Welcome back to the Ettenmoors!

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Originally Posted by Spilo

I did for greater accessibility and less imbalance with PvE gear, but PvP gear isn't to blame for waht we have now-

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I think it is:

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Personally I don't care about freep problems but I don't like this audacity armor because before it, while there were 6, 10, 12 freeps out there that were god mode raider armor, the rest were in garbage and were killable. So you just killed the bads and then overwhelmed the good ones with numbers. After Audacity armor, all the bads became EQUAL to the raider. Instead of a bunch of 2's and a few 10's, we wound up with everyone being 7's.

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That's why. It may be fine for your set up fights and duels. But you guys don't do things anyway. The rest of us are left with what you guys think is a good idea while you're off playing another game.

Don't build the moors around 1v1ers or the preset 6v6ers. It's not a good business model. I've played solo or small group in almost every mmo that I've done pvp in. But the game shouldn't be built around that. For PvP like the ettenmoors to be successful it needs to be fun for the average casual to hop in and join a raid or roam the map and have fun for a few hours then log off. People like dread and spilo will always advocate for the game THEY think would have the most fun in.
Unfortunately, more often than not, their viewpoints simply don't reflect what the larger population might enjoy. Which is expected. They enjoy specific forms of pvp which to be honest I prefer as well, I'm just aware that a casual (which is the demographic that makes a game mode sustainable) doesn't enjoy the same things.
I won't comment on the apparent imbalance on bullroarer because I'd imagine we're quite far from a release candidate and we'll get rounds of balancing soon enough. The class changes looked very good. Excited for flayer to be maybe viable again.
I'm disappointed with the 92% CC reduction as I personally believe this reduces the skill cap and guts some classes pretty badly. But I understand why it was implemented and I have a feeling it's not going anywhere. Maybe I'm just too conditioned to sitting in 30s CC chains in WoW arenas lmao.
Overall promising changes, lots of work still to be done. It's good to interact and engage with the community. Just understand that some are very vocal but don't necessarily have their finger on the pulse of what would be best for the moors.
Finally, if the changes bring about some modicum of balance to the moors and lag can be reduced to at least a manageable (for lotro) state. I think it would be nice to see some increased visibility for the moors. It being F2P doesn't do a lot when a vast majority of LOTRO players are virtually unaware that the game has PvP at all.

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Originally Posted by J-Moneyforever

People like dread and spilo will always advocate for the game THEY think would have the most fun in.
Just understand that some are very vocal but don't necessarily have their finger on the pulse of what would be best for the moors.

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Disappointed to see this coming from you when the vast majority of my feedback during Fantus's Discord and all of my feedback for this round of beta has been aimed for GvG and RvR. Newbie accessibility, incoming damage, CC changes, commendation cost- what exactly here isn't "what would be best for the moors?" C'mon man!

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Originally Posted by J-Moneyforever

Don't build the moors around 1v1ers or the preset 6v6ers. It's not a good business model. I've played solo or small group in almost every mmo that I've done pvp in. But the game shouldn't be built around that. For PvP like the ettenmoors to be successful it needs to be fun for the average casual to hop in and join a raid or roam the map and have fun for a few hours then log off. People like dread and spilo will always advocate for the game THEY think would have the most fun in.
Unfortunately, more often than not, their viewpoints simply don't reflect what the larger population might enjoy. Which is expected. They enjoy specific forms of pvp which to be honest I prefer as well, I'm just aware that a casual (which is the demographic that makes a game mode sustainable) doesn't enjoy the same things.
I won't comment on the apparent imbalance on bullroarer because I'd imagine we're quite far from a release candidate and we'll get rounds of balancing soon enough. The class changes looked very good. Excited for flayer to be maybe viable again.
I'm disappointed with the 92% CC reduction as I personally believe this reduces the skill cap and guts some classes pretty badly. But I understand why it was implemented and I have a feeling it's not going anywhere. Maybe I'm just too conditioned to sitting in 30s CC chains in WoW arenas lmao.
Overall promising changes, lots of work still to be done. It's good to interact and engage with the community. Just understand that some are very vocal but don't necessarily have their finger on the pulse of what would be best for the moors.
Finally, if the changes bring about some modicum of balance to the moors and lag can be reduced to at least a manageable (for lotro) state. I think it would be nice to see some increased visibility for the moors. It being F2P doesn't do a lot when a vast majority of LOTRO players are virtually unaware that the game has PvP at all.

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I want to point out there's a difference between "hop in join a raid and roam the map" and what we have now (and what will be encouraged going forward) which is one gigantic mega ball lagging out the whole server for everyone wherever it goes.

I think everyone, including the "specialty action" people you are referring to, would LOVE that the moors be in a state where there's random 6, 12, or 24 man groups casually roaming around different parts of the map... but that is not what is happening.


What is happening is everyone coagulates into a single point and mashes buttons to get free points, while experiencing unplayable server lag.... and I don't think they are ever going to fix the lag for those situations, seeing as they have supposedly been trying for half a decade now. You will never get good lag-free fights when there's 100 people in the same spot using 10 target AOE skills on each other with 7 rows of effects per person.

So I did some testing on my Brawler against a couple of match ups (BA,Warg,Reaver,Defiler) And the amount of damage i was doing is obscene.

Solutions:
1.Do not release tier 4 gear, because it is just an increased stat bloat that is not necessary.
2. Increase creep base stats by a large number : Mastery is at 0 on a blackarrow with zero corruptions slotted, and this is really quite unfair. If keeping tier 4 gear is necessary, then please do increase stats or when this goes live IT WILL BE UNPLAYABLE.
3. Increase Monster player morale by atleast 15% - on my Brawler with no rank buff i have 1.7million, which is more than most creeps have with a high rank bonus.


The CC reduction is abit too strong on Bullroarer, The Idea is good but the execution is abit too potent. Stuns after once have no duration, and some effects do not even immobilize you. Perhaps lowering this to 55% or 60% would be far more playable, than the current 90%.


other observations aside from the obvious :
1.Brawler rank buff does not work (no rank bonus at all)
2. Creepside has some sort of weekly quests available, which are not available on freepside
3. Freep cloak has no audacity (making it negligible to wear the rank one = wearing trigger essences in ettenmoors, further freep dps snowballing)
4. Class Items should be added (With audacity or some reason to take them > champion can use the bow from Throne and retain the fight on essence)
5. I dont know if this is planned but Dar gazag defenders are not scaled, around 20 pulled and took over a minute to kill one player,same as outposts. I assume keeps are the same.

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Originally Posted by Saruman_Of_Numbers

I want to point out there's a difference between "hop in join a raid and roam the map" and what we have now (and what will be encouraged going forward) which is one gigantic mega ball lagging out the whole server for everyone wherever it goes.

I think everyone, including the "specialty action" people you are referring to, would LOVE that the moors be in a state where there's random 6, 12, or 24 man groups casually roaming around different parts of the map... but that is not what is happening.


What is happening is everyone coagulates into a single point and mashes buttons to get free points, while experiencing unplayable server lag.... and I don't think they are ever going to fix the lag for those situations, seeing as they have supposedly been trying for half a decade now. You will never get good lag-free fights when there's 100 people in the same spot using 10 target AOE skills on each other with 7 rows of effects per person.

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I see what you're saying but I'm saying there's a difference between people saying they'd "want" those things, and accepting a development philosophy that would potentially bring those things to pass. I'm not a dev so I won't speak to the best way to make those things happen.
And yeah I think lag is the massive elephant in the room with any kind of improvement to the moors. In terms of everyone on the map clogging up one space I think there's a multitude of factors that led to it but my personal opinion, unsupported by data, is that backdoors/autoflips combined with a lower quality of community is why we have all action concentrated to one spot.
The incentive structures of the moors have always been pretty loose. But during level 85 cap in my experience you would find a wide diversity of fights all across the map. A big part of that was a larger population allowed smaller groups and soloers to roam the map because they could reliably find fights rather than searching for 10 minutes to find one greenie (current state). But backdoors led to a concentration of players unlike anything we'd seen before because BOTH sides had a safe haven to retreat to which appealed to people. Also autoflips made any kind of effort to flip keeps feel pointless. There was never much incentive to take keeps but autoflips lowered the incentive even more. Around that time population in general decreased so people migrated to the one spot that you could be guaranteed a "fight." Backdoor shuffles. That cascaded as better players had no interest in that content so there were even fewer roamers. Lag got worse in the general game but also now all the action was concentrated in one spot. Soon all that was left was shufflers. Even with backdoors gone the mentality of the players was so damaged that they still all seek the one spot that they can migrate to and fight.
I say all this because I think the community mentality is too damaged to just expect them to go back to roaming around the map and fighting in different spots without REAL incentives encouraging them to do so. I'm not helpful in this because I can't confidently say what those incentives should be. Some games have hot spots where you gain additional loot or points. Others reduce point gains if one side drastically outnumbers another in a specific area. But I think without an incentive system designed to spread raids out through the moors the backdoor syndrome will remain.
And everything we say is completely moot if lag isn't significantly improved. I'd be thrilled if you could have a 24v24 in TA and a 12v8 in LC and a 16v18 at TRHS. But the reality is that even the 12v8 can reduce the game to an unplayable mess right now. And that would ruin any chance of revival in population from new players.

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Originally Posted by J-Moneyforever

There was never much incentive to take keeps but autoflips lowered the incentive even more. Around that time population in general decreased so people migrated to the one spot that you could be guaranteed a "fight." Backdoor shuffles. That cascaded as better players had no interest in that content so there were even fewer roamers. Lag got worse in the general game but also now all the action was concentrated in one spot. Soon all that was left was shufflers. Even with backdoors gone the mentality of the players was so damaged that they still all seek the one spot that they can migrate to and fight.

I say all this because I think the community mentality is too damaged to just expect them to go back to roaming around the map and fighting in different spots without REAL incentives encouraging them to do so.

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THIS^

This is why I wanted to see what the new EC and OC spots would do. If they worked like I've heard they worked then it would give those guys that leaned toward back door shuffles a place to fight but because there's not guaranteed safety at these spots, you could eventually wipe them out, or force them to flee or whatever.

That's why I'm so hesitant with this proposal. This doesn't address THAT ^^^ and that is our biggest problem.

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Originally Posted by J-Moneyforever

I say all this because I think the community mentality is too damaged to just expect them to go back to roaming around the map and fighting in different spots without REAL incentives encouraging them to do so.

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Then we are on the same page... and this is one of the core issues I mentioned earlier that remains unaddressed, along with a whole litany of others.

looking at these changes i may as well delete my creeps lol hunters on live can pretty much 2 -3 shot most creeps these changes properly mean 1shot is possible ( camo burn hot etc and hs) what was really needed was a buff to creeps damage output to match what freeps are capable of out there.....changes was needed for the moors to make it more balanced but this just seams to make it even worce than what we already had ( didnt think that was possible)

First let me say Thank you Orion for this welcome breath of fresh air. Yes i understand its hopefully a good start. As a player who has PvMP since Beta I welcome any changes. As someone who has spent 25+ years in Softwae\re Development and specializing in release management i know your pain. Iknow you can't please everyone and the common theme in this thread is but what about my favourite play style what are you doing to improve that!. I like Raid vs Raid Action, i like group action , but experience has shown roaming the map solo means your zerg bait (unless stealthed on a warg). I luv warg packs too just say'in but they need luv too.
Of course i'd luv you to add more creep classes to fill that "Skill" imbalance. My vote would be for a "Goblin Class" (Finally) that would be something of a cross between a warden and/or burg to give the creeps some more CC and limited stealth skills. I know your plate is already over flowing but hopefully you can squeeze this into a future "Change" patch.

Keep up the great work and we hope to see things gradually improve across the moors.


:cool:

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Originally Posted by J-Moneyforever

Don't build the moors around 1v1ers or the preset 6v6ers. It's not a good business model. I've played solo or small group in almost every mmo that I've done pvp in. But the game shouldn't be built around that. For PvP like the ettenmoors to be successful it needs to be fun for the average casual to hop in and join a raid or roam the map and have fun for a few hours then log off. People like dread and spilo will always advocate for the game THEY think would have the most fun in.
Unfortunately, more often than not, their viewpoints simply don't reflect what the larger population might enjoy. Which is expected. They enjoy specific forms of pvp which to be honest I prefer as well, I'm just aware that a casual (which is the demographic that makes a game mode sustainable) doesn't enjoy the same things.

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Based and true

Catering to 1v1 and 6v6 culture is a huge mistake, that type of pvp ends up being super exclusive and the average player does not belong in that type of environment. I'd say about half of 1v1/6v6 pvp culture revolves around calling the average player bad/incompetent/useless so those people are excluded from activities. But if you want moors action to be sustainable, you need more of the average player running around to keep it alive.

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Originally Posted by Spilo

1. I'm really concerned about messing with incoming damage without doing a global adjustment do damage numbers across the board. Don't get me wrong- incoming damage has been a bloated and ugly bandaid for ages, that made Creeps extremely vulnerable to inc damage debuffs from Freeps (the higher the -inc damage defensive modifier is, the more it hurts multiplicatively when you're hit by an inc damage debuff). However, inc damage needs to be significantly reduced when you also globally reduce the amount of damage Freeps or significantly increase health/healing capabilities. In plain terms, max audacity Creep now is less vulnerable to inc damage debuffs because overall inc damage has been reduced, HOWEVER, this has not been compensated by bigger morale pools/nerfing Freep damage. This is going to be an absolute 1-shot disaster.

2. The commendation cost is... not at all reasonable. One of the main selling points (we were told) is that it's going to be easier to max out audacity, but right now I'm hearing it costs over 115k commendations to hit 36 audacity- in what world is this a significant improvement? If Creepside is going F2P, and you want to monetize tinctures, one quick way to kill it is to make the "gearing" experience this miserable (in addition with an additional mandatory comm buff in the tinctures, combined with delving pots, morale pots, fury pots, food, etc.), which leads me to my next point.

3. The punishment for not having maxed Audacity is unreasonable. It was bad on live, I'm pretty sure it's worse on Beta, which directly opposes the spirit of making it more accessible for lowbies. Right now, if my ballpark estimate math is right, a 0 rank audacity creep takes around almost double damage and dishes out 50% less damage than their 41 audacity counterparts from Audacity buffs alone. Not only did Creeps lose inc damage without proper adjustments, you're now increasing damage inc if you're not capped!

4. The CC reduction is way too high. I get it, CC isn't always fun, but to go from, what, 60% reduction on live to 92% with 41 audacity seems crazy. That's an 80% nerf to CC duration, meaning a 4 second stun on live will last less than 1 second on beta. I really am not even sure CC itself needed a nerf on live- chain CC perhaps, but this is beyond a nerf. This is legitimately making CC completely and utterly worthless.

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^^^ I 100% Agree with all the points above.

I. The audacity changes concerning inc damage, CC and cost are horrible:
- creep incoming DMG reduction buff from audacity has been reduced but freep DMG output has not been nerfed good enough to compensate
- what's the point of the huge difference between a creep with 0 audacity and full audacity? Isn't the point of the update to make it easier for new creeps to play? I get why you need that for freeps (to stop them from using PVE gear), but creeps don't need that
- audacity cost is still ridiculously high



II. Why CC reduction is a really bad change?:
1) It greatly reduces complexity of certain classess without giving any other complex system in return because CC is practically useless now.
Knowing how to use CC correctly is one of the hardest aspects of the game when it comes to Spider/LM/burg (and other classes to a lesser degree). In order to use CC effectively you need to: 1. understand how CC DR works; 2. coordinate CC and dmg aoe skills in a group; 3.know various strategies on how to counter certain mechanics with CC [like CCing for getting distance/induction off; surviving against dmg buffs like Burn Hot and All In, etc.]).
2) It also reduces complexity of group pvp because there is no need for CC coordination.
You don't need to worry about: 1. removing CC with your aoe dmg skills (like removing a daze/roots/fear); 2. triggering CC DR with your aoe CC skills and hence reducing the potential of your overall group CC capacity.
3) creeps are reliant on CC because their most usefull debuffs (75% inc healing debuff from blight and mits debuff from warg puddle) are ground based so you need to stick freep to one spot in order to make these debuffs useful. But without CC it's impossible (flayer warg roots are not gonna work because they are countered by fearing the warg). Also CC is one of the few useful things (in terms of utility) that creeps have now because of extreme cleanse on freepside and lack of usefull buffs/debuffs on creepside. So CC reduction leaves creeps with practically nothing in terms of utility.

Can there be a compromise?
Yes. We can have 92% audacity if we get some other complex system in return. So if that was possible I would support CC reduction.

The CC change should be reverted back. 60% reduction if fine.
CC duration comparison with full audacity and no CC diminishing returns on live and beta:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...0518538/CC.png



III. What should be the focus of the next pvp update:
1) get rid of INC DMG reduction buff from audacity to reduce the potency of:
- freep INC DMG buffs and debuffs;
- 6 hour tome of defence (which is one of the worst things that happed to pvp lately)
- population buff (which should be removed from the game because it gives unnecessary advantage to one side)
and reduce creep and freep outgoing damage so that it doesn't end up in one shot pvp

2) improve creepside utility:
- fix cleanse problem (the fact that most of creep debuffs are easily cleansed because freeps have tons of cleanse skills in group). How can you fix it? My solution is to add tier system to debuffs and bleeds on creepside. In order to remove one debuff you'll have to use 3 cleanses instead of 1 and after 1st cleanse the debuff tiers down (for example: 15% > 10% > 5% > removed). Same thing with bleeds: there could be like 3 or 2 tiers and the bleed just becomes weaker with each cleanse.
- fix incombat rezzes discrepancy. Freeps have a lot more incombat rezzes compared to creeps. Defiler needs an incombat rez.
- fix the lack of offensive and defensive buffs/debuffs on creepside
- make useless skills/traits useful

3) deal with broken traceries/skills/traits on freepside (48s champ sprint/13s CD on self motivation/18s CD on mini flop, etc.)

4) spread fights around the Moors by reworking maps/mounts and adding some goals for people to travel across the map



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Also armour pot was stealth nerfed (accidentally, I assume). 223k on live vs 138k on beta.

The audacity changes will be yet another huge grind of comms just to cap audacity which I think is going to cause issues with balance that are worst than we have now on live. With the lag issues this game has had for years that have only gotten worst and the balance issues we have now on live that will probably not improve at all with this update, I can see no reason to keep an active sub here or even log on creeps to pvp and waste any more time with this game. Thanks for trying but unless some major changes are made to things, primarily the audacity costs I cant see myself doing this anymore.

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Originally Posted by SSG_Orion

The behavior that we are addressing is one that should drive players back to groups, potentially raids, potentially slavering monstrosities of maximum point value seeking players.

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First off, thank you for working on the Moors. It's the only game-mode that's kept me playing LotRO for 15 years and I'm so happy to finally see it getting some love; if monetisation is what it takes then (within reason) by all means, monetise it. Competitive players have deep pockets.

Currently a 24v24 fight is like loading up and office PowerPoint presentation, literal delays of over 5 seconds per skill press, immediate skills straight up don't work. Nobody enjoys this gameplay but when you're committed to a raid and the only way to fight the enemy (also in a raid) is to raid.... I mean, you see where this is going. I think the game is in a place now where healtagging needs to stay, or these 24v24 fights will simply become 35+ v 35+ and as we've seen before, the lag tremors will begin to heavily affect players not even in the Ettenmoors but in other places in the world on the same server. I don't envisage this encouraging any but the current hardcore PvMP player base continuing to play.

Has thought been put into how to overcome this issue? I think it's the single biggest problem with the Moors...

The only things I can think of from LIVE that I'd like to see changed are:

- Freep Audacity is currently: Get annihilated by endless CCs and insane taken damage until you get to Audacity levels where it starts to become reasonable. This isn't fun. I took a break from the game for 6 months and came back, I want to PvP but as a soloer it's literally impossible to me to gear my 2-3 played classes in any reasonable time-frame.

- Please just set the Audacity crowd control reduction to just -60%, from 1 Audacity onwards, 60%. This reduction is mandatory for PvMP not to be insufferable, especially as a Freep with how many CCs Creepside has and how long some of them are (WL Shield Bash is a joke at low/no audacity). As mentioned by other posters, it is well worth reviewing perhaps not the duration of the CCs (with -60% from Audacity as a base-line), but the potency of chain CCs, Disarms, Silences etc. a long CC or two that you can work your way out of is ok, 10 in a row sucks and is frustrating to play against.

- Please don't allow the Tinctures to over-cap Audacity, or this just makes a permanent and mandatory store-wh.. buff for some, but not available to all. Current tooltips suggest a further 2% CC and 10% damage reduction, the latter being absolutely huge for a paid for debuff. Not to mention the impact this has on Freepside being able to buy 10 stacks of Tinctures 24/7 and then wear 3-4-6-set bonus gear from the raid, which as I Freep main myself, I DO NOT want.

- Please implement some mechanics to discourage or frankly entirely prevent Grams and GV camps, these shuffle fights are mind-numbing, and prone to ending up in a winner-takes-all camp of the enemy until everyone's bored and logs off.

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Originally Posted by Spilo

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Completely agree with everything you said.

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Originally Posted by CHEBURASHKA

My solution is to add tier system to debuffs and bleeds on creepside. In order to remove one debuff you'll have to use 3 cleanses instead of 1 and after 1st cleanse the debuff tiers down (for example: 15% > 10% > 5% > removed).

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Jesust Absolute Christ No. Please, no, this idea is utterly horrible. Yes, large Freep Groups have decent cleanses, but when fighting in smaller groups or solo it's very easy to find yourself absolutely overwhelmed by debuffs and if you don't have a concerted effort of friendly players clearing you in medium to large fights you can have rows of debuffs and Disarm and Silence get lost in them, giving you 10 seconds of (for some classes) just being completely crippled and unable to use any skills.

It's great that Monster Play is Free, but non-vip free people can only pvmp for 6 hours with 20 mithril coins. This should be reorganized and I think it is necessary to encourage the free people to pvmp. It is necessary to consider that there are players who play the game from many different countries and that they cannot buy VIP all the time.

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Originally Posted by KillAllFrep

First off, thank you for working on the Moors. It's the only game-mode that's kept me playing LotRO for 15 years and I'm so happy to finally see it getting some love; if monetisation is what it takes then (within reason) by all means, monetise it. Competitive players have deep pockets.

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Yes, this is true. I want to make sure that any of the flame in this thread is from a bad history of PvP work in LOTRO, not directed towards Orion personally at all.

what worries me though is that champ sprint is still in, balancing stuff around worries me due cappy not being able to deal well with kiting and CC. Allowing creeps to have more utility significantly impacts the cappy in solo fights. The freep brands are bugged aswell, they were intended to have X amount of immunity, but that doesn't work. Cappy has one single skill the remove stun/dace/cj and that's fighting withdrawal. So that implies we're either forced to bias into a heavy self-sustain build to counteract kiting, or you simply don't stand a chance no matter how good your build is if you have NO self-sustain as cappy, any creep, even a rank 4 ####ter can kill a captain by simply kiting since we have absolutely nothing to really counter slows.

What am I asking?

Either:

• To remove the brands that have 1min cd(both sides), nerf champion utility, and be done with it.

or:

• The other option you can go for is to give the archer herald a stronger slow on captain.

In other words, do think of cc well cuz cappy out of all classes isn't doing well under a lot of CC pressure and anti-CC from the creep side since the captain itself has barely got any crowd control (slows, stuns etc)

main cause: champion
kill the monkey class

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Originally Posted by KillAllFrep

Jesust Absolute Christ No. Please, no, this idea is utterly horrible. Yes, large Freep Groups have decent cleanses, but when fighting in smaller groups or solo it's very easy to find yourself absolutely overwhelmed by debuffs and if you don't have a concerted effort of friendly players clearing you in medium to large fights you can have rows of debuffs and Disarm and Silence get lost in them, giving you 10 seconds of (for some classes) just being completely crippled and unable to use any skills.

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Fair point. In that case silence duration can be just reduced to like 3-4 sec and CD slightly increased. That way it is useful but not op.
As for disarm, there is a DR for it: 20s have to pass since the application of the first disarm so that the second disarm could be applied.
If cleanse problem is not fixed, these skills and other pottable debuffs are just useless. Making disarms and silences usefull is a big improvement for creeps in terms of utility. Orion doesn't even need to come up with anything new, just fix the stuff that's already there.

I was really hopping for more realistic changes, this reads like a fail waiting to happens yet again.

All classes free - great, should have been done long time ago, regardless of the 15 Anniversary.

More Audacity - bad, it took me months to get 1 creep to 25, more grind now? no thanks.

All skills at rank 5 - big deal?!, it is currently at rank 6, not an impactful change.

Heal tagging removed? - stupid idea, now people won't play Defiler/Wl and won't lend a hand when needed. It already started, some players are practicing their dps instead of healing and aiding. As someone who plays all classes but especially DPS (BA, Reaver, Warg, Weaver) I couldn't care less if someone heal tagging me outside of the group/raid.

Where are the real issues resolves?

1. Fix Weaver and Warg lagging skills - several skills are not supposed to have any induction yet they take 1-2 seconds to execute.
2. fix pots and brand, they simply don't work.
3. Several skills - 'get a grip' for example are lagging big time.
4. Creeps dps is so low compared to freeps it is ridiculous (even with full 6 mastery + 6 critical and rank 25 audacity).
5. Freeps have too many knockdown skills with too much range and aoe radius.
6. Champion sprint is out of control
7. OPs and keep buffs need to be removed, it ruins everything.
8. Start banning cheating freeps who use macros and multi-boxing to rank up (aka fc-fight clubbing)

* you need to stop listening to feed-back from ahole youtubers who only play Champions, and start playing creep yourself to feel the frustration.

Some of us don't play freep at all, we find it boring, introducing more pve content to creeps would be the right thing to do (a few instances/skirmishes/raid).

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Originally Posted by Brolad

Speaking of the outnumbered buff (Lainedhel's call to arms/Akulhun's something) - any chance that it could get removed or changed into something that doesn't buff combat stats? On bigger servers freeps tend to have it even at times when the numbers are equal.

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I'm looking at all the buffs since the peak numbers are nowhere near where they used to be.

Additionally, we're aware of the very real possibility of rank farmers and that they have existed for years. There are no silver bullet solutions. This does not mean that we're giving up on solutions.

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Originally Posted by Victor119977

If Orion reads this. Meta play will unfortunately always win over fun, hence it is up to the developers to make Meta fun.

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Of course I am reading this. I try to read all the discussions on the forums. Especially those that I have a hand in updating, refactoring, growing, or imagining.

[QUOTE=Victor119977;8145839]

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Originally Posted by Victor119977

It is probably unwise to touch upon the fact whether 24man raids are fun to be in, because it is subjective. However, we can all agree that being frozen in the same spot every 5 seconds, due the old LoTRO engine certainly places a demper on raids in general. And the effect a raid has on the rest of the moors, (making it feel empty because every player rushes to one location), is objectively not fun.

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I think it's a fair criticism of a flawed creation. No dispute from me. Further, the lag is something that we are aware of and that we are dedicating resources too over time to identify, address, and hopefully diminish. It's not just an Ettenmoors thing so there is something wider happening. In looking into the keep flipping issues I stumbled on some issues that I have yet to raise with our engineers. But, I am filing defects.

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Originally Posted by Victor119977

I am by no means an expert but could it be as simple to boost the renown/infamy game for solo/duo/fellowship play to such a degree Meta will shift.
By doing so the lag should subside and the moors will feel more active with wargs and burglars lurking in every corner.
To make things even more interesting boost commendations and renown/infamy for quests by a thousand? I can guarantee the world will feel active.

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There are other ways as well. The changes that are coming Soon™ are a step on what I am hoping will be a long road. I am also hopeful that I will not be the only hands that get into the sausage that makes the Ettenmoors.

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Originally Posted by Victor119977

To reiterate, rank 15 or obtain gear is the goal, not to have fun, in pvp for the majority of players. (they will never admit it). Therefore tune the moors and LoTRO engine limits to this, which will provide the illusion of fun by doing a grind.
(small disclaimer for anyone that cares enough to tell that their goal is to have fun in pvp and not gain rank 15 or get gear. Great good on you.)

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I think this incorrect. The objective of the Ettenmoors has always been to have fun. There were periods, early on, where it was not, and I busted my hump back then to get them to fun. We're limited by some factors, but we don't want to make the objective of gaining rank 15 the only thing you are striving for in the Ettenmoors.

To me, and I hope many others, the thrill of PvMP, and PvP in general are those "moments" where you were done and somehow you snatched victory from defeat. Or those experiences with allies that you look back on and just laugh or reminisce. The experience should be the goal. We're hopefully starting down the path toward making those experiences again.

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Originally Posted by Spilo

I won't shoot the messenger, as I assume this monetization is the only reason SSG let you off your leash to work with PvP, so we'll take what we can get.

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First, I have no leash. Second, no. Third, I wanted to get back into PvMP. I was fortunate enough to have some latitude to work in the 'moors again.

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Originally Posted by Spilo

However, I hope that you'll keep in mind how expensive buffs are for creeps, especially creeps who do not participate in mass RvR, as it is. Right now solo/small groupers have immense struggles just breaking even on fury pots/delving buffs/morale pots, much less new buffs. I honestly think the best course would be to completely remove delving pots and internally add the stats they provide to all Creeps (it's actually one of the big reasons why low rank creeps are so garbage- they aren't high enough rank to buy them and even if they could, can't afford them). It would show a continuation of your wise line of reasoning that there should NOT be a massive gap between lower rank and higher rank Creeps in terms of stats- that only discourages new and inexperienced players. If you can't remove the pots/add the stats, then cutting down the cost would be great, so Creeps can spend comms on Tinctures, Morale/Fury/Stun pots, and foods.

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Yes, costly and restrictive with the rank reqs. Being looked at.

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Originally Posted by Hallandil

Any hints on how to access the 50+ new monster skins added to the database?

https://i.imgur.com/DCldRBx.png

https://i.imgur.com/8fVEr15.png

My someone has been busy!

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All in due time.

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Originally Posted by Neinda

Question: Now that the proposed change out there is to prevent people from being in large raid groups, are you adjusting the Moors changes to be more small group and solo content? Not sure how the change to landscape groups will affect all of this. It seems to be changes working against each other. On one hand you are trying to bring life back to the Moors and raids again. On the other hand raids will no longer get credit for anything on landscape. Is the Moors landscape? Will raids still be possible in the Moors?

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Not sure where you are getting raids no longer get credit for anything on landscape. No changes were made to any of these interactions.

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Originally Posted by darksaiyan

- freeps get T4 equip and no changes to creep damage output... thank god, that the legendary weapons are still at 475
- CC is useless

tested on both sides a half hour

max mitigation phy and tact, 30% crit
with my RK i did 2 defilers, the first battle took a while no crit luck.... but in the end no chance for him
the second battle was over in under 10 seconds, essence of storm with 710k crit and then a static surge with 925k.... both normal crits... R15 fully buffed
against a BA I got a 130k crit vital target hit..... he was able to get me from 1,4 to 1,05m.... R15 fully buffed and full on tact mit... devasting epic con 600k

tested with my BA...
nearly the same damage output as on live... did a devasting hit with 220k on a champ with vital target...
then a warg an I tried a hunter.... he destroyed both of us, insane incoming damage and we got him to 200k left


again testing it with a new build

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This is great feedback.