Where do we go from here?

This is probably low priority, but I tried playing as a ranger this weekend and I wasn't very impressed. The HIPS and heals are nice, but their DPS isn't very good. I seem to recall that long ago a ranger could handle multiple creeps, now I can't take even one without help. Maybe I'm just misremembering.

Also the third ranger slot that unlocks when the whole map is red (quest Taking Back from Angmar) still scales to level 100. I spent a most interesting hour cowering at the back of GV lest a spiderling accidentally glance at me and make me go splat.

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Originally Posted by Xerxes2007

Do you have any plans for freep gear? I see the every day guys that are running around in the 35, or is it 36, audacity gear and they seem to be able to compete. But I'm in the purple stuff and just get immediately targeted and blown up. I don't play enough out there to get enough commendations for the good stuff, it will take me months. I want to play with the regulars sometimes, but not going to bother if it just means getting blown the heck up over and over.

I'm told you can farm newly created creeps with the intro quest for commendations but that seems like cheating, and frankly a colossal waste of time.

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Sadly you are entirely correct. On all of it. There are a few ways it could be adjusted. The initial values for audacity could be higher and the intervals tightened considerably for incremental gains towards 36. Or the audacity gear could just be made dirty filthy cheap. Either way in spite of the long awaited and acclaimed work being done the game is possibly nonetheless slipping away like sand between our fingers. I have taken a month off as it appears a few others have. This year i only managed to get one of my alts fully geared....the grind for the others is just too mindnumbing to even consider , so i logged off.

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Originally Posted by SSG_Orion

All major control points, when defended by Free People or the Armies of Angmar have far fewer defenders that are vastly more powerful. The goal here is to leave the current iteration of outpost as is so that they can be tackled by small groups. The Towers, Central Keep, Lumber Camp, and Mine are all meant to require a small raid to flip.

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Will this come with a matching reduction in the number of badges needed for the various OR/DG quests, as well as a reduction in kills needed for Flay the Free Peoples/Guards of Tirith Rhaw/Cleaning House and their freep equivalents? Also all the quests requiring mob drops such as man/elf/hobbit body parts and ore/oil, plus dwarf beards/shattered blades/etc?

If the numbers of mobs simply aren't there any more then the new quest requirements need to match, not to mention the difficulty of killing one new mob being equivalent to killing several old ones.

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Originally Posted by Ameranth

Will this come with a matching reduction in the number of badges needed for the various OR/DG quests, as well as a reduction in kills needed for Flay the Free Peoples/Guards of Tirith Rhaw/Cleaning House and their freep equivalents? Also all the quests requiring mob drops such as man/elf/hobbit body parts and ore/oil, plus dwarf beards/shattered blades/etc?

If the numbers of mobs simply aren't there any more then the new quest requirements need to match, not to mention the difficulty of killing one new mob being equivalent to killing several old ones.

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That revision will not happen for the BtS release, but it is planned.

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Originally Posted by SSG_Orion

That revision will not happen for the BtS release, but it is planned.

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All of this sounds absolutely, unbelievably good!!!

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Originally Posted by Vilan

This is probably low priority, but I tried playing as a ranger this weekend and I wasn't very impressed. The HIPS and heals are nice, but their DPS isn't very good. I seem to recall that long ago a ranger could handle multiple creeps, now I can't take even one without help. Maybe I'm just misremembering.

Also the third ranger slot that unlocks when the whole map is red (quest Taking Back from Angmar) still scales to level 100. I spent a most interesting hour cowering at the back of GV lest a spiderling accidentally glance at me and make me go splat.

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Both ranger and troll are set for a revision.

3rd kin ettenmoors night that fell through again due to creepside full and to much lag to do anything on freepside on Evernight. Can't we atleast get some sort of que system or some smaller or layered ettenmoors to thats there is any use in all the updates?

New item under consideration for changes with Before the Shadow

Freep armour sold on the vendor bumps to offer 25 Audacity base

Freep Tier 2 Bartered Armour goes to 28 base

This would be done to provide a better measure of survivability for the starting player in the Ettenmoors to equal changes on the Creep side.

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Originally Posted by SSG_Orion

New item under consideration for changes with Before the Shadow

Freep armour sold on the vendor bumps to offer 25 Audacity base

Freep Tier 2 Bartered Armour goes to 28 base

This would be done to provide a better measure of survivability for the starting player in the Ettenmoors to equal changes on the Creep side.

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I would ask you reconsider the price of essences, but all in all a good change.

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Originally Posted by SSG_Orion

New item under consideration for changes with Before the Shadow

Freep armour sold on the vendor bumps to offer 25 Audacity base

Freep Tier 2 Bartered Armour goes to 28 base

This would be done to provide a better measure of survivability for the starting player in the Ettenmoors to equal changes on the Creep side.

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Aha...an interesting move in the right direction. And also indicative that you are able to vary the Audacity on freeps mid cycle at level cap on existing gear. Is it the case that creeps will have to grind to max Audacity once only per alt , but that freeps will have to grind gear for audacity every level cap on every alt ? Were this to actually be the case it sort of looks to me like the Achilles heal in your plan that will force the moors to be a low engagement environment. However , if you are able to vary the 'audacity offer' by price and number during the level cap cycle you could possibly balance this shortcoming away. Am i missing something really obvious here ?

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Originally Posted by SSG_Orion

New item under consideration for changes with Before the Shadow

Freep armour sold on the vendor bumps to offer 25 Audacity base

Freep Tier 2 Bartered Armour goes to 28 base

This would be done to provide a better measure of survivability for the starting player in the Ettenmoors to equal changes on the Creep side.

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Other stats too. 100 audacity won't matter if you're 500 morale lower than everyone else, you'll be the first targeted and dead.

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Originally Posted by Dranak123

Aha...an interesting move in the right direction. And also indicative that you are able to vary the Audacity on freeps mid cycle at level cap on existing gear. Is it the case that creeps will have to grind to max Audacity once only per alt , but that freeps will have to grind gear for audacity every level cap on every alt ? Were this to actually be the case it sort of looks to me like the Achilles heal in your plan that will force the moors to be a low engagement environment. However , if you are able to vary the 'audacity offer' by price and number during the level cap cycle you could possibly balance this shortcoming away. Am i missing something really obvious here ?

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The Audacity trait that monster players earn is very different than the modifiers that applied through putting on pieces of gear.

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Originally Posted by Xerxes2007

Other stats too. 100 audacity won't matter if you're 500 morale lower than everyone else, you'll be the first targeted and dead.

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I do not think I understand what your concern is here? Audacity is a PvMP stat that influences a number of statistics. Can you expand upon your concern?

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Originally Posted by SSG_Orion

I do not think I understand what your concern is here? Audacity is a PvMP stat that influences a number of statistics. Can you expand upon your concern?

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Sure, thanks for asking. The thing that happens to me when I go to play as a fairly casual pvp'er is that I am quickly targeted and killed because my health bar is lower than that of my more serious companions in the higher level pvp gear thanks to the purple gear I'm wearing. Audacity is a passive stat that your opponent can't see, obviously. They are identifying my lack of gear based on my morale and targeting me accordingly. What I am seeking from my earlier post in the thread is an experience on par with the more serious pvp'er even though I'm more casual. Maybe I don't hit as hard, but I would sure like to not die any less.

So my problem is twofold - being targeted first being one, and dying too quickly being the other. Increasing the audacity level could help address the latter, but if the former is still true, it won't make much of a difference as I'm still 10 levels of audacity under par even with your suggested improvement.

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Originally Posted by Xerxes2007

Sure, thanks for asking. The thing that happens to me when I go to play as a fairly casual pvp'er is that I am quickly targeted and killed because my health bar is lower than that of my more serious companions in the higher level pvp gear thanks to the purple gear I'm wearing. Audacity is a passive stat that your opponent can't see, obviously. They are identifying my lack of gear based on my morale and targeting me accordingly. What I am seeking from my earlier post in the thread is an experience on par with the more serious pvp'er even though I'm more casual. Maybe I don't hit as hard, but I would sure like to not die any less.

So my problem is twofold - being targeted first being one, and dying too quickly being the other. Increasing the audacity level could help address the latter, but if the former is still true, it won't make much of a difference as I'm still 10 levels of audacity under par even with your suggested improvement.

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I understand your issue in wanting to be able to engage in the moors as a competetive player if not amongst the most powerful on the field. But humbly and with the greatest of respect , if you look at Orion's last two posts there is a possibility that he just doesnt get it.

I think the popularity stands and falls with good level scaling. For epic battles and the moors.

Will we see some changes here? If we'd have a good scaling system we could use it elsewhere e.g. instances.



Have a nice day!

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Originally Posted by Xerxes2007

Sure, thanks for asking. The thing that happens to me when I go to play as a fairly casual pvp'er is that I am quickly targeted and killed because my health bar is lower than that of my more serious companions in the higher level pvp gear thanks to the purple gear I'm wearing. Audacity is a passive stat that your opponent can't see, obviously. They are identifying my lack of gear based on my morale and targeting me accordingly. What I am seeking from my earlier post in the thread is an experience on par with the more serious pvp'er even though I'm more casual. Maybe I don't hit as hard, but I would sure like to not die any less.

So my problem is twofold - being targeted first being one, and dying too quickly being the other. Increasing the audacity level could help address the latter, but if the former is still true, it won't make much of a difference as I'm still 10 levels of audacity under par even with your suggested improvement.

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Thanks for clearing that up. There isn't any intention of increasing vitality or morale on the starter gear right now.

This is certainly something that we can look at moving forward, but there would likely be other stat adjustments made to the gear to accommodate an alteration in the vitality and morale.

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Originally Posted by Dranak123

I understand your issue in wanting to be able to engage in the moors as a competetive player if not amongst the most powerful on the field. But humbly and with the greatest of respect , if you look at Orion's last two posts there is a possibility that he just doesnt get it.

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No, I was really just not connecting the morale issue. But, going back and rereading my response to your initial question on Audacity - I may cheaped out on the answer.

The answer is a little more complex than just pushing audacity onto gear and forcing the grind for both Freep and Creeps. Your question is completely valid, and I apologize for not spending more time on answering. So here, is a more complete answer.

We are currently weighing an overhaul of Audacity and there are some considerations that we need to look at in so doing. Some players, not all would like to be able to wear the armour they earn in the Ettenmoors in the normal world. This causes a number of balance problems going the other way because the gear, as it is now, while taking a long time to earn would be very potent if we just allowed it on the Freep Side PvE. More complications ensue when you bump the level cap or ilevel cap between level bumps...

We have this asymmetrical problem with levelling where, as you astutely point out, creeps would only have to do this once per alt and freeps would have to do it every level or iLevel bump per alt - unless we added in another levelling vector for creeps to go through at level bumps.

We are debating now what that solution is and the discussions about PvMP missions, potential allegiances, and the like all tie into that discussion.

Bottom line, we do not want to keep the asymmetrical advancement in place because it creates too many headaches. So we are working on a solution.

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Originally Posted by Degelhil

I think the popularity stands and falls with good level scaling. For epic battles and the moors.

Will we see some changes here? If we'd have a good scaling system we could use it elsewhere e.g. instances.

Have a nice day!

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This comes up often in our discussions. We want to, it is on a wants board...but no movement yet.

you've really implemented some long overdue changes and overall its been a plus.

However that being said, not being able to use skills in pvp combat due to lag makes the game almost unplayable and all changes are for nothing when players just log off to go play another game.

several of my old friends returned to try the new changes on their old creeps and after experiencing the lag just said no thanks.

thats not good.

Hi,

I just want to ask if reaver's enhanced skill: devastating strike is bugged.

The trait does not increase damage like it said it would.

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Originally Posted by Xerxes2007

Sure, thanks for asking. The thing that happens to me when I go to play as a fairly casual pvp'er is that I am quickly targeted and killed because my health bar is lower than that of my more serious companions in the higher level pvp gear thanks to the purple gear I'm wearing.

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I don't think that will be the case. There used to be that element, years ago, before morale ballooned to extraordinarily high numbers. You could easily distinguish between say, a 10k freep and a 7k freep by glancing at the vitals bar. But the numbers are so high now you don't generally have time to take them in and use them as a metric for target/threat evaluation. Even Ranks (low to high) don't play much of a part any more, at least to the same extent.

More than likely your toon's name is simply being 'remembered', because your squishier than others - owing to the reasons you stated. When spotted 'easy kills' get ratted very quickly.

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Originally Posted by SSG_Orion

Thanks for clearing that up. There isn't any intention of increasing vitality or morale on the starter gear right now.

This is certainly something that we can look at moving forward, but there would likely be other stat adjustments made to the gear to accommodate an alteration in the vitality and morale.

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Thanks for your reply and I'm not going to be one of those guys that unloads on you for telling me something I don't want to hear. But I am going to keep it real with you and tell you that an audacity increase alone isn't going to fix the problem you are attempting to address. Any amount of focus fire assuming a certain level players doing it will defeat audacity. The issue has more to do with how players can easily identify the low audacity players and target them accordingly. This is done through the amount of morale. If the purple gear player is still the one getting targeted first and repeatedly, them knowing they have more audacity isn't going to make them want to play any more.

I recently created a new creep character to see how some of the recent changes are impacting the new player experience, have put in maybe 30 hours so far. Just want to say that having more skills available at lower ranks and the additional ways to earn comms early on are both fantastic changes. The new player experience today vs. a year ago is night and day.

One of the major problems with PvP that makes balancing so difficult is that the freep grind is still tremendous. Even if t4 gear were free and everything else remains as it is now, I think creeps would continue to dominate the map and the majority of fights. This is because even if freeps have max aud, they are pretty useless without legendaries, trait points, and virtues, and this assumes the player has also leveled to 140.

And even with that, this update requires freep groups to have the right composition in order to achieve success, unless they are winning simply with numbers. But having the right composition is uncommon for most freep groups. For example, it's common that pug raids/froups will have no rk healers and no captains. Brawlers, if traited and played properly, are another very useful class this update, though it's no surprise that there's a shortage of them considering it's a new class, but it highlights the point that getting a toon pvp ready on freepside is very grindy and a big time sink, which explains the shortage of a variety of classes.

When a group on creepside is missing a class, it's not hard for someone to alt to what is needed, especially with the recent changes that allow all skills to be purchased at r5. But when a freep group is missing a class, it usually means they just have to go without.

By way of a kind of summary, I'd like for Orion and others to consider this point: in theory, it would not be hard to get a brand new ftp creep pvp ready (especially with shuffling/camping gv being that way it is) in one day. Would it even be possible to get a ftp freep pvp ready in one day? In one week? Even if it were actually possible, how practical is it? And for players that simply want to pvp, how enticing does the prospect of all the grind look, just to get another class up to par because the main class you play is not wanted/needed?



One further consideration I'd mention about the cost of audacity gear for freepside is that freeps typically have to purchase two sets of gear (for dps classes one set of glass and one set of mits, for other classes one set of dps gear and one set of healing gear, etc.) whereas the aud upgrades for creeps contribute to whatever spec they choose.