Goodbye to LOTRO

I see BBs as the devs at the time getting so enthused with the new thing they just don't prepare for those coming late to it and faced with a big roadblock, when the rest of us were learning and progressing with those more at the cutting edge of play when new.

My "workaround" was to have an alt account hunter sufficiently advanced to pay forward to any new main account char I brought to BBs. Initially we could "pug" and learn various tricks of the trade to make them easier. But late comers just don't have the numbers doing that content to tap into. Having a dumbed down version wasn't going to help get peeps into them if every wall they face "going at their own pace" is a time for just giving up, though this one is more understandable - you need progression to progress.

Perhaps, as soon as the cap rose, players could have been given sufficient points to get to rank 5+ in engineering and a possibility to advance. Like getting an some basic Light amount in Mordor if the gear isn't providing enough for later comers. Same deal with placing a raid drop as the main ingredient of a crafting tier and killing off that tiers for the later comers. Needs thought on the long term consequences, not something we see so much evidence of, carried along in the moment and out of mind - even when reminded.

Just take out those trait points from BBs and problem solved - not really. Just means you bin that content beyond maintenance mode even. Other merry-go-arounds for SSG to have us riding - the next "new" thing. I suppose it's the same with Mounted combat, when new and without much else to do you get to grips with it or give up on it if that's your way with anything that doesn't meet expectations or is left to stagnate. Too often it must be just written off by the devs but they just fail to tell us! So long as there's something to sell us in the store: promo point and mount traits, colours and cosmetics.

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Originally Posted by DavidmeetHal

agreed totally about a skip button.

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What do the developers think? Just asking :)

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Originally Posted by DavidmeetHal

agreed totally about a skip button.

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Players always want two things: a Button that lets them skip things they don't like, and a Toggle so everyone can be happy. Neither of those things are happening for these any time soon.

MoL

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Originally Posted by MadeofLions

Players always want two things: a Button that lets them skip things they don't like, and a Toggle so everyone can be happy. Neither of those things are happening for these any time soon.

MoL

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OK, I'm out.

/sigh

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Originally Posted by Pharone

/sigh

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Pearls before swine.

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Originally Posted by Jeroen4593

Pearls before swine.

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<snorts<

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Originally Posted by istvana

<snorts<

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Incurable.

I did not read whole thread (I saw it after MoL post), but there is imo simple solution.
Maybe someone already suggested, but ask for help in chat, describe in short your attitude and decision.
I'm pretty sure someone will do that instance for you, you'll just need to enter it and wait (or go afk).
Leaving game because of that is most unusual reason I've heard so far...

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Originally Posted by MadeofLions

Players always want two things: a Button that lets them skip things they don't like, and a Toggle so everyone can be happy. Neither of those things are happening for these any time soon.

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And when did they do it anyway? I have the feeling we are wasting our time.

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Originally Posted by AegisRegnat

And when did they do it anyway? I have the feeling we are wasting our time.

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For what? They added the non-Epic Battle Story Tales versions for Helm's Deep.

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Originally Posted by OldMadeOfLions

The problem is that both of those things is a ton of work, and having someone do that work means they're not working on something else, or if they are they're piling up a lot of crunch. If it's a feature you want, then of course you'll say it's worth it, but it's really not that simple. I worked nights and weekends on the Storied Tales for Helm's Deep for half a year in addition to my normal workload, for instance, and reaction to those varied from "Why did you bother?" to "I guess it's okay for people who want it." So making alternative versions of things isn't always a home run. If there's enough interest in making the story bits of raids more accessible, it's possible to make it happen, and if they tell me to do it I'll do it... or find someone else who can. :D

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Or are you referring to the 'Shortened Account' book work made to skip Session Play? https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Upd...ts_&_Instances

How about the on-ramp they made for those to go directly into Gundabad so they don't have to do the first four chapters?

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Originally Posted by WeirdJedi

For what? They added the non-Epic Battle Story Tales versions for Helm's Deep.



Or are you referring to the 'Shortened Account' book work made to skip Session Play? https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Upd...ts_&_Instances

How about the on-ramp they made for those to go directly into Gundabad so they don't have to do the first four chapters?

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What's the point in all those though? Creating all those functions to help players keep their flow through the story - just to stop them in Gondor. I guess I just don't get the reasoning behind wanting to make players go through that one quest. They usually don't, and not only do they ignore the quest they cannot do, they don't do the many that come after it either. That there, is a content killer.

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Originally Posted by Arnenna

What's the point in all those though?

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I see it as a workload issue. I remember MadeofLions talking in a community stream how they weren't even sure if they would be able to finish Gundabad Epic during the Pandemic. I personally love Epic Battles. I thought it was an awesome idea to include them in the Epic. But I find it humorous how everyone complained about just Helm's Deep Epic Battles. Then when Story Tales came in, suddenly everyone is complaining about the Gondor ones. I really don't see them adding anything in when it is clear they are pushing towards the next expansion.

It will always be something people want here on the forums...

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Originally Posted by Arnenna

What's the point in all those though... just to stop them in Gondor. I guess I just don't get the reasoning behind wanting to make players go through that one quest.

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That's on me for not being clear, I suppose -- I'm not intent on making you play 'Retaking Pelargir' if you don't want to. It's just that making an alternative means of getting around it takes time and effort, and I promise you that I am fully, fully booked. It would be cool to add more Storied Tales - it would be weird if I was against the idea, considering the Helm's Deep ones were my idea in the first place...

MoL

The key is for SSG to come up with something that won’t insult their own creatives while allowing the most impatient or particular or disabled players to not feel road-blocked by otherwise required activities which they either can’t or really, really don’t want to do but who still wish to advance through the main storyline.

For the epics, perhaps when the quest is picked up there can be an option to “Skip to next quest. WARNING: YOU WILL RECEIVE NO EXPERIENCE OR OTHER REWARDS FOR THIS QUEST!” Players would still receive status changes and passive abilities granted by these quests such as “Characteristic: Conqueror of the Watching-stones” but no experience or reputation of any kind nor any gear, consumables, or tokens.

While not trivial, if made a universal part of the epics it should be easier than adding it or some other “skip” or “shortened” function individually to each quest that people begin complaining about. And it simply isn’t necessary to add such a feature to the quests that aren’t part of the epic lines, if a player doesn’t want to do something in one of those they can abandon it and move on to something else.

Charge a Mithril Coin each time the player chooses the SKIP option. Add a 1 Mithril Coin charge to use the Shortened Accounts on Session Plays, too! I’m all for SSG making money on convenience and time-shortening features. The 1 Mithril Coin charge will discourage players from using the skip function excessively but it will be there for players repeating content (possibly for the 20th time or more given the longevity of the game and the age of some of the content) or who find themselves faced with an otherwise required experience which doesn’t appeal to them.

It is totally understandable that the content developers push back on things like this. Besides the simple work and time involved which takes them away from the artistry and craft of creating new content, they would be introducing yet another method for players to not experience the content they and their colleagues labored to create in the past. Very frustrating, I’m sure! Probably a good idea to add anyway, though, as the game becomes larger, and longer, and the experiences “required” to advance more varied.

I will note, however, as I did in my reply to the OP, that in most cases it is possible to abandon even epic quests and use the wiki to learn where to go in order to move on to the next Book or whatever. Not currently possible in all cases, but it is in most. I have sometimes skipped the Amarthiel/Narchuil books, all of Moria, and sometimes other stuff such as the hunt for the Nazgûl through the Trollshaws and Misty Mountains; although I do enjoy the stories very much and none of the activities required for the quests annoy me enough to skip things just for that reason.

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Originally Posted by MadeofLions

That's on me for not being clear, I suppose -- I'm not intent on making you play 'Retaking Pelargir' if you don't want to. It's just that making an alternative means of getting around it takes time and effort, and I promise you that I am fully, fully booked. It would be cool to add more Storied Tales - it would be weird if I was against the idea, considering the Helm's Deep ones were my idea in the first place...

MoL

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I'd love to see some dev time carved out of the calendar for you to add more storied tales to finish out the rest of the epic battles.

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Originally Posted by MadeofLions

That's on me for not being clear, I suppose -- I'm not intent on making you play 'Retaking Pelargir' if you don't want to. It's just that making an alternative means of getting around it takes time and effort, and I promise you that I am fully, fully booked. It would be cool to add more Storied Tales - it would be weird if I was against the idea, considering the Helm's Deep ones were my idea in the first place...

MoL

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I may not agree with you blue names on things, but one thing I am very thankful for is the fact that you guys and gals actually take the time to argue with us here in the forums, and that is not being sarcastic. Thank you for communicating with us.

While I agree with the desirability of being able to skip any big battle - this is much ado about nothing. Pelargir can be soloed in 20-30 minutes with no engineering and if one really is having problems someone that knows it can join and the two people can do the solo version in 20-30 minutes.

And that is the *hard* one - the next two in Minas Tirith can be done afk.

None of the Gondor ones is the obstacle that the Rohan ones were and thank you for giving us the Rohan bypass.

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Originally Posted by Hephburz-2

It's not actually. It's no more silly than people who complain about raids. It doesn't matter that it can be solo'd, it's learning an entirely new system (which you can still end up failing) for a single quest in order to advance with the rest of the story. People who quit because of epic battles had nothing to do with disappointment (though this was probably also a factor) and everything to do with the fact that Epic battles are absolute garbage.

You also don't have any right to criticise anyone elses reason for deciding to quit because they don't like a particular system, when you yourself advocate for a similar thing.

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Well said.

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Originally Posted by Quenton_1

I'd love to see some dev time carved out of the calendar for you to add more storied tales to finish out the rest of the epic battles.

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Pelargir is the only one that has any significant risk of failure. DoMT and Hammer basically complete themselves. I think the siege towers are the only thing the NPCs don't do for you.

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Originally Posted by DavidmeetHal

agreed totally about a skip button.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbJ51AJuR7E

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Originally Posted by TesalionLortus

Imagine quitting the game you seem to like/enjoy because of 0,2 % of the game's content and one annoyance/challenge...

Just saying. It's not the end of the world and certainly it's not stupid. That you were able to skip learning the Epic Battles for Helm's Deep was only thanks to MoL's six months long additional project.

I perfectly understand solo players frustrations sometimes or time constraints irl or otherwise quickly paced times we live in. But sometimes they are these key key happenings in games and their stories that have weight to them even if they're soloable, not everything will always be 1-minute long walk in a park nor it always should be that easy and that fast 100% of the time. In most other games that offer very easy/solo modes, there will always be some mechanics/stages that might prove more difficult for some reason and take more attempts to finish, and a lot of it may depend on sensibilities of players too. That's life.

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Actually it isn't life at all.It's not even part of the story line of the Tolkien series.It's made up #### added by Devs.

I actually enjoyed the big battles but if you were not around when they were released, they are very difficult to learn and understand without help. These days, no one needs the 2 trait points you used to earn from them so soon there may not be anyone around to help people finish those story lines.

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Originally Posted by Froyo_K_Baggins

It's not a "solo instance," it's a BB and those are very different. The shortcut was added to HD because it was not possible for the vast majority of players to solo the dike.

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That's not true. The vast majority of players can certainly get past the Dike all by themselves and move on to the next BB in the epic. You may not get platinum or even gold on all side quests, and you certainly might fail one or two side quests, but I would not say that the vast majority of players were stuck at the Dike, and couldn't get past it.

As a matter of fact, I think every single character I had was able to move past the Dike without too much hurdles.

You don't have to ACE it. You just have to get PAST it.

Pelagir used to be something anyone could do just by logging in and watching LFF, because it was farmed for star merits. Perhaps the complaints switching to the Gondor cluster stem from the fact that this is no longer a thing.

For what it's worth I enjoyed starting from 0 trait points @solo, earning what I could through skill alone and returning for plats later armed with higher ranks. It is possible. The players saying they still have trouble even with trait points have a post history entailing below average game competency so the BBs are not the problem. As per usual it's you and the devs aren't here to make a game for children. I think at this point you should have realised you have lack the gauge to determine reasonable challenge and should find a kin to help you deal with your shortcomings instead of crawl through the game on your own and try to diminish everyone else's experience along the way.

If you can't do something in an MMO that everyone else has little issues with, get someone to help you. If your kin is silent, find a new kin. That goes for BBs too, I used to boost R0 players often who wanted to be more useful/learn BB mechanics for the Pela runs. Now No-one does BB's except for first timers/completionists. Which is a shame, it should be a daily (scaled) gold tracery farm or something. But SSG insists on only level cap instances being relevant.