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Being able to stun someone in charge would allow you to use your hamstring against a stunned target, which means they would not be able to block/parry/evade the skill.Quote:
Originally Posted by TildenAntonini
"Don't give me this thing, which solves my problem!"
SS Doesn't have a cooldown, you could so easily abuse the stun. Has noone even considered a grouped reaver that can rely on others superior snares just toggle through ~4-5 targets to stun? Hamstring isn't all that bad, but the trait is virtually inaccessible and will see zero use in PvP.
I think the way it was worded seemed to point to it being a "once per charge" sort of thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorandril
Look at how the champ version was worded in the blog: "While sprint is active, the next successful execution of Swift Strike will daze an opponent for 3 seconds."
I think it's a given that the functionality of this change was going to be mirrored (ie: you get a self buff when you activate sprint/charge, the buff is consumed when you use the skill which procs the stun).
Even so, a stun doesn't really solve much. the suggested snare change for BA's is ridiculous... Current hunters can 40% snare for TWENTY seconds from 40m.
Hamstring has a much lower magnitude, duration, and higher cooldown... Combined with a trait that'll never be used that STILL doesn't increase any of the above over the strength of the 2 snares I just listed.
Probably why giving blade toss a snare would be better than a root.
The hunter snare is pottable, the reaver snare is not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorandril
But I actually agree with you that a snare/root on blade toss is more valuable to a reaver than the stun with charge.
I would say that it should come with blade toss as is though, you already have to slot a trait for the skill, having to slot a second is getting a bit silly.
Pots don't even come close to balancing the two, I'm almost positive it has half the cooldown if not less. And I didn't anywhere in my post suggest a trait for a trait.
Well... a few more trait slots for us creeps... ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Odin_of_Freyr
Good point there.. Kelsen should take some note about the cureable/uncuerable thing.
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Originally Posted by TildenAntonini
I think that trait lines would be better. For the reaver it should look like this ::
-AoE line (less damage / debuffes)
-Single Target + Dots
-Debuff and self-heal.. (more debuffs but self-heal)
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Originally Posted by Kelsen
These changes rule, almost make me want to re-sub.
so what if you have a lm in your group and he stunns you from 40m thats fair i guessQuote:
Originally Posted by Thorandril
uh...charge? you trollin'?
First, thanks for releasing these ideas now so you can incorporate the feedback.
As a rank 9 reaver here is my reaction -
Keep the reaver distinctive. There are things we do very well(dps) at the cost of not being able to do other skills (heal,cc,escape). Don't water us down by adding some complementary skills. Just keep us the single purposed class we are.
1. No stun in charge. There is too much CC in pvp as it is. You are already able to get to your target in charge, which is all a reaver ever asks for.
2. No in battle heal.
3. As said before, the reaver needs a way to combat kiting. Either by removing a slow on us or by applying a slow to our target. if we are engaged first from range by a ranged class lrm/hunter/rk/mini its a non-contest.
4. We only have one real debuff (20% miss). I propose we change the no block/parry skill to make the target unable to evade for 5 seconds, keep the 1min cd. I have noticed that when devstrike does not hit, it always evaded.
Reaver is a strong class, problem with balance is handling the freeps.
inandout/cuzicare/wizdowen
If they are giving a class that already has a stun whenever they want it another stun, then give the reavers one as well. After reading the update on the champs I can't see one side having it and not the other.
Better yet let the reaver counter the champ stun. Same idea as the charge stun, yet make it an AOE Snap Out of IT. It would be a 5 target AOE call it 10-15 m skill that wipes Stuns/dazes/roots. That would make a nice counter to the larger Freep CC issue and give the reaver a chance to help his/her side by getting them out of trouble.
Give the 3 target AOE shield bash to a war leader and you might have something here. Give CC to those who need it, not just to make it even since we are giving it to one side so we have to give it to the other.
Tydalmir
Daze != stun.
I don't need or want cc on a reaver, I just don't want to be kited or blow through my entire power pool in 30s. The issues are as easy to fix as they are to list. End of story.
when expanding freeps to fill levels 50-60 for moria, the approach was not "lets fill in the gaps" it was lets add gameplay changing skills. I dont see this approach for creeps in these diaries. Instead the mindset is similar to the freep class updates, which is to bring each class up to a certain level of quality. The goal for creeps in ROI should be the same for freeps, add something new to the class. Along those lines for the reaver :
1. a 5 second can't evade debuff on the target for severing strike, this will help land devstrike and help deal with burgs touch n go.
2. 5 consecutive sudden strikes hits makes all reaver skills 5m range.
3. dying rage is not that useful. give reavers a high dps mode like hunter burnhot or a toggle like champ cbr/fervor.
4. scourging blow like skill, where we can remove the dot for damage now that is half of the damage the dot has left.
5. grab the ankles, with a leaping animation a reaver can root target within 10 meters, but the reaver will be put in the liedown emote.
6. killer blades, after a devstrike kb, the next strike does double damage
7. sword storage, one of the reaver swords is deposited into the target, causing a large dot, and the reaver will not be dual wielding for the duration of the dot.
8. uni-directional, the reaver gains the ability to move backwards at the same rate as forwards, an on-defeat response.
9. double edged, the reaver is able to deal 2 different damage types, each damage type is represented by each edge of each blade. this would be a trait and 2nd damage type would be selectable.
10. line in the sand, a reaver is able to draw a line in the earth, if any npc/freep crosses this line the reaver is immediately put into a combat state and is broken free of any cc.
11.marked as an equal, when a target has marked as an equal the reaver and the target are unable to hit eachother in the back, doing so breaks the buff.
12. the time is now, next attack is an immediate skill
13. the kitchen sink, devstrike does 50% more damage but you are knocked down upon execution.
There are two paths to deal with all the escape skills in the moors. Either give them to both sides, or give them to neither. Atm freeps side has alot more escape skills. If this will continue then the reaver should have an escape skill to.
10. re-charge, enter charge in combat, but at a cost of 3,000 morale.
11. momentary oblivious - all damage is halved for the duration, but upon expiration the mitigated damage is doubled.
as it stands the reaver is a strong, fun class with just two issues of icpr, and kiting control. But that dosen't mean reavers should not get new toys. The class should continue to grow.
Inandout/Wizdowen
reavers just need a way to not be kited so much. power drain would be nice too :)
Please consider an adjustment to Severing Strike. Currently there is very little reason to add the skill to a reaver's rotation. Sudden Strikes has no CD and does more damage with about half of the power cost. Ravage has the same power cost as Severing Strike, but has far more damage potential with only a 4second CD. Severing Strike's relatively high power cost (exacerbated by a reaver's low power pool/icpr) and 1 minute CD makes this skill very lackluster, as it can still be evaded. I'd suggest changing the skill to not being able to miss or BPE'd at all. One guaranteed hit per minute, at a medium damage level is not too unreasonable IMHO.
Edit post,
A hinder instead of a root sounds alot more apealing. Or a range slow like -45% run speed for 8 sec's on blade toss hiting. Thanks agian, and any other goodies are welcome! :)
Definitely a snare off blade toss, more icpr/base power, and a substantial buff to timeout (considering the power return from wrath seems to be disappearing) would balance the reaver.
I'd also like to see a change to severing strike so its a no bpe skill to justify its fairly hefty power cost, and perhaps dying rage be made more useful vs tactical/ranged. Certain traits need to be seriously reworked as well, such as Extended Reach. +1 AoE targets is a joke of a class trait for a r11+ reaver. Change it to +3 or more aoe targets or change it to increase melee skill range similar to guards.
Increased melee range isn't necessary, reavers are already 1m over every melee besides guardians who're legacied for it.
Clarifying a few things the above poster has said. Reaver range is 3m so .5 above normal melee. And you had the cds backwards in an earlier post. Dying rage is 10m, against the odds is 15.
Also I still think a horn is in order. It was allready proposed for us to get a stun just most didnt like the combo/spammable way it was gonna be delivered.....so again I'd like to see a skill around r8ish for the stun.
And blade toss imo should be similar to ba hinder with a 2 sec root then 40% short duration slow.
I really like the ideas to thrash though I do have to ask, would disarm still have a 1minute cd/ is it needed to activate thrash with this idea?
I'd personally would like the r15 slow to be available at a slightly lower rank, rank 13-r14. It would be nice if gut punch has even just a 1second stun added to it. Blade-toss for me already seems all round perfect, I mainly only use it when I'm in the mist of freeps and can see my target trying to get away, it's a good *finishing off* skill*.
As Elysiak mentioned the r11 reaver trait is pretty much useless. Severing strike is a useless skill too.
Yeah i can finally post here on the american forums just hope im not too late even though theres still many a months before isen goes live.
Anyway the purposed reaver changes and creep changes in general are great its good to see a dev being active in making creep side better. But something extra wouldn't go amiss especially with the purposed charges to the freep classes that are starting to come in.
One of the things you talk about and everyone agrees is that reavers can be kitted far too easily, blade toss was a start to try and fix this and adding a root/slow effect to the skill would be great, imo though the improved hamstring at r15 should be given to reavers at a much lower rank or just made to be the standard hamstring this would at least put us on par with guards/champs/minis/lms/wardens in terms of getting kitted or our targets just running away.
*charge changes
I wasn't a big fan of the stun when in charge but i guess if a freep is getting it we might as well have it aswell. Though i would prefer to see a change to charge or an improved trait for it, like:
improved charge :*gut punch changesQuote:
would add some tail-end effects to charge, these would be based off the crazy real world thing called momentum, it just seems stupid that a fast moving reaver should hit a brick wall once charge ends with the ammount of slows and or stuns freeps have the idea for these tail-end effects would be on the experation of charge a momentum buff will be applied for 4 seconds, which is pretty much the ec/oc flag buff making the reaver immune to cc and slows, once these 4 seconds are up a lesser momentum buff will be applied for 3 seconds making the reaver immune to cc but not slows which would be like the brand buff and once this is up the reaver can be stunned into oblivion like is common now.
liking the idea of buffing gut punch but like that has been brought up already resetting dev strike brings with it many power issues and so will proably see little use and the same for blade toss when needed to be reset your taget will most likely be out of range and the use of this is also gated behind the reaver having to trait for blade toss. my idea for gut punch is:
v1 :v2 :Quote:
have gut punch reset disarm, which is one of the most useful skills a reaver has and will be of benefit to all reavers and also with the changes to thrash even more so to high ranked reavers because there is little use to having thrash on a 15 second cd while disarm is on a 1 minute cd might aswell just give thrash no cd at all.
*thrash changes :Quote:
have gut punch on use apply a stacking -10% skill power cost buff to the reaver that will expire after 9 seconds of being out of combat. this buff can keep stacking on each use of gut punch so in a long drawn out raid v raid fight a reaver could eventually get to a -100% skill power cost.
your other ideas are great and see no need to add or change anything about them. though there are some other little things that need a fix or looking at.Quote:
bloody brilliant changes makes the skill truely worthy of being a rank 13 skill. only suggestion i have for this skill would be to make it so it cannot be b/p/e since the skill is gated behind another skill that has to land and not be cured and that skill is on a 1 minute cd.
*Mutilation :*Dying rage :Quote:
great skill but dot doesnt stack with other reavers skill, make it so.
*Dev strike :Quote:
why not immune to roots?
*new skill Rage :Quote:
give higher rank reavers a reason to keep the trait for cd slotted, atm it can be reset if we really need it and with the purposed change to gut punch, theres little reason to slot it, maybe have it make dev strike not being b/p/e like so many high hitting high power cost freep skills are.
thats all folks, hope they aren't too over the top...Quote:
5-10 minute cd will act like some freep skills pledge/TnG but different in that when a freep uses their skills they dont want to be hit for a reaver, they WANT to be hit. For this skill on use it will apply a buff to the reaver for 10-15 seconds, that when 4-5 damaging skills are used on the reaver, charge will become usable incombat.
I would modify the skills as follows... reasoning added:
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Charge
Current: Out of combat, increase movement speed & gain immunity to CC
Reason for Change: Reavers are shock troops. Anyone who plays a reaver knows that a charge instills fear in the free peoples. Lets make that implicit. This will also encourage reavers to stay in combat during ranged standoffs where they typically have to get out of Dodge whilst charge is still active.
Charging adds a 15s "Shock Troop" buff to the reaver. This buff changes the skill Serration into Scattering Serration - each target that takes damage from this skill suffers from fear for 10s. The skill is consumed with the first use of Serration.
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Resilience
Current: Removes stun or root
Reason for Change: Does very little to improve the reavers resilience to incoming damage.
If a stun is removed for 10s it adds a -10% incoming damage buff for each second of remaining stun that is negated (for example 3s of stun remaining would be -30%) capped at 75%.
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Trait: Improved Gut Punch
Current: Low damage induction interrupt.
Reason for Change: Adds additional impact to the skill through a jackpot mechanic. Potentially (through Time Out) helps the reaver to gain power during long solo fights (esp if Wrath is changed).
Improved Skill is available at Rank 7
Increase damage by 10%
On Crit: Enables on defeat events.
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Blade Toss
Current: High damage ranged skill.
Reason for Change: Highly unlikely to ranged crit and many do not consider it worthy of a trait slot.
Add a 10s -40% run speed snare to the target. Negated upon damage.
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Trait: Enhanced Skill: Hamstring
Current: Adds a very small CD reduction to Hamstring. Increases magnitude by 10%.
Reason for Change: At rank 15 this skill is also out of the reach for pretty much all reavers. Reavers need to combat kiters.
Replaces Extended Reach at rank 11.
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Trait: Extended Reach
Current: Adds one target to AoE skills.
Reason for Change: Pretty useless Trait. Toss it out and replace it with a worthy Rank 15 skill.
Trait: Don't Look Back
When below 50% health the Reaver can call upon renewed strength to push through the pain.
Sets run speed to 100% for 15s.
Increases incoming melee damage by 20%.
2m cooldown.
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Quite a few skills also need some buffs to their magnitude... Time Out and Against the Odds (really, the equivalent of three extra skills and one incoming blow isn't helping any odds unless you are fighting Norbogs). I like the changes to Wrath but power issues must be resolved some other way if this is changed.
The current rank 15 slow is -35% with the trait. It doesn't quite make it clear on the trait but it does mention increasing it's magnitude as well as decreasing the cool down Sluggard. You have some nice ideas, I might add some more of mine later. You too Spunkie, I like it.