Bullroarer Update 23 Preview #2: Release Notes and Feedback Thread

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Originally Posted by MAWorking

There is no proof that the "majority" want it removed. The loudest people here are hardly the "majority".
I dare to venture a good chunk of players (even paying players) do not come to the forums due to how toxic they are.

State your opinion, leave false claims to the politicians.

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There is no difference if there is a lock or not.

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Originally Posted by Vastin

Another reason for the locks, frankly, is that they also give us time to address serious problems that might arise, such as content or reward exploits, before they can cause too much damage and force us to commit a server-wide rollback or something
like that.
-Vastin

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I would believe this statement if it would come from any other company than SSG.
We have seen in the past how fast SSG is with bug fixing. I would have died several deaths several times if I had stopped breathing every time the horrible things happened. (just remember the issue with tactical DPS rune! 5 months of silence before we got a "it is a bug" from the devs. (No, I will neither forget nor forgive that.)

So again: There is no difference if there is a lock or not. I really do not care about.
(I'm maybe not a hardcore progressive raider, but for sure a successful T2 raider)

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Originally Posted by CaerArianrhod

There is no difference if there is a lock or not.

So again: There is no difference if there is a lock or not. I really do not care about.
(I'm maybe not a hardcore progressive raider, but for sure a successful T2 raider)

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Me too. Im not sure I actually care what the end result is. If no lock, I will grind it and hard. If there is a lock, I will do it daily without fail.

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Originally Posted by MAWorking

With this said, isn't this expansion making it pretty clear/obvious if gear came from a lootbox vs an instance? Lower or base level is from a box... higher is from an instance (that is my understanding at least)

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If you are referring to Update 23 (which is not an expansion), there is a chance that gear from the loot-box will be equal to that found from an instance.

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Originally Posted by Skyfoot

If you are referring to Update 23 (which is not an expansion), there is a chance that gear from the loot-box will be equal to that found from an instance.

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Ill see if I can find the dev quote on it, but basically the way I understood it is box gear is generally = to t1 gear drop with a slight chance to be 5x better.
What was not clear is, if 5x is hit is that better then t2 drop or t3?

I be curious by it but I think I am clear that I really have no issue with lootboxes and keys (I do have an issue if you have a gambling issue and ultimately think that is the best argument against boxes)

Change the color on lootbox drop items (not stats) and let the purist play their game, and casuals to play theirs? *shrug*

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Originally Posted by Rimenuir

.... And if you have no locks you'll grind it, OK, so why are you FOR locks? Because you have no self-control? If you're an adult, and that's your reason, then I suggest you log off the game for a while and sort your priorities.

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I just gave how I will play... nothing more. Wasn't comparing it to your play style or that of anyone else. Simply saying, this is how I would likely play the content given to me.
I am presenting to the developers, how I would play an unlock content. I also explained how I would play lock content.

Rest is not useful, appropriate or neccessary.

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Originally Posted by MAWorking

it but I think I am clear that I really have no issue with lootboxes and keys (I do have an issue if you have a gambling issue and ultimately think that is the best argument against boxes)...

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Which is probably why you keep butting heads with those that do. The gambling aspect of loot-boxes (which, if you are being genuine, cannot be debated) is just but one argument against the inclusion of loot-boxes. But, as you say, you have no issue with them.

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Originally Posted by Skyfoot

Which is probably why you keep butting heads with those that do. The gambling aspect of loot-boxes (which, if you are being genuine, cannot be debated) is just but one argument against the inclusion of loot-boxes. But, as you say, you have no issue with them.

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I am sincere about the gambling aspect. I can see people getting "hooked" but I think as they slowly dial down the drops from the boxes it is reducing the hook. Not to turn the thread, but eventually games will have to stop using them. (but, think of those phone games where, hey you can buy a new life, or new level for X dollars... is that a hook too? Gambling? <--- no need to answer, really do not want to derail the conversation, just food for thought)

I do get that I butt heads with those who have issue with them, but these forums are for sharing our thoughts on the beta shown to us. I am simply expressing my opinion.
I disagree with the pay to win analogy.
I think gambling is a better reason to remove them.
Is that a conflict? I think you can have both...


oooohhhh... complicated people! :-)
BTW, thank you for dialing it down some. I enjoy hearing/reading peoples opinion. I definitely do not have all the answers and I try to understand. I am an older gamer and I often think that is where the disconnect occurs. I wonder if young whippersnappers see things differently, (which they should) and why... live long learning.

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Originally Posted by MAWorking

1. I can see people getting "hooked" but I think as they slowly dial down the drops from the boxes it is reducing the hook.
2. I disagree with the pay to win analogy.

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1. But they don't dial it down. With Mordor, they kept dialing it up. In fact, they are still dialing it up.
2. By definition, if loot-boxes give you an in-game advantage or affect actual game-play they are "pay to win". If it was just cosmetics, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

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Originally Posted by Skyfoot

2. By definition, if loot-boxes give you an in-game advantage or affect actual game-play they are "pay to win". If it was just cosmetics, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

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There is a disconnect here. I can get a loot box via drops. I can get a key through actions. I spent zero dollars.

I get that people can buy keys.

Curious, would you be against or for only making loot boxes openable by VIPs with no key (or a token universal key that you get when you are a subscriber)?
Free players would have to buy a key or earn them via ingame actions.

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Originally Posted by Fraushgrish2

does anyone else find it hilarious that someone can just drop palantir info in the middle of the forums and at 3:13 on a work day no one has addressed it?

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I noticed it, and since it was over a month old information, none of it is really a surprise anymore since we are already testing it on Bullroarer. I would imagine that there are some raiders who are on Palantir and they share information with their kinmates on live servers about upcoming content and plan things before they even reach Bullroarer. That is simply human nature and not shocking at all to me. Raiders in particular are always looking for ways to be one step ahead of everyone else because of their competitive nature.

I personally find it more fun to wait for things to go on live servers and grapple with the puzzle of fight mechanics, like Throne Mumaks or Unbroken One. Why does everything need to be a race for titles? Sounds unnecessarily stressful to me.

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Originally Posted by MAWorking

I can get a loot box via drops. I can get a key through actions.

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Irrelevant. As long as the loot-boxes drop at a rate much higher than keys can be earned in-game (which is the case), and there is a store component, it is p2w.

So Ill ask again....

Curious, would you be against or for only making loot boxes openable by VIPs with no key (or a token universal key that you get when you are a subscriber)?
Free players would have to buy a key or earn them via ingame actions.

Are the loot boxes hooked up yet in the BR loot tables? I've killed between 300-400 mobs on landscape (both humanoid and beasts) and have yet to see one drop. Is the RNG just messing with me or are they only available in certain content? The mob kills were all in the 116-119 range.

Ive had a couple drop for me.

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Originally Posted by MAWorking

So Ill ask again....

Curious, would you be against or for only making loot boxes openable by VIPs with no key (or a token universal key that you get when you are a subscriber)?
Free players would have to buy a key or earn them via ingame actions.

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I'm for no loot-boxes, period. After 11 years of development to introduce them now is just...well, greedy and manipulative.

Remember, this thread is designed for you to give us feedback on the things you've seen on Bullroarer. This is not a thread to debate the nature of monetization in the video game industry, or provide your opinion about someone else's opinion.

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Originally Posted by MAWorking

There is a disconnect here. I can get a loot box via drops. I can get a key through actions. I spent zero dollars.

I get that people can buy keys.

Curious, would you be against or for only making loot boxes openable by VIPs with no key (or a token universal key that you get when you are a subscriber)?
Free players would have to buy a key or earn them via ingame actions.

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We are far beyond that.
Where is the pleasure to advance your character and to play with other players when the end game is to open a lootbox with a key acquired either with real money or after a tremendous amount of repeatable quests totally brain dead and not interesting at all ?
And I don't understand why some people get angry against those who want to remove the locks, since you don't want to play with the "elite", why would you care about the equity of gear server wide ?

Gear is not what separate the community in Lotro, it's the knowledge of their character, and we saw it since the Mordor, being over geared with raid like stats on your armor do not make you a better player.
You need to practice to become better and locks on instances prevent that.

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Originally Posted by Cordovan

Remember, this thread is designed for you to give us feedback on the things you've seen on Bullroarer. This is not a thread to debate the nature of monetization in the video game industry...

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And if the feedback is geared towards the further inclusion of more loot-boxes--as seen by builds on Bullroarer--it's not debatable or proper feedback? Are you basically saying that regardless of how many people complain that they don't want to see loot-boxes in this game, $$G is going to keep them in anyway?

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Originally Posted by Skyfoot

And if the feedback is geared towards the further inclusion of more loot-boxes--as seen by builds on Bullroarer--it's not debatable or proper feedback? Are you basically saying that regardless of how many people complain that they don't want to see loot-boxes in this game, $$G is going to keep them in anyway?

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Yes.

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Originally Posted by Cordovan

Remember, this thread is designed for you to give us feedback on the things you've seen on Bullroarer. This is not a thread to debate the nature of monetization in the video game industry, or provide your opinion about someone else's opinion.

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Ok, so lootboxes are in game, regardless of what we think of them. Can you tell me why the new level 116-120 boxes are dropping old Mordor rewards that have been in the game for almost a year? Also why when disenchanted are those items awarding OLD ash? It is a bug? I'll give feedback on that when I know for sure that it's not an error.

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Originally Posted by Cordovan

Remember, this thread is designed for you to give us feedback on the things you've seen on Bullroarer. This is not a thread to debate the nature of monetization in the video game industry, or provide your opinion about someone else's opinion.

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Make people WANT to spend money on your game, Don't force and beg us to spend money just to gear.

Give us what we ask for, no one is going to spend irl money to go through Mordor 2.0

Its basically theft at this point, $5 per essences, $15 per gear piece OR you can spend 1 month gearing out 1 toon

p2w'ing the gearing process is close to $300 or even more just from 115-120. This just shows that guys don't have the insensitive to even test or look at your own numbers

Disabling the mithril coin mailing was such a huge mistake that hurt the end-game players a lot. Its basically impossible to get a new toon to 120 cap with 5 rank 20 virtues instead you guys punish the players instead of fixing the issue that allowed codes to be stolen. I don't see anyone coming back for this update sorry, please perma ban this account so I can quit peacefully

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Originally Posted by Skyfoot

And if the feedback is geared towards the further inclusion of more loot-boxes--as seen by builds on Bullroarer--it's not debatable or proper feedback? Are you basically saying that regardless of how many people complain that they don't want to see loot-boxes in this game, $$G is going to keep them in anyway?

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Perfectly fine to discuss in a thread that isn't about direct feedback on your in-game experience on Bullroarer during the preview, except as it relates to your experience on Bullroarer this week (or perhaps last if relevant).

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Originally Posted by Cordovan

Remember, this thread is designed for you to give us feedback on the things you've seen on Bullroarer. This is not a thread to debate the nature of monetization in the video game industry, or provide your opinion about someone else's opinion.

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From what I've seen from Bullroarer is that BiS Essences are only dropping from Lootboxes, so... where can I discuss about that?? Your statement is contradicting a bit, because there is only monetization involved when it comes to new essences.

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Originally Posted by Cordovan

Perfectly fine to discuss in a thread that isn't about direct feedback on your in-game experience on Bullroarer during the preview, except as it relates to your experience on Bullroarer this week (or perhaps last if relevant).

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we have been giving you our feedback for 1+ year, we've been here for you guys still playing, some of us buying Mordor for $140 to support you guys, but what do we get in return? I think it would be fair if you guys spent 1 update working as hard as you can to listen to our (end-game players) feedback for all we have done to support you guys

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Originally Posted by MAWorking

So Ill ask again....

Curious, would you be against or for only making loot boxes openable by VIPs with no key (or a token universal key that you get when you are a subscriber)?
Free players would have to buy a key or earn them via ingame actions.

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This sounds close to how SWTOR handles this; subscribers there get an additional XP bar at endgame after hitting the level cap which awards a Command Crate (their version of a lootbox) when it fills up. Except there you can't buy these crates to open them at an accelerated pace like you can buy keys in LOTRO. If lootboxes were somehow limited in possible opening frequency in LOTRO there wouldn't really be an issue unless each box dropped a guaranteed 2,000 Ash or something crazy like that. The issue is buying keys and opening boxes gets you BiS gear quicker than running the content does, even though that BiS itself doesn't directly drop from the lootbox.

Quick note: SWTOR is published by EA, and even they have a less shady monetization plan going on than LOTRO does. That should be a wake up call...