The Road to Mordor: Could Lord of the Rings Online end in 2014?

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Originally Posted by Laweh

This engine has about had it and looks dated. Not putting down the artists, some really beautiful areas in game, its just the mechanics of getting about thru glitches, hiccups, freezing and lag that ruins the experience.

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Sorry but i disagree, it does look dated when compared to single player games, but compared to other mmo's it looks far better than most of them, WoW, TOR and Warhammer look cartoonish and childish when compared to this game to name three.

Granted there are issues on the mechanics side that need updating and addressing, but the looks of the engine have never really been the issue.

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Originally Posted by Lohi

Most games don't advertise much, except those intending to make back some dev costs in the first two weeks (ie, idiotic FPS games on consoles). MMOs do not advertise on general media except on very rare occasions. I think I saw 3 Rift copmmercials, but only before it went live, I've seen 2 WoW commercials, and lots of Magic 101, but no others.

Now in game mags it's different. Note however that the LotRO community is not your typical gamer community either, they don't keep up on the trade rags or visit MMO sites.

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Runsecape did a run of commercials when they relaunched, but yeah games don't generally advertise unless they're new.

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Originally Posted by Ragekiss

And it is pretty telling that Turbine found the money to advertise in movie theatres now for it's new game Infinite Crisis.

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Turbine didn't find any money for advertising of Infinite Crisis, Warner Brothers did. WB gave them a chunk of cash to develop IC, which gives them some moeny for advertising, whereas WB won't just hand out cash to games that aren't new so Turbine has to find advertising money for lotro from it's earnings.

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Originally Posted by NukeTheLag

I don't know why everyone keeps talking about the Tolkien estate. The Tolkien estate sold the right 35 years ago. Saul Zaentz Co. is the relevant entity. There is an option to renew which means that without need of any further negotiation there is a fixed trigger WB can pull by paying specified consideration for a 3 year extension on the license. The option must also be exercised by a certain deadline or the option expires. This has nothing to do with who has the best IP lawyers or whatever. In other words, the terms were already negotiated when the option was finalized.

The closer we get to 2014, the greater the likelihood that WB would just pull the trigger if everything was hunky-dory. Axiomatic to this is that the longer we go without hearing that WB has pulled the trigger, this gives reason to believe that they won't renew the option. This has nothing to do with saneness or calm and everything to do with understanding how an option works.

It is possible that instead of just pulling the trigger, WB could try to renegotiate for a longer/shorter renewal, which would allow SZC to alter the terms as well. At that point, the quality of WB's lawyers would matter I suppose, but if that sort of thing is coming into play then it's because WB is choosing to do something other than simply exercise its option.

If so, it could be that WB wants a longer renewal term because their projections for the game's future make it worth their while to pay even more for say a 5 year renewal. If you believe that, I have bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. Quite clearly, if WB doesn't want to just exercise the option it is because they want to see if they can pay less to renew for some period less than 3 years.

So the longer this goes without hearing something definitive, it does become evidence that the long-term health of the game is in question.

(Slight revision: It could be that the terms of the option are contingent on, e.g. LOTRO meeting certain revenue goals, but that doesn't change the analysis. Now that I think about it, the terms could depend on a having certain subscription numbers as measured by the number of daily logins. Hmmm.....)

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True,but there's also another way it could have gone. Some of these contracts work by having a fixed term, say 10 years, with an opt out period at say 8yrs, if they don't opt out it carries on for the full 10yrs etc. It's more likely your version as that's the more standard approach, but we can't know for sure without looking at the actual contract.

I would honestly prefer LOTRO to end ASAP. The game is getting worse and worse with every day. This game is full of lags, bugs and really is full of c&&p. After being absent for almost a year i logged in on this friday evening just to have a look at how things are going. When RoI was released there were 1.2k people on globallff, now only 250. In my kinship I was the only one online. I checked some other raiding kinship and everywhere there were 1-3 people online only.

The game itself was laggin like HELL. Warsteed is completly unusable even after almost a year after RoR release. FPS meter shows me that a have 60-80 FPS, but the game is so freakin unresponsible and the picture is so choppy that it is barely playable at all.

Id prefer this game to be remembered as a perfect MMO it once was, not this horse hobbit presents bull&&&&. Watching this game right now is like watching an old singer who was once great, but who has lost his voice, suffer from alkoholism, but just dont get the point that its time to go. He makes an idiot out of himself by desperatly trying to get on a stage or a tv atleast one more time.

It is time to go.

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Originally Posted by Chupakabara

I would honestly prefer LOTRO to end ASAP.

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Why do you want it to end for everyone and not just for you? It can end for just you at any time.

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Originally Posted by Kongas

Are they run by an avaricious and ruthless multi-national like WB? I hope the optimists are right but I don't want to play a lotro languishing in a backwater offering outdated gameplay through outdated game engines. I want it to be as good as the competition and deliver value for money.

The reason I think Elder Scrolls represents a bigger threat is that it is a long-established and popular game world AND crucially (unlike say Neverwinter) it is being delivered by the people who have made this world for the last 20 years. It isn't going to be a cynical cash-grab like NW. Maybe they will screw up and it'll be &&&& but MMO gameplay is moving on and IMHO in some aspects, leaving LOTRO behind. Even NW does a lot of stuff better.

I bet I'm not alone in thinking that the WB/Turbine linkup has led to a downward spiral of less quality and quantity of product alongside ever rising prices with the priority on Store-friendly game mechanics and features.

I guess I only play LOTRO now, partially out of habit and partially because of time and money invested. But the game-world is a big part of it. The Elder Scrolls offers another deep game-world I've spent many years playing in. Currently the LOTRO game plan seems to be stripping it down to being an online single player game aimed at monetising casual FTP. Maybe that is working.

I guess what some of us are saying really is not that LOTRO will die but the LOTRO that we originally started playing will, if it hasn't already. For me if Helm's Deep doesn't offer me skirmishes, instance clusters and raids at prices I don't think are just cynically taking the piss I do expect the lure of a promising Elder Scrolls will prove tempting. And I do expect it'll be a better quality game that will appeal to a similar customer base as the original lotro.

Sadly I think WB have already written off players like me. They don't want to spend the resources on group content and they don't count on us as a revenue stream. What they want is a churn of customers who sign up to FTP who can be profitably milked as they race to cap.

I do really hope I'm too pessimistic. I'd love to see LOTRO return to its glory days with a well-designed, value for money Helms Deep that is a lot, lot more than an over-priced quest pack crippled by massive ill-thought out and untested game mechanic changes.

Given the recent quality track record and given what we have been told and given what is conspicuously not being said I'm not holding my breath.

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I have the exact same outlook. I feel like LOTRO is catering to the casual player base because it's what is popular. THey would lose too much in my opinion if they gave the older players anything worthwhile. We are simply the Woody to Andy and the new players are the massivly available Buzz Lightyears where if you push a button they give you money. hahah

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Originally Posted by ottow

I have the exact same outlook. I feel like LOTRO is catering to the casual player base because it's what is popular. THey would lose too much in my opinion if they gave the older players anything worthwhile. We are simply the Woody to Andy and the new players are the massivly available Buzz Lightyears where if you push a button they give you money. hahah

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I can't argue with that.

Some apt Mark Twain Quotes (as requested)

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Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.

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Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

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Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear.

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The lack of money is the root of all evil.

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Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

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IBTL
/Cheers

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Originally Posted by Chupakabara

I would honestly prefer LOTRO to end ASAP. The game is getting worse and worse with every day. This game is full of lags, bugs and really is full of c&&p. After being absent for almost a year i logged in on this friday evening just to have a look at how things are going. When RoI was released there were 1.2k people on globallff, now only 250. In my kinship I was the only one online. I checked some other raiding kinship and everywhere there were 1-3 people online only.

The game itself was laggin like HELL. Warsteed is completly unusable even after almost a year after RoR release. FPS meter shows me that a have 60-80 FPS, but the game is so freakin unresponsible and the picture is so choppy that it is barely playable at all.

Id prefer this game to be remembered as a perfect MMO it once was, not this horse hobbit presents bull&&&&. Watching this game right now is like watching an old singer who was once great, but who has lost his voice, suffer from alkoholism, but just dont get the point that its time to go. He makes an idiot out of himself by desperatly trying to get on a stage or a tv atleast one more time.

It is time to go.

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Then why do you stay? if it is as bad as you say cancel your sub if you have one, uninstall the game and remember it as it used to be.

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Originally Posted by Chupakabara

I would honestly prefer LOTRO to end ASAP. The game is getting worse and worse with every day. This game is full of lags, bugs and really is full of c&&p. After being absent for almost a year i logged in on this friday evening just to have a look at how things are going. When RoI was released there were 1.2k people on globallff, now only 250. In my kinship I was the only one online. I checked some other raiding kinship and everywhere there were 1-3 people online only.

The game itself was laggin like HELL. Warsteed is completly unusable even after almost a year after RoR release. FPS meter shows me that a have 60-80 FPS, but the game is so freakin unresponsible and the picture is so choppy that it is barely playable at all.

Id prefer this game to be remembered as a perfect MMO it once was, not this horse hobbit presents bull&&&&. Watching this game right now is like watching an old singer who was once great, but who has lost his voice, suffer from alkoholism, but just dont get the point that its time to go. He makes an idiot out of himself by desperatly trying to get on a stage or a tv atleast one more time.

It is time to go.

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Sadly, I must agree with that.
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1) They even don´t care about their customers getting to game.
2) Forums are still bad.
3) Instead of Lotteries (where you were able to win something USEFUL) we have "Hobbit Presents" with just junk.
4) The new QP did not bring some group-content (Warbands are NOT group content).

This makes me also think that the game will end 2014. Maybe they registered shadowsofmorder.com just because they want customers to think that the game will continue. Look at RoR instance cluster. Look at RoR itself. Look at Wildermore.
They are just going "deliver as little as possible for as much as possible" these days.

Every game could end in 2014. Even World Of Warcraft.
But as for LOTRO i highly doubt it will.

Drink some ice tea people. Play some guitar. You are losing your time with all this endless talk.
Unless you want to pull out conclusions from people's clueless opinions (or with a slight clue of what's going on). As i read on the other closed thread, people still think they know the absolute truth. But they're still full of that "i know what's going on" arrogance. :)

Cheers.

@Post above me:

I almost laughed with your post.

So "the game will end at 2014" because
a) Forums are bad (although we're expecting a fix this month)
b) We got Hobbit Presents instead of Lotteries.

Lol. Let me explain why those are the 2 most stupid points in your post:
A) A Game's viability has little to do with what its forums' state is. Recently they closed down another MOBA game called "Rise Of Immortals".
Go check their forums.
http://www.battleforgraxia.com/
Working fine. Do i have to prove further the irrelevancy between a game and its forums?

B) Lotteries as far as i understood this require constant care by Sapience and i guess a few other people that pick the rewards? Maybe not. But even if it's only Sapience's work, the guy must be cutting time of his other work just to put out those Lotteries.
Now let me explain this.

Back when we had lotteries, it was only 2 times a week. And this at best.
Also i can't see how one can argue that the rewards in the Lotteries were "So much better". The best thing i've seen there was "A Tarnished Crest of Celebrimbor". Other than that we got Marks, Silver (wow! Silver!!!), Fireworks, Food and once in a while some weapon or armour piece.

Now we have daily rewards, and they include all of the above (except crests) plus STAT TOMES, MIthril Coins, Remembrance Crystals, MUCH more gold, and Relics, Universal Toolkits, XP Boosts and so on.
You also have a chance for 85 Symbols (1st and 2nd age) if you're VIP.

So the rewards are much better.

There's also another thing we have to take into account. And that's the worktime Sapience spent for the lotteries. When he was busy we wouldn't have any lotteries even for weeks. With the Hobbit Presents you don't have to care if Sapience is busy, cause some other people worked and implemented rewards in-game.
I really can't understand all this unjustified whining.

As far as the other 2 points :

1) They even don´t care about their customers getting to game.
2) The new QP did not bring some group-content (Warbands are NOT group content).

1) Maybe that's what you get from all this experience. I get a different feeling. The chance that your opinion is distorted from the actual truth is very high though (as my previous points prove - at least for me).
2) The new QP has some group content and that IS Warbands. Unless you're a pr0 l33t player that can solo Shaguk/Rottenheart/Conog which is fine. Still not instanced content but it's group content in my book.

Well if Turbine is planning on shutting down, then it is highly doubtful they would do anything as dramatic as totally redoing the skills trait trees and classes. As such changes require a ton of fixes, patches and tweeking. Anyone who was around in the early days and have dealt with the major changes Turbine has made in the past can attest to how much of a pain in can be, followed by hotfixs and patches regularly for awhile. Most likely they would just continue to put out the most basic of updates with the exception of helm's deep. With helm's deep being the last attempt at a cash grab before the game shuts down, and while it would most likely be much more than a update, it is doubtful they would do anything other than build the instances and lands and not spend the extra time on major class , trait changes other than raising the lv cap to 95. As it is they will have the regular growing pains associated with skills and such associated with a cap increase.

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Originally Posted by Vincent_Price

Every game could end in 2014. Even World Of Warcraft.
But as for LOTRO i highly doubt it will.

Drink some ice tea people. Play some guitar. You are losing your time with all this endless talk.
Unless you want to pull out conclusions from people's clueless opinions (or with a slight clue of what's going on). As i read on the other closed thread, people still think they know the absolute truth. But they're still full of that "i know what's going on" arrogance. :)

Cheers.

@Post above me:

I almost laughed with your post.

So "the game will end at 2014" because
a) Forums are bad (although we're expecting a fix this month)
b) We got Hobbit Presents instead of Lotteries.

Lol. Let me explain why those are the 2 most stupid points in your post:
A) A Game's viability has little to do with what its forums' state is. Recently they closed down another MOBA game called "Rise Of Immortals".
Go check their forums.
http://www.battleforgraxia.com/
Working fine. Do i have to prove further the irrelevancy between a game and its forums?

B) Lotteries as far as i understood this require constant care by Sapience and i guess a few other people that pick the rewards? Maybe not. But even if it's only Sapience's work, the guy must be cutting time of his other work just to put out those Lotteries.
Now let me explain this.

Back when we had lotteries, it was only 2 times a week. And this at best.
Also i can't see how one can argue that the rewards in the Lotteries were "So much better". The best thing i've seen there was "A Tarnished Crest of Celebrimbor". Other than that we got Marks, Silver (wow! Silver!!!), Fireworks, Food and once in a while some weapon or armour piece.

Now we have daily rewards, and they include all of the above (except crests) plus STAT TOMES, MIthril Coins, Remembrance Crystals, MUCH more gold, and Relics, Universal Toolkits, XP Boosts and so on.
You also have a chance for 85 Symbols (1st and 2nd age) if you're VIP.

So the rewards are much better.

There's also another thing we have to take into account. And that's the worktime Sapience spent for the lotteries. When he was busy we wouldn't have any lotteries even for weeks. With the Hobbit Presents you don't have to care if Sapience is busy, cause some other people worked and implemented rewards in-game.
I really can't understand all this unjustified whining.

As far as the other 2 points :

1) They even don´t care about their customers getting to game.
2) The new QP did not bring some group-content (Warbands are NOT group content).

1) Maybe that's what you get from all this experience. I get a different feeling. The chance that your opinion is distorted from the actual truth is very high though (as my previous points prove - at least for me).
2) The new QP has some group content and that IS Warbands. Unless you're a pr0 l33t player that can solo Shaguk/Rottenheart/Conog which is fine. Still not instanced content but it's group content in my book.

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You forgot to mention that, as clearly stated by Sapience, Hobbit Presents are NOT a replacement for the lottery and we will have BRAND NEW LOTTERY sometime this month (fingers crossed something doesn't go wrong to delay it) when the new community site goes live.

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Originally Posted by Community_Name

Sadly, I must agree with that.
+
1) They even don´t care about their customers getting to game.
2) Forums are still bad.
3) Instead of Lotteries (where you were able to win something USEFUL) we have "Hobbit Presents" with just junk.
4) The new QP did not bring some group-content (Warbands are NOT group content).

This makes me also think that the game will end 2014. Maybe they registered shadowsofmorder.com just because they want customers to think that the game will continue. Look at RoR instance cluster. Look at RoR itself. Look at Wildermore.
They are just going "deliver as little as possible for as much as possible" these days.

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1. I can't comment on that one, i'm not a mind reader.
2. New forums are being written at the moment, DDO got theirs last month, ours are due this month.
3. Hobbit presents are NOT instead of lotteries, Sapience has clearly stated that when we get the new community website a new lottery system will be started.
4. Haven't looked at the new QP, but going by the Rohan warbands then yes some of them are "meant" to be group content, it's just that by now people are min/max'ing till they're blue in the face and can defeat them solo, they do need to make this kind of content actually hard enough to need groups i agree.

I'm fairly confident that the game will not end in 2014, WB will extend regardless of plans with LOTRO (because they will want the license so they can make other games) and LOTRO will continue to run until it dies, it might run for a couple of years in maintenance mode, but it won't close until it stops making money.

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Originally Posted by Edrogar

1. I can't comment on that one, i'm not a mind reader.
2. New forums are being written at the moment, DDO got theirs last month, ours are due this month.
3. Hobbit presents are NOT instead of lotteries, Sapience has clearly stated that when we get the new community website a new lottery system will be started.
4. Haven't looked at the new QP, but going by the Rohan warbands then yes some of them are "meant" to be group content, it's just that by now people are min/max'ing till they're blue in the face and can defeat them solo, they do need to make this kind of content actually hard enough to need groups i agree.

I'm fairly confident that the game will not end in 2014, WB will extend regardless of plans with LOTRO (because they will want the license so they can make other games) and LOTRO will continue to run until it dies, it might run for a couple of years in maintenance mode, but it won't close until it stops making money.

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agree with most, but if i compare wildermore with great river i see great river at leist still had some instances, whereas wildermore has none, only some tough warbands, which is not the same to me, (expecially with the cooldown you have on them, no running them more than once a day, unless you play the whole day)

In another thread sapience confirmed last night that the game won't end by 2014, so i guess that should also close the discussion on the subject here on the forums...

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Originally Posted by Flixxer

agree with most, but if i compare wildermore with great river i see great river at leist still had some instances, whereas wildermore has none, only some tough warbands, which is not the same to me, (expecially with the cooldown you have on them, no running them more than once a day, unless you play the whole day)

In another thread sapience confirmed last night that the game won't end by 2014, so i guess that should also close the discussion on the subject here on the forums...

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Can you provide a link to that post? There are no posts by Sapience for 6/10 in the dev tracker.

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Originally Posted by Nickysmom

Can you provide a link to that post? There are no posts by Sapience for 6/10 in the dev tracker.

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http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...t=#post6818342

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Originally Posted by Sapience

Did you know people left the LOTRO team the day after the game launhced in 2007? Did you know that since WB acquired us we've grown dramatically in terms of number of employees?

I think everyone just needs to go brush up on their Twain quotes and have a cup of tea.

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People leaving the development team immediately after the game's initial launch is standard buisness practice. The layoffs within the last year were noticable because they included employees not expressly brought on for their work with the Rohan expansion, including such notables as +Clover and +Graalx2

Can you tell us if the 'we' in 'we've grown dramatically in terms of number of employees' refers strictly to Turbine as a whole, or the LotrO team specifically? Certainly Turbine has brought on people to deal with Infinite Crisis's upcoming launch.

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...08#post6818208

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Originally Posted by Sapience

This topic has come up about every 3-6 months since launch. As we've recently celebrated our 6th anniversary, are about to launch our 5th expansion, and have plans for quite some time to come, I would direct everyone to read a little Mark Twain.

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I'll point out 'Plans' are no guarantees of anything.
And in the spirit of Mark Twain quotes:
Often the surest way to convey misinformation is to tell the strict truth.
- Following the Equator

http://www.twainquotes.com/Truth.html

http://www.twainquotes.com/Honesty.html

"In another thread sapience confirmed last night that the game won't end by 2014, so i guess that should also close the discussion on the subject here on the forums..."

"Can you provide a link to that post? There are no posts by Sapience for 6/10 in the dev tracker." Nickysmom


" http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...t=#post6818342 " Crell_1

"Did you know people left the LOTRO team the day after the game launhced in 2007? Did you know that since WB acquired us we've grown dramatically in terms of number of employees?

I think everyone just needs to go brush up on their Twain quotes and have a cup of tea." Sapience

Please show me any place in that statement that says anything about the game going past 2014.

My question is how many of those new employes went to marketing? Or have anything to do with game design or updates.
"We hired more employes............ in custodial and kitchen staff". Blanket statements tend to be for CYOA.

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Originally Posted by manstan

Please show me any place in that statement that says anything about the game going past 2014.

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I don't see how those posts show anything about the game necessarily continuing past 2014, but those are the only relevant posts by Sapience not in the dev-tracker for the period.

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Originally Posted by manstan

"We hired more employes............ in custodial and kitchen staff". Blanket statements tend to be for CYOA.

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We don't have custodial or Kitchen staff. Sorry to disappoint.

Years of consumerism has jaded me. You may not have custodial or kitchen staff, but I bet you have a marketing department that's bigger then the LOTRO development department. A lot can be read in to open ended comments. And what is not said speaks volumes. Just because turbine has hired more people is no reason to believe any of them are directly involved with the development of LOTRO. And I was by no means disappointed ;)

Laundry soap with "All new vivid colors" in the ink on the box. I've tap danced with marketing speak for too long, I take it all with a big grain of salt.

The question is no more answered now then it was when first asked. I didn't expect it to be. No I honestly don't expect LOTRO to go belly up next year. I expect Turbine to milk it for every dime they can, so we can expect it around for quite some time.

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Originally Posted by manstan

You may not have custodial or kitchen staff, but I bet you have a marketing department that's bigger then the LOTRO development department.

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Based on my past years' experience with Turbine, I bet they don't.

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Originally Posted by Roberto_the_First

Based on my past years' experience with Turbine, I bet they don't.

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Oh? I thought it was one mesh monkey, one crayola monkey, one code junky, and 5 marketing execs telling them to hurry up lol ;)

So long as the game continues to make money it'll stick around. The fact that new content is now coming out on a regular basis is indicative to the fact that the game is indeed generating enough money for Turbine and WB. So long as new content keeps coming out you can bet that the game will still be around. ;)