TRANSCRIPT: Twitter Dev Chat August 21, 2013 - Class Changes

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Originally Posted by TinDragon

I have read pretty much every bit of information released about the class revamps and have never seen a dev state that trees outside your specialization have a heavier cost. Can you cite your source?

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Leixy: Using war-steeds as a template, how will trait points be earned and spent on trait trees? #LOTRO
A3: HoarseDev: You’ll earn a point every other level. You’ll also earn points from some deeds. #LOTRO
A3a:You’ll choose a specialization at an early level that will grant specific bonuses and affect the cost of traits as you spend them #LOTRO

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Yes, its vague on the specifics, but its sounds like your specialization either decreases the cost for your specialized line or increases it for the others. The effect is the same regardless.

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Originally Posted by Rufkin

I thought I was going to like the change to trait trees, until this is what I gathered from the transcript. Besides the trait points that you receive every other level, you will be required to earn trait points by completing old skill trait deeds in order to max out a character. OR THIS, will it be possible that the number of trait points we earned to be a larger number than the number we will be allowed to spend?

Do you mean to tell me that those skill traits deeds, the most obnoxious grind in the game, are going to be required in order for me to max out my already maxed out character?!

I respectfully request that the Devs publish a list of exactly what deeds we will be expected to complete for trait points if we will need all of said deeds to bring our characters back to 85 when the expansion releases.

Otherwise, here is an example of what I foresee, my son's level 85 loremaster that has only completed the skill trait deeds that he wanted to equip, is going to be severely gimped with this expansion. He won't have access to all the skills he already does, let alone all the skills necessary to be competitive at level 85. So we either need to finish those deeds that will grant trait points before the expansion, or we need to reconsider buying the expansion at all.

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Given that they have said that we will have approximately 1 skill point per 2 levels I would find it hard to imagine that deeds could account for a majority of the points. I would suspect that his non completion of deeds will translate to a lack of skills outside his prefered specialty which is already the case. Now of course more points will always mean more power so he will be missing out. The only question left unanswered is will he still be viable. That is unanswerable till we actually see what is going to happen.

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Originally Posted by TinDragon

Yeah, that whole thing is a bit irritating. In theory the ranges should be fine when implementing this change, as I'd assume all skills would change their distances equally. Of course, you know what they say about assuming, so we'll have to see.
Unfortunately I don't know enough about Skirmisher Stance to say what happens to the ranges with the BA, and I'm guessing they'll mirror that pretty closely, so maybe someone with a BA who actually uses Skirmisher Stance can chime in.

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4 skills get reduced to 20m but have no induction and can be used on the run. I rarely use this stance, but when I need it, it is invaluable. If they mirror skirmisher stance then I think all of the hunter players will find it very useful.

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Originally Posted by TinDragon

Captain may have been a bad example for you to use. It's one of the few classes that's already set up like that. :P On my main captain, I have 9 distinct LIs for different roles (2 healing, 2 buffing, 2 DPS, and 2 tank, plus the bridle). In addition to the tank gear I carry around (which takes up a bag on its own) I also carry around 8 other pieces of armour to improve my buffing and healing. (Normally I wear 4 Hytbold Healer and 2 Perseverance, but I also carry around 4 Tognir for the Motivating Speech buff and 4 pieces of Hytbold Charge for the +5% on Revealing Mark.)

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My comment was a bit more heads up to those who didn't think things all the way thru, that every captain - with a simple trait switch - will be an effective tank. For me, it is something that I'm not prepared to do on my captain, so if a raid leader suggested I spec tanking, it would be a polite no. Maybe because captain isn't my main, I consider it my 4th toon, I'm not willing to make the effort to prepare it to effectively do each role that the 3 different lines suggest are possible. But that's just me; others will think differently. I'm not prepared to do the grind to support 3 distinct lines across 6 toons, but that's my choice.

So, yesterday, I had the opportunity to observe the twitter chat while it happened. And, for the most part, I thought it was very informative.

There are, however, a few questions I would like to ask...

1. Will Helms Deep be used to consolidate skills? As in, will the skills we have be streamlined into only those skills which will actually be useful to our characters instead of offering many skills that may not be very useful (except in rare situations)?

2. Will the skill trees allow us more freedom to pick/choose the skills we actually want, thus, streamlining our builds toward what we want to specialize in?

3. Lore-master and Captain "pets" were mentioned as being looked at to balance them and increase their potency. Can you provide any additional information on this? Will this be a change coming with Helms Deep or is it a project for the future?

4. With the class skill trees coming, how are the developers envisioning each class? Will each class be put in more of a box, or will the flexibility actually be increased to the point where (for example) a Captain can be a satisfactory replacement for a Guardian/Warden in some situations (more than current)?

OK. I will leave it at those four questions and see if any answers might be forthcoming.

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Originally Posted by Namesse

My comment was a bit more heads up to those who didn't think things all the way thru, that every captain - with a simple trait switch - will be an effective tank.

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That is definitely true right now (and the simple fact that I have an entire bag of gear "just in case" should help drive that point home) but there was a response in the Q&A that gave me some hope that captains will (or at least can) be actual tanks, and not just "barely" tanks even with the best gear.

I don't think I could support that many trait lines across that many classes, so I can definitely understand that sentiment too. I think personally I'll be sticking with two lines on all classes but captain (my main) and RK (just because all three modes are so much fun). Hunter I may decide to keep at just one trait line, even with the revamp.

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Originally Posted by TheCrossbow

1. Will Helms Deep be used to consolidate skills? As in, will the skills we have be streamlined into only those skills which will actually be useful to our characters instead of offering many skills that may not be very useful (except in rare situations)?

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I know streamlining is part of the plan, but I don't know how much is going to be streamlining skills vs gating skills behind trait lines.

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2. Will the skill trees allow us more freedom to pick/choose the skills we actually want, thus, streamlining our builds toward what we want to specialize in?

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It sounds like certain skills will be in certain trait lines, so you may not be able to pick too many skills outside of your specialization. They haven't really gotten specific with this information yet.

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3. Lore-master and Captain "pets" were mentioned as being looked at to balance them and increase their potency. Can you provide any additional information on this? Will this be a change coming with Helms Deep or is it a project for the future?

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From what I can tell from the post RockX started in the captain thread, the pets are getting some sort of revamp with the next class revamp. How potent it'll be is unknown, but it looks to be included with the plans for the HD revamp (since I'm fairly certain the devs don't have two revamps planned).

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4. With the class skill trees coming, how are the developers envisioning each class? Will each class be put in more of a box, or will the flexibility actually be increased to the point where (for example) a Captain can be a satisfactory replacement for a Guardian/Warden in some situations (more than current)?

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Can't answer for everything ('cause I'm not a dev :)), but one of the questions did hit on champs and captains as tanks.

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Originally Posted by Namesse

I'm not willing to make the effort to prepare it to effectively do each role that the 3 different lines suggest are possible.

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I think that sums it up in part. if you want to multi class, you can do, pick the line you like and stick with it. if you only have 1/2 classes, you can learn all those specs purfectly and be a very good asset to a team in differant ways but still in one class.

I know I'm thinking about going just warden and burgar. use all 3 lines on warden to the max and off-play burglar just for debuffs if the group needs it. and if I get bored, I'll level my mini only for healing. just because the 3 lines are there doesn't mean you have to use them all if you don't want. your own choice. but you will be limiting yourself vastly (and rightly so) if you choose to only have one class, one setup, yet expect to fill multiple rolls in a group.

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Originally Posted by Sapience

Q13: Silmelin: Can minstrels still switch (with in game silver) between being as strong as possible War-speech minstrels #LOTRO
Q13a: who can enjoy all the solo content of the game, and as strong as possible healers who'll get invited to Instances and Raids? #LOTRO
A13: HoarseDev: You can switch builds with silver. #LOTRO

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Excuse me, but my question wasn't answered. The question was if Minstrels can be as strong as possible War-speech minstrels who can enjoy all the solo content of the game, and as strong as possible healers who'll get invited to raids? :)



Most of the content needs to be done solo because it's hard to find groups for all instances, almost impossible to find groups for fellowship quests, and completely impossible for us who aren't married to force someone to follow us around for years when we quest :P

And no one will want a so-so healer for a raid.

Therefore I'm wondering how the skill points work: Will minstrels have enough skill points to make two builds, one for solo and one for grouping, or will they need to sacrifice being wanted in raids to be able to handle harder quests on their own?

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Originally Posted by Sapience

Q9: Mildford: Will the new traits system be offered to creeps too? #LOTRO
A9: Jinjaah: Creeps will be getting Corruption Set Bonuses but not full on trait trees. #LOTRO

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Will this be due to the fact that we way Turbine created us creeps in the very 1st place and modelled simply on NPC's? You made creeps like those sessional instances so that you can not do anything worthwile to upgrade us without having to go back to the very beginning and start all over again which would, probably, mean we'd loose all our identies as well as our skills, rank, items etc.

If creeps had been created on the same lines as freeps, upgrades, class changes would've been so much easier for you but yet another failure. :mad:

You never expected creeps to be as much loved as they are and played by so many people and of those, so many ONLY play creeps!

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Originally Posted by Sapience

Q32: @Aelrindel what about creeps classes and traits? #LOTRO
A32: Jinjaah Creeps will be getting corruption set bonuses. #LOTRO
A32a: These bonuses give various buffs and effects based on the corruptions slotted. #LOTRO

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Does this include upgrades to not only corruptions but to Race and class skills to?

I am sorry to say but I do not hold out any hope to be competitve once HD is out nor the fact we'll get much upgrading when we do if we ever do. :(

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Originally Posted by Silmelin

Excuse me, but my question wasn't answered. The question was if Minstrels can be as strong as possible War-speech minstrels who can enjoy all the solo content of the game, and as strong as possible healers who'll get invited to raids? :)



Most of the content needs to be done solo because it's hard to find groups for all instances, almost impossible to find groups for fellowship quests, and completely impossible for us who aren't married to force someone to follow us around for years when we quest :P

And no one will want a so-so healer for a raid.

Therefore I'm wondering how the skill points work: Will minstrels have enough skill points to make two builds, one for solo and one for grouping, or will they need to sacrifice being wanted in raids to be able to handle harder quests on their own?

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It works like Mounted Combat. Build One gets X amount of points to spend in any configuration you want. Build Two gets X amount of points to spend in a different configuration.
You won't be able to trait for DPS and heals at the same time (or you will, but in some kind of limited fashion) but you can have a DPS build and heal build and switch between the two. They don't share points.

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Originally Posted by Kruelle

How will LM's get changed to keep their current Hybrid potential as they are?

My LM is my main, and reading this, it sounds like my moors build will be completely unavailable. My moors play style, i use almost every single one of my skills in longer fight (raid/group vs raid/group) and when 1v1, i use a good amount of them. Will i still be able to throw tar down, SI half my group, Melee/ranged debuff half the enemies, while over half of my traits red line, and so im still able to put out good dps, with WL stacked on me, and beacon of hope doing 1k+ with an opportunity to save a life with a crit? What will happen to my 1v1s where i need one of my skills but its not there? How will this affect my Yellow line for CC in raids? will I still be able to have my Ents go to War, and DPS skills along with the debuffs? can i still heal other raid members? Will CC even be necessary with the continuing trend of the game getting easier and easier (IE SoM, LM's/Burgs stuns were beyond valuable, while now any erebor raid t1 can be done EASILY with no stuns, roots etc.)?

This leaves me many questions, and i hope that somehow with the more 'advanced' classes, they leave a lot of the skills or combine them so that it doesnt make some freeps "underpowered" while others insanely "overpowered".

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Moors aside, this is one of my main concerns as well.

I've never taken my Lore Master to the moors but I enjoy the class because of its versatility. When I'm bored, I go solo group content where I need to use my arsenal, and I really enjoy it. I need to debuff, CC, dps, pick the right pet, heal a little, etc... the thought of not being able to do this really annoys me.

Again, Turbine is 'fixing' something that wasn't broken.

I'm trying to stay optimistic but I don't like what I know so far, I don't like it at all. :(

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Originally Posted by xDementedx

Since classes are being revamped, skills changed, renamed, re-purposed, etc., are you going to allow other races, along with the current, within the class?

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I didn't see anyone else answer this so I will. Nope.

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Originally Posted by Elemiire

Moors aside, this is one of my main concerns as well.

I've never taken my Lore Master to the moors but I enjoy the class because of its versatility. When I'm bored, I go solo group content where I need to use my arsenal, and I really enjoy it. I need to debuff, CC, dps, pick the right pet, heal a little, etc... the thought of not being able to do this really annoys me.

Again, Turbine is 'fixing' something that wasn't broken.

I'm trying to stay optimistic but I don't like what I know so far, I don't like it at all. :(

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I think both you and the poster you quoted need to separate the issue of losing skills, from the issue of trying to solo group instances, or be simultaneously effective at buffing, debuffing, healing, and dps.

Losing access to skills, or combining multiple skill effects into new ones to reduce total skills (which i suspect will happen to some classes that get more 'pruning' done) seems like simplification for the sake of simplification, to me. Making it so you have to trait deep into the blue line for water lore to stack at all would not simplify the class, but it would make it less able to have it all. Similarly, halving the duration of various debuffs, or dots, or sticky gourd unless traited specifically for it (and not being able to trait for all of this) would not simplify the class, but it would more effectively prevent classes like Loremaster, Warden, and Captain from having their cake and eating it too, which in large part they can do right now.

Since all we really know is that skills are being pruned, and have no real concept for how limiting the new trait trees will be, the exact opposite of what I suggest might become the reality, for all I know.

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Originally Posted by Sapience

I didn't see anyone else answer this so I will. Nope.

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My hobbit captain dream is shot down again. /tear

Thanks for the reply though. :D

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Originally Posted by mr_toad

And Turbine, I expect you to have this game perfectly optimized for my $300 Celeron laptop with integrated graphics, 5400 rpm hard drive, 2 gig of ram, and a dialup connection. :p Hurry up and fix your lag already, sheesh! ;)

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I really, really, hope your joking :( I don't have a super machine, but It is not the worst either!

AMD Athlon II X2 215
Processor 2.70 GHz

6 GB Ram

7200 RPM hard drive

64-bit OS

ATI Radeon HD 4350 ? (Couldn't find the graphics card specs, but I know it isn't integrated as my hubby is helping me pick out a better one to replace it with)

Standard Internet with a Download of 19.2 Mbps and Upload of .98 Mbps (Not dial-up)

And that isn't the point anyways.... When I left Lotro a month or so ago, I was running every video setting as low as it would go and could not raid!! If I joined a group with more than 2 people I would freeze or lurch in place and my skills would not go off....

I went to Rift expecting the same thing but have been tweaking my setting and can run with 8 people with my settings in the mid highs. I have never had lag in Rift yet and no crash, or skill lag either :)

What breaks my heart is Lotro is my first love and I miss the game, my kin, my tribe, and all the friends I have made here! But dying from lag and not being able to raid is depressing and not fun at all!!

But the end of the story is.... Its not on my side, it is their lag so the ball is in their court now, lets hope they care enough to fix it!!

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Originally Posted by SophiaMarquette

I really, really, hope your joking :( I don't have a super machine, but It is not the worst either!

AMD Athlon II X2 215
Processor 2.70 GHz

6 GB Ram

64-bit OS

ATI Radeon HD 4350 ? (Couldn't find the graphics card specs)

Standard Internet with a Download of 19.2 Mbps and Upload of .98 Mbps

And that isn't the point anyways.... When I left Lotro a month or so ago, I was running every video setting as low as it would go and could not raid!! If I joined a group with more than 2 people I would freeze or lurch in place and my skills would not go off....

I went to Rift expecting the same thing but have been tweaking my setting and can run with 8 people with my settings in the mid highs. I have never had lag in Rift yet and no crash, or skill lag either :)

What breaks my heart is Lotro is my first love and I miss the game, my kin, my tribe, and all the friends I have made here! But dying from lag and not being able to raid is depressing and not fun at all!!

But the end of the story is.... Its not on my side, it is their lag so the ball is in their court now, lets hope they care enough to fix it!!

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You are partly right. We have a fix coming for some of this, specifically mounted combat lag, in Update 11.3. Along with some additional monitoring that will help us further isolate issues players report as 'lag'. We've learned a lot, including what is absolutely not part of the issue, but we're not 100% content yet.

However, we're also going to publish new system requirements in the near future. As we've been investigating we've discovered that our minimum and recommended specs are not accurate. Some of our updates push equipment more than we realized (Moria did, Mirkwood did, Rohan very much did, and we expect Helm's Deep will). So we're working on a new set of specs to better reflect what you should use as baselines to run the game. Again, always take 'run the game' to mean the lower end of things, to really run it full bore with raids and other action on screen you always want to aim higher (no matter what game).

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Originally Posted by bohbashum

II'm also sure why some rolls have gone out of date is because of the undemanding instances. CC seems to be missing lately, and we don't normally plan every trash pull like we used too, something is wrong. so *maybe* this is a nurf to us, to make instances harder, but classes more fun and have more dpeth in choice. utimatly focusing on the group acting like a group rather than a tank, healer, and 4 dps which seems to be the case for 70% of the 6mans

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Originally Posted by Peresbert

Things like this will balance classes finally. You may cry but you must remember how easy things are now. Want it to continue down this path? No class should be a fellowship on its own. 6-mans should need 6 men with each of the 6 having their own role. Raids need to be difficult with each class having to do their own thing near perfect on T2&3. Everyone cries for harder content but our classes have become overpowered and in my mind do need to be retooled. Its hard to make the tier of content you want when the classes have gotten out of control.

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Here's an idea: make challenging content instead of changing the classes.

Shocking, I know... but Turbine has done it before though, and they could do it again.

Honestly, I don't think they're doing this for that reason, but what do I know?

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Originally Posted by spelunker

I think both you and the poster you quoted need to separate the issue of losing skills, from the issue of trying to solo group instances, or be simultaneously effective at buffing, debuffing, healing, and dps.

Losing access to skills, or combining multiple skill effects into new ones to reduce total skills (which i suspect will happen to some classes that get more 'pruning' done) seems like simplification for the sake of simplification, to me. Making it so you have to trait deep into the blue line for water lore to stack at all would not simplify the class, but it would make it less able to have it all. Similarly, halving the duration of various debuffs, or dots, or sticky gourd unless traited specifically for it (and not being able to trait for all of this) would not simplify the class, but it would more effectively prevent classes like Loremaster, Warden, and Captain from having their cake and eating it too, which in large part they can do right now.

Since all we really know is that skills are being pruned, and have no real concept for how limiting the new trait trees will be, the exact opposite of what I suggest might become the reality, for all I know.

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I wouldn't have a problem with that; it evens seems fair but using the same skill as an example:

What they are saying is that how you trait will affect which skills you will have access to, so let's assume for a minute that if I'm traited deep into the red line, I don't get access to Water Lore or Beacon of Hope. That greatly decreases my utility in a fellowship compared to now.

If they decreased the effectiveness of skills depending on how we traited -as they do now, but more- I would be fine with that. A Lore Master's wardng circle, for example, is nearly useless when traited red, but great when traited yellow, our sticky gourd is poop unless we trait the capstone, our mezzes are short if we're in red line, etc.

That is perfectly fine by me, but taking skills is another thing. A nerf to some skills would have been more reasonable, but this is silly; I would rather see them develop content to challenge us instead of changing us for content to be challenging.

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Originally Posted by TinDragon

It works like Mounted Combat. Build One gets X amount of points to spend in any configuration you want. Build Two gets X amount of points to spend in a different configuration.
You won't be able to trait for DPS and heals at the same time (or you will, but in some kind of limited fashion) but you can have a DPS build and heal build and switch between the two. They don't share points.

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I haven't tried Mounted Combat so I don't know how that works, but if it's true that a minstrel can go full out in a build for fighting and healing and switching between them out of combat, it looks like my minstrel will still let me play the way I want :) When I group up I like having two red traits and the rest blue :)

If I understand it correctly a minstrel will have an easier time to go from solo questing to jumping into an instance or raid as a healer? As it is now I have to let the group wait while I go switch at a bard and read all the trait info so I can figure out which traits to switch to for healing. Can be nice to have it already set so you can go join the others right away :)

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Originally Posted by pvdtheking

Limiting the amount of skills - yeah this is fine for idiots...people in lotro aren't dumb and its pretty insulting to think you believe we cant handle more than 20 skills at the same time, you will also be denying people access to skills they use in-game all the time

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First I would like to say if you try to say a company is "insulting" you, whining about it doesn't help prove your point. The ~20 skills per spec is not because we can't handle more than 20 skills. It is to promote specialization and balance between classes. You'll be able to do almost everything you did before, but with much more potency. The only issue would be consolidation of LM skills. The rest is straight forward and easy to figure out. As a main hunter ~20 skills I can use is an improvement. The ones I actively use (excluding stances and hunter's focus) total up to 12. 8 or so more would be lovely. The rest of the classes you can see where your current skills can fall into these lines.

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Originally Posted by Elemiire

Here's an idea: make challenging content instead of changing the classes.

Shocking, I know... but Turbine has done it before though, and they could do it again.

Honestly, I don't think they're doing this for that reason, but what do I know?

A nerf to some skills would have been more reasonable, but this is silly; I would rather see them develop content to challenge us instead of changing us for content to be challenging.

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If you read everything I wrote, it says the classes are far out of line. This started with RoI and we see the effects now of those original decisions.

My personal opinion about content is we need better alpha and beta testers. If you PUG a T2 raid on Bullroarer, a Turbine Dev said that it would be time to revisit the content and make it more challenging. You want more challenging content, go test it on Bullroarer. Get around 4 dozen or more seasoned players to be a single testing group and get at it when it comes test time in either private or public beta. Then you can see what content turns out to be.

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Originally Posted by Peresbert

First I would like to say if you try to say a company is "insulting" you, whining about it doesn't help prove your point. The ~20 skills per spec is not because we can't handle more than 20 skills. It is to promote specialization and balance between classes. You'll be able to do almost everything you did before, but with much more potency. The only issue would be consolidation of LM skills. The rest is straight forward and easy to figure out. As a main hunter ~20 skills I can use is an improvement. The ones I actively use (excluding stances and hunter's focus) total up to 12. 8 or so more would be lovely. The rest of the classes you can see where your current skills can fall into these lines.

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Many classes besides LM can use more than 20 skills in a fight. Like Captain if he needs to offtank while he's been healing. Same with champ if he's been dpsing. Hybrid mini's will lose their potency as described so far. RK's will no longer be able to switch to heals from dps if a healer goes down. Many people like the more "Advanced" classes as Turbine has labelled them. I don't understand people complaining about having too many skills. If you never used them as people say, why not just take them off your hotbars so those that do want more skills have the freedom to use all of theirs?

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Originally Posted by Peresbert

If you read everything I wrote, it says the classes are far out of line. This started with RoI and we see the effects now of those original decisions.

My personal opinion about content is we need better alpha and beta testers. If you PUG a T2 raid on Bullroarer, a Turbine Dev said that it would be time to revisit the content and make it more challenging. You want more challenging content, go test it on Bullroarer. Get around 4 dozen or more seasoned players to be a single testing group and get at it when it comes test time in either private or public beta. Then you can see what content turns out to be.

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Agreed. But that has nothing to do with my previous argument.

No matter how much people dislike a change that they've seen on BR, and no matter how reasonable and informed they are when complaining about it, once Turbine decides something is going live, it does. Take Hobbit Presents for example.

As for challenging content, it happens that the general opinion today seems to be: 'what's challenging for some, is impossible to others'; so it's like no one can't have 'steak cause babies cant chew it.

Yup, you just ruined the game with these changes. In all the time I've played this game, I've never been compelled to post on the forums, but I do now. After reading through all the comments, I am even more certain these changes will effectively ruin the game. One of the reasons I love this game, is the free style way of playing. I like the options and don't want to be restricted. For example, on my LM, I use nearly every skill at some point. I can't even imagine not having some of them, but it sounds like that is what will happen, which will mean less survivability, and boring game play. It also sounds like you will be dumbing down the advanced classes. The burg has become one of my favorite classes. I like all the options I have with the many tricks I have at my disposal, and I use nearly ALL of them at some point. They are all necessary to survive in different situations, especially considering the long cool down timers on some. I have played other MMOs, but the ones that used the tree system, I never played for long. I absolutely HATED them. One reason I love LOTRO is that it doesn't (or didn't) rely on a tree system. I'm now upset that I invested the amount of time and money in this game that I have, as I really doubt I will continue to play under this new system. What a waste.

I'll reiterate some of what I said in the RK forum. I like my skills. They're the main attraction IMO of the game. Each new skill every two levels and learning how to integrate them into my rotation. Normally if I'm DPSing, I'm traited fire to get max damage. But I still want my lightning skills for kiting, easy attunement, and CC. I still want my frost for debuffing. And I still want the ability, as I said in the other thread, to respond to a mini dying by taking over as main healer, even still fully traited DPS. (I can switch weapons and armor on the fly)

I don't see why I should have to give up any of those powers in the name of being more specialized.

In the same vein, people are talking about soloing group content, which is why I rolled a Warden as my second toon. With self-heals and power-regen, I can take on a 100,000-hp troll if I have to. If others can do that with Captains and LMs, I salute you, but I can't. So I'm hoping that I don't lose the "Insane Warden Fellowship" ability right when I'm about to hit level cap with him.

It seems there's a need for clarification here. What some people are referring to as 'Hybrids'(the person talking about their LM in particular), is actually not a hybrid at all. That's a 'do everything' class. Just like a red traited Mini that can main heal group content, a Warden that can dance between moderate DPS and extreme survivability at will, or a Champ that can maintain strong survivability when traited DPS.

Personally, I don't like that my LM can serve as support, DPS and heals all at the same time, and function incredibly well at every one of them. If I want to serve as multiple roles, fine, but it should require not being top tier at any specific thing. Finally, I should note that Turbine has already stated that they still support hybrids, you will just be 'good' at each of those roles instead of 'awesome'.

Which is how it should be, IMO.