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The problem is that the community can be irreparably damaged if something is not done. No one, at least no one I know, wants to see the LOTRO community turn into what the WoW community has become. That is the risk we face. Ignoring the problem (like an infection), will allow it to fester.
Come to Nimrodel, we don't seem to have a problem with this. Oh, glff is kinda crazy and nobody is looking for a group there anyway. There are some grumpy older players who think they know everything and some new "I'm bored with WoW until the next expansion so I'll go play this free game" crowd, but mostly fine.
There is no such thing as "free speech" when you're playing an MMO. You agreed to the ToS, CoC, and EULA before you started playing the game. Turbine's servers, Turbine's rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by KelronVladseal
Indeed. More GMs, more account support, and a toll-free (I almost typed troll-free. lol.) number are at the top of my list of things to do with WB's budget.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laire
Sorry, but no. The profanity filter is not in place to give people an excuse to have diarrhea of the mouth and I get really sick and tired of players telling other players that when they get asked to tone it down. I swear as much as the next person, but there's a time and a place and I know better than to do it in a public chat channel when I have no idea who is watching.Quote:
Originally Posted by Synther
I have found /ignore to be quite useful. It may take a week or so but if you keep using the ignore command the chat channels quiet down quite a bit.
There seems to be several underlying issues here...
To those that are responding to the OP, yes...the game is "Rated T for Teen", thus it is up to every parent to monitor their children. I agree with this wholeheartedly, in gaming and in life.
However, with that being said, think of the game as a store. Lets say you are the store owner, and you have a group of people outside your store harassing customers by calling them names, using racist tones and pushing and shoving your customers around as they try to get in the front door.
What do you do? Ignore them and tell your customers to "deal with it"? I seriously doubt it. If you did that, you wouldn't have any customers after about two days.
Do you ask the people to leave? Sure. But then they come back the next day and do it all over again.
So, your only choice as a business owner at that point is to call the police and petition your city council to instate loitering laws.
Same principle here.
Um...
Unsubscribe from the glff channel.
Put the other public channels on their own tab, you can refer to them when you want to.
Enable your profanity filter, it really works well.
Report the folks you see talking and acting that way.
There are ways to deal (or avoid dealing) with the inappropriate chat.
I'm no prude, and I think the bit about the kids is irrelevant. I gree in part with the OP, however; the chat does frequently get out of hand.
I report those violations. Dropping a couple of naughty words will likely earn a /tell from a +GM asking to "tone down the language, please." Repeat offenses or egregiously vulgar chat will almost certainly result in stronger sanctions. But they can only be punished if they are reported.
I also support the call for making reporting chat violations much easier to report. I suspect part of the problem is the ticket-filing process involved. Naturally, it was also be necessary to punish abuse of such a feature.
quoted for soothQuote:
Originally Posted by Lochhi
Telling people to use /ignore and to turn off chat channels isn't the answer to this problem. If your neighbors stand outside their house and swear, use racial slurs, and talk about their sex life do you want the police to tell you to close your windows and turn on some music? Hey! it solves everything, now you don't have to hear them talking!
I don't want to HAVE to turn off all the chat channels. I don't want to HAVE to ignore people left and right. There needs to be a better solution given by Turbine since this is their world.
It's funny because, in these United States, that's exactly what the police do. Do you know WHY? The 1st amendment. And while these boards might be run like a marxist regime, the USA is not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ualtar
Fail beliefs = fail analogy = fail post
This is not the country for you.
Technically, you are not correct. Swearing in front of children is against the law. Talking about certain sexual acts in front of children is against the law. Disturbing the peace is against the law. Free speech is limited.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xzim
More to the point, if I own a business, I have every right to control what people say and hear inside my premises. Turbine does as well. Hopefully they will clamp down on things before the community is irreparably harmed by the influx of bad apples. That is the risk we face. Ignoring the problem (like an infection), will allow it to fester.
No need to be rude to people with whom you disagree xzim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xzim
ummm.....and how much police or criminal justice experience do you have?
Most places have at the very least municipal codes for noise and such things. So umm....you fail....sorry....:p
Now that we've wandered a bit off topic..Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradd
http://www.heraldtribune.com/article...NEWS/710090507
I'm sure there are more cases. Point being, there's no such thing as "Free Speech" in this game, or on these forums, and the profanity filter is not a license to type swear words in game - plus, no one can accidently type swear words. It's a concious decision.
What I do is report, then ignore. I don't need people like that in this game.
Ualtar:
Indeed. I think some folks should try this.....
Walk up to a cop. Call him or her a dirty name. See what happens. It will be jail boy-o! as depending on the jurisdiction, is is an offense to curse a police officer.
Where I live, it is an offense to engage in public profanity. Not really enforced, but is someone complained and it was egregious, well, as Mr. Deltoid in "A Clockwork Orange" said "it will be the bar-y place."
And whatever the case, Turbine has the right to set what rules it wants within its business....whether we like it or not.
Noise != ContentQuote:
Originally Posted by Ualtar
Reading comprehension 4tw. Also, pick up a dictionary sometime, it will help. Seriously, read what you post before hitting the submit button. It will prevent these embarassing "oh I guess I should have actually READ that before opening my mouth" moments.
No municipal code can undermine your 1st amendment right to say what you want when you want provided it doesn't cause possible physical harm to anyone within ear shot (i.e. screaming fire in a theater).
Fail vocabulary = fail rebuttal = fail post
Edit: And I'd be in an appelate court the next day if I got smacked with that charge. Drunk in public is one thing that's a whole 'nother story.
Er, Xzim.
I believe you are woefully unaware of the law.
Whatever the case, at this point you are simply insulting people with whom you disagree.
Your ascerbic attitude does not add strength to your basic arguement.
Indeed, it is my opinion that you are simply trying to provoke people.
Oh! And to your observation that you appeal the public cursing law...well, laws such as that have been upheld in the Supreme Court...sorry.
If that was "rude" for you, stay out of New York. Especially it's penal system. In fact, avoid the entire eastern and western seaboard. Midwestern life is more your style (barring illinois, wisconsin and indiana).Quote:
Originally Posted by Aolain
Thats all well and good but not everyone in game is from your united states. Many of us are from around the world, saying people are allowed to carry on any way they please because its your constitutional right holds no weight in cyberspace "You cant lock me up because im an American citizen" doesnt work im afraid, and it certainly doesnt give you the right to carry on anyway you please.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xzim
We used to have a thing called common courtesy and respect for others. Now while im all for the right of the the individual to express themselves and their opinions it doesnt have to turn into a vulgar slanging match. You might feel you have the right to swear and carry on but we also have the right not to have to put up with it and to be subjected to it.
First, I find it somewhat ironic that the person with 35 posts is telling the person with over 700 how to post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xzim
Secondly, you are simply not correct about the law. I have been a lawyer for 26 years, and can assure you that free speech is much more limited than you seem to believe.
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Tex. Penal Code Ann. §§ 42.01(a)(1), 49.02(a) (West Supp. 2007) concerning disorderly conduct -- The statute states: the statute provides: “a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly: (1) uses abusive, indecent, profane, or vulgar language in a public place”
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Georgia Code - Crimes and Offenses - Title 16, Section 16-11-39 - (a) A person commits the offense of disorderly conduct when such person commits any of the following: ...
(3) Without provocation, uses to or of another person in such other person´s presence, opprobrious or abusive words which by their very utterance tend to incite to an immediate breach of the peace, that is to say, words which as a matter of common knowledge and under ordinary circumstances will, when used to or of another person in such other person´s presence, naturally tend to provoke violent resentment, that is, words commonly called 'fighting words'; or
(4) Without provocation, uses obscene and vulgar or profane language in the presence of or by telephone to a person under the age of 14 years which threatens an immediate breach of the peace.
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It does when you use an IRL analogy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbut
Fail logic = fail post.
Try again.
I have been reading MANY posts and replies on this subject and I have to agree with the OP that things are bad on chat right now, and hope it gets better. But I also see another problem in that those of us who have been here a long time, paid for our subs, dealt with all the patches ,gold-spammers, participated in Beta's and helped this game grow to be the fine game it is, are being attacked for pointing out that we are not real happy with some of the things we see happening. The Eliteist label is being thrown at anyone who has a problem with the behaviour that has escalated since going to FTP. I love this game, and have met some awsome folks on here, and Im not that willing to let that decay in the name of 'live with it, thats life on the interet'. If Turbine had let these things go on 'back in the day', this would not be as popular game as it is now. LOTRO gamers have overwhealmingly been supportive of new players in the past and I see that spirit just as alive now. But to say that the level of bad behaviour in the chat hasn't increased greatly since FTP, just isnt realistic. We have a right to be mad without also being labeled. Turbine didnt make this the highest rated game by themselves. The Players, Kinships, Creeps, Freeps, Lifers and newbies did that, and to let this continue by turning off chat channels and ignoring this is irresponsible.
I am greatful to those with the courage to speak out against this problem, because for some reason it does not seem to be a popular position.
Feel free to quote where I have insulted anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aolain
Fail reading = fail post.
Try again.
Actually you can't say whatever you want in the united states, just look up the first amendment and read the whole section. First amendment does NOT mean you have some sort of immunity from the law. Infact...
The fighting words doctrine, in United States constitutional law, is a limitation to freedom of speech as protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. In its 9-0 decision, Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire (1942), the U.S. Supreme Court established the doctrine and held that "insulting or 'fighting words,' those that by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace" are among the "well-defined and narrowly limited classes of speech [which] the prevention and punishment of...have never been thought to raise any constitutional problem."
Other exceptions include obsene language.
So yeah, freedom of speech doesn't mean you can say anything
things are funky right now...no doubt. but like some have mentioned, its not just the newbies out there that are acting inappropriate. if it isnt some f2p leet guy talking trash or foul, off topic language, it is some vet bashing a f2p for asking a question or making a comment. You can see examples of both sides acting like immature, elitist jerks in chat and here on the forums. the 'purists' are acting no better than the 'fr00berz' on many occasions. shame on you.
This was the first game in a very long time that i was able to actually use the zone/global channels...and for years I have used them. now I have found myself turning each and everyone off due to off topic, unrelated **** chat...forget glff, i am talking about advice, regional, etc...
...it isnt bad after the first few zones...and i usually turn on advice once i get back out of there. but i found that the only way to deal with it is to just turn them all off. I tried a bit of policing, with very calm, and pleasant "guys, can you please take this to OOC or /tells ?" ...and it always just started more **** chat...so i gave up. and honestly, now with everything turned off, it feels like the same old game again...more or less. kind of a shame, though...as i used to enjoy helping out people in the advice channels and finding groups through chat, etc.
/sadface