Printable View
If we're making Blue line suggestions, my one request is for a minor trait tree option that boosts our companion's land speed, perhaps 5%/10%/25%. I am so sick of telling the critter to attack some orc chasing my teammate, and no good coming of it because they are both moving at the same bloody speed.
Please no, keep the Eagle as a trait that can be selected even in a different spec. Eagle was originally designed as a legendary trait that was accessible regardless of spec, it was only put into Blue line at Helms Deep but leaving it within reach for possible cross-traiting. Please let it stay accessible as originally intended.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arathrinn
I agree, Inner Flame needs bigger heal to justify its blue-exclusive status.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arathrinn
What about making Sic 'Em an auto-target skill? Select a target, summon Sic 'Em, and the animals automatically attack the target you already have targeted?Quote:
Originally Posted by Arathrinn
I agree this skill is kinda clunky. But if the Command Pet skill to direct Sic 'Em swarm was added exactly for the purpose to 'eat up' a moment of time, the animals moving towards target eats up even more time. Increasing moving speed of Sic 'Em animals might make this more efficient.
Omg I love this. LM has dreadfully lacked an in-combat rez, and it makes so much sense for LM to have it in some form.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arathrinn
p.s. Is it just me, or is Saber Cat mediocre at dps? I hope it gets a boost in AoE damage so it's worth summoning, I get much faster turnaround with Lynx while Saber Cat feels like it just auto-attacks.
Absolutely should be a thing but trait for such a thing really needs to be in deep blue line with long internal CD put on the summoning of the pet when it gets consumed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aelir
Maybe in style of:
- Move catmint as blue line passive to make blue line more favorable spec in groups (replace peerless wisdom)
- Replace catmint trait with skill that allows eagle to choose target which it revives move it 25 points deep into blue so other lines can't just pick it automatically.
Vastin the power restore is still a big issue, tho the moors is i guess fine now power wise there are instance that drain your power (like the nazguls on throne) there are mechanics that remove power so my recommendation is to just REMOVE THE CD ON SHARE THE POWERQuote:
Originally Posted by Vastin
Sabre-cat is my go-to for landscape tanking. Yes, her single target DPS is 2/3 that of the bear, but she's vastly more effective at gathering enemies up into tight groups to burn to the ground. And she seems to crit more often, meaning thanks to Critical Coordination, *I* crit more often.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aelir
Here is my general idea of the blue line.
I believe there is enough passive interactions between pet and LM. I would like to see more active interactions like flanking. Damage wise I expect the same single target dps* as red line but the damage is done from cooperation between pet and LM. Main sources should be flank bonus damage from staff strike (but it should deal like 5-7 times more damage in blue line + increased flanking rate in blue line) and 1st line bonus in blue line (bonus damage from pets if burning embers are on the target – doesn’t work today. It would be also interesting if this bonus damage wouldn’t be common. It could be light e.g.).
While the pets should do reasonable dps by themself, they shouldn‘t be able to survive the enemy on their own. (Because this allows so called farming LMs). Their survival should be bound to healing and debuffing potential of LM. With the exception of the bear.
These simple ideas will make blue line more proactive than passive. Instead of „LM is doing his own thing“ and „pet is doing its own thing“ and some passive procs come out, they will be forced in cooperation which brings different playing style in comparison to the red line (pure damage, no concentration on the pets) or the yellow line (pure support, change pets every few second to keep up all dmg increasing debuffs). It would be more buffing oriented style with flexibility depending on the summoned pet.
*with lynx same single target dps, with other pets lower. Some aoe possibilities but much weaker aoe damage than in red line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastin
Soooooo..........
You went ahead and messed with the LM Power Share without fixing the spider power drain, huh?
So they nerfed share the power AND with the updates to the enchantment runes LM damage actually decreased.
Net result: they nerfed one of the most gimpy classes in the game.
LMm at level 50, was arguably the strongest class. Now it's almost certainly the weakest.
Seriously, Devs?
And you went ahead and posted that, without actually checking if Toxin was nerfed or not. (Yes it isn't in the patch notes)Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate
It was, and now deals about 1/3 of damage to power than what it used to.
I read and do not believe my eyes, but many do not show discontent with the new red line. And yet, let me remind you, this is a damage line. That is the one in which we cause permanent, not short-term damage. You understand? And now I have to stop using it. Because of no reasonable damage on a solo-target (it never was), but lost 2/3 of the potential AoE-damage, which rested on two skills (Improved Sticky Gourd + Wizard's Fire). Do I need to explain it or you'll just pass by the Training-dummy, at least in any Mordor's daily? And now you're calling for a change in blue. I'm sure you think that the work done with the blue line will be no less outstanding than with the red one. So many wishes... And so many naive people...
And how often did you do quests in the red line, or more and more shyly hiding behind a bear in the blue? I wouldn't be surprised if soon the bear will be hiding behind you. The main thing is to continue to support "improvements". Further... Do you have any idea why the cooldown and the duration of stun-immunity differ for a couple of seconds the greatest good? Never heard of the "smart guys" demanding to keep stun-immunity on the whole raid? I see that some players have not heard. And for what was need a quick and hassle-free conversion of burning embers into searing embers? By the way, do you remember that once we were simply forced to turn the first into the second. And now we should do this not with an instant skill but with skill which has a cooldown of 10 seconds and a monstrous time of application. Is that what you all wanted? Or maybe you're just embarrassed to express your disagreement?
Taking this opportunity, I would like to draw SSG attention to the following moment... The number of targets for the Gust of Wind is the same as for the Improved Sticky Gourd... Please, be so kind to remove the damn induction from this skill and stop this madness with the probabilities to improving DoTs on nearest targets. We need all of these DoTs to be improved just after Gust of Wind used. Is it too much? By the way, you simply took away what we already had in base before update and grantly offered to "return" it with trait-points in such horrable form. Surprised that the each "step" for DoTs improving is whole 20%, not 10% or 5%.
Dear lore-masters, and especially those for who this is a main character, don't you see that these changes is only complicated our game and we're in a quagmire, not confidently go on the road. And this is also due to those who supported the proposed "improvements". Now they are with us for an indefinite period (perhaps years). Because the developers, that giving us a "new clumsy" mechanics are pretty sure that they did everything and the question is closed. If so, it's time to do the character's start screen description more relevant. Something like this - the Lore-master is a class for players who don't need anything and are willing to take on countless problems without any benefits to themselves.
One more thing... Do you know what damage was linked by wardens and hunters from the Abyss after the installation of U22.2? Let me clarify - it's an AoE-damage (in theory, this is our fiefdom). If not, then ask, I don't wanna break the wow-effect. I just tell, if you've been afraid of too competitive damage from LM's red line... Well... This task SSG coped brilliantly. We aren't even close with all our damage, we just the statistics error in the background of these figures. Needn't have worried. And what's happened with water-lore? Is it really necessary to force us to wait first HoT 4 seconds without any healing in the beggining? Does it break the ballance somehow? Why we just can't get something without the weakening? I'm so sick of it.
Why wasn't it in the release notes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyledor
Pics?
My Loremaster feedback would be similar to another player that has posted on this page - I played primarily red-line LM and noted a large decrease in AOE dps due to ROF downgrade to a single target skill, and some other skill mechanics.
I played solo, probably 90% of the time.
I suppose that the class changes were (or seem to me to be) aimed towards endgame raiding content, based on the posts by players and response by developers in the various sections on the forums.
I only played 3 classes on a regular basis, Loremaster, Runekeeper and Burglar , all at level cap.
I expected the Runekeeper to get a dps downgrade from the information from the developers concerning the slotted runes (mine had 2 mid-range) on the runestone and satchel.
What I did not expect, until release notes were posted was the AOE dps decrease for the Loremaster.
And my biggest disappointment was the blindside decrease on my red-line Burglar dps skills (all but Cunning Attack)
I had about 2.75 years or more of /played time between these 3 characters.
Based on the outcome of this latest update's effect on my characters, and the way some of it was implemented by the developers, I decided to cancel my sub., and maybe return at some later point, or not at all.
I will say that I had great fun in Lotro over the past 8 years, and met some excellent players.
Not sure where you are getting your information from, but it appears you've been swayed by over-reactions on general forum... To clarify on the points you raise:Quote:
Originally Posted by galstenog
Ring of Fire is bugged, its aoe nerf was unintended. It's on the list of known issues in patch notes and due to be fixed.
This is only phase one of class re-balancing, with more adjustments to come - including LM DPS adjustments. Described intention in patch notes was to increase Red LM DPS, finding it still lower than adequate is concerning (others found so too) but the adjustments are still in progress - it's not over.
Runekeeper and Burglar haven't gotten their turn yet in class balance changes. Only a minor tweak or two so far, but actual class re-balancing work on them will come in future update. If you find some (new?) problems impacting their skills, now is the best time to drop into RK/Burg feedback threads and comment there about the issues you're having - devs are reading these and your post will bring it to attention.
To burst the bubble on "changes meant for raiders" myth... Unlike the assumptions on general forum, actual beta feedback came/comes from players in all ranges of levels. Nobody mentions their toon level/experience when posting, but class familiarity is not predicated on capped raiding. My LM main (with exp disabler) is still 84 after 6 years. Changes in skill rotations had rather to do with eliminating over-reliance on same couple of buttons in favor of diversifying rotations - something that impacts players on all levels, and all levels can share how it impacts them, since playstyles differ.
Stick around... Don't let vibe on general forum impact your game decision, it's mostly same back and forth between those who weren't keeping up with feedback gathering process. Most of the things you mention are actually in process of getting fixes and haven't been finished yet.
I wish that they remove gust of wind entirly and add its abilities to Wind Lore (same targets, same cd, same elemental affiliation, it even has a similarity function in yellow)
Add the damage of GoW to the upgraded Ember dot and let it trigger the breeze when you upgrade Wind lores rank.
Beside that after summening pets we still have a more than annoying delay
Frostlores animation is still stupidly long
Also renoviert Initial heals/damage from Hots/dots seems to be just a pretty bad choice to me
The Wizard Fire legacy is now useless since it doesn't have a crit anymore. I forgot the name of the second useless legacy. Of cause without Legacy Replacement Scrolls I won't be able to switch them to more useful legacies. Thank you.
What does this mean ? I'm confused. The legacy is still there and it's the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by wispsong
The skill itself crits just fine and the crit is useful to proc the red set bonus to reset lightning storm. Also WF is the best pull/tag skill lm has.
Got confused reading all these tool tips.
It was. Look at the LM section.Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate
Just going to put this here.
Lm DPS is on a great spot atm.
DPS parses on dummies were extremely missleading , due to sticky gourd not procing ember dots on them , no fierce lightning proc and clunky dot spreading.
Only extra things i'd like to see is a 100% chance to spread embers ( cross-fire dot ) when using gust of wind ( through the mighty wind trait in red tree ) and slightly shorter cd on ents go to war.I realise there is a 15 sec cd reduction through staff sweep but even if you rotate that often , the base 5 minute cooldown on the skill makes it rarely used.
The ember dots finally seem to work , stack and upgrade properly.
Some might disagree , but gust of wind seems to be a good spot atm , as long as we get a 100% embers spread mentioned above through traiting.
With proper traiting the class is amazing fun to dps on trash pulls or aoe boss fights without being OP at all.
Thank you Vastin.
I’m sorry, but I have to say I’m disappointed regarding latest Loremaster changes.
Wizards Fire should stay as a way to upgrade Burning Embers to Searing Embers. Now it is pretty useless in rotation 1-2-3 follow-up, when it could easily be left alone. Searing Embers will be followed up by either lightning for cashout, or Gust of Wind. The only thing wrong here was long GoW induction. With shorter induction of 1,2s now it’s easy to spread the Embers first and then cashed up on multiple mobs at once. Is it possible to add to GoW legacy a +…% critical chance to occur, to use Pleasant Breeze more often? Would be great to have it at 30 - 40% chance.
Why Power of Knowledge isn’t leeching morale from mobs anymore? Iirc, I couldn’t leach also while spar duels? It was great way of healing myself when taking on fatter Elites and not rely solely on Wisdom of Council. I don’t put much hope on Flanking heals either.
From level 90 up I noticed a drop in Lynx survivability and damage. Is this a thing or am I hallucinating? And bear as a tank has trouble keeping aggro.
Everything else seems pretty OK to me on red and yellow lines. DPS was fine even before the upgrade, but since we got that, well, wiiiiiiiii.
I agree Power of Knowledge should get the heal back. Why was this removed. It was always a fun skill to use. And there were emergency situation where it saved my life. Water-Lore also has been messed around with. Now I might as well just use Burning Embers. Wisdom of the council has a 5 min cd so can't be used twice in a fight at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by PeroXpress
After a week of landscape questing with new changes (lots and lots of on-level mob slaying, doing dailies), I find the new rotation refreshing and dynamic. Nice pace with the added -% induction trait tier, and reasonable combat skill cooldowns prompting variety in rotation instead of same 1-2. Searing Embers needed this change imo, no more ''boring embers'' spam. Even routine mob killing has become interesting and fun.
Found a good use to Wizards Fire as a quick finishing move, if my Lightning Strike ember cashout doesn't crit and leaves a scrap of morale on a mob. Getting very nice crits with Wizards Fire (I still have the legacy for it on my used LI), so it can still be worked into rotation strategically.
Hey folks, witch a lot of work regarding the red line is done, I'd like to share my thoughts about the changes and my point of view.
A quick introduction to myselfe:
My main character is Estefhania, former known as Kihrin, I'm the main Loremaater of the raid kinship Avorthalier. In raids I only play my LM on Yellow line without using any dog spell, but I do play my LM on red as well because I play my LM in the ettenmoors.
First of all my thoughts about the red line in general, the changes that came with the balancing and changes I'd like to see in the future.
The red Loremaster:
For me, the red LM is made for questing and obviously for the ettenmoors. If you got some equip I'd say it's pretty easy to quest and kill questmobs and stuff like that, because the LM got lots of dmg spells, most of them are AoE which is perfect for questing, you got some selfheal and CD which is solid all round kit. The only negative aspects is that the base dmg of many LM skill are way below dmg skills of other damage dealer.
But what isn't working as intended, useless or isn't working at all?
For me the LM got some skills that are pretty much useless, for example Ents go to War. The skill itself doesn't sound too bad, it is a skill with high base dmg, AoE and an AoE stun, but what is the problem? The first problem is the animation/induction time, it's all together something like 4 or 5 seconds, other classes like the Champion could use 3 or 4 skills in the same time, would still be able to move and would deal something like 3 times the dmg a LM would do. But that's not the only problem, because if you want to use the skill you need the legendary attribute to deal more dmg with Ents go to War, for a skill that has 5 min cooldown, which feels pretty much wasted.
Another example is Natures Fury, is a bit the same like Ents go to War, at first it sounds nice but the truth is, the skill is just bad. It's a skill with low cooldown (30sec), it deals dmg to a single target, but deals lot of dmg if there are many enemies around the target. But again, what is the problem about that skill? The biggest problem is the skill itself, it's a skill made for many targets, the more targets you got, the more dmg you deal. But where do we got many targets at the same time? The answer is: just in raids. But it's useless to play a LM on red in a raid because a LM is way more usefully on Yellow line and there are other classes who deal more single target dmg and there are also classes that deal more AoE dmg. So why should anyone want a red LM in their own raid? The answer is, there is no reason. What I want to say, is, that the skill itself is pretty strong, but it just isn't made for the LM.
There are also some minor issues like low base dmg skill (e.g. Gust of Wind) and a "hidden" problem, the animation time. What I mean is, that many skills are strong enough but the time you need to spend to cast the skill and the time the animation takes is sometimes way to high. Like the Ents go to War example.
A few thoughts about the changes that are already live:
In my opinion it is good to bring back gust of wind, but I don't like it that I need to use Gust of Wind to upgrade Burning Ember, because it wasn't even OP at all the be able to upgrade 3 burning embers at the same time but nowadays you need to use Gust of Wind on cooldown if you want to extend your dps. For me it should be like in the past, make Wizard fire the skill to upgrade Burning Ember and let Gust of Wind just be a (strong) AoE skill with low cooldown. Because since Wizardfire isn't the skill to upgrade Burning Ember, it's more or less a skill for doing deeds :D I really like that Wizardfire isn't a dot anymore and that it's base dmg is increased, but without the upgrading aspect it feels kinda useless.
All the other changes that have been done already are really good in my opinion.
Hopefully you all understand what I want to say, because I'm not that good at explaining things :D
Cheers Estefhania
In some aspects i agree with that, but not in all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranmazu
They are many 3 man and 6 man instances where a an LM can bee or need to be the DD. But you right, usually an LM is needed as a Debuff/Support Class for Raids (esp. for T2)
The real problem with this skills is the animation time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranmazu
They are so many circumstances where this skills are quite useful. Maybe not in the moors, but landscape and/or instances. With the current changes the red LM is for me really fun again. To lower the induction time an LM can go to red-blue.
Where i see a major problem: on the Staff we have only damaging legacies which are mostly only useful if an LM go red. As you said: playing as an LM in Raid T2, we have much more to do then using damaging skills.
Here i would like to see some merging/consolidation in the future. Like: "Base Damage of Nature's Furry Skills" and also some more Skill/Trait-Tree clarification in that case: like Ring of Fire is only available in the Master of Nature's Fury-Tree but doesn't count as a Nature's Furry Skill (i have no idea why this skill is a "lost lore") and then some legacies, which are useful for the other Trees.
But back to EgtW and NF: i did yesterday just for fun an Abyss T1 run as DD LM. And it was really fun. In such situations, a well-played and well-equipped LM does not have to be ashamed compared to a champion. For single-target damage: at Fingar my damage was up to 35K (ok, it was T1, but in my group we didn't have a Cappy.) I use different Book+Staff for Single and for AoE damage.
You also right with that, that the legacy for EgtW is not worth to slot it. Albeit i still use EgtW often for the 6s stun (if i have more that three targets).
Is there any word on when the next round of changes will be announced? I'd hate to think they are leaving the current classes where they stand now, with so many issues unaddressed. Some improvements were made, but there are many long-standing bugs that have existed since the inception of trait trees that were completely overlooked, as well as new ones that were introduced for most every class... Not to mention blue-line really didn't see any meaningful changes whatsoever.
A list of long-standing bugs/issues that were not addressed:
- Staff-Sweep damage is delayed about 2 seconds from the skill animation.
- Burning Embers spread using Gust of Wind while spec'd red are not able to be upgraded to Searing Embers.
- Searing Embers created from Burning Embers only stack with Burning Embers created from Improved Sticky Gourd; Searing Embers created from Sticky Gourd do not stack with Burning Embers created from Improved Burning Embers. (If a target has 3 Burning Embers applied from Improved Sticky Gourd, casting the skill Burning Embers will overwrite these currently active DoT's, while Burning Embers from Improved Sticky Gourd will always stack alongside Burning Embers from the skill.)
- Searing Embers only stacks up to three times. (I know this is by design, but now with a cooldown again on our Searing Embers upgrade, Gust of Wind, I don't think this artificial limit is necessary.)
- Lightning Cashout damage always prioritizes Searing Embers over Burning Embers.
- Stun immunity (Sign of Power: Righteousness) does not apply when used on a target that is rooted during the application, yet still goes on cooldown.
- All Target Resistance legacies (Fire/Damaging/Debuffing Skills) do not do anything/increases enemy resistance depending on who tested it.
- Enfeeble does not properly account for the bonus provided by the Sign of Power Durations/Ratings legacy. (here)
- Debuffs that tier-down after the first 10s because of Enfeeble can be resisted during this tiering-down.
- Pet cooldown clockfaces do not always accurately reflect the cooldown time remaining on skills. (Also true for captain and spider pets.)
- The blue trait Loyalty will go on cooldown without a pet being summoned (should not work if no pet is out).
- The skill Shatter Arms for the bear pet tests against resistance when it should test against physical avoidance.
- Fire/Frost-lore skills have a higher resistance than all other debuffs (excluding secondary debuffs). (here)
- Loremasters require a ridiculous amount of finesse to be reliable in t2 instances (see above link).
- Loremaster secondary debuffs (Turn Up the Heat, Warm Up, Deep Freeze, Cool Off, and lightning debuffs) are resisted at a much higher rate than anything else on any class.
- After traiting Wild Fire/Chill Wind (yellow), Fire/Frost Lore will not refresh when cast on a target already debuffed by these skills. Only Wind Lore will refresh them.
- Burning Embers DoT effects created by Improved Sticky Gourd do not show up when the Effect Display Options for Selection is checked (don't count as effects "cast by you").
- Wisdom of the Council suffers from the immediate skill bug. (sometimes goes on cooldown when double-clicked without casting its effect.)
- Pleasant Breeze trait still says it increases % power restored in description.
- Pleasant Breeze heal magnitude is much too low considering unreliable proc chance.
- Water-Lore has no initial heal anymore (first heal it provides is delayed by 4s).
- Fourth tier of Ring of Fire trait still gives the increased radius despite no longer saying so in the trait description.
- Inner Flame heal magnitude is negligable at level cap, especially for pets with upwards of 300k morale.
- Eagle's Sacrifice (eagle rez) only works when it is actively attacking something, not when on passive.
- Catmint doesn't increase pet skill damage despite saying it does.
- Staff-skill/autoattack damage hasn't scaled since level 100.
- Staff sweep doesn't restore power anymore when used on a flanked target.
- Stamp out the Fire (blue, tier 1 sidebar) does nothing.
- After summoning any combat pet, there is a brief skill delay where you can't use any skills.
- The tier 3 blue trait Prepare for War has not scaled to account for Mordor stat inflation.
Some of these may have since been stealth-fixed as I haven't tested many in at least a year, so if anything is outdated please call me out on it. Also, if I missed any, let me know. I'll update the list as needed.