Zon's Guardian Guide for Update 22.2+

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Originally Posted by Hanli

Hi,
I was looking through the guide I saw some information that seemed to me to slightly contradict itself, although I could be misunderstanding. On pages 24-25 the Vitality and Might legacies say they are filler legacies. I noticed on page 21-23 all the LIs have vitality and/or Might on them.

Is Vitality better than Guardian Bleed or Sweeping Cut damage boosts when tanking? Do bleeds not help keep aggro? Or is it not enough to make it worth it compared to extra hp?

What about on the DPS builds?

Thanks!!

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There's a mix 'n match of them. Vitality and Might are not on all of the legendaries. These are the legacies that I am currently using, though I am very seriously considering replacing my Abyssal Settings of Finesse in my Damage Dealer builds with Westemnet Settings of Endings since I don't really need the Finesse or Evasion. Currently I am using some Vitality legacies simply because I am trying hard to get my unbuffed Morale higher. Any Might legacies are just because I figure I'll gain more overall DPS from having an increase to Physical Mastery versus it benefiting a single skill. On my AoE DPS 2H I largely use just Sweeping, Whirling, Vexing, Ttk, Hammer Down, War-chant and Brutal Assault. With my ST PvMP 2H if I do use AoE's they are just Whirling and War-chant, otherwise all single-target skills pretty much.

You asked about bleeds keeping aggro... I wouldn't rely nor even think about bleeds keeping or helping with aggro. My mastery when tanking is only 109k (which will losing at least 8400 more mastery soon). Honestly War-chant, Shield-taunt and Shield-smash are all that I use for mob aggro, with the occasional Sweeping Cut or Whirling Retaliation based on my current rotation cycle.

https://i.imgur.com/dddG0Z5.jpg

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Originally Posted by Zonflux

There's a mix 'n match of them. Vitality and Might are not on all of the legendaries. These are the legacies that I am currently using, though I am very seriously considering replacing my Abyssal Settings of Finesse in my Damage Dealer builds with Westemnet Settings of Endings since I don't really need the Finesse or Evasion. Currently I am using some Vitality legacies simply because I am trying hard to get my unbuffed Morale higher. Any Might legacies are just because I figure I'll gain more overall DPS from having an increase to Physical Mastery versus it benefiting a single skill. On my AoE DPS 2H I largely use just Sweeping, Whirling, Vexing, Ttk, Hammer Down, War-chant and Brutal Assault. With my ST PvMP 2H if I do use AoE's they are just Whirling and War-chant, otherwise all single-target skills pretty much.

You asked about bleeds keeping aggro... I wouldn't rely nor even think about bleeds keeping or helping with aggro. My mastery when tanking is only 109k (which will losing at least 8400 more mastery soon). Honestly War-chant, Shield-taunt and Shield-smash are all that I use for mob aggro, with the occasional Sweeping Cut or Whirling Retaliation based on my current rotation cycle.

https://i.imgur.com/dddG0Z5.jpg

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Thanks for the explanation! It helped a lot.

For the armours, you should run DoS t2c so you can get the 3 essence braclets, some bosses attacks cannot be bped, but you should keep the 8660 (parry and block) rings as a swappy in case you need more bpe

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Originally Posted by Fraushgrish2

For the armours, you should run DoS t2c so you can get the 3 essence rings, some bosses attacks cannot be bped, but you should keep the 8660 (parry and block) rings as a swappy in case you need more bpe

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Aheemm, you must be talking about the Bracelets ? Those and the 3 slot Necklace are the only jewels, with essence slots, dropping in Osgiliath instances. You want to stack more Vitality or inc. heal in the essence bracelets?

Thank you for the guide Zon, great work as always :)

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Originally Posted by Endoloose

Aheemm, you must be talking about the Bracelets ? Those and the 3 slot Necklace are the only jewels, with essence slots, dropping in Osgiliath instances. You want to stack more Vitality or inc. heal in the essence bracelets?

Thank you for the guide Zon, great work as always :)

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yup srry fixed that

Hi everyone! :D <3 xoxo

So my gear has finally gotten good enough to take some screenshots of so I have made what I feel is a fairly important update to the guide. In the chapter Armour, Jewelry and Essences under section Tank – Raid Tier 2 I have posted several links to photos of gear to get your Guardian Tier 2 Ready Raid Tank. Note that everything listed here is completely achievable without ever attempting the Abyss of Mordath raid on Tier 2, all you need is Ally/Kindred status with certain factions and lots of Ash and Lake/River Tokens.

https://goo.gl/TWyjry

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Originally Posted by Zonflux

Hi everyone! :D <3 xoxo

So my gear has finally gotten good enough to take some screenshots of so I have made what I feel is a fairly important update to the guide. In the chapter Armour, Jewelry and Essences under section Tank – Raid Tier 2 I have posted several links to photos of gear to get your Guardian Tier 2 Ready Raid Tank. Note that everything listed here is completely achievable without ever attempting the Abyss of Mordath raid on Tier 2, all you need is Ally/Kindred status with certain factions and lots of Ash and Lake/River Tokens.

https://goo.gl/TWyjry

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Hi Zonflux. DO you have a build dps with 1H +shield with shield smash (tree trait, Li) PLZ

THX for your guide

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Originally Posted by Zonflux

Hi everyone! :D <3 xoxo

So my gear has finally gotten good enough to take some screenshots of so I have made what I feel is a fairly important update to the guide. In the chapter Armour, Jewelry and Essences under section Tank – Raid Tier 2 I have posted several links to photos of gear to get your Guardian Tier 2 Ready Raid Tank. Note that everything listed here is completely achievable without ever attempting the Abyss of Mordath raid on Tier 2, all you need is Ally/Kindred status with certain factions and lots of Ash and Lake/River Tokens.

https://goo.gl/TWyjry

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so do i trust 400% or 222750k ??? i cant hit all stats caps -crit/finesse/mities/ even all 345 gears ???!!! so tank - dps need some advice

Per a viewer request I decided to write a few sample pages on Wikia to compare my guide on Google Docs versus Wikia. Before I commit to migrating the guide over to Wikia could you guys please let me know which host site you would prefer?

1. Google Docs <https://goo.gl/TWyjry>
2. Wikia <https://lotro-guardianguide-u22.wiki...Guide_U22_Wiki>

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Originally Posted by Zonflux

Per a viewer request I decided to write a few sample pages on Wikia to compare my guide on Google Docs versus Wikia. Before I commit to migrating the guide over to Wikia could you guys please let me know which host site you would prefer?

1. Google Docs <https://goo.gl/TWyjry>
2. Wikia <https://lotro-guardianguide-u22.wiki...Guide_U22_Wiki>

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my dps stats are atm crit 56k finesse 99k pm 200k crit def 50.5% mities 109k/60k morale 106k and so huge amount of dmge comes thru pve ... well well even insane pvp .

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Originally Posted by Zonflux

Per a viewer request I decided to write a few sample pages on Wikia to compare my guide on Google Docs versus Wikia. Before I commit to migrating the guide over to Wikia could you guys please let me know which host site you would prefer?

1. Google Docs <https://goo.gl/TWyjry>
2. Wikia <https://lotro-guardianguide-u22.wiki...Guide_U22_Wiki>

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Zon, I would like to start by saying that the most important thing is to have a guide and be able to read it. The platform doesn't matter that much (to me, at least). But if you ask me, I think I prefer Google Docs.

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Originally Posted by Zonflux

Per a viewer request I decided to write a few sample pages on Wikia to compare my guide on Google Docs versus Wikia. Before I commit to migrating the guide over to Wikia could you guys please let me know which host site you would prefer?

1. Google Docs <https://goo.gl/TWyjry>
2. Wikia <https://lotro-guardianguide-u22.wiki...Guide_U22_Wiki>

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Well, really like the "clean" Google version. The menu at left side makes navigation easy.

Another comment:
Never used Google docs, but don't like the way the Armour and Jewel page are done The description of each piece are links to images, rather than displaying the images directly on the page.

I feel kinda of bad for this thread, all of the states have been changed radical (as im seeing it in br) you need to completely redo all the states in this guide

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Originally Posted by Fraushgrish2

I feel kinda of bad for this thread, all of the states have been changed radical (as im seeing it in br) you need to completely redo all the states in this guide

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A scholars work is never done.

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Originally Posted by Zonflux

Per a viewer request I decided to write a few sample pages on Wikia to compare my guide on Google Docs versus Wikia. Before I commit to migrating the guide over to Wikia could you guys please let me know which host site you would prefer?

1. Google Docs <https://goo.gl/TWyjry>
2. Wikia <https://lotro-guardianguide-u22.wiki...Guide_U22_Wiki>

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Zon, I would prefer Google.Docs.

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Originally Posted by Fraushgrish2

I feel kinda of bad for this thread, all of the states have been changed radical (as im seeing it in br) you need to completely redo all the states in this guide

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This guide was never meant to stand the test of time. I needed a template to serve for future guides. Once Update 23 is released I will likely be making a virtual copy of the guide as another Google Doc and then carrying forward with the new doc for U23. This is all fully expected and planned with how I want all of my future guides to carry forward so I am not unhappy or sad at the slightest.

As a author I am very happy with many of the changes in U23 as the stats are more predictable. Once the U23 guide is started and completed I think all future guides will be much easier to create, and if that is the case then say U24 and onward could lend way to more optional content being written in the guides.

I've been playing around a little bit on BR and skills such as Tenderize and Guardian's Ward: Tactics have not had their benefit amount changed and if they remain this way then these skills will become even more important carrying forward.

Take GW:Tactics for instance, with Tier 2 Raid Ready tanking gear I now sit at 51.1% Tactical Mitigation, using GW:Tactics gets me up to 56.1% or an increase of 5%. Granted there are still Minstrel mitigation buffs that we'll get but at first glance I can already tell that we'll need more Tactical Mitigation in our meta builds.

Critical Rating has always been a difficult stat to get and considering that my dps build dropped 3% then using Tenderize to gain 2% critical hit chance rating is extremely valuable, though I know that I will need to stack some Critical Rating in my build if I want to dream of getting it close to 20%.

The only stat that everyone will probably be happy and not concerned about at all is Finesse, which in both my dps and tank builds saw a positive increase, well that and Resistance and possibly Critical Defence.

*Edit: So my initial glances were done when I was level 115. I am now 119 and wow, let's just say that all of my stat percentages have dropped a lot, though I am still in my level 115 gear.

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Originally Posted by Zonflux

Critical Rating has always been a difficult stat to get and considering that my dps build dropped 3% then using Tenderize to gain 2% critical hit chance rating is extremely valuable, though I know that I will need to stack some Critical Rating in my build if I want to dream of getting it close to 20%.

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Tenderize is borderline useless since sting is used very frequently in any line.
It might be somewhat usefull if they put the reset on a skill with a longer cd or a skill that isn't used as frequently.

Just finished assembling new tank gear on Bullroarer. Level 120 mitigation caps are;
Tier 1 = 188,000
Tier 2 = 199,536

Guardian's Ward: Tactics provides;
+20,241 Tactical Mitigation
+17,892 Parry Rating
+10,092 Block Rating

Tenderize at 5 stacks provides +12,485 critical hit chance, useful in a dps build though you'd probably only invest 4 ranks.

Guardian's Ward Parry & Block legacies have not scaled and thus are kind of ####ty legacies now.

Still need to play around with the new essences.

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Originally Posted by Justapvpdude

Tenderize is borderline useless since sting is used very frequently in any line.
It might be somewhat usefull if they put the reset on a skill with a longer cd or a skill that isn't used as frequently.

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Debatable really since in every game that I have played even a small increase in critical rating increases dps parses by large gains. And if you are AoE'ing for the large majority of your attacks you'll seldom take advantage of the 3s cd for Sting until you are down to 1-2 targets.

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Originally Posted by Justapvpdude

Tenderize is borderline useless since sting is used very frequently in any line.
It might be somewhat usefull if they put the reset on a skill with a longer cd or a skill that isn't used as frequently.

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No it's not useless for red line.

Sting is a nice rotational skill in general but not a must.

The priority now is maintaining DoTs , you can easily dumb sting alltogether , put protection on tank if you are in a group and your DPS will most likely increase if stacked to full ^^

Guardian was already hard to cap key stats , if not impossible , even with BIS gear and it will get worse in U23.

As for tank , i don't use it but it can prove 'decent' there too as long as you don't have to remove corruptions.
But traiting it full for tank is certainly a big no.

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Originally Posted by Kazabooboo

No it's not useless for red line.

Sting is a nice rotational skill in general but not a must.

The priority now is maintaining DoTs , you can easily dumb sting alltogether , put protection on tank if you are in a group and your DPS will most likely increase if stacked to full ^^

Guardian was already hard to cap key stats , if not impossible , even with BIS gear and it will get worse in U23.

As for tank , i don't use it but it can prove 'decent' there too as long as you don't have to remove corruptions.
But traiting it full for tank is certainly a big no.

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Except in a proper red rotation you can keep all dots up while still pretty much spamming sting and stagger.
There's no reason not to since these skills are superfast.

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Originally Posted by Justapvpdude

Except in a proper red rotation you can keep all dots up while still pretty much spamming sting and stagger.
There's no reason not to since these skills are superfast.

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If it works for you fair enough.
For me that's not the case.
We need to maintain 4 bleeds , every now and then i might have to pop a parry event , use to the king for the damage buff etc.
I guess its a matter of preferance.

If there's more than one target though , its safe to say you don't have enough time to apply the bleeds , while focusing on them is defo better DPS wise.

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Originally Posted by Kazabooboo

If it works for you fair enough.
For me that's not the case.
We need to maintain 4 bleeds , every now and then i might have to pop a parry event , use to the king for the damage buff etc.
I guess its a matter of preferance.

If there's more than one target though , its safe to say you don't have enough time to apply the bleeds , while focusing on them is defo better DPS wise.

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In an aoe situation I agree, you can't keep all bleeds + TTK up if you're using sting a lot.
Single target however I find it very much possible to keep all bleeds up + TTK while still pretty much spamming sting/stagger.

Thanks for keeping up the good work, Zon, and for handling the stress of people being less courteous than they ought to be. I've requested comment access on the Google Doc, and I think I prefer that platform to Wikia.

I've been away from the game for awhile, so I expect things to have changed. A lot of my current gear is L100-105, and I haven't gotten to L115 yet. Perhaps y'all can help bring me up to speed on a few things.

1) a. I noticed that every single one of your trait builds included either Tenderize or Bolster, discouraging the use of Sting. I'm fine with that in AoE fights, but Sting feels more essential to me in single target fights. Do you have an alternative Red build that doesn't include Tenderize, or is the added crit chance so important that refraining from using Sting in your single target rotation is worth it?
b. Additionally, I don't see the sense in traiting both Bolster and Relentless Assault (which encourages using Sting). Why did you make that choice in your Blue Tank build, and are there good alternatives? In the past, I've used two similar blue tank builds: one with Relentless Assault and Insult to Injury for single target fights, and one with Improved Shield-spikes and Bolster for AoE fights.

2) In the past, traiting 1/5 Guardian's Ward: Tactics was generally enough, utilizing its rare front-loaded benefit, relying on gear and virtues for most of your TactMit, and saving 4 trait points for other things. Has the meta now changed such that 5/5 GW:T is necessary?

3) I'm used to traiting Tireless Defender in tank builds in order to conserve power. Is this no longer necessary? Why?

4) In your guide from a few years ago, you included several tiers of gear builds with increasing cost and quality. I, for one, would greatly appreciate it if you added low-cost builds once again, e.g. to be ready for Tier 1 dungeons and raids.

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Originally Posted by Lifthil

Thanks for keeping up the good work, Zon, and for handling the stress of people being less courteous than they ought to be. I've requested comment access on the Google Doc, and I think I prefer that platform to Wikia.

I've been away from the game for awhile, so I expect things to have changed. A lot of my current gear is L100-105, and I haven't gotten to L115 yet. Perhaps y'all can help bring me up to speed on a few things.

1) a. I noticed that every single one of your trait builds included either Tenderize or Bolster, discouraging the use of Sting. I'm fine with that in AoE fights, but Sting feels more essential to me in single target fights. Do you have an alternative Red build that doesn't include Tenderize, or is the added crit chance so important that refraining from using Sting in your single target rotation is worth it?
b. Additionally, I don't see the sense in traiting both Bolster and Relentless Assault (which encourages using Sting). Why did you make that choice in your Blue Tank build, and are there good alternatives? In the past, I've used two similar blue tank builds: one with Relentless Assault and Insult to Injury for single target fights, and one with Improved Shield-spikes and Bolster for AoE fights.

2) In the past, traiting 1/5 Guardian's Ward: Tactics was generally enough, utilizing its rare front-loaded benefit, relying on gear and virtues for most of your TactMit, and saving 4 trait points for other things. Has the meta now changed such that 5/5 GW:T is necessary?

3) I'm used to traiting Tireless Defender in tank builds in order to conserve power. Is this no longer necessary? Why?

4) In your guide from a few years ago, you included several tiers of gear builds with increasing cost and quality. I, for one, would greatly appreciate it if you added low-cost builds once again, e.g. to be ready for Tier 1 dungeons and raids.

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1) Sting contribution to DPS is minimal, it's safe to avoid it for more %crit, in my opinion, unless you really need to remove corruption. Sting no longer cash out Bolster as it does with Tenderize.

3) I trait Tireless defender, have the class essence for power, and I still need power in longer fights. Maybe in groups with capy or LM you don't need it, otherwise I recommend it.

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Originally Posted by Fermongu

1) Sting contribution to DPS is minimal, it's safe to avoid it for more %crit, in my opinion, unless you really need to remove corruption. Sting no longer cash out Bolster as it does with Tenderize.

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I don't understand why so many people say this about sting. DPS = damage per second, while sting may not have the highest tooltip damage it's very fast (and tbh the tooltip damage is pretty good as well).
In a single target DPS rotation using sting a lot between bleeds/TTK will definitely improve your dps more than not using it to keep the relatively small crit buff from tenderize

In tanking sting is also very usefull for opening block/parry events with relentless assault.