-
Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
There are several occasions throughout Middle-Earth where you come across runes written on items. Tolkien created a system of runes based upon the Elder Futhark language first appearing in Sweden around 200 AD, although altered them for his works for the dwarvish language.
Elder Futhark was the first written language of the Scandinavia area, in which each symbol represented an idea rather than a sound in itself. Putting the runes together offers an expression of a particular communication.
What runic symbols have you found throughout the Lotro Middle-Earth? Any in particular that were suggestive and meaningful? I'll start this thread with the following image of the rez circle. The first and final runes are Tolkien, but the center two certainly are appropriate based upon the Elder Futhark alphabet:
1. Tolkien
2. Uruz (strength/determination)
3. Hagalaz (pain/suffering)
4. Tolkien
http://unitedraces.net/assets/images/Aughaire_runes.jpg
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Magnarr
The first and final runes are Tolkien, but the center two certainly are appropriate based upon the Elder Futhark alphabet:
1. Tolkien
2. Uruz (strength/determination)
3. Hagalaz (pain/suffering)
4. Tolkien
Actually, all 4 runes are part of Tolkien's Cirth. These runes belong to the alphabet known as Angerthas Daeron and are the runes used to represent Sindarin. The runes in the picture translate as "kaew":
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...rez_circle.jpg
The runic 'k' is actually meant to represent a Sindarin 'c', however the elvish 'c' is almost always pronounced as a 'k'. With this in mind, the letters "kaew" would actually appear in Sindarin as "caew". So, what does this mean?
Well, "caew" can be used to refer to a resting-place, which seems particularly apt given that the stone circle is where you go to rest after retreating from battle.
Although it is likely just a coincidence, I have also noticed that if you take the phonetic representation of this word ("kaew") and read it backwards, you get "weak", which is exactly what you are after retreating. :p
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Interesting, I was hoping someone would post something like this. I always wondered what the Tolkien-based intention of those runes were.
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
In Moria, above the 21st Hall, in the Chamber of Mazarbul, theres a nice coffin/table, with an inscription on its cover.
Now you got me curious to see what it says. I've gone through the session play so I know the story of that particular area ;) But the runes themselves might even add an extra "touch" to things.
I'll see if I can get a screenshot later.
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mykkul
In Moria, above the 21st Hall, in the Chamber of Mazarbul, theres a nice coffin/table, with an inscription on its cover.
Now you got me curious to see what it says. I've gone through the session play so I know the story of that particular area ;) But the runes themselves might even add an extra "touch" to things.
I'll see if I can get a screenshot later.
According to the book, they read,
"Balin son of Fundin
Lord of Moria"
Whether or not the game has the same translation, I'm not sure. However, I think that it is most likely the same.
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mykkul
In Moria, above the 21st Hall, in the Chamber of Mazarbul, theres a nice coffin/table, with an inscription on its cover.
Now you got me curious to see what it says. I've gone through the session play so I know the story of that particular area ;) But the runes themselves might even add an extra "touch" to things.
I'll see if I can get a screenshot later.
You're referring to Balin's Tomb, whose inscription is taken directly from the books.
Here I am standing before it:
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...alins_tomb.jpg
And here is how it appears in the books, along with my translation:
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...tomb_runes.jpg
The runes above the red letters represent Khuzdul and are written in Angerthas Moria, while the runes above the blue letters represent English (Westron/Common Speech) and are written in Angerthas Erebor. The bottom runes are a common translation of the upper runes. As you can see, the uppers runes translate as:
"BALIN
FUNDINUL
UZBADKHAZADDÛMU"
The lower runes represent the common translation of this:
"BALIN SON OF FUNDIN LORD OF MORIA"
Keep in mind that the runes represent sounds. That is why you see "SUN" in place of "SON" and "OV" in place of "OF".
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
* SPOILER WARNING *
This post describes in great detail an artifact located in Moria. This item sits openly exposed in the Great Delving and doesn't play any significant role in the story, but if you'd rather search for it on your own, you'll want to avoid reading this. I will warn you, however, that it is very easy to pass by this item without realizing what it really is. Still, if you'd prefer to discover this artifact on your own, click the link below to skip the following 4 posts (including this one), which all describe the item:
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?p=3417437
Here's another batch of runes I've translated. First and foremost, this discovery belongs to Hitorichan of Landroval. I was merely asked to help translate the runes as described in Hitorichan's story, "Sharliana's Geode". You've likely seen this amazing find in The Great Delving (at 8.4S, 112.9W), but may never have realized what it was. Well, after examining it for quite sometime, both Sharliana (Hitorichan) and I concluded that it was, in fact, a globe of Arda.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...moriaglobe.jpg
This began to become apparent after I translated the following runes:
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...oriaglobe3.jpg
Realizing that these cirth spelled out the name of the ocean Belegaer, we realized that we were looking at something quite incredible. Soon, we found several other runes as we examined the geode from other angles. All in all, we uncovered the names of several lands and kingdoms. There was even a large blue symbol that Sharliana realized was a marker indicating the location of Moria.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...oriaglobe1.jpg
We also realized that the backside of the geode contained a compass rose. Additionally, the base contained a similar compass that was aligned with the minimap.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...oriaglobe2.jpg
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Translating the globe proved to be both difficult and time consuming. Many of the runes were poorly written and hard to make out with any certainty. As a result, I produced cleaner versions of each of the runes so that others could clearly see and understand the markings on the globe. As you might expect from a discovery in Moria, these runes are written in Angerthas Moria.
We first translated the name of the ocean:
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...k/belegaer.jpg
In addition, we found the name of a mountain range well known to the dwarves:
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...k/eredluin.jpg
Then, we began uncovering the names of several well known kingdoms:
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...hawk/arnor.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...awk/gondor.jpg
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Nearly all the major realms and kingdoms were represented:
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j.../rhovanion.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j..._hawk/rhun.jpg
Interestingly enough, Rohan was represented by its original name (Calenardhon), before it was inhabited by Eorl and his people:
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...alenardhon.jpg
Curiously, the Dark Lands of Mordor were spelled out with an extra letter, likely for the sake of pronunciation:
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...awk/mordor.jpg
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
In small, jumbled runes beneath the name of "Mordorh", very hard to read, we found the name of "Khand":
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...hawk/khand.jpg
And finally, at the very top and bottom of the globe, we identified the names of the far northern and southern lands:
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...forodwaith.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...haradwaith.jpg
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Reddhawk, you deserve....something. Like a pie, or something. I never ever knew the significance of that globe and seeing your translations and diagrams today just opened my mind. Amazing.
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arasilion
Reddhawk, you deserve....something. Like a pie, or something. I never ever knew the significance of that globe and seeing your translations and diagrams today just opened my mind. Amazing.
Thank you, but, as stated, it wasn't really my discovery--only my translations. :)
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
That thing's a globe?! Wow! Good job!
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
wow, this stuffs awsome :)
i love these little tidbits
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
This is fascinating, very nice translation work ReddHawk. Congratulations to Hitorichan as well. That work on the globe sounds incredibly tedious.
I've begun reading through the Atlas of Middle-Earth (K.Fonstad) some time ago, and it will be interesting to revisit that globe after reading through the First Age section of that book.
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
That is awesome. Things like this make the game so great, the little details and whatnot.
Great job!
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
lol You Devs had too much fun with this ;) Thanks for the massive lore nugget. I betcha tour groups ran past that all the time in Moria's heydays.
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Gah! That globe thingy needed a spoiler alert!!
*catches breath*
I know there are lots of them but can we recommend some books about Tolkien's languages? Those he invented and used, of course, not the dozens he studied and spoke.
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
shipwreck
Gah! That globe thingy needed a spoiler alert!!
*catches breath*
I know there are lots of them but can we recommend some books about Tolkien's languages? Those he invented and used, of course, not the dozens he studied and spoke.
Lots of good info, including book recommendations, at this web site:
Resources for Tolkien Linguistics
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Oooh, nice Easter egg!
...
Pun intended. ;)
-The Gneech :cool:
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Here's another set of runes for all of you to marvel at. But first, let me put up the:
* SPOILER WARNING *
Someone mentioned that I should have done this for the globe, and I'll proabably go back and add one, but this definitely needs a spoiler warning. This item is featured in one of the epic quests and plays a minor role in the lore, even in the books. If you'd rather not see this, then just scroll quickly on down to the next post. :)
Okay, here goes....
The Book of Mazarbul:
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...okmazarbul.jpg
Closeup of the runes:
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...arbulrunes.jpg
As you can see, the runes were rather difficult to make out. The first word was especially hard to read. Fortunately, by enlarging the photos I was able to decipher them. As with most of the runes in Moria, these are Angerthas Moria. As you can see the runes spell out "Katûb Mazarbulu". The second word is instantly recognizable and means, "of Mazarbul". Just as with the inscription on Balin's tomb (uzbad khazaddûmu ~ lord of Moria), the -u ending means "of". Although it does not seem to appear in any Khuzdul word list that I know of, the first word, "Katûb", must clearly mean "Book". I can only conclude that this is a Neo-Khuzdul word construced by Turbine for their use in Moria.
Aside from this obvious example, the translation of "Katûb" as book is further attested to by its use throughout Moria. There are several place names containing this word, such as "Mezel-katub" and "Katub-zahar". Each of these are the names of places that appear to be libraries or archives. Indeed, I believe the name "Katub-zahar" very nearly means "library". We know from the Dwarvish name of Nogrod, Tumunzahar (or "Hollowbold"), that "zahar" means "bold" or "building". Thus, "Katub-zahar" would appear to mean literally "Book-building" or more figuratively, "library".
It would really be nice if Turbine would supply us with their invented lexicons. This sort of translation work would certainly be much easier and less conjectural.
At any rate, I've created a diagram of the runes above for those of you who'd like to see them more clearly:
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...k/mazarbul.jpg
I now return you to your regularly scheduled, safe, spoiler-free browsing.
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Spoiler warning, really? What's being spoiled?
Anyways, great job as usual, Redd. I'm glad that Turbine pays attention to the little details.
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arasilion
Spoiler warning, really? What's being spoiled?
Beats me, but I don't want to risk upsetting anyone. I've always considered spoiler warnings to apply to story details or plot lines, but some folks feel that anything they haven't already seen for themselves needs a warning. For stuff like this, I usually forgo the warnings until someone says something. Otherwise, I'd be tacking spoiler warnings on every other post. :p
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Since Khuzdul is sort of a pseudo-Semitic language, the use of "katûb" for 'book' makes sense. The triconsonantal root K-T-B means 'writing' in a lot of Semitic languages.
Turbine's done this sort of borrowing before--the place names of the Lossoth are pretty straight Finnish. In fact, funny story. There's a crafted bow in the game called Keriä-laulu. Translated literally, that's Finnish (or at least pseudo-Finnish, they might have the inflection wrong) "wind-song". Pretty cool name for a bow, right? Except it's not the noun "wind" (like blowing in the wind), it's the verb "wind" (like winding a watch). DOH! Somebody at Turbine needs to be a little more careful with their Finnish-English dictionary.
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Fantastic work, Reddhawk!
Little details like this make me love Turbine even more.
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Reddhawk
Aside from this obvious example, the translation of "Katûb" as book is further attested to by its use throughout Moria. There are several place names containing this word, such as "Mezel-katub" and "Katub-zahar". Each of these are the names of places that appear to be libraries or archives. Indeed, I believe the name "Katub-zahar" very nearly means "library". We know from the Dwarvish name of Nogrod, Tumunzahar (or "Hollowbold"), that "zahar" means "bold" or "building". Thus, "Katub-zahar" would appear to mean literally "Book-building" or more figuratively, "library".
Just curious, where did you get the translation of zahar from? The only site I can find that mentions the meaning of Tmunzahar gives it as
tûm “bold / delving” (1st decl., type B) (in Tumunzahar, q.v.)
and
*zahar “hollow” (adj.) (in Tumunzahar, q.v.)
This of course would mean that Katub-zahar means Book-hollow or Hollow-book instead (or even Hollow of the book).
Source: http://forodrim.org/daeron/md_khuzdul.html
:)
e.h.b
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
e_h_b
Just curious, where did you get the translation of zahar from? The only site I can find that mentions the meaning of Tmunzahar gives it as
tûm “bold / delving”
(1st decl., type B) (in
Tumunzahar, q.v.)
and
*
zahar “hollow”
(adj.) (in
Tumunzahar, q.v.)
This of course would mean that Katub-zahar means Book-hollow or Hollow-book instead (or even Hollow of the book).
Source:
http://forodrim.org/daeron/md_khuzdul.html
I checked several sources actually, but here are a few that verify it:
http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/khuzder.doc
Quote:
15. 1a2a3: zahar 'bold, *building'
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Part...2/khuzdul.html
Quote:
Tumunzahar `Hollowbold', or Nogrod, a city of the Dwarves in the Blue Mountains, (S:91, 344, UT:389). It seems to have the elements tumun `hollow' (similar to Q. tumbu `hollow, swell') and zahar `bold, a building' (a noun form).
http://www.realelvish.net/book_names.php#t
Quote:
Tumunzahar - Hollow Bold (Khuzdul)
tumun - hollow
zahar - bold
Furthermore, we can make the connection from the following site:
http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Nogrod
Quote:
Hollowbold has an interesting etymology: it is the translation of nogrod, 'hollow dwelling' (early English bold, noun related to the verb build)
This shows us that there is some connection between the words "bold" and "dwelling". In the Peter Jackson films, they seem to have used the word "Zahar" for the Khuzdul equivalent of a dwelling or house:
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Chamb...ngerthas_Moria
Quote:
(from Khuzdul: "Zahar Durinul".)
If that's not enough to definitively settle the issue, keep in mind that there is a great deal of crossover between Tolkien's languages. Many of the words in his languages were derived from common roots. In The Etymologies found within The Lost Road and Other Writings, the following listing may be found:
Quote:
TUB- *tumbu deep valley, under or among hills: Q tumbo, N tum. Cf. Tumladen 'the level vale' [LAT], the vale of Gondolin. *tubnā deep: Q tumna lowlying , deep, low; N tofn, Ilk. tovon. *Utubnu name of Melko's vaults in the North: Q Utumno; N Udun; Ilk. Uduvon; Dan. Utum.
Since a "hollow" is a type of valley, it would appear that the Khuzdul name of Tumunzahar ("Hollowbold") is etymologically linked to this elvish root. Indeed, the second source above mentions that Tumun is similar to the Quenya Tumbu. Thus, it is more than likely that Tumun is intended to refer to "Hollow", while Zahar refers to "Bold", "Building", and roughly "Dwelling" or "House".
Anyways, I hope that helps. :)
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Wow, very concise work Reddhawk. Glad you got involved with this post.
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Wow, that was pretty good, Reddhawk. Are you competing for Berephon's job or something? ;)
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AgamemnonV1
Wow, that was pretty good, Reddhawk. Are you competing for Berephon's job or something? ;)
Berephron, much like the Istari, is forbidden to show his true power. Nobody can compete :-)
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Very nicely done indeed! That deserves a /bow if anything ever did.
Will you come by Elendilmir and teach me some Khuzdul? ;)
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
The Globe of Arda...just blew my mind.
I remember running past it and stopping to take a look at it because it was one of the coolest things I saw in Moria.
I had no idea all that was written on it!
Thanks so much for that. :)
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AgamemnonV1
Wow, that was pretty good, Reddhawk. Are you competing for Berephon's job or something? ;)
:o Let's just say if he ever needed an assistant "lore-monkey", I'd be interested.
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth - Dark Delving
Incredible translation of the world map. Sorry if this has already been posted, but I couldn't find it. Has anyone translated the Dark Delving Runes?
The runes on the entrance stones, are the same as the ones on the light stones inside
http://media.share.ovi.com/m1/large/...a236eedf3c.jpgInsidehttp://media.share.ovi.com/m1/large/...a37ffc9132.jpg
Assuming this is written in Angerthas Moria,I believe that would translate to Azanturash.
However, translating it to english is another matter, all I can find is that in Khuzdul "Azan that which makes dim?" (http://www.lotrplaza.com/dwarves/dic...ct_khz-eng.htm)
This rune appears identical except that the runes are a mirror image? intentional or an accident?
http://media.share.ovi.com/m1/large/...9efa350807.jpg
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth- Dark Delving Floating Runes
It appears to me that the floating Runes are just random sequences of the individual runes that are on the stones.
For example
http://media.share.ovi.com/m1/large/...280acff907.jpg
and
http://media.share.ovi.com/m1/large/...acb675cda7.jpg
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Quote:
"Azan that which makes dim?"
Taking it from the context, I would guess it means "Light that which makes dim", in other words "bring light into the darkness". Just a guess.
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arasilion
Taking it from the context, I would guess it means "Light that which makes dim", in other words "bring light into the darkness". Just a guess.
Actually, from what I've been able to find, "azan" itself means "dim" or "dark". The translation given above (Azanturash), should actually be either Azanturas or Azanturah, depending upon the value of the final rune. This final rune is typically an 's', but sometimes swaps meaning with another rune so that it acquires the 'h' sound. The meaning of Azan is attested to in the name Azanulbizar (Dimrill Dale). Alternatively, the name is said to mean "Vale of Dim Streams" and is composed of the elements azan (dim) - ûl (streams) - bizar (valley). I haven't yet found any basis for the word "Turas", although I'm willing to bet that it has a meaning similar to "Delving". My guess would be:
Azanturas = Dark Delving
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
This is a truly awesome work guys...Thanks so much.
I so enjoy the depth of the "Tolkeinian" languages. Guess we are all thankful that Papa Tolkein took all that time to put them together...and the Devs devoted so much time and effort to make use of them. Yet another reason that LOTRO is so awesome. :D
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Here's a simple one that's been around since launch - approach the throne in Thorin's Hall - carved in the top are 7 runes. I translated them into
th r a i n u l
Thorin was the son of Thrain and we've seen the ul at the end of a name before on Balin's tomb, meaning "son-of"
Simple but it also show's you the designers attention to detail since day 1.
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Nice catch there Nordi! Tusen takk
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Another very simple rune brought me to the crest of Weathertop :) For many of us, the Lone-Land quests revolving around that hill were finished ages ago. A few days ago (while re-reading the chapter Strider and the hobbits' confrontation with the Black Riders) I went up again to verify whether the markings were still visible on the stone if you no longer had the quest--and so they were: G III
:D
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ameliel
Another very simple rune brought me to the crest of Weathertop :) For many of us, the Lone-Land quests revolving around that hill were finished ages ago. A few days ago (while re-reading the chapter Strider and the hobbits' confrontation with the Black Riders) I went up again to verify whether the markings were still visible on the stone if you no longer had the quest--and so they were: G III
:D
I think I stumbled across that rune in beta, not really thinking it would be there. But sure enough, there it was right where it was supposed to. I think that was the first time I came across a "lore nugget" and it's probably what really got me hooked.
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Anyone remember that quest in the misty mountains where the dwarf sends you to put a sign up by helegrod? the sign has runes written on it. My graphics arent good enough to get a descent screenshot, but it would be cool if someone were to find out what the sign says...
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sir-rinthian
Anyone remember that quest in the misty mountains where the dwarf sends you to put a sign up by helegrod? the sign has runes written on it. My graphics arent good enough to get a descent screenshot, but it would be cool if someone were to find out what the sign says...
Next time I'm up that way, I'll see if I can get a shot of it.
Anyways, the other day as I was exploring the crafting instances, I noticed some new runes. :) This sign appears several times in Mekeb-Farak and Mekeb-Faham:
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j.../nalazahar.jpg
As discussed in a previous post of mine, zahar means "bold" or "building". Within the lore, nâla is found with the placename Kibil-nâla, rendered into english as Silverlode. Since we know that kibil means "silver", it would seem obvious that nâla means "lode". However, there is this note on the Ardalambion site:
Quote:
-nâla: According to TI:175, the meaning of this word is not known, but if the Khuzdul name Kibil-nâla has the same meaning as Sindarin Celebrant, Silverlode, it may be assumed to mean "path, course, rivercourse or bed".
This would mean that the building is identified as either Lodebold or as one of several other possibilities with no clear rendering into English (Rivercourse-building, Riverbed-building, Path-building, Course-building). None of these possibilities make any clear sense. Lodebold would seem to hold the most meaning, as it could refer to a building used for the storage of ore. However, considering that these (i.e. Mekeb-Faham and Mekab-Farak) are the scholar instances, even that doesn't seem to make sense. Indeed, the interior of these instances resemble a library more than a storage facility or anything that would be associated with mining or ore. One other possiblity that I have thought of is that the name is used figuratively. Perhaps, nâla has been used to refer to a "rivercourse" in a poetic allusion to the winding path through Durin's Way on which these instances are found. I suppose that's a bit of a stretch, but there doesn't seem to be any clear meaning behind this name without knowing exactly what the devs had in mind.
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Here's another one that I meant to post earlier. This involves the runes on the selection ring:
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...ction_ring.jpg
As you can see, the same set of runes appears twice within the rings.
Here's my diagram of the runes:
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...tion_runes.jpg
Unlike most of the runes in the game, these do not represent words in Khuzdul or Elvish. Rather, the selection circle contains English words encoded into runes. As you can see in the diagram, the translated sentence is: "The one that is chosen". The reason that the words "the" and "one" appear as "dhe" and "hwun" is that the Cirth are used to represent words phonetically, rather than literally. Thus, each rune represents a particular sound, rather than a specific letter.
Through the following link, you can see that Tolkien used the same rendering for the word the (i.e. "dhe") in the Cirth that he placed on the title page of The Lord of the Rings.
http://www.acondia.com/fonts/cirth/info/ex_lotr.htm
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Reddhawk
I found one on the back of a 2nd Age Hunter weapon. It oddly bears almost identical runes to the Book of Mazarbul.
http://www.mtdoom.com/images/ScreenShot00151.jpg
At least, that's what the top of the weapon looks like (you have to look upside down). It spells out Katub Maz.
I'm a little more confused by the bottom runes, it appears as though it's some kind of mirrored copy of the top, but it's not exact. The second rune (reading left to right) is similar to the "A" rune, but the long side is on the wrong side. I mirrored it, it's almost the same as "Katub Maz" except for the last rune, which is S instead of Z.
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Reddhawk
Here's another one that I meant to post earlier. This involves the runes on the selection ring:
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...ction_ring.jpg
As you can see, the same set of runes appears twice within the rings.
Here's my diagram of the runes:
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...tion_runes.jpg
Unlike most of the runes in the game, these do not represent words in Khuzdul or Elvish. Rather, the selection circle contains English words encoded into runes. As you can see in the diagram, the translated sentence is: "
The one that is chosen". The reason that the words "the" and "one" appear as "dhe" and "hwun" is that the Cirth are used to represent words phonetically, rather than literally. Thus, each rune represents a particular sound, rather than a specific letter.
Through the following link, you can see that Tolkien used the same rendering for the word
the (i.e. "dhe") in the Cirth that he placed on the title page of The Lord of the Rings.
http://www.acondia.com/fonts/cirth/info/ex_lotr.htm
Wow, another nice catch!
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yaksha42
I found one on the back of a 2nd Age Hunter weapon. It oddly bears almost identical runes to the Book of Mazarbul.
http://www.mtdoom.com/images/ScreenShot00151.jpg
At least, that's what the top of the weapon looks like (you have to look upside down). It spells out Katub Maz.
I'm a little more confused by the bottom runes, it appears as though it's some kind of mirrored copy of the top, but it's not exact. The second rune (reading left to right) is similar to the "A" rune, but the long side is on the wrong side. I mirrored it, it's almost the same as "Katub Maz" except for the last rune, which is S instead of Z.
Good one, Yaksha. That's a hard one to see.
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Oh! I got called on it. Sorry for misspelling Middle-earth with the capitol in the title.
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Magnarr
Oh! I got called on it. Sorry for misspelling Middle-earth with the capitol in the title.
Heh. You'd be surprised (actually you probably wouldn't) how many times this happens. Even the DVD case for The Hobbit cartoon film makes this mistake. But hey, everyone's a critic, right? :p
The important thing is that it's provided an excuse for bumping this wonderful thread. Now, let's keep the runes coming. :D
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Magnarr
Necro thread revival. ;)
sounds like the name of a band :D
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Hey all,
Here's a question that I've been trying to get a hard-line answer for, and as much as I know the question has been asked in a couple of other threads, nothing confirmed as of yet, so I thought I'd try here as well.
This is in regards to the runes visible on Laugfut's collar, seen here:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...larCloseup.jpg
As you can see, it's gotten mirrored at the halfway mark, so we can't read it propperly, but it's Cirth, at least, and the visible first half looks to be something like 'Ige Meloo Palan—' The last symbol before the mirroring could be an 'n', in full but cut off, or else it might also be the rune for 'kh', then mirrored back to back with itself; can't tell.
the other possibility, one supposes is that that half-collar set is the full inscription, simply repeated from side to centre on either side, meeting inthe middle, but it does look more like a case of texture mirroring.
I considered that it didn't seem very like the rest of the game to have a random jumble of runes for appearance's sake, and somewhere around here Berephon mentioned that there aren't supposed to be any random runes floating about without meaning.
Without having any knowledge of the actual translation process, I can't offer much more, I'm afraid. This was brought up inthe hidden nuggets thread as well, at one point, but no solid answer was found or confirmed, then, and the thread moved on.
Perhaps someone here can drag some meaning or sense out of this, or what it might have been, or if we're really lucky, someone official might know what it was mean to have been originally? Sorry if I'm covering old turf here, but I can't seem to lay my hands on a solid answer for myslef, without a propper understanding of the runes and the language, which I don't have, heheh...
-Harla
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
FYI, there are a few translations in the Lorebook: Category:Translation and Laugfût's collar is in there with NPC dialog explaining that the collar says it belongs to a wolf called Laugfût, which it clearly doesn't. :)
The transcription kinda depends on what mode you are using: the 'K' rune could be 'g' or 'r' and the double one could be 'oo' or 'ô'. And if there is a mode for Black Speech it may change a little bit more. Makes little sense to me either way though :)
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
That is so strange.... For the past two weeks, whenever I've loaded that page (http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Inscribed_Collar), it's loaded blank, with no information in it at all... hence my confusion. I'm not sure why it wasn't loading for me before, or why it is suddenly now.
Sadly, the article doesn't provide anything further than what we've got worked out already, and I'm still holding out for something firmer than "It appears to say something like this, and one part of that means something like this"..
I don't particularly buy "anyone's guess" angle, since, given that it's a game we're dealing with here, and efforts have been taken to only put in things that make sense, that means that someone put it there, and thus [i]someone[i] must know what the inscription was intended to mean in its entirety...
Although, it seems by this point that, whoever that someone is, we're not likely to hear from them here, alas...
Thankyou for somehow mystically getting my lorebook working again though... your lay-on-hands of linkage is appreciated, heheh....
-Harla
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Of course I don't have a screenshot but maybe someone know of this already)...
In 1.14.15 - Doom of the North where you are following Amarthiel to the Ring-Forges of Tham Mirdain - there is a large painting in I think the 2nd or 3rd courtyard that give a large amount of gloom when you stand near it. Does anyone know what that is? Or what the painting represents that it causes so much gloom?
P.S. I'm locked out of the instance because I completed it, otherwise I'd go back in for a SS.
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rhino-Man
Of course I don't have a screenshot but maybe someone know of this already)...
In 1.14.15 - Doom of the North where you are following Amarthiel to the Ring-Forges of Tham Mirdain - there is a large painting in I think the 2nd or 3rd courtyard that give a large amount of gloom when you stand near it. Does anyone know what that is? Or what the painting represents that it causes so much gloom?
P.S. I'm locked out of the instance because I completed it, otherwise I'd go back in for a SS.
It says Jewel-parent, Elf-friend, Ring-lord. Not entirely sure about the first word though. You should know who the guy is even without these hints ;)
And since this got bumped I have something to share, it's pretty old so maybe someone found out earlier (I posted it some time ago on EU forums anyways):
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/7589/swordj.png
This is the level 65 Third Age Greatsword, if my rendering is correct it says "the iron drinks blood" in a bit non-standard word order.
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Reniannen
It says Jewel-parent, Elf-friend, Ring-lord. Not entirely sure about the first word though. You should know who the guy is even without these hints ;)
And since this got bumped I have something to share, it's pretty old so maybe someone found out earlier (I posted it some time ago on EU forums anyways):
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/7589/swordj.png
This is the level 65 Third Age Greatsword, if my rendering is correct it says "the iron drinks blood" in a bit non-standard word order.
Are you talking about the "Lord of Gifts"? Annatar?
((The intricate details of ME history/etc. are all still new to me, as I've only read the Hobbit and trilogy and seen the movies))
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rhino-Man
Are you talking about the "Lord of Gifts"? Annatar?
((The intricate details of ME history/etc. are all still new to me, as I've only read the Hobbit and trilogy and seen the movies))
Yup, and I seem to have mislead you - you may not know who he is, not yet in this book. :)
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
I don't think this one's been looked at before
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/423...shot00035k.jpg
gabilkanon
dethles durin bēhind dhis dor
wunderz wrot for mitē wor
Great Forge
Deathless Durin behind this door
wonders wrought for mighty war
Full size here:
http://img37.imageshack.us/f/screenshot00035l.jpg/
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
in the Shire there is a quest "Gerebert misses a meal" .. lv8 quest given by Esilia Took shes around 33.0s 71.1w in tookland the quest sends you to Gereberts house (around 33.5s 72.4w) anyway you have to find his journal in his house which is open on his nightstand and full of writing seems more like scribbling to me than runes but maybe someone can make something of it ... i'll see if i can get a shot of it
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Reddhawk
Actually, all 4 runes are part of Tolkien's Cirth. These runes belong to the alphabet known as Angerthas Daeron and are the runes used to represent Sindarin. The runes in the picture translate as "kaew":
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...rez_circle.jpg
The runic 'k' is actually meant to represent a Sindarin 'c', however the elvish 'c' is almost always pronounced as a 'k'. With this in mind, the letters "kaew" would actually appear in Sindarin as "caew". So, what does this mean?
Well, "caew" can be used to refer to a
resting-place, which seems particularly apt given that the stone circle is where you go to rest after retreating from battle.
Although it is likely just a coincidence, I have also noticed that if you take the phonetic representation of this word ("kaew") and read it backwards, you get "weak", which is exactly what you are after retreating. :p
The word "Kaew" is phonetically similar to estonian "kaev" which means "water well" in english.
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
This thread is awesome, and proves why dwarves are awesome too. I must of ran past that globe not even knowing it was a globe. Probably just thought it was a sculptor.
Made reading the forums at 02:39 am so worth it!
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
http://content.turbine.com/sites/lor...ersayCloak.jpg
http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Fifth_Anniversary_Cloak
This cloak was a quest reward for the 5th Anniversary festival. It appears to say "LEBEN".
In 'Tolkien - Artist and Illustrator' [5] a Noldorin sentence is found on Thrór's Map which agrees well with numerals as found in the Etymologies. The sentence reads lheben teil brann i annon ar neledh neledhi gar godrebh, apparently the (free) translation of 'five feet high the door and three may walk abreast'.
So, these symbols are probably meant to be the elvish word for "five".
Source for numeric info: http://www.phy.duke.edu/~trenk/elvish/numerals.html
BTW, I'm very interested in any other in-game images with runes or tengwar. And I'd love some help translating them. See http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Category:Translations for the ones I've added so far (many from this thread of course).
-
Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beleg
http://content.turbine.com/sites/lor...ersayCloak.jpg
http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Fifth_Anniversary_Cloak
This cloak was a quest reward for the 5th Anniversary festival. It appears to say "LEBEN".
In 'Tolkien - Artist and Illustrator' [5] a Noldorin sentence is found on Thrór's Map which agrees well with numerals as found in the Etymologies. The sentence reads
lheben teil brann i annon ar neledh neledhi gar godrebh, apparently the (free) translation of 'five feet high the door and three may walk abreast'.
So, these symbols are probably meant to be the elvish word for "five".
Source for numeric info:
http://www.phy.duke.edu/~trenk/elvish/numerals.html
BTW, I'm very interested in any other in-game images with runes or tengwar. And I'd love some help translating them. See http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Category:Translations for the ones I've added so far (many from this thread of course).
Lebennin - the Land of Five Waters (Streams/Rivers) in Gondor, so yes it would be Five
-
Arise and return to battle!
Bumpity-bump.
-
Nice thread-necro Eoleof! +rep. This has been an interesting one to bring out folks' knowledge.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Reddhawk
I'd like to contest the translation of nâla, if only because, like you said, 'lodebold' doesn't make much sense in a scholar instance, and because there's Nâla-dûm in Water-works.
What if nâla means something akin to 'water'?
A note on Katûb-zahar, too:
In-game, it's called "Word-hoard of Durin". :)
-
I just found this thread, + rep
-
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Daeross
Now that is one handsome dude! :cool: Nice screenshot!
-
http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps7cb3fd3a.jpg
This one is in regards to the symbols on the front of the recent Harvest-brew Goat. Seems like the designer used a little artistic freedom since it's not in any one real language that I could decipher, and a few symbols aren't Tolkien at all.
None of it made sense in any one written language and the the 5th rune in was driving me crazy. It doesn't exist. But it does kind of. See below my translation from what I could figure.
W -- Elder Futhark (a P in Anglo and Cirth)
E -- Elder and Ango-Saxon Futhark (an "oo" in old Cirth)
S -- Elder and Ango-Saxon Futhark (a Y in Cirth)
T -- Elder and Ango-Saxon Futhark (an R in Cirth)
F -- *doesn't exist. But an upside down and backwards symbol in Sarati. Perfectly in fact. Created by the elf Rúmil of Tirion.
H -- Elder Futhark only
A -- Ango-Saxon Futhark only (notice the shape of the lower horizontal hash has no bend)
L -- Elder and Ango-Saxon Futhark (a T in Cirth)
In the above I referenced Elder Futhark in place of the actually more appropriate Norwegian-Germanic Futhark, which is technically the more correct. Elder Futhark dealt only in meanings of runes with no sounds, and it wasn't until 400ad that the Norwegian-Germanic runic set actually put sounds to them. Elder reads easier though and those symbols did eventually become the same phonetic letters later.
Would have still looked cool if the artist just stuck to one language. Other thoughts?
*Note: This was a similar comment I made on a thread now buried in the General forum section. Some people were thinking that the possible Westfhal was referring to a German town of Westphal, where Turbine apparently visited recently.
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...55#post6433055
-
Magnarr: Could I talk you into adding this Harvest-Brew Steed rune-tidbit to the Translations?
And yes, the Harvest-Brew Horse and Pony have the same gear (alas, no pint on a pole), with the same runes. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bambubambubambu
Now that is one handsome dude! :cool: Nice screenshot!
Blessed be the in-game epic movies... ;)
-
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Daeross
Could I talk you into adding this Harvest-Brew Steed rune-tidbit to the
Translations?
I'll see if I can figure that out sometime.
Nice transcribing on the above!
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Harla
Hey all,
Here's a question that I've been trying to get a hard-line answer for, and as much as I know the question has been asked in a couple of other threads, nothing confirmed as of yet, so I thought I'd try here as well.
This is in regards to the runes visible on Laugfut's collar, seen here:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...larCloseup.jpg
As you can see, it's gotten mirrored at the halfway mark, so we can't read it propperly, but it's Cirth, at least, and the visible first half looks to be something like 'Ige Meloo Palan—' The last symbol before the mirroring could be an 'n', in full but cut off, or else it might also be the rune for 'kh', then mirrored back to back with itself; can't tell.
the other possibility, one supposes is that that half-collar set is the full inscription, simply repeated from side to centre on either side, meeting inthe middle, but it does look more like a case of texture mirroring.
I considered that it didn't seem very like the rest of the game to have a random jumble of runes for appearance's sake, and somewhere around here Berephon mentioned that there aren't supposed to be any random runes floating about without meaning.
Without having any knowledge of the actual translation process, I can't offer much more, I'm afraid. This was brought up inthe hidden nuggets thread as well, at one point, but no solid answer was found or confirmed, then, and the thread moved on.
Perhaps someone here can drag some meaning or sense out of this, or what it might have been, or if we're really lucky, someone official might know what it was mean to have been originally? Sorry if I'm covering old turf here, but I can't seem to lay my hands on a solid answer for myslef, without a propper understanding of the runes and the language, which I don't have, heheh...
-Harla
...IGE:MELOO:PALAKSALAF:OO-...
One of those runes transcribed was upside down. That's okay in early runic language but not in Cirth. Seems like artistic gibberish to me unfortunately on that one.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Magnarr
...IGE:MELOO:PALAKSALAF:OO-...
One of those runes transcribed was upside down. That's okay in early runic language but not in Cirth. Seems like artistic gibberish to me unfortunately on that one.
Question I'd like to ask is whether we're dealing with Certhas Daeron, Angerthas Moria or Angerthas Erebor?
All of them have...differences.
Edit: Can't check myself, atm. Don't have my runes at hand. :)
-
Used this guide for it: http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q...arr/cirth2.gif
Not familiar with variations that would change up Cirth runic transcription to Latin lettering prior to other translations, but would be happy to be filled in if so. Ever learning and always curious.
On a side note, if anyone has a link to a Khuzdul/English dictionary (or others) it would be much appreciated. I know there's a pdf available via a paid download for that and several other Tolkien languages, but would prefer not to have to buy it. There's a fine line between cheap and thrifty. ;) I ride that line.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Magnarr
Used this guide for it:
http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q...arr/cirth2.gif
Not familiar with variations that would change up Cirth runic transcription to Latin lettering prior to other translations, but would be happy to be filled in if so. Ever learning and always curious.
That diagram's straight from the Appendices, and as such, it's more or less the best source, imo. :)
What the diagram misses is the info in the 'narrative':
"In the Table of Values those on the left are, when separated by -, the values of the older Angerthas. Those on the right are the values of the Dwarvish Angerthas Moria. (Those in brackets () are values only found in Elvish use; * marks cirth only used by Dwarves.)--- Angerthas Moria is represented in the tomb-inscription (for Balin)."
"The Dwarves of Erebor used a further modification of this system, known as the mode of Erebor, and exemplified in the Book of Mazarbul. Its chief charasteristics were: the use of 43 as z; of 17 as ks (x); and the invention of two new cirth, 57, 58 for ps and ts. They also reintroduced 14, 16, for the values j, zh; but used 29, 30 for g, gh, or as mere variants of 19, 21. These peculiarities are not included in the table, except for the special Ereborian cirth, 57, 58."
To make things even funnier, Tolkien suggested that there were even more variations on the cirth. A little earlier in the Appendices, under Writing:
"The Cirth in their older and simpler form spread eastward in the Second Age, and became known to many peoples, to Men and Dwarves, and even to Orcs, all of whom altered them to suit their purposes and according to their skill or lack of it. One such simple form was still used by the Men of Dale, and a similar one by the Rohirrim."
The way Turbine's interpreted this is by using Anglo-Saxon fuþorc for the Rohirrim. More on that after the launch of RoR. ;)
As for Khuzdul (Appendices FTW :p )...
"Yet in secret --- (the Dwarves) used their own strange tongue, changed little by the years; for it had become a tongue of lore rather than a cradle-speech, and they tended and guarded it as a treasure of the past."
Nonetheless...
These two links might help?
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...ary(revisited)
http://dwarrowscholar.mymiddleearth....lotro-dwarves/
-
With the introduction of Rohan, more great examples of Turbine's lore, linguistic and artistic work have found their way into the game.
One of which is a memorial to honour Eorl the Young, first king of the Mark. I've taken a few screenshots and added some explanations to them and the runes you can find on them.
(the posts are pretty long and contain many images, so instead of spamming this thread with several posts and images, I'll provide a link to the thread I started)
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...-Eorl-s-Hallow
God I love that place :)
-
I think the best ever use of runes, in any way, came with the launch of the Riders of Rohan...and the subsequent new tier for crafting.
Because Tailors can in Tier 8, Eastemnet, craft a lvl80 cloak, with runes near its hem:
Not the first cloak with runes. Though these aren't tengwar nor cirth, but Anglo-saxon fuþorc, and using those these runes, read from left to right, transliterate as:
passmethar chickensalad
I guess whoever was responsible was hungry... :p
-
A whole number of 'new' runes! :p
I thought it'd be sensible to gather all the Lore-master's Signs into one entry, with clarifications on what the tengwar looks like...
Durin's Stone in Nanduhirion is true to the book, too, since it does feature runes... which, contrary to the book, are visible enough to read... at least if you squint. :p
Much easier to read were the cirth upon the Dwarf-markers in Enedwaith, though.
-
Chrisandir has just revived Best-thread-ever
-
Please note... with the termination of the Lorebook and revision of the Forums coming on Monday (29 July, 2013), I have transferred the entries from the Lorebook "Category: Translations" to lotro-wiki.com.
http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Translations
See the category "Translations" for all the specific pages as I'm still in the process of transferring things.
Anyone who is not listed as a contributor who should be, please let me know.
Please visit Lotro-wiki and become a contributor there! We can always use the help.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Daeross
I think the best ever use of runes, in any way, came with the launch of the Riders of Rohan...and the subsequent new tier for crafting.
Because Tailors can in Tier 8, Eastemnet, craft a
lvl80 cloak, with runes near its hem:
Not the first cloak with runes. Though these aren't
tengwar nor
cirth, but Anglo-saxon fuþorc, and using those these runes, read from left to right, transliterate as:
passmethar chickensalad
I guess whoever was responsible was hungry... :p
Ok, that's pretty darn funny! :cool:
-
This thread makes me want to start a Loremaster :rolleyes:
-
I found this [Autumn Welcome Mat] have a phrase we hear a lot from friendly Galadhrim Guardians: Mae govannen, or Welcome, in Sindarin.
http://i1364.photobucket.com/albums/...ps50cfca99.jpg
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by
YamydeAragon
I found this [Autumn Welcome Mat] have a phrase we hear a lot from friendly Galadhrim Guardians: Mae govannen, or Welcome, in Sindarin.
That's not unique to the autumnal piece; it's what the Summer welcome mat has, too, as well as the basic welcome mat. All in Sindarin tehta mode. :)
There's also the Unwelcome Mat... which seems to have Angerthas Erebor on it, spelling out "nagbgoshan".
As an aside, I was worried this thread had been swept away; apparently I just had forgotten where it lay, and lost my own links to it.
Happy to be proven wrong.
:)
-
Translations for the runes on the burial mounds of the kings of Rohan.
The nine on the right, starting closest to the gate:
EORL GEONG (Eorl the Young)
BREGO
ALDOR EALD (Aldor the Old)
FREA
FREAWINE
GOLDWINE
DEOR
GRAM
HELM HAMORHAND
This is the first line of kings, their mounds lying in the order of their reigns.
The seven on the left, again starting closest to the gate:
FREALAF HILDESUNU (Frealaf Hildeson)
BRYTA LEOFA (Brytta Beloved)
WALDA
FOLCA HUNTERE
FOLCWINE
FENGEL
THENGEL THRIWABREME (Thengel Thrice-Renowned)*
This is the second line of kings, also lying in the order of their reigns. Soon Théoden will be laid in an eighth mound here, next to his father Thengel, thus ending the second line.
*thanks to Daeross for correction :)
-
There are many rune marked places in west Rohan. It called my attention the collection of tapestry of their heroes but specially the shield maiden & another of the men & elves sharing a arrow. Less bold are the runes on the rocks along the way that lead to the path of dead.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by
YamydeAragon
There are many rune marked places in west Rohan. It called my attention the collection of tapestry of their heroes but specially the shield maiden & another of the men & elves sharing a arrow. Less bold are the runes on the rocks along the way that lead to the path of dead.
"Another of men and elves sharing an arrow"? Do you mean the tapestry in Aldburg Mead Hall, depicting the forging of the alliance between Éorl the Young and Cirion the Steward of Gondor?
No elves in that, though I can see how the beardless, blonde Éorl could be mistaken for one...
Westemnet's a tresure trove for curiosities. Just like Eastemnet. :)
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Daeross
... No elves in that, though I can see how the beardless, blonde Éorl could be mistaken for one ...
Then someone screwed the graphics because the blondy beside the horse have pointy ears & i see no beard on him but i don't think that shaving is a new invention. :rolleyes:
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by
YamydeAragon
Then someone screwed the graphics because the blondy beside the horse have pointy ears & i see no beard on him but i don't think that shaving is a new invention. :rolleyes:
He's beardless, yeah; I just thought that was there because of his epithet. Guy with a beard is harder to sell as "Young", after all. ;)
As for ears, on my screen he has just as rounded ears as Cirion and co.
The fuþorc under said scene are unambiguous. They clearly spell out Eorl Geong stiwearde aðselleð; Eorl the Young (and the) Steward swore an oath.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Daeross
He's beardless, yeah; I just thought that was there because of his epithet. Guy with a beard is harder to sell as "Young", after all. ;)
As for ears, on my screen he has just as rounded ears as Cirion and co.
The
fuþorc under said scene are unambiguous. They clearly spell out
Eorl Geong stiwearde aðselleð; Eorl the Young (and the) Steward swore an oath.
Oh i beleive you about what it said. But young with beard not possible? I dont know..., at some places boys start growing beard at 8 years old.
-
More runes! The level 95 crafted light armor pants have something written on them at the ankle high. To read the whole inscription you must be shoeless. Do someone know what they say? ;)
-
Does anyone know what this translates to?
http://i62.tinypic.com/14145jl.jpg
If it's any help, the sword is called Blade of Old Foes (a reference to Spider-kin), has extra damage to Spiders & Insects (ditto), has Westernesse damage (so presumably forged by Men though the runes seem to be Tengwar) and is dropped by Thorog.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BirdofHermes
Does anyone know what this translates to?
Given that, as usual, we appear to lack half the letters (vowels), and even the consonants given are a bit smudgy... Good luck. I'm not awake enough to try to find words fitting the consonants given (mb, l, nd; v?; m, r, ngw, s?).
However, this, specifically, is a pretty common decoration on a number of weapons. Another common decoration transliterates to "dagnir in glamhoth"
(Slayer of (the) Dinhorde), but this isn't that. Nor is this "hathel thelian" (Blade of the Steadfast)... I'll get to this when I have my wits about me, and lack of RL obligations. :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BirdofHermes
(so presumably forged by Men though the runes seem to be Tengwar)-
The only letters used in Middle-earth, far as we know from the books, are tengwar ('elvish letters') and cirth ('runes'); they're both in origin Elvish (Fëanor took over Rúmil's work and refined tengwar, Daeron of Doriath composed the cirth), even though Elves themselves preferred, at large, the former, and Dwarves took the latter for their own, creating their own modes of it, and Tolkien mentions how Orcs and Men had their own variants of cirth.
("The Cirth in their older and simpler form spread eastward in the Second Age, and became known to many peoples, to Men and Dwarves, and even to Orcs, all of whom altered them to suit their purposes and according to their skill or lack of it. One such simple form was still used by the Men of Dale, and a similar one by the Rohirrim." - Lord of the Rings, Appendices)
(Imo, Turbine's dealt with this comment admirably, using fuþorc for everything that's written down in Rohan.)
The apparent lack of other writing forms is the reason Sauron inscribed his Ring in tengwar.
Furthermore, at the very beginning of the Fellowship of the Ring, there's mention how "Hobbits learned their letters and began to write after the manner of the Dúnedain, who had in their turn long before learned the art from the Elves."
-
Hey I recently watched The Battle of the Five Armies, and I was wondering, What does Kili's Runestone say and what are the runes on Sting?
I'm sorry, but I don't have a picture of either one of them.
-
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Daeross
Great to see you back Daeross! Always enjoy your posts. :D
