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Just started a thread with a bunch of my thoughts on blue line. I know we are supposed to put ideas here but it is long and would rather not clutter this thread too much. As a side note, thank you Jinjaah for reading our ideas and responding.
https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...rtial-Champion
It is good to see an actuall reply from someone. Thanks you Jinjaah.
I gather my suggestions were too outlandish to elicit a response. But please consider making the ST and AoE trait trees less exclusive.
Here are some more modest suggestions:
1. Make Remorseless Strike easily available to AoE champions. Brutal Strikes is a great Single-target Fervour-spending attack for 2-handed champions, and this is available on the first tier of the Berserker tree. Remorseless Strike is the equivalent skill for dual-wielders, and it is one of my favorite attacks. Please put it next to Brutal Strikes on the first tier of the Berserker tree.
2. Make Blade-wall generate pips again, either by default or by a trait in the Berserker trait tree.
3. My attack duration suggestion was modest enough. The current system is overly complicated. Please just reduce the champion's attack duration by default.
Considering 12.2 has yet to hit BR I'd say early february, depends how much they push to 13. As for 13 I'd expect Middle of March to April. That being said it could go faster, or slower. Though last year with the update we were asked to test gear in B2... unfortunately the gear was only implemented in B4, and then only half of it so really hard to test. Not saying that would happen again but usually there's been ~4 weeks for an X.0 update. If it hits sooner, good... though I won't be keeping my breath :pQuote:
Originally Posted by LunisequiouS
Thank you for the replies Jinjaah :). Looking forward to see this suggestions on live =)
Excellent feedback Jinjaah. Most of the issues have already been mentioned, I just want to make sure nobody forgets about SPRINT. I believe sprint was fine the way it was, the 5 min cd is killer in both pvp and pve. Considering the mass CD reductions across the board, it was painful to see one of our most trusted cd raised. It would be nice to see sprint changed to pre-HD in red line and maybe something interesting done with it in the other 2 trees. But please, anything than what it is now.
Edit for typo.
Ok, a few comments/ideas from my side.
1. Hedge. It's a must-have for a champ, worst thing can happen to us. It's already confimed by come back, but still - better to mention once more that it's crucial skill!
2. Filler traits. Might and Finesse in Yellow and Vitality in Blue in current form are useless. If Might and Vit traits are to stay plese change them to percentages 1.5/3.0/4.5/6.0/7.5% would be noticeable magnituedes, but not overpowering. Finesse on the other hand feels totally useless.
3. I don't agree with most of the champs on Born for Combat. If you think that it's a skill to be used when in trouble, than it has sense to me that you need to be hit. But in current form (not-so-impressive damage), it's just a filler you click if Raging Blades/Fury of Blades are on CD. I would suggest leaving damge as it is, but adding a debuff to mobs hit by this skill. Then it has sense: you are under heavy attack => use a skill which influences attacking mobs.
I like the idea of +incoming damage debuff for N seconds, that would be in-line with the dps tree. It would be very valuable skill for a single player and good groups can use it if they can coordinate the scenario in which champ takes aggro long enough to use Born for Combat and after that tank takes over the mobs.
We could also have a legacy to increase the duration of Born for Combat debuff.
4. Red dps. I like idea of Red being burst damage tree dependent on crits. Unfortunately it does not work so well. The tree has lower sustainable damage than yellow tree and I've seen higher crits on Raging Blades and especially Fury of Blades than with Remorseless.
Jinjaah: Thank you for responding to as many posts as you did. I think it would have been very easy for you to approach this defensively and argue with us. Instead, it seems like you acknowledged most of our concerns as legitimate and are working on a plan for them. This gives me some hope for Champs in the future. Thank you.
I also made a list of things I'd like to see changed/fixed. I decided to make my own thread for it, as it's quite an extensive list and didn't want to muddle up other threads:
https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...mpion-Feedback
There are 2 "must have" changes I would like to see besides all the other things in this thread.
1) I would really like to see "Rend" (exactly as it functions in the Yellow Trait Tree) as a basic skill. Fervour generation makes it my number one attack in yellow and I miss it A LOT when I switch to Blue line... makes me cry. I have Battle Frenzy (of course) but it isn't enough to keep the Fervour flowing in Blue Tree.
2) The squishy moors Champ must be fixed. Even in Blue trait my survivability is zero. (except for the poor Hunters who are pure Warg chow) I don't know what to suggest as a fix here but a squishy Champ is intolerable. I have Audacity and while physical and tactical mitigations don't apply in moors my parry, evade, crit defence and resistance are high enough that I "should" be tougher. Trait Blue only buys me a few more seconds of life between the extra morale pool and if I pop a heal or two. So morale isn't the problem IMO we just aren't tough enough in some area... and it isn't like we don't pay a DPS penalty for trait blue so there should be a bigger bump to survivability.
So my addition to the suggestions already made. (if someone else hasn't already mentioned these)
Red line - the berserker, why doesnt it feel like berserker at all?
I mean the concept of single target DPS if more than fine, I also agree to the fixes suggested here... but could we get some feeling of actualy berserking? In pre-HD we had continuous blood-rage that drained HP for some bonuses, thats what berserker feels a bit. Though the buff was badly balanced then, and instead of balancing it well now, turbine sems to go easy way and redesign it completly to something what is not even fiting the skill name.
I would like to see in berserk line skill with mechanic like this:
- on activate take away x% (30%?) of current health - mechanic similar to dire need, but more risk oriented
- the amount of health taken is added to next skill used damage - ratio to discuss, would give possiblity of controlled burst damage
- possiblity to get portion of the health spent back - in ex. 50% of health cost refunded over 10-16sec, that would protect from spam and yet allow for taking risk for nice burst chains
- low or no cooldown - player should decide how much he want to risk in order to gain adventage
Other suggestion would be to pump defense side of champion, it got reduced alot and it doesnt feel right in my opinion. It passivly should be increased amongst all trait lines (in ex. with gear adjustment). Then you could propose new mechanic to red-line, reduce defensive stats in order to get offensive stats. That would put defensive side of champion into more fiting position, while giving more feel into specializing in given trait or skills. Before in fervour champ you resigned from parry/evade/block in order to get damage, you could reinstroduce similar mechanic somewhere. But maybe not into 100% uptime, but more controlled way.
Hi Champs! Hi Jin!
ok, idk if this has been an issue for anyone or if it has been posted previously but here i go.
CBR...
This skill was one of the few that made me feel a true champion, i mean, it (used to) fit prefectly with the lore. A raging unstoppable killing machine
I use to pop it mainly in PvP and the CBR + Sprint combination were the perfect picture of what a champ can (should) do in battle, and it was reasonable, why? heres why.
- We are a melee class, so we need to be close to our target to do something (that means, to play at all)
- When trying to maximize dps we sacrifice a lot of survivality
- To reach a target with slows/stuns/roots on us + no survivality is almost impossible
- CBR + Sprint used to allow us to bypass those 3 things and actually GET TO FIGHT.
With CBR being not a Toggle anymore and Sprint seriously nerfed (cooldown) I find that my game experience has changed (sadly not in a good way) a lot.
My english is not so good and I cant express a lot of things and cant go any deeper in some concepts, but I hope some of you get the idea of how big is the impact of nerfing these 2 skills which were KEY to the champion to just let it do its job.
Is there any chance that these two skills get a review in the future?
I agree with many of the suggestions that are posted in this and many of the other Champ threads. I just want to reinforce some of these points and say I completely agree with the numerous other posters who have said them:
1. Give us back hedge
2. Boost overall dps of Red Line
3. Add HoT for Bracing Attack
4. Boost True Heroics and Fear Nothing
5. Make Wild Attack get Strike Line bonuses
6. Make Emboldened Blades tier down
7. Improve Deep Strikes Trait
8. Change/Remove/Improve the Might, Vitality, and Finesse traits in DS and MC lines
The big issue that I want to bring up/restate is with the use of Battle Frenzy. Currently we have no built in Pip generation into any of our lines. Because of this, Battle Frenzy and it's legacy BF cool down are MUST haves for every Champion build, because it provides constant pip generation as we had with our old stances. My suggestion would be to remove the constant pip generation given from BF and just make that a passive ability for every champion. For balancing purposes the pip generation could be different depending on which line you trait (ex. 4 secs for BZ/6 secs DS/8 secs MC). I know this is similar to our old stances, but I don't understand why the pip generation was removed in the redesign. This change could also help boost the overall DPS of the Red Line, plus remove the need for all Champs to have BF cooldown legacy on all their weapons. Then BF can go back to be what it was meant to be, an instant pip surge that was used as a one shot every 2 mins and not become the new MUST have legacy for every champ weapon. If needed, add an extra short buff when using BF dependent on the line that you are specced (I'm sure there are plenty of ideas out there).
Thanks Jinjaah for the feedback and keep up the good work!
linked a https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?534870-The-Berserker-(commentary-and-review-among-other-things) small amount of suggestions/changes, all of which I consider reasonable. I appreciate the feedback being given as much as any other, and if nothing else I really hope our current attack duration gets a good pass.
Rend stacking.
I stacked rend 5x and the damage was the same as 1x
I maxed the legacies on Rend and would be nice if it would actually stack.
I expect a 5x stack to do 5x the damage.
A list of skills I think need improvement:
true heroics. Long cooldown with a small but potent buff/debuff. Here are some examples of things worthy of a 5 minute coodlown:
+10% crit chance for 1 minute or
-15% attack duration for 1 minute or
+30% parry chance for 40 seconds or
resets all cooldowns and maxes out any stacks/tiers (for example seeking blades, born for combat, or unbreakable).
If the cooldown is lowered to 1 minute, I could see it staying how it is, but something needs to change.
Sprint. Cooldown is much too long. Please consider dropping the cooldown to 3 minutes, and each trait can remove 30 seconds, giving a 1 min 30 second cd. Since having a 125% run speed up half the time is too OP, also drop the last 30 seconds of sprint to 100% run speed but unaffected by slows. basically we need a reliable way to close in on targets but after they are within range should just have enough to stay with them and be able to engage our targets.
Born for combat. I'd like to see it become more than just another dps attack. Make it an aoe slow or aoe root or aoe knockback or even an aoe pull (i know, not going to happen). Give us a passive capstone that really does something special.
blade storm - It does less damage than blade wall and raging blades but costs the most pips of the three. it has also has a shorter range and number of targets as raging blades. Consider giving blade storm a higher crit chance and/or crit magnitude component to make up the difference.
merciful strike - Not worth the pips any more. If it's on a 10 second cooldown consider boosting damage per pip considerably, or make it immediate.
bracing attack - This skill is often not worth the times and pips used to spend it. by the time it fires off the enemy usually has done the same amount of damage I just healed by and now I'm stuck using another pip builder to get back to 3+. The HoT Made this much more viable.
fear nothing - This skill is pretty useless altogether with a long cd and being limited to only fears.
Yellow Line:
Champion`s Advantage could need a slight buff in duration. (Proc Chance: Bypass 15% of enemys mitigation)
15 s instead of 8 s sounds reasonable. :)
Checking the notes on br for patch 12.2 i hope Jinjaah will make some nices changes on red line champ. When i read this: " Creep Health pots now heal for a percentage of their max health instead of a flat value. These range from 5% to 45% of their max health".So one reaver rank 13 or 14 can recover 35% or 40% with morale pot. That is a lot. Also if you include that our parry cap has been reduced ...At least i hope that champ on red line will get some more resources :(.
I hope for a teal (gold) DD sword with nice stats and damage type
there is only one teal DD sword for Champs in the loot-lists and it has mediocre stats
all other swords are for loremasters, tanks and agility based classes
i have a nice purple sword with over 800 critrating and found no teal version of it which made me a littlebit sad :(
I agree that the taunts, particularly the AOE, have too long of CD. A possible solution might be to add a "minus xx minutes/seconds" bonus for traiting 5 deep in Martial.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malganis_Lefay
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aniquilador
So don't worry about the pots :P I can't wait for the berserker line changes but it's unlikely we will get any major updates before U13. For now it's okay that True heroics and challenge can't be parried, resisted or whatever.Quote:
Creep health pots are being lowered. They were never intended to take incoming healing into effect. I will post later to give the final result of the change.
-Jinjaah
Dear Jinjaah,
A lot of things that I would like to see changed with the Champion have already been mentioned but there is at least one thing that bothers me: Pip-generation!
Right now the Champion feels really clunky to me especially when playing in red. While I used to have a well oiled (and admittedly overpowered) killing machine, I now have a car with three wheels, broken gears and a piston seizure.
Pre-DH the Champion had the following means to generate Fervour pips: Stances, pip-builders, 'burst-pip-skills' and Glorious Exchange.
1) Stances have been removed and most of their benefits have been placed in their respective first bonus trait save for power and pip generation. As far as I have seen, power usage seems to be fine for Champions but feel free to correct me if I am wrong. The pip generation on the other hand has been completely removed which slows down the class a lot as one needs to use an additional (low damage) pip builder in every rotation. Sure, the new Battle Frenzy, which admittedly provides a better pip generation than the stances used to do, can offset this change, but, as already stated by someone else, one needs a legacy and a trait.
Additionally Ardour no longer provides another pip for every enemy defeated via permanent Red Haze.
And while the new Controlled Burn is no longer as overpowered, as an older version used to be in the power and pip department, it could use a longer duration, a shorter cooldown and/or a higher damage buff. Keep in mind that with masteries beyond 100% a buff gives less than half the value in the tooltip.
2) Wild Attack and Swift Strike/Blade still generate one pip as they always have BUT there are no longer any traits that give additional pips when critting (aka Blood-Lust and Swift to Anger). Additionally Stalwart Blade no longer exists which used to be my most favourite trait ever in this game, a true companion for FOUR years that never got untraited even when a situation prohibitted AoE-attacks at all. The Blade-Wall-generates-pips-on-crits set bonus also no longer exists which probably was the best set bonus for this class ever.
Those traits and set bonuses have been replaced by Precise Strikes, a red trait-set bonus that gives additional pips on critting strike skills and Furious Swings for yellow which gives a 20% to generate an additional pip with a blade skill.
The problem with Precise Strikes is that one needs enough pips to unlock the strike skill and then one either crits, so one's pip-meter will be nearly full again (or overfilled in combination with the Hytbolt-Berserker-set) and thus wasting time with unneeded pip-builder or (gasp!) Feral/Savage Strikes, or one does not crit so the pip-meter is (nearly) depleted and a lot of pip-builders have to be used again before using the next strike skill. A bigger Fervour pool like a Hunter's Focus pool might solve this problem as well, though I do not like the idea due to various reasons: a lot of bonuses have to be readjusted if a Champion has too much Fervour pips, the Champion suddenly would have the possibility to spam pip-spenders for a longer time without building for them and last but not least: the similarities to a Hunter are big enough, there is no need to further blur the boundaries between classes.
I would rather have traits back that increase Fervour generation on pip-builders than on spenders like we used to have pre-HD. If you have concerns about Champs gathering too many of those traits, you can set them deeper into their respective trait trees, i.e. Blood-Lust deep into red, Swift to Anger deep into Yellow and Stalwart Blade somewhere on the top of yellow.
The same problem as above applies to Furious Swings and there is only a 20% chance per skill usage compared to 'on critical hit' which can go as high as 120% for strike skills. As an aside note Blade-Wall is now totally redundant when not tanking while Rend just adds to many Fervour pips. I would propose moving one pip from Rend to Blade-Wall to compensate the loss of Stalwart Blade or the Ardour Bonus. Edit: Blade-Wall now seems to have an unusual high power cost compared to other skills.
The new skill Devastating Strike just does not help with this issue as the dps is just too low, the cooldown is too long and the debuff is neglegible anyway. The number of pips generated (2) does not help much in the long run as well.
3) With 'burst-pip-skills' I mean Battle Frenzy, Fear Nothing and Red Haze. While the pip-over-time on Battle-Frenzy is kind of nice, in practice it only replaces the old stances's (and Red Haze's) regeneration. And it no longer allows for burst damage without traiting deep into yellow. Fear Nothing is as good as it always was (and I honestly do not see the need for every class to have a remove-all-ill-effects-with-low-cooldown-skill) but the animation is far too long to be used for burst damage.
Furthermore Red Haze is now a passive trait set bonus that adds five pips when an enemy dies. While this nets more pips per kill than it used to be it removes the fun of pressing Red Haze, but then again it saves power... [/i] Edit: I forgot about Red Haze [i].
4) Glorious Exchange still exists as the passive bonus for traiting blue even though it has been nerfed down to 10% from 20% if not traited deep into the blue line. And I do not like the new name of it: Masochism. Even though the buff does what the name implies, in my opinion it does not fit into LotRO.
Best wishes and good luck,
Thruili
PS: While I only wanted to onyl discuss Fervour-generation, there is another thing I would like to see being adressed: The cooldown on Blade-Storm and Shing-Shing are too high, especially compared to pre-HD, while the pip costs of RB should be five (again) when the generation is fixed. Regarding Raging Blades: Can we have the old icon back, please?
PPS: Another thing that comes to my mind: Why was Improved Great Cleave (aka Death-Storm) removed?
I liked being able to spam already existing AoE skill every once in a while like a mad meatgrinder instead of having two new lack-luster skills. Fury of Blades only hits targets in front of the Champion and has a far worse damage per pip ratio than Raging Blades and Born for Combat seems only situational with the second lowest damage of all AoE skills.
PPPS: (I feel like Gandalf now): I liked how the old pre-RoI Champion used some of his defeat responses, i.e. Red Haze and Second Wind. The first one existed up to HD but the reworking of the others took some choices away as the developer back then thougt of them as boring and to 'captainish'. I really would like to have some choice in active defeat responses back as I had some years ago: One for power (the German translation for it 'Atempause', i.e. pause for breath, implied that the Champion took a deep breath after defeating an enemy before fighting on), one for pips (just as Red Haze) and maybe some others like +damage, +crit or +morale but that might be a bit too reaverish.
As I understand, the rating needed to reach the parry cap has been reduced, so you should reach 25% Parry even easier while losing on Evade.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aniquilador
I agree with all your stuff there except for these two points. First, bladewall has its place. it hits hard, doesn't add pips and doesn't remove them. Rend building two pips makes that also a very nice skill. In fact it would be detrimental to pip generation if you removed one pip from rend and added it to bladewall. The time it would take to hit bladewall and rend to gain 2 pips is way longer than the time it takes to simply hit rend resulting in loss of dps and lower pip gen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thruili
As for the fury of blades being lackluster, it really shines when you have full pips. As in, WAY better than raging blades.
Quick note about redline:
Emboldened blades buff is nice but it's proc is way too low. 20% chance seems good on paper but my god does it take forever to get to tier 5.
Even then its no guarantee of a big hit. For a class that has to watch its positioning with such care sometimes its a bit much to ask them to watch for certain buffs they cannot even properly keep track of with out plugins. I would love to see Emboldened blades become easier to proc, getting 22k hits unbuffed is nice.