So the up coming new class is Corsair?

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Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU

And I, personally, think that's facile as it's far too simplistic. Redemption should take a lot more than "oh all right then" (which is all you're offering here, no better than an excuse) and certainly in Tolkien generally some sins are so grievous that they can only be redeemed in death (as with Boromir's heroic last stand, for example, which paid for what he'd done earlier). Again, the Corsairs were bad people and Tolkien treats them as such - not just misled or dragged into it against their will (so not like that nameless Haradrim soldier who Sam sees lying dead, symbolising all the other countless victims of Sauron's malice, cruelty and warmongering) but actually bad which of course they are, given what they do for a living. They traffic in human suffering for profit. In the context of a culture that'd been influenced by Sauron for a very long time indeed it should be no surprise that that'd have been normalised, but you're busily trying to whitewash that out.

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I'd like to see some source for those remarks. (That come on a bit hostile, what I mean is that I had only been led to believe that the corsairs and Umbar as a whole were only really spoken about in passing by Tolkien himself and no great detail was ever revealed)

Edit: Some googling and doing a wordsearch in the books doesn't really bring up any sort of black and whiteness that you're suggesting here but if you have a super secret source of corsair facts, I'd be happy to read it. The problem is that you've backed yourself into a corner where you're stuck trying to defend your argument that every single corsair, from the baby just born to the oldest amongst them is 100% evil and committed to the corsair way and this simply isn't true for any other faction or people in LOTR save for maybe the orcs and goblins, who were created/bred that way. Why would it be true for corsairs? It sounds like you just want something other than corsair.

I like the name Corsair and if indeed pirate themed class is coming that should be fun, however while I like the name i agree with some others that it better if was called a "Mariner" class.

I have noting against Corsair, the more different classes and races -the better.

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That's right," said Gandalf. "Let's have no more argument. I have chosen Mr. Baggins and that ought to be enough for all of you. If I say he is a Burglar, a Burglar he is, or will be when the time comes. There is a lot more in him than you guess, and a deal more than he has any idea of himself.

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His small hand would not close about it for it was a large and heavy gem; but he lifted it, shut his eyes, and put it in his deepest pocket. "Now I am a burglar indeed!" thought he. "But I suppose I must tell the dwarves about it-some time. They did say I could pick and choose my own share; and I think I would choose this, if they took all the rest!

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I would say the Burglar class in Middle Earth is comprised of goodly people with rather excellent skill at getting about unheard and unseen. In time of urgent need and opportunity, they are wont to acquire things in the possession of evil persons or beasts in a manner that leaves the burglar undetected. Though not soldiers by trade, if assailed, they will most certainly defend themselves using guile and, when absolutely necessary, violence.

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Burglary entails entering a structure to commit a crime, usually theft, but does not intrinsically require an act of violence. Robbery entails using violence, or the threat of violence, against a person during an act of theft but need not occur within a structure.

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If the game writers use that term Corsair for the upcoming class, they will probably justify it based on the French Corsair, not the Barbary Corsair. The rational probably goes something like this: Corsairs were French privateers. Privateers are legitimate combatants serving under a crown. Therefore, corsairs are legitimate combatants serving under a crown.

Also: Corsairs are French privateers. Privateers are not inherently good or evil. Therefore, Corsairs are not inherently good or evil.

I am rather unhappy with these syllogisms because they hinge on a neutral definition of privateer. Yet, I started this post by turning burglar into a goodly vocation!

Words are like snakes that writhe in your hands. That is an observation, not an excuse.

Main source of whole idea about evil Umbar and evil corsars comes from black numenorians controling this region. But even Tolkien never say what all people here was evil. Numenorian people of Umbar fight with Mordor and have great battles against evil. Aragorn made peace with Harad after all, so he can consider what both countries can coexist without wars.

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Originally Posted by Atonu

I'd like to see some source for those remarks. (That come on a bit hostile, what I mean is that I had only been led to believe that the corsairs and Umbar as a whole were only really spoken about in passing by Tolkien himself and no great detail was ever revealed)

Edit: Some googling and doing a wordsearch in the books doesn't really bring up any sort of black and whiteness that you're suggesting here but if you have a super secret source of corsair facts, I'd be happy to read it. The problem is that you've backed yourself into a corner where you're stuck trying to defend your argument that every single corsair, from the baby just born to the oldest amongst them is 100% evil and committed to the corsair way and this simply isn't true for any other faction or people in LOTR save for maybe the orcs and goblins, who were created/bred that way. Why would it be true for corsairs? It sounds like you just want something other than corsair.

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Sauron's own followers and cultures influenced by him routinely enslaved people. Not sure why that should come as news to you, And in the real-life past, pirates from cultures which featured slavery would commonly sell people they captured as slaves and that's without needing a demonic super-villain to influence them into doing stuff like that. It's just the profit motive, as slaves have value.

Don't strawman what I said, I didn't say "100% evil" - I said they were bad people. Because they do bad things. And Tolkien treats them as bad people, so it's not for you to pretend otherwise. And there's this:

'To every ship they came that was drawn up, and then they passed over the
water to those that were anchored; and all the mariners were filled with a
madness of terror and leaped overboard, save the slaves chained to the oars.'

- ROTK, 'The Last Debate'

So yeah, the Corsair ships were rowed by galley-slaves (something that was infamously awful in real life and this alludes to that). The deal is here, it's strongly hinted that the Haradrim in general *aren't* all bad (Tolkien made a point of doing that) but the Corsairs aren't your average Haradrim, they're villainous - cruel and ruthless pirates. And let's face it, pirates generally have a reputation for being ruthless cutthroats, so where on earth did you get the idea that any pirate would be the sort of person that Tolkien's Elves might find welcome company?

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Originally Posted by SophieTheEnchantress

Also: Corsairs are French privateers. Privateers are not inherently good or evil. Therefore, Corsairs are not inherently good or evil.

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Total, utter context failure. The Barbary Corsairs were Muslim pirates operating out of ports in North Africa and Harad is basically Middle-earth's Africa: hence the war-elephants, the fierce-looking dudes with scimitars, and the pirates operating from Umbar. The analogy could hardly be more obvious.

There are no other Corsairs in this setting. Unless you mean some conveniently invented nonsense just to give you an excuse...

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Originally Posted by Elmagor

Main source of whole idea about evil Umbar and evil corsars comes from black numenorians controling this region. But even Tolkien never say what all people here was evil. Numenorian people of Umbar fight with Mordor and have great battles against evil. Aragorn made peace with Harad after all, so he can consider what both countries can coexist without wars.

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Err... no, the idea comes from reading LOTR itself and sure, Aragorn could make peace with the Haradrim in general but one thing that couldn't coexist is the pirates! I'm getting real tired of people equivocating between the Haradrim in general and the pirates in particular.

Plus Aragorn did have to go into the South to fight *somebody*, later...

So it's been another day and this thread has become a giant "missing the point" apparently. No one has a problem with a new raced based on Southern fighting style. No one is saying there can't be a good Southern person. No one is saying there can't be a "fresh" "novice" Corsair who only ended up on a ship by accident but they want no part of it. Literally no one said that. We only ever said, in that case, they're no longer a Corsair or never has been and they wouldn't even describe themselves as a Corsair. This name is associated with evil - evil of different degrees, but yeah, a dubious moral compass (which Jajax and his brother aren't except from). It's literally the term for a pirate. That's it. End of it.

And if they haven't cut ties with their culture and still wanna be Corsairs because they're proud of their lifestyle/heritage (that would be Jajax and his brother...) then that means they're still intending to commit some crimes, of different severity and maybe less severe than under Sauron but still crimes because being a Corsair means commiting some crimes, hence not reformed good guys. If they've reforemed, then that means they cut ties with the Corsair culture and left the pirate life behind them. They wouldn't be proud of it and they wouldn't introduce themselves as Corsairs because that's the equivalent of a reformed, ashamed murderer introducing themselves as a Murderer and being accepted as such by random people they meet no less. You people serious? You can't have both at once, what's so hard to understand here?

Loremaster, Hunter, Stout-axe, Guardian, Rune-keeper, Champion, Captain, Warden, Minstrel, Beorning... Does any of it sound wrong to you, when put in the mouth of NPCs when they address you? Does any of it should evoke doubt and fear? No. Burglar is the only one that's morally shady rather than truly neutral but has a lore excuse, a bit far-fetched, but it's still a good excuse, and this entire burglar on hire thing from the Hobbit paints them as an adventurer for hire more than a burglar who is supposed to burgle people's homes, so OK. If Gandalf and the dwarves can speak so casually about a "burglar" then that means people of Eriador would too and it's a known, somewhat respected service that doesn't have too many bad connotations. Brawler is a weird one too, but it can easily refer to a common term for an adventurous, loud sort, rather than someone who is bad news. (I mean, never played a Brawler, but I guess something like this may be implied somewhere?)

CORSAIR? That would be the first one, if a class was actually called that. A giant laughable unbelievable nonsense coming from the mouth of every single NPC who would address me as such but instead they should barricade their doors at first mention of that word. If that can happen, then a playable orc, sorcerer or even Cargul can happen too, because why not? If a new class is being called a Corsair, then I want to play my orc, uruk, sorcerer and more. Because there is literally no reason why I shouldn't. Would be the same stupid thing between my PC and NPCs, just like with a race named Corsair. (Personally, no matter what's currently in their files, I believe SSG will call this class something else, no matter what's it's based on. Well, at least I don't expect they would just gone bonkers like that, though with some recent decisions who can tell since there is some amount of unexpected confusion and inconsistency lately with some of their choices... In any case, it's amusingly shocking to go through this thread and so many people jump straight into the fray to defend a Corsair name, like it's no big deal and something that was always there in the game... when it clearly wasn't)

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Originally Posted by Atonu

This argument is pointless, I've already given 5-6 reasonable explanations of how someone aligned with the corsairs originally, could come to see things in a different light. Since you like history so much instead of lore, you'd claim that in the history of the world, there has been been one person who maybe did subscribe to beliefs of their nation that changed sides when they saw reality? Would the free people be quick to trust them? of course not, but they aren't quick to trust anyone.. in case you hadn't noticed much of the world is pretty distrustful of outsiders in general but as Tolkien was a huge fan of, deeds speak louder than words. Ultimately there are many good reasons a corsair may start doing good deeds, even if its simply repayment for a kindness or mercy shown to them and then get swept up in the adventure. As someone pointed out above, every class/race has a pretty flimsy reason to be involved, that is just the nature of it being a game.

Edit: We haven't even factored in that if its not a class/race combo, then its likely the player corsairs may never have been a corsair in the way we understand it at all, maybe some random retired corsair taught them the fighting style and tools to survive in exchange for pie and ale. As I said before there are many viable hooks that make perfect sense, not just the one that you envision every corsair ever born must subscribe to.

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We've factored it all in and it still doesn't change the fact a word Corsair is bad news, is a negative term, and no NPC should take it lightly, as if they were just unique adventurers you might ask for help. Literally no sane person would say any of that to a CORSAIR they just met. But if it's so unthinkable to you and you still want this class to be called a Corsair (why not something different?) then I want my sorcerer or Cargul class, pronto, it would be fun, and if nothing matters anymore, then why not.

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Originally Posted by TesalionLortus

If a new class is being called a Corsair, then I want to play my orc, uruk, sorcerer and more.

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If people are so keen on a pirate class because pirates are supposedly cool then can we have ninjas, cowboys and spacemen as well? :D

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Originally Posted by Elmagor

Main source of whole idea about evil Umbar and evil corsars comes from black numenorians controling this region. But even Tolkien never say what all people here was evil. Numenorian people of Umbar fight with Mordor and have great battles against evil. Aragorn made peace with Harad after all, so he can consider what both countries can coexist without wars.

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Tolkien didn't yeah, I think he just said Black Numenoreans, as in after Castamir, became the Corsairs, and that alone is clearly just a giant simplification for the sake of simplicity, since any of such people would then mix up with locals rather than just remain of "Numenorean/Gondorian" stock, and Tolkien's usage of Black Numenoreans would extend to all corrupted peoples who shared some blood with either actual Black Numenoreans (going back to Numenor) or later corrupted Gondorians. And while he clearly based his Corsairs of the later period on the likes of cruel Berbers - someone correct me if I'm wrong - but he didn't exactly specify where the entire idea of a piracy came from. Sure, Gondorians were mariners but it's a huge jump from military rebel Castamir-aligned forces butthurt about their loss to outright pirates known as the Corsairs, scourge of the seas. I don't think Tolkien really solved that "transition" he merely said it happened. Now, the devs, are clearly interested to solve that transition and what they're telling you - if you pay attention to the game - is that the cruel Corsair/pirate culture of some prominence is much older than Castamir and Gondor itself. One of the Nine was a Corsair, so powerful and cruel and influential (probably controlled a large part of the sea) that Sauron bestowed him with his ring. Henceforth - it wasn't just that Castamir rebels were ruled by an evil "Black Numenorean" commander and started to do evil, it's an entire generational cultural thing, once they mixed up with local culture of already existing Corsairs. It's a massive generational culture of robbery, plunder and murder, with the entire Castamir angle only thrown into that entire bag of bad things. A Black Numenorean and a Sauron thrall in charge only make it worse, effectively turning them into well organized evil empire, but it's been pretty BAD and EVIL already. It's like a THING. They're the Corsairs. Feared by Westerners and Haradrim alike. Just a few bad Black Numenoreans controlling the region, they're just mind controlling everyone, not part of an entire culture... yeah, sure.

I still have hope in the devs writing good, complex stories (not just some fanservice stories) and it's threads like this that make me wish the devs had the PC (and our not-named-a-Corsair Corsair-based class) run into Jajax after he just raided and robbed one of the non-Gondorian villages because he and his new crew of rebels trying to strike back against the Heirs needed... supplies :) Now that I think of it, please devs do that. There is opportunity for some challenging, different, interesting, conflicting stories here and we haven't really seen any of these for a while. I mean, in War of the Ring... things are pretty simple. Not even a moment to stop and confront such situations

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Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU

So yeah, the Corsair ships were rowed by galley-slaves (something that was infamously awful in real life and this alludes to that). The deal is here, it's strongly hinted that the Haradrim in general *aren't* all bad (Tolkien made a point of doing that) but the Corsairs aren't your average Haradrim, they're villainous - cruel and ruthless pirates. And let's face it, pirates generally have a reputation for being ruthless cutthroats, so where on earth did you get the idea that any pirate would be the sort of person that Tolkien's Elves might find welcome company?

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Yes, anyone with even a rudimentary interest in history would know just how horrible 'life' as a Barbary galley-slave must have been, and Tolkien's knowledge of history was far from rudimentary. These poor souls were chained to the oars and that was often where they remained, twenty-four hours a day, for the rest of their miserable lives. They were chained in rows and that was where they carried out all of their bodily functions, and they were whipped mercilessly if they were perceived to be not working hard enough. In situation like that where you'd expect that most of them would have welcomed death, many often survived for years.

Galleys in Roman times and the European galleys of the Middle Ages mostly used free men as rowers, sometimes resorting to the use of convicted criminals as slaves when manpower was short. Only the Barbary Corsairs used slaves exclusively.

You can be sure that when Tolkien wrote about his Corsairs, such horrific cruelty was imagined as being part of their makeup.

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Originally Posted by Wolfhelm

Yes, anyone with even a rudimentary interest in history would know just how horrible 'life' as a Barbary galley-slave must have been, and Tolkien's knowledge of history was far from rudimentary. These poor souls were chained to the oars and that was often where they remained, twenty-four hours a day, for the rest of their miserable lives. They were chained in rows and that was where they carried out all of their bodily functions, and they were whipped mercilessly if they were perceived to be not working hard enough. In situation like that where you'd expect that most of them would have welcomed death, many often survived for years.

Galleys in Roman times and the European galleys of the Middle Ages mostly used free men as rowers, sometimes resorting to the use of convicted criminals as slaves when manpower was short. Only the Barbary Corsairs used slaves exclusively.

You can be sure that when Tolkien wrote about his Corsairs, such horrific cruelty was imagined as being part of their makeup.

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I mean, this is already part of the game no less. People just need to replay that fake "Parley" with Balakhor... and how he brags about his many slaves who toil on his ship... and this is not something that Jajax's brother would be a stranger to, given his position in the ranks (with Jajax, no idea, it depends on whether they all have their own slaves or maybe some have their own autonomy and can opt out)

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Originally Posted by Flaxie

Somewhere, in all the ranks of the Corsairs, the devs could find that ONE redeemable person to be a player character.

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I don't buy into this "my character is the only Beorning or adventurous hobbit in the game", and it's definitely not the way most people view it either. Fact is you don't really need to, the Beornings were a people in the game, and while they weren't exactly numerous, there were probably a fair few of them. Adventurous hobbits were said to be rare by Tolkien, fair enough, but we know from the books that they certainly existed. We know five adventurous hobbits by name, and before you say they were reluctant adventurers, three of them weren't, they actually insisted on going, even when the danger involved was made abundantly clear to them in Rivendell. Bilbo and Frodo were both reluctant at first, until their Tookish side took over, and guess what, Tooks aren't exactly rare.

This "my character is one of a kind" mentality is just an excuse to justify all kinds of implausible storylines.

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Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU

If people are so keen on a pirate class because pirates are supposedly cool then can we have ninjas, cowboys and spacemen as well? :D

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Jimlaad the pirate is definitely a name to block off for this next excellent instalment of the lore.

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Originally Posted by Master of Lore-ons

Ninja's, Cowboys and Spacemen are something we are looking at but there are technical implications that prevent this lore breaking move until the next Rings of Power series is fully scripted and we can excuse it and milk it for what its worth

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There's an istari-man waiting in the sky, he like to come and see you but he thinks he'd blow our minds....

I think you guys are making way too big a deal over the name "Corsair". I know this is a forum for nerds, but even for us, making a big deal over this is reaching.

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Originally Posted by Wolfhelm

I don't buy into this "my character is the only Beorning or adventurous hobbit in the game", and it's definitely not the way most people view it either. Fact is you don't really need to, the Beornings were a people in the game, and while they weren't exactly numerous, there were probably a fair few of them. Adventurous hobbits were said to be rare by Tolkien, fair enough, but we know from the books that they certainly existed. We know five adventurous hobbits by name, and before you say they were reluctant adventurers, three of them weren't, they actually insisted on going, even when the danger involved was made abundantly clear to them in Rivendell. Bilbo and Frodo were both reluctant at first, until their Tookish side took over, and guess what, Tooks aren't exactly rare.

This "my character is one of a kind" mentality is just an excuse to justify all kinds of implausible storylines.

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I have played many characters in the years I've been in LoTRO's Middle Earth. Every one of them goes through the exact same experience. Because the story is written
as one person going through that experience. Do you really think thousands of people are THE Thane of Hytbold? Did that guy in Lhaunch really need his weapon fixed thousands
of times? Did that helpless bunch of lost fellows in Forochell need to be rescued over and over by thousands of people? No. The storyline follows one person. Each player
creates a character to fill that ONE roll. Yes, we create more than one character. Some of us create backstories to connect our "families" of characters and immerse ourselves
in their realities, like my own Gemgarden family of adventurous Hobbit siblings, but the storyline each follows when they go questing is a singular one.

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Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU

Total, utter context failure. The Barbary Corsairs were Muslim pirates operating out of ports in North Africa and Harad is basically Middle-earth's Africa: hence the war-elephants, the fierce-looking dudes with scimitars, and the pirates operating from Umbar. The analogy could hardly be more obvious.

There are no other Corsairs in this setting. Unless you mean some conveniently invented nonsense just to give you an excuse...

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You mean like half hobbit pirate beorning corsairs who waylay travelers and ransom them for honey berry pies? I really do not think that has anything to do with this discussion, Radhruin. Please try to remain on topic.

To my knowledge, all current class names hinge on a word Tolkien used in his stories, with the word broadly interpreted. Now that we know legendary items exist for Corsairs, the powers that be appear set to interpret the word Corsair very broadly, regardless of your opinion or mine.

Another thought occurs to me. Pirates are heavily used in Dungeons & Dragons Online, almost always for comedic affect. The writers on that side of the cubicle really enjoy the Pirates of the Caribbean version of pirates. It appears that outlook extends to this game. We may get kobolds next. Dunno.

To be clear, if we get a vote in the matter, I vote against using Corsair to name a Free Peoples class. Corsairs were horrible people, historically and in Middle Earth. These people made their fortunes by waylaying merchant ships, killing anyone who resisted, and stealing the cargo. Surviving passengers were almost always ransomed, slain, or sold into slavery. The fate of female passengers was particularly horrific. That was true from ancient times until modern times. To this very day, pirates sally forth from the coast of Africa. Tolkien chose that word to evoke a particular sense of evil men within the minds of readers. The fact a historical king or chieftain condoned the attacks in order to take a cut does not make such treatment of non-combatants right.

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Originally Posted by Flaxie

I have played many characters in the years I've been in LoTRO's Middle Earth. Every one of them goes through the exact same experience. Because the story is written
as one person going through that experience. Do you really think thousands of people are THE Thane of Hytbold? Did that guy in Lhaunch really need his weapon fixed thousands
of times? Did that helpless bunch of lost fellows in Forochell need to be rescued over and over by thousands of people? No. The storyline follows one person. Each player
creates a character to fill that ONE roll. Yes, we create more than one character. Some of us create backstories to connect our "families" of characters and immerse ourselves
in their realities, like my own Gemgarden family of adventurous Hobbit siblings, but the storyline each follows when they go questing is a singular one.

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What about the raid I was in the other day which had 3 hobbits, 2 beornings, 2 high elves and 2 stout-axes? Seems a strange mix of characters that are each only meant to be one offs.

What you're describing is obviously roleplay, which is fine but it's not my cup of tea and nor do most people engage in that type of gameplay. Yes the quests are written that way, and many of the situations would seem ridiculous if you'd imagined that everyone had been through the same experience, but most people just take it at face value and don't try to overthink it. For most people, if they see half a dozen hobbits wondering around Minas Tirith they don't really think anything of it, seeing just one orc in the same location though would look totally out of place. In Tolkien's world a corsair is not much better than an orc, and would be killed on sight in Gondor.

Burglar comes from The Hobbit, Bilbo being labeled as "the burglar" who is going to steal the Arkenstone from a dragon for Thorin and company. Because the dragon is "bad", then the burglar is "good" in our black and white, good versus evil mentality. My own burglar steals pies in the Shire. There's a whole Shire deed devoted to pie-stealing. Good? Evil? Pul-lease. It's just plain fun to play one.

Corsairs live in Umbar, where the next region expansion is going to be based. It would be silly to make a new Corsair class to play in a new Corsair region. What would be the distinction between PC and NPC? That would be like making an orc class for the Mordor expansion, but they did not do that. They made stout-axe dwarves as a new class instead.

Sailors might be needed to reach the new Umbar region, but that would only make sense if they expand upon ships and sailing. Still, there's all of Cirdan's shipbuilding elves plus the seafaring Numenorean humans that can act as the legitimate lore base for it, and maybe throw in river hobbits just to satisfy the people who keep begging for them. Whatever a new seafarer class would be called, it wouldn't be called Corsair. That wouldn't just break the lore, that would be "good vs. evil" cross-eyed.

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Originally Posted by Flaxie

I have played many characters in the years I've been in LoTRO's Middle Earth. Every one of them goes through the exact same experience. Because the story is written as one person going through that experience. Do you really think thousands of people are THE Thane of Hytbold? Did that guy in Lhaunch really need his weapon fixed thousands of times? Did that helpless bunch of lost fellows in Forochell need to be rescued over and over by thousands of people? No. The storyline follows one person. Each player creates a character to fill that ONE roll. Yes, we create more than one character. Some of us create backstories to connect our "families" of characters and immerse ourselves in their realities, like my own Gemgarden family of adventurous Hobbit siblings, but the storyline each follows when they go questing is a singular one.

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This argument fails, as it always has, because while you can pretend that your character is the only person having that specific set of adventures there are plainly other adventurers around, some similar to you. So if a 'Corsair' were to be a thing then your character would not be the only one of those. The game includes grouping, it's not built as a purely single-player experience and that's that.

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Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU

This argument fails, as it always has, because while you can pretend that your character is the only person having that specific set of adventures there are plainly other adventurers around, some similar to you. So if a 'Corsair' were to be a thing then your character would not be the only one of those. The game includes grouping, it's not built as a purely single-player experience and that's that.

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No, you simply cannot do that. As I said before, if we apply that logic to the rest of the game, the whole thing falls apart. It makes no sense at all that there are so many hobbits, dwarves, elves and men all running around ME saving the day. Remember in the battle for Helm's Deep when Aragorn said "We might lose, but don't worry because I have 6 fresh hobbits coming to save the day." Either you can separate lore from gameplay or you cannot, you cant pick and choose as it suits your purpose. If we start picking apart obvious gameplay systems and try to fit them into lore then like I said, the whole thing becomes a mess.

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Originally Posted by DavidmeetHal

I think you guys are making way too big a deal over the name "Corsair". I know this is a forum for nerds, but even for us, making a big deal over this is reaching.

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Not at all. The term corsair in the books is defined to be an obvious and specific connotation of an evil man (sailing slavers) there is no non-evil context used. If this had been Mariner or Privateer you might find less concern because they would have much less of a clearly evil connotation in the story. But IF this is indeed the naming of the new class there is no grey area (Corsair = Sailing Slaver).

If the new class is to be Corsair, but people think that those who have concerns over the name are making a fuss over nothing, how about we just rename it to Slave-master instead?

Got it yet?

Exactly!

Cheers :)

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Originally Posted by Fealhach

If the new class is to be Corsair, but people think that those who have concerns over the name are making a fuss over nothing, how about we just rename it to Slave-master instead?

Got it yet?

Exactly!

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Yep, I've already mentioned when my Uruk, Orc and Angmarim Sorcerer classes which would be equally silly when interacting with Elrond and the like but apparently the underlying difference between that and a class named a Guardian or Beorning is too difficult to grasp.

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Originally Posted by TesalionLortus

Yep, I've already mentioned when my Uruk, Orc and Angmarim Sorcerer classes which would be equally silly when interacting with Elrond and the like but apparently the underlying difference between that and a class named a Guardian or Beorning is too difficult to grasp.

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Do all corsairs carry around a name badge identifying themselves and a list of their past crimes?