Lifetime Account Members Thread

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Originally Posted by GothicNosferatu

Problem is I have some experience with F2P games, and trust me, the "optional" items are not very optional. When they add items to the store that give a distinct advantage (i.e. extra weapon gem sockets, extra trait slots, ability to equip main-hand items in the offhand, etc) to the game and your choice is to pay $5-$25 or kill 6,000,000 monsters with a game time investment of YEARS, the players will dish out the dollars.

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Still optional though. Optional means "not required". You forgot the third choice, which is to not acquire the new item.

If they let you purchase the Symbol of Celebrimbor with turbine points, it would still be entirely and completely optional. Yes, some players would feel compelled to buy it, but it's entirely their own choice. The game is perfectly playable without out. Maybe some day some kinship will require owning a 2nd age to join their inflated ranks, but there will be other kinships who do not. You don't need to be the best, you don't need to meet other people's expectations, you could just play the game and have fun instead.

This is like real life. You have a personal choice to avoid spending more money than your income allows, a choice to not max out credit cards, a choice to not dip into your retirement savings to take a nice vacation trip, etc. Treat these in game items like real life luxury items - things that you don't need and can do without, but you can treat yourselves to them now and then if you're responsible with your budget.

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Originally Posted by GothicNosferatu

The difference between and Expansion and F2P is huge. When I pay for an expansion, I have ALL of the features and benefits that every other player has. The playfield remains the same for everybody for a reasonable fixed amount of dollars. With F2P, all bets are off. They can and will add items that give a substantial advantage in game that you will have to buy, most likely per character. This can and will end up costing a substantial amount of money in order to maintain a competitive edge in the game. As lifetime members, I feel we should get something for our investment to help minimize the need to spend excess dollars just to keep our game play on par with the competitive edge as it develops.

You are still rationalizing that what we paid for Lifetime membership as some sort of pre-paid card service that has now run out of funds. This is not what we paid for or invested in. And the gripe is that the business model has now changed and we are just thrown into the mix. This is what is unfair about this change. I have several lifetime memberships and have never seen something like this occur before.

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So lets turn this around. As a monthly subscriber, who paid for several years now, I still have to fork out $10 a month for the same access you have with no monthly bill. Forget your investment, long term I paid more into the game. Now I have $10 less a month that I can spend being competitive against you. The premium guy, since they don't get 500 points a month, is down 500 points when compared to you.

So who has the advantage here in competing?

If you want to purchase a 1,500 point item it costs your 500 free points + $10 (assuming 1 point = 1 cent). Your down $10 for the month.

If I want to purchase the item I pay the same price as you +$10 for that months subscription just to access the game. I'm down $20 for the month.

If the premium guy wants the item it costs them $15.00 in points. Their down $15 for the month.

So yes, if your talking fair competition, you have the advantage. You get the widget for less in the long run.

Oh, and if your able to log into the game, you got EXACTLY what you paid for. No monthly bill, access to the game. "I Win" button Not Included! Somehow you have this notion that Turbine values the $200 you spent more than the $200 the other guy spends. Why should the Premium or VIP shell out more real cash for something you desire? You get it free or for less while they pay both to support the game and for added options? How is that fair in any way?

Having 2 Lifetime accounts, I think we have it pretty good under the new system.

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Originally Posted by Mark_J

So if they buy something like a gold cap removal or additional character slot from the store they are automatically upgraded to Premium???

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No, they are upgraded when they purchase points by spending cash. Using the store doesn't upgrade the status; giving actual money to Turbine does.

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Originally Posted by Lohi

No, they are upgraded when they purchase points by spending cash. Using the store doesn't upgrade the status; giving actual money to Turbine does.

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Exactly!

Premium just means you spent some real life money on something. The status of that Premium account depends on what you purchase when the store is open as well as what a VIP converted to Premium purchased in the past.

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Originally Posted by Lohi

Still optional though. Optional means "not required". You forgot the third choice, which is to not acquire the new item.

If they let you purchase the Symbol of Celebrimbor with turbine points, it would still be entirely and completely optional. Yes, some players would feel compelled to buy it, but it's entirely their own choice. The game is perfectly playable without out. Maybe some day some kinship will require owning a 2nd age to join their inflated ranks, but there will be other kinships who do not. You don't need to be the best, you don't need to meet other people's expectations, you could just play the game and have fun instead.

This is like real life. You have a personal choice to avoid spending more money than your income allows, a choice to not max out credit cards, a choice to not dip into your retirement savings to take a nice vacation trip, etc. Treat these in game items like real life luxury items - things that you don't need and can do without, but you can treat yourselves to them now and then if you're responsible with your budget.

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First my "life choice" here was to be a lifetime member to a subscription based game. Since they are changing their business model to F2P, I have some concerns and feel entitled to a little something extra.

My concern here is not the optional social items. It is the items that give a distinct and obvious advantage.

An example:

When you're pvp'ing and some guy who has bought the 80,000 point tome that gives him 4x the hp, the 50,000 point tome that gives him 3x DPS, the 25,000 point tome that adds 10 to all stats, burning 4x ammo and using the "see stealth" tomes like they are candy chain-kills you back down to rank 1, how long do you think you will play the game if you're not willing to drop the $175 dollars to be competitive?

Taking scenarios like this into account, and you see the whole lifetime subscription deal becomes pretty pointless.

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Originally Posted by borked

Technically correct, I guess, from a certain perspective. But to more complete, you have to admit that these are names that ALREADY happen. I still shudder at my friend's toon name BLADESOFGLORY.



Fair enough. You have obviously made a conscious decision to play LotRO with only one character, restricted that character only to the 3 starter areas and to only the epic arcs outside of those areas, restricted your crafting, not allowed yourself to post to the auction house, restricted your use of email and chat, not allowed yourself to pvmp, not allowed yourself any significant amount of gold... (on and on)

In this case, yes, you are right. You are getting royally screwed in this deal, and I am very sorry for that. I am all for people playing the game how THEY want to play it. I hate people that preach only the **right** way to play it. You have chosen a different, but just as valid, playstyle, and are totally getting borked by this.

My apologies if this sounds sarcastic. I may still be stinging from you not only bringing up the other game, as my black bars will never heal, but the comparison is such a leap that I sprained my brain just trying to make it with you.

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Originally Posted by Preshous88

Take the first three letters out of assumption and that is what your makin of your self by assuming.

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hahaha hes an upmtion what does that even mean
(sorry i know this was a while ago but i couldn't help myself)

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Originally Posted by nolesrule

500 pts per month for use in the store.

Lifetimers get the exact same benefits as subscribers, without having to fork out any money.

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Problem is when the subscribers figures out that after subscribing and buying the points needed to be competitive is too much, he just UNSUBSCRIBES and goes on to play another game.

We are just stuck in the dismal situation that Turbine is leaving us.

So give us something for our investment and loyalty, like a permanent discount from the store.

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Originally Posted by GothicNosferatu

The difference between and Expansion and F2P is huge. When I pay for an expansion, I have ALL of the features and benefits that every other player has. The playfield remains the same for everybody for a reasonable fixed amount of dollars. With F2P, all bets are off. They can and will add items that give a substantial advantage in game that you will have to buy, most likely per character. This can and will end up costing a substantial amount of money in order to maintain a competitive edge in the game. As lifetime members, I feel we should get something for our investment to help minimize the need to spend excess dollars just to keep our game play on par with the competitive edge as it develops.

You are still rationalizing that what we paid for Lifetime membership as some sort of pre-paid card service that has now run out of funds. This is not what we paid for or invested in. And the gripe is that the business model has now changed and we are just thrown into the mix. This is what is unfair about this change. I have several lifetime memberships and have never seen something like this occur before.

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You paid for a lifetime subscription. You still have a lifetime subscription. You purchased a convenience when you bought a lifetime subscription. If you meant to invest in Turbine, well, you actually couldn't because until it was bought by WB, it was privately held. You still can't invest directly in Turbine because you'd now have to buy WB stock, which would only be a indirect investment. You have no stockholder rights or investment rights. You have what you bought--a lifetime subscription.

The ground rules are changing for everyone. Everyone is in exactly the same "mix". Except that because of your lifetime subscription you get 500 free points a month that give you a competitive advantage over everyone else who must pay twice for their points, a subscription rate and the cost of the points.

Have a cookie.

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Originally Posted by GothicNosferatu

Problem is when the subscribers figures out that after subscribing and buying the points needed to be competitive is too much, he just UNSUBSCRIBES and goes on to play another game.

We are just stuck in the dismal situation that Turbine is leaving us.

So give us something for our investment and loyalty, like a permanent discount from the store.

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Okay, now you are just silly.

I take my cookie back.

Also if turbine lets us looking to buy a lifetime sub from lifers who are to distraught over free to play to play a game that they have enjoyed for 2+ years :D

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Originally Posted by GothicNosferatu

When you're pvp'ing and some guy who has bought the 80,000 point tome that gives him 4x the hp, the 50,000 point tome that gives him 3x DPS, the 25,000 point tome that adds 10 to all stats, burning 4x ammo and using the "see stealth" tomes like they are candy chain-kills you back down to rank 1, how long do you think you will play the game if you're not willing to drop the $175 dollars to be competitive?

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Hmm, do we know those items will exist in the store, or do you just have a penchant for the melodramatic?

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Originally Posted by Artanisul

I am totally on board with your car analogy. Could not agree more. The only reason the transitive thing popped on my radar is as it was originally described it was for a boost to in game performance that could only be gotten from the store. Later it turned out that the ships with the same function could be bought with in game cash.

It is great that the bonus can be gotten with in game cash. What wasn't great was that the dev even mentioned that grinding points in DDO was a valid way of saying it can be earned via game play. That is not playing the game over there. That is gaming the system.

Just an opinion, luckily for my sanity not just MY opinion, or even just a few peoples opinion.

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Bingo ! and +1

Let's just see how far they push that philosophy...

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Originally Posted by GothicNosferatu

So give us something for our investment and loyalty, like a permanent discount from the store.

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You mean something like...oh...say $5 off your total monthly store purchases? Done!

If it helps you to think of it as a $5 monthly discount rather than a $5 gift of points then so be it.

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Originally Posted by GothicNosferatu

First my "life choice" here was to be a lifetime member to a subscription based game. Since they are changing their business model to F2P, I have some concerns and feel entitled to a little something extra.

My concern here is not the optional social items. It is the items that give a distinct and obvious advantage.

An example:

When you're pvp'ing and some guy who has bought the 80,000 point tome that gives him 4x the hp, the 50,000 point tome that gives him 3x DPS, the 25,000 point tome that adds 10 to all stats, burning 4x ammo and using the "see stealth" tomes like they are candy chain-kills you back down to rank 1, how long do you think you will play the game if you're not willing to drop the $175 dollars to be competitive?

Taking scenarios like this into account, and you see the whole lifetime subscription deal becomes pretty pointless.

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1) They still have a subscription plan in place and will continue to do so. I know, I'm one of the ones still paying for the game.

2) You can still log in, get extra free points, You got exactly what you paid for.

3) The guy with the $175 tome has most likely spent another $175 in unlocking content and such. That's $50-$150 more than you spent for years of playing. I'm thankful that he is paying and supporting the game. More power to him (sarcasm intended). If were rewarding "investments" he wins.

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Originally Posted by nolesrule

Hmm, do we know those items will exist in the store, or do you just have a penchant for the melodramatic?

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Go look at any F2P game, they are not in it to provide charity for all the poor kids, they are doing it to make more money that what the current business model is generating for them. They won't make more money if the only items in the store are social.

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Originally Posted by Zarador

3) The guy with the $175 tome has most likely spent another $175 in unlocking content and such. That's $50-$150 more than you spent for years of playing. I'm thankful that he is paying and supporting the game. More power to him (sarcasm intended). If were rewarding "investments" he wins.

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And how long do you think you will stick around and play this game when everyone else is 4 times as powerful as you?

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Originally Posted by GothicNosferatu

Go look at any F2P game, they are not in it to provide charity for all the poor kids, they are doing it to make more money that what the current business model is generating for them. They won't make more money if the only items in the store are social.

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speaking of f2p games...still waiting on you to list ALL those f2p games you have experience with that use the SAME hybrid model that lotro is gonna use.

:D

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Originally Posted by Darej

speaking of f2p games...still waiting on you to list ALL those f2p games you have experience with that use the SAME hybrid model that lotro is gonna use.

:D

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Sorry not going to engage in a comparison of various F2P games, but I would challenge you to show me a successful F2P game where the only things you can buy are convenience and social items.

F2P == Pay to win == not about long term gaming but rather a healthly flow of cash from short term gamers.

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Originally Posted by GothicNosferatu

Sorry not going to engage in a comparison of various F2P games, but I would challenge you to show me a successful F2P game where the only things you can buy are convenience and social items.

F2P == Pay to win == not about long term gaming but rather a healthly flow of cash from short term gamers.

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hey you are the one basing your concerns on your experience with f2p games.

i want to know which ones you played that are like Turbines f2p hybrid so i could go check them out for myself.

and AFAIK DDO only offers convenience and social items...and they seem successful

:D

I'm still trying to figure out how you win at LOTRO.

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Originally Posted by GothicNosferatu

And how long do you think you will stick around and play this game when everyone else is 4 times as powerful as you?

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Same as I do now. I play to enjoy the game, not to compete with the next persons gear.

Could you name one example however of any item in any hybrid model store that has even one item close to a raid drop? Point to any item in the DDO store, SoE store or any other hybrid store that comes even close to a instanced item? Anything close to an Epic?

See, the concept of the store is to get you to enhance what you do now, not replace what you do now for the exact reason you mentioned. If I stop playing, I also stop playing. Now if I continue playing the way I always have, but it's a bit smoother with some fluff or more convenience, then I'm enticed to spend a little more.

The stores in these games revolve around the game, the game does not revolve around the store.

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Originally Posted by GothicNosferatu

Go look at any F2P game, they are not in it to provide charity for all the poor kids, they are doing it to make more money that what the current business model is generating for them. They won't make more money if the only items in the store are social.

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Go look at the store in DDO, then look at the store in Everquest and the other SoE games, look at some of the other stores that are not based only on F2P. If you're a pure F2P game, then yes, the game revolves around the store. If your a hybrid game, then the store revolves around the game.

Here you have people paying and playing already that are already hooked into the game. Your simply adding items that will attract some users to spend more than their monthly subscription and some lifers to put money back into the game again.

The F2P is simply a longer trial at which time many players will convert to Premium or better.

WoW's Celestial Steed mount. Its treated as an epic flying mount if you have the epic flying skill. Epic mounts are often handed out as rare raid loot in WoW.

Personally I couldn't care less about the mount.(other than when is my pally getting her flying charger? =P)

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Originally Posted by Antreas

WoW's Celestial Steed mount. Its treated as an epic flying mount if you have the epic flying skill. Epic mounts are often handed out as rare raid loot in WoW.

Personally I couldn't care less about the mount.(other than when is my pally getting her flying charger? =P)

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wow isnt a f2p game nor does it have a in game store...yet

the questions was...epic level loot for sale at an in game store

:D