Goodbye to LOTRO

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Originally Posted by MadeofLions

That's on me for not being clear, I suppose -- I'm not intent on making you play 'Retaking Pelargir' if you don't want to. It's just that making an alternative means of getting around it takes time and effort, and I promise you that I am fully, fully booked. It would be cool to add more Storied Tales - it would be weird if I was against the idea, considering the Helm's Deep ones were my idea in the first place...

MoL

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Thanks for the prompt response. Misunderstanding on my part then. I'm fine with Epic Battles, and do them all when I come across them, even deeping wall, which is the only one that presents any barrier IMO. Retaking Pelargir is probably the easiest of the lot, but I get the frustration of the OP here. I imagine RP is a bit more of a headache if a player hits it with no EB experience. Not something I'd leave the game over if I ever came across it though. I'd sit it out until the storied tale came along, or overleveling it made it doable even with downscaling.

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Originally Posted by Arnenna

Retaking Pelargir is probably the easiest of the lot, but I get the frustration of the OP here. I imagine RP is a bit more of a headache if a player hits it with no EB experience.

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That's why the tutorial should be at least multiplied to be found at each EB bestowal location or hooked up under the UI panel. And since EB's are no longer relevant to run/grind and long forgotten, some extra trait points for the start would be neat to help folks have a better chance at solo EBs, which can be easily achieved through some hidden deed/simple quest/upon tutorial completion.

I wish MoL found a moment to implement these little, simple, helpful tweaks, or did them at the start to begin with when storied tales were released. It's all great and appreciated if the devs spend time to introduce something new, but sometimes it needs to be done with foresight. MoL is booked for now, maybe it'll be a year or two or three, before he is able to spend 6 months creating the rest of these. Meanwhile, his chosen name for these taken into account, players ARE going to run across that roadblock because they ARE going to ignore these Helm's Deep epic battles initially along with their tutorial (If I played Helm's Deep today for the first time - I would too. Since "storied tales" may seem to imply they're somewhat superior over epic battles for storyline feeling and the article on the wiki page may leave one with that impression too - as if epic battles didn't have storied content or dialogues in them but that's not true, they're very good for the story feeling too, so it's highly subjective which one is preferable for conveying the story)

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Originally Posted by Neinda

I actually enjoyed the big battles but if you were not around when they were released, they are very difficult to learn and understand without help. These days, no one needs the 2 trait points you used to earn from them so soon there may not be anyone around to help people finish those story lines.

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Those class trait points are no longer granted by earning 100/200 promotion points, all class trait points are now tied to simple level-ups. However, the Epic Battle UI still references those class trait points.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/...rror.jpeg?dl=0

In addition to that, there is a bug in Defense of Minas Tirith which was reported many years ago and has never been addressed: If grappling hooks are dismantled, it can cause the script which controls that EB to fail to advance, requiring players to abandon the instance. This bug only affects Defense of Minas Tirith.

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Originally Posted by MadeofLions

That's on me for not being clear, I suppose -- I'm not intent on making you play 'Retaking Pelargir' if you don't want to. It's just that making an alternative means of getting around it takes time and effort, and I promise you that I am fully, fully booked. It would be cool to add more Storied Tales - it would be weird if I was against the idea, considering the Helm's Deep ones were my idea in the first place...

MoL

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That makes sense honestly. We can't expect SSG to spend tons of time working on things like this if we also expect them to get us out new content and fix bugs on a regular basis.

Thanks for the further explanation.

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Originally Posted by TesalionLortus

That's why the tutorial should be at least multiplied to be found at each EB bestowal location or hooked up under the UI panel. And since EB's are no longer relevant to run/grind and long forgotten, some extra trait points for the start would be neat to help folks have a better chance at solo EBs, which can be easily achieved through some hidden deed/simple quest/upon tutorial completion.

I wish MoL found a moment to implement these little, simple, helpful tweaks, or did them at the start to begin with when storied tales were released. It's all great and appreciated if the devs spend time to introduce something new, but sometimes it needs to be done with foresight. MoL is booked for now, maybe it'll be a year or two or three, before he is able to spend 6 months creating the rest of these. Meanwhile, his chosen name for these taken into account, players ARE going to run across that roadblock because they ARE going to ignore these Helm's Deep epic battles initially along with their tutorial (If I played Helm's Deep today for the first time - I would too. Since "storied tales" may seem to imply they're somewhat superior over epic battles for storyline feeling and the article on the wiki page may leave one with that impression too - as if epic battles didn't have storied content or dialogues in them but that's not true, they're very good for the story feeling too, so it's highly subjective which one is preferable for conveying the story)

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In my experience, the real roadblock to getting through the full battles and arriving at a place for earning the points, is Deeping Wall. Helm's #### is easy enough, as a new player can ignore the side objectives and just protect the bridge to get through it. Deeping Wall, will fail if a player doesn't keep up with stuff though, not necessarily the side objectives, but the whole wall needs to be kept in check. The banners perish quickly, as do the NPCs, when there is one lonely player with no points trying to keep on top of it. That said, if they get through it, then its easy street once the Caves are open.

How I get through it on new characters is to run Helm's #### once to the end, to get it completed, then I just keep going in there and concentrate on one side, until I can plat it. Points in the bag, even if the main battle fails, then move onto another side and rinse and repeat. That will usually give enough points to at least get to the end of Deeping Wall, then a player need never go in there again, but instead top up in the caves and deeping combe (which is probably the best place to earn the side points), until they have enough to take on RP.

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Originally Posted by Arnenna

In my experience, the real roadblock to getting through the full battles and arriving at a place for earning the points, is Deeping Wall. Helm's #### is easy enough, as a new player can ignore the side objectives and just protect the bridge to get through it. Deeping Wall, will fail if a player doesn't keep up with stuff though, not necessarily the side objectives, but the whole wall needs to be kept in check. The banners perish quickly, as do the NPCs, when there is one lonely player with no points trying to keep on top of it. That said, if they get through it, then its easy street once the Caves are open.

How I get through it on new characters is to run Helm's #### once to the end, to get it completed, then I just keep going in there and concentrate on one side, until I can plat it. Points in the bag, even if the main battle fails, then move onto another side and rinse and repeat. That will usually give enough points to at least get to the end of Deeping Wall, then a player need never go in there again, but instead top up in the caves and deeping combe (which is probably the best place to earn the side points), until they have enough to take on RP.

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Well, yes, but now with "storied tales" there is nothing that encourages them to even try them out and earn 1 or 2 beginner points, they hit that roadblock at Pel and not even a tutorial experience in sight

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Originally Posted by Arnenna

In my experience, the real roadblock to getting through the full battles and arriving at a place for earning the points, is Deeping Wall. Helm's #### is easy enough, as a new player can ignore the side objectives and just protect the bridge to get through it. Deeping Wall, will fail if a player doesn't keep up with stuff though, not necessarily the side objectives, but the whole wall needs to be kept in check. The banners perish quickly, as do the NPCs, when there is one lonely player with no points trying to keep on top of it. That said, if they get through it, then its easy street once the Caves are open.

How I get through it on new characters is to run Helm's #### once to the end, to get it completed, then I just keep going in there and concentrate on one side, until I can plat it. Points in the bag, even if the main battle fails, then move onto another side and rinse and repeat. That will usually give enough points to at least get to the end of Deeping Wall, then a player need never go in there again, but instead top up in the caves and deeping combe (which is probably the best place to earn the side points), until they have enough to take on RP.

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So repeat battle 1 to be able to finish battle 2, and that here is the problem. This is the epic story...I just want to play through it, not be stuck. And it doesn't help at all if I can't figure out the strategy, get the ballistas pointed correctly, or even am aware that this is the way I need to proceed. I always fail the last stage in Pelagir even with my main who has 100+ promotion points. I like Pelagir, I wish I could solo it, but I can't. MT can be afk'd, at least could last time I did it, still like an hour to get through, an hour wasted. I like to know who came up with the idea to make it 2 battles, for me they are exactly the same.

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Originally Posted by TesalionLortus

Well, yes, but now with "storied tales" there is nothing that encourages them to even try them out and earn 1 or 2 beginner points, they hit that roadblock at Pel and not even a tutorial experience in sight

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Players who are curious will play them and some give up after the first battle because they are so different from anything else in game. The solution with the tales is great because there is a lot of interesting story happening after these battles that gets missed otherwise. With Pelagir, that is not the case, but MT again becomes a problem concerning that matter.

It would be nice if all new content going forward would have some sort of "off ramp" built into the game that could be activated when the content is no longer relevant and is somewhat difficult to complete without help. Big battles are so irrelevant now that I don't even see the Pel runs out there anymore. The don't give much in the way of rewards. You can't use the Stars of Merit to buy crystals and scrolls for weapons. You don't need to run big battles to get the 2 trait points. This has happened many times in the game. For the initial epic, we were given the option to run it solo with the elf stone so people could complete the quests. If it is too time consuming to fix big battles then it would be nice if this situation was considered going forward and build something that will give the ability to complete the content later when no one is interested. Plan ahead rather than put it on the someday in the distant future to do list.

I would skip it, level up and come back! Kick (*^%$^& !!

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Originally Posted by Neinda

Plan ahead rather than put it on the someday in the distant future to do list.

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That sums it up nicely. While technically there is nothing in the system to allow a simple switch on/off built in inside of quests, either for a potential skip option or inspiration-type buffs, it's certainly not impossible to be more mindful when working on some of these things and either make some slightly different choices to begin with OR add something moderately simple to help/alleviate some content frustrations that may arise. So what I suggested before, I don't believe that in all that time spent on Shortened Accounts or Storied Tales MoL couldn't theoretically find the time to basically clone EB tutorial and put it at Pel (Camp of the Grey Host, to be precise), and provide some extra trait points for completion when you're at it, to make things much easier. Sure, it's easy to talk about, easier said than done, but still. Doesn't sound like a lot of work.

A tiny bit of such mindfulness is all that's needed sometimes. (Players who just want skip buttons, short short versions of things and shortcuts notwithstanding, and those players can still have their wishes fulfilled regardless - never completely all at once, but maybe in due time, but at least content/flow is somewhat functional in the meantime, regardless whether these extra shortcuts are fully available or not yet). Less of this "rush" to have this brand new thing shared with the playerbase to outshine all before it, while everything else left in the dust and just pay no heed to it. Sometimes a small heed payed to it can make things much smoother/mindful with content that's aged/is irrelevant to cap (or, in landscape design... with being able to remain consistent more effectively). Now, what I'm saying isn't abandon new things in favor of old things because the game clearly thrives on the next "new thing" but just pay more heed, combination of constant awareness of the old (regardless of the new) and some prior planning ahead too, where the old is worth of some serious consideration too when it comes to small things or things that can be made easier/avoided rather than more messy, that's all

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Originally Posted by MadeofLions

That's on me for not being clear, I suppose -- I'm not intent on making you play 'Retaking Pelargir' if you don't want to. It's just that making an alternative means of getting around it takes time and effort, and I promise you that I am fully, fully booked. It would be cool to add more Storied Tales - it would be weird if I was against the idea, considering the Helm's Deep ones were my idea in the first place...

MoL

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Hopefully it'll work out someday, when your schedule allows - I totally get it! :)

I think it does present a cool opportunity, down the road when, Valar willing, there's more time, to tell a "Storied Tales" version of Pelargir from a different perspective than the BB. In the BB, Player skirts around the battle and fights on the fringes. "Storied Tales" would be an awesome chance, at some point in the farther future, to revisit the Battle of Pelargir by having Player down - with - Aragorn and the Grey Host entering the gates and experiencing what the Army of the Dead does right now there with Aragorn, etc.

That way, it's not just more work for convenience's sake but also really does give more fun depth to that experience. So, in the "Storied Tale," Player could follow Aragorn, Halbarad, etc., right inside, fight some Corsairs down the stairs, fight some Corsairs alongside the Dead out in the main courtyard by the docks, and so forth.

The same "large battle" tech used in Pelennor Fields and the Black Gate could work there, which I'm pretty sure didn't quite exist yet when the Pelargir BB was first developed (*with all the groupings of soldiers fighting each other giving the impression of a large battlefield). Some mobs could flee and rush into the river, etc., as the battle depicts (*or moves the "camera away" using the "drama function" to show the distant imposter version from the BB at a bird's eye view, maybe). Just bouncing off ideas for the distant future! :D

Cheers! :D

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Originally Posted by wispsong

I always fail the last stage in Pelagir even with my main who has 100+ promotion points. I like Pelagir, I wish I could solo it, but I can't.

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Just in case, I too had failed Pelargir on my captain twice at the final spot (The rectangular location with both named elves). I don't know if it might be for the same reason, however I noticed the reason I failed was because one of the named elves (won't name them due to story spoilers) would effectively be trying to solo several of the enemies. Could be bad pathing of the rest of the allied npcs or some form of shortened assist range, but my advice would be to keep an eye on both Named elves through the last fight specifically to make sure they aren't taking on more than they should.

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Originally Posted by Jeroen4593

Enjoyed the game a lot so far. Beautiful landscaping, good storytelling, nice how you follow alongside the epic story.

Currently at leven 99 in Gondor, looking forward to see how the story will unfold.

Now I have to Retake Pelargir, which is the stupidest and silliest thing I had to perform in all my LOTRO history. Nothing to do with the story and utterly boring. But I need to do it if I want to progress the epic story line.

This I will not do. I will not learn a whole new tactics and figure out what I have to do, if doing it doesn't interest me in the least. And spend 40+ minutes, maybe retry if I fail, and then who knows how many of these things I will encounter in the future?

I will delete my character and say goodby to LOTRO. For good.

How sad, and how disappointing.

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I have only scanned through the replies here briefly so forgive me if this has already been said.

I happen to like Epic Battles, but I do realise that I'm probably in the minority. That said, Retaking Pelargir is not a roadblock, it's more like a speedhump. It is one of the easiest EBs to complete solo, even with zero promotion points. There are plenty of good guides around showing how to complete it, and if you are still stuck, as others have said, politely ask in world chat if anyone would be kind enough to help you duo it. If you care about the game even half as much as you claim in the original post, then this small obstruction shouldn't be enough to make you quit.

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Originally Posted by Wolfhelm

I have only scanned through the replies here briefly so forgive me if this has already been said.

I happen to like Epic Battles, but I do realise that I'm probably in the minority. That said, Retaking Pelargir is not a roadblock, it's more like a speedhump. It is one of the easiest EBs to complete solo, even with zero promotion points. There are plenty of good guides around showing how to complete it, and if you are still stuck, as others have said, politely ask in world chat if anyone would be kind enough to help you duo it. If you care about the game even half as much as you claim in the original post, then this small obstruction shouldn't be enough to make you quit.

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Basically, the issue of the OP is the mechanics of combat that he is forced to relearn from scratch already at an advanced level, not the difficulty of combat that you actually claim.
And he's right in the sense that at an advanced level someone doesn't have the patience to go back to the training phase of the game, but wants to see the game just evolve towards completion.
For this reason, it shouldn't bind the player to be involved in the context of the basic story, which demonstrates the compulsive nature of the game's structure.
But these have already been discussed in this thread.

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Originally Posted by AegisRegnat

Basically, the issue of the OP is the mechanics of combat that he is forced to relearn from scratch already at an advanced level, not the difficulty of combat that you actually claim.
And he's right in the sense that at an advanced level someone doesn't have the patience to go back to the training phase of the game, but wants to see the game just evolve towards completion.
For this reason, it shouldn't bind the player to be involved in the context of the basic story, which demonstrates the compulsive nature of the game's structure.
But these have already been discussed in this thread.

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As I said before I've only briefly scanned over some of the replies in this thread, some I'm not entirely sure what has or hasn't been discussed. My point was that he wouldn't need to learn the mechanics of Epic Battles, just read one or two of the guides that have been written specifically for people who just want to be able to get through Pelargir and then move on. I know this because I did so, quite a few years ago now, and found it was surprisingly easy to solo the instance if you know how. Also as I said, if that feels too hard, why not just reach out for help to duo it, I know some people prefer to play solo, but if he really wants to see the rest of the story then surely it's worth a little extra effort to get over this speedhump.

Bottom line is, as MoL said, there is no way SSG is going to spend the time and resources at the moment just to save a small minority of players who refuse to put in a little effort to get what they want.

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Originally Posted by Wolfhelm

As I said before I've only briefly scanned over some of the replies in this thread, some I'm not entirely sure what has or hasn't been discussed. My point was that he wouldn't need to learn the mechanics of Epic Battles, just read one or two of the guides that have been written specifically for people who just want to be able to get through Pelargir and then move on. I know this because I did so, quite a few years ago now, and found it was surprisingly easy to solo the instance if you know how. Also as I said, if that feels too hard, why not just reach out for help to duo it, I know some people prefer to play solo, but if he really wants to see the rest of the story then surely it's worth a little extra effort to get over this speedhump.

Bottom line is, as MoL said, there is no way SSG is going to spend the time and resources at the moment just to save a small minority of players who refuse to put in a little effort to get what they want.

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You're right, that's the way it is.
MoL also said: "Players always want two things: a Button that lets them skip things they don't like, and a Toggle so everyone can be happy."
But this is something that players have been asking for many years now and it's nothing new.
I don't personally care if they eventually do it or not, I'm just wondering: What's the difficulty for something as obviously simple as a skip button? They just make changes to the game that no one wants without considering what people are asking for.

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Originally Posted by AegisRegnat

You're right, that's the way it is.
MoL also said: "Players always want two things: a Button that lets them skip things they don't like, and a Toggle so everyone can be happy."
But this is something that players have been asking for many years now and it's nothing new.
I don't personally care if they eventually do it or not, I'm just wondering: What's the difficulty for something as obviously simple as a skip button? They just make changes to the game that no one wants without considering what people are asking for.

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Indeed. It's a game. People play it for enjoyment. If an optional skip button would make some of them enjoy the game even more, where's the problem?

Apart from the fact that it is a quick fix for the Pelargir problem, partially caused by the Storied Tales alternative for Helms Deep, as many here agree. An alternative that many like, but that needs follow up at Pelargir and Minas Tirith to bring the game back into balance. Such a follow up would be best, but there is no time to do it.

So?

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Originally Posted by TesalionLortus

That sums it up nicely. While technically there is nothing in the system to allow a simple switch on/off built in inside of quests, either for a potential skip option or inspiration-type buffs, it's certainly not impossible to be more mindful when working on some of these things and either make some slightly different choices to begin with OR add something moderately simple to help/alleviate some content frustrations that may arise. So what I suggested before, I don't believe that in all that time spent on Shortened Accounts or Storied Tales MoL couldn't theoretically find the time to basically clone EB tutorial and put it at Pel (Camp of the Grey Host, to be precise), and provide some extra trait points for completion when you're at it, to make things much easier. Sure, it's easy to talk about, easier said than done, but still. Doesn't sound like a lot of work.

A tiny bit of such mindfulness is all that's needed sometimes. (Players who just want skip buttons, short short versions of things and shortcuts notwithstanding, and those players can still have their wishes fulfilled regardless - never completely all at once, but maybe in due time, but at least content/flow is somewhat functional in the meantime, regardless whether these extra shortcuts are fully available or not yet). Less of this "rush" to have this brand new thing shared with the playerbase to outshine all before it, while everything else left in the dust and just pay no heed to it. Sometimes a small heed payed to it can make things much smoother/mindful with content that's aged/is irrelevant to cap (or, in landscape design... with being able to remain consistent more effectively). Now, what I'm saying isn't abandon new things in favor of old things because the game clearly thrives on the next "new thing" but just pay more heed, combination of constant awareness of the old (regardless of the new) and some prior planning ahead too, where the old is worth of some serious consideration too when it comes to small things or things that can be made easier/avoided rather than more messy, that's all

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The problem with Epic Battles is that they are required for the epic and if not done some chapters after are missed. If they had been introduced as interludes without interrupting the story if not done, we would have never needed work arounds. I still would have tried them and at least finished once but wouldn't have missed anything skipping them. And outgrowing them like we do instances is not possible since they are set to lvl 100. We can now skip tons of session plays with the books except the interlude session plays, but these can be skipped anyways.

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Originally Posted by wispsong

The problem with Epic Battles is that they are required for the epic and if not done some chapters after are missed. If they had been introduced as interludes without interrupting the story if not done, we would have never needed work arounds. I still would have tried them and at least finished once but wouldn't have missed anything skipping them. And outgrowing them like we do instances is not possible since they are set to lvl 100. We can now skip tons of session plays with the books except the interlude session plays, but these can be skipped anyways.

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Maybe I'm missing something here. What's the problem with skipping them, but continuing the story as if they had been done? So, skipping as in: Pretend that I have done it? Would you be missing something essential in the follow up? Or at least, something that is not easily corrected?

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Originally Posted by Jeroen4593

Maybe I'm missing something here. What's the problem with skipping them, but continuing the story as if they had been done? So, skipping as in: Pretend that I have done it? Would you be missing something essential in the follow up? Or at least, something that is not easily corrected?

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If I skip HD battles I miss the last book of vol 3. Not going into spoilers here. For the story this is an important part. It explains what happened in Isengard. Pelagir, I miss Aragorns preparations. I don't remember where the epic picks up if I skip MT battles, could be right after or the next book.

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Originally Posted by wispsong

If I skip HD battles I miss the last book of vol 3. Not going into spoilers here. For the story this is an important part. It explains what happened in Isengard. Pelagir, I miss Aragorns preparations. I don't remember where the epic picks up if I skip MT battles, could be right after or the next book.

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I understand that I would miss the battles. Obviously. But what about the following suggestion:

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Originally Posted by Arnenna

If there isn't enough time to create storied tales for the rest of the Epic battles, just add a skip button. Players can just click that option, get a bit of dialogue, see the final cutscene, to get the story ending, and then move onto the next part of the story.

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Does not seem too much work to me. Although not nothing, I realize, and I also realize that the devs are very busy. But I stand with what I said about the current unbalance in the game, and the roadblock it presents. Me it stopped dead, for one. My own choice, I know. But would this work? And would it be doable?

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Originally Posted by Jeroen4593

I understand that I would miss the battles. Obviously. But what about the following suggestion:

If there isn't enough time to create storied tales for the rest of the Epic battles, just add a skip button. Players can just click that option, get a bit of dialogue, see the final cutscene, to get the story ending, and then move onto the next part of the story.

Does not seem too much work to me. Although not nothing, I realize, and I also realize that the devs are very busy. But I stand with what I said about the current unbalance in the game, and the roadblock it presents. Me it stopped dead, for one. My own choice, I know. But would this work? And would it be doable?

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A "skip button" is not part of the game's system/UI/engine/quest system mechanic, most likely, and not something that would work without major changes. Just my guess of course but likely to be true. To skip things I suspect can only be done by introducing additional quests that work around the problem by fulfilling same conditions/quest scripts, which probably isn't exactly effortless either. Like Shortened Accounts that currently exist in game for session plays. Just text box, the end, quest completed, move on, which still takes some time to set up but much quicker than full-fledged story.

So if we talked max efficiency in delivering shortcuts where people seem to need them/complain to have them (but otherwise aren't exactly a must because connected content is technically soloable) then shortened account approach sounds like something to focus on, rather than create these storied instances. Could have been done for Helm's Deep too and wouldn't take 6 months, I guess, and perhaps all Epic Battles could have been done all in one go. But here I don't exactly complain that they did greater storied events for Helm's Deep since this meant Bill had an opportunity to do some music for Helm's Deep content... which was lacking before. But then again, MT battles have their own cool music already, so there wouldn't be that benefit and plenty of cool Bill's take on Gondor in upcoming content anyway (I suspect), so I would agree a simple "shortened account" version could be done for Pel/MT. But MoL will choose to do what he will choose to do. And depending on how it turns out some of us may then complain about what the devs choose to focus on, which is clearly some subject of controversy in a game where resources are limited and still so many things in a queue that can be done, "left for later".

People who hated Epic Battles with a passion are glad "Storied Tales" exist and wanna see more of them to completely erase EB's from their perception, those who never had problems with them may question why Storied Tales were even created for something that was technically a soloable content if you put a decent effort and time into it, and I am somehow in the middle I guess but still appreciate the opportunity for the music that was deliver and a few of these additional story bits. But still, my head down from the clouds at my desk and efficiency mode enabled, I do believe efficient and straightforward solutions are time savers (which doesn't necessarily translate to lackluster or failed solutions if done right). Such as offer the simplest "skip" option (/shortened account) to content considered solo and, like with this case of EBs for example, throw in some extra free trait points to kickstart players in the system and make it easier to actually undertake the challenge on solo if one really wanna get through it, not just read a shortened thing

It's a shame OP felt they had to delete.

The epic battles were an absolutely miserable experience (though MT was actually more fun/epic than pelargir was). Got through them the first time duoing with my wife but still very miserable. We stubbornly got through them but hated pelargir's battle. Was nice to DO the battle, I've always wanted to see that part, but still hated it. Minas Tirith was MUCH better.

OP you might want to check out FF14. Story starts off a bit slow, but it's very solo friendly (almost all the story instances can be done with an AI group now and the ones that can't are very simple to queue up for and get done). There are also solo duties, which are like the solo epic book instances in Lotro, only if you fail one you get the option of trying again at a much lower difficulty. Same goes for the class quests (every single class has its own unique and often compelling story separate from the main campaign.) Best of all, the free trial gets you through the first expansion so you get a taste of everything. And people are always running the lower level stuff due (even OG endgame stuff) to how the game is set up.

I also find the game is much better at showing a story than Lotro is. And I say that loving Lotro's story (and at higher levels lotro got a lot better at presentation)