I win you lose
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I win you lose
I agree with the OP that this is a problem in certain areas. A bigger problem for me however is the fact that I reported someone for excessive profanity and ethnic slurs, 5 minutes later that person called me out on it! The person reported should NOT be able to troll the reporter, and the violations were severe enough that they should have been out of game. We should not be so accepting of excessive vulgarities and racial/ethnic hatred. Comments like "Welcome to online gaming" make no sense to me. Why should we just accept it? (And I am talking about excessive and severe profanities and talk. Banter and humor between adults is expected and most times, welcome in games such as this)
On the subject of kids, I have a youngster that plays, she is mature for her age and knows the difference between fantasy and Real life. I understand that this game is geared towards a more mature audience, and therefore she is always sitting beside me while she is in game. Seriously? The evening news is much more harmful to her overall mental well being.. This game is just.. A Game. I have chosen to take the opportunity to use these few instances of Bad behavior to teach her what not to do. All chat is off when she is next to the computer now, I have not felt the need for this until recently. I believe that it is up to Parents to decide if and when their kids play. Maturity levels, parent participation, and a Childs view of "Game vs. Reality" all factor in and are different in each case. The Kin I belong to has many families that play and the kids are vital, contributing members of the kin, as well as a joy to be in game with.
We should not be so accepting of excessive vulgarities and racial/ethnic hatred. Comments like "Welcome to online gaming" make no sense to me. Why should we just accept it? I will continue to report these few offenders, and hope that Turbine starts taking swift and permanent action soon.
To those that keep replying to Xzim:
http://www.zoneshot.com/server/dg/pl...ken-trolls.jpg
Don't feed the trolls. Non only is one, he's woefully proud of being one, even admitting that he does it to provoke a reaction. Best thing to do- /ignore and/or negative rep him since that's what he's obviously asking for.
Because -rep is gonna make me cry =* (
Also, calling someone a troll is a violation of forum rules. You might want to brush up on those before you get an infraction.
I'm just sayin'.
Great pic, sirwillow. +repQuote:
Originally Posted by sirwillow
In the end, what really needs to be done are on the GMs side. Naturally really bad behavior should be reported, but GMs need to be consistent in enforcing stuff.
The key to dealing with Xzim has been told to us all a bunch of times already in this thread. All you have to do is add him /her to your ignore list. Then you NEVER have to see his/her posts. ;) If it works for ingame, then it will work for the out of game forums.
THIS!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Glavian
There was more than one occasion back in mid-2007 that I came to the Forums with a Squirrley-Rant about the vulgarity of what went on in GLFF/GOOC and even some of the standard Chat Channels. I can turn a blind-eye to common vulgarity. I can even filter out sex related vulgarity. However, what gets under my skin are the endless tirades of Racism, Religion/Anti-Religion banter, and the general bashing of people on their assumed Sexual Orientation. I remember on one particularly bad night I exhausted the limits of /ignore and still couldn't separate the wheat from the chaff. I was livid and simply had to vent.
Then, someone like you suggested the same sage advice. I took it to heart and my life in Middle-Earth has been all the better for it.
I was one of those people who let my daughter start playing the game when she was 10 years old, and have never had concerns about it because she had been closely supervised by me for the first three years of the game. It shocked me a little to hear her talking smack in the Moors, but eventually I decided to let it slide as long as she doesn't talk like that irl or in chat outside of the Moors. Even now, I don't have any reservations about what she may hear or say in-game. I have confidence that I raised her well enough not to do as others do...and so long as she continues to be responsible in that respect, I'm willing to give her my trust and my blessing to filter overheard chat conversations accordingly.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that it is F2P that is the problem as much as the sudden influx of people simply ensures the lowest common denominator, just like anything else in life. The more people you get together in one place, the more likely that the conversation will degrade to the more banal vernacular. That's human nature.
If you have a Rank 10 Patience, then by all means try to edumacate the Masses of what is acceptable and not acceptable in LOTRO. If you don't have a Rank 10 Patience, then turn off all the Chat Channels other than perhaps /Advice.
It's past the time of LOTRO having the most mature community. With every mature vet/founder Turbine loses, they gain two text messaging generation ex-WoW kiddies. It's all about the $ and that's all Turbine cares about.
It's already too late for LOTRO, just look at all the people here condoning immaturity and being rude in chat. It's a lost cause at this point now that the game is F2P. Maybe we shouldn't be playing online games anyway, there's still like 20 books I want to read and a Europe trip I should be saving/preparing for.
Edit: Also, even if you turn off chat, you still have to see all the stupid names the idiots come up with.
A company whose goal is to increase revenue so that employees can stay employed and the owners can keep making money! I don't... I don't know what to say....Quote:
Originally Posted by LOTRSin
I'm shocked.
Shocked.
A good company cares about making money and their reputation. Turbine clearly only cares about making money, as seen since they went F2P.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xzim
Joined LOTRO in April 2007. Turned off /ooc /trade /lff on the first day.
Kinchat and Fellowship chat turned on.
All I can say is LOTRO has the cleanest and most engaging chat around. I think you guys are full of it....or pulling my leg.
I play on Crickhollow and sometimes it's been bad. So I just turn off OOC, Advice & GLFF. Problem solved.
FYI to those discussing free speech. There's a huge difference from actually having a potty mouth where profanities fly out of your mouth spontaneously and typing those same profanities in a chat. When speaking it's entirely possible to use language that's "natural" to you. When typing you have to actually think about what you're going to say. It just doesn't come out as with the spoken word. You actually have to take time to think before you type and then press that "Enter" key before it shows up in chat. So basically what I'm trying to say is there's no reason for it. Speaking it is one thing. Typing it is something different.
I just segregated them onto their own chat tab, as well as GLFF & GLOOC when they came along. I can read them when I want to and avoid them when they're tiresome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grodo
Pre- and post-F2P I've seen GLFF, for example, range from utter trash to in-depth explanations to a new player on how to best play his class as he leveled. (I took notes when the latter occurred.)
All these chat channels are just like any group of people, there's a....er...jerks, really good people, and a whole bunch of regular joes. When the population goes up, then the number of jerks spouting off in chat also goes up, and they're quite obvious. The number of good people being helpful also goes up, and the regular joes are just invisible, having fun playing the game and not participating much in chat or yucking it up in kin chat where you don't see them.
The jerks really just want an audience to shock and upset. Not reacting eliminates their fun and most will give up or go elsewhere with their antics. Pay no attention, /ignore, or report them as you see fit. I mostly pay them no mind, just like I pay no mind to debris on the sidewalk when I take a walk. It takes time, but the jerks will go elsewhere just like the sidewalk debris will get washed away by the next good thunderstorm.
I am grateful to the veteran players who are friendly to us newcomers, and welcome us to the community. Unfortunately, despite their assurances that most of the community is happy to see us here, I can't go half an hour in the game or look at the forums without seeing people voicing opinions like yours, that we will be the downfall of Lotro.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman1039
Well, after pages of the conversation turning nasty, methinks the OP's Thread Title was precognitive.
I am also beginning to lend the OP's assertion far more credence now as well.
BTW, for those that chose to ignore public scorn when they throw civility out the window and decide instead to continue to spew forth pompousness and indecorum on every online forum, it might be sagacious to note that First Amendment Rights of the U.S. Constitution do not apply anywhere online. Contrary to popular belief, on a privately owned and run Forum (or any other Internet Service), such as Turbine's (both in-game and on the forums), you are obligated by the Terms of Service and cannot conveniently hide behind the 1st. So, give the "talking how I want about what I want is my Constitutional Right" argument a rest. I'll be right there with you irl if you choose to assert that Right irl. However, when you agree to a EULA of a Service Provider, you are subject to the rules of their Code of Conduct and their ToS. If the scorn and rejection of your fellow gamers is not penalty enough, please note that you can and will be banned from the Forum and Game for violating the ToS (even if it takes a GM or CM two to three weeks to get around to catching up on their backlog). Now you know, and knowing is half the battle...or so they say.
However, even though common courtesy and civility isn't all that common anymore, that isn't any kind of excuse to not consider practicing it once in a while. Frankly, all the passive-aggressive hate in the form of bromidically insipid, pedestrian sarcasm gets a little tired and stale after a while. If you want to prove you are as mentally and emotionally evolved as an insipidly prosaic prepubescent child, then *APPLAUSE*, job well done my friends! However, if you want to prove yourself to be a potentially valuable and worthwhile member of our community with something of valid worth to say, then perhaps you might try altering your attitude a little to practice some common courtesy once in a while. You may find you get more mileage out of the later than the former approach...although granted, it does require a little more than a 6 word retort that invokes a family member.
Hey, I don't care if someone is F2P, Premium or VIP, how many Forum Posts or Rep they might have (or lack thereof) so long as they show a modicum of consideration for others. However, I personally reserve the right to discriminate against anyone who doesn't and chooses to revel in their puerile behavior instead.
So, please take a wee bit more care lest you invoke yet another Wall O' Text from yours' truly. ;)
IBTL
Quote:
Originally Posted by tevans0320
......Unless you're drunk.
You won't believe how many times I've re-read posts I've made after a lovely night of vodka and television only to think to myself..... "W.T.F. was I thinkin? I don't even make sense to myself!" ...or..."That wasn't supposed to be posted like that or sound that way."
I love my liquor.
I love my LoTRO.
Combine the 2 and I love the fun.
I agree to a point. One thing I disagree with is that the "Regular Joes" are invisible. Often, they are not invisible so much as they just blend in. They tend to follow whatever the crowd is doing. If the crowd is mature and polite, they will be as well. If there are people being rude, profane, etc., they will be as well. That is the problem we are seeing, the people coming are not all bad - though probably not as mature (on average) as the people who have been playing. The problem is the followers, who tend to emulate the rest of the crowd, are behaving badly because other people are doing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosdracir
That tends to degrade the entire community. That is why it is not enough to ignore the bad apples. We have to do something to stop the bad behavior before things get worse.
I love my liquor and my LOTRO too. One of my Kinships calls bio-breaks "mixer-breaks" instead. (And as a disclaimer, in all fairness, my previous tirade in this thread was a drunken rant after a long night of debauchery.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Areayl
HOWEVER, that being said, although an occasional slip of the tongue or a momentary lapse of judgment may be easily excusable under such conditions, there comes a great onus upon the imbiber to observe the obligatory warning label on their bottle that clearly says "Drink Responsibly!"
I don't think the OP was so upset by incidental occurrences of impropriety as much as the constant indecency that some happen to show.
I would suspect that the gravest concern, both for members of the LOTRO Community, as well as Turbine itself, is that "Like begets like", and if not promptly dealt with via the stigma of public disapproval, admonishment, and official censure from a GM/CM, then it is far more likely to become the norm, rather than the exception.
Even though LOTRO carries the ESRB Rating of "T" for "Teen" (with the standard disclaimer that "Online Interactions are not rated by the ESRB"), Turbine wants LOTRO to continue to be as "Family Friendly" as possible and really doesn't want to hear complaints from angry parents or hear about some Southern Baptist Church calling for a boycott of LOTRO and bringing some unwanted negative publicity upon them. That's why they put the legal clauses into the CoC/ToS that allow them to enforce behavior in-game and bring the Ban-Hammer down on those who chose not to follow the rules.
In LOTRO especially, feel free to follow the Trinity of Golden Rules of The Shire:
Eat
Drink
Be Merry
However, do such things responsibly. If one makes a slip or show some bad judgment, they should own up to their faux pas and humbly apologize. Trying to justify their impropriety only goes to prove their lack of remorse and further reinforces their worthiness of being scorned/banned rather than provide a valid excuse for their ill-mannerisms and misbehavior.
Even in real life it doesn't apply to most cases like the people think. Yes you can say whatever you like in my house but I have the right to have you removed as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by TsarithArcher
Turbine can kick players off their servers for whatever reason they want. Not that they will. As for the nasty folk...you cannot ignore them since for that to work everyone has to ignore them and that won't happen and there are not GM watching chat 24/7 to moderate them. So you have to report them or they will take over.
I'm seeing it in all MMO's...
This is just my opinion but I think we are seeing a wave poorly brought up kids turning into there teens going nuts on our chats. Sometimes what I hear on Ventrilo or in chat is borderline hate speech and criminal.
You see today everyone is telling everyone to be free and open and relax and not to judge and "weeee rainbows....."
Well we are paying for it now.
/opinion off
Thank you.
I haven't noticed it anymore than usual. At least on Brandywine. GLFF has always been this bad there. People just don't care I guess. Bothers me a tiny bit more in this game than it would in any other MMO, but I can't really talk against them, I say more swears than regular words when I talk. Course, so do all my co-workers.
I tend to agree. IMHO, it is caused by a lack of self discipline. I am afraid that the F2P crowd has a lot of these teens (but by no means am I suggesting that all F2P players are like that). As a result, we are feeling the effects in LOTRO more than ever before.Quote:
Originally Posted by xcopydave
As aside, I realized I was old the day I heard myself say "kids these days".
Well said T-Archer. I agree, RL Free-speech laws have little bearing on how a private company decides to operate its public chat. You are as free as they decide you can be.
I think what most people would like to see is Turbine make some examples of people. It is too bad their mantra is "We will not discuss disciplinary actions etc.", I would quite enjoy seeing someone get their come-uppence.
Certainly, and a good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradd
Yup. For me, /report is the only method I'm willing to use, and only for the bad cases - repeated obscenities, bigoted slurs, or harassment. I think reacting in public chat feeds the worst egos, and unless I know the player and think that a private admonishment would be effective, I'm going to let the GMs handle it. I think they are overburdened right now, and I'm not expecting Turbine to relieve that with new hires. I do think it will die down over time between a combination of GM actions and jerks getting bored with the game and leaving.Quote:
That tends to degrade the entire community. That is why it is not enough to ignore the bad apples. We have to do something to stop the bad behavior before things get worse.