Are you satisfied with Helm's Deep expansion?

MMO gamers might be the only gaming sub-group that requires external validation in order to have fun playing a game.

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Originally Posted by melting

(Well, if you were at work at your boss said, "Ok, we're changing a few things about your job, you can either leave now, or accept these changes." What would you do? You would start relearning your job to incorporate those new tasks. )


ah...key word here, WORK..Im not here to Work, I'm here to play..and as far as logging out, have done so. When my fun starts to feel like work..its time to move on. I really hate to because Ive been here for years, but its starting to seem, not much fun.

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I suspect you are stretching the analogy somewhat to make your point, which is why I don't think using real-world examples works too well when talking about games.

But anyhoo - change work to 'the game you were previously enjoying' in what you quoted and how do you feel?

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Originally Posted by Leo_Dan

MMO gamers might be the only gaming sub-group that requires external validation in order to have fun playing a game.

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Or to validate their decision to quit :)

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Originally Posted by trcanberra

Or to validate their decision to quit :)

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Precisely.

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Originally Posted by trcanberra

I suspect you are stretching the analogy somewhat to make your point, which is why I don't think using real-world examples works too well when talking about games.

But anyhoo - change work to 'the game you were previously enjoying' in what you quoted and how do you feel?

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Yeah, the Work and boss bit wasn't my post.......................... ...................

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Originally Posted by trcanberra

Or to validate their decision to quit :)

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No , I think we are all just answering the question that the OP put forth. Simple.

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Originally Posted by melting

Yeah, the Work and boss bit wasn't my post.......................... ...................

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Cheers - I was wondering if maybe you just need a break? I play a lot of MMOs and agree that when they start to seem like work it is time to move on.

I have recently come back here after a 10 month break and am loving it, even parts I disliked before (like mounted combat). Heh - maybe this is why I am so bubbly about the game just now and annoying all the HD 'doom and gloom' folks. For me I was wanting something new and refreshing and the skill tree thing was just what the doctor ordered.

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Originally Posted by robbie1435

Have you been to the actual Hornburg fortress yet? You can trade marks, medallions, and seals for the same class teal jewelry as you get in big battles. You can farm marks/meds/seals from regular raids.

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Been there, got really bored on the third epic battle in the epic quest line and STOPPED. I couldn't take anymore. It sucked. Why must you tasks me so?! I'm suffering from PTBD ;-p Post Traumatic Boredom Disorder

Overall I would give it a 3/10. The EB/BB are just plain boring, never been an RTS fan and they are really nothing more than a 3rd rate RTS mini game. Tying the epic quest line into them just makes it worse.

Not pleased with the class changes either, skill tree systems can work well. The skill tree system they came up with here is not one of those that works well.

And contrary to what a certain folks seem to think, dislike does not arise from a lack of trying the new systems. Just the opposite, tried them in the beta and the live version for the trait trees, still do not like it. Beta convinced me not to spend money on HD until such time as they might introduce some significant improvements.

1 Point out of 10

On the bright side it can only go uphill from here ... Unless WB pulls the plug.

A game which cost $59.99 and its unfinished?? this should have been dropped down to half price etc , i feel like i been over-charged for something which has not been delievered to customers satisfaction.

Good point
- Big Battle's for me was unique and different compared to all other instances which i liked and the reward system was much better when completing main objectives and side objectives as it required players to think strategically.
- trait system for me was great, before many skills were over stocked on the quick slots that it was annoying to use the skills that were important to me, now i dont have to have over loaded skills on quick slots and i can choose to swap damage or tanking role in middle of something without seeing the barter npc for retrait.
- landscape was designed beautifully and a lot of work went onto the design part of the game, which we all admire as it looks more rohirrim style look and leveling was much easier to get around the places.

Bad points

- Big battles is buggy
- some class trait trees look unfinished or bugged and has not been thoughtfully implemented properly, it felt like it was rushed onto its final consideration.
- pvmp has not been delivered (missing piece for end-game content for pvp'ers)
- the expansion should have delivered a proper raids and instances like we used to but keeping the Big battles at one side.
- game is just too easy

Ratings

big battles 6/10
trait tree specialization 8/10
landscape 10/10
pvmp 0/10

Im downgrading my account to premium as i thought this expansion would be worth investing on.

Positives:

• Landscape is nice looking
• I like a few of the new hunter skills in the trait trees
• The Big Battles are a really nice concept that introduces some fun mechanics
• Some of the new gear has really nice cosmetics
• The Epic line had some very clever writing in it and I actually laughed a couple times
• The lore seems pretty solid so far without any huge Wildermore type insults.

Neutrals:

• Big Battles to me are here because they're a bit interesting but I doubt they'll hold my attention for long without more 3 - 6 man options.
• Trait trees in general. I haven't quested on any of my other classes yet, but it's been a bit of a wash for hunters, basically.
• 2 songs from the soundtrack don't make me turn down my music.

Negatives:

• Everything is mind numbingly easy. I went from 85 - 95 with my original 85 gear only swapping out a few jewelry pieces from big battle rewards.
• The quest lines for the most part were uninteresting and pretty boring. I had a hard time caring about any of the little towns I was supposed to help. (Gimbold's quest line was the exception)
• I've collected 1000 skarn ore without an emerald shard. Dump the RNG for crying out loud.
• The music, for the most part, is pretty poor quality. I generally turn off the music once I enter Helm's Deep proper and the same two songs playing over and over in the rest of the landscape gets old.
• Several of the quests didn't make a lick of sense to me. I won't spoil it, but sometime turn ins were confusing, map icons went the wrong way, or I had no idea why I was doing what I was doing or where it even came from.
• Mounted Combat is still a thing. I do 10x the amount of damage on foot as a hunter as I do on my warsteed. Full fury shots hitting for 1k - 2k is just a joke, right?

Score:
Visuals: 8/10
Audio: 4/10
Epic: 6/10
Landscape Quests: 3/10
Big Battles: 6/10
Combat: 2/10
Class Changes: 8/10
Long Term Playability: 4/10

Total: 5.1/10

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Originally Posted by Widoch

Positives:

• Landscape is nice looking
• I like a few of the new hunter skills in the trait trees
• The Big Battles are a really nice concept that introduces some fun mechanics
• Some of the new gear has really nice cosmetics
• The Epic line had some very clever writing in it and I actually laughed a couple times
• The lore seems pretty solid so far without any huge Wildermore type insults.

Neutrals:

• Big Battles to me are here because they're a bit interesting but I doubt they'll hold my attention for long without more 3 - 6 man options.
• Trait trees in general. I haven't quested on any of my other classes yet, but it's been a bit of a wash for hunters, basically.
• 2 songs from the soundtrack don't make me turn down my music.

Negatives:

• Everything is mind numbingly easy. I went from 85 - 95 with my original 85 gear only swapping out a few jewelry pieces from big battle rewards.
• The quest lines for the most part were uninteresting and pretty boring. I had a hard time caring about any of the little towns I was supposed to help. (Gimbold's quest line was the exception)
• I've collected 1000 skarn ore without an emerald shard. Dump the RNG for crying out loud.
• The music, for the most part, is pretty poor quality. I generally turn off the music once I enter Helm's Deep proper and the same two songs playing over and over in the rest of the landscape gets old.
• Several of the quests didn't make a lick of sense to me. I won't spoil it, but sometime turn ins were confusing, map icons went the wrong way, or I had no idea why I was doing what I was doing or where it even came from.
• Mounted Combat is still a thing. I do 10x the amount of damage on foot as a hunter as I do on my warsteed. Full fury shots hitting for 1k - 2k is just a joke, right?

Score:
Visuals: 8/10
Audio: 4/10
Epic: 6/10
Landscape Quests: 3/10
Big Battles: 6/10
Combat: 2/10
Class Changes: 8/10
Long Term Playability: 4/10

Total: 5.1/10

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I'd say this is my line of thought as well, however, i'd give big battles a 5/10. Not enough to pick my guardian again and crawl to the level cap (he's stuck at level 89).

I'll give a free sugestion: please, make isengard instances and rewards scalable for level 95!

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Originally Posted by melting

No , I think we are all just answering the question that the OP put forth. Simple.

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For clarification - I was responding to another poster who made the general comment that many 'I quit' posts seem to be looking for validation. I was not responding to your particular answer to the OP.

So far I'm satisfied with HD. I like to take my time and enjoy the game, read the quests, etc. Been playing the game for 7 years now. Been burned out several times, take about a month break, then come back and have fun again.

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Originally Posted by CrackleNackle

A game which cost $59.99 and its unfinished??

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Which game is that you are talking about? The expansion in this game absolutely does not cost that much. If for some reason you decided to buy a bonus collector's edition of the expansion, then discount your bonus before complaining about the cost.

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Originally Posted by Lohi

Which game is that you are talking about? The expansion in this game absolutely does not cost that much. If for some reason you decided to buy a bonus collector's edition of the expansion, then discount your bonus before complaining about the cost.

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1 expansion = 4250 TP = about € 30 = about $ 35. Doesn't matter what you get extra for it.... this is what you pay, part of the package is the expansion. An expansion which is more buggy then ever, laggy, boring and most of all: UNfinished. Ah, before you say it is: devs confirmed that it's unfinished btw. So basicly you think it's understandable you buy a house, but it has no roof or floors and lacking windows? Would you accept this? Pay the full price of a house, being unfinished and with the contractor saying "someday we'll finish it". Yeah, defo the normal way of doing business :)

What game were you playing again?

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Originally Posted by ThomasFlora

Been there, got really bored on the third epic battle in the epic quest line and STOPPED. I couldn't take anymore. It sucked. Why must you tasks me so?! I'm suffering from PTBD ;-p Post Traumatic Boredom Disorder

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One thing I want to make clear is that I have not been in any of the epic battles. I'm still in Altburg because I'm playing too many alts. :p

With that being said, I totally get what ThomasFlora is saying because I absolutely loathe skirmishes and I hate having to do them in the earlier epics. I think it was one of the Moria epic quests, and there is another epic quest somewhere before Rohan that has you skirmishing. It meant I had to go back and go through the skirmish tutorial and the whole nine years. I didn't even add my traits to my soldier, I just put the skirmish on the lowest level possible and bullied my way through.

Yeah, I totally get what ThomasFlora means.

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Originally Posted by grisbald

So far I'm satisfied with HD. I like to take my time and enjoy the game, read the quests, etc. Been playing the game for 7 years now. Been burned out several times, take about a month break, then come back and have fun again.

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That's how I am. I take breaks. Actually Skyrim and Rome Total War have had me taking really long breaks. :p "Rome will be amazed at such a glorious victory. The day is ouuuuurs!" :D

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Originally Posted by Nymphonic

I didn't even add my traits to my soldier, I just put the skirmish on the lowest level possible and bullied my way through.

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Nice to know I'm not the only one who did that. I always did the skirmishes at the lowest possible level to get them over with as quickly as possible.

I give HD 2 out of 10.

Epic Quest lines all the way to Big Battles you just click, move to x spot then win (you can even afk and get rewarded). Graphics is the only thing that is good, but can't really PLAY a game just by beautiful scenery. There was no difficulty within the gameplay and I don't feel like i'm part of the adventure/struggles within Middle Earth.

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Originally Posted by Andthelion

Why should they budge? why should they have to relearn their class? You need to get over the fact that people dont like the changes now, its getting tired. We get it your a little bit scared lotro is going to have problems because of the negativity surrounding the expansion and the class changes, but instead of waiting for people to budge or get over it, why not accept the fact that a lot of people dont like it, turbine got it wrong and things have to change or the game is going to suffer?

As you said its been a week and still people are unhappy, they still dont like the class changes, they still dont like BBs or the easy mode landscape mobs, maybe just maybe its not the players thats the problem here its what they have been given to play with.

You have no choice anymore but to listen to these people that are not happy, they are leaving and that is only going to hurt your game time in the end, check the steam graphs, sure they are not a definitive representation but there are 40% less people playing lotro on steam than on launch day, its been decreasing everyday since it went live.You can dress it up and argue all you like that is not a success, that is not good news.There is nothing on the internet saying anything good about HD, any gaming forums , any online magazine its all bad press. It has to change or no-one is going to come to the game to replace the people who are leaving.

If you think criticising people on the forums for not budging or telling them the obvious to read their tool tips is going to change anyone's mind you are wrong, there are a lot of people who have tried them, they have tried to like them and the fact is they don't, telling them they are letting the community down is not going to make them suddenly like them and start playing and spending money again.

No-one is saying they dont like change, they are saying they dont like THESE changes, had the trees been implemented better and not been so restrictive, there would not be this out cry, had BBs been made with the people who play tanks, healers and support classes in mind maybe they would find them interesting, had they been released finished instead of a buggy mess people might like them more, had the landscape not been 1 - 2 fest people may have enjoyed levelling more. But that isnt what they got , they got straight jacket style restrictive trees, Boring, DPS orientated big skirms, and faceroll landscape that requires no thought, thats why they are unhappy, thats why they are complaining and leaving and spending less money, and until you accept that and respect their thoughts and accept that things need to change for these people, they will keep complaining and keep leaving and all the people that keep telling them to get over it will suffer in the end.

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Sorry mate i am with him. I was on Beta and all i heard was "take this on live and you ll destroy the game blah blah blah". You dared try to say its a positive change and they where coming down to eat you. All i see now is constantly people online. I dont know if the expansion will be proved to be good or bad or if it will last. I know for a fact though that since launch there was no rage quit and no destruction cause of the class changes. In fact most people like it, i think.
i think turbine got this round.
As for the community he has a point. You have the right to cry,to complain, to ask for unreasonable refunds, but do it once. Some people try to attack viciously everything just to pass the irritation to everyone else about the changes. Thats not nice...
On to other matters i havent yet buy the HD for personal reasons but i have played it on Beta so...

Plus: Landscape 9/10 (And not 10/10 because the worst of better is best)
Epic line: 8/10 Some more attention finaly with voices and all
Quests 6/10 Not bad some where really good but some really used already and boring..
Music: 2/10 You cant realease HD such a critical moment in middle earth history with that music... i am sorry.
Trait system: 10/10 (Not because its perfect. It's not!! Because its new, its exciting and to my opinion what the game needed mostly even more than the expansion)
House changes: so far 0/10
Hobby: do we have a minus? -5/10? Abandoned
War horses: 4/10
Difficulty: 1/10 Non existant
Big battles: ? be fair thats the only feature i havent tried very much so i wont give marks , but from the least i saw it seemed confusing and not ready.
Farming: 0/10 Hell to the know. I gave up when Erebor came out. See where your thinking lies and i am not willing to support it
Long term playability: Difficult to say. All depends of how big battles will be accepted in big groups and what comes next. If the result it is pretty much the same like erebors i ll think it will kill the game. Wait and see i gues.
Marketing: 0/10 Annoying didnt help me or made me any interested. also felt a bit suspicious.
Sapience patience: 10/10 enough said.

Finally... Beta team: 7/10 There was really people who worked and helped tremendously cause i was in phase 1 and saw and the changes where fantastic. but the 3/10 missing goes to quite a group that came to see if they like the game and make it their work to propaganda the whole thing.

Overall for me 5/10. if i have something to blame for a low score maybe it comes down to what resources you have to work on...

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Originally Posted by Pelethor

As for the community he has a point. You have the right to cry,to complain, to ask for unreasonable refunds, but do it once. Some people try to attack viciously everything just to pass the irritation to everyone else about the changes. Thats not nice...

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It works both ways. The same applies to all the posters who seem to trying to earn the title "Fanbois" with their attacking anyone who has dared to say that they don't like HD, the skill trees or anything else. Some players have quit, said why and been demonized. Others have stated what they think is wrong and been called 'Whiners' and 'Troublemakers', even 'Trolls'. I think it's about time Turbine did some proper policing of these forums and made EVERONE refrain from attacking anyone with a different opinion!

I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere about the glitch with the map in HD. There is no "close" button on HD maps! Twice I have instinctively reached up to close my map and accidentally closed the game!!! The close button is still there on pre-HD maps though.

I'm actually surprised how little outcry there has been on the forums. Maybe a lot of people left sliently, but I expected a lot more reaction than I have actually seen. What the significance is, I do not know, and am not prepared to speculate.