LM Community: Boycott Improved Air-Lore

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Originally Posted by Hurin

Ah, but you see, you're being reasonable here. Stating that these are misconceptions or honest mistakes. You're not accusing Turbine of lying, or being incompetent ("do something right for once"), "crowing", or otherwise casting their actions and their motivations in a ridiculously negative light via hyperbolic and adversarial language. So. . . why would I take issue with your post? That's a perfectly reasonable post!

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A mistake is a mistake. Claiming its an honest one, doesn't make it all okay. Turbine owned up to their mistake and are going to make the skill reflect all types of damage. Could they have gone a stretch further, and made it perhaps a tad bit better without making the skill overpowered? I believe so.
A Flat percentage base for damage reflect would allow this skill to grow with a player, as I stated in one of my previous posts, but that is up to the Dev's to decide.

You keep insisting on using descriptively negative terms to demean other posters threads. This is just as bad as the posters you are protesting against.


"To keep the skill balanced, an upkeep cost was added which is lower than the power cost of re-applying the skill once every minute."

The implication of balance is to add a negative to keep the positive from overpowering the total. In the above statement, it is inferred that the upkeep cost is the negative added to balance out the positiveness of the skill upgrade. Another example of this would be the power costs of champion melee skills, they are high because champion skills have no induction, and tiny cooldowns for the most part.
For Loremasters, that the upgrade would cost less power than the old version makes this the positive upgrade of the skill, rather than the skill itself.

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Originally Posted by Harry2

You keep insisting on using descriptively negative terms to demean other posters threads. This is just as bad as the posters you are protesting against.

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I'm quoting them. They are the ones attributing the worst of motivations to Turbine through plain language. They're accusing Turbine of lying, insulting them, and otherwise engaging in nefarious acts. And they're doing so in plain language. It is not demeaning to them to accurately describe the content of their posts which they themselves embrace. It is, however, critical of them and their needlessly hostile/adversarial behavior.

So, again, my point has not been that we shouldn't give Turbine feedback or register our dismay with something we find unfortunate. But accusing them of lying, insulting us (etc.) is just downright silly. And doing so isn't conducive to actually having a constructive conversation about what should and shouldn't be changed.

But, I was on the right track when I originally promised myself that I wouldn't try to assuage the internet rage around here. It's ultimately futile, and then you'll get the nice folks who can't tell the difference between needlessly aggressive, hyperbolic behavior on the part of some, and those who merely point it out. :rolleyes:

So you guys feel free to continue asserting that you've been made victims and that you've been lied to, and insulted. I personally can't imagine going through life like that. Especially in this context. But to each their own.

I don't think the issue with the skill is to make a toggle or no (But I always accept those, as it does make it easier to manage.)

To me it's the amount of damage it does. It's rather like those poor bleed effects some weapons have, or those Damage negation/Reflect effect on some bracelets.

Honestly, if you negate 20 damage, I won't ever notice it anywhere outside of level 20
If I am doing 15 damage every 5 seconds for 15 seconds (15 x 3) That's not going to effect anything really.

I understand their thought process, take baby-steps in improving it to ensure it's not dumping a lead weight onto the balance scale of the skill, which is a smart move in my eyes.

But they are changing the wrong thing in my opinion.
I think if it's reflect was at least 100 damage (Reflecting on all damage, like they said they were going to implement later on.)
Or did a percentage, I'd feel better. 20% damage reflect or so would be nice, but some Boss mobs it could be OP (Isn't there a guy in Dol Guldur who can hit for like 3k Common damage? That could be a nasty reflect)
Or even keep the low damage and give the reflect an increase to threat. (So even if it just reflects 16 damage, it's still generating far more threat then that amount.)

Overall, I'd like to follow Turbine's own Dev-made suggestion.
"Don't suggest a solution, just explain what's wrong/why." (I know people will jump me saying "You just suggested a solution" and "We already have told them the problem" and that's cool, I'm just following their own advice.)

Well.. with the new craptastic skills plus the higher than average resists i'm just gonna boycott my lore-master.

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Originally Posted by Galahadur

Well.. with the new craptastic skills plus the higher than average resists i'm just gonna boycott my lore-master.

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Prettyyyy funny.

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Originally Posted by Reillan

I guess this all goes back to the need for an exhaustive loremaster compendium, covering every monster and what kind of damage they do and what their resists are, so that we can see when using this skill would make sense (in addition to other great benefits). But the only way to pull that off is to get some dev assistance, so that if they make a change to a monster, that change is reflected in the compendium, as otherwise we would have to go out and ID every single mob every time an update, even a silent update, was made.

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Knowledge of the Lore-master only tells you what damage a mob is weak to, so you can't ID a mob and tell what he might hit you with. You have to fight him for a while and give him a chance to use various skills on you, then go check the combat log and see what type of damage it was. Even then, it won't tell you whether it was tactical or melee, you just have to figure it out. It's really annoying to me that we can't actually build a good monster compendium.

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Originally Posted by Harry2

Turbine owned up to their mistake and are going to make the skill reflect all types of damage. Could they have gone a stretch further, and made it perhaps a tad bit better without making the skill overpowered? I believe so.

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My main character is a Warden and Defiant Challenge (you may have heard of it referred to as Disco Challenge) has something like a 140 damage reflect on any Common/Fire/Shadow damage if I'm remembering it right. That's way bigger than the reflect from this skill and you know, at level 65, I don't even really notice the reflect damage that Disco Challenge does. Sure, I notice it if I go back and fight grey-level mobs, but if I simply sneeze on a grey-level mob then even that does noticeable damage.

The reflect damage on Air-lore skill is paltry. I don't just believe that the devs could have increased it without making the skill overpowered, I'm personally certain of it.

I've gotta try it first before deciding.

I tried it..

Hmm.. sort of want my 409 silver back.

Oh well.. I made a promise to ignore most of the things that upset me in this game.. so I will try not to let this piss me off.

Honestly.. its just a small thing.

Im gonna have to go with no.

Still haven't bought and loving it.

Hey ZC, go take a look at how sweet the Reaver reflect damage is in the Moors then get back to us. Now THAT is a reflect.

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Originally Posted by Rthen

I tried it..

Hmm.. sort of want my 409 silver back.

Oh well.. I made a promise to ignore most of the things that upset me in this game.. so I will try not to let this piss me off.

Honestly.. its just a small thing.

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I tried ignoring the things that upset me in this game, didn't work for very long. A simple break may release me from the mindnumbing MMO that LOTRO has become.

I realized I can play other games that frustrate me much less and creat much more enjoyment for me.

With that said, when/if they release a new x-pac, I will definitely check it out.

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Originally Posted by Thorvaldheimdal

I realized I can play other games that frustrate me much less and creat much more enjoyment for me.

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I wish I could find some of those more than once every six months. If I could, I would not be playing LotRO. Let me know if you find some. It's too bad the devs clearly do not use usage stats, such as those mentioned by the OP. It just seems like a waste if you have skills or entire trait lines in the game (Trapper of Foes for hunter, maybe KoA for LM, for example) that virtually no one uses, when 25% seems like a reasonable target minimum. If I was a dev, and no one was using a feature I made, I'd want to know why and I'd want to do something about that.

um i trait 3 MoNF, 4 KoA... and I do better than most LM's

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Originally Posted by Silverangel

It's too bad the devs clearly do not use usage stats, such as those mentioned by the OP. It just seems like a waste if you have skills or entire trait lines in the game (Trapper of Foes for hunter, maybe KoA for LM, for example) that virtually no one uses, when 25% seems like a reasonable target minimum. If I was a dev, and no one was using a feature I made, I'd want to know why and I'd want to do something about that.

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Maybe they do use the stats. Maybe they do want to know why. Maybe they do in fact know why. But maybe they have limited resources and don't see addressing our particular pet peeves as the most effective/efficient use of their very limited time.

Basically, if Improved Air-Lore not being up to our expectations is the reason we are leaving the game, and costing Turbine money, then we already had one foot out the door anyways.

But I guess my point is that it's probably not safe to assume that they are ignorant or even apathetic when in fact it may be the case that they know exactly what the situation truly is. . . but for various reasons --whether those be technical, managerial, or work-load related-- they just aren't able to fix all the things we think they should.

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Originally Posted by Maeshani

um i trait 3 MoNF, 4 KoA... and I do better than most LM's

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I am Uruviel. I am better than most every champ out there even though I haven't played with more than 10 percent of the champs out there.

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Originally Posted by cwswim03

I am Uruviel. I am better than most every champ out there even though I haven't played with more than 10 percent of the champs out there.

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I see what you did there, and i approve. :D

From: http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=325365

About Vol.III B1 Patch 1
These release notes apply to the Bullroarer server only and are subject to change before the final version update is available on the live servers.



Loremaster
Continual Air-lore has been adjusted as follows:
No longer toggled off by stuns.
No longer toggles off when mounting.
Toggles off it your target desummons (e.g. Pets, Skirmish Soldiers).
Increased range.
Absorbs all damage types.

Thanks Devs!

Thats a great improvement to say the least! A good start for sure:)