Severlin Chat reactions

To everyone worried about them removing benefits from ex-VIP accounts: Relax, they can't do that, for the same reason they can't remove benefits from Lifetime accounts, and they can't sell items that were included as "exclusives" in previous expansions: If they sell something as "forever", they can't go back on that commitment after they have your money. It could expose them to legal trouble.

Severlin never even said they were considering it. He only said that he regretted that decisions had been made in the past by his predecessors to give so much value to ex-VIP accounts. (Arguably this wasn't a very smart thing to say in a PR interview, but he was experiencing an inexplicable urge to be "brutally honest with you".)

The only way they could remove existing ex-VIP benefits would be to grandfather all existing ex-VIP accounts, thus creating two different kinds of ex-VIP accounts and incurring the development/maintenance/support and goodwill costs thereof. Not likely.

What they could do (and there is ample precedent for) would be to figure out a way to make those ex-VIP benefits less attractive, e.g.:

• Swift Travel: Keep the permanent swift travel benefit for ex-VIP accounts, but make a new kind of travel that is only available to VIPs.
• All trait slots and class bonus skills unlocked: Keep these permanent unlocks for ex-VIP accounts, but introduce a grind mechanic for them that is skipped by VIPs.
• 5 Inventory bags: Keep the added bag slots for ex-VIPs, but add item types that are only stackable by VIPs. (LOL)
• Gold cap: Keep the permanent gold cap removal for ex-VIPs, but make all other currency caps higher for VIPs.

Note, I'm not advocating any of the above changes; just showing one among a multitude of ways the ex-VIP benefits could be reduced without violating the terms of previous sales.

please can someone explain that race will have the Brawler

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Originally Posted by wispsong

And all of that to little and to late. There are still no ways to get enough just questing through a region. 90+% are locked behind repetitive end game. That is not going to help characters just questing through. They need to add resets (free levels) ten below the new cap with each increase. I personally won't go further then the Gate of Mordor on new characters if I even get that far on free levels. While I have some characters with maxed crystals none has even reached the mote cap on scrolls yet. I have given up years ago on the ILIs and won't fuss much about the new virtue jump either. Eventually I will stop buying new content because I won't be able to do it.

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Even if it was added little too late (I agree with you), we don't need suppose to ignore it like nothing happens. Also, on 100 level you really don't need to have full LI right now. You just held himself down and if they add new content, you don't need ignore it and say what developers have nothing to do. You can't get everything just from solo quests, I agree, but all MMO have that mechanic. Nothing in our life must be free

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Originally Posted by Elmagor

Even if it was added little too late (I agree with you), we don't need suppose to ignore it like nothing happens. Also, on 100 level you really don't need to have full LI right now. You just held himself down and if they add new content, you don't need ignore it and say what developers have nothing to do. You can't get everything just from solo quests, I agree, but all MMO have that mechanic. Nothing in our life must be free

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Up to level 100 and imbuement we always had a reset on the LIs. Sooner or later the old one was discarded for one of the new region. All players then could decide how far they wanted to go in perfecting it knowing that eventually it would be discarded. There were no 100s of dps difference. There also was no grind needed for those of us who just quested through. The ILI just needs more and more food which I'm not willing to do 100s of repetitive content on every character for. I have better things to do then bore myself into frustration.

The Legendary Item system is so screwed up that I bet if you sold a "valar" item to instantly max 2 LI's for the same amount of money as you sell the one to take characters to 120, you'd sell more of the LI ones. I'd much rather take a character from 1 to 130 if it meant I could skip the LI grind.

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Originally Posted by Thurallor

To everyone worried about them removing benefits from ex-VIP accounts: Relax, they can't do that, for the same reason they can't remove benefits from Lifetime accounts, and they can't sell items that were included as "exclusives" in previous expansions: If they sell something as "forever", they can't go back on that commitment after they have your money. It could expose them to legal trouble.

Severlin never even said they were considering it. He only said that he regretted that decisions had been made in the past by his predecessors to give so much value to ex-VIP accounts. (Arguably this wasn't a very smart thing to say in a PR interview, but he was experiencing an inexplicable urge to be "brutally honest with you".)

The only way they could remove existing ex-VIP benefits would be to grandfather all existing ex-VIP accounts, thus creating two different kinds of ex-VIP accounts and incurring the development/maintenance/support and goodwill costs thereof. Not likely.

What they could do (and there is ample precedent for) would be to figure out a way to make those ex-VIP benefits less attractive, e.g.:

• Swift Travel: Keep the permanent swift travel benefit for ex-VIP accounts, but make a new kind of travel that is only available to VIPs.
• All trait slots and class bonus skills unlocked: Keep these permanent unlocks for ex-VIP accounts, but introduce a grind mechanic for them that is skipped by VIPs.
• 5 Inventory bags: Keep the added bag slots for ex-VIPs, but add item types that are only stackable by VIPs. (LOL)
• Gold cap: Keep the permanent gold cap removal for ex-VIPs, but make all other currency caps higher for VIPs.

Note, I'm not advocating any of the above changes; just showing one among a multitude of ways the ex-VIP benefits could be reduced without violating the terms of previous sales.

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Swift travel is only open to characters who were logged in during VIP. Having made several more characters over the years I had to get VIP for this a few times. If I remember right the same goes for trait slots.

As I recall the 120 Valar gives two LIs that have scrolls completed to around 50 and crystals maxed out. That isn't too far off since it also comes with a variety of other things including quite a few virtue boosts.

Quite a few people have used it at 119 just for the LIs and boosts - not for the levels which I agree are less valuable.

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Originally Posted by Cordovan

Any work done on the VIP program would be to improve value to it. Thanks for the responses and feedback, and we're reading.

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Glad to hear y'all are reading, so maybe some insight on a few things that feel overlooked with WoTP.

Firstly, you created a new shiny pocket and crafted relics that are barterable with a resource that is crafted, yet no daily/weekly in the Elderslade/WoTP region actually grants Ithilharn Shards to contribute to that crafting. There's like 4 weeklies for that region, most of which requiring multiple daily landscape quests but since they only give the landcape tokens its kinda pointless. Unless I'm mistaken only the weekly pertaining to Missions (do 15) gives Embers so its far easier to just run those 2 days a week, skip the landscape mess altogether, and go back to Morgul Vale for the instance weeklies or the Nazgul's for shards. Feels counter intuitive to release a region only to push people to old content to farm crafting mats to barter for new shiny.

Secondly, and speaking of Missions. The sheer amount of Virtue XP the deeds pertaining to Missions offer is great! The purely cosmetic options for barter with the Gabil'akka means that anyone player who doesnt like the look of the items, or has already gotten those that they want are now just stockpiling these Gabil'akka War-Marks for no reason. Couple to that the currency cap's at 500, which mathematically you'll probably hit before you even finish the deed to do all of the different missions. So now you've got players running content receiving 0 War-Marks and have nothing desirable to barter for anyways.

Proposed Solution: Kill two birds with one stone. Add Ithilharn Shards to Gabil'akka Quartermaster (Fabaral, or maybe even Uzkhas standing if you're being generous) for 200 War-Marks. That adds the ability to get around 1 maybe 2 shards a week per toon with alot of play time, keeping players in the new region longer per week playing new content rather than old.

Now I know that Missions are Level-Agnostic content, though personally I dont have any toons under cap. So for those pre-130 players running the content I would also add Max Tier 74 Scrolls of Empowerment and Max Tier 58 Star-Lit Crystals to the Gabil'akka Quartermaster as well. Could also add in a selector box of other rare crafting items from previous level caps if you so choose, since you've stopped putting outdated crafting componets in the Skirm Camps, or anything else really since level 105.

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Originally Posted by Thurallor

Severlin never even said they were considering it. He only said that he regretted that decisions had been made in the past by his predecessors to give so much value to ex-VIP accounts. (Arguably this wasn't a very smart thing to say in a PR interview, but he was experiencing an inexplicable urge to be "brutally honest with you".)

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Thank you for your honestity, Severlin. At least now I can confirm that these business practises are "legit" and done on purpose, not just mistakes or inexperience.

If you regret about ex-VIP bonuses, I'm pretty sure you also regret of things like so many LPs in deeds in older areas. If you regret of benefits that people who pay money can get, I wonder what you regret about the things that are completely free.

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Originally Posted by Arnenna

I found the answers on VIP the most disappointing of all, even more so than the wait for an LI upgrade.

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More disappointing than the lack of content for endgame? We currently have 1 instance(stairs) with useful loot, and the next expansion isn't releasing until fall 2021.. You have been playing for a long time Arnenna, what more VIP bonuses do you want? More "convenience" fluff? The biggest issue RN is the lack of content, 1 instance and 1 raid isn't enough to keep endgamers busy for long.

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Originally Posted by Arnenna

There has never been any freedom from store pushing grind for VIPs. Their grind is the same as everyone else's, lways has been, and therein lies part of the problem. Some players (myself included) bought up all content, and still subbed - for years, knowing the content we bought was included in the sub, so it's not just about this whole WoTP thing. Its a trust thing, its too many straws, too close together. Too much - the same, as non paying players, convenience aside, but most of us can play the game without the convenience.

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Well, freedom might be the wrong word here, but the first few years after F2P launch having VIP and buying expansions meant that the stipend was enough for that little extra - at least for people that did not go the "I want it all" road. Even people that used their stipend to buy expansions had a few leftover LP. The 500 LP stipend was really worth something at that time.
Doing a one-time sub with a 2-month game-time card was special, because we got 1000 (!) LP and the ex-vip perks. THOUSAND! Today this is 10 ILI upgrades.
Of course there was grind at that time, but it was not store-pushing, just "keep us busy". I was premium at that time too and I did not feel the need to spend LP in masses, but just to buy stuff that really felt like "account upgrades". Today we buy stuff for our every day game life.

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Originally Posted by Thurallor

To everyone worried about them removing benefits from ex-VIP accounts: Relax, they can't do that, for the same reason they can't remove benefits from Lifetime accounts, and they can't sell items that were included as "exclusives" in previous expansions: If they sell something as "forever", they can't go back on that commitment after they have your money. It could expose them to legal trouble.

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The trick is to introduce new systems and make them so important that there is no choice.

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Originally Posted by rodin12

please can someone explain that race will have the Brawler

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Personally, I'd go Race of Man, Dwarf, Stout-Axe, River Hobbit.

Talking of VIP benefits - probably gold hobbit presents might be reconsidered to remove trash rewards? Include more SoE, VXP, solvents, slayer deed accelerators, probably an essence box, whatever is needed to skip the grind? I remember I once got a Legendary XP rune out of the gold present, for something like 51000 exp. Facepalm. VIPs get it once per week, why should it contain trash?
I understand there are mithril options to re-roll the present. Maybe the rewards are okay as is, but without anything acquired too easily, from normal gameplay or silver presents (which, in the same week, you get 7). Useless rewards are "get and forget" on a free present, but on a VIP's they feel so frustrating.

(one more wild idea)
Probably include all Eriador if a new player subs for at least 3 months? I mean, Eriador stays unlocked after VIP expires, and then the player has to buy quad pack, etc, etc. End game content stays paid/to unlock with LP, as before.

PS.
You talk so much about LI grind, but, as a relatively new player, I can say that adding max 74 scrolls for motes was an immense help.

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Originally Posted by Hallandil

Personally, I'd go Race of Man, Dwarf, Stout-Axe, River Hobbit.

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River Hobbits will be after Gundabad, and Brawler appears before or with Gundabad. Also Brawler was inspired by Tulkas... you can imagine hobbit with power and size of Tulkas? IMHO Brawler must be man and beorning, and nothing else. Maybe dwarf too

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Originally Posted by Narthalion

First, I appreciated the time both Severlin and Cord put in for this. I was especially glad to see that Cord selected some of the "tough questions" for them to try to answer.

The two most disappointing "answers" to me were:

1. LIs - Even after all these years, apparently they are ( in Severlin's words ) "still looking at what we want to do". I realize its a very complicated issue. But after all this time, the fact that no comprehensive changes have been made on the system that (imo) drives more new players from this game in frustration than any other is unbelievable to me.

2. VIPs - There was some talk about "smaller amounts of content" and "charging less" for them, but nothing definite (that I heard) about what/if any new content going forward is going to be included with the VIP subscription.

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Just in case anyone doubted that the prime directive from on high is "revenue before all else."

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Originally Posted by Mythreindeer

Just in case anyone doubted that the prime directive from on high is "revenue before all else."

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From what I understand: They don't want to rush with Gundabad having 2 locations like War of 3 Peaks or MM, in next half year. So they spend year to polish different aspects of game and add locations what needs less work, and focusing or something more grand and impressive. I don't expect Gundabad having same amount locations as Moria, but looks like they give us something like 3-5 locations or even more. And if they release 40+ location near Bree with 2 factions, I doubt it will cost 1995 LP, more like 595 or 759 as all other Eriador locations. Sure it will be questpack, and same for 130 level location (looks like it will be to the north of Elderslade, so we came to Gundabad from back door, not from sealed right now main gates).

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Originally Posted by LotroVidz

More disappointing than the lack of content for endgame? We currently have 1 instance(stairs) with useful loot, and the next expansion isn't releasing until fall 2021.. You have been playing for a long time Arnenna, what more VIP bonuses do you want? More "convenience" fluff? The biggest issue RN is the lack of content, 1 instance and 1 raid isn't enough to keep endgamers busy for long.

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Well, that's a whole other issue. We have lots of end game instances and two raids, the problem is, only the latest ones give rewards. That wasn't discussed on the stream though, so, not something I'd bring up while giving feedback on the stream. This thread, is about what was brought up on the stream.

It's not so much that I want more of anything for VIP, I just want less grind. When the grinds are the same for paying, and non paying players, and all perks bar convenience have been removed from the sub, it just isn't worth it anymore.

Example, from my perspective as someone who owns all content (bought it, with real money for all expacs, and point purchases over the years). Let's assume 4 months until the next content hits (which could be paid content again, or not). Option 1: Pay $15 a month for a sub for 4 months, plus the $20 for base pack WoTP just paid = $80.00. That's $80 for one region plus convenience.

Option 2: I could use that same money to alleviate the grind.

I of course, won't do that, because it sends the message that it's ok to put grind bypass into the store in a massive way. So, instead . . .

Option 3: they get $20, and nothing more.

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Originally Posted by Elmagor

River Hobbits will be after Gundabad, and Brawler appears before or with Gundabad. Also Brawler was inspired by Tulkas... you can imagine hobbit with power and size of Tulkas? IMHO Brawler must be man and beorning, and nothing else. Maybe dwarf too

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I can't imagine a Valar ever changing into a bear either. Beorning are Beorning, and that should be all they ever are. I don't think Brawler would suit hobbits or dwarves either. They are both too short to punch any tall character in the head. They could swing a chain though (Tulkas reference), and knock an opponent to the ground, and then grapple. But I don't think a hobbit would have the strength needed to win a wrestling match and dwarf legs are too short to wrap around an opponent to pin them down.

Goodness forbid Elves start punching, kicking and grappling with anyone, so that would put them out too.

That leaves just Humans.

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Originally Posted by Thurallor

... What they could do (and there is ample precedent for) would be to figure out a way to make those ex-VIP benefits less attractive, e.g.:

• Swift Travel: Keep the permanent swift travel benefit for ex-VIP accounts, but make a new kind of travel that is only available to VIPs.
• All trait slots and class bonus skills unlocked: Keep these permanent unlocks for ex-VIP accounts, but introduce a grind mechanic for them that is skipped by VIPs.
• 5 Inventory bags: Keep the added bag slots for ex-VIPs, but add item types that are only stackable by VIPs. (LOL)
• Gold cap: Keep the permanent gold cap removal for ex-VIPs, but make all other currency caps higher for VIPs.

Note, I'm not advocating any of the above changes; just showing one among a multitude of ways the ex-VIP benefits could be reduced without violating the terms of previous sales.

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I suspect, but obviously could be wrong, that the most simple thing for SSG would be to introduce a new class of VIP, a sort of VIP GOLD. Perhaps VIP Gold is only attained if a person has been VIP for at least 12 months and remains VIP. You can obtain VIP gold also by purchasing a 12-month VIP subscription but at the end of the 12-month subscription you need to continue VIP subscription without a gap or subscribe for another 12 months.

VIP Gold would not apply to lifetime players since they only opted for lifetime VIP. However they could offer lifetime VIP players a reduced subscription cost to up to VIP Gold if they wanted. Of course, none of this works if they don't add enough stuff into VIP gold to make it worth while. But some ideas might be:

1) Increased month Lotro Points (maybe 150?)
2) Extra Slots?
3) Once a year ability to create a new character and apply Valar?

Needs to be though through.

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Originally Posted by Laurelinarien

All good ideas, especially the last one since I despise having only 2 when most classes we raid with require us to spend MC to unlock the actual number of tabs needed (no matter the class, we all need more than 2).

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On My Hunter i have 2, and even the 2nd is not true need for :-)

On the other Side in the Past we go before the Bossfights out of the Instance and reskill the tree - that you can do now also, but you do not have even to travel. The Skilltrees are nice, give us an option to save time/avoid annoying things.
Same as more Milestones and and improved CD reduction 2x to half hour and to 5 min.

The Trees were ok, we spend some money on MC to buy some Skilltrees.
As VIP i get some charslots (2?) so why not give them a Tree slot in addition?

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Originally Posted by gildhur

Honestly, Wenda Cranesbill and her subscriber bonuses make VIP insanely attractive. The only change I would make to VIP at this point would be to make her bonuses permanent - provide the Jug buff on all characters, and make the Town Services item a UI button, instead of requiring a trip to town to refresh them. It shouldn't be inconvenient to access convenience services.

Keep up the good work. :cool:

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That if would like to support very much. So we do not lose in addition the 2 Bag slots.

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Originally Posted by istvana

As I recall the 120 Valar gives two LIs that have scrolls completed to around 50 and crystals maxed out. That isn't too far off since it also comes with a variety of other things including quite a few virtue boosts.

Quite a few people have used it at 119 just for the LIs and boosts - not for the levels which I agree are less valuable.

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I picked one for my 118 Mini.
I get some stuff, rise to Level 120 and the option to pick up 2 LI.
3 different named books and 3 different named chair legs. Something i dislike much of the Introducition of the Highelven.
For a new Char mainly a good Option, but as i was on 115 fine.

Mainly i buy it to prevent doing the much Deed stuff.

I can explain someone without a hobbit can’t fight because the only member of the ring company who faced only a tower full of orcs and a boss like a raid of 12 was a hobbit

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Originally Posted by Arnenna

I can't imagine a Valar ever changing into a bear either. Beorning are Beorning, and that should be all they ever are. I don't think Brawler would suit hobbits or dwarves either. They are both too short to punch any tall character in the head. They could swing a chain though (Tulkas reference), and knock an opponent to the ground, and then grapple. But I don't think a hobbit would have the strength needed to win a wrestling match and dwarf legs are too short to wrap around an opponent to pin them down.

Goodness forbid Elves start punching, kicking and grappling with anyone, so that would put them out too.

That leaves just Humans.

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First of all, it wasn't Valar. Because LMs not majar, right? Secondly, Beorning both race and class with same name. We consider what every beorning able to shift into bear, but what if we wrong and some beornings can't do that? Like not every man and woman from Rohan use horse.