Names in Middle-Earth, Quick Guide

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Originally Posted by Porlock

I don't know if Berephon has sources for Mercian, and mine are primarily Northumbrian, so he may correct these, but...

Horse-thief is going to be rather boring.

Horse = hors or hengest (yes, Hengstacer :)) or stod or any variety of things for more specific meanings
Thief = theof (nima also works, as it's used in a few places to mean "one who takes")

So, horse-thief is Stodtheof. We can get more specific if you'd like to specific what gender, color, or whatnot you want to steal.

Orc-hunter is a bit tricky, because we have to actually use the word "orc" if we want to be accurate, since Tolkien got the term from Beowulf (l. 112, "orcneas"). The other obvious choices are, uh... unsavory in Tolkien's world ("ylfe," "aelf," etc. -- "elf," more or less). I'm not seeing any potential names aside from "Orcnehunta" (which is just plain ugly) or "Aelfhunta" (which may get you murdered). I'd recommend just not doing anything with "orc" anywhere in the name. I mean, we can pick vaguely related terms, but given that Tolkien's orc wasn't directly based on anything Old English knew, it's not a good idea if you aim for any level of authenticity.

And Spiderpig? Lots of options.

For spider: Grytte, spithra, lobbe, renge
For pig: Swin, pecg, for, hogg, fearh (young pig), su (sow), bar (boar)

I'm a fan of the first ones together: Grytteswin. (Pronounced something like groo-tuh-sween, with a trilled R. Look up how to pronounce the letter Y in Old English for guidance on the first part.)

HOW'D I DO? :D

[Edit: As for a name for a burglar, I think Porlock is awesome. It's actually a reference to Kubla Khan, which featured a "Person from Porlock" as an unexpected and unwelcome visitor. What sort of visitor could be more of either of those than a burglar?

But, for your name, it depends on what sort of burglar you want to be. Do you want to be the violent sort? Or maybe a highwayman? "Wegreaf" is the term for "highway robbery," and while I can't find an OE term correlating to "highwayman," you could use "Wegreafer." On the other hand, if you want to be the sort who robs houses, Husbrycer (or Husbrecher, to mix up the spelling a bit) would work, as would Hlothere. Regntheof is a good one, too -- "downright thief," or "arch-theif." But, then, I have a penchant for choosing character names which are wholly unpronounceable, which doesn't work so well in groups. In that case, Gripend or Saetner(e) would work. (It's actually Saet(n)ere, but the n adds character and the final e just confuses people in-game.)]

[Edit #2: I've omitted macrons for two reasons. First, because it's just easier. Second, because you can't use them in-game anyway. Be aware that a number of these words have long vowels.]

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wow, awesome. i tihnk im goign to have to send you some cake or something ingame, seeing as we are on the same server (nimrodel represent!).

look out ofr a burglar from rohan named Stodtheof in the very near future!

Here is another pronunciation question.

How are the names of Elvish languages (i.e. Sindarin, Eldarin, Avarin) themselves pronounced? Are they subject to stress rules as all other words?

Basically, is it to be pronounced SEEN-da-reen or seen-DA-rin? Is the "-in" an Elvish suffix denoting a language, or an English one? If it's an English suffix thrown onto an Elvish word, I would think that it might no longer be subject to Elvish stress rules. If it's an Elvish suffix... what does it mean? :p

Thank you.

Berephon, am I correct in assuming Athdurub (warg-rider in Gathbúrz) means Warg-ruler?

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Originally Posted by lastalliance

Here is another pronunciation question.

How are the names of Elvish languages (i.e. Sindarin, Eldarin, Avarin) themselves pronounced? Are they subject to stress rules as all other words?

Basically, is it to be pronounced SEEN-da-reen or seen-DA-rin? Is the "-in" an Elvish suffix denoting a language, or an English one? If it's an English suffix thrown onto an Elvish word, I would think that it might no longer be subject to Elvish stress rules. If it's an Elvish suffix... what does it mean? :p

Thank you.

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it's sin-DUH-rin, I don't have the book next to me but as I recall the letter A isn't pronnounce as in "at" or "rat" but rather as in "barge". so for example Uhn-numi-nuhs rather then An-numi-nas, or Uh-mon Hen rather A-mon Hen.

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Originally Posted by lf2536

it's sin-DUH-rin, I don't have the book next to me but as I recall the letter A isn't pronnounce as in "at" or "rat" but rather as in "barge". so for example Uhn-numi-nuhs rather then An-numi-nas, or Uh-mon Hen rather A-mon Hen.

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I am aware of the pronunciation of the vowel "a". Sorry, to make it more clear, I should have written my phonetic examples as "SEEN-dah-reen" and "seen-DAH-rin". My question was not one of vowel pronunciation, but stress, more specifically the meaning of the "-in" suffix, whether or not it is an Elvish suffix, and whether or not it affects the normal stress rules.

Sorry if these have been posted before, I think the OP needs to be updated.

Ithil = Moon (Sindarin, Minas Ithil)
Naith = Spear-Point/Gore (Sindarin, Caras Galadhon sits in the "Naith" of Lorien's rivers (the Point) according to Haldir.)

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Originally Posted by lastalliance

I am aware of the pronunciation of the vowel "a". Sorry, to make it more clear, I should have written my phonetic examples as "SEEN-dah-reen" and "seen-DAH-rin". My question was not one of vowel pronunciation, but stress, more specifically the meaning of the "-in" suffix, whether or not it is an Elvish suffix, and whether or not it affects the normal stress rules.

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I'm going to hazard a guess, and hopefully Berephon will correct me if I am wrong once he's back from vacation, but based on what the elements of the word are I'm going to say that it's not a suffix.

Sindarin is built as follows:

Sin (plural for Sain) = many
Dar = to wait, to remain
in (plural for i) = those

so if I understand it correctly the word Sindarin means "those many who remain" so when you are saying Sindarin tongue/language you are basicly saying "the language of those many who remain".

so essentially: Eldarin = those of the Eldar, Noldorin = those of the Noldor and so on.

as to the stress, there is a stress on the i in the -in, and do to the way word breaks up it's going to be Sin-dar-in with the -in pronounced like the word inward.

"Sindar" is a Quenya word that means "grey people." It was an appellation the Noldor used for the elves who remained in Beleriand.

The Sindar called themselves Edhil ("Elves") or the Eglath ("Forsaken Ones").

If lf2536 is correct, that's a convenient cooincidence :) (and not the only one concerning the word "Sindar")

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Originally Posted by Inkling

"Sindar" is a Quenya word that means "grey people." It was an appellation the Noldor used for the elves who remained in Beleriand.

The Sindar called themselves Edhil ("Elves") or the Eglath ("Forsaken Ones").

If lf2536 is correct, that's a convenient cooincidence :) (and not the only one concerning the word "Sindar")

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This. I am not, unfortunately, familiar enough with Quenya to know the stress rules there.

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Originally Posted by Sylux14

Berephon, am I correct in assuming Athdurub (warg-rider in Gathbúrz) means Warg-ruler?

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Technically it means dog-ruler, but that is the closest we could come.

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Originally Posted by lastalliance

Here is another pronunciation question.

How are the names of Elvish languages (i.e. Sindarin, Eldarin, Avarin) themselves pronounced? Are they subject to stress rules as all other words?

Basically, is it to be pronounced SEEN-da-reen or seen-DA-rin? Is the "-in" an Elvish suffix denoting a language, or an English one? If it's an English suffix thrown onto an Elvish word, I would think that it might no longer be subject to Elvish stress rules. If it's an Elvish suffix... what does it mean? :p

Thank you.

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I believe in these the stress is on the second syllable, which would be unusual (though not unheard of) in Sindarin, but they are of Quenya origin, and I am not familiar with the stress rules in Quenya.

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Originally Posted by lastalliance

Here is another pronunciation question.

How are the names of Elvish languages (i.e. Sindarin, Eldarin, Avarin) themselves pronounced? Are they subject to stress rules as all other words?

Basically, is it to be pronounced SEEN-da-reen or seen-DA-rin? Is the "-in" an Elvish suffix denoting a language, or an English one? If it's an English suffix thrown onto an Elvish word, I would think that it might no longer be subject to Elvish stress rules. If it's an Elvish suffix... what does it mean? :p

Thank you.

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While I am certainly no expert, the way I have always read them to be pronounced is with the emphasis on the second syllable, with it split up like this: sin-DAR-in, el-DAR-in, a-VAR-in. This, of course, my be corruption from World of Warcraft coming into play. The name for one of their elvish peoples is the Sindorei, pronounced sin-DO-rei.

Berephon, somethings been nagging me for a while:


Do you pronounce Krahjarn "krah-yarn" or with a hard 'j' like "justice"?

There's one question I've had for a while that I think I know the answer to but would like to be certain about. In game, there are three weapons named Avorcrist, Avorlang, and Avorhigil. Near as I've been able to find, "Avor-" means unyielding, while "-crist" means cleaver, "-higil" means dagger, and "-lang"... I think is blade or sword?

So "Unyielding Cleaver", 'Unyielding Blade", and "Unyielding Dagger". Given that Avorcrist is a rather large sword, Avorlang is a standard size sword, and Avorhigil is a dagger, it would seem to fit. I'm just not 100% certain. :o

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Originally Posted by Sylux14

Berephon, somethings been nagging me for a while:


Do you pronounce Krahjarn "krah-yarn" or with a hard 'j' like "justice"?

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In Black Speech, j is as in justice. (In dwarf character names and anything Lossoth, it's y.)

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Originally Posted by Jadzi

There's one question I've had for a while that I think I know the answer to but would like to be certain about. In game, there are three weapons named Avorcrist, Avorlang, and Avorhigil. Near as I've been able to find, "Avor-" means unyielding, while "-crist" means cleaver, "-higil" means dagger, and "-lang"... I think is blade or sword?

So "Unyielding Cleaver", 'Unyielding Blade", and "Unyielding Dagger". Given that Avorcrist is a rather large sword, Avorlang is a standard size sword, and Avorhigil is a dagger, it would seem to fit. I'm just not 100% certain. :o

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Actually Avor is mutated from Avorn "Fast." Crist means both "Cleaver" and "Sword" (in this case, sword). Lang also means "Sword," though more in the sense of a cutlass or lighter sword. Higil is actually mutated from Sigil "Dagger," "Knife," or "Necklace" (Obviously not necklace in this case...though I usually reserve Sigil for necklaces.)

So it is "Fast Sword" for Avorcrist and Avorlang and "Fast Knife" for Avorhigil (which probably should be Avorhigil--though that spelling doesn't look right to me, for some reason.)

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Originally Posted by Berephon

Higil is actually mutated from Sigil "Dagger," "Knife," or "Necklace" (Obviously not necklace in this case...though I usually reserve Sigil for necklaces.)

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Wait, don't you mean you reserve Higil for necklaces? I see more necklaces with -higil than knives. It's all terribly confusing. :p (Ok, on Lorebook recount, it's 13 necklaces ending in higil and 15 knives.)

Speculation, does the sigil -> higil mutation have any significance? In other words, if -higil means 'of the neck' then does a knife ending in -higil imply 'throat cutter'?

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Originally Posted by Mad_Bombardier

Wait, don't you mean you reserve Higil for necklaces? I see more necklaces with -higil than knives. It's all terribly confusing. :p (Ok, on Lorebook recount, it's 13 necklaces ending in higil and 15 knives.)

Speculation, does the sigil -> higil mutation have any significance? In other words, if -higil means 'of the neck' then does a knife ending in -higil imply 'throat cutter'?

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No. higil = sigil. Just a linguistic mutation due to the structure of the compound. Avorhigil quite literally means Fast Knife (or Fast Necklace, if you prefer ;) ).

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Originally Posted by Berephon

Actually Avor is mutated from Avorn "Fast." Crist means both "Cleaver" and "Sword" (in this case, sword). Lang also means "Sword," though more in the sense of a cutlass or lighter sword. Higil is actually mutated from Sigil "Dagger," "Knife," or "Necklace" (Obviously not necklace in this case...though I usually reserve Sigil for necklaces.)

So it is "Fast Sword" for Avorcrist and Avorlang and "Fast Knife" for Avorhigil (which probably should be Avorhigil--though that spelling doesn't look right to me, for some reason.)

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Ahaaa. I was looking for the parts and knew about dropped/changed letters when combining, but not knowing what those letters were intended to be, it threw me off.

:D Thanks Berephon.

Berephon, what would be the Rohirric/Old English name for Woodland Fortress?

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Originally Posted by Sylux14

Berephon, what would be the Rohirric/Old English name for Woodland Fortress?

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according to this:
woodland - inwudu
fortress - getrymming

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Originally Posted by Sylux14

Berephon, what would be the Rohirric/Old English name for Woodland Fortress?

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Inwudu has more to do with a private woodland. I would go with Harad (wood), used in place names.

So Fortress of the Wood would be (using Sindarin word order and some of our custom mutations to actually make stuff like this--excepting Sindarin--readable) Harad-getrumming

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Originally Posted by Berephon

Inwudu has more to do with a private woodland. I would go with Harad (wood), used in place names.

So Fortress of the Wood would be (using Sindarin word order and some of our custom mutations to actually make stuff like this--excepting Sindarin--readable) Harad-getrumming

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If you put Harad out front, doesn't that make the "fortress" part the descriptor, i.e. Wood of the Fortress? That seems to be the way other Sindarin compound place names work.

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Originally Posted by Barruktp

If you put Harad out front, doesn't that make the "fortress" part the descriptor, i.e. Wood of the Fortress? That seems to be the way other Sindarin compound place names work.

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Nope, in Sindarin compounds (single word), the first noun almost always comes second. Hyphenated, Harad-getrumming would be treated as a single word. On the other hand, if it were not hyphenated (Harad Getrumming) you would be entirely correct.

This guy always gets a laugh from me, he's so vulgar...

"Latu gadhumerz bagu" approximately = "you foul (pile of ?) excrement"
"Kolfrangiz!" = carrier of syphilis

what a nasty little Orc he is, hope I get to kill him ;)