Have you thought to log onto the server you will be moving to and creating (or attempting to) your characters? Then all you have to do is delete them just before you transfer then for your current server :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Silmarod
Printable View
Have you thought to log onto the server you will be moving to and creating (or attempting to) your characters? Then all you have to do is delete them just before you transfer then for your current server :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Silmarod
First check should be the passive/active check. If both chars were active within the last year (or 6 months) the next criteria should be the date of the character creation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silmarod
Date/time stamp of character creation would be the most accurate way to handle the naming conflict in my opinion. This would be fair to all the players on every server (!) and would handle the "lvl 1 blocking character problem" as well . In addition to that every player has the same criteria without any advantages/disadvantages. Think most of the accounts could keep at least a few names as the original names.
I strongly disagree. Everyone advocating any of these types of solutions is unintentionally being very self centered and here is why. If you are transferring, you are leaving a (relatively) very small community to enter a much larger community. In addition not all transfers from your community are going to choose the same destination server. So let's say 25% of your community moves to the same destination you choose. You are about to become a small fraction of the larger community. Community dynamics are all about relationships. If there is a pre-established identity associated with a name on a server, whether that name has been in use for 6 months or 6 years, it is patently unfair to force the larger community to force them to re-learn who "Delador" or "Rhoewyn" is just to satisfy a single player and his small group. In this case, the good of the whole outweighs the good of the one. Most especially since friend lists will not transfer but will stay in place on servers that remain open. Would it have been much better if a way could have been found to allow for a surname or something? Sure that would have been great, but it was probably only ever a fool's hope. In the absence of a far more complex database system, this is the way that is most fair to most people. And what is wrong with lvl 1 blocking exactly? Many of us did it long ago and Vyv herself advised it in this forum as a way to save your name. So if the Exec Producer advocates it, it isn't a problem to Turbine. If you get name trolled at this point, to be honest I have a hard time mustering sympathy. I had zero names reserved prior to the announcement last winter. When the announcement came I reserved as many names as I could on the servers most likely to remain open. Everyone had the chance to do so. People that haven't made the effort have themselves to blame. There is a system in place to deal with inactive accounts, and again Vyv has been clear on it. To me that was both a reassurance that people that truly have no interest in the game any longer wont block you, and a hint to people that DO have place holders for names they want to make sure you log in to save it. If you get named trolled at this point, to me you didn't really want your name that bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delador
Now there will be legit cases of you tried to save your name but an active player on the server you move to has it already. That's unfortunate but that person is also already known to the community at large and should keep the name. Probably the best thing you can do is decide to reinvent yourself. Many characters in Tolkien's works had many names they were known by. Perhaps rename yourself and take your old name as your surname? Maybe instead of Rhoewyn I will call myself Fendomir and that name will become my "Thoringil." There is no perfect answer.
Well spoken, Rhoewyn, I could not agree more. However, personally I am stupid, since I have an ethical approach telling me it is cheating to reserve names in advance. Roll the dice, it is only a game character name.
That is what I did and how I found out I was going to have a problem there. I added my character-names that I found used by others as friends and discovered them to be used by characters ranging from lvl 1 to lvl 23 (that lvl 23 being the most senior one) . Some of my names are blocked that way on both remaining worlds.So no hope there,unless the rules change to be more fair.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynniekins
I do think there should be an appeal process to deal with troll name stealing. I understand player seniority being taken into account would cause name>rename 'cascading'* but because of this, as predicted, the name taking trolling has already begun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazen
A former kinnie has had all his names taken on Landroval. He is ok with renames for his other characters (despite having some of them since 2007) but he has a R15 Captain General. That character's name was free on Landy until the recent announcement. (I had checked because I was seeing who had migrated in the last year and I could not find or add it to my friends' list.) Now a newly level 1 toon has it. As of last week or so. He may not transfer the character at all, anywhere, because of this. And Landroval therefore loses a great player and high level character so the moors becomes less for it. This has left a really nasty taste in my mouth. If I find out who did it they will be reported to their tribe and kin and loudly denounced in world. But that is about all I can do. I am so angry on his behalf. :mad:
I am kicking myself I didn't reserve it for him when the server transfers were announced months ago, as I did for a kinnie on a different server. Bbut I am an innocent type and didn't think anyone would be so petty and stupid as to take such a well known in PvP characters' name, which is also a quite unusual name. The chances of it being 'accidental' or innocent are zip. (Unlike my other friend who has a very loreish name from the Sil, that he got in 2007. I reserved a variation for him as the original had of course been taken.)
I also thought turbine would have a name check system for this eventuality...
This type of thing is obvious griefing and should be appeal-able or investigated by the CM I think...
*rename cascading: ie legolas of elendilmir moves to landy and takes name of landy's legolas, then legolas the more senior moves from silverlode and takes name of previous transferee etc. etc. It would cause chaos.
But rank 1s created since the announcement should be checked to see if there is a character transferring in on the same account, or if the rank 1 was simply created as a grief generating placeholder.
edit: I think I mixed up my quotes when posting this (forum defaults to the wrong name! ironic) but i left it because it raises a real issue
I fully agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delador
The same situation is happening to some friends of mine too and the problem are not other players who really have introduced a character into a comunity,but players who obviously have recently created characters to grab names.None of those characters has ben played to more then lvl23,most not even having the lvl you reach if you complete the starting area.And those getting the precedence over really played and developed characters with playtimes of many months is simply unfair.If you dont even reach a minimum lvl and playtime you certainly can not be a character integrated in the comunity.
I still don't get it. Why are you so sure someone took the name to mess with your kinmate? Maybe there is somebody on another closing server, who just happens to have the same name and saved it for himself on the new server?
Am I really the only one to believe that there's still mostly good people out there? :(
I'm starting to be afraid to be hated a a troll myself, because those people with my name wo will transfer before me, will be renamed, because I have a lvl 1 toon to reserve my name and I will be fith in line. (Was that an ok sentence? :D)
All his character names were taken by level 1s created last week. None of them are obvious lord of the rings names. His main is known across servers and other his names are known because they are in his sig... He got to Captain General the hard way-it took years of mostly soloing and small groups. Many creeps from his current server have moved to landy, or are planning to. There was animosity between the creep tribes and individual creeps and his kin, as there often is in PvP land. Some (not all, or even many, but some) of these people would think it was funny. I put 2 plus 2 plus 2 and got 6. I hope I am wrong. It hadn't entered my head people would do this until I was told all his names had been taken last week. And I repeat, they are not common Lotro-ey type names.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilalene
But this is the reason I suggested an account check and character activity check process.
You reserved a name because you have that name on your account elsewhere. If, by some chance, all his names belong to other players with active accounts on other servers facing transfer, then so be it, But I doubt this is the case. So a way to appeal would be nice.
Almost exactly my thoughts when I read Calta's post. One can never be sure if it is just another player who reserved the name for one of his characters or if it is a troll that wants to annoy someone. Even Turbine can't tell the difference. We can just reserve what we need and hope for the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilalene
I created placeholders for all my characters that I intend to transfer. I also created placeholders for the new names I had to invent because some of my names where already taken. All of these characters are still level 1 except for one character that existed on the destination server anyway. Am I bad now just because I took my chances?
Clearly you didn't read my reply. I think it makes it clear. But since you have never agreed with anything I post (edt: and often misconstue what I amsaying for whatver reason) I am not surprised you don't this time either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fratonia
Not even with this, which seems reasonable to me and many others.....
:)Quote:
But this is the reason I suggested an account check and character activity check process.
You reserved a name because you have that name on your account elsewhere. If, by some chance, all his names belong to other players with active accounts on other servers facing transfer, then so be it, But I doubt this is the case. So a way to appeal would be nice.
I agree in general terms though I might suggest that the overall criteria (character creation date/time) be weighted by /played time (or possibly vice versa). It doesn't seem fair for a character created in open beta and subsequently abandoned to be favored over a character with the same name created at game launch (a few weeks later) and played regularly. Having said this, I don't know how the formula should be weighted or what it should look like. I think this is where the real debate lies. Overall, I don't think it's fair to ask players on servers to be closed to "suck it up" due to an action they had no choice in. Turbine should strive to adopt a method that is as fair as possible to all players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delador
What ever the most equitable means of determining character name ownership is decided to be, it could be integrated into the Name Challenge Token item proposed in the Player Suggestions sub-forum.
Oh, wow, ok. Thanks for the clarification, Calta. In this case I understand it.
No problems. I didn't want to spell out too much in first post, because-well it's about someone else. But i could see your point. So I was happy to clarify. Good luck with your transfers. I hope it is smooth sailing :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilalene
Well I see only one occurrence where GMs should take action in regard to names, that is when someone is trying to extort money/gold from another player in return of a name.
I have creeps both in worlds that will remain and will be closed.
What will happens to the ones on the worlds that will be closing?
Will it be allowed to play with more that one toon per class per server?
Although the name part is something I haven't really bothered with the impact on the remaining servers has. Since I will be moving from a server that had pretty much no problem with lag i'm wondering how the other servers are holding out. From what I understand the servers aren't running new hardware yet so are we looking at enormous lag and queue's? Also with the staged release of servers to migrate won't the ones last be the ones with the least options because of possible temporary server closures and a limited or just no time acces to the transfers between the remaining worlds in case the one you initially transfered to is just to crowded?
I hope turbine is able to get answers out to this type of problems quickly.
The name conflict determination has already been decided and won't change.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheREALify
Any system where some form of "seniority formula" is used that allows one player to take over the name of another player WITHOUT that player's consent, could mean that name jumps from player to player to player for a while, and you will never know if the inactive player on an old server that played from beta to 2014 will come back one day and take over the name as he is "on top of the food chain" so to speak. That just isn't going to work.
The name challenge token is an interesting idea, if incorporated with the current rules. But again, I'm afraid that ship has sailed, and that code has been put in production. Any suggestions we are making here, may be considered for something like Update 17, but we will have to go through the current server closures with the current name conflict system, it isn't going to change. (And quite frankly, not sure that it ever will, although I could see a change in the rename system to take over a then-inactive character).
Currently (and for the past 7? years) whenever freeps were nearby many of us creeps would start lagging. The lag was sort of like a free freep tracker. Does this mean that lag won't exist? That's both good and bad. ;)Quote:
The new data center we will be moving provides a much faster connection to the internet with more direct ports to all territories.
First, thank you for your measured response and input. I appreciate it. I would respond by saying that as long as the player with the greatest investment is awarded the contested name, I think it would work just fine. I do, however, understand your comment and realize the name swapping could potentially carry on for some time. I considered this prior to making the suggestion and one thing I had considered was to distribute the Name Challenge Token via in-game mail at some point after the transfers for the last server to be closed had begun. This way the in-game mail and attached token would evaporate after 30 days (if I'm not mistaken about unopened mail lifespan). Indeed, the token itself could be designed with an expiration date. Unfortunately, this further complicates a system that was intended to be relatively easy to create. But it *could* be done.Quote:
Originally Posted by maartena
I agree with this completely. Had the proposal come at the first announcement of server closures then maybe it could have been incorporated...maybe. However, I'm reasonably certain it's far too late now. I do still think the suggestion could be utilized at a later date, perhaps with some modifications, after the transfers were (mostly) completed. It would require Turbine to commit to the notion and make the player-base aware that such a token was in the works and not to use the Rename Token if players were of a mind to fight for ownership of a particular name. This alone may doom the idea.Quote:
The name challenge token is an interesting idea, if incorporated with the current rules. But again, I'm afraid that ship has sailed, and that code has been put in production. Any suggestions we are making here, may be considered for something like Update 17, but we will have to go through the current server closures with the current name conflict system, it isn't going to change. (And quite frankly, not sure that it ever will, although I could see a change in the rename system to take over a then-inactive character).
I was just trying to separate the current transfer process and name conflict resolution process and develop a means by which the current transfer / name conflict resolution system could be left as is but augmented by a further challenge process. My goal was to pick up where they left off, as it were.
Again, thank you for your response and input.
Fundamental Attribution Error is when people presume an intent of behavior is the cause of an action rather than objective circumstance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fratonia
Six years ago I didn't know which server I wanted to play on, so made some characters on most with the names I found available/liked. I also didn't know how much people played on different servers, so wanted to be recognized in other places if they did. When F2P servers were added, I grabbed those names there as well as the simpler derivatives that were not available when I started playing. If folks now go to one of the remaining servers to check for their used name on four of the other remaining, it'll be taken, not because of malice toward them, but because when F2P came along I thought I might play on the less crowded servers (which promptly became too crowded).
So, yeah, typically the cause is not what people claim or expect, particularly when they believe it was specifically done just to bother them.
A name challenge token after the transfer process is complete, or an appeals process for specific examples could take into account the following:Quote:
Originally Posted by RJFerret
- characters all created symultaneously by the same account (history of trolling by that account holder and in game bans and forum infractions could also be looked at.)
- characters' names having no relation to or variation of names elsewhere on the account, on any server, at anytime
- characters created being level 1 and never played after creation/transfers open
- all said level 1 characters names 'belonging' to one other player with high level characters (especially if they are ranked 11 and above in PVP) on a closing server.
If all these boxes are ticked them it should be investigated. Because then it smells very fishy indeed. Particularly the last point.
The example quoted and elaborated on was nothing like the example you and Fratonia gave, and is therefore not a case of fundamental attribution error. Given the data and all the circumstances, it was in fact a case of Occams Razer. :P
^I agree with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by maartena
It's sad that some people will lose their names. (I've even lost a few, myself.) But, let's face it, that's just how it's going to be. It's the same as any time you go to play ANY game and your name has already been taken. You just have to deal with picking another. Somebody else got it before you. Tough. You shouldn't be coming up with ways to essentially "duke it out" and see who is more "deserving" of the name. The one who is deserving of it already has it.
It's good that Turbine is allowing name overrides for characters that haven't been used in a year or more. I've seen that happen elsewhere, too, and that's good. But pitting current, playing customers against each other in some sort of "seniority" contest isn't fair, and causes far more bad feelings than it's worth in the end.
EDIT: And you aren't even *losing* the name. You just have to deal with a -1, or whatever. Turbine didn't even have to do that, they could have just randomly generated a name for everybody transferring, and given them a name change token. It's not something worth causing more problems over.
No, I didn't read your reply. At the time I started to answer Lilalene your post wasn't there. Now that I finished my business trip I could read what you replied. Not sure if I want to since you are so eager to take it personal...Quote:
Originally Posted by Calta
Now that character creation is disabled on these worlds, when can we transfer? I would like to get this unpleasant business over with. It feels like living in a foreclosed house but having no idea when you will be allowed to move out of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyvyanne