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Been trying to get in tonight for ages, just hangs at loading then drops the connection to the server. Why are we being asked to pay for this level of user experience it's frankly not acceptable and despite assurances from SSG things seem to just get worse then slightly better then worse again ad nauseam.
Can you please prioritize the issues we are all experiencing instead of continuing to push new content that just makes things more frustrating
Please
And what i said is now 100% trueQuote:
Originally Posted by Emaldiom
I logged on to Evernight a few hours after servers was open. There was around 900 non anon people online and the rubber banding, skill delay, a minute just to speak with npcs and all kinds of other "This is way over the top and unplayable beyond any reason" lag you can think of.
Fair enough, its day 1 of expansion..everyone is playing. I logged off and couldn't be bothered (Mind you i have kept raiding since Anvil every week for hours and hours and adjusted to the lag, but this.. this is way 2 much)
I logged on day after in the morning and see around 400 people online.. and guess what. The same lag that was there yesterday is there now.. Nothing is working..i can't even talk to npcs
I've played a bunch on Shadowfax the past days and while there is barley over 70 people online there is not a single hint of lag spikes.. PLEASE for the last time have a look at Evernight and actually start doing something! OR atleast offer us a free transfer so we can spread out on different servers.. cause this.. this aint how you should do it..
Bump
Okay yeah, it's unplayable.
This thread should be on top of the forum every day.
I still don't understand how this is not an absolute priority.
I mean, obviously, it won't pay money to fix the lag, but unless you do, the money will be coming less and less.
I was considering buying Gundabad even as I am more active than in previous years, but now it's nope, 40$ for this frustrating experience? You can get a new, but mainly FUNCTIONAL game for the price of this expansion...
Guessing a lot of people bought the expansion anyway, sadly.
Starting to feel like a joke. It's not like LotRO is the FOTM game where you have to have the latest content, you can wait several months for the expansion to come to the store, and you will avoid the LAG, beta testing going on now with bugs and an unpolished LI system. And you will actually have an endgame to enjoy after that period as well (instances and raids).
Seriously, I don't understand why are people willing to pay for frustration.
Imagine raiding in the current game state, with a 7-second delay on every keypress, handing in quests for minutes, mobs not even reacting to you, then receiving hits when you are 50 meters behind them, mounting goat and looking at your char whistling from side to side for 5 seconds, rubberbanding in Rivendell... one could go on for ages.
All this in glorious 120fps so we can really appreciate how the server is screeching.
Am begging, please forget any content and ui refresh, hobbies and kinship ovehauls and get on this for real, with your whole team capacity.
Enough people accept it, and keep paying, that it will never be fixed.
Yes, I was today in raid on mid level game, so not even near Gundabad and we had lags.Quote:
Originally Posted by DKenny
Daybreak is hosting the lotro servers and everquest and everquest 2 have had severe server lag issues for years. Several times they promised to fix it or look into it and both games are still unplayable during peak hours on a lot of servers. Its been happening for so long and so often that players have come to accept its how the game works and you only see 4-5 posts a year about the lag now because players gave up. Dont get your hopes up too high for a potential fix.
Just got back to 10-20 seconds skill delay.. 10 skills queue up at same time, mobs flying around you
You are on [EN] Evernight server 53 at r2 lx257 ly741 ox20.23 oy105.33 oz896.82 h298.1. Game timestamp 455469338.750
I had to give up and log out. I literally could not move properly in Azanulbizar because my character froze for a few seconds with 2-5 seconds inbetween. Talking to NPCs didn't work in many areas due to lag: interaction windows take 10 to 30 seconds to open and sometimes they just don't. Elderslade missions are still unbelievably laggy and most of them are unplayable for the first minute or two (after which it gets better but not great). Delays in mob spawning, skill execution and practically everything. Several players reporting gamebreaking lag in areas with little traffic.
And this all just scratched the surface.
Are there engineers who could focus solely on client/server/code/lag issues? Are there resources for meaningful changes if they turn out to be big undertakings in terms of cost and man-hours?
Ha Ha, and all my chars are stucked in load screen. But hey we have new content. Eat and die. And no GM in sight. Time to cancel my sub again
Have tried supporting this game as long as I could, despite having really bad lag at times in the past, I still stuck it out because the content after Erebor I found to be pretty darn fun. Felt like old LOTRO again with the questing, and atmosphere (for me at least), but this was kind of the last straw for me.
I wish I could enjoy the game, I really do and for the love of the all the nostalgia I have for this game I overlooked a lot of technical flaws, and ###### decisions in the past (the High Elf debacle, the EU data-center cancellation, etc) because at the end of the day I could still enjoy LOTRO, albeit it with minor to sometimes major lag. It's just gotten to a point where it's just not really playable or enjoyable anymore.
Hopefully some of those things will be fixed in the months to come, and I can return to this game, and tackle the new content.
It is basically impossible to play during evenings. This is unacceptable to launch new content to servers with such terrible lag, and with no explanation whatsover of how, and when it will finally be fixed :mad:
Peak EU times i.e. 18:00 onwards >
Evernight
Location - Deepscave & Mattugard.
- Changing layers over and over has had little effect.
- "Already in use" over and over.
- Delay when "using" something, then 3 seconds later it goes through.
- Some mobs you simply can't attack.
- You commence combat and it's practically turn-based.
- Lagging through the floor.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat: that can't be.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Asy1
According to this "producer" they're doing "work" in terms of server performance.
"Stay tuned", right?
ThisQuote:
Originally Posted by DKenny
Again in mattugard immense lag with 20-30 second delay on everything you do.. Even opening instance panel takes forever
You are on [EN] Evernight server 51 at r2 lx320 ly790 i35 ox11.37 oy124.79 oz1050.47 h305.2. Game timestamp 455538015.822.
I suspect the local dealership ripped out my V8 and transmission and replaced it with a flat four from Europe, except it says Merkadees on the rocker cover and the V8 is just crayon. They are working on the "carb" to fix things though. But no - this just doesn't happen in rl.
1250 non anonymous people online on Evernight atm and playing in Ettenmoors is like watching a slideshow on Windows 95
People are rubber banding everywhere, everything just stops
World chat is going nuts (yet nobody seems to take a hint and post about it on forums). Everyone is talking about the lag and how it effects everyone on the server
Nothing is working properly atm
You are on [EN] Evernight server 23 at r1 lx1330 ly1040 ox44.83 oy12.54 oz482.25 h327.7. Game timestamp 455556817.328
I'm not a frequent poster by any stretch of the term, however.....
Having spent yet another small fortune on another LoTR:O expansion, I find myself getting incredibly frustrated with the game.
The following issues are, as a consumer, indicative of incredibly poor customer service:
1: Server lag. Evernight is unusable, unplayable and after yet another lag death in Deepscrave, unplayable.
2: I'm not going to say much about the scammers who can bot in while not in game, or the other less than savoury ones we can add to our ignore lists.
3: having paid for buffs for the Valar and associated items, why on earth were they added as bind on acquire, rather than bound to account?
There are more.
Please, for the love of the FSM and his noodly appendages, fix the server so that it doesn't lag so poorly. I may be just some random internet guy making a complaint, I'm also a paying customer making a complaint SSG.
Stopped playing several months ago, because prime-time lag on Evernight was sucking out every enjoyment of the game. Logged in yesterday (~20:00GMT) to say hi to kinnies, didn't even step out of my housing neighborhood - lag was still omnipresent - basic tasks like checking mail and vault took ages. Gave up after 30min. SSG should really make server performance a priority.
These last few days i'm experiencing lag like i never did. Almost unplayable (at least in peak times)
Who could've known: the usual SSG "care" in terms of graveyard silence.
Where's this "producer": I'd like to have a chat about all the "work" SSG "is doing" in regards to server stability.
Logged on this evening, tried to put something in my vault. After A MINUTE it finally transferred - or so I thought. Tried to put a second item in and just kept getting the uninformative "General Error 0x0000something" which basically means the server is lagging so badly it can't do anything.
In any location there is the "Reduced awerness" message. Low level maps, high level maps all the same, 0% loss and everything lags.
Its not just Evernight, and its not just the new areas. I play on Arkenstone, I was on my new brawler in the shire trying to do 2 quests for over 3 hours last night. There were no other players in sight. We have 1 Gig internet and have streamed 3-4 HD shows at the same time with no lag in our house. Last night I was home alone and the only one on the internet, yet I was unable to go from Tuckborough to Stock. Spent 3 hours trying to do a couple quests later around the Great Willow. Rubberbanding back as far as 2 min of content. I mean what is going on? These areas have been fine for YEARS. On top of that I was doing a quick Throne run on my bear and we wiped 7-8 times on bosses we can normally just afk on becasue of 30-40s lag spikes...
Every zone in the game is nigh unplayable. Pull your ####ing fingers out ssg and do something about this
I tried to do crafting and housekeeping as a stopgap as anything involving fighting is no fun for me atm.
Sadly I just set a new personal record of 2 min 10 sec for a move from bag to vault. I'll be back when performance improvements are released or enough players have stopped trying.
700-ish visibles as about as much as Evernight seems to be able to handle these days, on EU peak times we see 1100+.
What else can be said?
The lag is horiffic. No response though.
It's pathetic that this is still an issue.
It being a new area shouldn't be an excuse for lag, even if it could be forgiven.
Sadly SSG don't give a flying duck ???? (if you change the d to an f that's your choice) about this issue since we all still pay for this rubbish
Either that or the whole team is utterly incompetent.
I can't understand how the server performance is so low on the priority list. This has been an issue for years and years already. What kind of impression it gives to a potential new player when they introduce a new expansion and players come to check it out facing this kind of game performance. Most likely the visit will be short.
Same comment applies to other QoL improvements like higher resolution UI support when some UI elements are so tiny that it is almost impossible to read them out.
Go to the moors, near orc camp you will find a solitary BIRD , maybe its a euphemism for the answer to the lag.
Was absolutely dreadful last night on Evernight. Moving was like a slide show. Skills either failing or taking upwards of 10s to go off and vault management was just not possible.
Like whats the point of releasing new content if its unplayable? A lot of people dont play the game only bcs of lag, that should be nr 1 priority
Seeing as Cordovan is asking for feedback on changes made to address performance in Elderslade and Gundabad should we infer that the meagre resources have been usurped in order to obtain favourable comments?
LOL: you mean this constantly-absent CM who primarily shows his face in fluff threads or threads regarding issues with e.g. the store, where he can respond with lightning speed?Quote:
Originally Posted by Braer
But don't worry: according to this "producer" the servers are a "work in progress", as you obviously can tell by him fumbling around and grasping for straws in his posts in this thread.
Or this nugget of "wisdom" from him:
https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...17#post8103217Quote:
Originally Posted by Raninia
If those "server initiatives" actually release by the end of the year(LOL), what are the chances of them being as "through" and "high-quality" as everything regarding Gundabad?
Come on SSG, enough is enough! Game is unplayable due to lag and just continues to get even worse! We pay a lot of money for this game and we see no improvements from your side at all.
We demand some clear answers with timelines and most importantly a solution!
Same again this afternoon. 625 non-anon online and it is impossible to move. Goat lurches forward for 5s then stops for 3 to lurch forward again.
Try to be more understanding.Quote:
Originally Posted by Milathir
The money they *aren't* spending to provision adequate server resources looks *very* good on SSG's bottom line!
EN is horrendous to play on at the moment. Since FoG arrived its been stuttering and bending under the weight. Can't add things to vault, vendoring takes forever, moving items from one place to another - don't bother trying. Picking up quest items, yeah, takes a while but you can do it as long as you don't get jumped by mobs that seemed to not be there and then just appeared (no, not respawns). Fighting mobs, skills just freeze and you don't actually know if you're winning, losing or defeated. Weirdly though, I can move quite freely without any lag at all most of the time, even while all that other stuff is happening.
Its not just Gundabad either, so nothing to do with player volume in new areas. It's all over the world, even in missions.
We apologize for the issues you have been experiencing on Evernight. Our IT folks would like additional information to help them investigate, so if you could private message me the below info it would be helpful:
1. A Direct X Diagnostic. From the Windows desktop, press the Windows and R keys to open the Run window. In the Open: field of the Run window, type dxdiag. Click OK or the Enter key to open the DirectX* Diagnostic Tool. If prompted to check if your drivers are digitally signed, click Yes.
2. IP address
3. Internet Service Provider
4. Character name (and server if not Evernight)
5. Location in game with a /loc along with more detail about what you experienced.
6. Video if possible. Please consider recording some video and getting it to us through an unlisted or whatever video on YouTube or something.
These problems have been around for years and that will not change.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnenna
SSG proves to us how competent they are to solve these problems during 13 years. If players play lotro after all these last years of failure, it means that they accept this situation as long as they have their dose of lotro every day.
You have to be patient to wait maybe 14 years or more before there won't be no more server's issues in lotro.
I get an error message about a security token when i try to PM you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cordovan
Lob
Reasonable request if almost any other company asks for more details regarding server performance, but you just need to search the forum in the last ~2-3 years and there are countless threads where your customers frequently complain about server performance, and yet here you are still needing "more information" that such a thing is even happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cordovan
Is this a serious question? Literally the whole server has been unplayable for longer periods of time since the expansion came out. The problem is beyond what kind of Direct X, internet provider etc someone is using.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cordovan
@Cordovan Tried to send a PM twice and keep on getting the following.
Your submission could not be processed because a security token was missing.
If this occurred unexpectedly, please inform the administrator and describe the action you performed before you received this error.
Are you vip player ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellemere
YesQuote:
Originally Posted by Kordoo
I'm normally fairly supportive of SSG and think the forums recently have been overwhelmingly and unreasonably negative but this really isn't helping SSG at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cordovan
The performance issues on Evernight are not intermittent or limited to a handful of players, it's everywhere (from the empty housing neighbourhoods all the way to the overrun new zones & mission halls) and impacts every aspect of the game (movement, interacting with an NPC, interacting with environment, combat, everything). The only thing that varies between players is to what degree they are impacted, e.g. it normally takes 30-60 seconds for me to access my vault or carry alls but other players say it takes longer.
You'd only need to login to Evernight to see the problem.
- Login to a housing neighbourhood and see how long it takes for the VIP subscriber quest giver to appear and be able to offer quests.
- Note how long it takes for the plugins to load, channels connect etc.
- Swift travel to a mission hall, your choice they are all terrible AK was worst now just awful, new one now worst, try to accept the weekly/daily and a few mission quests, see how long it takes.
- Try a mission see how long it takes for mobs to load, then try fighting them or using one of the quest items.
- Finish the mission and see how long it takes before you can hand in a mission.
- Then map to Gundabad starting zone and wander down the stairs and fight a few mobs, or try to ...
None of these actions are hard to replicate and are what you should expect as typical behaviour with a new zone and new missions, so surely must be part of your play ability testing.
There is something seriously flawed in the server architecture & supporting infrastructure and/or the infrastructure is woefully under specified either way it requires a fundamental review and investment.
I struggle to understand why you want any of this. just log into the game and I'm sure there will people, happy to show you the issues. It's not hard to find. It's a server problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cordovan
Irrelevant questions given that this is not a single user issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cordovan
Need to be investigating internal resources on overall infrastructure performance to understand why the trigger point deterioration of gameplay is impacted generally around 800 players (who aren't anon), and why it's severely impacted at 1200 players at peak times (Weekday evening 1800GMT+ for example). Logging into the game at this time to - as we say in the business - replicate the issue for yourself, to get an understanding based on the 10+ pages of issues from this thread.
Maybe you should play when there is less player ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Burzdolion
Oh you're hilarious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kordoo
/threadQuote:
Originally Posted by Kordoo
Go put your big boy pants on and come back with some actual discussion.
I rarely complain about lag, but today it has been worse than ever. At the moment, to be precise. I was questing in Gundabad earlier and stopped because lag in tightly packed orc camps was getting a bit too dangerous for my character, so after a break, I thought I take my lowbie brawler out questing in wight mounds of Ered Luin (Haudh Lin). Well, turns out I couldn't actually play at all. Lag became so bad that I was in combat and out of combat, fighting wights that I couldn't even see, or not fighting those that I stood right next to... I tried to open a chest, but it only worked after I waited for 30 seconds or so. I didn't want to lose undying title because of lag, so I had to run somewhere apparently safe and logged out. Maybe this is better early in the morning...
Just imagine an online game whose servers can handle more than a few thousands players simultaneously.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kordoo
Crazy, right?
Reduced Awareness on Evernight with barely 1k non-anon.
https://i.ibb.co/8KXWRZ3/image.jpg
If PM doesnt work to Cord.
Send an email to :-
lotro@standingstonegames.com
Could you be more specific what part of dxdiag you need? Full output is 10 times the max message size and I don't think we can add attachements.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cordovan
Playing with a friend on discord, doing 2 man content and skills are unresponsive/movement rubber banding at precisely the same times. Definitely an individual issue. I second that one need to only log in as a dev and see how it is for themselves rather than troubleshoot someone else's experience.
The interesting thing is: not for everybody. So it does make sense to try and find out what divides the happy players from unhappy ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glohir
Why are they asking about our ISP and directx versions? SSG knows, we know, Daybreak knows. Everyone knows.
Its daybreaks servers that is awful. Just go to eq or eq2 forums and search for lags and you will get threads going back 2-3-4 years by now lol.
I am sorry, but asking the players for these details is just a smoke screen and pretending to do something. Same strategy Daybreak has been using to do nothing.
Arkenstone lag is pretty bad too.
Why don't they create a user account and just log in?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cordovan
Your reply doesn't help anything. I have for most part, been able to play the game without the issues I listed, for the best part of 8 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kordoo
This is since FoG.
Done. Zero errors on all five tabs. Drivers are signed and up to date. ISP Virgin Fast Ethernet. Arnenna, EN. Everywhere in the world, massive delays, especially when trying to pick things up, hand in quests etc. Vault access etc, is really bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cordovan
Such replies help a lot, especially if there are a lot of similar ones from different people, over the course of several years, with not a finger lifted by SSG.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnenna
The reason I find this an odd request is I play on both Evernight and Crickhollow. I've just been on Evernight and it's lagging - slow using vault (both taking out and putting in with error messages), crafting going at slow speed even though I have my VIP buff, constant "Reduced Awareness". I've just switched to Crickhollow and it's fine. Vault fast as normal, etc., etc. All on the same computer using the same connection.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cordovan
Edit: When I checked on Evernight 1,111 non-anons. Crick 344. Spot the variable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cordovan
1: This is not relevant as my museum piece is more than capable of running LoTRO, and other online games. It is not an issue with the 1,000 other customers computers of varying specifications, it is a server issue when a player lags and/or bands so much that 2 minutes after trying to stop moving, said player plummets over a ledge to their doom. By the way, nice work with the spawn locations, I've seen more of them now that I have over the last 13 years.
2&3: With the 1,000 plus players affected by sever lag, it is irrelevant to require IP/ISP details as my details in Ireland (North) will be different from a customers in say, Ireland (South), France, Latvia, Croatia etcetera.
4: For my issues, you have my character name, but as I cannot contact ingame support, maybe you can contact me directly to discuss the Bound to Character items that I received and cannot use on a new character as they are not bound to account (Valar and other level 130 boosts), this would be a show of good faith considering the server issues.
5: location in game, it's problematic everywhere. Creating a Brawler (which was why I bought the expansion pack with the boosts which bound to the first character I logged in with), I was unable to get the undying deed in the North downs due to lag affecting an easy fight and being defeated (which was weeks ago).
6: Would it not be better for your mods/devs to create an account and check for themselves if such evidence of the lag issues is required?
This information is all player dependant. Out of curiosity I played a bit on evernight tonight, just in the starter areas. It's very laggy even there, it took me 20 seconds between I opened the door in south bree AH and the instant the server acknowledged I was out and put me actually out. Then I switched to Laurelin, the server I play in, both european server, both located in the US, same person playing on the same connection, same pc, same time, southern europe based. On Laurelin there was no lag at all, and none of my kinmates had lagging issues (in gundabad, not in south bree).Quote:
Originally Posted by Cordovan
So, given that at the same time, Laurelin had around 600 non anon and Evernight around 1100, it's clear that the server tech is simply not capable to handle that amount of people. Assuming you can't fix this in the foreseeable future (if you could you would have done it years ago), why don't you simply allocate another server to EU players and put an end to this? Add another EU server, allow only EN player to move there in the first month or so, split the population in two and it's done. You are capable of doing this, it's been done for leg servers and even Bombadil.
Now I know that resources for Leg servers are paid by them being VIP only, but this evergoing evernight debacle has already costed you so much both in reputation and loss of playerbase, is it really worth to go on with this sorry show just to save money?
No point in adding new content if people cant play it because of horrid performances.
Wanted to confirm that Arkenstone lags.Quote:
Originally Posted by Popey-211
Yesterday I tried a a lowbie character on Gladden and found problems there as well. For example, on a stable ride (not swift travel) the stable horse literally
stopped for 5 seconds, turned around and went back towards the original stable master before eventually heading back in the correct direction.
I don't know how EN compares to Arkenstone and Gladden but I can confirm the latter two have very noticeable performance issues as well. In the case at least of Arkenstone that includes solo Missions.
SSG - It seems to me you have two choices to resolve the performance issues. First, correct the situation so that LOTRO can handle current and - hopefully - additional new players. Or reduce server
load by waiting for some players to give up and leave thus accepting a decline in revenue and probably bad press.
Feel free to email it to lotro@standingstonegames.com. This isn't about me reading it, but rather about offering some further information to the people doing the investigatory work who would appreciate receiving the information.Quote:
Originally Posted by OghranNasty
So after years of "we are working on it", the investigations have come this? Really? They haven’t logged on the lagging servers even once to investigate the problems first hand?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cordovan
I do know that Scenario was talking about world building in his 2 hour Gundabad stream and he mentioned some things like they can combine certain assets into one asset, which would make the loading of various assets faster....and could reduce lag. As you move through the world stuff gets rendered as you get closer to it. He also said they often have not done the combining of assets into one asset because they have the individual assets and just placing them was quicker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forodir
Now, I am not a 3D modeler of any kind, nor do I know anything about the technical side of the engine used by the game.... I am just not a game programmer. That said, the Scenario streams have been extremely educating, and I can see that DirectX information may help to see how stuff is rendering on locations further away from the server, such as Europe and Asia. They can log on to the server all they want, but they have a direct link to the servers, and virtually all employees live within a 15ms radius to the servers, so they may not be able to emulate what is happening on larger distances such as European countries. I also know they have been trying to figure out problems with their links going to Europe. Their ISP may be able to provide better routing to European ISP's and for that having IP address information from the laggy clients could be extremely valuable.
I'd say if it helps in any way for them to make server adjustments, I'd be willing to try it. Doesn't seem like it is too much of an effort to collect logs, so I'll do it when I experience lag on Arkenstone.
It does tell me that the technical staff isn't able to fix the lag at this time, are at their wits end, and they are looking for clues. If we can provide some clues for them, I have no problem with that.
If you DO have a problem with that request, feel free to ignore it, and also this post, and hope for the best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maartena
With North American based Evernight kinnies suffering with the same lag and poor performance as us over in Europe, it's unlikely to be a transatlantic networking issue. There are clear trigger points to the lag based on user count - I say this with there being 500 people online (not anon) - and I'm not seeing the poor gameplay performance I saw when there were 900+ online.
The questions originally requested are what I would deem first stage investigation with the idea in mind that this is a single user issue, not reflective of the 10+ pages we see in this thread. Logging onto the server, and replicating the issue first hand is a very valid troubleshooting exercise.
Isn't that proof that the new "producer" lied through his teeth about "work" being done when they now, yet again, need information if customers really are affected, which they have for the last several years?Quote:
Originally Posted by Forodir
Happy-talk about 64-bit servers and unspecified improvements coming in the indefinite future could *technically* be considered "working on it", couldn't they?Quote:
Originally Posted by oggbnvwnyc
I mean, they're paying people to do it, right?
No, they've been working on stuff but new problems always arise when you change, add, or remove coding.Quote:
Originally Posted by oggbnvwnyc
You always need as much information as possible especially with issues that Evernight is seeing.
Personally, Evernight shows the extreme of LOTRO's Servers and how they work for all of them it's just not every Server sees Evernight type numbers to get to said Server's issues.
This is showing how LOTRO and how it's Servers are working is hanging over the edge and hanging on for now and that if SSG doesn't start dedicating a lot more resources to any and all ways to Optimize every bit of Coding, System, etc they'll be looking at a lot more problems in 2022.
As it stands heading into the last days of 2021, LOTRO cannot especially with Evernight, have any major influxes of Players in 2022 and beyond until Optimization is worked on for months and sees true meaningful progress with Evernight being the main Server that will show if such is working.
Things are still just in SSG's court. The ball is in their hands. They have to start making the winning plays.
Otherwise by this time next year in 2022, LOTRO is really going to be hurting.
Naively, it seems like one or both of two general problems must be responsible for the population-sensitive lag:
1) There is a network bottleneck (either at the edge of SSG's network, or inside it) unable to handle the traffic from ~1k players, and/or
2) The servers are unable to respond to incoming traffic at the rate it arrives from ~1k players
This is almost tautological.
While these problems may not be easy to solve, they should be completely trivial to monitor and track on SSG's side.
To check whether #1 is happening, you compare the traffic into, and out of, each network node, in both directions.
To check whether #2 is happening, you look at the server latency (response time to incoming client requests).
These types of server-side metrics (and a lot more) should be available at their fingertips, and yet they're asking for emailed dxdiag printouts and anecdotal video clips of people lagging out?
Technically correct, yes, but the scale of SSG's denial + ineptness is bordering on being absolutely delusional.Quote:
Originally Posted by LagunaD2
https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...17#post8103217Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raninia
The "producer" can't be more specific than "we do stuff" which "improves" stuff.
https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...92#post8104292Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raninia
The "producer" wants 15+ more years of Lotro while SSG still utterly fails at providing stable servers for a few thousand players since like forever.
https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...19#post8107219Quote:
Originally Posted by Cordovan
It's palpable how SSG either:
- A: has no idea whatsoever how to run a few servers and is poking in the dark
- B: systematically ignores every feedback regarding server performance, as evident by the underlying notion of "All of you people having issues with our servers can't possibly be true", something they've done for years
- C: is now backed into a corner and grasping for straws in an attempt to not having to admit it's solely on them and their garbage servers
Those are just pathetic excuses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvain
Do some forum archaeology and search for "server", "performance" or "lag" and you will have threads ranging back years, often in regards to Evernight, which were either completely ignored by SSG or offered the "We need more information" excuse, like they do right now.
As I already said in another post: fan-run unofficial servers of MMOs/MMORPGs run just fine being also based in the US with ~20-25k+ players or more, but SSG's servers can't handle like 1k non-anon players on Evernight at the start of prime time?
Normally it's in the first few days of a new job when colleagues send you off to get some left hand nails for the other side of the wall. Or "pop your head up and check to see if the snipers are back". That stuff soon stops one way or another but we've had it for years.
Only the dumbest of players can possibly still be taken in by this corporate self-delusion so why on Earth do they keep trying it on?
If they want my data then I want to know how much bandwidth Turbine were paying for and using back 2008 and what the figures look like now. Whatever paths they been duped into taking HAS NOT WORKED.
They have literally trolled themselves into this stunningly inept stance.
My calendar is set for midday Friday for some Landroval gameplay if Cord is really looking for evidence! He can show us his Diag and a tracert if he has the first clue how to do one.
That's the most efficient course of action for SSG if they want to avoid their own burden of proof by not showing any kind of evidence that those issues aren't caused by them or their servers, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by LagunaD2
Just wanted to chime in as well and say that the lag has been horrible since the expansion has come out (wasn't great at times before in all honesty) and as someone said earlier, if we say nothing about it, then nothing will get done.
If something doesn't get done soon (a proper acknowledgement and course of action would go a long way), you're in real danger of losing players, myself included (been here since the start) I'm sad to say.
Just my 2 pence worth
Not to go full Karen, but can we speak to the manager? ????
To be fair to cord, he is just gonna say what he's told. But as a community who are all pretty fed up to say the least, I feel like we need more reassurance than he can give. At the moment it's so bad I'm considering asking for a refund for the exp and my recent VIP, not that I would have a chance at getting it. The situation is that bad. We need to know what SSG is doing about this and what they have been doing for all the time they claim to have been looking into it. I can only see 2 excuses. 1 they haven't looked into this at all and have lied. Or 2, the have looked into it but are unable to fix it, in which case they have to hire someone who can.
So I beg, please can we get a response from some who can actually answer our concerns and help build some trust in SSG.
Building trust is an exercise in deception, being trustworthy is an entirely different entity; be careful what you wish for. Calls for greater communication can be similarly handled and can have nothing to do with transparency.Quote:
Originally Posted by Feldanor
I doubt the person responsible has a login to these forums.
And the over populations go away and the whales dutifully pick up the slack, job done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Utherkai
I don't agree. If they communicated even slightly regarding their plan, they'd have a chance. It would also allow us to hold them accountable. No communication just reinforces the belief that that don't give a duck about us and are just ignoring us. As for someone responsible not being able to login to the forums, it's not difficult to sort.Quote:
Originally Posted by Braer
I've only seen Daybreak execs post on some of their other game's forums to immediate condemnation. Their plan is to blame every one and every thing beyond their responsibility, it's clear as day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Feldanor
I have just cancelled my sub.
I am a player from day 1 in 2007, and i spent tons of omeny on this game, but i will no longer until the long standing issue of the horrible lag hets resolved.
The attitude of devs on this matter makes me sick really. How can such issue that makes the game unplayable, be so low on priority list? How can nobody communicate with us on this matter?
We should have constant updates on what is beeing done, and when the issue will be resolved!! This is not the way to treat paying customers.
As it was said here before, if we don't vote with our wallets, they will remain silent, and the issue will not be fixed.
I feel like a fool tbh that i spent money on the new expansion :mad:
It's simple. The server is not coping with the amount of players online at peak times. I play on Evernight mainly but I do play on Shadowfax also. I lag on Evernight, which gives me a lot of rubber banding and inability to move forward at times and sometimes I can't
move at all until eventually it disconnects me. At times it takes up to 20 seconds or so to cast a single spell (LoreMaster) to loot and to interact with npcs. Constant error interaction messages because the server isn't updating my true location fast enough.
I don't lag on Shadowfax at all, which has a smaller amount of people on at peak times.
I'm in the UK on Plus.net and have no problems at all with my connection.
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I've just been on Evernight (12:00 GMT) and experienced no lag whatsoever. Vault to bag - instant. Hand in mission to Horin +- 5 seconds .... reason = Only 570 players online.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shazzbot
Ignoring you in the sense of your forum posts, undoubtedly. What they're not ignoring are the sales of the recent expansion, which I gather were pretty good. Handing over the money and then complaining about the game via forum posts is not an approach likely to yield results.Quote:
Originally Posted by Feldanor
That's ultimately an approach that could work, and might be what they're deliberately doing. The number of players online obviously is a major factor, which is why individuals sending detailed information about their gaming set up isn't likely to matter much. If any one person was on at one time, there likely wouldn't be a problem. It's ultimately a load / capacity issue. But yeah, I expect the 80 / 20 rule applies (20% of players provide 80% of revenue. So if they can reduce the population to that core 20%, plus a bit, it would likely solve many performance issues without costing them much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Braer
This is why they won't give details. Because they don't want to be held accountable to those plans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Feldanor
It's the same problem as getting IRS guidance to new tax laws. You can either have quick responses that quickly explain the nuances of the law but which may or may not be correct and which could be changed later, or you can have responses that take a long time to come but which you can definitely legally depend upon. And if you want a faster response that you can legally rely upon, you hire your own tax lawyer and depend on their errors and omissions insurance to make you whole if it turns out that they were wrong.
There has been communication, although admittedly it's in multiple places. As far as I know SSG is working on server performance patches, 64bit servers (end of this year hopefully), working with network engineers form Daybreak to look at incoming pathing issues, and prob more stuff.
It's a layered issue, think about it as a commute to work; how many steps are between you and the office? Hundreds which you dont think about when it goes smoothly but one breaks down ..
EQ2 still have ONE EU server hosted in the UK and its the only EQ2 server that has not experienced lag for years. called Thurgadin. Planetside 2 is also hosted in the UK. So there obviously is alternative hosting options.
Why dont they ask Daybreak to move the EU servers there and see if that could help out the EU players. We could also then play with 50ms instead of 250ms. The game is borderline unplayable as soon as we see 800+ non anon players online.
I guess no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellemere
If you use deliberately as in "Being utterly incapable of providing stable servers for a few thousand players for countless years and thus welcome fewer people playing which might resolve that issues on its own without having to lift a finger", then yes, I agree with that notion.Quote:
Originally Posted by DKenny
I am just saying..... that at this point, ANYTHING that gives them a clue will help. If players are unwilling to help, that is fine.... but if it gives them any sort of clue as to what might be happening and why, I am all for it. Because it is pretty obvious that if they KNEW how to solve the lag, they would have done it by now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Burzdolion
You're kidding, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by maartena
How many more "clues" does SSG need, over the course of several years, to "what might be happening" in regards to their atrocious server performance?
At some point you have to come to the conclusion that SSG either actually couldn't care less or is absolutely incapable of operating a MMORPG that requires servers to host more than a few thousand players.
Oh, my sweet, summer child...Quote:
Originally Posted by maartena
They know perfectly well how to solve the lag, but it would cost them money.
So the lag will stay.
No doubt they've received the requested information from a number of helpful players like Maartena by now.
I wonder when we'll get a detailed update on the resulting progress toward a solution?
Any predictions?