Update 9: Against the Shadow and the Rohan Instance cluster

Okay, first thought on this: OMG!

Second thought: still OMG!

We will get 3 instances for 3 in the first part? Who wants this kind of playing? It´s usually so hard for the support classes!

The raiding players on my server will be in shock after this. Nothing to do until february. So they will be seeking for other games.

I can´t see any reason for this nail in the coffin! Why not releasing 1 3man, 1 6man and 1 12 man in the first part? Just 3 manned instances sound like a new Hytbold to me.

I guess, many players of all servers will say goodbye - well done!

Throwing in my two cents here....

1) So many 3 mans? I agree completely with all of the posters who have lamented the lack of 6-mans in recent times. And seriously....which non-raid instances have gotten the most mileage since Rise Of Isengard? That's right - The Foundry and The Roots Of Fangorn. These are what you always saw groups forming for.....in contrast, you rarely ever saw groups for the smaller 3 mans after the first several weeks of release. People were still running Foundry and RoF right up until RoR was released. From what I've seen, the only two 3-mans that were ever popular were The School and The Library at Tham Mirdain - and not many people do those anymore, scaled or otherwise.

2) Rohan has to be the first major LOTRO zone cluster that has no instances of its own.....which is frankly incredible and ridiculous when one considers how crammed with instances Moria was. The last two expansions (Mirkwood and Isengard) also both had a decent number of instances....but now we finally get to Rohan and there's no "endgame" group content? It's just Hytbold? Seriously? And what was the point of mounted combat and warsteeds if they have no real use outside of galloping around and annoying warbands? I suspect alot of players thought the new instance cluster would at least have group content involving warsteeds.....but based purely on the instance descriptions so far, one might assume not?

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Originally Posted by Rowan

The 12-man instances are the Battle of Dale, and could be thought of as wings of the same raid. We separated them to give context to the story as the battle proceeds over the course of a week.

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After reading this and thinking about it, I'm slightly less disappointed. Assuming they're like wings of the OD or ToO encounters and not Turtle, I think it's a pretty decent idea to not have to deal with locks of a multi-boss raid and allow greater access to the content. I just hope Tier 2 Challenges and corresponding rewards are on par with those style of raids.

Although this is all just hopeful speculation, and I will likely go into hibernation till February.

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Originally Posted by Leo_Dan

Three thoughts:

1. Excited that there should be instances to run around Christmas-time.

2. Disappointing that the larger instances wont be available until February

3. In response to the complaints about single boss raids, I honestly can't see us just fighting one boss during the Battle of Erebor. Also, Rowan's comment if you didn't already see it:



EDIT: Ok, so in terms of timeline, these instances throw everything WAY out of whack.

War of the Ring

• February 23, 3019 - First Battle of the Fords of Isen
• March 2, 3019 - Second Battle of the Fords of Isen
• March 2, 3019 - Destruction of Isengard
• March 3, 3019 - Battle of the Hornburg
• March 13, 3019 - Battle of Osgiliath
• March 15, 3019 - Battle of the Pelennor Fields
• March 17–20, 3019 - Battle of Dale
• March 25, 3019 - Battle of the Morannon
• March 27, 3019 - Lifting of the siege of Erebor

Also, Battle under the Trees of Lorien takes place March 11-22 and the Battle of Mirkwood takes place March 23-25.

Based on what has happened in game thus far, I think it is safe to assume that it must be March 1st in game.

• February 23, 3019 - first Battle of the Fords of Isen.
• February 26, 3019 - battles with orcs near Parth Galen
• February 29, 3019 - Rohirrim destroy the orcs who captured Merry and Pippin

So these instances are just skipping ahead over three weeks in terms of the story? I'm a bit confused...

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LotRO has always used the canon timeline as a guide for the Epic, leaving the huge amount of other stuff we've done to exist in that nebulous "time between important plot events" you might see in a TV series. This would be a bit more explicit about being "ahead" of the (primary?) timeline, but it's not like any realistic measure would have us out of Angmar, let alone Moria, before Aragorn's kid was old enough to adventure on his own ;)

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Originally Posted by cossieuk

We wont see much of Dale or Erebor as we are not getting any landmass just the instances.

The Battle of Erebor was on 17 March and this is a bit further along the time line than we are. We still have Helms Deep to see first, 3rd March. Aragorn taks the Paths of the Dead, 8th March and many other things before the Battle for Erebor.

This seems like cashing in on The Hobbit, not a bad thing, but lacks continuity with where we are and the fact this these instances are part of the Rohan expansion

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If my memory serves, there were 3 battles involving Dale, Erebor, and Lorien spanning several days, with the last battles occurring on 25th of March.

I am curious as to how we'll be acquiring the presumed final upgrade to the battered ring of rohan.

The tooltip: "While restored to most of its former glory, the ring feels like it is missing something..."

It doesn't make sense to me that the ring's final upgrade would depend on something obtained from an instance far away from Rohan, but maybe it will. Or that final upgrade will just never appear in the game? Or perhaps won't be obtainable until the next expansion into Western Rohan?

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Originally Posted by Haradim

LotRO has always used the canon timeline as a guide for the Epic, leaving the huge amount of other stuff we've done to exist in that nebulous "time between important plot events" you might see in a TV series. This would be a bit more explicit about being "ahead" of the (primary?) timeline, but it's not like any realistic measure would have us out of Angmar, let alone Moria, before Aragorn's kid was old enough to adventure on his own ;)

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Yes, but Rowan explicitly stated that the raid is the Battle of Dale which occurs at a specific time. This is a problem.

very excited grats guys again you have listened to your players .
And are being honest with us looking forward to polished raids thankyou.
If riders of rohan is a bench mark you have raised the bar .

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Originally Posted by Gondalen_Drake

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3 silly single boss raids, and that in february 2013? omg you cant be serious. ...

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And whats the problem with single boss raids?

Well, single Boss Raids sound to me like either the Turtle (10 Minutes an over) or like Draigoch ( too complex to code and having annoying Bugs)

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Originally Posted by Lapislazzuli

I'm seriously depressed. It's like turbine had to make a choice about what portion of their player base to displease and they picked raiders and groupers as they're the minority. Except that Rohan is a solo heavy expansion already and this way we get cut off entirely until February.

It's not about being hardcore, it's about playing (and enjoying a challenge) with friends and kinmates. This is a MMORPG after all, we're supposed to play together, if I wanted to play solo there's a billion better games out there.

What should our events look like until Feb? Gather up and then split in 3 man groups, hoping we have enough healers and tanks? We want to play together, like, you know, in a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER game.

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My thoughts exactly.

This sucks!

THREE 3-man instances? I hate those! Only one 6-man instance?!
All raids have single boss?!
No ror themed instances/raids?

Again: this sucks!

I already have legendary RoR so I'm going to stay and play with those instances/raids, but after that I'm gone!!! This game is a disappointment after a disappointment.

Any news whever or not Tarnished symbols will be available from skirmish camps ?

Relying on LoL-boxes from Bugud and skraids isn't really something I want to do for the next 3 months ...

Dear Turbine.

My raiding kin has been sitting on its hands since the RoR expansion, expecting a 12 man raid in December. I’m sorry to say, many of use feel Turbine has failed after reading this news.

Here’s some advice for the next time you plan this;

RoR could have waited. Mounted combat wasn’t that special. You could have released a Hobbit themed instance cluster with the movie release in Dec. Which we would have paid for and this would have given raiders more time in the Isengard 12 man. THEN released RoR in Feb and an RoR themed instance cluster in the summer of 2013. Which we would have paid for as well.

I don’t know how I’m going to get my raiders back from GW2, Halo, CoD. Western Rohan Better ROCK IT. Either go big or go home.

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Originally Posted by Lothirieth

No, Draigoch was not about right. It was far too easy. Casual kins completed it fairly fast.

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It was too easy for regular raiders. Not too easy for a lot of PUGs though. I have seen it wipe, even relatively late in the year. If it was "too easy" how could there possibly be wipes? The answer is that not every player is the same. Sure, it only takes 2 people in the raid to know what they're doing, but it can still go wrong.

And when I have been in it many times, most of the players there seem to be having a lot of fun. Early on in the year it was mostly regular raiders getting more stuff, then they moved on to Isengard for the most part. After all the normal raiders left though it changed a lot, people started showing up to have funb. Many players stopped gearing up after getting Draigoch set, they were never going to do Isengard and get better stuff, but they still showed up after that point because they had fun!

When you say "casual kins" you mean kins with enough players to get together to run it together, presumably I think kins that actually do raids or instances together. To me a casual kinship is one that does not do raids or instances together normally, so it would have to have maybe 50 active members to be able to get a Draigoch group together (12 people, not the 6 or 7 person runs).

Of course it is too easy for some people. So what? Those people can move on to the tough stuff. We should never judge difficulty of content based upon what the top tier of players think.

With only the 3 men being released before 2013 looks like my healer will be much more desired than my burg :/

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Originally Posted by Peidolas

For me the main problem isnt about the single-boss raids its more about the fact that there is only one 6-man instance coming!

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Ya, that's a bit disappointing. Those tend to be the easiest to get a group together for. 3-mans overall are too hard and/or too dependent upon having the right group makeup. And 12-person is either a full raid too difficult, or easy enough but too hard to get a full group together (especially after the regular raiders have geared up and moved on).

However Isengard only had one 6 person. I wish they had two, and they eventually did (though roots is hard enough I don't even like doing it at level 85, though foundry is a blast).

I didn't do the earlier 6mans that much at the time, as they felt either too hard or players insisted on silly challenge modes or players were picky about gearing up. I think Isengard changed things up a bit because you could get decent gear a bit easier than in earlier expansions.

on the cluster I feel only one negative
content less than Isengard
would make Ettenmoors open to all

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Originally Posted by Hiren

1) At least we get something new to do besides the boring, monotonous Hytbold rebuilding "challenge".

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Don't forget skirmish raids and scaled instances. Sadly skirmish raids seem to have died down for some reason, I still need many marks/medallions and I'd rather do the skraid than solo them.

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2) The upcoming single-boss "raids". Let me be clear: Keep it simple! Your motivation to build up an intense single-boss lair encounter failed uttermost with Draigoch being bugged as hell and broken still today. Keep it simple, keep it safe.

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And don't be too difficult like Watcher was. That required a long time to gear up, then a long time to learn the fights, and casual players really were locked out of doing that completely.

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What in the name of Elbereth has Erebor and the Lonely Mouintain to do with Riders of Rohan????

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Not much, but why does it have to be Rohan? You say you want Rohan and that's fair, but remember that players have been asking for Erebor and other stuff from The Hobbit for a few years now, other players have been predicting Turbine would be foolish if they didn't have any Hobbit movie tie in, etc.

Not very excited about the 3 mans only because I've always had trouble getting into 3 mans with my burglar main. Most of my unfinished deeds are in 3 man instances. :( I'm more excited for the raids. I love lair raids that can be completed in one sitting. The super long raids that take multiple gaming sessions to complete usually end in me never seeing the complete raid.

Are the raids like turtle and draig where there are no trash pulls? Or is it like a big raid that is split into 3 parts?

I'm happy that in this case, Turbine has given us some forewarning...one of the things promised again and again to us since F2P was introduced. Thank you for giving us an update including at least a general timeframe. I, for one, am okay with delays when updates give us some hopeful reasons to wait. Thanks for that.

As for the updates, I'm glad there will be a tie in, but I want landscape, too...not just instances. I want those areas developed and I fear that they are getting this treatment and will be overlooked. Is that the case? I won't hold my breath for that information, though I'd like to at least hear its on some kind of road map.

Just throwing my two coppers in here and forgive me if someone already made this point as I have not had the time or patience to read every single response to this post. From what I have read, there are people upset with the concept of three single boss raids. It may be well to remember that Barad Guldur was in essence, three single boss raids. Granted, you had to do them in order but they still each had their own instance (that is to say, you entered doors after each boss that took you to a new area), their own trash mobs, and one boss fight each.

Many here are leaping to the conclusion that these new raids are "Lair Raids" a la the Turtle or Watcher or Draigoch. While it's true that nothing Turbine has said excludes that possibility, they have also said nothing that confirms it. Something described as a single boss raid could have trash mobs or it might not. Personally I would like to see one of the raids be a lair raid but with some pre-fight mechanics like we saw in Draigoch. It would be interesting if one of them had a gauntlet fight like the first wing of BG. At least one, in my opinion, must have traditional (albeit with new mechanics and such) trash mob pulls leading to the boss. Three single boss raids all with trash pulls would be fine too but three lair raids with no trash is just gonna make people angry and the hardcore raiders will find another game to invest in if they haven't already.

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Originally Posted by Lendas

HEY DRAMA LAMAS, GUESS WHAT?
NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU SAY YOUR QUITTING
YOUR STILL HERE AFTER SAYING IT FOR THE PAST 3 X PACS


whatever happened to patience and moderation? Im sure for any casual player there is more than enough content to last you through to the next instance cluster/update.

and there's always the ettenmoors.... constant action always!

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LoL what lendas said.
You are still playing, so why complain saying that you have given up hope when you still play?
Why does every think so badly.
Smaug fight, i guarantee that it won't be in a giant cave like draigoch since he died outside. The fight maybe outside with players killing him and whatever.
The other 2 raids, ppl think! this can actually be a taste/test of what the Battle of the Hornburg is going to be. To play it safe, they may even be making raid with the taste of Helms Deep.
Battle of Erebor, don't this sounds like a seige similar to what Helms Deep is going to be?
Now here is the question: Would you rather do a raid with ridiculous amount of bugs to the point where it ain't fun or wait a bit longer for bug to not happen a lot and still have fun?-and- We waited 9 months for Rohan to come, why can't you wait for another 3 months? There is always something to turn to you know, it's call real life and other games.

Regardless, at least we got something to do while we wait for the raids.
Hopefully there well be a new armor set specifically rewarded by the 3 mans. And Hopefully there are new currencies to use for new things say steed cos? (off-topic)

Aside from it being partially delayed it's pretty much the same thing we got for Isengard. Three 3-mans, one 6-man and a multi-wing raid with one boss at the end of each wing (not counting Draigoch).

I'm pretty excited that we'll get to see the Lonely Mountain! I just wish we'd get a region for the area at some point but my feeling is this is the extend they'll handle "side areas". As others have said though, I hope this does not impact the updates we normally get in the first half of the year.

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Originally Posted by Sapience

When we made the decision to delay the release of the Rider’s of Rohan expansion, we also made it clear that we would still honor our commitment to release the instances this year. Because of the delay in shipping Rohan, development time for the year was obviously reduced. This left us two options; either delay the entire instance cluster until 2013, or release those instances we felt could be completed with the highest degree of polish in December and delay the others until they are ready (currently expected to be February).

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I find it revealing that (according to Sapience) actually following through on the commitment ("we made it clear"...lol) to release the content on time was never even considered. Content which people had paid for in advance with a clearly advertised delivery date, I might add.

What about the option of committing additional resources to make up for your failure to deliver the expansion itself on time?

Instead you cut back on developers and renege on a "commitment" that there was apparently never any intention of honoring from the moment it was made.

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Originally Posted by lioheart

...You are still playing, so why complain saying that you have given up hope when you still play?...

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Because i got a Lifetime Sub, and im lookin into lotro whenever somethin new arrives. nevertheless , for me and for many others this " instance cluster" is nothing but a heap of senseless, brainless fast programming dung.

i got no intrest in mirkwood or misty mountain instances these areas are beyond me 2 years ago. there will be allways those type of players who could be send into a hello kitty instance and they would still love it ... think about it ;-)

we in germany got a saying " small ghosts are easily entertained"

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Originally Posted by Eartholloth

Gotta love the drama around here.... :rollseyes:

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But the popcorn is good! :)

This looks good. Seven instances surpasses expectations. I have some sympathy for the raiders for reasons already stated. On the other hand, I've been listening to moaning about Draigoch bugs for a year now, so it seems hypocritical to complain that the raids aren't coming out before they are ready. It takes a lot of work and debugging to make them. And surely more can be counted on than three more turtles.

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Originally Posted by Silverangel

This looks good. Seven instances surpasses expectations. I have some sympathy for the raiders for reasons already stated. On the other hand, I've been listening to moaning about Draigoch bugs for a year now, so it seems hypocritical to complain that the raids aren't coming out before they are ready. It takes a lot of work and debugging to make them. And surely more can be counted on than three more turtles.

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RoR was presold with the IC in July , now we get 3 3 man and the rest in the next year... sorry we gave them money they didnt or wont deliver what they promised. we have all rights to complain!

Overall happy we finally have some news.

just why couldnt we have had

2 times 3 man instances

2 times 6 man instances

2 times single boss raids

1 times multi boss raid

Can it be that hard to have expanded one 3 man idea into a decent 6 man one?

As for the 3 raids we have we all assume single boss means lair raid (dragon vile maw) but it is still possible it means a single raid with only a complettion lock doesnt mean we cant have one that has multiple trash fights with a sub boss or two..

ideally given the three raids we have that is what i would like to see 1 raid with plenty of trash lots of tactics.

1 raid like vile maw. challanging

1 raid like filikul or dragon that can become tank and spank

The more I read it, the more these raids simply sound like cheesy skirm raids. Please tell me they're at least somewhat challenging, the mechanics in RoI were basic enough for a two year old, and one fight was so faceroll-ishly easy that one "raiding" kin on Gladden literally spent every week running alt runs of lightning t2 just to hoard first ages, never trying anything harder because they didn't need to.

Stop catering to lazy people. Or, if you are gonna do it anyways, at least give SOME cake to the people who want a challenge (hint: not an impossible fight with broken mechanics). Please, please, PLEASE don't slap together a half-hearted "raid" that any 12 goons can do by simply getting together and pushing through to victory. That's not a raid. It just insults those of us who desire a tough victory, something actually worthwhile.

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Originally Posted by Lestache

Purely by population numbers, it's probably not worth it to Turbine to develop content for that small group of people, but Turbine has done so in the past and those of us in that group always hold on to the hope (perhaps futilely) that Turbine will continue to do so.

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There were at least 115 kinships raiding Orthanc and posting in the progression thread. Probably at least 20 players per kinship. I'm sure there were more raiding and not posting. I know not everyone is progression raiding, but virtually everyone seems to be wearing raid gear from T1 pugs. Most raiders that I know also do just about everything else the non-raiders do.

I hear what your saying, I'm just hoping there is some tracking statistic that shows it's not true.

It would have been, frankly, absurd to not try to take advantage of the upcoming movie. Even if it does poorly it will still bring more customers here.

But this renders mounted combat a gimmick. No big deal for many or even most, I imagine. Yet for those of us who hoped mounted combat would represent a future direction for the game, it's the end of the road. Either that or be demoted to foot soldiers once more, alas.

sounds like those who cant use their warsteeds properly are rejoicing. *rolleyes*

Hey guys. Moving away from the clusters a minute, i have to know what exactly is going to happen with western rohan? Someone mentioned the word exapnsion with that? Surely not, to my understanding all of rohan is supposed to be one big expansion yes, and that the whole thing is just too big to release all in one go. So when is western rohan coming, in December, or in Feburary?

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Originally Posted by Pickle444

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Not to be mean, but this game has proven, time and time again, that it is catering to the Bozos that play and not to the serious gamer.

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Yikes! Not to be mean, but you might want to count to 10 before hitting 'send'.

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Originally Posted by Lohi

It was too easy for regular raiders. Not too easy for a lot of PUGs though.

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I disagree. Sure pugs can wipe at it, but pugs have been quite successful running it, unlike Saruman T1 or ToO T2. Aside from T1, I do not think a raid's difficulty should be based on what a pug could do.

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When you say "casual kins" you mean kins with enough players to get together to run it together, presumably I think kins that actually do raids or instances together.

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I'm thinking of one that takes a while to get ToO T1 done.. quite a while on Saruman (if they ever did.. I'm not sure) and has never been able to complete a ToO T2 wing, that raids together a couple times a month if they can pull the numbers together.

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We should never judge difficulty of content based upon what the top tier of players think.

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Which I wasn't doing regarding Draigoch.

I just want some Rohan related Instances with entrances in Ost-Emnet, thats what i paid for when i bought the Rohan Addon.

Instances related to The Hobbit Movie are ok, but thats not what i ordered, when i bought the Addon. Those announced Instances could have been another upgrade you could buy with Points or something, that would be great .. but not as part of the Rohan Addon..

Now i feel betrayed.. cause i get some hobbit instances instead of rohan instances for my addon payment .. and when rohan instances will show up somewhen later, i will likely have to pay again for them..

very sad news, not only a delay but not even a real raid.

I love where were going to story-wise but...

1 6man and 3 raids?

I really hope you bring another instance & raid cluster with a new area and not bring an expansion for autumn.

This is wonderful news.

People complaining about instances raids :

1) There are those that complain about the 12 instances have a single boss. They complain because they'll be easy and boring.
They've tested them and they know.
2) People complaining about 3 man instances. They're saying "We will get 3 instances for 3 in the first part? Who wants this kind of playing? It´s usually so hard for the support classes!" (this is an exact post a few posts before me). So they're too hard for them and they want something easier.
This kind of contrasts the 1st complain where people want difficult instances.
Those people also play-tested the new stuff and they know.
3) We got people that hate the idea of Turbine bringing us 3 small fellowship instances before on December.
4) We got people that hate the idea of Turbine bringing us new instances at all because it's not Rohan-based. Yet if they were Rohan based and had mounted combat, people would complain before the instances were released cause we would surely get laggy instances (just cause of the mounted combat). This would even be before they've tested those instances.

The facts now :

Most of them were raging cause we didn't have an announcement for the new instances. Announcement is here. Moaning mostly based on predictions.

Turbine has been working on Mounted Combat for years. And they claim there's much more stuff to improve. They're also working on the server issues with the next update coming at November 28th. So yes. Whether you want it or not they don't have people working only for Instances and New Content. They also have people working on bugs and stuff that'a already there. And hopefully on scaling the instances?

Moaning like little kids about stuff that's not even here and you haven't played, is just dumb. People already putting down the new instances saying it will be &&&& without even playing them - without even seeing a single screenshot...

At least up until now. So relax.

I love all the whiners, obviously most of them replying to this post have never had any business experience. Turbine had made the decision to delay RoR instead of rushing it like any other MMO that broke down(swtor launch) because they knew it wasnt ready. A result of that was delaying the IC, which they are doing everything they can to at least give us the 3mans next month.

I have alot against the way LOTRO has turned out over the years, I hate the turbine store and wish it a horrible death, but from a business point of view it makes money and it is ALL ABOUT THE MONEY in any business. Rohan is beautiful and I'm glad they are delaying half the instances til they are ready. So those that keep giving Turbine all the hate about how they run the game, I guarantee you if any other company had the LOTR/Hobbit license they wouldnt have given us half the badassness of Middle-Earth as Turbine has.

Keep up the good work guys

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Originally Posted by Vincent_Price

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Moaning like little kids about stuff that's not even here and you haven't played, is just dumb. People already putting down the new instances saying it will be &&&& without even playing them - without even seeing a single screenshot...

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People are smarter than you think. Some posters wanted a multi-boss raid, and did not get it. Also, the game was designed for full fellowships. If you have a 3 man, you cannot have tank, healer, DPS, and support. Someone is left out. Like many other said, people don't run 3 mans very much.

My own thoughts on the IC:
if the 3 raids are like wings of 1 raid (as Rowan or someone said), then basically the IC just has one raid. So in reality it is smaller than they want it to appear.

Part 1 RoR IC = 3 3-mans
Part 2 IC = 1 6-man and 1 12-man raid.

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Originally Posted by Armaius

---and there was also the matter of Gladden Fields, which was labelled like it was a map that wasn't in the game yet.

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What's more, in Lórien there's a gap in the northern hills, just below the Gladden Fields... but you can't get through it yet, because there are some boulders there. I love finding the possible 'gateways' to new areas! :p

Thank you, Sapience and Rowan, for all the info!

The least Turbine could do was make at least 1 raid to satisfy the raiding kinships that keep this game alive.

They advertised Rohan as biggest expansion ever and now we get only 1 6-man and 3 stupid 3-man instances. But at least we know now, why they did not announce this earlier, because noone would have bought this biggest no-content expansion ever.

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Originally Posted by Pickle444

Not to be mean, but this game has proven, time and time again, that it is catering to the Bozos that play and not to the serious gamer.

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I don't have factual numbers to back this up but I guess the "Bozos" outnumber those adhearing to your playstyle (and mine for that matter) by 10:1 at the least. In fact 100:1 may be a more likely ratio. Now, if you're willing to spend $100 on the game each year but those 100 people only spend $10 then which group do you think Turbine is most likely to cater to?

I'm affraid this game is so much more "their" game than it is "ours" :) but that's OK as long as I get my corner (difficult raid content) to play with.

so... this game is dying... back to GW2 and SWTOR...? all this announcement did is cause me to lose more faith in LOTRO, my favorite MMO...

Raiders want challenging encounters, casuals don't want to be locked out from seeing Erebor and Dale.

Well...isn't that exactly why there are tier 1 and 2 levels of instances? Make t2 cm hard, please the raiders. Casuals can use t1 to experience the story. But please, no challenge mode should be puggable...instead it should be true to its name and be a challenge.

I'm quite happy with this scheme, but even as a very casual player I'd say that 2x3 man plus 1x6 man as a final instance would be better solution. And for the raiding guys it would be more interesting to get maybe just two raids, but one of them being multi-boss one.

But what I'd really, really want to see is gradual transition of majority of instances to scalable ones. Some small ones do not have sense to be fully scalable (like Goblin Thrown Room), but there are a lot if great instances (and raids like Rift) that are not run at all! As nowadays there are not many new players who do not rush to max level (and guys doing nth alt are of course interested in straightforward levelling), it's nearly impossible to find fellows to play mid-level 3-mans or 6-mans. As for 3-mans I usually solo them with my champ, just when I'm a little bit higher level (or in case of some public instances like goblin town I soloed whole, except the throne room - will try in the next few days if the final is also possible for determined champ :D ). It still is fun cause the challenge is still there (landscape is really easy for me atm), but no ridiculous one-shooting - such soloing really taught me how to optimize skill rotation, when to use long cooldown skills and what consumables are out there to help me survive. On the other hand 6-mans are not possible to solo until you really overlevel an instance, and then it's not fun anymore, just doing the deeds. Such soloing is fun because you can see the new instance, earn some virtue levels through the deeds, grab some cosmetic gear/housing trophies, but the actual gear you get is useless... That is something which takes large part of fun and purpose of instances - proper rewards are core of grouping for beating hard content!
Also, not every instance is soloable even if 30 levels above because of mechanics which just enforces presence of more than one player and I don't think one can solo Rift even if 85 in Hytbold armour and optimal LI/jewellery.
So please Turbine devs, make 1-2 instances scalable every time you release and numbered update. I bet even some raiders have missed a few instances and for other players it will be more elasticity to be able do an instance maybe some levels after its first available to them but adjustable to their current state of character development and get some cool gear they can use.

I'm starting to believe that Turbine doesn't want us players to play their game. They just keep disappointing a huge amount of players. Well it's possible that they don't realise what players of the endgame really want. Well here it is:

- Less 3-Mans
- More 6-Mans
- At least one Multi-Boss-Raid

It's actually that simple. Yeah.

-------

About bringing content only when it's ready: That's right. Better bring stuff with as little bugs as possible. But... If you create a new level-cap you just have to bring enough content to go with it. You can't just make people wait. That's mockery of all the players that actually want to do something. Waiting would have been fine with me. But I would have preferred to wait for Rohan completely until it has enough content for an acceptable endgame. Even if it was until next year.

I'm disappointed.

I expected ROHAN instances not Hobbit-themed.

I'm not too worried about the normal moaners and groners...



Draigoch is still bugged yet you expect to have a bug free Smaug Raid? :'(

Atleast its not a mounted raid...

As long as there are no game breaking bugs i am happy we are getting something. Just make the raids like The Watcher back in MoM and i will be happy.

On a side note, fix PvMP.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vandervahn

And whats the problem with single boss raids?

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If they can all be completed in a couple of hours, or, if we're to go on history, the itemization is &&&&. Also saying that they had to break them into single instances for "story telling" reasons is just absurd. I suppose BG, Rift, DN and OD were all really bad at telling the story. Not to mention ToO, the story was impossible to follow.
Also, if we are to look at RoR, their definition of "raid" is slightly skewed. No matter how you look at it Bugud is NOT a raid. :p
I hope I'm wrong, but I fear I'm not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lohi

Don't forget skirmish raids and scaled instances. Sadly skirmish raids seem to have died down for some reason, I still need many marks/medallions and I'd rather do the skraid than solo them.

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They've died because quite a few of us who were around for last years grind have racked up 300+ raid skirmishes in less than a year. There's only so many times you can d them before they get boring. But I suppose that's what we have to look forward to until february.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vincent_Price

1) There are those that complain about the 12 instances have a single boss. They complain because they'll be easy and boring.
They've tested them and they know.
2) People complaining about 3 man instances. They're saying "We will get 3 instances for 3 in the first part? Who wants this kind of playing? It´s usually so hard for the support classes!" (this is an exact post a few posts before me). So they're too hard for them and they want something easier.
This kind of contrasts the 1st complain where people want difficult instances.
Those people also play-tested the new stuff and they know.
3) We got people that hate the idea of Turbine bringing us 3 small fellowship instances before on December.
4) We got people that hate the idea of Turbine bringing us new instances at all because it's not Rohan-based. Yet if they were Rohan based and had mounted combat, people would complain before the instances were released cause we would surely get laggy instances (just cause of the mounted combat). This would even be before they've tested those instances.

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1. The difficulty of saingle raid bosses has been... lacking lately. draigoch was a walk in the park with a good leader /i.e. one who know what to do) and is very forgiving on mistakes. Bugud is.... not a raidboss at all, although classified as such. VM was interesting and required skill on level, but after that we've recieved easier and easier single-boss raids. There's also the question of itemization, which has been less than stellar as well. Not to mention that it is being released waaaaay after the xpac...
2. With a three-man you're more constrained with THT than in any other setting. This leaves the support classes in a bad spot since they are not top in any aspect. From what I can see in this thread people are not complaining that 3-man are too hard but that certain classes are more or less left out from them since they cannot properly fill a role. Also the gear from 3-men is usually quite bad apart from one or two pieces. Once you have those pieces, no more reason to run the instance.
3. Yes. See number 2 as well as the fact that it took 5½ months for them to give us this information.
4. You can do RoR themed instances without MC. How about an attack on e.g. Eaworth or Snowbourn? The elimination of an orc-camp? There's LOADS of possibilities

One aspect that no one has touched so far is the aspect that quite a few of those evil hardcore show-off raiders (yes, I'm one of thsoe evil ahrd-core raiders that only do raids to show off my gear... which is also the reason i usually am on anon) also do quite a few pug runs for different things. So if the evil hardcore population is reduced the amount of pug runs could also be reduced.
Personally I'm quite happy about the turn of events and this information. Was considering getting some more TP from the store but now I don't have to. I now also have time to spend on other things... and I'm not even missing out on anything. Frankly I'm not surprised by the news. Turbine's art department is among the best I've seen but their content and group content department *shakes head and walks away*


PS. Personally I preferred the BG way of making challenges (also the trash in BG served a purpose and it was also an accomplishment getting past it). no t1/t2 but certain criteria that had to be met to get the challange (hm) done. decide depending on how the group performs.

PPS. Bye bye raiding kins

I find this a little disappointing.. The raid kins are falling apart. I know they need to get the game working properly but really...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kril

There are some Skirms that are completely seperate from the world map (Icy Crevase/Storm of Methedras) as well... The initial 3 3-mans however, will all have world map equivalents as well (2x MM, 1x Mirkwood), and the tie in COULD be 'Flight to Dale' (DOH! Maybe I was right about the eagles!!! :( ) being MC from eastern MM through Mirkwood bringing us to Dale for the final two?

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I can say u that icy carvesse is in forochel and very easy to find the place. The storm on mathedras is also in game between gravenwod (dunland) and isengard on the mountains...

So basically they made a great part of that place. (yes they made every raid in landscape, but u can play them only in layers coz they have gates). The only sad thing in this is that u will never see it coz our loved FIX ME: unassigned ;) surely they wil add that part of game later...

Can't say I'm surprised. Oh well, I am actually a bit surprised, because while I didn't expect Turbine will honor their first announcement (instance cluster including raid "later that year"), I thought they'll have no more than month delay. Longer delay only proves lack of respect towards players. It's getting worse and worse, the delays are longer and they give us silly "time fillers" like 44 days of doing dailies or stupid skirmishes, which were done for hundreds of times by everyone (personally I refuse to call skirmish raids a proper content) and people are getting sick of them. Also I don't expect much of new raids. They're single bosses lairs and, like it was already mentioned, they'll be easy most likely (like Watcher, Turtle and Draigoch). I'm so glad, that I didn't spend any money on Rohan, at least I don't feel cheated now. But at the same time I feel really sorry for people, who bought RoR, especially the more expensive editions. Turbine is more and more insolent. I'm lucky to be a lifetime subscriber, so I get my 500 pts each months, so I can spend it for expansions and instance packs - but if I weren't I'd quit LOTRO long ago. I'll check those new raids of course, if we'll get them eventually... well, I hope I'll be able to do that, if my kin won't fall apart, as more and more people are giving up with the game. But generally what's going on with LOTRO is very disappointing...

Really disappointed in the lack of decent endgame content for groups. As many others have said, gone are the glory days of GROUP content in Moria and GROUP content in Mirkwood.

Wonder how long it will take for wardens to work out how to solo the on-level 3 mans :/ . Which, if you ask me, should be impossible to be solo'd on level.

Fantastic news for casual players without the long hours needed to crack and then farm multiboss raids. For the hardcore raiders, well, I guess Turbine has done their calculations and they don't think hardcore raiders are a very big % of the paying playerbase, or they gamble that most of them will stay and pay after they see the new raids.

Perhaps Turbine knows more than they can tell.

Oh, and as a side note: I'm soooo glad I didn't preorder Rohan!

What I don´t understand, is why only 3 mans now and all 6/12 mans later?

I put my hope into the words of Sapience and Rowan who both said "single boss raids" and not "lair raids". I hope we see a BG-like raid, just in 3 pieces, with hard trash and exciting boss fights.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bastiat1

There were at least 115 kinships raiding Orthanc and posting in the progression thread. Probably at least 20 players per kinship. I'm sure there were more raiding and not posting. I know not everyone is progression raiding, but virtually everyone seems to be wearing raid gear from T1 pugs. Most raiders that I know also do just about everything else the non-raiders do.

I hear what your saying, I'm just hoping there is some tracking statistic that shows it's not true.

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I hope that you're right.

Speaking of progression threads: a friend jokingly asked if we should start a 3-man progression thread to tide us over until February. :)

Having slept, I can finally post whilst I'm fully functional.

Goods:
- Finally getting some news
- Getting at least some of the instances sooner rather than later.
- Immediate re-assurance that these instances will all be included in the RoR price.

Bad:
- A 2 month delay on releasing the rest, blaming a 1 month delay on the expansion.
- 1 raid being cut up and marketed as 3 x 1 boss raids (confirmed by Rowan), presumably to make it look like more and hopefully calm some people.
- Pretty much the same size cluster as RoI but split over a longer duration.
- A possible attempt at masking a lack of content in Feb by using the second half of the IC (hopefully, we'll get an additional update at that time and the IC won't be seen as suitable alone).
- Themes for the IC are completely inappropriate to the expansion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lendas

HEY DRAMA LAMAS, GUESS WHAT?
NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU SAY YOUR QUITTING
YOUR STILL HERE AFTER SAYING IT FOR THE PAST 3 X PACS


whatever happened to patience and moderation? Im sure for any casual player there is more than enough content to last you through to the next instance cluster/update.

and there's always the ettenmoors.... constant action always!

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Lol sorry that worths good reputation ;)
The more people say that though i think are kids and they have an excuse...
Most are angry about lack of content. I suppose all of them have completed Saruman T2? Or is it to easy now... :p If it is let me see you try.
You are angry because they are not in Rohan? What exactly you want? Recapture of Amon Hen? You have Edoras coming up dunharrow, Helms deep and Fangron! These are nice places to do a raid. AS far as legit don't remember anytime signing for Instances on Rohan. Just Instances.
So explain me how it works? You want a raid for get a new gear? (cause we just did some new gear and more will come up)
Or you want it to have something hard to complete?A challenge? That reminds me... how many in here complete Saruman T2 again??

I am happy we ll get there to see these areas and dont whine about how they think. OF course they ll try and throw the net to find more people from the hobbit go to the cinemas. People which will bring money to the game and will be able to revive it and have actually people to go to raid ( for us low population servers)!! Rohan content is not finish so stop being like the guy above said. Lets hope their trick actually works and see more people on game and faster updates with them (Fixes,landscapes, IC)

What i understand though is the complains on delay. To that i am with you guys cause you cant buy a product on June when you were promised it for December and get it on February. but to be honest there i dont think its Turbines fault. I think this how fast they can go! What can you do...Orthanc ,Skirmish raids ,Hytbold and new 3 man has to hold us for the next 2 months. patience... other games has it worse on end game content.

P.S cause i am a fan here still waiting if there is a possibility to see these areas as landscapes one days.If someone can answer this it would be great.

I'd like to say that I do like Riders of Rohan so far. Sure, it may be a little buggy, but I've throughly enjoyed exploring the vast plains. Rohan is, in my opinion, the most beautiful landscape yet, not to mention the amazing music and the nice lore.

HOWEVER --

Turbine is sorely mistaken if they believe that deviating from their original plan and capitalizing on the the Hobbit Movie hype will be better in the long run than to pay a little more attention to the end-game community. The actual number of people who see the movie and become a DEDICATED LoTRO player is, in reality, not that high at all. Sure, they might see what LoTRO is all about, but the chances that they will stick out the grind to 85 and beyond in this age of a plethora of MMOs to choose from? Low. Very, very low.

In business school, we are often taught that a loyal customer is FAR more valuable than anything else. Speaking as an avid raider myself - I spend a lot of money on this game - Expansion Packs, VIP, TP Points for all sorts of things (LIs, P2W Buffs, Alts, etc). Heck, I TRANSFERRED SERVERS in hopes of being in an enviroment that offers better end-game raiding. It's no coincidence that end-game raiding kins have the most loyal customers; keeping toons at a raid-ready caliber takes a substantial amount of time and commitment.

It is clear that this revealing of the new instances has come up short. Short not in terms of paltry content - 3 part 12-man, 6-man, 3 3-man is plenty and all seem very interesting - but rather, the timing of this content. Promoting the jolly awesome benefits of preordering in July when the main raid (12-man) instances won't actually be released until at least SEVEN months later is, at best, a cheap business tactic. Had you added the caveat:

***Raid won't be released until NEXT YEAR*** ,

no serious end-gamer would preorder. But what Turbine has done is exactly this, just drawn out longer so that they can release the same amount of content in the same amount of time, while still managing to leech off of us so called "loyal players." Let's be honest, if you weren't loyal, there's no way you would drop $60.00 on an expansion.

I stress this 12-man timing because Raiding Kinships exist to clear end-game RAID content. You give us half a year off - we're going to play other games. Skirm raids, Moors, trivial non-onlevel content and daily grinds can only satisify you as much as a late night chinese food run. And upon playing other games, there's a pretty good chance that we won't come back. This can be succinctly summized in the diagram below:


http://i.imgur.com/d4YjQ.png


As an avid LoTR fan, I'm going to say that I probably will never quit this game. I'll always come back. I postulate that this is true for a lot of end-gamers: we're just too hooked. Can I be disappointed? Absolutely. Might I take an extended break? Sure. But with every new expansion, I'll come back and check it out. And if Turbine just so happens to hit the nail on the head, you can bet that I'll be dropping as much money on this game as it takes to accomplish what I like to do at the end-game level. Why? Because the satisfaction of beating on-level challenging content is worth it. But for the Love of God, Turbine, give me some solid reasons to throw my money at you!

An extraction of the Producer Letter 2011 from Aaron Campbell:
In 2012, you can expect more content that you've seen at any time since our launch in 2007.


So, what Content we got...
Great River with a few days of questing and one 6-man instance
Update 6 with the Fornost instances - One evening to run through all challenge modes and then never come back Because of the lack of loot
And then rohan with 1-4 evenings of leveling and then 5 hytbold dailys to do
And finally 3 3-man - hopefully enough to fill one more evening

So no Raid and only 1 serious instance in 2012, Yeah, i'm sure we had no better Year since 2007

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pelethor

Lol sorry that worths good reputation ;)
The more people say that though i think are kids and they have an excuse...
Most are angry about lack of content. I suppose all of them have completed Saruman T2? Or is it to easy now... :p If it is let me see you try.

---

Been there, done that.

Rohan brings no new group content. Because of the level Cap increase old content gets too easy. So what to do as a group? Nothing you can do except skirmishes. With release of Part I you can do 3 mans, not 6 mans, only 3 mans.

Bring a common group of 1 tank, 1 supporter, 1healer, 3 dd's. How many 3 mans group you will build from this 6 ? One. Nice the three other need to wait.

It's just bad. I can wait for the raid until February, but no 6man group content for over 4 month's after a expansion. That's really really bad!

As many of us expected from this thread, tons and tons of really bad feedback for Lotro and this new instance cluster. Lots of details that is written here does not refer only to the new instance package and RoR exp., but it is also accumulated discontent throughout this whole year. It is important to note that a lot of players who have written that they are very disappointed, feel-cheated and dissatisfied with this update and RoR exp. are passing the opinions of other players from their servers (friends/kins). At least i know i am, already dozens of players are playing the game less. I just hope Turbine don't sit on their ears any longer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vincent_Price

People complaining about instances raids :

1) There are those that complain about the 12 instances have a single boss. They complain because they'll be easy and boring.
They've tested them and they know.
2) People complaining about 3 man instances. They're saying "We will get 3 instances for 3 in the first part? Who wants this kind of playing? It´s usually so hard for the support classes!" (this is an exact post a few posts before me). So they're too hard for them and they want something easier.
This kind of contrasts the 1st complain where people want difficult instances.
Those people also play-tested the new stuff and they know.
3) We got people that hate the idea of Turbine bringing us 3 small fellowship instances before on December.
4) We got people that hate the idea of Turbine bringing us new instances at all because it's not Rohan-based. Yet if they were Rohan based and had mounted combat, people would complain before the instances were released cause we would surely get laggy instances (just cause of the mounted combat). This would even be before they've tested those instances.

The facts now :

Most of them were raging cause we didn't have an announcement for the new instances. Announcement is here. Moaning mostly based on predictions.

Turbine has been working on Mounted Combat for years. And they claim there's much more stuff to improve. They're also working on the server issues with the next update coming at November 28th. So yes. Whether you want it or not they don't have people working only for Instances and New Content. They also have people working on bugs and stuff that'a already there. And hopefully on scaling the instances?

Moaning like little kids about stuff that's not even here and you haven't played, is just dumb. People already putting down the new instances saying it will be &&&& without even playing them - without even seeing a single screenshot...

At least up until now. So relax.

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Well, after you were replying to my Statement (being too hard fir support classes) I want to explain further:

Its just like Burio postet above - Take this setup (Guardian, Captain, Champion, Hunter, Lore Master, Minstrel) an divide them into 2 3man groups. You will have one classical 3man Party - Guardian, Hunter an Minstrel and Champion (has to be the tank), Captain and the Lore Master.

I considered it being hard for support classes, because, they are not really needed or not helpful. It can be only done when the instance is like the Fangorn from ROI.

Ok, trying to be just a little bit positive from a position of a main toon that is a "support" class, ie raidng captain.

Peeps have said the 3 man's will be tough for support classes, well, thinking about it, this is what I'd do (with kinnies)

1) trait Ltc - need a healer and tank

2) trait LoM - need healer and dps

3) trait HoH - need tank and dps.

Yes, absolutely not as fast as the holy trinity would go, but most certainly do-able.

All support classes can do "relatively" good dps depending what they slot, but yes, no 6 man before Feb really really sucks the rally outta my cries :(

So many 'single bosses'..

Any chance for some multi-wing level cap content in 2013?

Or at the very least a 'Raid Single boss' that requires some SIGNIFICANT effort to get to the boss? (I dont mean walk in and kill it [turtle, watcher], or Minimal effort (Draigoch [quest line]+brief walk down, which can be circumvented with only half the group)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lohi

Not much, but why does it have to be Rohan? You say you want Rohan and that's fair, but remember that players have been asking for Erebor and other stuff from The Hobbit for a few years now, other players have been predicting Turbine would be foolish if they didn't have any Hobbit movie tie in, etc.

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It has to be Rohan since this is the instance cluster for the Rohan expansion.

MoM had its instance cluster in Moria
SoM had its instance cluster in Mirkwood
RoI had its instance cluster in Isengard
RoR will have its cluster in Dale, which is no where near Rohan and is not part of LOTR, but of The Hobbit.

By all means cash in on The Hobbit but why didnt they release these zones as the expansion then go to Rohan next year.

well done turbine, i think you may have just lost a load more players with that news.
no multi boss raid really! anyone missing codemasters?

i like the idea behind splitting a multiboss raid into 3 separate raids. so you have the option to choose which wing you want to do and which not.

as far as i understand it, the new raid is a 3-boss raid, in 3 wings with trash. and you could decide which one you want to kill.

that's the same (for me) as if the Tower of Orthanc raid would be splitted into 5 separated instances.

what i do not like is the leak of group playcontent till February. 3 man instance are no group content for me... thoes instances a) are to easy oder b) require a special combinations of classes, which you cant have every time availible for all you members of your kinship.

one additional problem: giving out the instances splitted on two updates reduces the content extremely. why? cause the 3-man instances are already played through so offten, that you will not play them again for a looooong time. you do not have the problem, if you have multiple instances (3 man, 6 man, 12 man) available.

you now you will have 3 3 man instance, that will be boring very fast. after that you get a 6 man instance and one multi boss raid. so the 6 man instance will be boring very fast as well (cause its the only alternative to the raid you are doing once a week).

in my opinion it would have been better to not split the instance cluster. it would only make sense if there are enough instances available.

I'm excited with the setting of the February content. Dale is cool, and it's not like we haven't been all over the place already with Dol Goldur.

I'm wary of how satisfactory 3 single-boss raids will be after expecting another wing-raid with 5+ bosses.

I'm extremely disappointed that large group content has been pushed back. The kinmates are getting restless, bored with skraids and even Helegrod. On the flip side, I do expect the 3-mans will scratch a certain itch I have. Looking forward to tanking or healing these on my captain. 3-captain runs, 3-warden runs. Amusing diversions. Maybe I'll get my LM up and main heal things. But that's all a side-show compared to raiding, for me.

I'm looking into other games, though I'm sunk pretty deep into this one as far as investment. Will probably cancel sub after I get all I want from the moors (I have pretty much everything unlocked for premium anyway) and mess around with Civ 5, Dorf Fortress, Far Cry 3, etc. Hell with Hytbold.

Must be a joke... payed 65€ for a Update without any Instanz/Raid.
And now we got 3 3er instanzes for 3 Months and then 3 12er with just 1 Boss ? :D
Unlucky that Elderscrolls online coming so late, smells like the perfect Time to stop lotro...

But hey.... we stil can rebuild Hytbold o.O

I think Turbine had one easy chance to get through this no group-content Phase. They should add good loot to the fornost Cluster. That revamp is in my opinion nice and challenging, but noone is playing it because of the lack of good loot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nevril

snip...

but also knows how to exploit data parallelism instead of function parallelism, and most of all knows the meaning of the acronym M.M.O.R.P.G. (aka MASSIVE Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game).

Ok, done.
Troll me now.

---

And I always thought that means *Many Men Online Role Playing Girls*, it seems I was wrong ;)

Wow, I'm flabbergasted, I really am.

They've worked hard for many months and made a huge time investment in order to implement a new gameplay technology. A tech that's fast, dynamic and very much fun to play (unless it lags or rubberbands, that is, but give it some time). And now, after weeks of improving our steeds and perfecting our riding skills, they tell us that this great way to play our characters won't get used at all in instanced group play in the foreseeable future?

I can only hope that down the road, there are some epic skraids, 12-man, or even 24-man raids in the pipeline. I'm thinking Battle of the Hornburg or Battle at Pelennor Fields here, all done on horseback, charging into battle at the sides of Éomer and Théoden King. Imagine circling endlessly around humungous Mûmakil, or chasing full speed after fell beasts while all around you a full-blown battle rages.

Can hardly wait. :)
But for how much longer?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mindorin

You guys are funny with "wow awesome 3 three 3 raids!!!!!" It's 3 bosses, in apparently separate instances? You do realize that OD had 6 bosses and Tower had 5 never mind BG and Rift.. Waiting so long for only 3 is pretty lame.

But at least we get to pick two of our friends to /headdesk a couple 3-mans that have nothing to do with RoR for a couple months. Why do we keep playing this game again?

Sapience do you dread bringing us this lackluster information or is this something that excites you as a player?

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BG only had 3 bosses as well. Durchest, Twins and the Lieutenant.

I don't mind 3 Lair Raids, as long as they are challenging and not all of them have trash fights. Sometimes its fun to go straight to the point and fight a lone, tough boss... More like Watcher v2.0 than Turtle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nyarin

Can hardly wait. :)
But for how much longer?

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Well, judging from the distance between raids this time around (december 2011 to at least february 2013), it's at least another 12 - 14 months till the next raid after the february RoR raids. So, february or april in 2014...

Disappointed, but not surprised, Turbine decided to create hobbit themed instances, especially after they were advertised as 'rohan ones'. With all the excitement and battles going on in rohan atm in the story, I kinda figured our characters were going to be involved in that in some way. Not capering off to the other side of the middle earth on a tangent arc.

I think its a mistake to believe the way turbine has released this expansion is Ok. I remember saying at the time, don't pre-order and spend so much real money on such little information. You don't know what you're getting for it, or when. Now I'm glad I didn't. Perhaps their instances really are suffering from severe bugs, but I rather more believe they're lining up their hobbit instances to release at the same time as the hobbit movie. I feel sorry for the people that spent £70 for the expansion, and have to wait some 6+months for their content.

Personally, I'm not too happy about the actual instances, or raids listed. I can only presume turbine are continuing down the path towards simplfying and shortening content, to please their casual players. A couple of 3mans, or 30 minute 1 boss raids are probably easier to get a group for, or do in the 1 hour online time you have in the evening, than a multi-boss adventure with locks. But since the majority of people have already paid for the instances, turbine can offer as much, or as little as it likes, they already your money.

I hope turbine are happy with converting me to a casual player. As a 'former hardcore' player, I spent real money in the store regularly. As a casual player, I play perhaps 2 hours a week, and haven't spent a single penny in 1.5 years. I won't be 'leaving' the game anytime soon, Lotro has too good a community, if not the game, to leave. But it's easy to find better alternate games, or things irl to spend your money on these days.

I was always a huge defender of Turbine and understood their problems over the last years... and I also could see the lack of money and developers behind these issues now, again.

But this does not change much, really.


The Great River and Rohan was the sign for many, that something has changed in a better direction again. And it certainly has landscape and quest wise. As a very casual player I am still not through with RoR and more than happy.


But the splitting of the IC is something that should not have happened.

And I also wonder whether it isn't a big mistake to do the Hobbit thing now... with Dale and the Lonely Mountain coming to the screens in all their splendor in a year's time (or maybe even in flashbacks in two weeks). And what bettles are those anyway? In the books they happen almost simultaniously with the Pelennor. Not that the travelling ever matched the dates given in the lore, but sending us "in between" to the Lonely Mountain kind of takes the cake. It also does not give much hope that there will be any "Eastfold" update in the spring and a West-Rohan expansion int he fall... there simply have been too many detours and now it takes forever to deliver the really interesting places. As much fun as we had along those detours.

Also... probably no MC in not even ONE instances out of 7... mistake. It must have taken so much time to create MC. It should be used now... at least as an alternative.



I really hope the quality of those instances and the roadmap for 2013 will give me more material again, to argue in the future that this game is still on a good path. But this really seems to become an argument against a growing shadow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lendas

[center][b]
HEY DRAMA LAMAS, GUESS WHAT?
NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU SAY YOUR QUITTING
YOUR STILL HERE AFTER SAYING IT FOR THE PAST 3 X PACS ]

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left already. I know I am likeabaws ^^

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sapience

This week, Update 9 will go live on the Bullroarer test server. In addition to a number of bug fixes and updates, this update will also include the first half of the Rohan instance cluster. The second half of the cluster will be released in 2013.

When we made the decision to delay the release of the Rider’s of Rohan expansion, we also made it clear that we would still honor our commitment to release the instances this year. Because of the delay in shipping Rohan, development time for the year was obviously reduced. This left us two options; either delay the entire instance cluster until 2013, or release those instances we felt could be completed with the highest degree of polish in December and delay the others until they are ready (currently expected to be February). We’ve chosen to honor our commitment as best we can with the limited time remaining in 2012 while still insuring the highest quality possible.

We want to be very clear that if you purchase the Riders of Rohan expansion, the entire instance cluster is free. You will have access to all instances listed below released as Part I in Update 9 and Part II when it releases at no additional charge. As long as you’ve purchased Rohan, you’ll get all of the instances listed.

We also want to share with you the full plan for all seven instances.

Instances shipping with Update 9: Against the Shadow

Riders of Rohan Instances (Part 1):

• Iorbar’s Peak (Misty Mountains / Stone Giants-3-man)
• Webs of the Scuttledells (Mirkwood 3-man)
• Seat of the Great Goblin (Goblintown 3-man)

Shipping in 2013 (Currently Planned for February)
Riders of Rohan Instances (Part 2):

• The Bells of Dale (6-man)
• Flight to the Lonely Mountain (12-man; single boss)
• The Fires of Smaug (12-man; single boss)
• The Battle for Erebor (12-man; single boss)

Many of you have asked if we’ll ever see the Lonely Mountain. Hopefully this gives you the answer you were looking for.

The full release notes for Update 9: Against the Shadow will be available when Bullroarer goes live.

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webs of the scuttledells i assume this is consider southern mirkwood still not northern mirkwood

Anyone can help me find a game where promises are being kept and they have an actual working GM team and Devs who communicate with their costumers? I know, they are a dying race.

Sigh, it seems they're making the same mistake they did with RoI. Three 3-mans that will go to waste and nobody will run once the single 6-man comes out and becomes another Foundry that everyone does ad infinitum.

I'm not sure where their shift to 3-mans comes from. They are fine as a distraction with interesting gimmicks thrown in, but they can never be as "meaty" as 6-mans, can't really showcase fellowship mechanics, are far more problematic to pug (given how general audience will always insist for tank+healer regardless of whether they're actually needed, thus having just one dps spot) and always give out lesser rewards given the game structure. It's very disappointing.

Also, claiming seven instances is a bit disingenuous given that we get three lair bosses. It would be like claiming RoI cluster had five raids.

Can't wait Erebor :)

Hate to say it guys, but this just doesn't cut it. I mean, it is a funny thread, but this thread is still the #1 comedy thread.

This thread says it all by itself: Turbine, your customers are not happy, you are ignoring them and that is not good.

I personally hate the 3-mans with a passion, i don't know if anyone actually likes them.

This is what happens when the care bear's win.

What's this obsession with 3 mans? If you're not a tank or healer it's a pain to get a group together, if you ARE a tank or healer it's a pain because every dps wants you to run the instance yet again. I ran the Isengard 3 mans a few times only, on some of my later alts I didn't even bother because I didn't want to hassle people to run them.

Yet I could run Foundry several times a day on any class - 6 mans just plain give more variety with classes.

Have 1x3 man and 3x6 mans. That's what people want Turbine!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lapislazzuli

I'm sad. No raids, not even a single 6 man until FEBRUARY! :(:(:(
You know, that content you've been waiting for since Rohan release, it' coming in 3 months! So in the meanwhile you can go on doing BORING dailies and running 3 mans, who cares if you don't get to play what you like, the way you like (being a SUPPORT class) until february? :mad:

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No one is forcing you to do anything. If you don't want to play the game, don't.

An Instance Cluster is never late, nor is it early. It arrives precisely when it means to...until it gets split into two halves ;)

Seriously though, once Hytbold gets rebuilt all we're left with the 3 3-mans and the same ole skraids we've been doing forever?

I wonder what the obsession is with the lair raids. It started out with The Vile Maw, also known as The Watcher or Squid. This raid requires some tactics but is not overly challenging.

There is also Draigoch's lair that I have run exactly three times and after the first time (in a 24 people raid), I was not impressed but decided to wait until I had run it with a 12 people group. I was not really impressed with Draigoch either. And lets not forget the randomly bugging out of Draigoch.

And the there is the raid I simply refuse to run anymore: Filikul, a.k.a. The Turtle. This lair raid is, to me anyway, a completely mindnumbing dull DPS race that requires no intellect at all except to switch aggro every five seconds. I loathe and despice this raid with a firy vengeance.

Now we get three more lair raids that could easily be the same as the three described above, or are more like the current Helegrod raids. Come to think of it, Tower of Orthanc also resembles this setup. Except for this time they decide to give it three seperate names. But I think that the gating will be the same.

*sigh*

Something that springs to mind: Fires of Smaug raid..... Will we actually be fighting Smaug or will he be a wight like Thorog? And will they change the spoken words of Draigoch then? :p

P.S.: Sorry for ranting. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kril

Please read the articles before you post them. They are not based on LOTRO, the issue here stems from the 2 Kabam games being released as they are 'downloadable' not physical (LoTRO was, and still is, available in a box).

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Actually, he is correct in posting these articles. If you read the court papers this suit could affect LOTRO as the complaint is also about digital rights that the Tolkien Trust believe were never sold.

Quote from the complaint:

"For example, although their limited merchandising license only gives them the right to sell tangible merchandise, defendants have developed, licensed and/or sold (and continue to develop, license and/or sell) downloadable video games based on The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit, available only by downloading and/or access via the Internet, via mobile apps, tablet apps or other similar digital distribution channels, or through other online interconnectivity such as Facebook."

You are correct in saying LOTRO is available on disc, but it is only accessible online only: you can not play it without an internet connection and expansions are download only. Then there is the fact that items sold on the store are intangible: the Tolkien Trust claim that they only sold the right to produce 'tangible' merchandise, not services and non-physical items.

Obviously, like everyone here I hope it doesn't affect LOTRO as I do love this game.

I don't like posting this here as it is negative, but I had to say something as it looked like you were telling someone off when they do actually have a valid point to make.

As for the cluster, I am really looking forward to the 3-man instances.

I often find it difficult to find/join larger instances/raids due to the times I play. They can take 1 hour+ to get the required amount people, and that frustrates me as I feel like I'm wasting time. At least I know I will be able to do the 3 man instances with friends without having to rely on finding other people.

I do however appreciate other people's frustration, but I would not personally get so upset and angry over a game as they are supposed to be fun. I know it's not ideal, but perhaps the raiders who want a new raid asap could reduce their playing time until the new raids are released in Feb? That's what I do in the gaps between new content.

I really wished for a 6-man in December. But i guess this is better than nothing. Only thing i dislike with 3-man is the lack of rewards.

If these new 3-mans will be another Library or School, than no one will run them and the effort will be wasted. No one was really running Isen 3-man for that reason, they went Foundry or RoF because that offered a noticeable reward. You can say the same for every single instance cluster. How many times did people run Warg pens compared to farming Sammath Gûl? No one ever cared about Water Wheels or Mirror Halls either.

Best IC ever was Moria, mainly due to the massive amount of creative 6-man instances. Only getting 1 and not until February is a let down. But still i'm happy something is being updated and who knows maybe the new 3-man will offer something more than 5-10 medals, T3 relics, coins and purple junk?

About the raids being "single boss" i don't really care personally. Grinding clusters of ToO-monsters for hours was never that much fun. I only did that to get armor. Prefer raids that wont take an entire evening to complete.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rawkan

No one is forcing you to do anything. If you don't want to play the game, don't.

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A whispering breeze amongst the gale, you sir win the thread.