I wouldn't count on it, pvpers said they'd pay for a pvp only server and they didn't even get a response from a dev.Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtAnderso
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I wouldn't count on it, pvpers said they'd pay for a pvp only server and they didn't even get a response from a dev.Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtAnderso
Not as a CREEP (edit for typo), but yeah, I think it's inappropriate in the pve environment.Quote:
Originally Posted by elderlygamer
What wold be my justification for reporting it? In what you quoted, the words obscene and mockery are used. As a freep, the name pretty much does make a mockery of the stated game environment. Going a little further, elsewhere in the TOS, there are mentions of vulgarity, and there's a line about not interfering with the enjoyment of other players.
If this were something like BNET, anything goes for names. But it isn't. The lore-appropriateness of the game environment much more central to the game, both dev side (and per the license) and player side. So for me, blatanly lore-breaking names will probably get reported. Again, I do not see this as playing God with someone else's name. Clearly, per the TOS, I do not have such power. I see this as asking Turbine to take a look and see if it's within the rules. Turbine makes that call, not me.
TOS doesn't cover my phone, or my cat sitting on my mouse, etc. If TOS didn't have restrictions on obscenities, celeb names, LOTR character names, etc., then I would accept, by virtue of agreeing to play the game, that objecting to those things is out of bounds. It's what's in the TOS. TOS to me is like the CC&Rs for condo developments. By living there, you agree to them. You don't HAVE to live there, and if you don't like the CC&Rs, you can choose another development. If the CC&Rs say you can't have a gas grill on your balcony, then you can't even if people do in some other development, and even if you personally think it shouldn't be such a big deal and you've had that grill for 10 years and it's your uber favorite thing. And, if the CC&Rs prohibit grills on balconies and you put one on yours, you can expect that either one of your neighbors will report you or the Board will see it on their own and tell you to get rid of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by elderlygamer
Here's where I'm confused - you admit that heyijustfarted isn't appropriate for a freep, so why is it not cool for other people to think that, too?
Yes but that's pvp. It's the long-neglected part of the game that gets shoved into the corner out of sight out of mind. PVE is what Turbine is interested in, and if there are role playing PVEers who insist on people having lore-ish names then Turbine is more likely to listen to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuin
How is "heyijustfarted' obsene or a mockery? It's not "heyijustfartedanditwaswetandi tlandedonyourface". A mockery of the stated game environment?? Huh? Maybe if the name was "heyitookash--onyourcharacter" or "ijustcrappedonturbine". I can clearly see those as being a "mockery of the stated game environment".Quote:
Originally Posted by Saesa
Likewise someone in an earlier post said "dork" was an insult. How is that an insult? It's not "youareadork"... that would be an insult.
This discussion further reminds me of why I'm not an RPer. lol :)
To those of you who have reported names because they didn't fit the lore, how many names have you reported? Just curious... I imagine some folks will be quite busy filing "name does not fit the lore" tickets when the f2p players arrive.
The TOS also doesn't have restrictions on names that sound out-of-place, but otherwise are not offensive or infringe on any IP. For example, an elf named "Bob" is lore breaking, and possibly immersion breaking, but there's nothing against it in the TOS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saesa
Since launch, the total is about 5. ;) So one or two per year doesn't seem to be this massive filling-out-of-forms you're implying.Quote:
Originally Posted by elderlygamer
It's all about context. If you're hanging out with friends in a sports bar, in your yard, on the street, etc. and you're enjoying yourself by being loud and boisterous and using the occasional swearword, cool! Go for it, have a good time. But if you're in a movie theatre or library the context is different so the standards are different. What appropriate one place, isn't appropriate in another, something you have already acknowledged.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StavroMuellerBeta
Agreed, which is why I have no problem with Bob. Bob is a far cry from something like Shasta McNasty however.
I never said that heyijustfarted was inappropriate for a freep. What I said was that I'd never name a freep character that. Why? Because I know there are pve-only folks who get very upset when names don't fit their ideals of what a LOTRO name should be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saesa
I have no problem whatsoever with people in either pve or pvp naming their character heyijustfarted or uberhaxxorz or fatdisgustingslob or iamnotaroleplayer or anthing else that some would find "offensive". Personally I don't even care if people name their toons "MichaelJackson" or "JohnLennon" or "CharlieBrown" even though those names clearly violate the TOS. I'd not waste my time reporting them as they don't bother me... why should they?
Now if someone had a name that I thought was morally offensive, such as something that clearly insulted a gender or race or religion, or something that promoted violence/abuse, then yes I'd report it. But otherwise there are better ways I'd rather spend my gaming time than filling out tickets because someone else has a different idea of what a good name is.
If some of you played in the Moors you'd probably have major fits over the names you saw. lol
From Merriam Webster Online
Main Entry: ob·scene
Pronunciation: äb-'sEn, &b-
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle French, from Latin obscenus, obscaenus
1 : disgusting to the senses : REPULSIVE
2 a : abhorrent to morality or virtue; specifically : designed to incite to lust or depravity b : containing or being language regarded as taboo in polite usage <obscene lyrics> c : repulsive by reason of crass disregard of moral or ethical principles <an obscene misuse of power> d : so excessive as to be offensive <obscene wealth> <obscene waste>
synonym see COARSE
So 'fart' is *mildly* obscene, as are things like "snot". Creepside - go for it. Freepside <shrug> IMHO it's inappropriate. BTW, it's perfectly ok to have differing opinions. It doesn't make one of us right or one of us wrong. That's kinda what the whole TOS thing is for - to set community standards and provide a venue for managing conflicts in how different people play.
And if I played in the Moors, I'd understand that the context, ergo the standards, are different. ;)
Fortunately on Landroval at least, this is not a major problem at the moment. Perhaps because it is somewhat known that Landroval is the Unofficial RP server, though its not that big of a problem on other servers either. You still see stupid and or blatantly Lorebreaking names, but not that often.Quote:
Originally Posted by StavroMuellerBeta
The CONCERN is that this could become an epidemic when F2P hits. Yes, an RP server would be helpful to those of us who are a bit more sensitive to running across a characters named HeyIjustpooped Anddidntwipe.
That's about 5x as many as I've reported. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Saesa
There'd be a "massive filling-out-of-forms" if people who got upset about names played on the servers where I've played. I've seen a lot of names that many of you would very likely report. I guess that's one of the benefits of playing on a server where, in general, people just don't care what others name their toons.
ya know...im actually amazed that the forums mods havent jumped in here...we have so derailed this thread...:p
is it possible to get it back on track or is the subject done?
:D
My comments are general in nature phaelan2 and are not directed specifically to you, but to all. Your comment gave me the desire to share my opinion again in this thread on the current news being discussed.Quote:
Originally Posted by phaelan2
Oh Yes, the game WILL change in many ways now. When a MMO goes from P2P to F2P it always changes. Game Mechanics will change because Turbine will listen to the F2P people and respond to their suggestions... because the F2P crowd will outnumber the subscribers by far. Game Mechanics that have been hammered out in the past will be on the list of "possible changes" just to keep the player count up. LotRO's wide open world will have zone portals installed to keep F2P out of areas they choose not to pay for and the ingame world itself will suffer as a result.
But that will not be the biggest change. The biggest change will be the community itself and it will never be the same. You will have Kinships refusing new Players unless they can prove they are subscribers, you will Kinships of F2P people that run thru the free areas will little to no idea of how to behave in a MMO. A MMO community should NEVER be split like this and LotRO's will be no matter how Turbine implements this system. The Players will make it so themselves because we are human and we make mistakes.
For me, LotRO going F2P is just sending an invitation to the whole world to adventure in Middle Earth. A lot of people say that it is a good thing.
I say It's not a good thing. 90% of people should NOT play MMOs in my opinion as they will never really comprehend them or understand them, and the monthly subscription and lifetime subscription helped keep people out of LotRO that don't belong there. My proof? Go play any online game or MMO where it is F2P in the starter areas and P2P later in the game. The F2P areas are horrible with the chat and the players on how they treat each other, and only when you reach the paid areas does the community start acting the way they should in a MMO. This is a generalization and doesn't apply to all F2P /P2P hybrids but it does apply to most since I have subscribed to most and found this to be true. LotRO is a shining place of hope for an old gamer like me that has no patience for griefers and gold spammers. That will now change. (And no I did not start playing MMOs as a kid, I started when I was 35. That might explain my opinion on this. MMOs are for adults, not children imho. MMOs should always be subscription based not F2P... to my way of thinking this helps insure that only the Players that are true commited Players will in fact be able to play the game. In a MMO there is no room for players looking for a free lunch.)
Yes I am a jerk, and a committed one of how I believe MMOs should do "busines", and that brings up my final "big picture" point in my post....
MMOs are supposed to be Works of Art first and businesses second. I do not care what kind of argument you toss at me about "real life and financial obligations" and all that. MMOs are NOT supposed to be get rich quick schemes for anyone involved in them. If the Investors and Shareholders of WB and Turbine desire bigger returns on their investments they should get of of the MMO genre and put their money somewhere else. IMHO the only reason the "Elephant in the Room" has as many subscibers as they do is due to the contracts they make Retails sign in order to carry their product. It's arm twisting for retail shelf space, nothing more. Sometime's the old tricks are the best tricks in business... maybe Turbine should consider doing the same if they really want more Subs instead of going F2P.
MMOs are all about "Time" itself... time spent in game over years, time spent traveling form place to place, time spent waiting for fellowship members to log in, etc. If LotRO is not making money fast enough for Warner Bros. or Turbine, then they should not be in the MMO business in the first place. Same goes for the Players that scream for "instant gratification" cash shop items... if you are not will to spend time and energy ingame for the items, you don't deserve them anyways. What if you are not a good enough Player to do the Raids to get the Radiance Gear? If you can't earn it you don't deserve it.
By the way... I am in fact one of those Players that are not skilled enough to run a Raid Instance to get Radiance Gear... I do not have what it takes to earn it, therefore I should not have it under any circumstance. I stand by this characteristic of classically designed MMOs and believe that LotRO should be even more classically designed than it currently is. I gain NOTHING from the present system and in fact stand to gain from buying Radiance Gear from the Cash Shop (no matter what Turbine says right now these items will be in the cash shop eventually).
I am a Lifer and I am staying. I will stay here to try and talk some sense into Turbine if I can, even if no one reads my posts. Even though I am a Lifer I care about each and every square inch of the ingame world, and just because I will be spending much more time in premium areas does not mean I do not care about what will soon be known as the "Free" areas. If one area of the game is great and another is is horrible, then to me the whole thing stinks like an Orc. (I no longer support the idea of Lifetime subscriptions in any MMO or online game since I believe it hurts the Devs long term, and may be why LotRO is in this mess right now.)
This is my last post on this matter as it makes me furious to think that the Staff at Turbine could so thoroughly forget what MMOs are all about that they made the decision they did. Yes I believe Turbine has made a huge mistake, as do all Developers that take their MMOs F2P or design just a online game (and not a MMO) and yet call it a MMO. I am commited to the classic MMO genre (and the classic subscriber system) for the rest of my gaming life and would hope that Developers, current and future will be as well. Turbine's decision does not encourage me that that will happen though.
It could be considered obscene, based on two older meanings of the word.Quote:
Originally Posted by elderlygamer
I've probably reported a score or so names since the game launched.Quote:
Originally Posted by elderlygamer
All of my Freep characters have lore appropriate names save one. That one would be my Hobbit Minstrel. I just had to be have a little fun with her name.
The result?
Itsnot
When she got levelled up enough, I gave her a Surname. :)
She's now known as Itsnot Brainsurgery.
To date, everyone I've met and talked with while playing her has commented positively on her name. The most common statement is appreciation for the creativity of the name.
I have been known to say (in fellow chat) "After seeing that move... maybe it is." :D
My point is that with the new players coming in with F2P many are going to login, see the sparse suggestions that Turbine has at character creation, try a few, and then find something else that works. Goofy name or not, they are just going to want to get in the game. Some of the people that do not like the borderline names need to either lighten up or suggest something to Turbine in beta (if I get in, I will do just that). Players should not be forced to resort to a google search to find a "suitable" name. Maybe once they are in they will like the game and take time on future characters to do that but I just don't see it happening with the majority of free players. I agree with some that the newbie areas are going to be filled with names that used to "ittitate" me. I must point out that I am not talking about names that break the TOS; I report those.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayrolen
I looked at your signature and I would have never come up with any of those by logging in and naming my character at the creation screen. I like them and all, but it is getting harder to name characters by just logging on and giving it a go.
I am in favor of the F2P change. I was just pointing out that the people who complain about this bringing in a bunch of people that are not going to go to lengths to find "appropriate names" do have a point. Frankly, I just think people need to give a little leeway and get over it as long as it does not break the TOS. For the record, most of my names are somewhat appropriate and I put time into most of them. I just think that there will be many complaints unless there are more suggestions added to character creation. My names are "dwin, dwormir, dwiddle, geofram, podrig, istion, dwir, tawnee, grawlp, padar" and it is just getting harder to get names that I like. Grawlp is just my level 1 and might need to be renamed; I was just having a hard time finding a dwarf name without searcing the web.
Yes it did and I won't comment about names in this thread again. Sorry!Quote:
Originally Posted by carlosjuero
I both agree and disagree. I don't raid, so agreed, I am not entitled to raid gear. However.... why should the best gear only drop in raids? Why should non-raiders be relegated to second-best? Why shouldn't there be some roughly equivalent gear that is available through quests, soloing or crafting? Certainly those players also put in time, committment and skill.Quote:
Originally Posted by gardavil
Sounds much like freeps who wish to see better pvp gear though pvp, and I can't blame them, I know of at least 2-3 creeps who creep because they don't want to grind pve endlessly just to pvp. I miss the days that there was no single set of gear that was better than the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saesa
Um, what? Who made you the MMO overlord, where everything in the industry must match your concept of MMO's?Quote:
Originally Posted by gardavil
Don't get me wrong, I prefer 'works of art' over blatant short-term cash-grabs, but that's what market forces sort out, separating those games that survive, those that thrive, and those that burn out.
I'd say around half-a-dozen or so. Partly because I so infrequently see outrageous names on Landroval, partly because I give most names a pass knowing that Landroval isn't an "Official" RP server, and partly due to my policy that if I see a level 30+ character with a stupid name I generally won't report it given their time invested in that character already (unless it's blatantly offensive).Quote:
Originally Posted by elderlygamer
I expect my reporting frequency to rise and for CS will be overwhelmed with reports when F2P hits.
I can think of 4 offhand since launch, two of which were changed, the other two haven't been logged in since 4/17 and 4/19 respectively, so I'm not real worried about those.Quote:
Originally Posted by elderlygamer
Michaelbay (and Ronhoward on Elendilmir) gets to stay, but Kevingarnett got renamed years ago. Consistency has never been one of Turbine's highest ranked virtues. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Saesa
No the market place does not force out garbage in favor of quality. I could write an entire Research Paper on this and why most customers buy what they choose to buy. People buy and play garbage if it is offered.Quote:
Originally Posted by auximenes
And No I am no MMO God, and neither is any other person here that supports Turbine's decision. My post was my opinion. If you don't agree with it that is OK by me. I don't agree with most of the posts in this thread.
Every single Player has the right to their opinion and I respect that. That is a part of how Players are supposed to treat each other in MMOs... and something that is forgotten all too frequently in the last few years as witnessed by the posts on MMO Forums.
LOL! <shrug> That's the thing - if there's a /report on a name and Turbine does nothing, end of story. In the end, it's Turbine's call.Quote:
Originally Posted by gildhur
Well, they have a very strange inner voice guiding their every move, what can I say? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Darej
In all seriousness, I'm here to have fun, and while some demonstrate their creativity through the music system, I like to do it with characters. Each and every one of them did have a lot of thought not only go into their names, but how they look - and in turn they all say something about the person you'll be dealing with by interacting with them.
I just figured it would fit well with the class - I also made him with a very military-esque appearance (i.e. square jaw, very short hair) :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Brandon_Blackbird