Hidden Nuggets we see all the time...

I started a new thread in General Discussion about what I found, and Gildhur kindly reminded me of this thread. So I'm pasting my original post here:

So I’m rereading The Lord of the Rings, and because of a coincidence, I noticed an amazing detail in Nanduhirion that I missed when I was leveling my first character (a loremaster, now level 65).

Here’s what happened: two nights ago, my level 57 rune-keeper, worn down by the long dark of Moria, finally exited by way of the First Hall and arrived at Mekham-Bizru, the dwarf camp in Nanduhirion. Later that same night, I picked up the book and resumed my reading. I didn’t plan it this way, but by sheer chance I was at that point in The Fellowship of the Ring at which Frodo and company (minus Gandalf) narrowly escape from Moria by the same exit.

So I read on. On the way to Lorien, Gimli and Frodo stop to visit Durin’s Stone at one point. (This is at the beginning of Chapter 6 in Book II.) Gimli says that Durin’s Stone marks the spot where Durin first looked into the lake there, which is called Mirrormere.

Now, I'm not familiar with a lot of the deep lore of the books, so at the time I wasn’t sure why Durin would have wanted to commemorate that event. But I looked it up later, and it turns out to be very interesting. Durin saw what looked like a crown of stars reflected over his head in the waters of Mirrormere. He took that as a sign, and he founded Khazad-Dum there.

Anyway, I left off that night with the Fellowship camped near the borders of Lorien. The next morning, I logged into the game before work and started questing in Nanduhirion.

I could see Durin’s Stone. I wanted to inspect it up close, but I couldn’t because a group of orcs had set up camp around the stone (the camp is called Uruk-Gashan). They were densely packed, and they were all level 59 and 60 to my 57. But seeing the stone reminded me that during their visit, Gimli and Frodo had also taken a moment to look down into the waters of Mirrormere, as Durin had done long before. This is how Tolkien described what they saw:

“They stooped over the dark water. At first they could see nothing. Then slowly they saw the forms of the encircling mountains mirrored in a profound blue, and the peaks were like plumes of white flame above them; beyond there was a space of sky. There like jewels sunk in the deep shone glinting stars, though sunlight was in the sky above.”

In particular, I remembered being struck by that detail of the stars being reflected in the water, even in broad daylight. I hadn’t yet researched the lore when I was in game that morning, so I didn’t know what the reflected stars meant to Durin. I just thought it was an interesting detail.

Well, the sun was shining brightly as I was questing in Nanduhirion …so I decided to take a detour and have a look into the waters of Mirrormere myself, wondering if I would be able to see the stars. I looked down, and sure enough…there they were! I could see hundreds of stars, even though the sun was shining brightly in the mountain sky. It was an amazing sight!

Now that’s what I call attention to detail! Well done, Turbine!

Now that I've looked up Durin's vision there, I also want to go back now and see if I can spot the constellation that formed the crown over Durin’s head. Has anyone tried that?

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Originally Posted by ilikeham49

i dont know if its been said brfore but: in fotr when you read about the trip from the poney to the marshes and weather top. the narrorator(tolkien) talks about when the group of hobbits and strider are in the marshes we read that sam heres weird bugs at night and calles them neekerbreekers(someone corret my spelling i think im a bit off). and if you go to the marshes you will see none other than neekerbreekers. (sounds like someone was really paying attention here.

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I remember that part and for some reason I always pictured the neeker-beekers more as tiny bugs, like the stinging Gnats. Been a while since I have read it so I could be wrong...

Have not been able to find it so if its already in this thread I have some questions about Lore as I have not found them yet:

Is Beorn in the game? One of my favorite parts in The Hobbit was when Gandalf so cleverly arranged for the dwarves to arrive two at a time to his house.

And since I have not made it to Mirkwood yet, please tell me the spiders there are called Tomnoddys and Attercops :)

Oh, I thought of another one; where is bilbos house? I realize at this point that it had already been left to Frodo but I wonder if the mark that Gandalf put on the door at the beggining of the hobbit is there?

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Originally Posted by Owchi

I remember that part and for some reason I always pictured the neeker-beekers more as tiny bugs, like the stinging Gnats. Been a while since I have read it so I could be wrong...

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Their size isn't described that I know of, but many things in the game are exaggerated in scale. There are already other gnats in the game, but neekers being something special have been Embiggened™ for effect.

[quote]Have not been able to find it so if its already in this thread I have some questions about Lore as I have not found them yet:

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Is Beorn in the game? One of my favorite parts in The Hobbit was when Gandalf so cleverly arranged for the dwarves to arrive two at a time to his house.

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We only have the southern part of Mirkwood from the Anduin to Dol Guldur, so we don't have any of the Hobbit areas from Carrock to Thranduil's Halls.

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And since I have not made it to Mirkwood yet, please tell me the spiders there are called Tomnoddys and Attercops :)

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While the spiders in Mirkwood (yes, there are many!) are not named that, there are references in the quests to those names.

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Oh, I thought of another one; where is bilbos house? I realize at this point that it had already been left to Frodo but I wonder if the mark that Gandalf put on the door at the beggining of the hobbit is there?

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Bilbo's house is right where it should be, up The Hill from Hobbiton. :) I don't recall any mark on the door, though.

I'm continually amazed at the in-depth knowledge of lore (and the photographic memory recall!) that many people in this game have (many of whom have posted on this thread). Personally what I would easily pay good gold for would be a "Lore-Expert's Guided Tour of Lotro" with an emphasis on these "Hidden Nuggets" and other aspects of the lore that stand out in game. Any RP kins on Landroval do this? Monthly events? That would be most excellent!

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Originally Posted by gildhur

Their size isn't described that I know of, but many things in the game are exaggerated in scale. There are already other gnats in the game, but neekers being something special have been Embiggened™ for effect.

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Ah. Will have to revisit that part.

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Originally Posted by gildhur

We only have the southern part of Mirkwood from the Anduin to Dol Guldur, so we don't have any of the Hobbit areas from Carrock to Thranduil's Halls.

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Makes sense, I was not real clear on the geography there. I hope there are some fun quests with the shape changer :)

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Originally Posted by gildhur

While the spiders in Mirkwood (yes, there are many!) are not named that, there are references in the quests to those names.

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Excellent. :D

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Originally Posted by gildhur

Bilbo's house is right where it should be, up The Hill from Hobbiton. :) I don't recall any mark on the door, though.

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Oops, of course :D

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Originally Posted by Owchi

Oh, I thought of another one; where is bilbos house? I realize at this point that it had already been left to Frodo but I wonder if the mark that Gandalf put on the door at the beggining of the hobbit is there?

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From The Hobbit, when Gandalf joins the unexpected party at Bilbo's house,

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Originally Posted by Tolkien

-- a loud knock. Not a ring, but a hard rat-tat on the hobbit's beautiful green door. Somebody was banging with a stick! [...] And there was Gandalf behind, leaning on his staff and laughing. He had made quite a dent on the beautiful door; he had also, by the way, knocked out the secret mark that he had put there the morning before.

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I'll have to go check, now, to see if there's a dent in the door!

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Originally Posted by Pipemajor

From The Hobbit, when Gandalf joins the unexpected party at Bilbo's house,

I'll have to go check, now, to see if there's a dent in the door!

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I went there, and had to slap myself because I should have known that where Lobelia was hanging around would be Bilbos old house and some quests took me to that very spot. :D And you can even go inside! I had no idea...

Anyhoo I didnt see much on the door other than the ornate design, at first I thought maybe that is what Gandalf left but it just looks like part of the door.

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Originally Posted by Cedro

Well, the sun was shining brightly as I was questing in Nanduhirion …so I decided to take a detour and have a look into the waters of Mirrormere myself, wondering if I would be able to see the stars. I looked down, and sure enough…there they were! I could see hundreds of stars, even though the sun was shining brightly in the mountain sky. It was an amazing sight!

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Nice post, thanks.

I was questing in Evendim yesterday, and was working on the line of quests where you go all over looking at stone markers..

The quest that directs you to the final stone marker is named "There and Back Again", like Bilbo's book.

I have seen that quest so many times, and it always makes me smile.

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Originally Posted by Rhino-Man

I'm continually amazed at the in-depth knowledge of lore (and the photographic memory recall!) that many people in this game have (many of whom have posted on this thread). Personally what I would easily pay good gold for would be a "Lore-Expert's Guided Tour of Lotro" with an emphasis on these "Hidden Nuggets" and other aspects of the lore that stand out in game. Any RP kins on Landroval do this? Monthly events? That would be most excellent!

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I do this on a weekly basis but only for folks I invite over to real-world home that are not gamers but Tolkien geeks nonetheless. A guide for others to walk themselves through would be a wonderful thing.

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Originally Posted by darkoutcast

I do this on a weekly basis but only for folks I invite over to real-world home that are not gamers but Tolkien geeks nonetheless. A guide for others to walk themselves through would be a wonderful thing.

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I don't know about a guided tour event, but there are a couple threads (hopefully still around) that follow the book text through the game with screenshots showing places as described. Truly marvelous stuff.

Several years ago I conducted a lore-based guided tour for my kinship (in character) from Hobbiton to Bree. We stopped at all the locations mentioned in the Fellowship of the Ring for description, story-telling, and discussion. We had hoped to continue to Rivendell (this was pre-Moria), but it proved hard to get members together on a regular basis. Nevertheless, the sessions we ran seemed to be great fun, and they proved to be a good review for me.

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Originally Posted by karakedi

Several years ago I conducted a lore-based guided tour for my kinship (in character) from Hobbiton to Bree. We stopped at all the locations mentioned in the Fellowship of the Ring for description, story-telling, and discussion. We had hoped to continue to Rivendell (this was pre-Moria), but it proved hard to get members together on a regular basis. Nevertheless, the sessions we ran seemed to be great fun, and they proved to be a good review for me.

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Karakedi? THE Karakedi, as in: from MEO times?

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Originally Posted by MorfangTheDuck

Karakedi? THE Karakedi, as in: from MEO times?

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Indeed I am that karakedi, the Hiril Ist of the Elves of Imladris. I remember you well, Master Duck! *waves*

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Originally Posted by karakedi

Several years ago I conducted a lore-based guided tour for my kinship (in character) from Hobbiton to Bree. We stopped at all the locations mentioned in the Fellowship of the Ring for description, story-telling, and discussion. We had hoped to continue to Rivendell (this was pre-Moria), but it proved hard to get members together on a regular basis. Nevertheless, the sessions we ran seemed to be great fun, and they proved to be a good review for me.

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Likewise, I hosted a similar journey through Moria just 10 days ago on Laurelin (EU RP-server, I'm an EU player), though with emphasis on important dwarf-locations rather than the Fellowship's journey. I'm hoping to repeat it later this year/early next year.

I know Moria get's a lot of flak for being dark and a tough area to quest in (not to mention what people say about the Nameless and the Foundations of Stone), but I really think Turbine nailed it when it comes to making it feel like the greatest halls ever crafted by the dwarves.

EDIT: Saw that the Mirrormere was mentioned one page back, we were actually lucky enough during our journey to get there just as the sun was rising, so we could see the stars during the daylight.

Currently reading through the books again, and at times it feels like there's a nugget on every other page. When the Fellowship travelled through Eregion, Aragorn mentions that there used to be birds singing from the trees, but for some reason they are gone now.

There's a quest Eregion where you are asked to kill lizards, can you guess why? That's right, because the lizards are killing the other wildlife in the area.

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Originally Posted by karakedi

Indeed I am that karakedi, the Hiril Ist of the Elves of Imladris. I remember you well, Master Duck! *waves*

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Woohoo! *waves back*

Any other old timers around?

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Originally Posted by MorfangTheDuck

Woohoo! *waves back*

Any other old timers around?

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/wave

I was around back then, though I wasn't as active as others. :)

Just finished reading all 100 pages of this thread over a couple of days... Lots of things I have yet to see and will have to look for! I too am constantly having these little moments of 'oh wow, they put THAT in'. It's terrific. I did want to comment on a couple of things in previous posts that jumped out at me, and these are from posts WAY back in the thread, so forgive me for not quoting...

Someone mentioned Bronwë's Folly and wondered at it being a Sindarin translation of the Quenya Voronwë. If memory serves, the actual translation is Bronwëg, but I may be mistaken. I'd have to get out my copy of The Silmarillion to be sure.

Also, during the discussion of potential ages of elvish characters, someone stated that the First Age was approximately 580 years, from the first rising of the Sun until Morgoth's expulsion during the War of Wrath. Again, I may be mistaken, but I would swear I remember reading that the beginning of counted time was at the first mingling of the lights of the two trees in Valinor. How that bears on the beginning of the First Age though I can't be sure. The first rising of the Sun didn't occur until the remnant of the Noldor that Fëanor left behind in Aman had crossed the Helcaraxë and arrived in the northwest of Beleriand. That seems late to me to begin counting the First Age... but again, I could be wrong.

I re-read the Silmarillion again recently, but now I want to go back to check those passages!

Anyhow... I love that there are so many lore geeks playing this game, and really love that there were lore geeks on the development team!

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Originally Posted by Gaelrond

Just finished reading all 100 pages of this thread over a couple of days... Lots of things I have yet to see and will have to look for! I too am constantly having these little moments of 'oh wow, they put THAT in'. It's terrific. I did want to comment on a couple of things in previous posts that jumped out at me, and these are from posts WAY back in the thread, so forgive me for not quoting...

Someone mentioned Bronwë's Folly and wondered at it being a Sindarin translation of the Quenya Voronwë. If memory serves, the actual translation is Bronwëg, but I may be mistaken. I'd have to get out my copy of The Silmarillion to be sure.

Also, during the discussion of potential ages of elvish characters, someone stated that the First Age was approximately 580 years, from the first rising of the Sun until Morgoth's expulsion during the War of Wrath. Again, I may be mistaken, but I would swear I remember reading that the beginning of counted time was at the first mingling of the lights of the two trees in Valinor. How that bears on the beginning of the First Age though I can't be sure. The first rising of the Sun didn't occur until the remnant of the Noldor that Fëanor left behind in Aman had crossed the Helcaraxë and arrived in the northwest of Beleriand. That seems late to me to begin counting the First Age... but again, I could be wrong.

I re-read the Silmarillion again recently, but now I want to go back to check those passages!

Anyhow... I love that there are so many lore geeks playing this game, and really love that there were lore geeks on the development team!

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If you're wanting to be certain of the timeline of the First Age, consult "Unfinished Tales". There is a timeline of the First Age, much like the timelines in the back of the ROTK.

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Originally Posted by Gaelrond

Just finished reading all 100 pages of this thread over a couple of days... Lots of things I have yet to see and will have to look for! I too am constantly having these little moments of 'oh wow, they put THAT in'. It's terrific. I did want to comment on a couple of things in previous posts that jumped out at me, and these are from posts WAY back in the thread, so forgive me for not quoting...

Someone mentioned Bronwë's Folly and wondered at it being a Sindarin translation of the Quenya Voronwë. If memory serves, the actual translation is Bronwëg, but I may be mistaken. I'd have to get out my copy of The Silmarillion to be sure.

Also, during the discussion of potential ages of elvish characters, someone stated that the First Age was approximately 580 years, from the first rising of the Sun until Morgoth's expulsion during the War of Wrath. Again, I may be mistaken, but I would swear I remember reading that the beginning of counted time was at the first mingling of the lights of the two trees in Valinor. How that bears on the beginning of the First Age though I can't be sure. The first rising of the Sun didn't occur until the remnant of the Noldor that Fëanor left behind in Aman had crossed the Helcaraxë and arrived in the northwest of Beleriand. That seems late to me to begin counting the First Age... but again, I could be wrong.

I re-read the Silmarillion again recently, but now I want to go back to check those passages!

Anyhow... I love that there are so many lore geeks playing this game, and really love that there were lore geeks on the development team!

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The First Age did begin with the first rising of the Sun. And, if I remember correctly, that's when the Children of Men first awoke.

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Originally Posted by Berephon

This thread has completely made my day. :D

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This is the best thread on the forums, in my opinion. I remember reading it right after the above quote... oh so many years ago!

I don't know if this one has been posted yet. It is not everyday but it is repeatable. I like it because the Devs are poking fun at one of their game systems! -)

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...nsterClass.jpg

TQQdles™,

Dolnor Numbwit
Eternal Newbie
Gladden Server

P.s. I think gildhur is older than the stones of the Prancing Pony but not as dense! -)

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Originally Posted by lunafatal

OMG...

That video should be banned or edited... The fireworks looks AWESOME...

Can you please bring back those early beta build fireworks

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Another quick old MEO video for ya!

http://www.truveo.com/When-LOTRO-was-MEO/id/421852550

TQQdles™,

Dolnor Numbwit
Eternal Newbie

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Originally Posted by Gaelrond

Also, during the discussion of potential ages of elvish characters, someone stated that the First Age was approximately 580 years, from the first rising of the Sun until Morgoth's expulsion during the War of Wrath. Again, I may be mistaken, but I would swear I remember reading that the beginning of counted time was at the first mingling of the lights of the two trees in Valinor. How that bears on the beginning of the First Age though I can't be sure. The first rising of the Sun didn't occur until the remnant of the Noldor that Fëanor left behind in Aman had crossed the Helcaraxë and arrived in the northwest of Beleriand. That seems late to me to begin counting the First Age... but again, I could be wrong.

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It's called the First Age but the full name is First Age of the Sun, there were of course many ages before that.

Yeah, after I posted about the length of the First Age, I went back and checked a few different canonical sources, and while I did find some differing statements, even from Tolkien himself, by general agreement the First Age is indeed about 580 years long. I stand corrected.