What is the Player Council up to?

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Originally Posted by bucko39

7. You conveniently forgot the part where I said, "it all depends on what (idea) is brought forth"
8. Who the hell knows? But someone at Turbine needs to pull their head out. They introduce cosmetic weapons and decide NOT to put a #### load of cool weapon cosmetics in the store?
9. Like I said, you have a limited view of Housing. If you interlock Housing and Kinship development it becomes much more than a pretty picture on a wall. It becomes more about a group (kin) working together to achieve an objective. The end result could be anything from critical crafting buffs, kinship wide dps buffs (it would have to be minimal, but it would still be something), to kinship wide travel cost reductions throughout Middle Earth (for building up your stable)...and yeah, it would also be about having a kick ### kin house to show off. And the last time I checked, the housing item that dropped in BG T2CM was not awarded because anyone did it solo. Lastly, the excuse..."if they do X, we won't get Y"...is basically accepting mediocrity as Turbine's business motto.

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7. I haven't forgotten anything. The whole crux of the argument is parsing the idea and how it's done. Al I'm saying is that without Turbine actually playing the game they're developing, then they can't see the good ideas from the bad. There's no other argument than to play the game.

8. Well then if you realize that the adding to the suggestion that "it'll make amazeballz of bank!" is stupid then you don' add it to the suggestion.

9. No, I have an old school view of housing. When housing was launched by the original dev team, the players hustled to the forums to whine for stables, and crafting facilities, and this and that and the other. The devs said no, that this was Middle Earth, that the game's single biggest draw was that it was Middle Earth, and that we were supposed to be out in the world. This was back before the packed every quest hub with every crafting facility and every quick travel to everywhere. But to me the point stands, the GAME is Middle Earth, that's its focus. Not housing, full stop. Kinships... I'm a kin leader, for what was for a long time a very successful kinship that had its share of renown and infamy. It's gone now because of the loot system, the lag, and the lack of engaging repeatable group content. You DON'T pour money into kinships now and keep all that broken, it won't do a thing and it's beyond stupid. And what you claim as an excuse is not an excuse, it's a reality, a harsh one unfortunately. It's quite possibly that WB is perfectly happy with LOTRO right where it is, even if Turbine isn't. I strongly suspect that to be the case. WB bought Turbine to consolidate all the licensed LOTR properties under one roof after they took the films from New Line. They might have just achieved that goal and called it good. Sucks for us.

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Originally Posted by Snowlock

7. Al I'm saying is that without Turbine actually playing the game they're developing, then they can't see the good ideas from the bad. There's no other argument than to play the game.

8. Well then if you realize that the adding to the suggestion that "it'll make amazeballz of bank!" is stupid then you don' add it to the suggestion.

9. No, I have an old school view of housing. When housing was launched by the original dev team, the players hustled to the forums to whine for stables, and crafting facilities, and this and that and the other. The devs said no, that this was Middle Earth, that the game's single biggest draw was that it was Middle Earth, and that we were supposed to be out in the world. This was back before the packed every quest hub with every crafting facility and every quick travel to everywhere. But to me the point stands, the GAME is Middle Earth, that's its focus. Not housing, full stop. Kinships... I'm a kin leader, for what was for a long time a very successful kinship that had its share of renown and infamy. It's gone now because of the loot system, the lag, and the lack of engaging repeatable group content. You DON'T pour money into kinships now and keep all that broken, it won't do a thing and it's beyond stupid. And what you claim as an excuse is not an excuse, it's a reality, a harsh one unfortunately. It's quite possibly that WB is perfectly happy with LOTRO right where it is, even if Turbine isn't. I strongly suspect that to be the case. WB bought Turbine to consolidate all the licensed LOTR properties under one roof after they took the films from New Line. They might have just achieved that goal and called it good. Sucks for us.

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7. Agreed, which I already said. You made a claim that I implied something, which I did not.
8. If anything, the Housing/Kinship revamp was a good idea first, and a money maker for Turbine second. It was presented as such, initially, in the suggestion forums.
9. Well then, in this case, old school = limited. You don't want Turbine to pour money into kinships because x, y and z are broken. Well, anyone could make that argument and apply it to just about any suggestion put forth to better this game. Christ, cosmetic weapons is the definition of "fluff", but Turbine spent time and resources on that--8 years into the game--I sure hope that a big chunk of Minas Tirith isn't missing as a result of that decision :) The housing/kinship idea should have been implemented years ago. I don't expect Turbine to do jack #### with it now. That doesn't mean it's not a good idea. My whole point, was that Turbine has let that thread fester for far too long without having the balls to address it and finally put it to rest. Personally, I think too much of the game is "broken". I think they should shut down the suggestions part of the forum and just ride it out until we get to Mordor and shut the bloody lights off. Yeah...sucks for us.

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Originally Posted by BangoTwinkletoes

Player housing is also a gold mine for those MMOs that have a) done it justice and b) monetised it without being overtly greedy. ...

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uh hmmm...?

I am not going to espouse one opinion over another on this. I will relate a personal revelation of mine.

There is a thread here, someplace, that players used to beg the dev team to add storage slots to housing chests. This is back when we had 1 chest for standard and 2 for deluxe. Many, player, opinions came forth and several of them, mine included, indicated that we'd pay for more space in housing chests. I'm sure that I am not the only one, that upon seeing the change and the cost said, openly or to themselves, wth? 100 mithril coins? come on Turbine. A week after I whined those words at my monitor I remember that I had posted that I'd pay rl money for housing storage.

My guess is, that if Turbine actually got the response they were promised there would be more housing development, and not just people flipping houses. I did go back and buy housing storage. I had a hard time justifying my whining when I had nothing to back it up. I doubt I was the only one but I also doubt that all the people begging for more storage actually paid money for it.

We are fickle. We are as greedy as Turbine appears to be. We want more and more. The well will go dry. We don't always know what is best for the game. The gaming companies, likewise, don't always know what is best for the game, and if not that, they don't always implement the vision they had that was best for the game. <hello radiance>

As for being greedy. Anyone remember the motto of the original movie "Wall Street"? We are two sides of the same coin. We greedily lap up anything Turbine, or most any other company, throws into our dish. And we want it for free. It goes both ways. Perhaps <here> is where the council should meet... across a bargaining table. Yeah I didn't think anyone would go for that either.

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Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave

Of course, the most drastic changes were with HD. I don't know what led to that, though I suspect it wasn't due to the PvMPers. I think the devs wanted to do that regardless of what PvMPers -- or anyone else -- said.

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Oh, I don't blame PvPers for the HD disaster :). The trait trees are a carbon copy of the warsteed's; they followed the TT fashion from RifT and SWTOR, no doubt about that (LotRO tend to copy from other games). In the end, besides all the people angry with the "new" feature, we won the chance to buy a set of 100MC tabs.

Of course, those skills that don't work properly must be fixed, I agree. However, the neverending rebalancing, buffing, nerfing skills nightmare is a different thing.

I'm not sure if the people who invest money or time equipping their characters are so happy everytime their legacies (to name just one thing) are changed.

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Originally Posted by Laerien

Oh, I don't blame PvPers for the HD disaster :). The trait trees are a carbon copy of the warsteed's; they followed the TT fashion from RifT and SWTOR, no doubt about that (LotRO tend to copy from other games). In the end, besides all the people angry with the "new" feature, we won the chance to buy a set of 100MC tabs.

Of course, those skills that don't work properly must be fixed, I agree. However, the neverending rebalancing, buffing, nerfing skills nightmare is a different thing.

I'm not sure if the people who invest money or time equipping their characters are so happy everytime their legacies (to name just one thing) are changed.

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Every time my legacies are changed I get less and less invested in the game. Especially when they do something idiotic like remove threat down on my minstrel and give me power reduction when I have an endless supply of power. Yeah. Idiotic is about as nice as I could come up with on that one.

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Originally Posted by Beaniemooch

Every time my legacies are changed I get less and less invested in the game. Especially when they do something idiotic like remove threat down on my minstrel and give me power reduction when I have an endless supply of power. Yeah. Idiotic is about as nice as I could come up with on that one.

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Tbh song of soothing wasnt needed for several years before they removed it. As of now it would be totally useless skill.

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Originally Posted by siipperi

Tbh song of soothing wasnt needed for several years before they removed it. As of now it would be totally useless skill.

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Might have been useless to you, it wasn't to me, but then perhaps we ran different kinds of content or played differently. And therein lies the issue - because some people thought skills were useless and "bloat" apparently Turbine thought it was okay to take away a number of them. It wasn't.

Essentially they took all management of threat away from minstrels except for lute strings. We asked to be able to proactively help manage our own threat but it fell on deaf ears, like the rest of what we asked for.

Closing this thread. As far as the PC this year goes, they have been very helpful and given the team some amazing feedback so far. Beyond that, the NDA is place so we will not discuss the details at this time.