@turbine: my.lotro shows everything - to everyone - no matter what

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May 03 2011, 08:16 PM
Sssnapdragon

Re: @turbine: my.lotro shows everything - to everyone - no matter what

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sapience

"You" are represented by your Community Nickname (displayed as "Player" on my.lotro.com); this is the name displayed in your forum posts. This information can be hidden from being displayed on the character page. It will display as "Player:Anonymous." So you can disassociate yourself from the characters on your account.

It has always worked like this. For example, if someone on character 'Nutmeg' sends me a tell, I can go to their community page, and see their community nickname 'Spicerack.' But maybe they have all their other characters listed as anonymous, so when I look at Nutmeg's page, I can't find out any more information.

But...let's say I get a tell from 'Cinnamon' and I go to their community page. I can see that 'Spicerack' is their community nickname. Therefore, I have learned that Nutmeg and Cinnamon are the same person. You wouldn't be able to tell that just by looking at their pages because they've made their links anonymous...but if you know how to look for it, you can still connect people.

It's always worked that way :) People who use the anonymous tags didn't read the fine print :)
May 03 2011, 08:20 PM
DarkCntry

Re: @turbine: my.lotro shows everything - to everyone - no matter what

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chewie1973

An extra step which means that the uncheck-box are absolutely obsolete. So Turbine should remove these boxes as they don't fulfill any function.
It's pure nonsense to argue that this is WAI!

I don't think you understand the correct usage of "WAI" or even "nonsense"...

If something is working as it is anticipated as originally designed, then it is working as intended. It's not nonsense that something is working as intended but not working how you felt it should be. Matter of fact, it's the perception that many have that is nonsense when they've been told time and time again that things are working as intended.

As for the function, they serve it...they de-link an open association.
May 03 2011, 08:55 PM
Chewie1973

Re: @turbine: my.lotro shows everything - to everyone - no matter what

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkCntry

I don't think you understand the correct usage of "WAI" or even "nonsense"...

If something is working as it is anticipated as originally designed, then it is working as intended. It's not nonsense that something is working as intended but not working how you felt it should be. Matter of fact, it's the perception that many have that is nonsense when they've been told time and time again that things are working as intended.

As for the function, they serve it...they de-link an open association.

Oh, come on...
There are these uncheck-boxes so that the player assumes that no one will see his activity and skirmish logs.
But with a little addition to the URL you may see all these logs so that these uncheck-boxes are needless.
And you want to tell us that this is working as intended?
Really??
Do you really think that this is a logical design??
May 03 2011, 08:59 PM
DarkCntry

Re: @turbine: my.lotro shows everything - to everyone - no matter what

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chewie1973

Oh, come on...
There are these uncheck-boxes so that the player assumes that no one will see his activity and skirmish logs.
But with a little addition to the URL you may see all these logs so that these uncheck-boxes are needless.
And you want to tell us that this is working as intended?
Really??
Do you really think that this is a logical design??

Do I have to point you again to the post where Sapience says that it is indeed working as intended, or do you really just like trying to create a cyclical argument?
May 03 2011, 09:52 PM
Chewie1973

Re: @turbine: my.lotro shows everything - to everyone - no matter what

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkCntry

Do I have to point you again to the post where Sapience says that it is indeed working as intended, or do you really just like trying to create a cyclical argument?

So it is impossible that Sapience has told us nonsense?
Because Turbine doesn't want to invest time and manpower in fix this?
Sapience has written something and so this has to be the only truth, regardless of his employer behind him which will order him what he has to say/write?

And IF this is really working as intended then it is the most unlogical and needless function in the whole history of all social networks!
May 03 2011, 10:38 PM
DarkCntry

Re: @turbine: my.lotro shows everything - to everyone - no matter what

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chewie1973

So it is impossible that Sapience has told us nonsense?
Because Turbine doesn't want to invest time and manpower in fix this?
Sapience has written something and so this has to be the only truth, regardless of his employer behind him which will order him what he has to say/write?

And IF this is really working as intended then it is the most unlogical and needless function in the whole history of all social networks!

Just because that is what you believe doesn't make it so...sorry.
May 04 2011, 01:03 AM
Eltar

Re: @turbine: my.lotro shows everything - to everyone - no matter what

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkCntry

Just because that is what you believe doesn't make it so...sorry.

This is how Codemasters forum user act, when they know, they argue in favour of Codemasters.
That's the normal behaviour in a Codemaster's forum.
No matter how offensive your post is, if you are with Codemasters you can do everything.

You see, now it's no more about you can see "private data". Now it's the checkbox is wrong. At least there has to be another text.
Even the text is correct, as Sapience has already stated.
It's all about "I want to and you have to".
Reminds me of a young child who didn't get its popsicle before lunch.

But again:
1. There are no private data on the character's log
2. Every user agreed to the TOC that Turbine can do this with the character's data
3. The stats are hidden on the character's site
4. No link between character and player
5. If you want to, also no link between character and forum user
May 04 2011, 02:40 AM
Caranthon

Re: @turbine: my.lotro shows everything - to everyone - no matter what

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dread1

If you are setup correctly, there are no links between your ID in forum, your real name and your character list. When I look up the OP's forum ID I get nothing else, just his forum name. If you have a signiture in your post with a character name I can associate a character with your forum name. But again if you set it correctly I can only see your character sheet, no other data comes up on that page....no links except to a kinship page if you are in one. If I look myself up & I am logged in I can see all kinds of stuff, cuz it's me. Logged out I cannot.
I'm not sure I understand the huge concern if someone can see a character has done this skirmish or that quest....? I have no idea who the person is if they are anon.
--Confoosed :/

 the link between forum id an player id isn’t important for me, in any ways.
impotent for me are the indirect links between the characters.

As i mention on an easy example:
I have 2 high rank creep on my player account, an no one know that they belongs to me, and this a relay very good point. Now thanks my lotro its possible to find out, that those creeps belongs to my freeps – a very very worse scenario. I`m keeping this secret for 4 years now, it was and is a relay hard work, and now I gona lose it, because of mylotro. Thanks. Same with other freeps, where nobody should know, that they belongs to me.

off cause I cant see now through your forum profile your game chars. And this is a good point, that this isn’t possible. But this never was an interest for me. My problem is, that the knowledge of name and server is enough to get all char relevant data.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eltar

But again:
1. There are no private data on the character's log
2. Every user agreed to the TOC that Turbine can do this with the character's data
3. The stats are hidden on the character's site
4. No link between character and player
5. If you want to, also no link between character and forum user

1) for me finishing a deed at a time xyz is a private date.
2) yes, turbine can do what they want with thoes data, but no third party.
3) which one? i can geht all of the logs.
4) this is good, that its like that, but never was a big point here
5) also true.

but 6) you can, if you know at least one char, find all other freeps and creeps belonging to this char.

 mostly i`ll use my lotro not via forum... i wont look up the chars of the people I am talking to.
I`ll use my lotro to look up chars where I know the person from ingame playing. And so, can get more details about him, as ever possible for me now. I could know now private datas of this player, e.g hidden chars (again: they could be anonymous chars, and never linked to the forum account, but never the less, its possible to find them).
For me the knowledge of which char belongs together is a private date.
The visibility of the logs to the chars: see it as in suggestion. - and for this one im very interested, that it will be implemented. -  Why have my generated data be part of social network If I do not want that? (dont come again with: you have excepted the TOC – as I said: I wont to have a change here.)

to the WAI: If a big part of the community wants a change of a feature, they mostly get it.
May 04 2011, 02:49 AM
Eltar

Re: @turbine: my.lotro shows everything - to everyone - no matter what

Now it's getting really rough.
There are posts in the Codemasters forum, who can post the best masked offense against Sapience.

I think, this issue is at its end.
May 04 2011, 02:56 AM
Caranthon

Re: @turbine: my.lotro shows everything - to everyone - no matter what

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkCntry

I've seen this reasoning a couple of times now;

"If my boss/SO/whoever sees this information I could get in trouble!!!" Or some variation of the sort.

To this, this isn't a problem for Turbine to fix, it's a problem for you, the person afraid of this information getting out, to fix...in a way that doesn't anger your boss (like playing a game instead of working), your Significant Other, or anyone else.

I'm sorry, this excuse is nothing but a joke, right?

no mostly problems between players and players on the same server. and there you can hide your charname...

as said before... one charename and server is enough to find ot the other chars (freeps and creeps) and that could result in truble - and decreases the game experience
May 04 2011, 05:17 AM
Kaffeekanne

Re: @turbine: my.lotro shows everything - to everyone - no matter what

I wonder what interest Turbine has to run a social network and make it obligate for every player to join it without even giving the opportunity to chose which part of my activity ingame I would like to share or not.

I thought the principle of customer-friendly support is born in the USA as this country is always THE example for costumer-orientated business.

But as intens I try to look, I just can´t see that here.

So at least is that what I have to expect in the future? Every bug is a feature and when it is told that it is WAI, than take it or leave it?

But let´s pretend it´s WAI, what´s the big deal about changing to make a lot of users more comfortable with your social network? Is there any reason why Turbine has an interest to make all these data accessable to everyone? And if the answer is yes, please be encouraged to tell me, which reason that is.
May 04 2011, 07:15 AM
a1991lex

Re: @turbine: my.lotro shows everything - to everyone - no matter what

I realized that there are probably two problems that makes our problem not understandable. It could base on my/our bad english or on different opinions/difinations about words like "hide" or "bug". So, the secound point would be more possible I think. ;)

So what we think about the words "bug" or "hide":

Usually a bug is something that a person find in a system which is not working as he believe. If he realize something not correcly, in his opinion, it could be a bug, yes, but usually it´s his opinion. That´s often a problem to fix bugs. Some guys are saying there´s a bug during quest x and another guys are saying this is correct and logical. (Believe me, I know what I am talking about. ;) )
So, the word "hide" is usually more complicate to find the "right" path for everybody. Some guys believe that "hide" is that he is not able to see content which is hide on an overview, like the mylotro panel. Other guys believe that to "hide" means that something have to be completly inversible. So who is right? The guy who are saying to hide is what we have at the moment or the guy who saying that there is something missing in this system?
Well, I would say nobody. The reason for this is, that this is social network. To say that something is running wrong or to say something is going right, is possible when you are belongs to a network which only based (for example) in North Amerika. But in this matter it cannot be right. Everybody has different opinions about right and wrong. The path which could "right" is somethin which is not enough for an international network. The path have to make everybody "happy". That would mean that the devs have to look into that discussion very closly! If not, it can happen that a lot of people are going to leave, because they are not going to show anyone everthing.

For example the system which allow you to hide your character ingame. This works as expectet. No one is able to open the character information of someone who don´t want it. That´s what almost all people in europe prefer (including myself).

So this discussion is not about privacy or something which could include it. It is more a discussion about right/wrong and different opinions about a system. The devs have to understand that the europan market will never be the same as the us market. Never! So, as I said before, they have to find a way to make everybody "happy" and not to say "well, ya, the system is working as expectet". As you see we don´t believe you!

I would be happy if a dev could write something about my reply.

Thanks,
Alex
May 04 2011, 07:57 AM
Kaffeekanne

Re: @turbine: my.lotro shows everything - to everyone - no matter what

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1991lex

Usually a bug is something that a person find in a system which is not working as he believe. If he realize something not correcly, in his opinion, it could be a bug, yes, but usually it´s his opinion. That´s often a problem to fix bugs. Some guys are saying there´s a bug during quest x and another guys are saying this is correct and logical. (Believe me, I know what I am talking about. ;) )

Whenever several people think of something, that works as intended in my opinion, as a bug, maybe I should think about that and not insist, that everything´s just fine.

People just want some privacy and why can´t that be given to them?
If it is the fear, that a large amount of player would make their chars anonymous and that social network would be less interesting because of that, maybe that network isn´t that great cause others work just fine although more privacy is given.

And yes, I understood, that all chars belong to Turbine and they could do whatever they want, but to be able to do, whatever you want doesn´t mean you must.

To be told, we had that conversation before and it hasn´t changed anything is just saying that customers opinions are ignored.

So we have two groups.
One group is fine with MyLotro as it is and the other would like to have more options what is shared about their charakters. So why can´t you make both groups happy by giving them that?
May 04 2011, 08:39 AM
Eltar

Re: @turbine: my.lotro shows everything - to everyone - no matter what

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaffeekanne

So we have two groups.
One group is fine with MyLotro as it is and the other would like to have more options what is shared about their charakters. So why can´t you make both groups happy by giving them that?

And what about the group of players who want that all dwarf characters should wear a pink dress?
Why this group will not be made happy?
Or what about the players who don't like to see other players within their playing area?

Although this may sound very weird, there are a many "wishes" out there.
The last decision will always be made by Turbine.
And that's good so. It would be a mess. There is no democracy. There is a top banana who sets up the rules.
You, the player, will have to make concessions, so as the chief, i.e. Turbine, does.

And it should be clear to all players, that not every wish will be granted.
May 04 2011, 09:02 AM
Caranthon

Re: @turbine: my.lotro shows everything - to everyone - no matter what

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eltar

And what about the group of players who want that all dwarf characters should wear a pink dress?
Why this group will not be made happy?
Or what about the players who don't like to see other players within their playing area?

Although this may sound very weird, there are a many "wishes" out there.
The last decision will always be made by Turbine.
And that's good so. It would be a mess. There is no democracy. There is a top banana who sets up the rules.
You, the player, will have to make concessions, so as the chief, i.e. Turbine, does.

And it should be clear to all players, that not every wish will be granted.

so you are having a problem with it, that there are some players who wants to hidde data belonging to the chars there are playing? i mean, if your are against, name me some arguments why you have a problem with thoes changes. if you have nothing against them, i cant understand you post above.

and even you have to see, that in mylotro are things implementet, that do not fit togetter.
May 04 2011, 09:03 AM
Kaffeekanne

Re: @turbine: my.lotro shows everything - to everyone - no matter what

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eltar

And what about the group of players who want that all dwarf characters should wear a pink dress?
Why this group will not be made happy?
Or what about the players who don't like to see other players within their playing area?

.

Those people discussing here, have wishes about their own chars and prefernces and that´s far away from wanting everyone to please their taste.

I don´t want everyone or even anyone to have the same settings I chose. So maybe you are able to see, that your "argument" has nothing to do with the discussion here.
May 04 2011, 09:34 AM
a1991lex

Re: @turbine: my.lotro shows everything - to everyone - no matter what

Turbine created an option to hide several details about your characters, but I cannot understand why they can´t simply create an error message when you are trying to open the "hidden" pages via url? It´s not that difficult. Why someone should create a system which is not working as it should? As I understand the word "hidden" I would say that, if I click on the "hidden" box, that I expect that the pages are really hidden, or not??
May 04 2011, 09:40 AM
Chewie1973

Re: @turbine: my.lotro shows everything - to everyone - no matter what

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1991lex

Turbine created an option to hide several details about your characters, but I cannot understand why they can´t simply create an error message when you are trying to open the "hidden" pages via url? It´s not that difficult. Why someone should create a system which is not working as it should? As I understand the word "hidden" I would say that, if I click on the "hidden" box, that I expect that the pages are really hidden, or not??

No, not in the world of someone who says that a missing feature is working as intended.
Like Microsoft's explanation: It's not a bug, it's a feature!

Other people would describe this as "für dumm verkaufen" (don't know the english translation).
May 04 2011, 09:43 AM
Caranthon

Re: @turbine: my.lotro shows everything - to everyone - no matter what

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1991lex

Turbine created an option to hide several details about your characters, but I cannot understand why they can´t simply create an error message when you are trying to open the "hidden" pages via url? It´s not that difficult. Why someone should create a system which is not working as it should? As I understand the word "hidden" I would say that, if I click on the "hidden" box, that I expect that the pages are really hidden, or not??

its the other way around, if you chek the box it gets public.

there`s somthing hidden - if set that it should be:

the widgets for the logs on your playerprofile(for other players) are disabeld.
and the link between char and the forums account, and forum account and char.

but also the widgets at the char-pages are disabeld for thoes logs <- i do not know why - thoes inforamtions are public a seen a few posts ago
and the direckt links to the logs are hidden <-- i do also not know why - thoes inforamtions are public a seen a few posts ago
May 04 2011, 09:43 AM
GrandCru

Re: @turbine: my.lotro shows everything - to everyone - no matter what

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sapience

This, in a nutshell.

This conversation, by the way,isn't new. It is an exact copy of the conversation and concerns expressed by a small number of players when the MyLOTRO service was launched. So I'm not surprised a similar number of EU players are expressing the same concerns as all of this is new to them now.

As I said then, and have said a number of times, this is exactly how the service is intended to work. MyLOTRO is a social network and functions as such.

Even Facebook protects, now (and due to complains coming from EU), better privacy than MyLOTRO does. You can expect therefore much more expressing their concerns, once they are aware of where they are stepping in June that is.
May 04 2011, 10:24 AM
Valandir_MUC

Re: @turbine: my.lotro shows everything - to everyone - no matter what

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eltar

And what about the group of players who want that all dwarf characters should wear a pink dress?

You don't get the point.
We don't wish that YOU have to hide everything from everyone. We don't want YOU to wear a pink dress. But some of us want to wear a pink dress. And there IS a pink dress (for logged-in users, using the links with the digits).

You are argueing as if our wish for a little more privacy is hurting you in any way. Does it?

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eltar

Even the text is correct, as Sapience has already stated.

I disagree here.

NOT Checking the box for "Show Skirmish Widgets" will NOT allow other users to see a character's skirmish history, as well as display that character's skirmishes on your player skirmish log. Skirmishes will always be visible to you regardless of this setting.

I added the two red words. Usually the meaning of a sentence does not change by adding the word "NOT" like I did here.
But in this text, it kinda does, it seems. :confused:
May 04 2011, 01:01 PM
Eltar

Re: @turbine: my.lotro shows everything - to everyone - no matter what

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaffeekanne

Those people discussing here, have wishes about their own chars and prefernces and that´s far away from wanting everyone to please their taste.

The main problem seems to be, that you don't really know to whom the toons belong to.
If the toons would belong to the players, I could understand, that you treat them as a kind of your identity.
But in fact, all of them belong to Turbine.
And that is what everybody accepted in the TOC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chewie1973

Other people would describe this as "für dumm verkaufen" (don't know the english translation).

You want to say that Sapience is taking the whole community for a fool?
Okay, that's your opinion.

But I think a further discussion is futile, as long as some don't stick to the facts.
May 04 2011, 02:14 PM
a1991lex

Re: @turbine: my.lotro shows everything - to everyone - no matter what

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eltar

1. The main problem seems to be, that you don't really know to whom the toons belong to.
If the toons would belong to the players, I could understand, that you treat them as a kind of your identity.
But in fact, all of them belong to Turbine.
And that is what everybody accepted in the TOC.

2. You want to say that Sapience is taking the whole community for a fool?
Okay, that's your opinion.

But I think a further discussion is futile, as long as some don't stick to the facts.

1. So, if you buy a house and use money from the bank it belongs to the bank usually, right? And why are there so many contreys which don´t want google streetview? As you say, google have to ask the banks not the people who live inside them, or? That´s what you said.

2. I don´t think so, that he believes that Sap make fun of sb at the community/the whole community. I believe he mean that he don´t want to be someone who "get" this.
I also don´t want only the statement that this "bug" is working as expectet, I prefer something more professional.
May 04 2011, 04:00 PM
Chewie1973

Re: @turbine: my.lotro shows everything - to everyone - no matter what

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1991lex

2. I don´t think so, that he believes that Sap make fun of sb at the community/the whole community. I believe he mean that he don´t want to be someone who "get" this.
I also don´t want only the statement that this "bug" is working as expectet, I prefer something more professional.

Falls du damit meinst, daß ich Sapience' Erklärung nicht einfach so glaube, nur weil er es sagt, dann liegst du damit richtig. :)
Andernfalls hab ich's falsch übersetzt/verstanden, dann bitte ich um eine deutsche Erklärung.
May 04 2011, 04:07 PM
a1991lex

Re: @turbine: my.lotro shows everything - to everyone - no matter what

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chewie1973

Falls du damit meinst, daß ich Sapience' Erklärung nicht einfach so glaube, nur weil er es sagt, dann liegst du damit richtig. :)
Andernfalls hab ich's falsch übersetzt/verstanden, dann bitte ich um eine deutsche Erklärung.

Genau so wollte ich das ausdrücken. ;) Jetzt sollten wir aber wieder englisch schreiben, damit uns auch jeder versteht. :P

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