The other band is the Harlequins. Lolorndifney's band.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunslinger53
...btw...I'm on test server now if anyone wants to join me there.
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The other band is the Harlequins. Lolorndifney's band.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunslinger53
...btw...I'm on test server now if anyone wants to join me there.
As suggested, I attempted to play some of the submitted songs on Live servers. Running three clients I was hearing snaps/pops similar to the ones that players have been hearing on Bullroarer. When you play songs with multiple parts on Live, do you often run many clients at once (as you have been on Bullroarer)? Or do you have different people playing those parts and you only have one client running?
As far as the theorbo being out of tune, I'm not hearing that after playing through several submitted songs as well as chromatic scales using specific instrument pairings. Can you please be more specific with which notes on the theorbo you're hearing that sound out of tune?
Normally, I only hear the pops when I actually have the window up for any of the alts I run. Normally I run anywhere from 3-6 alts during a show. If I am queuing up a part on one of the alts while a song is playing, I will hear the noises on occasion, but rare if never while my main account window is up, which is the one with the volume turned on.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthCeltics
As for the theorbo being out of tune on a certain note, I cannot say. I did guess that it was either theo, lute, or harp that was the cause of the sour note but I could have missed something. I know it was bad somewhere in the song but wasn't able to narrow it down to which instrument was causing it so I basically took a guess. I will go back and see if I can figure it out since I am on the test server right now.
Okay, I pulled the entire band back online and tested the song several times. I was unable to recreated the bad note we heard yesterday. I don't know if it was a lagged note from one of the other bands which will often happen if someone moves while playing a song and then queues another song, or if someone might have accidentally hit a key on the keyboard to make a note play during my song, or if I am just losing my mind...Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthCeltics
None the less, I am sorry I wasted your time on it. I will be sure to double and triple check any more bugs I report to avoid this in the future.
(added information) I have run 6 total accounts on many occasions and rarely if ever hear a pop, however....I have been hearing it much more running 8 accounts on bullroarer and that is something I've not done yet live on Landroval so later today I will do that as well and post my findings. I would trust Lolorndifney on what she reported though, she said she is hearing it often and using three alts, something that she doesn't suffer on live from what she told me. I know she plays often with three alts on live so if she says its happening more on test server, I would think she is correct.
Play Love Comes Quickly. It has a repeated run on the bad note. One of these nights theorbo solo. Live vs BR. try playing it with just the theorbo and drums to isolate.
Couldn't agree more. I guess it comes down to personal preference, but I hope we can respect each other's approaches and musicality. Everyone has a different take on things, and wants their own sound. I don't envy the Turbine team at all, having to parse these different views and come up with final decisions that will most certainly disappoint some.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiritusLOTRO
This is especially problematic with electronic music, I've found. It can be very difficult to get a really solid, full sound with a rich dynamic range, even with good source midis. That's part of the problem with these decisions as a whole - there is such a broad variety of music out there, and everyone has their own personal flair they're trying to bring, that a system that satisfies some people will inevitably disappoint others.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiritusLOTRO
Well, I spent four hours on Bullroarer today. Would have been nice to see more people able to come out and test. I sent my opinions and concerns in on a bug report and will post later once I log and test all 8 accounts on live server to see if I am getting the static pops we are hearing on Bullroarer.
I am pleading with the developers to allow us to keep the old lute as it is on live along with the addition of the new lute once it goes live. I think we will lose much if we lose the live version lute. Nothing on test server can give the same brightness that it has provided for many of the different styles of music. Its more versatile than the new lute is going to be in my opinion.
Harp seems okay but I cannot say if it will go from a nice quiet build to a loud crescendo since most of my songs I have the volume pumped on the harp because of how quiet it is on live. I didn't get time to test it as I would have liked and will do so next build.
I still think the flute has too much of a breath sound on some of the notes which makes it more annoying than it should be but overall it, if that is removed or reduced it will be very nice.
I didn't get to test the clarinet as much as I would of liked, but for what I did get to test, my only complaint is it no longer works well with the flute when used to achieve a unique sound I have come to rely on for many of my melodies. Unless some small miracle happens somewhere down the line, more than a handful of my songs will be lessened when we lose the old clarinet and flute but such is life and I will learn to live with it I suppose. If anyone wants to know what I am talking about, just ask me in game on Landroval and I will boot up the alts and play a few songs for you.
The horn needs a bit more volume I think but the samples for it are really the high point in all of this for me. I love the new horn.
The theorbo sounds a bit muddy on the low end and pingy on the high end and overall the volumes don't seem to match up well on it. I think it will be very nice once the last few bugs are worked out.
The bagpipes seems a bit too low in volume and I am still hearing a small clicking when the notes first start up. Not as smooth as I would like but they are not bad either in my opinion other than the lowered volume.
Drums....
Let me first say that I split my cymbal sounds from the drums. I do this to lower the cymbals (shakers) down to +ppp+ or +pp+ to make them blend with the drums. They are much to loud on the test server and need lowered. They were quite overbearing on every one of my songs I tested today.
Cowbells, both of them, sound okay to me.
Back to the lute...
It no longer blends well with the harp and needs much work. Volume is still too loud in my opinion as you just cannot get a nice quiet build to crescendo with it on live. Its loud to start and gets nothing but louder. This is the one instrument that needs the most work on the test server I believe, and I wish the developers all the luck in the word with it as its been a problem child all along.
Overall I could have spent another few hours testing some smaller things but Bullroarer was closing down so I will wait until the next build to address some more solo's to see how well they work.
Final thoughts:
Let us keep the old lute no matter what and uh...oh yeah...bunny cosmetic pets!
Okay, I went onto Landroval with 8 accounts up and running. Played 18 songs, all 8 part songs. Not a single snap crackle or pop.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthCeltics
Fincin & i tested yesterday. i normally play four accounts (fewer or none if members of my band are available). I have experienced no clicks/pops on the live server.
This was recorded a week ago on the live server with four accounts: (My first time using Shadowplay to record) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pn5qLZmsycA
This was recorded yesterday on Bullroarer with the same four accounts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz2gUDh28ZQ
Also when playing solo classical spanish guitar music the difference between the lute on live and the new lute is quite apparent. The new lute doesn't do the music justice. That being said, I totally agree with Fincin to keep the old lute and give us the new lute as a separate instrument. The new lute is perfect for some types of music and not very good for most others.
i do know the devs are working hard to give us a music system we can be proud of. I applaud them for their efforts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthCeltics
I Orly and I posted earlier Orly ran theorbo and lute thru the scales playing one note at a time and it was the 12th note on the scale which Orly says is B4. It was off on both theorbo and lute.
After some testing yesterday on Bullroarer, and after having concerns about the new lute sound in previous test builds, I still feel the new lute does not sound very nice.
I personally feel most (if not all) of the music (both classical as well as more modern) I played on the new lute on Bullroarer does not sound as well as it does on the old lute.
I know this is just my personal opinion, but from what I read here on the forum it seems more people feel that way.
The idea has been put forth to keep both lute sounds in the new music system.
Would this be something that is viable? *looks at the devs*
If it is that would be great, as it would please both those who prefer the old lute, as well as those who prefer the new lute sound. (*smiles* You could give the Hobbits their old giant lute back with the old lute sound!)
Also it would take away almost all my worries about the new music system.
One of the bands I enjoy playing in, mainly plays (rock) music without the use of wind instruments.
Us bandmembers of that band have been feeling like we have been playing on borrowed time ever since the new lute sound was introduced in the test builds, and dread the day the new lute sounds goes live exclusively.
On the other hand, the bands I play in who use all instruments in their music are much more optimistic about the new instrument sounds.
As far as instrument volumes on Bullroarer, I feel like they have been balanced well enough for the last couple of builds!
They all seem to have been builds where volume levels of the different instruments are well within the working limits desired by people who make abc's.
Eventually some tweaking of old abc files will probably be required, but I feel the last builds on Bulroarer sounded well enough even without tweaking the abc's!
Thanks for making the video.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunslinger53
I didn't hear anything amiss until 1:33. Is that correct?
In the anomalies I heard, it seemed that the volume of one of the lutes was greatly increased, for maybe 10-20 ms, and then went back to normal.
I have no idea of all of the variables that determine the volume (gain) at any given time, but it seems that there may be a race condition in that logic.
So that's what the snap/pop sounds like. Yeah, not pretty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunslinger53
I really wish I could have gotten in and done some testing yesterday. Any word on when the next build will be available?
I completely agree with this except for the volumes. The new lute just does not have the ability to play a nice quiet sound. I tested my lute solo of Battle of Evermore by Led Zeppelin which starts out extremely quiet and builds as it plays from +ppp+ to +mf+. The new volumes on the lute just do not reflect appropriate volumes for soft build ups like that. It starts out loud and gets louder. I said this before in earlier posts and cannot stress it enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elwenwing
I am extremely hopeful we are allowed to keep our old lute. I am very fond of it and you are correct, it will hurt many bands and songs if we lose it completely. The new lute is just no substitute for the live version lute and just doesn't have the quality needed to cover many piano pieces such as ragtime music, or a clean electric guitar for rock in my opinion.
I may back up DarthCeltic's claim he heard snap-pops on Live. It's hard to say if it is the same cause on BR, as these were not heavy songs that would generate the same type of snap-pops on BR when heavy songs are played.
Harlequins tours multiple servers. We just finished our rounds for Saturday. It's more like a crackle. Load up an overseas web site, and you can hear it. Some type of audio priority or bandwidth sorting that interfers with the audio. This occurs on non-heavy songs on live, and does not appear to be affected by how big an audio load the multi-part song has.
My suspicion is now on akamai. Is it interferring with game audio?
If not that, then is there a tracking utility used by Turbine for keeping statistics? Something invisible to the user? Internal traffic not easily tracked by performance monitor? Like when upload/download traffic accessing a slow load web site?
You know the clientlauncher, how it caches game logic? Is that part of the problem? Sometimes it would bring up the ToS and CoC 'accept' window, and sometimes not. is this a related issue?
I realize QA does not have to answer, but it certainly merits their attention.
QA already has my evaluations on lute volume. All instrument evaluation even cowbell. It's up to them to decide if they want to increase lute volumes or not vs live.
Are you sure this isn't just a problem with your sound card? I never hear that when viewing videos on an overseas website.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolorndinfey
And in the case of LOTRO, the audio data isn't actually streamed to you from the server. The server just sends the notes (probably in something similar to .abc format) to your machine, and your machine synthesizes the notes and mixes them together. So I wouldn't expect the same behavior between LOTRO and audio streaming web sites.
I can't remember the origins of the phrase, "You look, but you do not see. You see, but you do not comprehend" comes to mind. The fault is partly to blame with the story teller. Let me try it another way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thurallor
My internet bandwidth is 50Mbps down, 10Mbps up.
cpu is intel i7 quad core @2GHz
gpu is Radeon HD 6770M
sound device is DFX Audio Enhancer 11.1
play a long song.
launch one client. access a web site, preferrably one that is overseas with lots of ads, audio component.
launch two clients. access a web site
...
launch 8 clients. access a web site
What you're saying is you've never heard interruptions, snap-pop, or crackle.
Is this true?
Here is my one and only suggestion - keep both the old and the new instruments. Let the players use them in a live situation with their songs to see how it all sounds.
I guess I only rarely launch more than one thing that has sound, because I can only listen to one thing at a time. And when I do, it's by accident.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolorndinfey
I have heard interruptions in audio streams before (e.g. when my internet bandwidth was exceeded, or my CPU was busy doing other things). What you describe as "snap-pop" and "crackle" may just be short interruptions. When you instantaneously cut an audio stream in or out you will hear a "pop".
I am curious. With update 16 supposedly coming out in April, whats the word with the music update?
I would hate to see it pushed through with so many problems and time is getting short. My concern is the upcoming music events.
Currently I am planing on holding Day on the Greenfields in the second week of May. It will be difficult if everyone has to redo or adjust their songs only a few weeks before the event, and then shortly after Weatherstock will be coming.
I would appreciate a blue name response to this :)
For U16, according to Frelorn "end of April ish" which I guess will give you a problem :(
Regarding Weatherstock (someone mentioned earlier) I can't give you the date but we have factored this stuff in and it will be held later than usual.
Aye, I know its slated for April-ish, but the music upgrade isn't ready yet, its getting close but still very in need of fixing before it goes live. If it goes live as is, its going to put a huge damper on things. That is why I am asking for a blue name response. I fear putting several weeks into planning and scheduling bands just to have to cancel at the last minute because they do push the new music system through.
And have the "blue names" given you any reason not to trust their judgment? It seems to me that they have been extremely diligent listening to the players' feedback and working to make the system the best it can be, and trying to find the best solutions for everyone. This process has gone far longer than I would have ever expected, and I've been very impressed with the dev team's persistence in making it right. The devs are very aware of the issues with the system, largely thanks to you, among others. Don't you think they're doing their best to get them resolved? With all the issues that have surfaced (and more surfacing even as others are resolved), I can't imagine it would be easy to form a timeline. Isn't it enough to know that they're doing as much as they can? I'm sure this "can of worms" that has been opened put a bit of a damper on their efforts too, don't you suppose?Quote:
Originally Posted by Emere
It also seems that Keli did give you helpful information regarding your concerns about Weatherstock, which you indifferently brushed off. Being delayed, that certainly buys the devs more time to refine the system, does it not? With the update still at least a month and a half away, that gives them plenty more time to make more fixes, find any newly-surfaced issues, and from there decide if it's in a state to be released to live.
Wow....Okay....I feel so scolded...who put bunny buttons in your pie?Quote:
Originally Posted by Erethal
Lets me answer you...
Not the point. I agree. Me too. Thank you. I do. Me either. Is that true? I do suppose.
Actually, Keli said they moved Weatherstock back because of this, however, my first concern was for Day on the Greenfields and Keli is correct saying its going to probably give me some trouble since the event I am responsible should come before Weatherstock. Yes, I agree, more time for them to fix and address issues. However I am still left wanting. You see.....If they update late in April, it will give very little time to adjust songs for the bands that wish to attend the Greenfields music event. This is of course providing they include the music patch in the update. I do not think I am stepping out of the bounds of good taste by asking for a "bluename" to give us some kind of quick update on what the plans are or when Bullroarer might be back up for further testing considering all has gone quiet since the last bullroarer update.
They said smaller update might happen before osgiliath, if not you must wait atleast till end of next month.
Unfortunately, with how troublesome and unpredictable this music update has proven to be, it will likely be inevitable that someone's event will be inconvenienced, since there will always be one upcoming. Here's to hoping you get your "It will/won't be ready in X weeks" response. For your sake, I do hope that it can be so predictable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emere
Being its only a once a year event and this would be my second year running it..me too :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Erethal
Hi all,
I want to thank you for all your dedication to testing and giving feedback on this system.
After the many tweaks that have been made to this system due to your feedback we finally feel it is in a state for Live release. It will be going out onto the Live servers in the next couple of weeks.
After that point we will continue to make tweaks as we are able based on the feedback you have given on off-notes or other issues and will be looking into adding another lute in a future update.
We hope that the new system going out before the U16 release will give you plenty of time to make the adjustments to your songs before the big festivals.
Cheers and thank you again for your help in improving this system!
Vyvyanne
*looks up at previous posts*Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyvyanne
From what I see, there is a major snap-pop issue...
And I'm sorry, but you're trying to fix what isn't broken.
I hope the old lute is brought back soon. This is going to ruin so many of my songs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyvyanne
This is sad news in my opinion. Of the few testers I seen on Bullroarer, I don't know any of them that would agree this is ready to go live. I spent quite a bit of time on Bullroarer during the last test sessions and the majority of the people there did not think this was ready to go live yet.
It seems we did little good...
All the same, thank you for the early warning and information. I/we do appreciate knowing in advance.
My finger is on the button to give up. You all have provided feedback since the last session that hopefully has been fixed, however it would be nice to have one last test. If the lute is really broken, and there are still a ton of problems, it sounds to me like turbine just wants to get this out of the way, whether they break to system or not... This time, I fear it may backfire on them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emere
Vvy, I am begging you, on behalf of what most of music community that has tested these songs has said, please do not release the music update yet. Wait until U16, or after U16.
And with that I must apologize. Based on everyone's feedback, I really did not expect that it would be viewed as ready. After all that's been done to get to this point, and while I am still impressed with the extent of their efforts, I thought that the team would see it through to everyone's satisfaction. Sadly it fell a bit short. I hope you can get the new system to work out for your concert, though I'm sure you and the other creative minds here will find a way to make it great.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emere
Lots of positives still came out of this update, and I look forward to seeing fixes for the lingering issues in the (predictably) near future. And of course, the new harp and the "new" lute. I understand the engineers probably needed to pull out to work on audio for new content, but I hope they make it back around very soon.
I am livid. I and others, put a lot of time into testing, submitting bug reports and suggestions. The whole idea behind the roll back the first time they released the new system was to balance it so there would be little need for changing our files.Quote:
Originally Posted by Erethal
Now its being pushed out early (before update 16) so we can adjust and change our files...one step forward, and two steps back.
I figured on some adjustments being needed but that was for volumes. I did not expect I was going to have to try and rebuild all my songs that use the lute as a piano or acoustic guitar. There just is no good replacement with the new system that I would use. That means downgrading those parts to the harp in the hopes it will at very least, suffice for the time being.
All said and done, it means that an estimated 80% of my song library just got tossed for the time being, until they get us a new lute that doesn't sound like a mix of two different instruments or they give us back the old lute.
I am not excited about this to say the least.
I didn't beta test anything, but from what I hear, you have every right to be, and I'm among you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emere
Well, I'm happy it's finally coming out. I feel like it's been held hostage by perfectionism long enough... it'll never be perfect but I think it's better than what was. People begged endlessly for a music system update... then when it came people complained endlessly about it. I realize these two groups may not overlap but it must be exhausting for the devs. that said, I have to admit to being impressed by some of the depth of feedback and testing that went on.
We all made do with the previous system, I think we can all manage with the new one. Overall its a great improvement and I look forward to playing with some new sounds and nuances.
There is a huge difference between perfectionism and acceptable. Agreed, it will never be perfect. Yes and no on the better than it was. I am all for the new horn which is by far more pleasing than before. That said, I am extremely unhappy I am losing my old lute. It covered many parts and the new lute I fear will not have the same versatility as the old one does. I think many solo's will die along with the old lute. I look forward to seeing how many really think its better once it goes live.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuelenion
Honestly speaking, I would have been much happier if they would have just fixed the missing notes on the clarinet and horn (cough and fart as I called them), tuned the clarinet and the pingy harp string...then, gave us another octave or two. That would have done more for the music than this update will ever do.
:( Let's hope there are significant improvements between the last beta version and what goes live.
I will say thank you! Thank you for all the extreme efforts you have gone through to try and please everyone (a daunting task at best) and for all the efforts put forth on the upgrades. I liked the first set of upgrades and like these even more! The intonation and sounds used are much more pleasant, and I am thankful for the testers who helped nix some bugs. No system will be perfect, but a few may cry out no matter what is done. Please do not let that deter you! I am very much looking forward to using the upgrades with my Bandmates and to a great Weatherstock. Enjoy some Honey, Devs, courtesy of Aegthil's Fool. Honeycakes from me will be along in the Post.
Honey
I'm very excited about the upcoming music changes. We've been waiting a long time for something new and finally the time has come. I'm not worried about any little problems that come out in release. I can tell that Turbine cares about the music system, so I'm sure they'll address any bugs in future patches, certainly in time for Weatherstock. Many thanks to the dev(s) who put their time and caring into this project.
Many thanks to the development team and Turbine management for sticking with this and giving us all these enhancements to our wonderful music system. It means a great deal!
Thank you for all your hard work!!!
Verybeary
Indeed, thank you so very much for your time and effort on this. I'm looking forward to experimenting with the new system and have heard much good about it. Hobbit pies to all the devs who've worked on this!
That said, please try to add the old (existing on live now) lute back in quickly. I think that will alleviate many complaints. Some bands have focused their sound around the mellow (even sometimes muddy) acoustics of the existing lute and harp. For them, this isn't so much tweaking old files as rediscovering their sound.
We want you to know that your time and effort is much appreciated! :)
(Now, if you could raise the dance timer from 3 minutes to 8-10 minutes, I'd be tickled pink! Most songs are 3.5 minutes and up, some running 7-8 minutes, and it is a pain to have to keep restarting a dance.)
Considering that this is now being pushed on the live servers without another round of testing and actually satisfactory comments (i'm not talking perfect, i'm just talking better than the old system) I assume that we'll get our music system replaced by something that is actually not better than the old, but something we'll get along with.
I don't see any reason to be thankfull for that, it's like thanking a thief for just stealing a few of your coins instead of the whole purse....
In-tune instruments! Yay! Can't wait to get them Live :D
Thank you so very very much for sticking with this, dear developers! <3
I think part of the problem here is that sometimes people hear without listening. From reading what the Devs said in this thread and from what I heard from them during beta testing it was pretty clear to me that as soon as they fixed the dropped notes problem to their satisfaction that they were going release the new system to live and address any further issues later. We managed to work around problems in the old system I'm sure we can do the same with the new one. If you go back to what the Devs said when they first started this they also made it clear we would most likely have to make changes to our files. They said they would "try" to gives us a system that would keep those changes to a minimum but I never heard them promise that we would'nt have to make changes. At least this time we get to work with in tune instruments. At this point it seems the plan is to get the new system on live and then make tweaks to it to solve any lingering problems.
I'd like to add a big thank you to the Devs for their hard work on this and for the way they kept us updated and worked with us to fix problems. Here's hoping that the new system is a success and they will address any issues we send in bug reports on quickly.
+1 Daylak
I'm happy to take what's pushed to live and work with it, as we all did with the existing system. Frankly, I'm grateful we still have a music system and devs that worked on it to improve it.
Re-introducing the old lute soon would be nice though :)
Thanks, Vyvyanne, DarthCeltic, Ion, Sweeneybard. Any dev that worked on this issue.
We did our part is help beta test the music system w/o any expectations of payment. We just wanted to make sure the new system is as best as it can be unlike the previous release attempt.
Cmon. It's going to be ok. We'll work around it, and make sure feedback is heard. One thing for them to listen, but is another issue on what fixes in what amount of time is practical for Turbine. Be proud. We did what we could.
Can BR be brought online for a couple of days for us to make notes on how to fix our current library of songs? Sounds like it's going to be a lot of work ahead for songwriters.
Secretly hoping they reduced the lute samples by 15%, adjusted volumes snuck in during this week's internal testing. Finger's crossed.
To be honest, it wont matter to me on the volumes for the lute. It sounds horrible with the different sounds it is making. I am sure some will tolerate the odd banjo sounding twang in their songs but I do not think I will be using it until it is fixed. Until the old lute is brought back, the only thing I think I can do to salvage some of my songs is to substitute the harp and it just doesn't fit well with a good chunk of my songs. I will give it a week or so after patch for redoing a few songs I guess, but my thought process right now is to take a leave of absence until things are fixed. I just cannot justify redoing a ton of songs right now, just to have to redo them again later when we get our old lute back or a new one to replace it and there is no telling how long that will take. Those that know me know that the music is 90% of my gaming in Lotro so for me its depressing to say the least.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolorndinfey
Sounds like a classical case of Turbine Beta Development. You're not there to give them feedback, so that they may make adjustments, you're there only so you can see what's coming your way. It has been this way for a very long time now. Don't be surprised.
What build would 15.3 be? 15.2b8? So what was that? 4 builds in 1 month? That's some pretty fast turn around if you ask me.
Haven't you worked in a team in real life? You present your case, show proof, offer suggestions, and respect the final decision of the supervisor. You don't always get what you want. Sometimes there are reasons outside of your presentation that determines the supervisor's final decision.
But as we last left the BR testing, files were sent in, notes were still dropping on heavy songs. Bad notes were illustrated and heard by dev's.
But versus 2 feedback rounds ago, notes dropping songs were playable. It was an improvement, but definitely still over the threshold causing snap-pop.
Perfectionist? How about calling a duck for what it is; a duck. There were problems, but it was the closest to a releasable version to date using the new system.
Lute/drum volume. Yup. loud vs LIVE. Twang in lute, theo as in bad notes? Yup. still there. I could not honestly vouch for the state of affairs from the last BR test rounds. I really hope they had a good week using the test files sent in and addressed all the concerns.
They went silent for a week w/o requesting a final set of feedback. They got all the files they heard problems on.
So here comes the roll out of 15.3. Will they reduce the sample file size of lute by another 15% to help eliminate snap-pop? Will they fix the sour notes of lute / theo? Will they add more bass to the new lute in the mid to low octaves? Will they soften the attack of the new banjo like lute in the upper octaves?
I'm an optimist. I like to think when they've heard the problem first hand, have files to duplicate the problem, and was silent for a week and weekend, that they've addressed the issues from the last BR test round.
If not?
Well, let's just say the forums will be active.
I agree, that the testing went well, feedback was sent in, we spent time with the devs and they did really well to fix the dropped not issues. I really hope they did address the volumes and bad notes. I wish I could share your optimism that they will be fixed soon or have already been fixed. But from the last beta we tested, I was not in the thought that the new system was an improvement yet. We spent over four hours playing songs that last test session and of the three bands there, not one was impressed or thought it was ready. There were a few things we liked but we all agreed there was much work left to be done. I will test again when it goes live but I am in the thought that its not something I can work with and be satisfied if no further changes were made since the last beta test. I didn't want something new, I wanted something better. I don't feel we got that except with the horn. That thing is amazing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolorndinfey
Again, thank you for your work. I know you have to balance a lot of different issues when tinkering with a system that has been largely left unaltered for so long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyvyanne
That being said, I would have preferred a delay until the off-timbre notes were properly addressed, but I came to the realization a bit ago that this wouldn't happen with U16. I understand that tweaking timbre is a difficult task when facing more pressing concerns like dropped notes (a more technical, non-artistic issue). I hope to work with your team to address these off-timbre notes as I've enumerated in previous posts (https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...83#post7317583) in future beta builds.
Regarding the "another lute," I recommend using the Gondorian Harp (Lyre) model as seen in DA as used by NPCs. It's a drastically different model from the other harps that could easily be seen as something other than a re-skinned lute, while using the harp animation resources you already have.
Great suggestion, Lifimun
Lyre
Lore friendly. Same string family. Love it. After U16 for consideration?
Some other considerations;
viola
cittern
laud
irish bouzouki
vihuela
guitar lute
bandolim
saz
tabouras
Maybe make this part of the Men of Bree rep reward set? Woodworkers craft wood rep items already, and viol's are in there but not playable? Personally I'd stay away from any string instrument that resembles the modern guilar.
http://i62.tinypic.com/11sypf4.jpg
*SIGH* What if we gave you bunny pets, would that satisfy you? /devsQuote:
Originally Posted by Emere
;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thurallor
Nah. Something will end up lost in the the beta translation and we end up with cow pattern piglets making squeeky oink oink noises instead. Don't forget the wiggling curly tails...
http://www.acuteaday.com/blog/wp-con...pig-101210.jpg
http://1funny.com/wp-content/uploads...let-guitar.jpg
I see two bunnies. How about you?
http://i62.tinypic.com/11sypf4.jpg
lol
~bunnyhugs~ to you Lolorndinfey!
Bullroarer is being used currently for Alpha testing of U16, however we have made some additional fixes and tweaks since you last Beta tested the 15.3 build. We have made many changes and improvements thanks to your feedback which is why we feel it is ready to move forward at this point and give the time that has been requested by you to adjust your songs before festival season.
Thanks so much to the team for their hard work on this. I know there are some who are still dissatisfied, but there are many of us who are ecstatic that the changes will finally be going live. The old system was as buggy as the new one is said to be, people are just more used to the old. We will adjust as we did before, only with some great improvements along the way. Thanks so much for finally letting this out of the cage!Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyvyanne
That is outstanding news indeed. I look forward to testing again. Thank you!Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyvyanne
This leads me to one of two conclusions...Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyvyanne
1) You've actually fixed all the bugs, but just don't have time for one last beta to get the OK from the music community, which I think would be a mistake, as, since these people have most likely been working with the music system longer than the team set to work on it(Just from observation, one can see this). I would think that perhaps the update should wait until the Beta for U16, and have access to it for the first build, just to be sure before releasing it the monday after U16.1.
2) You've decided to speed push this music update out in order to make room for U16 Beta/Alpha, and feel that a few small tweaks that don't make it much better at all have been applied, in hopes of keeping the storm which is the music community calm for the time being.
I'm not going to say I believe either more than the other, because I don't, but I must admit: I am VERY skeptical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbie1435
I think some of you are just missing one point entirely in the last days: that procedure is something normal and nothing specific to the Music system tests. The team is normally 2-3 builds ahead of Bullroarer as far as I know. It was the same with Helms Deep for example. So there is one other build normally on Alpha (might be not the case in this situation) and another build the team is currently working on. So the build the team had been working on while you had another build on Bullroarer. Your feedback is used in the build the team was working on at that moment and now it is going life with things they could edit because of the feedback in the last build on BR. So what will be on life shouldn't be the same as on BR. ????
I hope that helps a bit... ;)
True, but there could be something still off. They could have toned something up to much, removed a note that should have only been toned down. I still think it should get a final stamp of approval before release.Quote:
Originally Posted by Orodbril
Beorn bear hug, double pinchy cheeks and air kisses, have more pasta. You're so skinny!Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyvyanne
*shoulder slaps Emere* Told ya so.
big fan, Vyv. You rock, girl
http://i62.tinypic.com/11sypf4.jpg
*giggles and picks self up off the ground from the shoulder slap*Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolorndinfey
Hey..I ain' big nuff to be doin tha' to!
And I just want to apologize for being so stalwart and rude in my views, as I feel it is necessary. I'm very passionate about what I do, and I don't want to see years of hard work - not only from me, but other musicians as well - gone to waste for a crude, broken, buggy, and unfinished system.
Concerning additional instruments, there was this suggestion:
Please do not make us run through more hoops than necessary in order to be able to use (and acquire) any new instruments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolorndinfey
As it is now, players have to reach level 25 in order to play an almost-complete set of instruments (Moor Cowbell is at level 40, Pigborn at level 65(?) for non-minstrels) and this is doable even for the traveling musicians among us, it does not take long to reach level 25.
Introducing rep requirements for player music instruments is adding an unnecessary complexity to the game which would only be a pain in the bum.
It would be nice to have player music skill not be more dependent on toon level and deeds than it is now - it is after all a valid choice to take your time experiencing the game rather than race to level 100 (which works for some people).
That's easily remedied. Make it a vendor item.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulipan
But in keeping with the trend of other musical instruments in game, such as the Lorien clarinet/horn, Forochel harp, Wildermore harp, that's why I suggested it as the much easier to acquire Men of Bree faction.
Are you suggesting we take all those other instruments and make them readily available without the need to level or gain rep to use?
(An honest question. Not a dig.)
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I would be completely against this. It was enough work to level my 7 band alts to 25 just so I could entertain folks with song and be able to use all instruments except the moor cowbell on them. I sure as hell am not willing to grind them all up in level further just to use a new instrument. We entertain. Is that not enough work already? Its not as if we get any in game rewards for the many hours we already put into doing music. I have a better idea. Don't put any level or rep requirements on them and give me a dang bunny pet for all the years I already put into entertaining at shows! yup...bunnypets....yup!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolorndinfey
If I got it right, the instruments mentioned in the quote are cosmetic only, meaning they still play like the basic harps, clarinets and horns and do not require special skills. I do not mind that grind is needed if one fancies a new skin for an instrument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolorndinfey
What I am thinking of is if any functionally new instruments were added, e.g. a 2nd kind of lute or a vibraphone or a trombone or a hollow log which you hit with a thighbone or a Hammond Organ then I should prefer that the corresponding skills and basic varieties of these instruments were available to all without the need for further grind.
I would love new instrument "skins" being introduced this way. Especially if they were done in the same manner as Gleowine's Harp--which was unbound and tradeable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulipan
Huh? Focus, panda. Focus. Eyes on the prize. Vyv is probably having a good laugh at how quick we are to be distracted from the prize; the new music system pending in U15.3
Level 10 is about 2 hours work. 15 is 3-4, and 20 is about 8-9 hours. It depends if you're sight seeing, grinding virtues along the way, crafting.
It's about 4? trips to the south of the Barrows to get friend standing with MoB. 6-8 trips to get kindred. It all depends on how you manage loot and bag space in inventory.
Starting at level 18, you can pretty much do this to gain friend to kindred. It really is not hard to do in one game day. Don't forget to pack disease pots!
Accesss to non-cosmetic instruments has always been level driven. Minstrels have access to 7 instruments coming out of the training instance. Levels 10,15, 25 being mile marker levels for access to drum, theorbo, bagpipe. If you need multiples of those last instruments, then you'd need to grind. Otherwise it's 40 min to 1 hour of work to get out of the training instance.
The suggestion was for access to a hypothetical new lute embedded into the Men of Bree reputation system. Viol. The recipe is available right away for any woodworker of Master level (tier5).
Just a suggestion. It's easy to dismiss any suggestion. Suggest something where a minimum of work is needed by the dev's to implement this imaginary new lute?
Staying with the canon pattern so far, maybe make the new lute (Viol? Lyre?) level accessed at level 10, and a cosmetic recipe version from Men of Bree at Artisan level (Lyre?), or Master level (Viol?)using the existing Viol recipe as an output option? It really should be Journeyman and Expert respectively IMO.
Always thought it weird that to grind for Men of Bree rep, the woodworker recipes were so far out of range of the typical adventurer of level 18-25. Maybe this would fix it so the recipe levels in crafting matched what the adventuring toon level is? A similar situation is also inherent in the Mathom Society in the Shire with the cook rep recipe's.
*****
Have you noticed the snap-pop on Live has been drastically reduced lately? *gives evil eye to Turbine*...what did you do....?
http://i62.tinypic.com/11sypf4.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolorndinfey
Snap? Pop? You left out Crackle. Stop eating Rice Krispies while playing Lotro. There, problem solved. hehe
RIP Music System
2007-March 30, 2015
*offers Robbie1435 a replacement large fresh bowl of white milk soaked corn flakes to replace the yellow liquid one he had this morning*
http://www.heartinstitutehd.com/educ...cornflakes.jpg
Cmon. You haven't even heard a single note yet!?
http://i62.tinypic.com/11sypf4.jpg
I guess I'm the only one here that prefers the old system over any changes they could make.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolorndinfey
You are not alone Glorg....I know several who feel the same way.
I am withholding my judgement until I have heard several different songs... But I have one thing to say to you all.
How do you all feel about a Bluegrass Festival? ;)
My personal feelings are the new lute has ruined my bluegrass songs. Perhaps I am just too picky, but the odd twangy note of the new lute just doesn't cut it. I don't like the inconsistency. It either need to be one sound or the other, but not both lute and banjo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiepie
I also will be testing to see if the nice balance I was able to achieve on some of my songs between the bagpipe and horn to mimic a fiddle has been lost or if it still works.
I will post again later after I can patch and test.
Never should've been released. Sorry, Vyvyanne. Credibility just got paper thin. Still have faith you'll get on it though.
The current live release of U15.3 is worse than the last test on BR. Not by percentages, by factors.
The problem? Note drops and snap-pops. Back by a storm.
It is so bad Harlequins will stop all concerts in our 9 server tour on weekends until the situation is fixed.
The good news.
Octave ranges are matched across instruments. This was known during all BR tests.
Volume balancing is acceptable. Good job on that. Cudos to the team that made that possible.
The bad news.
Note drops are back. Even when lute is replaced with harp, which made some songs playable on BR, does not play on live without note drops.
Snap-pop has greatly increased in frequency and sevrity even in non-heavy songs.
Related to the snap-pop issue. Harlequin multi-part songs are heaviy polyphonic. In truth we are pretty much pushing the 6 note limit with each part. It seems the fix attempt in the current 15.3 has a lag in implementing the note cut off function, resulting in the audible snaps and pops.
i know many hate the tonal differences across octaves in the U15.3, which was worked on, I can tell. I'm one of the few that actually did not mind it so much, but one begins to question the judgement or wisdom of such a decision. Just to be clear. I can hear the fixes in the Theorbo and lute. I don't mind it, but it seems others do greatly.
It is baffling how you've had the identical files, heard the problems during the 3 tests on BR, notably the last test, and still claim the situation is better when by far is re-introduces known problems and is actually worse than the second last test on BR. I just don't know anymore.
We had a 15 song concert program during the last weekend. Pretty much all songs that played properly on live now all have snap-pop and note drop off in today's release. These songs were lighter than the files sent in to Q&A for comparison.
http://i62.tinypic.com/11sypf4.jpg
Yeah, ''da Bugans'' gang (Heavy Metal, Speed Metal) is totally out of there.
Our tunes won't work, at all, under these conditions.
We've got shows coming up on Landy and Sirannon, as well.
Dang, this was one of my favorite features of the game too. I guess we'll just have to play our songs on another game? :/
Imo, just revert back to the old system and scrap this idea.
Bring out some new instruments, perhaps, throw in some cool cosmetic ones that we can buy from the store and/or quest for. I was really expecting to see a neat Harp reward from Gondor. That was a weird exclusion.
Re-direct focus on other systems. It was an admirable and kind gesture, but let's not shoot ourselves in the food any-longer.
Please.
~ The Hobgoblin
I have to agree Lolorndinfey.
It should have never gone live with the current problems. I can confirm the note loss, though I didn't suffer it on many songs, it did occur. I also had a lot more of the snaps, pops, crackle rice crispy cereal noise on live today. More than I ever have in the past and this time on my main account which is rare. I would sometimes hear them when cycling through my alts, but very very rarely on my main. All volumes down and sound turned off on alt accounts.
The volumes were a lot better though I think the bagpipes are just a hair too low now in volume.
My other complaint is and will remain to be the lute. Its in need of some love at very least, that banjo sounding string is still there and just doesn't flow with the rest of the notes. I miss my old lute and had a ton of people agree during testing today that the loss of the old lute is going to wreck many songs.
The clarinet still has an odd sounding note as well. Third note from the top sounds ...odd...as if it was done on a synthesizer and done poorly. The rest of the clarinet is much better however.
The flute is still way too breathy on some notes. It kills me that its more than just a whisper of the total sound. Listen to any great flautist and it will not sound like some dwarf with a booger stuck in his nose trying to force air through it. It was bad enough on the old flute but seems more prevalent now but only on some of the notes, not all of them.
I have considered just hanging it up and quitting the music but I think it can still be made good. From the first beta to now is impressive to say the least considering all that was fixed. However I think it should have stayed in beta until more of the issues were addressed. For the time being, I will stick it out, but if things are not fixed in a timely manner, then I fear my days as a transcriber will be coming to an end.
I think the giving us back the old lute should be priority one right behind fixing the dropped notes and static pops that are occurring.
Once I can test with our famed Lifimun, I will repost about note loss as he tends to push the note limit more than anyone I know.
I agree with these sentiments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skoch
I assume this was meant to be "shoot ourselves in the FOOT", but as a hobbit, "Food" sounds much more tragic and apt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skoch
Strange, I was right there with you Fin and I didn't hear any dropped notes or snaps/pops.
I cannot say at this point I am for scrapping the new music system, it really does have too much potential and if we get the old lute back soon, all will be well. I agree with new stuff for us but really, redirecting the sound people to other things isn't going to make anything other than the sound better, and as far as I can tell, the game sounds are pretty much fine save the new music system. I say stick it out but get that old lute back on the table fast. Turn the bagpipes back up a notch in volume and fix the odd clarinet note. If those few things are done first along with figuring out why the static pops are happening and the few dropped notes, then we are in good shape.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skoch
Bottom line is its the sound people working on this. Its not as if they are out of their area of expertise. They surely wont be working on making the new instrument skins if that should happen, they wont be trying to balance pvp, so I say leave it be and fix the things that are most important. Static, dropped notes, and lute.
My only reservation is taking too long to do it. Music events are coming soon and if they would have listened to the beta testers that were doing the most testing, this would have been kept in beta until those things were fixed. That would have made the music events safe and most people happy.
I hadn't either until we played a few more songs after you left. I only had it on one song, but it did happen. Bagpipes dropped out on my song 10_TakeOnMe_Multi. It seemed they were pretty weak on 10_AintSeen_Multi as well and I didn't catch if it was just to low in volume on that one or actually was dropping notes, but I do trust Lolorndinfey. If she said notes were dropping on her songs then I believe her. I spent quite a bit of time with her last few test sessions and she pointed out a ton of things I missed until she pointed them out. If she said they are dropping, you can pretty much bet they were. Its like my lute solo I played when I first logged on, it dropped twice in the same spot on the song, but third time I played it all was fine. Don't know if it was a fluke on my internet connection or if it is something related in game. I will test more with Lifimun and see if he notices any drops on his songs. They push the note cap limit and Lifimun has pretty sharp ears, we will report back what we find with his songs once we can test some more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlor
I think the static pop sounds are more related to anyone running more than one account at a time. The more you run, the more you hear them. I noticed that on BR last time we tested. It shouldn't have any effect if the sounds are turned off on the alt accounts but it does none the less. I again, rarely ever heard them pre update on live, but today I was getting a bit more than normal. Enough to make it annoying.
I plan on writing about the new system over on LOTRO players.
As an overall system, I prefer the new system to our old system, but with conditions.
In general terms, this is an improved system on our old one. But it will only be glorious once all the irritants and tweaks have been found and ironed out. Volume level and balance is good, I'd agree that the Bagpipes need pushing up a little. Same level as the Horn.
I hear all the notes which are not consistant with the over all range of each instrument. I think only the Harp is free of any complaint from me. There are snaps and clicks aplenty, and the Pipe cut off is so short sometimes you can't even hear them play. Lute, Flute, Clarinet, Horn upper range, Pib has one or two, Theorbo all need their scales combed to find those that are obviously out of kilter. We shouldn't have to beg for these measures to be put in place, It should come as standard.
There is one last subject I'd like to broach. The direction and placement of your character in the audience of a playing band can alter what you hear. This is not a dropped notes and samples problem. It is a range at which the music is allowed to be heard by others. Turn to the right and you will hear less music in the ear that faces away from the band.
One funny quirk I did find was that standing in the center behind the back row of any playing band is probably the best place to hear the mix of all instruments playing. Please can you make it so that this mix can be heard by the entire audience standing in front?
I am happy with the system, I love the tuning. It can be made better.
Work in Progress and please lets keep working!
Given the inconsistency of the snap/click/pop reports, I wonder if this isn't just a performance issue. That would explain why the problem seems (by at least one observer) to be worse when running multiple clients. The dev team should try running multiple clients on an old, slow single-core machine to see if they can reproduce the problem.
**double submit**
I wish it was only a multi-account issue. Finished Harlequins testing and walked over to LBC's test, and there it is again. Snap-pops. That pretty much seals the deal there. Solo audience account, listening to a multi-box band?
***
Katiepie might've stumbled on an issue untouched so far on forums. I did notice the dev moving about, and started wondering after Katiepie mentioned it.
Did the devs touch the drop-off curve of the playing musician? I think it was linear before, where as IRL it's more inverse logarithmic. Most systems just approximate it with a linear curve, or exponential function. Most just use a linear function for speed. Is this related to the snap-pop issue?
***
Harlequins did rehearse during last week and prior to the weekend concert, did not notice any snap pop. In truth, when we had a larger audience, there were a few instances of snap-pop detected to a minute degree. We just chalked it off to lag from more peeps arriving on horseback to the show.
Could this be a case of something another dept is doing, that is affecting the music system? Statistics counter, graphic routine monitor? Something that would affect the maxsounds filter? Just a wild guess
http://i62.tinypic.com/11sypf4.jpg
I'm doing some extensive testing on live right now and am not hearing the snap-crackle, whether listening to myself or others. Loving the in-tune instruments that play nicely top to bottom. A few odd notes, but overall loving the new sounds.
I am tending to think its running multiple accounts that is doing it. Its much worse than before. I think if you do run multiple accounts, and then close all but one, the bug still exists. Logging out completely on the main account and back in seems to fix it. I can confirm it does exist. I run up to 8 accounts at once and before update, it was rare to hear it. Todays testing was terrible for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Summer_Beor
I do agree that overall, the new music shows much potential, but there is much I don't like as well. I hold to the opinion it should have been kept in beta for the time being. I rely on my alts often for shows and sometimes like to do impromptu shows just with my alts. Its much less enjoyable now with the extra noise and the new lute, which is not nearly as versatile as the old one was. Heavy metal sounds terrible on it, classical solos, bright piano, acoustic guitar, ect... and I am in the opinion, even my bluegrass songs don't sound as nice as before. Once the odd notes are gone, it may be a bit better but I want my old lute back as well. I think the new lute will work nicely for folk songs but aside from that, I've no use for it atm.
I have consistently run 8 accounts at once with little to no trouble, before update.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thurallor
Intel i5 3.2 ghz runs at about 45-60% usage with 8 accounts open and of my 16 gigs of ram, I only use up about 8-9 gigs with 8 accounts up depending on audience size. ISP speed is 50 mbps and has never been any trouble with 8 accounts up. Little to no lag with same amount of accounts up on Nvidia GTX 750ti gpu. Recon sound blaster 3-d sound card and no issues before except as I have stated above in previous posts, I would get an occasional pop/snap/crackle or whatever you wish to call it when cycling through the alt accounts. Was very rare I ever heard any noise when my mains account window was the current open window.
I always run with sound off and volumes turned down on my alt accounts.
Today however, was different. There were many small sound anomalies I could hear, just as we reported on the test server.
The only reason I haven't tried to run more accounts is that 8 seems to make the gpu a little warm and I like my graphics card so I don't wanna end up making gpu pie out of it, not to mention that trying to queue up parts on 8 accounts is already a tedious task in itself. :)
There is definitly something different with the way the 3D positioning of the audio is calculated:
If you have someone next to you playing a constant theorbo triller and you rotate slowly on your position it changes the frequency spectrum depending on your orientation,
the deep frequencies seem to be filtered out when you face that person directly and louder if the theorbo is somewhere in the back.
My guess why this might be the case:
There could be some offset in some channels that are mixed that leads to constructive/destructive interference of certain frequencies -
which actually shouldn't be the case because for every point-source of audio (or are those new tones stereo?) there should be only one contribution to the left and the right stereo channel.
Turbine, please take a look at the mixer and the 3D positioning and the changes you made there - I have a strong suspicion that there is something weird going on!
About the lute. From playing some of my solo's and listening to some others play it, what it sounds like to my ears is that the lower notes are being played at a normal volume, but when a higher note is played it's much louder. Almost like you're plucking the strings of the lower notes softly and when you play a higher note you pluck the string twice as hard. Does that make any sense? I'm just going by what my ears hear and my ears are'nt the best.
@Swagman,
Yes. It does sound like they tried to take our advice and mix in ratios of two samples, which can be really tricky.
Acoustic 101.
Hertz. 1 cycle per second. Human hearing is roughly 20Hz to 20,000Hz. Acoustic impedence (Z). Ratio of Pressure vs Volume(dimensional) flow. Double the same note. Add 3-6dB to the total audio volume. A higher octave C vs a lower octave C is roughly 1-4dB louder. Ever notice the professional singers turn their head from the microphone when singing a high note? A simple technique to equalizing the impression of an equal audio volume. Wind instruments produce sounds by the embouchure hole or reed, string instruments produce sounds by the string, bridge, body. You can tune a string instrument by it's harmonic properties. Wind vs string instruments have different impedence properties. Periodic vs standing waves.
In this case however, it sounds like the two samples were recorded at two different volumes, so when you mix in a lower octave volume audio sample, with a higher volume upper octave sample. that natural 1-4dB is amplified exponentially by the factor of the second higher volume sample. However, I don't believe this to be the case. Rather, they tried to equalize, but just didn't turn their digital heads far away enough from the microphone. Another possibility is that the harmonic tuning of the lute notes are off by each note and it's sister higher octave note.
*****
One post thought is that the lute previous to 15.3, it must've been a different instrument, a different string thickness. Synthesizer interpolation/extrapolation vs 15.3's live studio recordings with a higher sample quality. I wonder if Turbine used the exact same instrument and the same string thickness?
http://i62.tinypic.com/11sypf4.jpg
Personally I am NOT liking the new changes made to the player music system. Previous to latest update I had manually converted, re-arranged and tweaked over 140 tunes for playback on lute that NOW sound like they are being played back from inside a dented tin can. I am guessing that the abc's available on those download sites all suffer the same fate. Thanks for "fixing" something that wasn't really broken in the first place.
Regarding the random sound anomalies:
Once again I feel this seems to boil down to the debacle that was Update 15.
I have no idea how the outputted sound in the game really works - but for simplicity's sake, let's pretend all the sounds in lotro are outputted over 10 channels.
Before update 15 - it definitely seems like the player music system had its own reserved channels, let's say channels 7-10. Every other sound in the game shared the other 6 channels. Never the twain did meet.
After Update 15 and the associated debacle - every sound seems jumbled together over all 10 channels regardless of what "section" it belongs to.
Case in point:
Many of you know me and my band (Birds of a Feather), I play a lot in Bree Craft Hall (because I play with over 100 ping, it's better for the lag).
When I play, all 4 of my alts are completely muted, every audio slider is turned down in the options and every alt client is muted in the windows volume mixer also.
On my main, every volume slider except for UI sounds and player music is turned completely down - yet I will regularly hear crafting sounds bleeding into my music quite harshly - especially anvil strikes. But I also hear other sounds which, while I can't readily identify them, are clearly coming from an environment that is outside/seperate from the hall!
Regarding the instruments:
Overall I say they are improved for the better, but here are the things that niggle me;
Blending is worse - In the old system, I could place several midi tracks onto each instrument, and have my 5 players have a full sound that made it sound like more than 5 instruments are playing.
This new system with the same songs you hear the difference. No matter how many tracks are on each instrument, when you play the song you can tell - it's only 5 instruments. Which IMHO is not good for classical pieces, a staple for many.
And don't get me started on blending vocals with clar/flute - that's just horrible now. I'm sure many minstrels have lost once beautiful songs from their libraries because of this.
Flute - no longer bright enough, and please get rid of the annoying breath sounds! It's not a set of pan pipes - it's a flute!
Lute - is it a lute or is it a mandolin? Come on devs. It's got to be one or the other! Because trying to be both as it is right now makes it good for nothing!
Give old lute back as standard please.
Then turn this new lute into the complete mandolin it wants to be and let us buy that separately from a vendor. It would be great for harpsichord pieces etc.
Bagpipe - ridiculous cut out on short notes.
Horn - It's 97% absolutely fan-bloody-tastic! Except when you need it for those sustained background string notes then that pedantic pause (presumably imitating the player taking a breath) starts to annoy.
Back to the snap/pop issue. To the people who have observed this, have you tried increasing the priority of the LOTRO process?
I'm not sure how to do this on a Mac, but in Windows it's pretty easy.
- Right-click the taskbar and choose "Start Task Manager".
- Find the "lotroclient.exe" process. (You should do this before you load up multiple clients, so you will only see one "lotroclient.exe" process.)
- Right-click on it and choose "Set Priority -> High".
This obviously isn't a solution to the problem, but if it improves things, then it is a good clue for the devs.
Well okay now...
Today I did some testing with Green Hills Music Society and then with Les Beaux Chapeaux.
This is what was discovered with all of the testing.
The most distressing thing we confirmed today was that there is a note loss happening. We also discovered based on Lilikate's observation, that things sound better in back of the band, we also did not have the note loss happening when standing behind the band, only when in front of the band and only on a few songs. They were not note intensive songs either.
The second thing I noticed tonight is that while testing in the Shire homesteads, I did not get the terrible static sounds anymore than I did with the old system. I did seem to get a considerable amount more of it yesterday when I tested in Bree outside the Prancing Pony. I will go back and verify whether that is still happening or not. It seems to only occur while running more than two accounts at once but will further test it when I am free to do so this week.
Personal observations for each instrument. Keep in mind, these are my opinions...
Lute: Needs fixed on the wonky sounding notes and it is still too loud. Its been one of my biggest complaints and todays testing showed me how much I depended on the old lute to carry many of my songs. I want my old lute back more than anything else at this moment in time.
Harp: With the exception of the one pingy note that has never been fixed, I like the harp.
Theorbo: Seems okay to me and I didn't notice anything that really stood out as needing a quick fixing.
Horn: Sounds great, though I would want a bit more volume tweaking as its still too quite imo.
Bagpipes: Seem to not pick up very short notes as I had a bit of note loss on a few songs that are fast and use short notes. I would also like to see the volume tweaked up a notch on it.
Clarinet: Seems okay save one note near the top of the range (3rd from the top) which isn't consistent with the rest of the notes.
Drums and cowbells need the volume tweaked down a notch still.
Flute: would be okay if it wasn't for the booger caught in the nose breathing sound that comes with some of the notes. Its still way to breathy.
Pibgorn: Still needs burned and thrown away as I still do not like it. I haven't tested range on it but the volume is still too high imo.
To wrap it up a little - these are the most urgent fixes we need:
First:
The "standing behind the band means better music"-bug has to be fixed - it may be related to the snap-pops and other stuff - it indicates that there are fundamental bugs now in the sound system that have to be fixed before we can judge anything. (all the critics we have to the high pitched sound may be influenced by that)
Second:
The lute is broken now! The B's sound like they are from a different instrument.
Currently it is necessary to transpose songs to avoid the B-tones entirely to have a consistent sound - which is something we can't accept!
So this patch destroyed the one instrument that we all identify with the lotro music system.
Everything else doesn't seem as urgent to me as those 2 fixes.
Reposting here as this seems to be the proper thread:
I just played a few pieces and also noticed some things that need to be fixed.
1. The rattle is too loud compared to the rest of the drum set.
2. The bagpipe is too silent and all notes are cut off. Short notes aren't even audible because they are cut off right after the start so you see the note icons flying but there is no sound.
3. The flute lost its brightness and is too silent. It used to produce a cheerful sound which is now all muffled.
4. The lute sounds different than before, more like a mandolin. If this is the new sound - ok - I could live with that as long as it is consistant across all notes.
Apart from above issues I must say that this release is much better than the last official trial.
On a side note there is a client bug with player music now. In the audio options I have set my Lotro client to "mute" when it doesn't have focus. Still some notes are played which didn't happen in previous official updates (never tried Bullroarer). This is especially annoying when I have several clients running for my band and wonder where these disturbing sounds come from. First I thought it's the changed instruments but no, it's the broken "mute" mechanism. I already /bugged it.
Btw. here is a short example of the bagpipe issue. The cut off notes completely ruined this song:
Code:%abc-2.1
%%song-title Lucifer
%%song-composer Alan Parsons Project
%%song-duration 1:18
%%song-transcriber Tanada of Vanyar
%%abc-creator Maestro v2.1.1
%%abc-version 2.1
X: 10
T: Lucifer (1:18) - Lute
%%part-name Lute
C: Alan Parsons Project
Z: Tanada of Vanyar
M: 4/4
Q: 120
K: C maj
+ff+ z8 |
z8 |
z8 |
z8 |
z8 |
z8 |
z8 |
z8 |
z [F/A/d/] +f+ [F/A/d/] [FAd] +ff+ [F/A/d/] [F/A/d/] +fff+ [FAd] z z2 |
% Bar 10 (0:18)
z8 |
z +ff+ [F/A/d/] +f+ [F/A/d/] [FAd] +ff+ [F/A/d/] [F/A/d/] +fff+ [FAd] z z2 |
z8 |
z +ff+ [F/A/d/] +f+ [F/A/d/] [FAd] +ff+ [F/A/d/] [F/A/d/] +fff+ [FAd] z z2 |
z8 |
z +f+ [E/A/d/] +ff+ [E/A/d/] +fff+ [EAd] +ff+ [E/A/d/] +fff+ [E/A/d/] [E2A2d2] z2 |
z +f+ [E/A/d/] +ff+ [E/A/d/] +fff+ [EAd] +ff+ [EAd] +fff+ [EAd] z [E-Ad] E// z3/4 |
z8 |
z8 |
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% Bar 20 (0:38)
z8 |
z8 |
z8 |
z8 |
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+ff+ [Adf] +mp+ [A/d/f/] +mf+ [A/d/f/] +f+ [Adf] +ff+ [A-df] A +mf+ [Adf] +mp+ [Adf] +f+ [A-df] |
A +mf+ [Adf] +f+ [Adf] +ff+ [Adf] +fff+ e- +f+ [A/-d/-e/f/-] [A//d//f//] z// +fff+ d +f+ [Ad-f-] |
+fff+ [A//-d//f//] A3/4 +mf+ [A/d/f/] [A/d/f/] +ff+ [Adf] [A-df] A +f+ [Adf] +mf+ [Adf] +ff+ [A-d-f-] |
[Adf] +f+ [Adf] +fff+ D- +f+ [D3/4A3/4-d3/4-f3/4-] [A//-d//-f//-] +fff+ [E-Adf] +mf+ [E/A/-d/-f/-] [A/d/f/] +fff+ [F-Adf] F |
E- +mf+ [E-A-d-e-] [E-Ade] [E-Ade] E- [E-A-d-e-] [E-Ade] +ff+ [E-Ade] |
% Bar 30 (0:58)
E- +f+ [EA-d-e-] +fff+ [C-Ade] +ff+ [C3/4A3/4-d3/4-e3/4-] [A//-d//-e//-] +fff+ [D-Ade] +mf+ [D/A/-d/-e/-] [A/d/e/] +fff+ [E-Ade] +ff+ [E3/4A3/4-d3/4-e3/4-]
[A//d//e//] |
+fff+ D- +f+ [D-A-d-] [D-Ad] +mf+ [D3/4A3/4-d3/4-] [A//d//] +fff+ [A,2-A2d2] +mf+ [A,-Ad] +ff+ [A,/A/-d/-] [A/d/] |
+fff+ D,- +ff+ [D,-G-Ad-] +fff+ [D,2-G2A2d2] [D,2-G2A2d2] [D,//G//-A//-d//-g//-] [G3/4A3/4d3/4g3/4-] g3/4 z// |
e- +f+ [F/A/d/e/-] [F3/2A3/2d3/2e3/2-] +fff+ [FAde-] e- +f+ [F-A-d-e-] [FAde-] +fff+ [FAde-] |
e- +f+ [F/A/d/e/-] [F//-A//-d//-e//] [F//-A//-d//-] +fff+ [FAdf-] [F3/4-A3/4-d3/4-f3/4] [F//A//d//] e- +f+ [F3/4-A3/4-d3/4-e3/4] [F//-A//-d//] +fff+ [FAd] [FAd] |
A +f+ [F/A/d/] [F3/2A3/2d3/2] +fff+ [FA-d] A +f+ [F-A-d-] [FAd] +fff+ [FA-d] |
A +f+ [F/A/d/] [F/-A/-d/-] +fff+ [D-FAd] [D3/4F3/4-A3/4-d3/4-] [F//A//d//] E- +f+ [E3/4F3/4-A3/4-d3/4-] [F//A//-d//-] +fff+ [FAd] [FAd] |
E +f+ [E/A/d/] [E3/2A3/2d3/2] +fff+ [E-Ad] E +f+ [E-A-d-] [EAd] +fff+ [E-Ad] |
E +f+ [E/A/d/] [E/-A/-d/-] +fff+ [C-EAd] [C3/4E3/4-A3/4-d3/4-] [E//A//d//] D- +f+ [D/E/-A/-d/-] [E/A/-d/-] +fff+ [EAd] [EAd] |
D- +f+ [D/-F/A/d/] [D/-F/-A/-d/-] [D-FAd] +fff+ [D3/4F3/4-A3/4-d3/4-] [F//A//d//] A,- +f+ [A,-F-A-d-] [A,-FAd] +fff+ [A,3/4F3/4-A3/4-d3/4-] [F//A//d//] |
% Bar 40 (1:18)
z8 |]
X: 30
T: Lucifer (1:18) - Theorbo
%%part-name Theorbo
C: Alan Parsons Project
Z: Tanada of Vanyar
M: 4/4
Q: 120
K: C maj
+f+ D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// |
D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// |
D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// |
D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// |
D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// |
D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// |
D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// |
D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// |
D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// |
% Bar 10 (0:18)
D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// |
D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// |
D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// |
D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// |
D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// |
A,// z// A,// z// A// z// A// z// A,// z// A,// z// A// z// A// z// A,// z// A,// z// A// z// A// z// A,// z// A,// z// A// z// A// z// |
A,// z// A,// z// A// z// A// z// A,// z// A,// z// A// z// A// z// A,// z// A,// z// A// z// A// z// A,// z// A,// z// A// z// A// z// |
D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// +fff+ [D//c//] z// [c//d//] z// [c//d//] z// [D//c//] z// [D//c//] z// [A//d//] z//
[A//d//] z// |
[D//F//] z// +f+ D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// |
D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// +fff+ [D//c//] z// [c//d//] z// [c//d//] z// [D//c//] z// [D//c//] z// [A//d//] z//
[A//d//] z// |
% Bar 20 (0:38)
[D//F//] z// +f+ D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// |
D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// +fff+ [D//c//] z// [c//d//] z// [c//d//] z// [D//c//] z// [D//c//] z// [A//d//] z//
[A//d//] z// |
[D//F//] z// +f+ D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// |
A,// z// A,// z// A// z// A// z// A,// z// A,// z// A// z// A// z// A,// z// A,// z// A// z// A// z// A,// z// A,// z// A// z// A// z// |
A,// z// A,// z// A// z// A// z// A,// z// A,// z// A// z// A// z// A,// z// A,// z// A// z// A// z// A,// z// A,// z// A// z// A// z// |
D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// |
D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// |
D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// |
D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// |
D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// |
% Bar 30 (0:58)
D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// |
D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// |
D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// |
D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// |
D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// |
D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// |
D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// |
D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// |
D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// |
D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// D// z// D// z// d// z// d// z// |
% Bar 40 (1:18)
z8 |]
X: 40
T: Lucifer (1:18) - Flute
%%part-name Flute
C: Alan Parsons Project
Z: Tanada of Vanyar
M: 4/4
Q: 120
K: C maj
+fff+ z8 |
z8 |
z8 |
z8 |
z8 |
z8 |
z8 |
z8 |
z8 |
% Bar 10 (0:18)
z8 |
z8 |
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z8 |
z8 |
% Bar 20 (0:38)
z8 |
z8 |
z8 |
z8 |
z8 |
A8- |
A- A3/4 z// f- f3/4 z// e3/2 z/ d- d3/4 z// |
A8- |
A3/2 z/ D- D3/4 z// E3/2 z/ F2 |
E8- |
% Bar 30 (0:58)
E2 C- C3/4 z// D3/2 z/ E- E3/4 z// |
D2- D- D3/4 z// A,2- A,3/2 z/ |
D,2- [D,3/2-A3/2] D,/- [D,3/2-d3/2] D,/- [D,//g//-] g3/4- g3/4 z// |
e8- |
e- e3/4 z// f- f3/4 z// e- e3/4 z// d- d3/4 z// |
A8- |
A3/2 z/ D- D3/4 z// E- E3/4 z// F- F3/4 z// |
E8- |
E- E3/4 z// C- C3/4 z// D3/2 z/ E3/2 z/ |
D2- D- D3/4 z// A,2- A,- A,3/4 z// |
% Bar 40 (1:18)
z8 |]
X: 50
T: Lucifer (1:18) - Clarinet
%%part-name Clarinet
C: Alan Parsons Project
Z: Tanada of Vanyar
M: 4/4
Q: 120
K: C maj
+fff+ z8 |
z8 |
z8 |
z8 |
z8 |
z8 |
z8 |
z8 |
z [D-F-A-] [D2-F2-A2-] [D4F4A4] |
% Bar 10 (0:18)
z [DGB] z2 [D3/4G3/4c3/4] z5/4 [D3/4G3/4B3/4-] B// z |
z [D-F-A-] [D2-F2-A2-] [D4F4A4] |
z [DGB] z2 [D3/4G3/4c3/4] z5/4 [D3/4G3/4B3/4] z5/4 |
z [D-F-A-] [D2-F2-A2-] [D4F4A4] |
z [DGB] z2 [D3/4G3/4c3/4] z5/4 [D3/4G3/4B3/4-] B// z |
z [A,-D-E-] [A,2-D2-E2-] [A,4-D4-E4-] |
[A,2-D2-E2-] [A,-D-E-] [A,//D//E//] z3/4 [A,DE] z [A,-D-E] [A,//D//] z3/4 |
z [D-F-A-] [D2-F2-A2-] [D4F4A4] |
z [DGB] z2 [D3/4G3/4c3/4] z5/4 [D3/4G3/4B3/4-] B// z |
z [D-F-A-] [D2-F2-A2-] [D4F4A4] |
% Bar 20 (0:38)
z [DGB] z2 [D3/4G3/4c3/4] z5/4 [D3/4G3/4B3/4] z5/4 |
z [D-F-A-] [D2-F2-A2-] [D4F4A4] |
z [DGB] z2 [D3/4G3/4c3/4] z5/4 [D3/4G3/4B3/4-] B// z |
z [A,-D-E-] [A,2-D2-E2-] [A,4-D4-E4-] |
[A,2-D2-E2-] [A,-D-E-] [A,//D//E//] z3/4 [A,DE] z [A,-D-E] [A,//D//] z3/4 |
A8- |
A- A3/4 z// f- f3/4 z// e3/2 z/ d- d3/4 z// |
A8- |
A3/2 z/ D- D3/4 z// E3/2 z/ F2 |
E8- |
% Bar 30 (0:58)
E2 C- C3/4 z// D3/2 z/ E- E3/4 z// |
D2- D- D3/4 z// A,2- A,3/2 z/ |
D,2- [D,3/2-A3/2] D,/- [D,3/2-d3/2] D,/- [D,//g//-] g3/4- g3/4 z// |
e8- |
e- e3/4 z// f- f3/4 z// e- e3/4 z// d- d3/4 z// |
A8- |
A3/2 z/ D- D3/4 z// E- E3/4 z// F- F3/4 z// |
E8- |
E- E3/4 z// C- C3/4 z// D3/2 z/ E3/2 z/ |
D2- D- D3/4 z// A,2- A,- A,3/4 z// |
% Bar 40 (1:18)
z8 |]
X: 70
T: Lucifer (1:18) - Bagpipe
%%part-name Bagpipe
C: Alan Parsons Project
Z: Tanada of Vanyar
M: 4/4
Q: 120
K: C maj
+pp+ D// z3/4 D// z// D// z// D// z3/4 +p+ D- D z D// z7/4 |
+mp+ D// z3/4 D// z// D// z// D// z3/4 D- D3/4 z5/4 +mf+ D// z7/4 |
D// z3/4 D// z// D// z// +f+ D// z3/4 D- D z D// z7/4 |
+ff+ D// z3/4 D// z// D// z// D// z3/4 D- D3/4 z5/4 +fff+ D// z7/4 |
+f+ D// z3/4 D// z// D// z// D// z3/4 +ff+ D- D z D// z7/4 |
D// z3/4 +f+ D// z// D// z// D// z3/4 +ff+ D- D3/4 z5/4 D// z7/4 |
+f+ D// z3/4 D// z// D// z// D// z3/4 +ff+ D- D z D// z7/4 |
D// z3/4 +f+ D// z// D// z// D// z3/4 +ff+ D- D3/4 z5/4 D// z7/4 |
+f+ D// z3/4 +fff+ [D/F/-A/-] +f+ [D/F/-A/-] [DF-A-] +ff+ [D-F-A-] [D2F2-A2-] [D2F2A2] |
% Bar 10 (0:18)
D// z3/4 +fff+ [D/G/-B/-] +f+ [D/G/B/] D// z3/4 +ff+ D +fff+ [D3/4G3/4c3/4] z5/4 [D3/4G3/4B3/4-] B// z |
+f+ D// z3/4 +fff+ [D/F/-A/-] +f+ [D/F/-A/-] [DF-A-] +ff+ [D-F-A-] [D2F2-A2-] [D2F2A2] |
D// z3/4 +fff+ [D/G/-B/-] +f+ [D/G/B/] D// z3/4 +ff+ D +fff+ [D3/4G3/4c3/4] z5/4 [D3/4G3/4B3/4] z5/4 |
+f+ D// z3/4 +fff+ [D/F/-A/-] +f+ [D/F/-A/-] [DF-A-] +ff+ [D-F-A-] [D2F2-A2-] [D2F2A2] |
D// z3/4 +fff+ [D/G/-B/-] +f+ [D/G/B/] D// z3/4 +ff+ D +fff+ [D3/4G3/4c3/4] z5/4 [D3/4G3/4B3/4-] B// z |
+f+ D// z3/4 +fff+ [A,/-D/E/-] +f+ [A,/-D/E/-] [A,-DE-] +ff+ [A,-D-E-] [A,2-D2E2-] [A,2-D2E2-] |
[A,-DE-] +f+ [A,/-D/E/-] [A,/-D/E/-] [A,-DE-] +ff+ [A,//D//-E//] D3/4 +fff+ [A,DE] z [A,-D-E] [A,//D//] z3/4 |
+f+ D// z3/4 +fff+ [D/F/-A/-] +f+ [D/F/-A/-] [DF-A-] +ff+ [D-F-A-] [D2F2-A2-] [D2F2A2] |
D// z3/4 +fff+ [D/G/-B/-] +f+ [D/G/B/] D// z3/4 +ff+ D +fff+ [D3/4G3/4c3/4] z5/4 [D3/4G3/4B3/4-] B// z |
+f+ D// z3/4 +fff+ [D/F/-A/-] +f+ [D/F/-A/-] [DF-A-] +ff+ [D-F-A-] [D2F2-A2-] [D2F2A2] |
% Bar 20 (0:38)
D// z3/4 +fff+ [D/G/-B/-] +f+ [D/G/B/] D// z3/4 +ff+ D +fff+ [D3/4G3/4c3/4] z5/4 [D3/4G3/4B3/4] z5/4 |
+f+ D// z3/4 +fff+ [D/F/-A/-] +f+ [D/F/-A/-] [DF-A-] +ff+ [D-F-A-] [D2F2-A2-] [D2F2A2] |
D// z3/4 +fff+ [D/G/-B/-] +f+ [D/G/B/] D// z3/4 +ff+ D +fff+ [D3/4G3/4c3/4] z5/4 [D3/4G3/4B3/4-] B// z |
+f+ D// z3/4 +fff+ [A,/-D/E/-] +f+ [A,/-D/E/-] [A,-DE-] +ff+ [A,-D-E-] [A,2-D2E2-] [A,2-D2E2-] |
[A,-DE-] +f+ [A,/-D/E/-] [A,/-D/E/-] [A,-DE-] +ff+ [A,//D//-E//] D3/4 +fff+ [A,DE] z [A,-D-E] [A,//D//] z3/4 |
+f+ D// z3/4 D// z// D// z// D// z3/4 +ff+ D- D z D// z7/4 |
D// z3/4 +f+ D// z// D// z// D// z3/4 +ff+ D- D3/4 z5/4 D// z7/4 |
+f+ D// z3/4 D// z// D// z// D// z3/4 +ff+ D- D z D// z7/4 |
D// z3/4 +f+ D// z// D// z// D// z3/4 +ff+ D- D3/4 z5/4 D// z7/4 |
+f+ D// z3/4 D// z// D// z// D// z3/4 +ff+ D- D z D// z7/4 |
% Bar 30 (0:58)
D// z3/4 +f+ D// z// D// z// D// z3/4 +ff+ D- D3/4 z5/4 D// z7/4 |
+f+ D// z3/4 D// z// D// z// D// z3/4 +ff+ D- D z D// z7/4 |
D// z3/4 +f+ D// z// D// z// D// z3/4 +ff+ D- D3/4 z5/4 D// z7/4 |
+f+ D// z3/4 D// z// D// z// D// z3/4 +ff+ D- D z D// z7/4 |
D// z3/4 +f+ D// z// D// z// D// z3/4 +ff+ D- D3/4 z5/4 D// z7/4 |
+f+ D// z3/4 D// z// D// z// D// z3/4 +ff+ D- D z D// z7/4 |
D// z3/4 +f+ D// z// D// z// D// z3/4 +ff+ D- D3/4 z5/4 D// z7/4 |
+f+ D// z3/4 D// z// D// z// D// z3/4 +ff+ D- D z D// z7/4 |
D// z3/4 +f+ D// z// D// z// D// z3/4 +ff+ D- D3/4 z5/4 D// z7/4 |
+f+ D// z3/4 D// z// D// z// D// z3/4 +ff+ D- D z D// z7/4 |
% Bar 40 (1:18)
z8 |]
X: 80
T: Lucifer (1:18) - Drums
%%part-name Drums
C: Alan Parsons Project
Z: Tanada of Vanyar
M: 4/4
Q: 120
K: C maj
+p+ ^A z A z A z A z |
^A z A z A z A z |
^A z A z A z A z |
+mp+ ^A z A z +mf+ A z A z |
^A z A z A z A z |
+mp+ ^A z +mf+ A z A z A z |
^A z A z A z A z |
+mp+ ^A z +mf+ A z A z A z |
^A z A z A z A z |
% Bar 10 (0:18)
+mp+ ^A z +mf+ A z A z A z |
^A z A z A z A z |
+mp+ ^A z +mf+ A z A z A z |
^A z A z A z A z |
+mp+ ^A z +mf+ A z A z A z |
^A z A z A z A z |
+mp+ ^A z +mf+ A z A z A z |
^A ^A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A/- +f+ [C//A//-] A// [A,//C//] z// [A,//C//] z// [C//A//-] A//- [C//A//-] A// [=A,//^A,//] z//
[=A,//^A,//] z// |
[F,//^A//-] A3/4 +mf+ ^A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +pp+ A,// z// |
+mf+ ^A ^A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A/- +f+ [C//A//-] A// [A,//C//] z// [A,//C//] z// [C//A//-] A//- [C//A//-] A// [=A,//^A,//] z//
[=A,//^A,//] z// |
% Bar 20 (0:38)
[F,//^A//-] A3/4 +mf+ ^A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +pp+ A,// z// |
+mf+ ^A ^A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A/- +f+ [C//A//-] A// [A,//C//] z// [A,//C//] z// [C//A//-] A//- [C//A//-] A// [=A,//^A,//] z//
[=A,//^A,//] z// |
[F,//^A//-] A3/4 +mf+ ^A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +pp+ A,// z// |
+mf+ ^A ^A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +pp+ A,// z// |
+mp+ ^A +mf+ ^A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +pp+ A,// z// |
+mf+ ^A ^A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +pp+ A,// z// |
+mp+ ^A +mf+ ^A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +pp+ A,// z// |
+mf+ ^A ^A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +pp+ A,// z// |
+mp+ ^A +mf+ ^A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +pp+ A,// z// |
+mf+ ^A ^A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +pp+ A,// z// |
% Bar 30 (0:58)
+mp+ ^A +mf+ ^A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +pp+ A,// z// |
+mf+ ^A ^A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +pp+ A,// z// |
+mp+ ^A +mf+ ^A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +pp+ A,// z// |
+mf+ ^A ^A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +pp+ A,// z// |
+mp+ ^A +mf+ ^A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +pp+ A,// z// |
+mf+ ^A ^A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +pp+ A,// z// |
+mp+ ^A +mf+ ^A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +pp+ A,// z// |
+mf+ ^A ^A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +pp+ A,// z// |
+mp+ ^A +mf+ ^A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +pp+ A,// z// |
+mf+ ^A ^A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +p+ A,// z// +mf+ A A,// z// +pp+ A,// z// |
% Bar 40 (1:18)
z8 |]
X: 90
T: Lucifer (1:18) - Cowbell
%%part-name Cowbell
C: Alan Parsons Project
Z: Tanada of Vanyar
M: 4/4
Q: 120
K: C maj
+pppp+ G,// z// G,// z// G,// z// G,// z// G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 G,// z// G,// z// G,// z// G,// z// G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
G,// z// G,// z// G,// z// G,// z// G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 G,// z// G,// z// G,// z// G,// z// G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
G,// z// G,// z// G,// z// G,// z// G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 G,// z// G,// z// G,// z// G,// z// G,// z3/4 +ppp+ G,// z3/4 |
G,// z// G,// z// G,// z// G,// z// G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 G,// z// G,// z// G,// z// G,// z// +pp+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
+p+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
+mp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 +pp+ G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z// G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
+mp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 +pp+ G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z// G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
% Bar 10 (0:18)
+mp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 +pp+ G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z// G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
+mp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 +pp+ G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z// G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
+mp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 +pp+ G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z// G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
+mp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 +pp+ G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z// G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
+mp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 +pp+ G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z// G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
% Bar 20 (0:38)
+mp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 +pp+ G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z// G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
+mp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 +pp+ G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z// G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
+mp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 +pp+ G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z// G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
+mp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 +pp+ G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z// G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
+mp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 +pp+ G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z// G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
% Bar 30 (0:58)
+mp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 +pp+ G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z// G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
+mp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 +pp+ G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z// G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
+mp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 +pp+ G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z// G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
+mp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 +pp+ G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z// G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
+mp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 +pp+ G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z// G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 +mp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +pp+ G,// z// +ppp+ G,// z// +p+ G,// z3/4 G,// z3/4 |
% Bar 40 (1:18)
z8 |]