Dadi's Guide to Imbuement

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Originally Posted by Proudcdn

New LIs be taken to level 30, switch out all legacies that you want and max the tier (6), and then imbue. You can use the Star-lit Crystals after.

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So basically, get the LI perfected with all tiers maxed, then Imbue. So following your recommendations, there's functionally no difference in imbuing the LIs at 30 than there is at 70, because you have to get all of the tiers maxed out with Scrolls of Empowerment before imbuing, or you get stabbed in the face with Mithril Coin expenditures after you imbue the LI.

That's the problem with the LI Imbuing system in the current build, it's adding more grind on top of a system that already has **TOO MUCH** grind.

The LI system needs to have the grind decreased, not increased.

So I estimate you'll need anywhere from 49 (all legacies at T6) to 84 (!) Scrolls to max out a new FA.
At the current cost this is horrible. Lets hope they adjust the prices or drop rates on the scrolls. Otherwise I see the market going completely bizonckers as they are posted on AH for 200+g each...
Still too early to tell the final product, it has potential but needs work.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

So basically, get the LI perfected with all tiers maxed, then Imbue. So following your recommendations, there's functionally no difference in imbuing the LIs at 30 than there is at 70, because you have to get all of the tiers maxed out with Scrolls of Empowerment before imbuing, or you get stabbed in the face with Mithril Coin expenditures after you imbue the LI.

That's the problem with the LI Imbuing system in the current build, it's adding more grind on top of a system that already has **TOO MUCH** grind.

The LI system needs to have the grind decreased, not increased.

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I think that's what most of us were expecting/hoping, silly us.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

So basically, get the LI perfected with all tiers maxed, then Imbue. So following your recommendations, there's functionally no difference in imbuing the LIs at 30 than there is at 70, because you have to get all of the tiers maxed out with Scrolls of Empowerment before imbuing, or you get stabbed in the face with Mithril Coin expenditures after you imbue the LI.

That's the problem with the LI Imbuing system in the current build, it's adding more grind on top of a system that already has **TOO MUCH** grind.

The LI system needs to have the grind decreased, not increased.

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Make it more grindy so you are tempted to click the mithril coin button which is disgustingly littered all over the panel.

Fantastic post Dadi, thank you very much for taking the time to do this for all the people that have not been able to test beta.
I would like to add my 2 cents worth though:

1) People should wait till the last beta test before doing anything, because as you said things could change.
2) Frelorn stated in the notes that they will release information at a later date regarding which legacies will change and what they will change into, so people should wait for this info before doing anything.
3) Crafters should make as many relics and decon them for shards with every alt they have, which they can use to get empowerment scrolls.
4) If people intent on buying mithril coins for the purpose of increasing tiers, then dont rush to get them but instead wait until turbine have the 30% off your entire cart sale and get them then.
5) In the same context as above, wait until thye have another bonus points sale on turbine points before buying any so you get more TP for your money.
6) Use the time from now until launch to farm as many meds, marks, FA symbols, scrolls, gold, DA tokens etc cos believe me, you are going to need them. Like most people who tested beta, I took all my legacies to level 40 and it cost a fortune in mithril coins. So the more items you have before you embue the better.

Again, I wanna say thx for the post Dadi, it is awesome!

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Originally Posted by Kelleran

Make it more grindy so you are tempted to click the mithril coin button which is disgustingly littered all over the panel.

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Which makes it exceedingly poor taste, and exceedingly bad system design.

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Originally Posted by Valamar

Excuse me -- but the Player base, especially the Raiders and PvMP players, screamed bloody murder all over the forums when it was originally announced that Western Gondor (Dol Amroth) was going to increase the Level cap to 105. Everybody wanted things "capped" at level 100 so that they would not have to "Grind" new characters/weapons/armour to level 100 and then again a couple of months later grind them to level 105.

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For those that fully decked out their LIs, imbuement will allow them to keep what they've ground / payed for, and gives a feeling of 'growing' with them. I won't begrudge them that.

For those of us that did the bare minimum for our LIs, the grind / payment associated with imbueing may seem excessive (it does to me). Personally, I leveled LIs to 31 for their legacies and IXP as I leveled, and added a scroll of delving to my second age LIs - this didn't really feel like grinding to me. This was sufficient for the content I played.

The prospect of grinding or paying for imbuement legacy levels puts a screaming halt on any further game progression I may have contemplated, especially if future content (aside from PVMP / instances) requires imbued LIs with no alternatives provided (then again festivals are an alternative leveling pathway lol). Currently imbuement is being officially portrayed as optional - this may not be the case in the future.

To add a sense of 'growing with you', imo simply increasing dps/LI bound stats would've done and keep the legacies we had. Maybe I'm a minority here, maybe the majority envisioned increasing the potency of their legacies as well. Oh well, I have plenty of pre-cap alts to level when I feel like playing Lotro - until such time as current LIs and crafted items are done away with at lower levels.

As far as raising the level cap, personally I would have liked it purely for the extra 3 trait points. Selfish I know.

Now enough from me, I hope the embuement system is all you wished for, and then some.

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Originally Posted by Proudcdn

The intent seems to be to implement the system for all LI levels (45-99) once they are sure it is working as intended.

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Just to manage expectations - it is not the intent, it is a very very distant possibility. The amount of work it would require would be gigantic, the benefit would most probably not justify the effort.

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Originally Posted by Hyos

Just to manage expectations - it is not the intent, it is a very very distant possibility. The amount of work it would require would be gigantic, the benefit would most probably not justify the effort.

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Have you heard this somewhere that you can quote? Could very well be true, but what is the source?

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Originally Posted by Tarlywyn

For those that fully decked out their LIs, imbuement will allow them to keep what they've ground / payed for, and gives a feeling of 'growing' with them. I won't begrudge them that.

For those of us that did the bare minimum for our LIs, the grind / payment associated with imbueing may seem excessive (it does to me). Personally, I leveled LIs to 31 for their legacies and IXP as I leveled, and added a scroll of delving to my second age LIs - this didn't really feel like grinding to me. This was sufficient for the content I played.

The prospect of grinding or paying for imbuement legacy levels puts a screaming halt on any further game progression I may have contemplated, especially if future content (aside from PVMP / instances) requires imbued LIs with no alternatives provided (then again festivals are an alternative leveling pathway lol). Currently imbuement is being officially portrayed as optional - this may not be the case in the future.

To add a sense of 'growing with you', imo simply increasing dps/LI bound stats would've done and keep the legacies we had. Maybe I'm a minority here, maybe the majority envisioned increasing the potency of their legacies as well. Oh well, I have plenty of pre-cap alts to level when I feel like playing Lotro - until such time as current LIs and crafted items are done away with at lower levels.

As far as raising the level cap, personally I would have liked it purely for the extra 3 trait points. Selfish I know.

Now enough from me, I hope the embuement system is all you wished for, and then some.

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I think those who have done the bare minimum on LIs up to this point have the easiest route of all. Obviously, this type of person is not worried about maxing out all legs to 40. All the anguish there seems to be for those that feel compelled to have a maxed out imbued LI ASAP, especially those with multiple characters.

For a minimalist, with the upcoming increase in legacy starting values, a simple imbue of their starting weapon is all that needs be done. The imbued LI will then have legs that grow with it as acquired during normal game play to the soft cap of 26 to 33, leaving them with a better LI than pre imbue. No Ixp pills, no crystals, no scrolls of empowerment needed.

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Originally Posted by Scirocco

I think those who have done the bare minimum on LIs up to this point have the easiest route of all. Obviously, this type of person is not worried about maxing out all legs to 40. All the anguish there seems to be for those that feel compelled to have a maxed out imbued LI ASAP, especially those with multiple characters.

For a minimalist, with the upcoming increase in legacy starting values, a simple imbue of their starting weapon is all that needs be done. The imbued LI will then have legs that grow with it as acquired during normal game play to the soft cap of 26 to 33, leaving them with a better LI than pre imbue. No Ixp pills, no crystals, no scrolls of empowerment needed.

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Absolutely. This system is fantastic for me. I never bothered upgrading my LIs significantly before. I figured there was little point - just going to have to deconstruct soon anyway. I'll probably actually spend some time and effort on them now that they are going to stick around! I won't be maxed, but I was never close to maxed before either :)

I have browsed through quite some posts, and to me there are two big problems as it is currently on BR (i.e. I hope these things change)

• The cost of getting the tiers up, i.e. marks and medallions cost of scrolls of empowerment. Yes, you can get them in other locations (DA, in two ways), but the amount that one needs, particularly with several characters, and with characters having different LIs for tanking/healing/dps, is just too staggering. My feeling is that the cost of SoE should be about 30% of what it is now.
• Only being able to swap legacies with MC is absolutely not done. If this is supposed to be your companion until the day the game ends, then not being able to easily swap legacies when (for example) a change is made, and legacy X is suddenly way better than legacy Y you had, is just horrible. I expect there to be a similar system as there is now: getting another legacy takes a little work, swapping it should be possible, with afterwards maybe a little work to max it again. In relation to the previous: one should not have to buy an enormous amount of scrolls of empowerment to max it again.

Especially the second point is something that I haven't seen discussed too much (though I may have missed it).

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Originally Posted by Mathili

• Only being able to swap legacies with MC is absolutely not done. If this is supposed to be your companion until the day the game ends, then not being able to easily swap legacies when (for example) a change is made, and legacy X is suddenly way better than legacy Y you had, is just horrible. I expect there to be a similar system as there is now: getting another legacy takes a little work, swapping it should be possible, with afterwards maybe a little work to max it again. In relation to the previous: one should not have to buy an enormous amount of scrolls of empowerment to max it again.

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I highly doubt that this will remain this way. Turbine needs revenue streams but they have ALWAYS been good about making sure that Mithril Coins are not the only option for advancing your character. My feeling is this was an oversight at Beta launch that they will work on for build 2 (beta).

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Originally Posted by Proudcdn

I highly doubt that this will remain this way. Turbine needs revenue streams but they have ALWAYS been good about making sure that Mithril Coins are not the only option for advancing your character. My feeling is this was an oversight at Beta launch that they will work on for build 2 (beta).

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Right now the following things don't work on an Imbued LI

• Crystals of Remembrance
• Legacy Replacement Scrolls
• Scrolls of Delving

We know for sure that Remembrance and Delving are supposed to work. I also cannot see Turbine leaving Legacy replacing only to use with Mithril Coins... That would be a major oversight and cause a lot of rage in the forums. That said I and others are making sure we bring it up in our reviews of the system to make sure that Turbine sees this. I would bet by build 3 these are working. Typically Build 2 only has fixes to things Turbine already had on its plate to be done before Build 1 was even put on Bullroarer. It won't be until Build 3 that we start seeing fixes to things that Turbine didn't know existed until Build 1 was on Bullroarer and the Bugs/Threads started getting posted.

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Make sure that your Legendary Weapon/Item has all the legacies on it that you want; do not wait to do this after Imbuing. Doing so after will cost you 79 Mithril Coins.

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Well, that's astonishing.

I'm very uncomfortable about this sort of thing, things where mithril coins become absolute necessities, so I'm going to assume this will be changed.

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Originally Posted by Lilka

Well, that's astonishing.

I'm very uncomfortable about this sort of thing, things where mithril coins become absolute necessities, so I'm going to assume this will be changed.

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It is still Beta. The system isn't finished. Legacy Scrolls or Remembrance Crystals will probably be the means to change legacies in game.

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Originally Posted by Proudcdn

I highly doubt that this will remain this way. Turbine needs revenue streams but they have ALWAYS been good about making sure that Mithril Coins are not the only option for advancing your character. My feeling is this was an oversight at Beta launch that they will work on for build 2 (beta).

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I was expecting the same, but then I read the release notes again, and there's a clear difference between the crystal of remembrance noted as "does not work yet", and the legacy replacement scrolls as "do not work". I am of course also hoping and pleading that there should be a way to replace legacies not by MC, but the text seems to indicate that the old legacy scrolls are not the intended path (though they'd make the most sense, in my opinion).

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Originally Posted by Scirocco

I think those who have done the bare minimum on LIs up to this point have the easiest route of all. Obviously, this type of person is not worried about maxing out all legs to 40. All the anguish there seems to be for those that feel compelled to have a maxed out imbued LI ASAP, especially those with multiple characters.

For a minimalist, with the upcoming increase in legacy starting values, a simple imbue of their starting weapon is all that needs be done. The imbued LI will then have legs that grow with it as acquired during normal game play to the soft cap of 26 to 33, leaving them with a better LI than pre imbue. No Ixp pills, no crystals, no scrolls of empowerment needed.

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This is encouraging news and I hope you're right for us 'minimalists'. Pardon all the skeptics (including myself), but when marketing drives the game design it is understandable.

I think that as they hit build 2 or 3 we will see some of the things we have all been talking about being implemented.

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Originally Posted by Proudcdn

I think that as they hit build 2 or 3 we will see some of the things we have all been talking about being implemented.

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This is definitely one update that will need to see four or five rounds, as there's a lot of work yet to be done.

Build 1.1 is now on Bullroarer. Before anyone gets up in arms that no changes were made, this is to be expected. All the feedback that has been given thus far needs to be processed, debated, and decided upon before being coded. My feeling is that we will likely not see anything major until 1.3+.

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Originally Posted by Proudcdn

Build 1.1 is now on Bullroarer. Before anyone gets up in arms that no changes were made, this is to be expected. All the feedback that has been given thus far needs to be processed, debated, and decided upon before being coded. My feeling is that we will likely not see anything major until 1.3+.

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**Grabs pitchfork*** RAWR!

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Originally Posted by Jinjaah

One quick update on things mentioned in this post:

We are currently working on the starting points for each legacies' potency over the next couple builds. What you will start to see is the base value of each legacy begin to creep closer to the current pre-imbued max.

-Jinjaah

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Good. Because on my Hunter I had Press Onward Cooldown maxed on my sword - rank 9, -90 cooldown - which gave me a 30sec cooldown. After imbuing it was up over 50secs and I'd have to spend MC or grind for scrolls to get it back down again. You should really get what you start with, no less, when you imbue.

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Originally Posted by PKCrichton

It is still Beta. The system isn't finished. Legacy Scrolls or Remembrance Crystals will probably be the means to change legacies in game.

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Yes, thank you, I know what beta is. I believe the general idea is you give feedback in the hope that changes will be made. I suppose I could just sit here and not reply and offer no feedback and hope that my hopes and wishes float across the ocean to Turbine like unicorn farts, but I do believe it's encouraged to post in threads.

G'day Dadi,
Many thanks for the time and effort you've put into this, much like the walkthrough for HD back in the day.

If I'm reading this right, Imbuing my FA will result in a weapon close to or on par with what it currently is, along with the ability for it to grow stronger as I continue to play regardless of the current lvl cap.

The lagacy swap, with mithril coins only at this point is an appreciated "heads up".

One thing I have learnt playing lotro for the last 5 years is, don't jump straight in. Personally I'll hold off on Imbuing till after the standard "hotfix" which is what... 2-3 weeks after the update? But having an idea of what is to come, is as I said very much appreciated.

Once again, many thanks mate.