World Transfers

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Originally Posted by Vyvyanne

Due to the way in which our friend's lists are created, these will not be transferable. The data is based on the name and not the ID of the character, so the new world would have no idea if a person of the same name is actually your friend or someone else. Same if your friend had to change their name for one reason or another.

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Based on my own experience this statement is not correct. The game world appears to track friend's by their numeric id. When a friend of mine on Meneldor changes her character's name. Her character is still on my friends list with the new name. I sometimes have trouble what the new name is.

I suspect the character numeric id is server unique. When you transfer to a different world, the character will get a new numeric id and the name may change. If would seem like all you would need to do when a character transfer occurs is keep enough of the origination information for example - name - numeric id - server to reconstruct the friends list. When you transfer a character with a friends list the - name - numeric id - server and transferred or not flag for each member on the friends list. This mechanism allow the friends list to be reconstructed regardless of the order of the character transfers.

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Originally Posted by Shryakaw

Will Landroval be kept up?

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Answer #1: You'll know in one week, when it will be announced officially.

Answer #2: Seems like a reasonable deduction from the info that there will be a NA RP server, and from Vyvyanne's statement that the RP rules in each region will be the same as they are now. I think it's unlikely that (say) Riddermark will be promoted to the NA RE server while Landy gets tossed into the bit bin.

Answer #3: Given that it has an amazing emergent culture not shared by the other servers (e.g. Weatherstock and Bounders of the Shire), sending it to the bit bin would be a cultural desecration like the Taliban blowing up the Buddhas of Bamiyan. Well, maybe that's an overstatement, but you know what I mean.

Executive summary: I think you're safe.

A question about the forums. Will each server forum be kept open or will you be closing them after a certain time period?

Wow this whole thing is just a sad read. Any one else get a bit choked up reading it. Anyways just have a couple of things

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Originally Posted by Vyvyanne

Any overage on the target server if combining shared items will go into overflow. As you empty items from slots or get more storage upgrades, those items will be able to be accessed. At no point are they lost.

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Wow, so if I have 30 shared slots on server a and server b... and server a closed so I move to server b I have to purchase more shared storage. Sorry to be the person to say this but that does not seem fair to the player. We are being forced to move and I undertsand the purchase was account wide just seems a bit off maybe I am reading it wrong through my tears so if I misinterpreted it I apologize just don't seem kosher to me that because of a forced move we may have to spend money

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Originally Posted by Vyvyanne

You will have 9/6 and in order to play the 3 extras you will need to delete a character or get extra slots. All of your characters do not have to go to the same world, however.

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So I have 13 available slots now, all filled on server A but I move to a server where I have to a server where I have 5 toons, I will go to 18/13 and have to pay to play 5 of my toons. Again, this just does not seem right. We are being forced to move. Doubling the amount of aslots per server is nice (so what its 42 toons per server now) but if people have 5 toons on 5 servers they will have to pay 595tp*20=11900 tp to play the toons they were able to play the day before but were forced to move? Sorry I think we should all be given free extra slots if transfering... a set number (maybe do something like half the aamount of purchased slots given for free (so if player a has purchased 10 slots the get 5 more free of charge as a good faith attempt by Turbine instead of forcing people to pay for something they all ready have))

This is much different than losing vip and those 2 slots. We knew going in we would lose them, but when forced it comes across as wrong. I do want to add I understand you are a business and need to make money but it feels like double dipping to me.

Please tell me I misunderstood this to

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Originally Posted by Vyvyanne

In the case of a conflict of Kinship name, the transferring Kinship will have a -1 added to their name and will need to open a ticket with Customer Support to choose a new name. We know this is not ideal, but this situation was one we did not have a good solution for in the time we had.

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So there is no way to open up free kinship renames for a set amount of time? Was that not done recently? Just seems like an easier option to let all players have a free kinship rename because we are the ones being forced to move

Sorry if this came across as crass, but my head is spinning. I knew this was coming and now have to cross my fingers and hope that Meneldor will not close. Now I find out if I transfer my toons from other servers to say Meneldor because they are closing I have to buy more shared storage and more character slots.

Hope I am not the only one kinda offended by this

A quick question about EU servers...

You've mentioned that there will be at least one roleplay server staying up, and one from each language - so that makes 3, with presumably 2 EN additional non-RP servers staying. This means that EN players (and all those in the EU that choose to go for an English language server, as they prefer it to French or German servers) that don't want to roleplay are going to be constricted to two servers?

Essentially, the question is, will RP still be as heavily enforced on Laurelin as it used to be? Because if so, I'd argue that means there is going to be some serious lag on the two remaining EN servers for the rest of that playerbase.

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Originally Posted by darthhager

Thank you so much Vyvyanne, Frelorn, and all game developers. This is a great deal of information to take in and I just hope, as I'm sure you do as well, that it all goes according to plan. As a VIP with a founder's membership and someone who has been

playing Lotro since day 1 way back in 2007, I would say this is a great sign that this game has new life and it is only a natural progression to the game. My only question is this - after reading the message from Frelorn about the transfer features and the

"button" that I will press to transfer from my low populated server - how long can I expect this process to take? Will my toons be available instantly or will there be some sort of data "transfer" needed to populate me to the new world?

Keep up the great job with getting information out as soon as you can reveal it and I will keep my fingers crossed that everything works according to plan.

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It will take some time, though hopefully that time will be measured in minutes. Indeed, I expect the transfer server to be overloaded at the start, but that'll be mitigated by having the likely smallest worlds being opened first. The automated transfer shares functionality with the automated copy to BR functionality. While I don't expect the copy to BR part to get the new features, what I can tell you is that the copy to BR tech does get the land-rush treatment at times.

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Originally Posted by Vyvyanne

We have checked the neighborhood situation and there are still lots of unclaimed land on all of the worlds. We will monitor the situation though and can add more neighborhoods if they begin filling up.

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This may just be very good thing for the housing situation. In 2 1/2 years I've never seen my neighbors on any of the servers. It would be nice to have the housing system updated in the future. Like the ability to put things wherever we want but granted that would be a huge update.

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Originally Posted by Marancil

I am on Firefoot-US.

As I understand you text, Frelorn (and Vyvyanne) migration between US and EU will not be possible, is not possible and, will never be possible? When I started playing there was no distinction between EU or US in the Launcher, and there was nothing in the download or the installer to tell me anything about what to consider when picking server.

I guess many EU players may be in this situation, and perhaps also many US players, we would like to transfer to our "Region" but can't and this also may have an impact on interacting with other players, timezones being a constant issue. (Yes I have said many times I play solo, but that is also a result of a necessity being on a "low populated" server...also a bit of a lonewolf...).

I must admit I am more than reluctant to end up on a "high populated" US server.

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Sadly we do not see cross region transfers ever being a thing that we can offer. This is due to the original regions being set up in two different account systems, which allowed duplicate character IDs to be created. The transfer of a character to a world on which it might share an ID with another character can result in the loss of all character data. This is not a situation we want to see happen, especially to some of the oldest characters on the servers.

Vyvyanne, Will the servers kept open be the more active servers?

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Originally Posted by Forestwyn

This may just be very good thing for the housing situation. In 2 1/2 years I've never seen my neighbors on any of the servers. It would be nice to have the housing system updated in the future. Like the ability to put things wherever we want but granted that would be a huge update.

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Maybe they could use this oppurtunity to create a Moria. Mirkwood / Lothlorien Rohan and Gondor Housing area it would be great

Come on Turbine... A cave Nieghborhood for Moria
Trees for Loth and Mirk
Mead Halls for Rohan
and Fortress Style for Gondor

Make it Happen please

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Originally Posted by kickman77

Wow this whole thing is just a sad read. Any one else get a bit choked up reading it. Anyways just have a couple of things



Wow, so if I have 30 shared slots on server a and server b... and server a closed so I move to server b I have to purchase more shared storage. Sorry to be the person to say this but that does not seem fair to the player. We are being forced to move and I undertsand the purchase was account wide just seems a bit off maybe I am reading it wrong through my tears so if I misinterpreted it I apologize just don't seem kosher to me that because of a forced move we may have to spend money



So I have 13 available slots now, all filled on server A but I move to a server where I have to a server where I have 5 toons, I will go to 18/13 and have to pay to play 5 of my toons. Again, this just does not seem right. We are being forced to move. Doubling the amount of aslots per server is nice (so what its 42 toons per server now) but if people have 5 toons on 5 servers they will have to pay 595tp*20=11900 tp to play the toons they were able to play the day before but were forced to move? Sorry I think we should all be given free extra slots if transfering... a set number (maybe do something like half the aamount of purchased slots given for free (so if player a has purchased 10 slots the get 5 more free of charge as a good faith attempt by Turbine instead of forcing people to pay for something they all ready have))

This is much different than losing vip and those 2 slots. We knew going in we would lose them, but when forced it comes across as wrong. I do want to add I understand you are a business and need to make money but it feels like double dipping to me.

Please tell me I misunderstood this to



So there is no way to open up free kinship renames for a set amount of time? Was that not done recently? Just seems like an easier option to let all players have a free kinship rename because we are the ones being forced to move

Sorry if this came across as crass, but my head is spinning. I knew this was coming and now have to cross my fingers and hope that Meneldor will not close. Now I find out if I transfer my toons from other servers to say Meneldor because they are closing I have to buy more shared storage and more character slots.

Hope I am not the only one kinda offended by this

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Kick, I'm pretty sure that shared storage is account based. I have 220 on my two main accounts. These had 210 during the last beta and I'm sure that they had 210 when I last did the BR copy available on login. So, I cannot see how you have more shared storage on server A than B. Now I can see that for character vaults and house storage.

I will check this when the game worlds reopen, for I have some scouts on all NA worlds. What I expect is that each would have their personal vault space at what ever level it was, but the account shared storage match that which I have opened on the main worlds for the accounts.

This will be devastating news for many. I assume Turbine is planning on a good 50% attrition with this massive cut.

I will be biting nails and holding vigil for fair Crickhollow until the 3rd.

I had always assumed I would be here until lights out, but as I reflect I can't see myself moving.
I like my house, the little group runs in the mornings, good population.
You know, Middle Earth is not a New Jersey strip mall.

I have 6 characters on just one server now so I will transfer them all to one of the new servers. Is there any possibility of item loss when we transfer our characters? What will happen to the account-bound items?

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Originally Posted by Vyvyanne

Sadly we do not see cross region transfers ever being a thing that we can offer. This is due to the original regions being set up in two different account systems, which allowed duplicate character IDs to be created. The transfer of a character to a world on which it might share an ID with another character can result in the loss of all character data. This is not a situation we want to see happen, especially to some of the oldest characters on the servers.

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:(

Thanks for the reply, nevertheless...

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Originally Posted by cdq1958

Kick, I'm pretty sure that shared storage is account based. I have 220 on my two main accounts. These had 210 during the last beta and I'm sure that they had 210 when I last did the BR copy available on login. So, I cannot see how you have more shared storage on server A than B. Now I can see that for character vaults and house storage.

I will check this when the game worlds reopen, for I have some scouts on all NA worlds. What I expect is that each would have their personal vault space at what ever level it was, but the account shared storage match that which I have opened on the main worlds for the accounts.

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Yes it is and I have say 30 slots on meneldor but if I am forced to transfer to lets say Landroval where I have a few toons and my shared is maxed there I will basically have 60/30 slots and be forced to buy more even though I am being forced to transfer. I get that I can access those items but until I drop it to under 30 or pay more I can add anything

It was more a visceral gut reaction and just hope they can throw a discount or something out there for people with tons and tons of toons

I would think that if your toon on server a had 120 vault slots.. that information would transfer with the character to server b? I'd hope! lol =)

Anxiously waiting like everyone else =)

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Originally Posted by kickman77

So there is no way to open up free kinship renames for a set amount of time? Was that not done recently? Just seems like an easier option to let all players have a free kinship rename because we are the ones being forced to move

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They did offer free kinship renames recently (beginning of last year?) as we chose to rename our kinship while they had that going. However we still had to send in a ticket.

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Originally Posted by Vyvyanne

Sadly we do not see cross region transfers ever being a thing that we can offer. This is due to the original regions being set up in two different account systems, which allowed duplicate character IDs to be created. The transfer of a character to a world on which it might share an ID with another character can result in the loss of all character data. This is not a situation we want to see happen, especially to some of the oldest characters on the servers.

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I'm sure that's an over-simplification. If not, then the solution is easy: Add an extra digit to all character IDs (a 1 for US characters, and a 2 for EU characters). Voila, no more character ID conflicts.

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Originally Posted by kickman77

Wow, so if I have 30 shared slots on server a and server b... and server a closed so I move to server b I have to purchase more shared storage. Sorry to be the person to say this but that does not seem fair to the player. We are being forced to move and I undertsand the purchase was account wide just seems a bit off maybe I am reading it wrong through my tears so if I misinterpreted it I apologize just don't seem kosher to me that because of a forced move we may have to spend money

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You may not need some of the stuff if there are duplicates and some stuff may stack. I wouldn't worry too much about that. After all you can always create another mule to store some excess stuff.

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Originally Posted by kickman77

So I have 13 available slots now, all filled on server A but I move to a server where I have to a server where I have 5 toons, I will go to 18/13 and have to pay to play 5 of my toons. Again, this just does not seem right. We are being forced to move. Doubling the amount of aslots per server is nice (so what its 42 toons per server now) but if people have 5 toons on 5 servers they will have to pay 595tp*20=11900 tp to play the toons they were able to play the day before but were forced to move? Sorry I think we should all be given free extra slots if transfering... a set number (maybe do something like half the aamount of purchased slots given for free (so if player a has purchased 10 slots the get 5 more free of charge as a good faith attempt by Turbine instead of forcing people to pay for something they all ready have))

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We don't need to move all characters to the same server but if we want to then yes, we will have to unlock more slots. I will have to delete some characters to make room if I'm forced to move from my home server to another with existing characters.

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Originally Posted by Vyvyanne

... This is due to the original regions being set up in two different account systems, which allowed duplicate character IDs to be created. The transfer of a character to a world on which it might share an ID with another character can result in the loss of all character data. This is not a situation we want to see happen, especially to some of the oldest characters on the servers.

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Thank you for this info. This is the first time I've read about the reason behind this since that big EU/US merge. The reason makes perfectly sense to me, I just don't understand why it had to be a big secret. But that's just me, I might have missed previous explanations.

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Originally Posted by Thurallor

I'm sure that's an over-simplification. If not, then the solution is easy: Add an extra digit to all character IDs (a 1 for US characters, and a 2 for EU characters). Voila, no more character ID conflicts.

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I'm pretty sure it's not that easy. Millions of characters, multiple tables with character data. If I remember correctly, everything a character did is logged. Can you imagine how much data a character created in 8 years. Back when there was my.lotro.com it took days to process all data for the EU characters when they were enabled.

Could we please have a massively-discounted store sale on character slots and new shared storage slots?

If this can be put on the planning table, I'd love to see it stay available through a lot of the transfer period.

Thanks for all the hard work the team has been putting in on this. It's clearly a huge job, and it's encouraging to see you getting it together.

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Originally Posted by Tirian-Hammerfist

A quick question about EU servers...

You've mentioned that there will be at least one roleplay server staying up, and one from each language - so that makes 3, with presumably 2 EN additional non-RP servers staying. This means that EN players (and all those in the EU that choose to go for an English language server, as they prefer it to French or German servers) that don't want to roleplay are going to be constricted to two servers?

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To be honest Tirian, this scares the hell out of me. My guess is Snowy and Evernight are going to have to take the whole of the overflow.. That's a heck of a lot of people on 2 nonrp/language servers.

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Originally Posted by Thurallor

I'm sure that's an over-simplification. If not, then the solution is easy: Add an extra digit to all character IDs (a 1 for US characters, and a 2 for EU characters). Voila, no more character ID conflicts.

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Indeed, for it isn't just duplicate character IDs, it is schema conflicts of various kinds. BR copies use the same tech. BR copies run the risk of data corruption and loss. In the test environment, especially since they wipe the DBs, that isn't a big deal. Live, on the other hand, that is a big deal.

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Originally Posted by kickman77

So there is no way to open up free kinship renames for a set amount of time? Was that not done recently? Just seems like an easier option to let all players have a free kinship rename because we are the ones being forced to move

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We do not have the ability for kins to be able to change their names developed, thus it is not something we can give away. This is a GM power only for now which is why we are willing to help out if it becomes a problem.

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Originally Posted by kickman77

Yes it is and I have say 30 slots on meneldor but if I am forced to transfer to lets say Landroval where I have a few toons and my shared is maxed there I will basically have 60/30 slots and be forced to buy more even though I am being forced to transfer. I get that I can access those items but until I drop it to under 30 or pay more I can add anything

It was more a visceral gut reaction and just hope they can throw a discount or something out there for people with tons and tons of toons

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I'm puzzled why you need to put all your toons on 1 server when you are split across multiple servers now. Is it that you really do actively play all characters on all the NA servers and are unwilling to toss a few?

I have a few toons scattered about different servers, none high level, and they'll be going to other servers than where my maxed toons will end up; if I need to make room and drop a few, I will (after stripping them of gold and other goodies).