20 Questions – Big Battles

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Originally Posted by jwbarry

In my mind the tag line for upscaling is "Click, Enter, Play". That simple and straightforward. That means no new skills, no more trait points, no new virtues, no new equipment, nothing to configure or setup or learn. Your existing stuff is statistically scaled and away you go.

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So upscaling must go hand-in-hand with the new class changes I assume? Currently, a level 10 Guardian (for example) would have essentially zero AoE threat skills, no force taunts and no panic buttons like pledge... I'm sure other classes would fare equally poor if a L10 upscaled toon was compared to a genuine L95 counterpart.

While I don't expect you to talk about class changes just yet, it would be nice to hear if they will make upscaling more viable than it currently appears to stand.

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Originally Posted by Crell_1

Are there any plans for traditional Instanced group content (especially raids) set in Western Rohan or are Big-Battles strictly what we're expecting for this expansion. (Both at launch, and as part of our region purchase, even if delayed)

I'd expect them to come after launch, given that JWB seems to be the designer on this 'Big Battles' tech.


Are any of the 'Big Battles' Spaces going to involve the use of mounted combat?

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As mentioned in the questions, Big Battles is the instance offering for the Helm's Deep expansion.


None of the launch Big Battle spaces will utilize mounted combat. That may be something explored in the future (glances at Pelennor) but for now it's best to keep the 2 large complex systems apart from each other.

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Originally Posted by jwbarry

In my mind the tag line for upscaling is "Click, Enter, Play". That simple and straightforward. That means no new skills, no more trait points, no new virtues, no new equipment, nothing to configure or setup or learn. Your existing stuff is statistically scaled and away you go.

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With this being the case then we have a lot of major drawbacks if you end up in a 'big battle' with a character many levels lower than you since they will only have their normal skills for their real level (yes if they were auto granted all their skills they'd still be a major hindrance since they wouldn't know how to use their other skills) as well as their virtues. So for instance if you have a lower level Loremaster in your group they wouldn't know anything about power management for the group or how to crowd control very well or debuff, RKs won't have their preemptive rez or their big boom or heal skills yet. And that is just a couple of examples things lower players could be missing. So the question becomes for those auto leveled players will the potency of their skills be increased to make up for their lack of other skills?

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Originally Posted by Bhoris_they_spider

So upscaling must go hand-in-hand with the new class changes I assume? Currently, a level 10 Guardian (for example) would have essentially zero AoE threat skills, no force taunts and no panic buttons like pledge... I'm sure other classes would fare equally poor if a L10 upscaled toon was compared to a genuine L95 counterpart.

While I don't expect you to talk about class changes just yet, it would be nice to hear if they will make upscaling more viable than it currently appears to stands.

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Level 10 was selected after a series of very early on conversations with the group doing the class updates about how (and when) that work and the upscaling feature would best play together.

Will the level scaling also be added to the Moors?

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Originally Posted by jwbarry

You earn xp and all other scalable rewards at your true level. So in your question, a level 10 character who completed a quest in a Big Battle would earn experience as if he just completed a level 10 quest. Marks and medallions would be at level 10 earn rates. And any items potentially acquired would be munged to level 10.

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Originally Posted by jwbarry

A medal is a representation of how well you did on a quest. Thus it is not a physical material object and instead more of a badge or grade type concept. This means they are tied specifically to the character that played the big battle and completed the quest.

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Originally Posted by furtim

I don't understand how you got that from what jwbarry said. The way he described Medals sounds like something closer to deeds than RNG drops or even barter tokens. (Though it's probably not quite like deeds, either.)

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From these quotes: I see medals will not be a barter currency, more of a more nuanced version of what challenge and optional quests are in many current instances, and that potentially acquired items will be acquired while a part of the instance. Maybe they have some other plan, but it doesn't seem like much of a leap to assume class specific items rewarded while in the instance will function off the same basic remote looting RNG we have now, just with medals earned opening access to different quality items, and/or altering chance at said items.

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Originally Posted by jwbarry

As mentioned in the questions, Big Battles is the instance offering for the Helm's Deep expansion.

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Does this mean what's available when purchasing the HD "box" so to speak, or does this mean during the HD expac cycle?

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Originally Posted by Chris91

Will the level scaling also be added to the Moors?

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This would be an amazing idea to think about. Even better if the tech allowed scaled up players to 'store' the experience would've gained until they scale back down.

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Originally Posted by ColorSpecs

Does this mean what's available when purchasing the HD "box" so to speak, or does this mean during the HD expac cycle?

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Big Battles will be available at HD Launch.

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Originally Posted by jwbarry

In my mind the tag line for upscaling is "Click, Enter, Play". That simple and straightforward. That means no new skills, no more trait points, no new virtues, no new equipment, nothing to configure or setup or learn. Your existing stuff is statistically scaled and away you go.

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Is there anything that will keep this system from being generally relegated to use at level cap exclusively? You've said the currency is character bound.

If mechanically, these spaces have to be completed with L10 players 'skills', available, I'm not terribly encouraged for how they'll be enjoyed at L95.

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Originally Posted by Sapience

Big Battles will be available at HD Launch.

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I'll be more specific. Will there be a traditional instance cluster offered during the course of the xpac cycle?

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Originally Posted by Chris91

Will the level scaling also be added to the Moors?

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At launch no. Balancing out what needs to be scaled for characters to be functional and contribute to a system like Big Battles that has been designed for it will require one set of parameters and adjustments. Balancing out what needs to be scaled for characters to be functional and contribute to the Moors in a way that presents a decent quality play experience is a whole 'nother can of worms. Once we've got it out and through the wringer with Big Battles then we'll look to where the other opportunities to expand and utilize the technology may be and evaluate the work required to do so.

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Originally Posted by ColorSpecs

I'll be more specific. Will there be a traditional instance cluster offered during the course of the xpac cycle?

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No. There are no plans to do so. Big Battles are our new instanced content.

Thanks for the replies so far JW; one final question from me:

With regards to the decision to not have different tiers of difficulty, will there exist a reason to revisit the battles once I have gathered all the medals I need for my character i.e. deeds, titles, mounts etc? Lets say the raid has to perform almost flawlessly for the duration of the instance in order to achieve a '100% victory', will this be rewarded in some way beyond just extra medals? Put simply is there any carrot for raid groups to spend weeks/months trying to truly master an encounter and execute without flaw?

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Originally Posted by jwbarry

As mentioned in the questions, Big Battles is the instance offering for the Helm's Deep expansion.

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I guess I was trying to get at the traditionally offered 'Between Expansions' Region, and whether or not we'd expect something 1.Instanceless (Wildermore) 2. Instance Singular (Great River:Roots of Fangorn) 3. A Big Battle. 4.Instance Cluster (Edenwaith: In Their Absences).

I was trying to ask about the future of classic Instance clusters long term, and if you see 'Big Battles' as completely replacing the development of instances going forward. I enjoyed your work on Ost Dunhoth, as well as the Tower of Orthanc. Even with your name attached to 'Big Battles' I'm wary of the kinds of experiences I can have to look forward to with spaces 'mechanically' needing to work at Level 10+, just like they did this time at L20+.

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Originally Posted by Bhoris_they_spider

Thanks for the replies so far JW; one final question from me:

With regards to the decision to not have different tiers of difficulty, will there exist a reason to revisit the battles once I have gathered all the medals I need for my character i.e. deeds, titles, mounts etc? Lets say the raid has to perform almost flawlessly for the duration of the instance in order to achieve a '100% victory', will this be rewarded in some way beyond just extra medals. Put simply is there any carrot for raid groups to spend weeks/months trying to truly master an encounter and execute without flaw?

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I believe so. There are rewards for both the first time you earn a specific quality medal on a specific quest, and for the aggregate lifetime earn of the tiers of medals. And not every quest that has medals associated with it shows up every time you run any given space.

What's the different at lvl10 and lvl95 HD battle version? Only the rewards?

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Originally Posted by Crell_1

I guess I was trying to get at the traditionally offered 'Between Expansions' Region, and whether or not we'd expect something 1.Instanceless (Wildermore) 2. Instance Singular (Great River:Roots of Fangorn) 3. A Big Battle. 4.Instance Cluster (Edenwaith: In Their Absences).

I was trying to ask about the future of classic Instance clusters long term, and if you see 'Big Battles' as completely replacing the development of instances going forward. I enjoyed your work on Ost Dunhoth, as well as the Tower of Orthanc. Even with your name attached to 'Big Battles' I'm wary of the kinds of experiences I can have to look forward to with spaces 'mechanically' needing to work at Level 10+, just like they did this time at L20+.

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I would point back to:

Q11: How do the devs see Big Battles fitting in with the other types of instanced content currently in the game?
Q12: Is the Big Battle system something that will be used only for Helm's Deep, or will we see more of it in the future?

Different locations, stories and events in the game necessitate different gameplay to truly tell them in the most compelling manner. This new system is another vehicle for us to deliver and package gameplay in order to tell certain stories. There are locations and events where it will be the correct method, and others where instance clusters or skirmishes are the correct choice. This gives us another tool in the toolbox, it doesn’t replace and invalidate the other options. Our intention is that Scaling Instances, Skirmishes, Big Battles, and new clusters can co-exist with each other, each providing a different focus of rewards, target playerbase, and gameplay.


Making Big Battles now doesn't mean we'll never make another classic instance cluster or another skirmish. It all depends on what the story, location and events dictate is the best method for delivering the gameplay.

As for the timeline on what's coming when beyond Helm's Deep. Can't comment. Right now my focus is squarely on delivering the best possible Helm's Deep Big Battle experience as we possibly can, and not on worrying what may or may not be made next year.

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Originally Posted by AaylaKheledlire

What's the different at lvl10 and lvl95 HD battle version? Only the rewards?

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My understanding from all of this is that there is no difference between the two since they are all lvl 95 battles. The only 'difference' is that your rewards are scaled appropriately for your level. So for Marks/Medallions/Seals you get the drop rate you would at your 'base level' similarly with money and items.

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Originally Posted by Sapience

No. There are no plans to do so. Big Battles are our new instanced content.

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All hell is gonna break loose now. Might go into hiding for awhile. LOL

So a question that comes to my mind, reading through the 21+ questions being answered on this thread (thanks Sapience and JW for answering followups) with the rewards being tied to a single character, the one you play the instance with, will we be able to transfer rewards to Alt, in the same way that Hytbold rewards were transferable in Account?

That is something, that being an Alt heavy player, would really need to be there. I don't care if the currency is per character, as long as I can supply Alts without an inordinate amount of grind.

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Originally Posted by Eartholloth

All hell is gonna break loose now. Might go into hiding for awhile. LOL

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Nah, its not. Most of the players who like this content have already left. This just ensures that the xpac won't bring them back.

Can you comment about the kinds of differences the space will employ that will give the space a different 'Feel' to players playing at natural L10 vs natural L95. That is to say, since we're all going to be L95 in the space, what about the space will engage me as a level 95 player that wasn't there when I entered at level 10, other than I have tools at my disposal to potentially make the space easier.

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Originally Posted by jwbarry

At launch no. Balancing out what needs to be scaled for characters to be functional and contribute to a system like Big Battles that has been designed for it will require one set of parameters and adjustments. Balancing out what needs to be scaled for characters to be functional and contribute to the Moors in a way that presents a decent quality play experience is a whole 'nother can of worms. Once we've got it out and through the wringer with Big Battles then we'll look to where the other opportunities to expand and utilize the technology may be and evaluate the work required to do so.

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Thanks, I'm very glad you're considering this and I understand the difference between the 2 systems

But the system is just too good not to mention the use it would have for the Moors ;)

I can't really express how excited I am about the idea of being able to join level-capped players in content that's actually relevant to them.

I take my time to level (I hate abandoning quest lines) and still haven't gotten beyond level 43. I was beginning to think of the level cap as some kind of moving target that I'd never reach. On one hand, I really enjoy playing the game my way (i.e. taking it slow), but on the other hand, I also enjoy group content and there's just not a lot of players to group with.

I wouldn't have wanted to be auto-granted the remaining levels, because I'd feel like I'd missed something. 'Upscaling' sounds like a wonderful solution: I'll be able to join in and make myself (somewhat) useful, and when we're done, I can just keep working on whatever quest line I was on. I won't have to miss a thing! :)

One thing I'm wondering: should we expect upscaled characters to be more-or-less on the same footing as players who are actually level 95, or will there be an obvious difference? I don't really know what a battle like this is supposed to look like, but in a play, there's bigger and smaller roles. They're all needed, but some roles are easier to fill than others. Will the Big Battles be like that? E.g. my upscaled Hunter is still not quite good enough to take part in a real fight, but I can scout a bit and gather arrows and maybe kill a pair of sleeping guards? Or are all roles essentially the same level of difficulty?