Beorning Update Incoming

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Originally Posted by Hildilas

Answered you in the other thread, too. But this is the official Beo Forum so.

1. Rks don't just "heal"/help with hps. They Support one target actually better than a mini even though the hps is lower.
2. Minis are bugged and some skills were nerfed too much. Minis are crying for a fix right now and not because of the Beo.
3. The Beo Hots esp the Tier 3 Hot generates extremely high crits. Tbh they could just take away the Tier 3 Hot of Encouraging Roar and the one target HPS would be lower.
Also - even though I really love it, the % heal that Comes with Bond of Trust is not needed anymore and should maybe be changed to sth else or nerfed to 1% or whatever.

@vastin: pls do not nerf the "whole" Thing. Step by step. There is a bit of time until the T3 Raid. T2 will be easily possible with or without a "not nerfed" Beo.

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Originally Posted by jomanjy

agreed with most of what you said.

i am not sure if you play RK or not but if so you'd notice RK bubbles didn't scale well at all for tanks. in T3 it is literally 1 hit from mobs and with it going off the -10% incoming damage/+10% inc healing goes away as well so you can basically keep only 1 defensive buff which is RSoW (-10% incoming damage). what makes RK is good atm -imo- is their heals are scaled good and they have a broken skill called fates which is -60% inc damage with a 1m cd and it should be nerfed tbh.

and i don't want beornings to be nerfed like minis. they were useless for so long and they needed huge buffs to be good. i just want it to be close to other healing classes not doing 10k+ hps difference.

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RK does not have any defensive cooldown besides fates, so they can be compared with beornings.
Also just because RK has a broken skill, it doesn't mean beorning heals must be broken aswell.

In my opinion heals should be like this: RK healer should be the best ST healer, Minstrel should be the best AOE healer and Beorning should be the best burst healer.

I also think Minstrel changes need to revert back, because at this moment minstrel is completely useless in any content compared EVEN to blue line captains!

Since Vastin could probably use feedback at different level brackets. Did some GA/Fornost instances on level at lvl 30-32 brackets as yellow line heals on the legendary servers. With the limited heal skills available at that level bracket, it kept me on my toes and wrath moved around a lot. I needed to use ferocious roar a lot to keep wrath up. So just keep in mind that lower levels feel spot on for heal builds and hopefully keep it that way with any changes that might be done next.

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Originally Posted by JiiPee

I just wanna point out that beorning damage reduction abilities aren't powerfull as people think they are. Reason is that they just tanks mastery %, not real outgoing damage so how effective they are, it depends of mob mastery %. Also they are not reliable because they have damage element with them and they can get BPE, so if you want them to be reliable, you need to slot lot of finesse. And this finesse issue goes to beez, armour crush etc.
So it's better to use just self buffs in compare because anything what goes outside requires luck because I don't think any tank slot enough finesse to get buffs out reliable. I have on RK now almost 90k finesse and I am still getting too many resists so new finesse requirement for T3 is prolly close what we had at 115 cap so for tactical skills over 100k (I had 120k on rk) before this latest patch my rk had 73k finesse and it seemed to be ok, but this patch pushed finesse requirement way up.

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To your first point regarding damage reduction skills, if you're referring to debuffs like Weakening Blow (Slam blue-line debuff) and Piercing Roar, then I definitely agree. As they're additive with mastery, they are fairly underwhelming. I only trait the latter because it costs no wrath, it's usable in bear-form, I have the trait points, and there's nothing else I'd rather get. Whenever I get around to finishing the Black Book on my bear for the 91st trait point, I'll end up getting the slow attached to Piercing Roar most likely, but even then it won't be too helpful in many situations as I hate kiting.

Regarding debuffs such as Armour Crush and Bees being resisted/avoided, I have a combination of reasons for traiting (and thus using) them. For starters, you need to invest points somewhere in the traitline, and they are partly a point-sink to get further in the tree. When it comes to actually using them, Wrath regen is pretty strong in blue-line at the moment (which is a really good thing) and I figure why not use some of it? Personally, I've always favored more support-heavy styles of gameplay (hence my LM being my main), so if I can adopt this type of gameplay on my Beorning as well, then I will. Even if they do get resisted/avoided often, it doesn't necessarily make these debuffs detrimental to use since Wrath is so easily recoverable, so I just view it as "icing on the cake" so-to-speak when they actually hit. That said, I haven't done t3 yet since avoidances were broken with u23.1.7, so we will see what happens when I finally get around to it.

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Originally Posted by Pavlin

Bee color is personal choise. But i pick blue over yellow because of some reasons. First is more cheap. Second i do prefer to have slow attack on add instead to have my yellow bees useles only because i have support class in fellow who have similar skill. What if you have burg lm or yellow bear in fellow ? Stil agree yellow are more useful ones but this hardly justify the price of SP.You have armour crush wich increase target dmg take as 15% and in the same time you have spend 6 points in bee to get 12% phisical dmg taken incrase on target? Why? They dont stack. Must be some logic i miss.
I see you link this build as aoe one https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...nShot00003.jpg. but i see nothing aoe in it. Anyway.
You pick nature mend and hardened hearth? how often you go to human form to use them? So you sacrafice 30% armor and 20% to get like 10k heal and some wrath from hh which you dont even need as a blue bear. Or you starving from wrath? Then you do it wrong. Why you skip quick recovery? Its changed in this patch and now is worth sloting. You go down in yellow to pick st range stun from leveling roar but in the same time you skip red aoe stun from lumber? You alse skip 5% crit and 15% thrash dmg/ your spamable skill. And all this ONLY to pick one combat ress? What about Healing Increase trait? With this build most/all/ of your heals come from HoTs which in best case are like 4k tick. Why you increase them with 10% ? for 400 more heal per tick ...?
If you want self heals, slot quick recovery + crit chanse/ this make your initial tick of recuperate much stronger and when it crits its like 15k heal. And you usualy spam it.
Phisical mitigation increase 3/5? Wont even coment that.
Is hard but i`l pretend i didnt see the skiping of hide and the only useful aoe taunt you have. Is hard but i try.............

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Lot to unpack here. First off, yeah, I guess I mislabeled my trait lines. Regardless, whichever has Thunderous Roar traited is the AoE line. Whichever has Overbearing is for single target bosses.

As I said in a previous post, yes, Bees color is a personal choice. I just prefer the offensive debuffs as opposed to the defensive ones since attack duration debuffs do nothing against scripted attacks that most bosses have.

Quick Recovery is a fairly useless trait honestly. If you invest 2/2 points in it, it increases what (for me) is a 3.8k heal to a 4.6k heal. Rather than add 900 morale to a heal for 2 points, there are other things I'd rather pick up. If the buff applied to initial and HoT, then I would trait it, or if it increased the initial by a more reasonable amount.

Bees (yellow, at least) and Armour Crush do actually stack; I just tested it now. Even so, you can use either situationally. Armour Crush benefits everyone, Bees only physical damage although to a larger extent than Armour Crush.

I don't see how investing points in Hardened Heart would be useless but not invest points in In Harm's Way, but OK. Regardless, I use both as a point-sink to get further in the trait tree. I don't need the Biting Edge taunt or the Slam debuff (and both are man-form, so as you pointed out, fairly useless). Also, I don't want to fully trait Sacrifice, as this build is for a boss fight situation and I don't want to kill the tank (myself) while trying to save a Hunt*rd or something.
With regards to Nature's Mend, likewise, it's a point-sink to get far enough to pick up Overbearing. Besides, in situations where I may die and get rez'd while tanking, Hardened Heart is still useful to generate Wrath quickly to get up and running again.

I get Leveling Roar from yellow rather than the AoE knockdown from Lumber again because it's a point-sink to get further into yellow. Everything else in yellow up to that point that I didn't trait is not very useful in the situation that the line is built for. It's really just an arbitrary choice.

"And all this ONLY to pick up one combat ress?" Yes. In-combat rez's are very useful, especially if it's the tank (most survivable group member) who has it. This one in particular is on a 3min cooldown, so very respectable. I'd rather see the rez either completely unavailable when not spec'd yellow or have an 8-10min cooldown when not in yellow, but so long as it's available, I will take advantage of it when possible.

Traiting the 10% Healing Increase from yellow makes Recuperate a stronger overall heal than Quick Recovery does, at least for me. Granted it's more points invested, but it's not wasted points as I need them to get to Overbearing. Here's my heal values as followed with each traited: (I can provide screenshot if you don't believe me)

	Recup. (base)	With QR (2/2)	With HI (5/5)
Initial	3128	4123	3327
Low HoT	2189	2189	2538
High HoT	3128	3128	3625
Low Total	3128+6(2189)=16262	4123+6(2189)=17257	3128+6(2538)=18356
High Total	3128+6(3128)=21896	4123+6(3128)=22891	3327+6(3625)=25077

As you can see, both the low and high-end total heals from Recuperate are better (at least using my stat numbers) when using Healing Increase than when using Quick Recovery.

If I had more points, I would trait Physical Mitigation Increase more, but I don't at the moment. When I finally get around to finishing the Black Book and getting my final trait point on this toon, it'll be at 4/5, and I think 1% loss is acceptable in the process of picking up an in-combat rez.

To get Overbearing, you have to skip Thickened Hide and Thunderous Roar. This build is for a single-target boss fight though, so Thunderous Roar is next to useless there, and Thickened hide, while nice is not a mandatory skill. It's just my personal preference to have a setup like this right now.

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Originally Posted by Pavlin

Second build https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...nShot00002.jpg. Literaly the same, if not even worse
You again put meaningles points in hardened hearth. You again get ranged st stun skiping the aoe one. You again have 10% healing increase / 10% of nothing is stil nothing/
You again have debuf from bees/ which dont stack with one from blue line/ and all this is to get 5% ST dmg reduce for 12 seconds every 30 sec. Yes is 5% because you have 15% from armour crush.
Atleast you slot hide and roar this time.

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As stated above, Hardened Heart is really just a point dump. I've actually toyed with the build more though since posting, and moved those points to fully trait Sacrifice in blue (In Harm's Way and All On The Line).

Also as stated above, Healing Increase is better for your self-heals than Quick Recovery (or at least for mine).

Again, I explained my Bees choice above.

And yes, I traited Thickened Hide and Thunderous Roar for my AoE build because I'm not trying to invest too heavily into yellow. This one is more of a general build.

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Originally Posted by Pavlin

Its admirable that you spend lots of mithril to unlock 3 extra trait trees. Is not bad to experiment with builds. Now you need practice.
If you just undust your bear, i play mine from release date. So instead of getting it as a fight, try to see the advices i give you. I`m far from the best beorings in this game, but i`m very close behind them.

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There's no need to be so condescending. You've explained your reasoning for what you do, and I've explained mine. Can't we do this respectfully? And yes, I have multiple trait lines unlocked because I enjoy having multiple builds to tailor to different situations. I don't see why this should be a bad thing. Because of my experience playing my bear (not a lack of it), I found having different set-ups to be very helpful in different situations.

If you must know, I have leveled my bear on and off since they were first created, finally getting it to cap during the Throne of the Dread Terror raid and using it in there from time to time on t2c with a few different groups on my server (Landy). I've played it fairly steadily ever since. I'm not trying to fight with you, I'm just discussing different ways of traiting and explaining my reasoning for it while also stating that I believe the yellow capstone Overbearing needs one of two things to happen to it: either it has to be made a yellow sidebar trait, and therefore unattainable from blue-line, or increase the cooldown to 8-10 minutes when not in yellow-line. If I came across as combative in any way, then I'm sorry, that wasn't my intention.

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Originally Posted by Argira

In my opinion heals should be like this: RK healer should be the best ST healer, Minstrel should be the best AOE healer and Beorning should be the best burst healer.

I also think Minstrel changes need to revert back, because at this moment minstrel is completely useless in any content compared EVEN to blue line captains!

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Why shouldn't all have the same ~% hps on singletarget and Group? All classes have the skillset for this. Theoretically speaking...

Woah you really think that the blue captain is better than the mini? The last time I checked the blue captains heals were stuck at lvl 95 or sth. Actually it didn't make a different If you took a blue or yellow captain^^....
+ minis are not useless at all. Minis are healing T3 Content, too.

And I'm sry but everyone should admit that the T3 Hot of ER is a bit too high. The krits of that Hot are sometimes higher than a main mini heal....

Why doesn't Encouraging Roar grant Wrath? I was playing in Yellow Tree today, and was trying to heal the Tank, but I had to keep jumping into the fight to build Wrath so I could continue to heal. Vastin said, "...the wrath REALLY floods in during combat..." Well, I can tell you that in one case that is not at all true.

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Originally Posted by zipfile

Do you really need more avoidance? On top of that, they get a ton of mitigations, on top of which they get extra morale and armour in bear form, on top of which you also want 50% avoidance?

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I totally forgot what guardian gets by traiting blue.

https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Guardian%27s_Defence

All kind of cookies, including increased armour. So yes, beorning gets 20% more armour but when you add up your shield, I'm quite sure that guardian is still ahead on pure armour value.
And as you have already proven yourself, guardian is also ahead of BPE values, not to forget that guardian can trait +5% for block and parry, beorning has nothing to boost static avoidance and very little to actively boost it.

Oh and lets not forget https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Adaptability even more cookies for guardian when it comes to avoidance. Yes it's not much but everything counts.

I just wanted to bring this up because beorning 30% armour buff has been such a big deal and everyone has forget what guardian gets. Only way to make fair compare is to put all cookies to the table.

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Originally Posted by Vastin

Thrash generating wrath obviously makes a pretty big difference and perhaps the two together are sufficient to explain the much higher wrath generation - but I'm still dubious. I think there's another source or bonus that I overlooked that got buffed by one of my changes that I need to re-examine, because yeah, the wrath REALLY floods in during combat. I fixed a bunch of bugs with other skills not benefiting correctly from things like legacy wrath bonuses, so maybe all together it is just adding up too much.

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thrash change itself has the biggest impact in my opinion:

In old times: tier 1 + tier 2 + tier 3 = 30 wrath cost
now: tier 1 + tier 2 + tier 3 = 15 wrath gain

E.g., if we have 50 wrath, after 3 hits with thrash in old times we would finish with 20 wrath, now we finish with 65 wrath. That´s 45 wrath difference.

And then there is chance that skills which cost wrath will gain 3 wrath. It´s not about spending cost and gaining 3 back, it is neglecting the cost and gaining three. E.g., the bash costs now 20 wrath. If the legacy triggers, we pay 0 and get 3, so we end on +3 instead of -17.

Has no one else noticed unexpected extra wrath gain when you're using attacks/skills? Even without the LI legacy I seem to be benefiting from the chance to return wrath and it's applying to wrath builders and auto-attacks as well not just the wrath spenders.

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Originally Posted by JiiPee

I totally forgot what guardian gets by traiting blue.

https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Guardian%27s_Defence

All kind of cookies, including increased armour.

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https://i.imgur.com/5gBbQrc.png

Highlighted what actually matters, rest is irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by JiiPee

So yes, beorning gets 20% more armour but when you add up your shield, I'm quite sure that guardian is still ahead on pure armour value.

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Only hope token present, /w heavy shield and (in)famous GD trait
https://i.imgur.com/vIVZPxC.png

Here are values without shield and GD
https://i.imgur.com/FMeyOGC.png

Let's use the same value for a Beorning and see how it stacks up:
Morale: 213131
Armour: 184600

So, 6k less armour, but a ton more morale. Again, only hope token present.
This trait alone makes Beornings much better at tanking stronger enemies that don't care about BPE ratings, which have been plenty of ever since Osgiliath.

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Originally Posted by JiiPee

And as you have already proven yourself, guardian is also ahead of BPE values, not to forget that guardian can trait +5% for block and parry, beorning has nothing to boost static avoidance and very little to actively boost it.

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Which again, is irrelevant, given how many enemies have special attacks that are actually damaging, list of the most dangerous ones I have written elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by JiiPee

Oh and lets not forget https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Adaptability even more cookies for guardian when it comes to avoidance. Yes it's not much but everything counts.

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Counter-quote:

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Originally Posted by zipfile

• Adaptability bonus is far too low
• Adaptability Block bonus gets removed when you use War-Chant
• Adaptability doesn't work on partial hits
• Adaptability doesn't add and tier up it's bonuses properly when hit (there appears to be a hidden timer of between 3-4 seconds between uptiers)

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Taken from the bug list I keep updating in hopes of a spring cleaning, I guess, which can be found here.

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Originally Posted by JiiPee

I just wanted to bring this up because beorning 30% armour buff has been such a big deal and everyone has forget what guardian gets. Only way to make fair compare is to put all cookies to the table.

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Stuff above.

2 years ago we brought our old, rundown car to the garage. We pointed out that the windows didn't roll down all the way, the radio would randomly switch between stations, the headlights blink SOS in morse code whenever you turn them on and going over 60MPH would cause the front-left wheel to fall off. We then left the car with the garage, hoping they'd be able to fix the issues and getting her running properly.

2 years later the garage called us back and showed us the old car. They'd poked holes through the windows so we could get that airflow we wanted, reduced the number of stations on the radio so it wouldn't switch so frequently, set the headlights to be on 24/7 so we could always see and chained the front-left wheel to the passenger seat so it couldn't get away from us anymore.

Sometimes I guess you just have to give up, dump the car in a salvage yard and find a new mechanic.

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Originally Posted by zipfile

Let's use the same value for a Beorning and see how it stacks up:
Morale: 213131
Armour: 184600

So, 6k less armour, but a ton more morale. Again, only hope token present.
This trait alone makes Beornings much better at tanking stronger enemies that don't care about BPE ratings, which have been plenty of ever since Osgiliath.



Which again, is irrelevant, given how many enemies have special attacks that are actually damaging, list of the most dangerous ones I have written elsewhere.

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You are all a time trying to proof how irrelevant BPE is. If thats truth like you are putting it out, then we all can agree that all tanks and in fact all classes should loss ability to BPE, would that be good?
Because again in your own words, BPE is irrelevant.

If we have some braindead fight like Fingar where BPE didn't matter, it sure does matter on lot of other fights. It's perfectly fine that we have some special attacks what you cannot BPE but not all attacks are like that. Abyss boss 1 BPE did matter, in CoS BPE did matter, new instances BPE does matter or please go tank TG without shield and let me know how it went.
Also even that crit def may be irrelevant for raid, at least it has been on few raid now, it usually isn't irrelevant for other instances. So again that guardian +10% does matter.

You cannot just think everything raid in mind because again, there is other stuff outside of raid, this game is not just raiding, in fact right now there ain't no raid to run.

Now lets take more cookies in because you just keep ignoring the facts. What if guardian have picked right race, example dorf? It gets +1 phys mit, so dorf guardian takes always 3,33% less damage than other race guardian. Is this also unfair? Should dorf guardian lose their adventage?

How about WH +2% phys mit? I'm sure that awesome guardian like you does know that sometimes you can even pop WH pre-fight because there is skill reset when fight start, yes? Or you can pop it anyway because most of the time things only heat up after few minutes and you most likely have WH off cd when you may really need it.
And hey wasn't it actually you was telling how useless WH is? That if tank ever need to use it on raid, healers are bad? Quite irony here. So if its useless in your opinion, then you should pop it start of the fight because it makes you take 6,67% less phys damage.

Okey so 70% vs 75% mitigation difference is 16,67% less damage for beorning. Yes that sounds much. But when we add thouse dorf and WH buffs,
73 vs 75 is 7,41%
72 vs 75 is 10,71%

Maybe we should also look about redirect? 35% damage cut is quite big deal and I'm sure that awesome guardian like you can time use of redirect when you are going to get big hit right?
And did I already say that beorning guarded mitigation buff is not 100% uptime, however it does tier also down so you do not fully lose it if it doesn't proc or you don't refresh it. If there is fight where you don't get proc, you end up hopping man form every 10sec because buff last 12sec and when you hop to man form, you will lose armour buff and morale buff. Armour buff you get back when you go bear form, but morale buff must be again healed up.

EDIT: Also it seems that you should check your math because I have on guardian 186624 armour and if I remove shield, hop to red line, I am at 132779 if I multiply that by 1,3 I get 172613 what beorning would get with that same gear. That is over 14k difference and if I had teal shield from instance, that cap would increase around 20k, I think you can do a math on your own how many essences that is. Lets say 2 to be generous toward guardian. Thats 8770 morale that guardian can catch up that beorning 20% morale buff, what I again repeat is not 100% uptime if you need to hop back to man form.

A thing that as been bothering me is the use of Ferocious Roar with the set bonus of Sharpened Claws (+100% crit change of your next attack) only in man form.

Assuming that now the most common rotation of Claw beorning is generating around 60-80 wrath as man form and then make the transition to bear form to use trash/bash and finally delivering execute at full wrath, repeating the cycle. Since the Ferocius Roar has almost the same cooldown as the highest damaging skills: Execute and Relentless Claws, shouldn't the Sharpened Claws buff be paired with these two abilities?

I find it awkward while i am skin changed into a bear with Execute or Relentless Claws nearly refreshed and then having to change to man form, using ferocious roar to get the buff (which btw has a destincly bear sound!) and then switch back to bear so i can finally use execute/relentless claws with the crit bonus.

Besides you get a sweet start up wrath generation, right after using Execute.

Another thing that I found out is that when i use Ferocius Roar and then Relentless Claws, is that every single hit during that channel critically hits, not just the first one, which makes it even more appealing to use it right after Ferocious Roar.

Am I wrong? Am i missing something?

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Originally Posted by Ornelas

Another thing that I found out is that when i use Ferocius Roar and then Relentless Claws, is that every single hit during that channel critically hits, not just the first one, which makes it even more appealing to use it right after Ferocious Roar.

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I saw this for the first time the other day while testing out some of the bee swarm DoTs - but I didn't (intentionally) make any changes to the beorning's DoTs that would cause them to become all or nothing crits. Has anyone seen this on other classes DoTs recently?

I need to figure out if there was an unexpected code change potentially affecting all DoTs, or if there is a specific Beorning buff/ability that is triggering this effect.

-Vastin

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Originally Posted by Vastin

I saw this for the first time the other day while testing out some of the bee swarm DoTs - but I didn't (intentionally) make any changes to the beorning's DoTs that would cause them to become all or nothing crits. Has anyone seen this on other classes DoTs recently?

I need to figure out if there was an unexpected code change potentially affecting all DoTs, or if there is a specific Beorning buff/ability that is triggering this effect.

-Vastin

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Not in my hunter but Hunter dots are obsolete anyway ...
My warden dots seem to work properly as well.

But tbh this Combo of skills on Beo got us krit hits with every hit of the AOE damage skill (only know the German names..edit: Relentless Maul) before update I think.. remember talking to someone about this. At least there was a chance.

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Originally Posted by Vastin

I saw this for the first time the other day while testing out some of the bee swarm DoTs - but I didn't (intentionally) make any changes to the beorning's DoTs that would cause them to become all or nothing crits. Has anyone seen this on other classes DoTs recently?

I need to figure out if there was an unexpected code change potentially affecting all DoTs, or if there is a specific Beorning buff/ability that is triggering this effect.

-Vastin

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He means "Relentless Maul" the channeled AOE skill, DoTs are currently unaffected by Ferocious Roar.

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Originally Posted by Vastin

I saw this for the first time the other day while testing out some of the bee swarm DoTs - but I didn't (intentionally) make any changes to the beorning's DoTs that would cause them to become all or nothing crits. Has anyone seen this on other classes DoTs recently?

I need to figure out if there was an unexpected code change potentially affecting all DoTs, or if there is a specific Beorning buff/ability that is triggering this effect.

-Vastin

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It's not the case on my hunter (but I think bleeds are 'broken' anyway since a patch a few weeks ago, because they do less damage than the tooltip says, even on a training dummy 45 Levels below, but that's another matter :D)

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Originally Posted by Vastin

I saw this for the first time the other day while testing out some of the bee swarm DoTs - but I didn't (intentionally) make any changes to the beorning's DoTs that would cause them to become all or nothing crits. Has anyone seen this on other classes DoTs recently?

I need to figure out if there was an unexpected code change potentially affecting all DoTs, or if there is a specific Beorning buff/ability that is triggering this effect.

-Vastin

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This applies to LM's as well with Nature's Fury, when the initial hit crits all the subsequent dot's crit. Not sure about the lightning procs though. However, this has been the case for a long time.

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Originally Posted by Vastin

I saw this for the first time the other day while testing out some of the bee swarm DoTs - but I didn't (intentionally) make any changes to the beorning's DoTs that would cause them to become all or nothing crits. Has anyone seen this on other classes DoTs recently?

I need to figure out if there was an unexpected code change potentially affecting all DoTs, or if there is a specific Beorning buff/ability that is triggering this effect.

-Vastin

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Not a DOT but the champion heal skill, fight on, on crit also all HoT impulses crit.

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Originally Posted by Vastin

I saw this for the first time the other day while testing out some of the bee swarm DoTs - but I didn't (intentionally) make any changes to the beorning's DoTs that would cause them to become all or nothing crits. Has anyone seen this on other classes DoTs recently?

I need to figure out if there was an unexpected code change potentially affecting all DoTs, or if there is a specific Beorning buff/ability that is triggering this effect.

-Vastin

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Hello,
Any runekeepers can confirm?
I thought Smoldering Wrath skill would be a great comparison, but since it's a channeled skill and not a DoT, I'm probably wrong about that.

on live today (u23.1.8)
I found that out of the five hits of smouldering wrath, 2 were crits and 3 were regular hits.

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Originally Posted by Vastin

I saw this for the first time the other day while testing out some of the bee swarm DoTs - but I didn't (intentionally) make any changes to the beorning's DoTs that would cause them to become all or nothing crits. Has anyone seen this on other classes DoTs recently?

I need to figure out if there was an unexpected code change potentially affecting all DoTs, or if there is a specific Beorning buff/ability that is triggering this effect.

-Vastin

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a similar outcome occurs when a blue captain gives his rk song brother 100% crit chance on tact skills followed by the rk using a channel skill called smouldering wrath. every smouldering crits.

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Originally Posted by Antophant

He means "Relentless Maul" the channeled AOE skill, DoTs are currently unaffected by Ferocious Roar.

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Yes I do! My mistake, sorry

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Originally Posted by Vastin

I saw this for the first time the other day while testing out some of the bee swarm DoTs - but I didn't (intentionally) make any changes to the beorning's DoTs that would cause them to become all or nothing crits. Has anyone seen this on other classes DoTs recently?

I need to figure out if there was an unexpected code change potentially affecting all DoTs, or if there is a specific Beorning buff/ability that is triggering this effect.

-Vastin

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This has been around since the Beorning class was released. Relentless Maul always gets auto crits on all ticks if used right after Ferocious Roar (with the Red line setbonus trait Sharpened Claws, of course). Whether or not it is WAI, I don't know -- but rest assured it's not being caused by any change you made.

There are some other skills in the game that behave oddly with crits (such as RK's Combustion, which either crits on all targets or crits on none of them, or Burglar's Cunning Attack where using Aim will cause all following ticks of the bleed to crit). Might be worth looking into if you have the time, but I'd say there are more pressing issues in terms of class balance :p

Other than Relentless Maul, the only other Beorning skill I've seen with that all crit behaviour is Composure.

I think it's part of what makes it so strong since you go from 5% per tick to ~6.75% and, since all 8 are guaranteed at that higher level, it means the overall amount healed jumps from 40% to ~54% of your morale. Red line is also where we have our highest crit % so it's a pretty common event.

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Originally Posted by B749

This has been around since the Beorning class was released. Relentless Maul always gets auto crits on all ticks if used right after Ferocious Roar (with the Red line setbonus trait Sharpened Claws, of course). Whether or not it is WAI, I don't know -- but rest assured it's not being caused by any change you made.

There are some other skills in the game that behave oddly with crits (such as RK's Combustion, which either crits on all targets or crits on none of them, or Burglar's Cunning Attack where using Aim will cause all following ticks of the bleed to crit). Might be worth looking into if you have the time, but I'd say there are more pressing issues in terms of class balance :p

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Can confirm that this is nothing new, relentless maul has always worked like this in red.

Ah, very well. At least I didn't break it with the latest update. ;)

In that case I'll leave well enough alone for the time being.

-Vastin