don't post here anymore we don't need you" part is definitely rude and inappropriate.

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I think you should read the text as it is presented here. Notice I wrote the word could meaning that it was a possibility that some people took it as such. There's no need to get defensive here.

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Originally Posted by Korrigan

If it's possible, then some people did it right, and others didn't. Just like when you wipe on a raid. Those who did it right got rewarded, the others didn't. Sounds quite fair to me. I had no problems getting all the quests by following the hints given in the initial quest and the deed.
This sounds pretty similar to me than the people who asked for the "Undying" deed to be removed because they didn't manage to achieve it. And yeah, that was asked too. "If I can't do it, nobody should" is not really a valid argument, sorry.

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I think you do not understand correctly the difference between the two.

One has a clear definition: Do not die.

The other is vague and has no clear in-game indications.

The core problem is, was, and has been, that the quest does not tell you that turning it in will stop you from being able to complete the deed.

Yes the quest tells you that you are going to lose anything incomplete and the flashing warning signs should go off when you see the red text so even a player who didn't read closely at first should be double checking before completing. However at no point in the text is it clear that finishing with Andreg will forfeit your ability to complete the deed. Quite the opposite in fact as the text suggests that Saeradan at the least should be giving further quests towards completing the deed.

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Originally Posted by Korrigan

Are you a moderator to tell me where I'm allowed to post or not?
Nope, of course not.
My post was within the rules of the forum and therefore perfectly appropriate, definitely more than your aggressive tone...

This said, I'm sure Turbine also likes to hear that some of us had no problems with those quests and that deed.

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No, I'm not a moderator, I'm merely sick of people claiming I (we) have not read the quests, and there is 'nothing wrong with this deed'...

I'd say 17 pages and nearly 26,000 views on this forum thread PROVE that something is wrong. I'm not trying to be 'aggressive', I'm merely trying to keep the thread on track.

We are not happy, and we have been snubbed by the 'creator' of this deed.
That, in itself, is a huge freakin problem.
Commentary on your successes is unwarranted, nor do those who ARE having problems care to read it (myself included).

The design of this deed goes against Turbine's deed designs. The quest series gives ZERO indication of multiple quests outside those acquired through the beaten path.
But, arguably worst of all, is the total lack of care from Turbine themselves, and the blatant disrespect for the deed-farming/completionist community.

Frankly, I don't care if it's no big deal to you. It's a big deal to thousands of people.
Therefore (much like radiance) it is a problem.
It must be fixed.

I want it fixed :)

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Originally Posted by TheCorbinator

No, I'm not a moderator, I'm merely sick of people claiming I (we) have not read the quests, and there is 'nothing wrong with this deed'...

I'd say 17 pages and nearly 26,000 views on this forum thread PROVE that something is wrong. I'm not trying to be 'aggressive', I'm merely trying to keep the thread on track.

We are not happy, and we have been snubbed by the 'creator' of this deed.
That, in itself, is a huge freakin problem.
Commentary on your successes is unwarranted, nor do those who ARE having problems care to read it (myself included).

The design of this deed goes against Turbine's deed designs. The quest series gives ZERO indication of multiple quests outside those acquired through the beaten path.
But, arguably worst of all, is the total lack of care from Turbine themselves, and the blatant disrespect for the deed-farming/completionist community.

Frankly, I don't care if it's no big deal to you. It's a big deal to thousands of people.
Therefore (much like radiance) it is a problem.
It must be fixed.

I want it fixed :)

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I think it's worth calmly discussing this deed, because it is a somewhat new direction for turbine, however I do think demanding they fix it claiming it's broken (it's working as intended)
however to discuss it properly we need to calmly tell turbine what DID work, what DIDN'T and what we'd like to see them do with similer things in the future. (perhaps a warning in red that "Warning you are not done all quests andreg can give you" message in the future would be useful? then people wouldn't be able to say they didn't know)

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Originally Posted by BrianDavion

however to discuss it properly we need to calmly tell turbine what DID work, what DIDN'T and what we'd like to see them do with similer things in the future.

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I think a number of people already had done that -

Turbine needs to decide what is best for its own financial interest : to make quests that are unforgiving and punitive just to prove some 'point' about people reading quest text, or not to.

It is that simple.

Oh, and cutting the condescending attitude about asking people to 'read the quest' will probably help tons in public relations.

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Originally Posted by LadyDena

I think a number of people already had done that -

Turbine needs to decide what is best for its own financial interest : to make quests that are unforgiving and punitive just to prove some 'point' about people reading quest text, or not to.

It is that simple.

Oh, and cutting the condescending attitude about asking people to 'read the quest' will probably help tons in public relations.

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All too true... My overall intensity stems directly from the nonchalant attitude our 'developer' has given.

hello :) sorry I couldn't manage to read all 17 pages of the topic, just want to join the sad crowd =)
I did notice the 'end journey' quest and I made sure to complete everything he offers before turning in the last quest but that wasn't enough somehow. So now I have 4/7 and no means to finish the deed, dear devs please help :)

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Originally Posted by whheydt

Finally...a rewarding experience for those of us who like to actually pay attention to the game, read the quest text, and savor the plot lines....

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

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Like Like Like :)

From someone who does read all the quest texts (but not 17 pages on this thread...) and still managed to misinterpret and lost the deed:

Just make it possible to pick up the whistle again, and continue the deed.

The idea itself with an NCP companion who gives out quests as you go around is good and gives some much needed variety. Just make it possible to go back and pick up the quests again like with every other landscape quest in the game. Every other place where you can lose quests by proceeding, it's in an instance, where it it very clear you will leave.

This deed is like...

Going to the store and getting some groceries... when you get home you notice that you forgot to buy bread, and you go back. But then the shopkeeper suddenly forbids you to buy the bread because you forgot it...

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Originally Posted by Uladar

This deed is like...

Going to the store and getting some groceries... when you get home you notice that you forgot to buy bread, and you go back. But then the shopkeeper suddenly forbids you to buy the bread because you forgot it...

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It is kind of like that. You were even given a shopping list and a warning that "the store is closing; are you sure you have everything you came here for?"

I dunno; I thought it was a fun little puzzle, and the deed is my reward for having spent a fair bit of time trying to coax all the quests out of Andreg. (One thing I will whine about is that Andreg shouldn't be allowed to veer off the path and go slaughter something that he hasn't given you the quest for yet... :P)

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Originally Posted by Uladar

This deed is like...

Going to the store and getting some groceries... when you get home you notice that you forgot to buy bread, and you go back. But then the shopkeeper suddenly forbids you to buy the bread because you forgot it...

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Or after paying you are told today was buy 1 get 3 free, but you can't use it on the purchase you already made.

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Originally Posted by TheCorbinator

All too true... My overall intensity stems directly from the nonchalant attitude our 'developer' has given.

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Yes exactly.

I was frustrated and annoyed at 1st; when I read his posts though, I started fuming. I even ranted to my kin a good 5-10 minutes about totally messed up this whole thing is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Uladar

This deed is like...

Going to the store and getting some groceries... when you get home you notice that you forgot to buy bread, and you go back. But then the shopkeeper suddenly forbids you to buy the bread because you forgot it...

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Definitely a very bad analogy.
Bread is food, essential for living, a base nutriment. Those quests are only a detail in the whole expansion, and not mandatory to continue the story.

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Originally Posted by Korrigan

Definitely a very bad analogy.
Bread is food, essential for living, a base nutriment. Those quests are only a detail in the whole expansion, and not mandatory to continue the story.

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Your tearing apart of the analogy is bad, actually. Bread is NOT a base nutrient (<- notice the correct spelling?). Whole cultures somehow do without it. If you don't like bread, replace it with Beer.

Additionally, I've already said I've been told through an in game ticket that 'Your report indicates a known issue.' And they said it's being looked into. So while all you're doing here is trolling, Turbine is actually helping us.

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Originally Posted by Greenasp

Your tearing apart of the analogy is bad, actually. Bread is NOT a base nutrient. Whole cultures somehow do without it. If you don't like bread, replace it with Beer. That seems more your speed.

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We don't talk about "whole cultures" but about ours, where it is a base food.
And be careful with insinuations which border assumptions and insults. I think those are forbidden on this forum. It's sad that some can't answer someone disagreeing with them politely without resorting to personal attacks.

PS: I speak 5 languages, but English is not my first one. I make mistakes. How many languages do you write/read/speak fluently?
PS2: Nice edit removing the most insulting part. Sad that forums keep edit history.

Well I was going to say all of what as been said before so I wont bother but will add my voice of resentment over this.

Sad to have to add to this thread, but here I go.

I like the idea of the quest.

I hate the execution.

I don't need the virtue - my main toon already has just about every virtue at 12 or much higher.

The quest wording is ambiguous. Have you completed all quests that you have been given? Yes. Have you linked it to one of many deeds that pop up all over the place? No. Did you google the quest? No. Did you ask in GLFF "Hey guys - is there an issue with this one particular quest out of all of them?" No.

I prefer quests that can be completed without resorting to having to look them up or ask other people.

And yes, I do read the quests, since I enjoy the storyline.

Stuck on 6 of 7, since the hounds didn't pop for me.

Customer service could do with a little polish too.

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Originally Posted by Korrigan

Definitely a very bad analogy.
Bread is food, essential for living, a base nutriment. Those quests are only a detail in the whole expansion, and not mandatory to continue the story.

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Well smarty-pants... then just replace the bread in the analogy with something else :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greenasp

Your tearing apart of the analogy is bad, actually. Bread is NOT a base nutrient (<- notice the correct spelling?). Whole cultures somehow do without it. If you don't like bread, replace it with Beer.

Additionally, I've already said I've been told through an in game ticket that 'Your report indicates a known issue.' And they said it's being looked into. So while all you're doing here is trolling, Turbine is actually helping us.

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Well it's a sliver of hope to see that Turbine is 'looking into it'... Although I'd much rather hear from the creator himself, who seemed VERY willing to tell us what we did wrong and how we should play the game.

Now, lets get this deed fixed and then the Trum Dreng deed fixed...
And then, lets get Draigoch to NOT BUG MID FIGHT!

And then, maybe instead of launching a product a day early, we can confirm that we do not have blatant bugs (<cough> Corpses/Backpacks <cough>) and launch it on the date advertised.
Or, maybe we could find better beta testers.
And, hopefully, improve the non-existant customer service from the GM all the way up to the Developer.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I think RoI is second only to Moria in the 'epicness/awesomeness' expansion category; but it is #1 in the bugs/failtaculars category as well.

<shrugs> Just a suggestion.

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Originally Posted by Fillur

Manually running around with Andreg stuck on the "continue" quest problem

just found Cruel Traps at 81.6s, 12.0w

edit: and Hunting the Pack at 83.0s, 13.8w

edit: got deed

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OMG THANK YOU for taking the time and trouble to post this for us! I looked around for nearly an hour, trying to trigger the Cruel Traps quest (yes, after having to X out of the warning screen at the other end of the quest line) and was about to give up because many friends seemed to think that just reaching the end was enough to prevent the unbestowed quests from triggering.

+ Rep for you, Fillur, and if I could give you a bonus, I would! :D

I strongly urge the devs to add an option to the final quest screen that says something like "Continue Later" for players who don't realize they can hit Escape, or click the X in the upper right-hand corner, or close the screen in other ways. I think a lot of players are getting screwed simply because they don't think they have any options but to Continue here.

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Originally Posted by Shapnakarash

Sad to have to add to this thread, but here I go.

I like the idea of the quest.

I hate the execution.

I don't need the virtue - my main toon already has just about every virtue at 12 or much higher.

The quest wording is ambiguous. Have you completed all quests that you have been given? Yes. Have you linked it to one of many deeds that pop up all over the place? No. Did you google the quest? No. Did you ask in GLFF "Hey guys - is there an issue with this one particular quest out of all of them?" No.

I prefer quests that can be completed without resorting to having to look them up or ask other people.

And yes, I do read the quests, since I enjoy the storyline.

Stuck on 6 of 7, since the hounds didn't pop for me.

Customer service could do with a little polish too.

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This is pretty much exactly what happened to me. For a while, I thought... wow, this is a very unique way to give quests... nifty. Unfortunately, it wasn't so nifty when warned I would lose uncompleted quests (I didn't have any) so proceeded to finish with him...so when Andreg disappeared, I see in the deed log that I never even received one of the quests.

Definitely NOT nifty. Please fix this! :(

just want to say thanks, because of this thread when I actually got Andreg I knew enough to make sure I picked up all the quests before handing in the last one.

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Originally Posted by Boggo2300

just want to say thanks, because of this thread when I actually got Andreg I knew enough to make sure I picked up all the quests before handing in the last one.

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and long term thats proably what'll happen. I imagine when lorien launched a handfull of elves ended up with the title "poacher of the golden wood" and where furious about missing "protector of elven values"

I must give a hearty "thank you" to all here who shared information about this questline/deed. I followed the tips very carefully and I was able to complete the deed. I do read quest text as I enjoy the story, but I might well have misunderstood the text in this case, if not for this thread. I am sorry others have had problems, and I hope everyone gets a chance to complete this.

I really do love the dynamic quest-giver mechanics. They may need some tweaking, but most worthwhile things do.

A little tip for those of you who pressed continue quest, but didn't hand the final one in yet.

I read all the quests on my main character, I really do enjoy the stories, especially in Isengard. But english is my 3rd language , so I misunderstood the phrase: "Warning, if you advance this quest...". I thought it meant: if you complete this quest, but, obviously now, it does not.

So I stumbled upon this thread and went to the location of the hounds. When some guy with his andreg passed me, I noticed the ring above him. I could pick up the quest. So I had a quick chat with the guy and we went to the trap place and I could pick up that quest too. After completing it, I could hand it in at his guard, and managed to finish the deed.

So all you need is a friendly passenger, one who is about to receive superior tools of the woodsman :)

PS: I doubt you can still do this if you handed in the darkness quest already. It does work if you only pressed continue, cause the quests don't cancel yet. Only andreg disappears.

The deed mentions helping "Saeradan, Amlan, and Andreg". Since the ranger NPC has no more quests available, I continued thinking I would recieve them from one of the rangers later. While I found it fun having the ranger follow me giving quests.. not being able to complete a deed and not having all quests clearly available is poorly designed. I would really appreciate having these quests available to finish the deed.

Thanks,
Malivek

Same happend to me. I thought i would get the quests later. Pls Turbine fix this!!

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Originally Posted by Shapnakarash

The quest wording is ambiguous. Have you completed all quests that you have been given? Yes. Have you linked it to one of many deeds that pop up all over the place? No. Did you google the quest? No. Did you ask in GLFF "Hey guys - is there an issue with this one particular quest out of all of them?" No.

I prefer quests that can be completed without resorting to having to look them up or ask other people.

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I totally agree. I noticed the deed only a few days after I've finished the quests. I made sure, all open quest were handed in, before completing the quest that contained the warning. Well, at least my alts can complete all the quests, now that I know they exist.

I don't mind drops or items you may stumble upon that start a quest, as long as you can go back and look for it, after you found out they exist.

I posted in the Hunting the Pack thread above, but I echo the sentiment. When the red warning was there I carefully looked at my class log. I should be held accountable for quests that were in progress with the warning ignored. I shouldn't be held accountable for an invisible quest that I didn't get because I didn't hit the exact right spot of the landscape.

The only quest that I'm missing on this item is Hunting the Pack. It seems awful to bind progression to something that becomes arbitrarily impossible to complete.

After opening three tickets and getting three Working as Intended responses, I'm not really interested in trying to play further until I get clarification that the working in the quest is indeed what is intended.

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Originally Posted by darkalice

Yes but at the expense of players with a different play style. Yeah that's fair.

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The warning is quite obvious and is in red and you don't even need to scroll the quest text to see it.

I think it might have been better to just block the later quests of his until you've done all the optional quests and only then will you have "scouted" the area. But I think players would complain at being forced to do long quest chains maybe.

It is a shame that Turbine tried something different here in terms of quest design and that it has resulted in what appears to be the longest thread involved with the ROI launch. Personally I had no problems what so ever with this quest. I got the NPC , saw that summoning him triggered a Deed and that he gave out quests for the Deed completion. In the course of running around doing the quests I got very early I had finished all but one by the time I got to the final red warning quest. I stopped there and went off and found the other quest trigger spot and moved on.

I thought it was actually one of the better quests in the game in that rather than a quest focus letting you beeline to a quest it was a way of letting you/making you explore the area and a different way of actually getting a quest/deed done and wasn't just a look for the glowing ring npc that people have been conditioned to.

The people who run into the problem seem to be the people who have gotten the NPC and then run directly to the patrol point and done then hand in usually resulting in only having 3 quests of the 7 done. This seems to happen when people don't check their Deed log and just motor towards the highlighted finish line as the Deed log for this quest is the only real indication of the hidden quests.

I guess there are more deed completionists out there than realised. :) Most people don't need the virtue and the quest isn't linked to the meta-deeds for region completion but this thread is by far the longest.

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Originally Posted by Lohi

The warning is quite obvious and is in red and you don't even need to scroll the quest text to see it.

I think it might have been better to just block the later quests of his until you've done all the optional quests and only then will you have "scouted" the area. But I think players would complain at being forced to do long quest chains maybe.

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The warning is very obvious. It's too bad it's incomplete and gives no indication that there are six quests rather than four and that two of the quests are only offered under special circumstances. Even in you read the warning, you'd still turn in the quest prematurely unless you also read the deed window and made the connection.

I'll live without the deed. There are plenty of deeds I don't have. This was simply poor implimentation of a quest, no excuses.

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Originally Posted by Tullaian

The people who run into the problem seem to be the people who have gotten the NPC and then run directly to the patrol point and done then hand in usually resulting in only having 3 quests of the 7 done. This seems to happen when people don't check their Deed log and just motor towards the highlighted finish line as the Deed log for this quest is the only real indication of the hidden quests.

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I *do* read the deed log. I'm just not in the habit of reading it in the middle of an wolf and orc-infested woods. I read it in a camp where I'm not going to get mobbed. This wouldn't be so bad if it happened anywhere else in the game, but to my knowledge it doesn't. Nowhere do I know of is there a deed you can lock yourself out of if you don't check the log immediately.

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Originally Posted by Tullaian

I guess there are more deed completionists out there than realised. :) Most people don't need the virtue and the quest isn't linked to the meta-deeds for region completion but this thread is by far the longest.

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That isn't the point. The point is that this is an prime example of the poor or just plain buggy implimentation of quests in this expansion. There are many other examples.

As you that follow the forums know I do not complain much. But after reading this thread and finding out I can not complete a deed because of an in game bug, upsets me. I had not heard you had to summon the guy over and over and over and over until he gave you another quest.

I gave on on the guy after visiting a person you told me a mountain track was found, but no one had traveled it for some time. That along with the woman's footprints earlier in the falcon clan territory told me this was the lady. But I summon the guy and nothing.

He shows up and no quest ring.

Oh an by the way I have 2 alts now that have missing quest givers. I have rings but no NPC to talk to to get the quest. As far as I was concerned this is what was happening in this stupid quest line.

Total fail Turbine. Total Fail.

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Originally Posted by whatstaters

I posted in the Hunting the Pack thread above, but I echo the sentiment. When the red warning was there I carefully looked at my class log. I should be held accountable for quests that were in progress with the warning ignored. I shouldn't be held accountable for an invisible quest that I didn't get because I didn't hit the exact right spot of the landscape.

The only quest that I'm missing on this item is Hunting the Pack. It seems awful to bind progression to something that becomes arbitrarily impossible to complete.

After opening three tickets and getting three Working as Intended responses, I'm not really interested in trying to play further until I get clarification that the working in the quest is indeed what is intended.

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A dev already posted that this is in fact working exactly as intended.

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Originally Posted by ddaedelus

I *do* read the deed log. I'm just not in the habit of reading it in the middle of an wolf and orc-infested woods. I read it in a camp where I'm not going to get mobbed. This wouldn't be so bad if it happened anywhere else in the game, but to my knowledge it doesn't. Nowhere do I know of is there a deed you can lock yourself out of if you don't check the log immediately.



That isn't the point. The point is that this is an prime example of the poor or just plain buggy implimentation of quests in this expansion. There are many other examples.

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Hmm different playstyles I guess. I always check my deed log when a new deed opens up to see what it is. Especially in the expansion where I am doing it all for the first time and the deeds have been part of the guided exploration of the new stuff.

I don't think you can say the quest is buggy, it clearly works the way it was designed and can be completed.

In terms of being poorly implemented or not I guess that is a different question. I saw immediately how the deed was working and never had a problem but I know other people in our kin who are deliberately levelling slowly to savour the RoI content still missed out on the deed despite being quest/deed completionists and now now equally as miffed as some of the posters here.

What to do though ? They tried something new here , if the warning said this NPC has 7 hidden quests do not dismiss him if you haven't done him well then they wouldn't be hidden quests anymore. They did give a big red warning but clearly enough people have mis-interpreted the warning to highlight a possible issue with the instructions but how much should it be scripted/spoon fed then ?

There isn't even a title for the deed though, is this really the issue that has caused the most angst with ROI? *cough* Pit of Iron I'm looking at you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lohi

The warning is quite obvious and is in red and you don't even need to scroll the quest text to see it.

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The problem is that the warning tells you to make sure you've turned in all your quests...there is NO mention that this is your last chance to complete the deed.

I said it earlier in the thread but the problem remains that the quest dialouge is completely silent on the matter of who gives the quests for the deed. When you start the chain the deed pops up and you can see that there are a number of quests to complete. However you are also told that you are helping multiple NPCs with this chain, based on all of our past experience with quest chains a player is entirely reasonable to assume that all 3 of the NPCs named will give quests related to this chain (and thus the deed). The final red warning makes no mention that no further quests will eb given in this chain it only indicates that quests associated with one of the three named NPCs will no longer be available.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tullaian

Hmm different playstyles I guess. I always check my deed log when a new deed opens up to see what it is. Especially in the expansion where I am doing it all for the first time and the deeds have been part of the guided exploration of the new stuff.

I don't think you can say the quest is buggy, it clearly works the way it was designed and can be completed.

In terms of being poorly implemented or not I guess that is a different question. I saw immediately how the deed was working and never had a problem but I know other people in our kin who are deliberately levelling slowly to savour the RoI content still missed out on the deed despite being quest/deed completionists and now now equally as miffed as some of the posters here.

What to do though ? They tried something new here , if the warning said this NPC has 7 hidden quests do not dismiss him if you haven't done him well then they wouldn't be hidden quests anymore. They did give a big red warning but clearly enough people have mis-interpreted the warning to highlight a possible issue with the instructions but how much should it be scripted/spoon fed then ?

There isn't even a title for the deed though, is this really the issue that has caused the most angst with ROI? *cough* Pit of Iron I'm looking at you.

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I believe the overall angst originates directly from the fact that, if you mess up, you are forever stuck with the deed.
Although it is annoying, you can navigate/complete the Pits of Iron.
Although he bugs 50% of the time mid-fight, you can kill Draigoch T2 CM.

You can not, no matter what you do, complete the Failtacular if you lose the whistle.
Therein lies the problem.

Although the solution is quite simple, really: Tether the quests to the stationary Andreg outside of Saeradan's camp.

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Originally Posted by Tullaian

Hmm different playstyles I guess. I always check my deed log when a new deed opens up to see what it is. Especially in the expansion where I am doing it all for the first time and the deeds have been part of the guided exploration of the new stuff.

I don't think you can say the quest is buggy, it clearly works the way it was designed and can be completed.

In terms of being poorly implemented or not I guess that is a different question. I saw immediately how the deed was working and never had a problem but I know other people in our kin who are deliberately levelling slowly to savour the RoI content still missed out on the deed despite being quest/deed completionists and now now equally as miffed as some of the posters here.

What to do though ? They tried something new here , if the warning said this NPC has 7 hidden quests do not dismiss him if you haven't done him well then they wouldn't be hidden quests anymore. They did give a big red warning but clearly enough people have mis-interpreted the warning to highlight a possible issue with the instructions but how much should it be scripted/spoon fed then ?

There isn't even a title for the deed though, is this really the issue that has caused the most angst with ROI? *cough* Pit of Iron I'm looking at you.

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The reason there is no title, is that this deed was added specifically to allow people to have a checklist of the quests.

Playing LotRO for more than 4 years now, this deed is the worst thing I've ever seen in this game.
It really made me upset to realise I will never be able to complete it and I stopped playing and leveling for a few days .
This can't be a developers intention.

There also might be a meta-deed one day including "tracking an old goat".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by whheydt

Finally...a rewarding experience for those of us who like to actually pay attention to the game, read the quest text, and savor the plot lines....

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

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I'm thankful I was on my Guardian- point in fact it bugged out for me. It didn't even offer me all the quests- my last one "Orc Mischief" didn't even show up as an active quest when I spoke to the npc. It allowed me to complete it, but never offered anything more. Still- my guardian already has 12 for 'Honesty'... I pray the bugs are worked out before my other toons get that far.

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Originally Posted by Peluna

Playing LotRO for more than 4 years now, this deed is the worst thing I've ever seen in this game.
It really made me upset to realise I will never be able to complete it and I stopped playing and leveling for a few days .
This can't be a developers intention.

There also might be a meta-deed one day including "tracking an old goat".

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./signed

Totally agree- it's an eye-sore for sure. If you are going to stick me with something I can never complete no matter what- give me the option to Delete it so I don't have to be constantly reminded everytime I check my log.

Hell- we'll both benefit. I can gloss over my failure to complete and I won't be reminded to how screwed up it is.

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Originally Posted by Hrodberht

The reason there is no title, is that this deed was added specifically to allow people to have a checklist of the quests.

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Which is very handy. In Annuminas you're never really sure you've gotten all the quests or not.

I like to take my time and try to complete as much deeds as possible.... but this deed was an annoyance. At the time I didn't know about the warning UNTIL I turned in the scouting quest. I thought I cancelled it but alas... it acted as if I accepted it and lost the whistle. :(

Though I was able to complete the deed later on. A kin member got the bird-whistle and I was able to tag along to finish them all. :)

I got all quests from Andreg, but before I finished Orc Mischief I hit the spot of the last quest. I did not click the shining ring of Andreg and killed the last Orc. But Andreg did not finish Orc Mischief, that one remained uncompleted although I killed all requested 10 orcs. I would like to finish Orc Mischief to get the deed.
I have read earlier postings about this topic and I noticed that the Andreg quests have created problems and dissatisfaction with players. I hope that LOTRO comes with a good solution.
Is it possible to redo the missing quest in a fellowship with someone who got the whistle? Can the other player share the missing quest with me?

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Originally Posted by sabeare

Is it possible to redo the missing quest in a fellowship with someone who got the whistle? Can the other player share the missing quest with me?

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I tried this. After turning in and losing the whistle, none of the Andregs have rings for me. I even joined a fellow that specifically had the quests I missed. There was no ring, he could not be selected by me, and the logs of the other fellow members showed that I could not complete this quest.

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Originally Posted by hucklebarry

I tried this. After turning in and losing the whistle, none of the Andregs have rings for me. I even joined a fellow that specifically had the quests I missed. There was no ring, he could not be selected by me, and the logs of the other fellow members showed that I could not complete this quest.

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Same. Went there with a kinnie last night and couldn't get the cruel traps quest of his ranger (he could naturally).

Thanks I will not try that solution. A kin member took the short route and ended up directly at the end spot and was not even able to start the other quests. Turbine has to find a solution, to many people are frustrated.

I did these today. Thankfully I am always suspicious, and upon realising Andreg had only given me one extra quest and the quest warning referred to quests, I went to investigate. You can click X on the quest window to avoid continuing.

I like this idea in theory - I like the idea of scouting with a Ranger, interacting with him and talking with him about the various things we are seeing and exploring. In reality, the map either needs to show all available quest spots or Andreg needs to say "Hey shall we look over there" or something, because even the most eagle-eyed, quest-reading player isn't going to suddenly decide to cover every square inch of the Gravenwood hoping they find the magical pinpoint for 'Hunting the Pack'.

That they can be completed with other people's pet Andregs is good, though, I'll be offering out a fellowship on future quests.

Also, I really like that part of the game where for the last 65 levels we got titles as little cheap rewards for minor tasks. Now we get no titles for slayer deeds and none for these cute side deeds. Reward please. IEXP is boring, especially when you're swamped in Kill Ten Rats quests.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by whheydt

Finally...a rewarding experience for those of us who like to actually pay attention to the game, read the quest text, and savor the plot lines....

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

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Quote for truth. All you young whippersnappers that have lost the ability and/or desire to READ are the epic fail, not the game. Our poor country, now filled with people who can only spasmodically hit the red button to get a food pellet... even though the sign above it says DON'T TOUCH THE RED BUTTON!

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Originally Posted by Tharrn

Same. Went there with a kinnie last night and couldn't get the cruel traps quest of his ranger (he could naturally).

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That's really odd. I was able to pick up and complete the quests after fellowshipping with a kin member who started the chain. I could see the ring pop up and so could she.

I did have one of the quest I was suppose to turn in but obviously couldn't before. Maybe you have to have at least one quest active even after loosing the whistle...

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Originally Posted by chazcon3

Quote for truth. All you young whippersnappers that have lost the ability and/or desire to READ are the epic fail, not the game. Our poor country, now filled with people who can only spasmodically hit the red button to get a food pellet... even though the sign above it says DON'T TOUCH The RED BUTTON!

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Don't imply this with everyone who is having a problem with this quest. It felt mis-leading even after the warning popped up when you turn it in. It would of made more sense if it had "accept" and "Decline" buttons on it instead of "continue". I thought clicking the X button would prevent it from turning in but nope. They should of put the warning in the BEGINNING of the chain.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chazcon3

Quote for truth. All you young whippersnappers that have lost the ability and/or desire to READ are the epic fail, not the game. Our poor country, now filled with people who can only spasmodically hit the red button to get a food pellet... even though the sign above it says DON'T TOUCH THE RED BUTTON!

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Quoted for delusional idiocy.

Myself and plenty of others take our time and read everything (minus every single deed when it pops up) and still did not get that we were not getting all the quests. After completing the 3 or 4 he gave me and reading all the text for them, I thought I had completed them all. The warning in no way made me think there might be more quests out there I hadn't received yet.

To be honest, I'm thinking the only way for them (Turbine) to actually get to work on this would be to just /bug it and GM report it to death until it becomes cost effective to fix it than to spend man-hours handling it.

Oh, and my experience is that GM's just do word searches and copy-pasta on these sort of tickets as well. Took me three tickets to get the same GM to stop auto-closing with his copy-pasta dialogue, and then I requested escalation to a senior GM, and said senior GM auto-closed with the same copy-pasta text.

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Originally Posted by Aprus1

To be honest, I'm thinking the only way for them (Turbine) to actually get to work on this would be to just /bug it and GM report it to death until it becomes cost effective to fix it than to spend man-hours handling it.

Oh, and my experience is that GM's just do word searches and copy-pasta on these sort of tickets as well. Took me three tickets to get the same GM to stop auto-closing with his copy-pasta dialogue, and then I requested escalation to a senior GM, and said senior GM auto-closed with the same copy-pasta text.

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Present the facts and let them determine what kind of game they want to make. Spamming an issue will lead to infraction problems before it will aid in resolution.

Once they determine a problem is not something they can help you with in game, they don't open the lines of communication up for arguments. Until they fix the way this quest works, they consider it to be a non-issue (like you wanting to argue for getting an item back that you deleted). Problems like that will always be auto-closed with the same text. The copy/paste is likely auto-filled from the ticket type when they close it as most helpdesk software supports and encourages. Hopefully they will see it as a confusing game mechanic and offer a way for others to resolve this for themselves in game in the near future.

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Originally Posted by sabeare

I got all quests from Andreg, but before I finished Orc Mischief I hit the spot of the last quest. I did not click the shining ring of Andreg and killed the last Orc. But Andreg did not finish Orc Mischief, that one remained uncompleted although I killed all requested 10 orcs. I would like to finish Orc Mischief to get the deed.

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This is exactly the same that happend to me.
I wrote a ticket but just got the standard answear.


What makes the problem with this deed even worse:
I play with the German client.
The add-on came to us in an completly unfinished status.
Many quests haven't been translated properly yet and many quests, items and NPCs are just TBD.
f.e.: earring TBD, you found a TBD, go to TBD and so on.
So many times you just feel like playin' an open beta and it can become very confusing.

In this context it's really annoying to get punished with an unfinished deed.

As some other players here I really try to complete ALL deeds in this game with my main character.
If "tracking an Old Goat" will not be fixed or changed I guess I will lose my motivation to do any more deeds at all.