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Originally Posted by KarooOstrich
This makes me laugh. So if someone agrees with you they are awesome but if they do not agree they are just towing the party line because they are part of the player council?
Let me say this clearly. I speak for myself. My opinions. My words. Not Turbines, not the player councils.
And rep jewelry was sold because you needed to buy the xpac or qp to do the deeds, oh yea and raid gear is sold because again you need the xpac or IC to do the raids to get the drops, please. Not liking something is perfectly legitimate, twisting things up doesn't help anyone make an informed decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by KarooOstrich
Remember you have a SHIELD. Early in the game we had medium armor. There are people who specifically chose Minstrel as it was not one of those super squishy healers that could not even do solo quests without help and was forced to group constantly. If a one class can solo the landscape quests, then EVERY class should be able to solo the landscape quests.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkor
Remember in Moria when many minstrels sat it out because things were too messed up, and soon other classes get to end game and started whining that there were no healers? Champions were main tanking (guardian threat was messed up too) and they could only do this if someone sat there and spammed heals. And then they had the temerity to suggest "your job is to heal me!" So if minstrels aren't playing the game after HD because it's too hard to solo or get around then the number of healers able or willing to group is going to start shrinking again. Insulting minstrels is not going to encourage them to heal you any more than it did in Moria.
So you are comparing acquired gear to actual points available to spend in your 'new' skill tree's?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gedachtnis
C'mon guys, yer gettin' yer grumpies all up in ma lotro. Quit it!
Can anyone tell us more about crafting?
I am glad that I have provided you with some amusement.Quote:
Originally Posted by kickman77
It is not a matter of posters stating something that I may or may not agree with, it is just 'my' oberservation of what to me is a blatantly obvious trend.
Alas, I am in danger of playing the man and not the ball.
Please ignore my senseless ramblings.
As I said before if this tree system is going to take 1 or 2 years before it becomes viable its a failure, why should we sit around waiting to get back the flexibility and diversity we had up till these changes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Belnavar
My point of view is these trees arent designed to work now they are designed to peak in a year or 2 and that is utterly foolish, its the reason they wont budge on the out of spec penalty, its the reason so many things are gated, I dont want to be given a tree system that has a chance of coming good sometime in the future I want a tree system that is viable and fun from day, and IMO this is far from that.
No, I'm saying things that advance toons, be it gear, virtue points, quests, deeds etc. requiring buying the xpac or IC or QP is nothing new or unique to LotRO nor pretty much any mmo.Quote:
Originally Posted by KarooOstrich
Isn't this exactly what we have now? You run a skraid or scaled instance multiple times and get random gear from the chest at the end (most of the time nothing but relics), or the incredibly rare one-shot recipes. The only predictable thing is Hytbold gear or crafted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky_baby
Sigh I am sick of saying this but lets try again..... THE TREE SYSTEM is what we wanted to discuss that is the big change not the fluffy things that fill them up, it makes no sense whatsoever to discuss what skills should go where in a system many people believe to be fundamentally flawed, we wanted to fix the system the classes were operating in before we started tinkering with the finer details, and I say again, there has NEVER been and still isnt an official feedback thread on the biggest change within this expansion, the change that has caused more conversation and debate than all the other topics combined , the change that will effect absolutely everyone regardless of playstyle, regardless of level, regardless of experience, class, age gender creed etc etc, the class changes cannot be avoided, skipped around, ground out. Yet there was never during the whole beta phase any dialog whatsoever asking how we felt about the out of spec penalty, skills gating, cookie cutter builds absolutely nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by kickman77
I find it ridiculous that there was no where we could go to leave focused feedback on the trait tree system, no where official we could go to engage with devs regarding how many points we have available, how expensive things are, even the look of the trees and how they were navigated. They issued class surveys that asked NOTHING about the tree system, despite people asking them to do the same thing with the trait trees they refused to even acknowledge we asked and thus never once got a trait tree system focused survey.
The extreme random nature of the loot in the current scaled as well as newer isntances is a new development. It was only implimented upon RoR Launch I believe.
Whilst initially well received, it has now grown to be loathed by most endgame players.
Not only has the 'perceived' broken nature of certain loot tables now led to certain of the easier instances just being run into infinitum(Sambrog anybody?), the total random nature of the system has led to potentially running a t2c Raids and receiving absolutely nothing other than bounties/relics.
The above however, is most likely best to another discussion, and has already been spouted about ad nauseam.
I am very very suprised this feris wheel isn't being changed.
Can't help but notice that a lot of people are getting labeled as shills or accused of lying just for voicing their opinion, and frankly it's embarrassing. It's one thing to express dislike for something, it's another entirely to slander those you disagree with.
I'm not going to say positive or negative either way, but as one of the compilers of the player summaries, mathematically speaking this is correct for the hunter at least. Best I can tell, when you count the skills removed, and then add new skills, it's a wash.Quote:
It would be erroneous to just say "we lost skills" when we also gained skills, and arguably we did not lose the functionality of any skills we lost. But, for anyone who is curious, don't take my word for it (or TheStormKing's) -- look at the class summaries and you will see for yourself.
-Bel
Functionality is I think too debatable. Based on the numbers alone, hunters may have lost some self heals, but have gained DPS and CC in some cases. So, that's just up the the beholder, really.
I cannot speak for other classes as I did not spend as much time on them. In the case of the captain specifically (yes I have one I played on BETA) I don't know if it's functionally worse or better, but it's very, very different and I'll need to put more hours into it before I can come to a conclusion.
Libel, not slander. This is in written form. But yes, I agree with you. The only advice I'm trying to give other players who are in my kin, or are friends is to try and get your hands on a BETA key, try it out, and then make the purchase that your money, time and gaming interests allow. The changes are so different, it's just not fair to tell someone if they'll like it or not.Quote:
It's one thing to express dislike for something, it's another entirely to slander those you disagree with.
That's all I've ever had on captain since I never acquired gear that gave more, it's probably the most any non-raider and non-pvp player has ever had. And really you don't need a smaller cooldown except to displace main healers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Hunor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Widoch
But what you are completely ignoring is that while the total number of skills may well be the same we can no longer access them all, there are large numbers gated behind inaccessible trees, spending points in one place instantly locks a skill elsewhere. Right now on live (capstones aside) I can use any skill I want anytime, most classes only have around 20 skills left and when i need the other skills the most i.e when in combat there is no way i can get them.
I am forced to decide how I am going to tackle any encounter before it begins, it just railroads my gameplay, makes every fight linear and rigid and stifles any flexibilty and diversity I once enjoyed.
However I totally agree with your last point, I will reiterate again, just because I despise what they have done doesnt mean in any way others will, wait for the open beta, take a good look for yourselves and then decide what you should do, but I strongly advise not buying this expansion until you have seen it firsthand, the changes and end game content is significantly different to anything before it, it is a big risk to spend money on this considering the massive divide it caused in beta.
Id like to say my opinion from what i saw on BR.
About trait trees: Lets face it, we have trait tree on live. Best stuff usually is in 4-set bonuses or >insert colour< legendary. Another fact to notice is that we do too much in every build. We can heal, cc, dmg and debuff in every configuration atm. Trait trees are making things more focused on role you choose and give opportunity to get some other tools from other trees at the cost. System works very good for all classes and usually you will want to reach the final tier of tree when you choose your spec. Trait trees work very good and are a fun system and more complex then current system, which brings a lot more possible combinations.
About class changes: Awesome job was done. Classes feel fresh and fun and focused on roll you choose. Classes atm are doing everything in any situations. They put high dps, heal, cc, debuff etc, all at more-less same time. This made the game extremely easy since and instances were done while ignoring most of the mechanics. There is a lot of moaning about some skills that are removed. They arent. If skill is removed, its either useless on live or effects of this skill are added into some other skill, or into one of the traits. All useful skills are here, only difference is that you wont have them all available at the same time.
Lets see some of the examples:
Why should an aoe champ do anything else than aoe skills and few single target skills? Champ is there to do dmg, there are others that will heal him, there is no need for bubbles and dire need. If that skill needs to be used fellowship is doing something wrong.
Why does trickster burg need all high dmg skills if he is there to debuff stuff? Or why does QK burg needs debuffs if he is there to dps? You are there to do your role and nothing else. Debuffing, cc-ing and damaging stuff at the same time is too much. Thats why there are fellowships and different classes.
Same goes with any other class. There is no place for heals on hunters, heavy dmg skills available to healing RKs or heavy defensive skills for wardens and guards on dps.
About landscape: It looks very good. Some very nice sights. Turbine never failed to impress in this field.
About Big battles: I tried them. They brought some very good mechanics into the game, but i dislike chaotic combat. In most of the situations its all about kill the things before they reach objective. Havent spent enough time there to give more feedback
About PVP: Cooldown reductions for creeps look decent. So does increased dmg of the skills. But class changes could hurt this part of the game a lot. Hunter can 2-shot creeps, some abilities for some classes look a bit OP. We will see.
I hope it is a bug.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesm429
Losing nearly 0 morale in auto-attack against 9-10 mobs is just ridiculous.
What do you want to know?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tildo
This is what this beta has been all about. Just a massive, massive amount of vitriol being spouted out of frustration and anger because some people just really hate change. The funny part is, people are complaining that the game is too easy, while whining they don't want to have to relearn their classes or make tough decisions about their builds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinnymac7
This is one positive thing about Big Battles. If you earn enough medals on the top tier, you are guaranteed a good drop that is appropriate to your class and level. No more running endless raids and gambling on whether you'll get a drop. No, it's not perfect - I really want to see armour sets we can work toward - but the drops I saw in beta from the battle medals were pretty darn good.Quote:
Originally Posted by KarooOstrich
my thoughts:
1) Since there were tons of class changes brought about for the future of this game, many players will feel hurt, in the beginning, I suggest players take it slow, we got a full year with these changes, probably more changes to come, just like this past year with MC, if your used to the MC system, keep it up in landscape, dismount and feel out your newly changed classes slowly until you get a full grasp of their power, field out all 3 lines using the UI's tabbing, just like MC on live, I use 3 tabs for each style, yet I still prefer my Med WS! each player will have their preferences too, 'tough decisions' are to come regardless!
2) I will say as a Storm Champ I am happy to finally see some serious AOE love for Storm Champs and I can't wait to rock the blender on Crickhollow with the changes going live, I am sorry for the other classes that didn't seem to get the same love that +Jin put in champs, I for one am so excited I decided to roll a fresh champ come the launch of HD to straight level with through all the content as I did with the very first one I rolled after ROI went live, sadly it will be mostly a solo journey as most of my kinmates went to other games permanently, for me LotRO is too fun to just give up on!
3) I also want to thank the beta community for helping take a joke too far that it became an Extra Life goal, can't wait to see the fruits of my jest, would be nice to see also reaction videos pop up in response to a bunch of geeks 'trying' to rap, especially those who receive help from the charity, would make my poor heart melt, *wipes eyes* *groans* "Dirty basement!"
Fellow Geek,
Rev Raven
Crickhollow
PS: and yes, +Sap, it was more fun than I expected to creep in the moors, think I'll roll fresh with the name 'Fodderforkidz' for next year, maybe even do the whole marathon dying on the moors creepside, I'm sure many 1337's would love to take out a solo, gank style, lol!
This is sort of wrong though I think. Who grinds their war horses? It happens without you even thinking about it, just do the quests, the horses get levels, and you're done. You could stop the horse leveling around level 10 and still be very viable in mounted combat on most classes. Mounted combat isn't even necessary except in a few quests, some where it's mandatory you have npcs who can do most of the work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkheart06
LIs I never worry about much. You only need to grind them if you're dedicated raider afraid that someone may find you without a perfect LI. These also just level themselves as you play. Not the perfect legacies, but no big deal really. I get so many relics that I was always able to get the T9 ones I wanted easily on multiple chars, never needing scrolls of relic removal, with only some minor melding. Not grinding instances and skirmishes but enough seals/medallions just from the few that I did do that I could get a few scrolls for some minor improvements. Not as good 2nd age weapons as what I had before in Isengard, but I haven't run across anything that requires better. If you're grinding these it is purely an optional decision.
I got some random drops, never did grinding for them. No need to. Never found anything to upgrade anything (maybe you're referring to rings, never saw any of those jewels drop). This also feels entirely optional.
Grinding is what you make of it. To me grinding means doing something you hate doing just because there might be a reward in it. Ie, working your day job so that you can afford TV and beer. I have not been grinding much at all in this game; if it's not fun for me I don't do it. I have helped out friends doing stuff I wouldn't consider doing solo, I have re-run sambrog multiple times in a row (4) but honestly it felt like fun (ie, timing it and trying to do better) and thus not grinding.
So if you hate big battles, then don't do them! Do them just once for epics then call it quits on them. No one can ever force you to do it but yourself so it's too hard to claim that the game forces you to grind them. There will be scaled instances to do instead, or scaled group skirmishes (which frankly sound more fun than BB since at least you use your class skills).
Playable is one thing, fun is another... Oh yes, I can press 1-2-3, but is it fun? No. Just stop with the "do not want or like change" (be creative for once). I do, but then I would like something that is at least fun or maybe even challenging (now THAT would be something!). HD and the changes are incredibly boring compared to what we have now. To be a part of a BETA where we are told that we say does not matter if it is questioning the direction of the game, then well... no wonder the vocal majority turned into a vocal minority. I found it hilarious that someone asked for an objective view and 3 (three) council members answered. But hey, be content, us awful endgamers are leaving, most have left that I know, and this will be the peaceful Hello Frodo Online that is playable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gagmuk
Oh - landscape and such is gated behind Epic, correct? So no crossing the river without purchasing HD? So no, the zones are not explorable then? (Would love this to be wrong) (It was, only did the Beta through the Epic quest line :) Ty for pointing that out)
I have truly loved this game and I have been passionate about it and dragged most of my relatives into it. Guess what I will be saying now about the game? Good job on making a "playable" game.
The lovely RP-folks on Laurelin will have me coming back - thank you all for being there!
Just an overview (my perspective).
Class changes:
- For some of you, your class(es) will be unrecognisable.
- Your class might not be the 'jack of all trades' anymore.
- Your play style may or may not be effected/restricted.
- Hybridisation has been restricted.
- Some of your skills have been removed or gated behind trees and newer skills have been added (either given by traiting or are baseline).
- Many decommissioned and new LI legacies.
As evident from the above comments, the class changes are still very controversial between beta testers and have sparked pages of heated debates. Without candy coating it, some of the testers disagreed with implementation of the trait trees and not the actual idea of the trees themselves (and they provided plenty of valid, constructive feedback). Others didn't seem to mind them too much. I could give my detailed opinion of them with flowery words and rhetorical devices - but I am not you. The only advice I can give you regarding this change is to stop reading these posts (Yes, I know… :p ) and wait until you can pilot them for yourselves (as the sentiments echoed above).
PvMP:
Creeps have 12 corruption slots. Corruptions now give set bonuses (traiting 3 or 6 of the same type), which can lead to some interesting builds.
Creep skills have been revised with respect to CDs and damage types –
- Orcs/uruks have orc-craft damage (still have some shadow/fire damage skills)
- Wargs have Fell-wrought damage.
Quests: In the same vein as previous expansions. There are plenty of newer war-bands roaming around.
Epics: Still the same type of epics you'd expect from Turbine (RoR/RoI ish)
The potency of crafting recipes (T9) have been boosted, so they’re actually pretty viable as 90+ gear. For instance, lvl90 daggers have three major tertiary stats + an additional modifier, example 16x agil/ 13x vita/ 5x fate + 4xx crit. If you’re a crafter, you should be happy with the changes IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tildo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gagmuk
I really wish people would stop perpetuating this nonsense as a way to completely dismiss criticism (or use it as a passive-aggressive insult). It was enough to have it preached like a mantra for weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by frickinmuck
I have heard this argument a lot and honestly I dont buy it, its a myth, it is certainly not a fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvatardd
Lets look at this "fact" you have given us that we can all heal, cc, dps and debuff in every config.
lets take my champ, he is my main.
Can I Heal a raid? no absolutely not
Can I heal myself? a bit yes, certainly for solo content, could I survive the inferno in BfE without healers? absolutely no chance, could I survive in flight if i pulled some mobs without healers? again no chance.
Can I cc? i have 2 horns that stun for about 5 secs, and hamstring which slows 1 mob, if you think that is a viable cc option, your wrong.
Can I Dps? of course thats my main job
Can I debuff? I have 1 skill (rend) when legacied slightly lowers the armour of the mobs it hits, again hardly stepping on the toes of LMs and burg there am I?
Can I Tank a raid whilst in dps build? Nope not a chance
Can I viably fill a dps spot whilst in tank build? again not a chance.
Next my RK , my second character.
Can I heal a Raid? when heal specced and geared yes, damn well too, can I heal a raid when dps specced? not for any length of time, I may be able to keep the main players up in a raid should the main healer go down, but just try attempting OD Fear wing T2 with ONLY dps specced rks for healers and see how that goes.Or any t2 content for that matter.
Can I Dps? same as above only reversed, try doing a dps race like sword halls t2c with with only heal specced rks for damage and see how well you do.
Can I cc? I have a couple of short term stuns and slows but again nothing that can match burgs, LMs or even hunters.
Can I debuff? actually yeah not too bad, dont have many skills and again a burg and LM are much better options, but they do augment my heal ability.
Can I tank a raid? No , plain and simple and I never will be able to either, tanking isnt just about surviving its about controlling aggro, and in the slight off chance an RK could survive anything big they would never be able to hold aggro as well.
I could go through each and every class like this but everyone knows this "fact" that all classes can do all jobs all the time is completely false.
I have plenty of focus for my roles now in game thank you very much, but at the same time I have options to go with it and flexibility when required.If I wanna dps I spec dps, if I wanna heal I spec heal, sure I can off tank or off heal should the need arise, but to suggest that each and every class can do everything is just 100% incorrect and to try and pass it off as fact in order to justify the reasons for these changes is even worse.
Its the same as this "skill bloat " nonsense that we hear so much about. Skill bloat is a personal thing if YOU think you have to many unused skills on YOUR skill bars then remove them its simple, I dont see why people who enjoy using all their skills need to suffer because some people cant take advantage of a feature already in the game.I dont use Fight on on my champ, so I removed it, I am dual wield so i dont use brutal strikes so that is off as well, see its that easy to solve skill bloat, doesnt require a major overhaul of everyones gameplay and huge amounts of time and money that could have been used on things that players actually wanted(kinship revamp,housing revamp,and dare I say it, decent raids) to solve it.
Why not use the 3rd UI panel (there is one you know) you have your main, your mounted and a spare, thats where I put my mounts , my travel skills, my emotes and fluff skills and guess what my UI isnt cluttered anymore and I have all my skills I use on it.
Dear live forums
Welcome to the pom-pom shaking from the majority of the Player's Council we've had to put up with during the Beta. I'll leave you to make up your own minds about the changes and the new End Game. The brevity of this post is indicative of my feelings.
Good luck.
EDIT: I was another of those 'vocal minority' people.
Which feels strange, because in the past a lot of Betas felt much more polite and restrained than the live forums. Sure there might be a handful who acted like school was just out but they often cleaned up the act when others weren't encouraging them. So if there's rampant vitriol then something's up.Quote:
Originally Posted by frickinmuck
I suspect there were a lot of people anxious to get into beta this time just to decide once and for all if they're staying in the game or not, so they may have gone into beta with the frustration already built up.