Hey Rask -- couple questions about Durchest

This is a question that's been bugging me for some time, mostly as it applies to BG/Durchest and his Cleave attack, which as I understand it is frontal aoe/melee/distributed/3-target max. It may apply to other distributed attacks but AFAIK Cleave is the only one that's specifically melee damage and not tactical.

1. Can Cleave Miss or be B/P/E'd?

1a. If so, how is the damage calculated? If persons A, B, C are the targets of Cleave, and A & B both Parry the attack, does person C take 100% (triple) damage as if he were the only recipient of the attack, or does person C take the reduced/distributed 33% damage?

Mostly I'm trying to gauge the value/risk of +Miss Chance debuffs while Disable is on the fritz.


2. "Boot to the Face" -- is there a trigger behind this attack? We've had a couple of occasions being a hair's breadth from a hard mode kill only to see him turn and one-shot a rune-keeper with this for no apparent reason. It's funny (granted, not as funny as the Blind One drop-kicking a dwarf into a vortex) but kinda frustrating as well.


p.s. I love how "Devastating Melee Attack" is Durchest's default swipe to the point of 97% of his attacks being DMA's. For the longest time we thought these were just devastating criticals of other attacks!

1. From my experience, the Great Cleave can be B/P/E'd and it's still distributed equally. It's annoying when someone who has the -100% debuff loses it due to B/P/E twice and the person you want tanking it then gets the debuff. I haven't personally noticed a miss, but I'd assume he can miss. Personally, because swapping tanks in and out due to the debuff is more annoying than just having 2 people keep the debuff and 1 continually tank it, I prefer less B/P/E on all but the tank and less miss chance on Durchest, but that's harder on healers. ;)

2. Boot to the Face seems random to us, though if you're far enough away from where the tanks are, he doesn't seem to boot you. He doesn't run halfway across the room, for example. I've never seen the BO drop kick anyone into a vortex, but that would be highly amusing.

However, I'll leave it up to Rask to verify as he may. :)

Also, Devastating Melee Attack seems to be pretty much all the Lt. does to me when I tank him, too.

I have one question for Rask about BG too, and I'll mooch off your thread (if you don't mind):

When doing the Twins Hard-mode, it seems that each time someone dies, eye frequency increases. If nobody dies, there's hardly any people who get eyes. Is that true or are we crazy?

No Idea on cleave i am as clueless as you but I know for a fact he will not boot you if your not in melee range so tell those RKs to stop their dang auto attack

Boot To the Face.


Someone likes The Frantics' Ti Kwan Leep/Last Will and Temperament skits! :p





As for the topic, I have only been to Durchest a few times, so I have little knowledge on the subject, but AFAIK, Cleave can only be distributed, eventually being absorbed (I would assume) if enough people are in front of him. The problem most raids I have been on seem to have with him is him critting the tank three times in a row, and it happens so fast that the healers cannot heal soon enough to save the tank/the tank is down far enough it kills him.

I actually didn't have any direct involvement in creating the AI/Skills/Effects for any of the DG instances. The instance team handled that on their own.

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Originally Posted by rawlingsst7

1. Can Cleave Miss or be B/P/E'd?

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When a skill is created the designer is able to choose if they want to allow that skill to be Blocked and/or Parried and/or Evaded and/or Miss on a skill-by-skill basis. For this skill specifically, it cannot Miss or be B/P/E'd.

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Originally Posted by rawlingsst7

1a. If so, how is the damage calculated? If persons A, B, C are the targets of Cleave, and A & B both Parry the attack, does person C take 100% (triple) damage as if he were the only recipient of the attack, or does person C take the reduced/distributed 33% damage?

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Good question, I had to ask an Engineer about this one. The way it works is that Person C takes the reduced/distributed 33% damage. Which makes sense because the intention of this mechanic is "Quick! Everyone get close!", and it would be unfortunate/frustrating if everyone got close like they were supposed to only to have half the characters B/P/E the attack while the remaining half take double the damage they were expecting.

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Originally Posted by rawlingsst7

2. "Boot to the Face" -- is there a trigger behind this attack? We've had a couple of occasions being a hair's breadth from a hard mode kill only to see him turn and one-shot a rune-keeper with this for no apparent reason. It's funny (granted, not as funny as the Blind One drop-kicking a dwarf into a vortex) but kinda frustrating as well.

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Nope, there doesn't appear to be any special triggers. There's a range requirement and cooldown, but that's it.

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Originally Posted by rawlingsst7

p.s. I love how "Devastating Melee Attack" is Durchest's default swipe to the point of 97% of his attacks being DMA's. For the longest time we thought these were just devastating criticals of other attacks!

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The instance team was bumping into problems using the base 'auto-attack' skills that most monsters use, so they went ahead and created a suite of instance-only skills they can use for some of their bosses 'auto-attack' skills. Glad it's working out!

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Originally Posted by vitamin-f

When doing the Twins Hard-mode, it seems that each time someone dies, eye frequency increases. If nobody dies, there's hardly any people who get eyes. Is that true or are we crazy?

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Oof, I really don't know. I'd say try asking in the Instances forum and maybe Amlug can provide an answer.

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Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

Stuff

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Thank you for clarifying some of the mechanics of this fight! :)

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Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

When a skill is created the designer is able to choose if they want to allow that skill to be Blocked and/or Parried and/or Evaded and/or Miss on a skill-by-skill basis. For this skill specifically, it cannot Miss or be B/P/E'd.

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Good to know, thanks! Our LMs will feel better about throwing around all the +Miss Chance they can now.

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Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

Oof, I really don't know. I'd say try asking in the Instances forum and maybe Amlug can provide an answer.

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tell amlug to come out of his cave... we miss him.

thanks for answers rask.

yeah miss chance just doesnt have that much value imo... attack speed debuffs are still good at least. Will be nice when our debuffs work properly again.

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Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

When a skill is created the designer is able to choose if they want to allow that skill to be Blocked and/or Parried and/or Evaded and/or Miss on a skill-by-skill basis. For this skill specifically, it cannot Miss or be B/P/E'd.

Good question, I had to ask an Engineer about this one. The way it works is that Person C takes the reduced/distributed 33% damage. Which makes sense because the intention of this mechanic is "Quick! Everyone get close!", and it would be unfortunate/frustrating if everyone got close like they were supposed to only to have half the characters B/P/E the attack while the remaining half take double the damage they were expecting.

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First off, thanks for the post!

But I'm a bit confused by these 2 answers as they seem to contradict each other. First answer says that cleave can't be BPE'd or miss but the second one states that you can :)

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Originally Posted by Hudson7

But I'm a bit confused by these 2 answers as they seem to contradict each other. First answer says that cleave can't be BPE'd or miss but the second one states that you can :)

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The second one is meant to answer: "What if a skill could be BPE'd, how would the split damage work then?"

Thanks! I thought that might be the case but wanted to make sure.

Thanks again, Rask. :)

One more question... (for now, heh):

The Devastating Melee Attack, since this is a new/different attack than the prior Devastating criticals, would those attacks be affected by gear that procs a debuff for -50% devastate damage?

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Originally Posted by vitamin-f

The Devastating Melee Attack, since this is a new/different attack than the prior Devastating criticals, would those attacks be affected by gear that procs a debuff for -50% devastate damage?

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That should be easy enough to test, but sadly I believe most of those items are armor pieces and as such I don't have enough radiance to cover for the loss and still survive the fight.

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Originally Posted by Hudson7

That should be easy enough to test, but sadly I believe most of those items are armor pieces and as such I don't have enough radiance to cover for the loss and still survive the fight.

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Well, I have enough rad to have 0 dread until the last dread increase occurs in Hard Mode before I have to swap in rad pants (Manadhbadanir for the proc). Yes, I'm the Guardian.

It's just hard to gauge easily because my combat log is so spammed with HoTs that, during the fight, it's difficult for me to eye during the fight. Cstats is useful, and so is looking at the combat log saved in a file after the fight, but it doesn't really tell me *when* the proc is on the boss so I can compare. The combat logs also don't tell us when it's a crit, or a devastate crit, and I really, really wish it did.

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Originally Posted by vitamin-f

The Devastating Melee Attack, since this is a new/different attack than the prior Devastating criticals, would those attacks be affected by gear that procs a debuff for -50% devastate damage?

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The easy answer to this is no.

Durchest's Devastating Melee Attack is not a "devastate" by the usual lotro definition. If you look through your combat log, you'll NEVER see the word "devastate" ANYWHERE other than a boss fight - not even if you devastate with Heartseeker for 14,000 damage. The reason for this is that critical/devastate damage is not labeled in our combat logs. All you will see is "you wound such-and-such with Heartseeker for 14,000 points of Whatever damage". The same is true for all damage received - there is no designation of whether or not the boss "crit" an attack on you.

In other words, Devastating Melee Attack will be called as such in your combat log if it hits you for 1 damage or 10,000 damage. It is not because Durchest has a 100% devastate chance, it's simply the name of the skill.

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Originally Posted by UF001

The easy answer to this is no.

Durchest's Devastating Melee Attack is not a "devastate" by the usual lotro definition. If you look through your combat log, you'll NEVER see the word "devastate" ANYWHERE other than a boss fight - not even if you devastate with Heartseeker for 14,000 damage. The reason for this is that critical/devastate damage is not labeled in our combat logs. All you will see is "you wound such-and-such with Heartseeker for 14,000 points of Whatever damage". The same is true for all damage received - there is no designation of whether or not the boss "crit" an attack on you.

In other words, Devastating Melee Attack will be called as such in your combat log if it hits you for 1 damage or 10,000 damage. It is not because Durchest has a 100% devastate chance, it's simply the name of the skill.

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You know, while that seems logical, some of the way things are, ah, put together in this game have left me to always be skeptical. :)

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Originally Posted by vitamin-f

Thanks again, Rask. :)

One more question... (for now, heh):

The Devastating Melee Attack, since this is a new/different attack than the prior Devastating criticals, would those attacks be affected by gear that procs a debuff for -50% devastate damage?

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Nope. That's just the name of the skill, "devastating melee attack". It's not actually getting a Devastating Critical each time it hits.

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Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

Nope. That's just the name of the skill, "devastating melee attack". It's not actually getting a Devastating Critical each time it hits.

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Could it maybe get renamed to avoid such confusion in the future? :o

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Originally Posted by gildhur

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Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

Nope. That's just the name of the skill, "devastating melee attack". It's not actually getting a Devastating Critical each time it hits.

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Could it maybe get renamed to avoid such confusion in the future? :o

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If they weren't trying to confuse players, they would call all large resource nodes "Bountiful" instead of Rich/Heavy... So, I'm not too hopeful.

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Originally Posted by Deusdictum

If they weren't trying to confuse players, they would call all large resource nodes "Bountiful" instead of Rich/Heavy... So, I'm not too hopeful.

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Yeah, consistency has never been a strong suit in this game. :o

If you guys want, pick a suggested replaced for "devastating" and I'll change the skill(s). The format is "a [ADJECTIVE] melee attack".

ravaging
ruinous
destructive
overwhelming

vicious
wicked
concussive

vicious gets my vote

annihilating, calamitous, cataclysmic, catastrophic, crushing, deadly, destructive, disastrous, dire, fatal, grievous, overwhelming, ruinous

I like "cataclysmic" or "ruinous"

ginormous.

Repair-bill-Inducing

badass
buttkicking

I like overwhelming as well. :p

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Originally Posted by Elyske

Repair-bill-Inducing

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Durchest wounds you with REPAIR-BILL-INDUCING STRIKE for 3249!

Yeah, definitely my vote :)

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Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

If you guys want, pick a suggested replaced for "devastating" and I'll change the skill(s). The format is "a [ADJECTIVE] melee attack".

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...a massive melee attack.
...a staggering melee attack.

A lexicalicious melee attack!

Hmm, perhaps not.

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Originally Posted by Nitfol

A lexicalicious melee attack!

Hmm, perhaps not.

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You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later. :cool:

In other news, that word has 0 results on Google. That's a rare find, sir.

http://www.nipponblog.net/chan/b/src/126426832684.gif

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Originally Posted by Nitfol

A lexicalicious melee attack!

Hmm, perhaps not.

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Sounds like Durchest would be holding a high-stakes spelling bee.

DUCHEST: "SUCH A SHAME TO COME SO FAR ONLY TO FAIL!" "SPELL NARCOLEPSY, INSIGNIFICANT WRETCH!!!"

http://curtharlow.com/wordpress/wp-c...d-audience.jpg

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Originally Posted by geoboy

Sounds like Durchest would be holding a high-stakes spelling bee.

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Isn't he? ;)

I like Ruinous...it sounds evil :)

crippling

1234567890 <- not a suggestion, I needed more characters

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Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

If you guys want, pick a suggested replaced for "devastating" and I'll change the skill(s). The format is "a [ADJECTIVE] melee attack".

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cromulent



*more words like boar boar boar*

A scrumtrulescent melee attack?

http://img.timeinc.net/golf/i/news/2...ll_600x600.jpg

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Originally Posted by BIZL

A scrumtrulescent melee attack?

http://img.timeinc.net/golf/i/news/2...ll_600x600.jpg

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I lmao'd. Will Ferrel is god.

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Originally Posted by Snorii

cromulent

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I like this one... it really embiggens the skill.

Edit: Oh, I've decided to go with "massive" as it feels simple and fits well with the other basic attacks: weak, minor, moderate, strong, mighty, deadly.

Can you promise us to consider Repair-Bill-Inducing as a future attack name? Pretty please? :)

Aww.

I was hoping for "Durchest wounds you like a BOSS!"

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Originally Posted by Elyske

Can you promise us to consider Repair-Bill-Inducing as a future attack name? Pretty please? :)

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I'll see if I can sneak it into a Festival somewhere.

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Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

I like this one... it really embiggens the skill.

Edit: Oh, I've decided to go with "massive" as it feels simple and fits well with the other basic attacks: weak, minor, moderate, strong, mighty, deadly.

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http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/2...ent8025240.jpg

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Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

I'll see if I can sneak it into a Festival somewhere.

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Ily <3 :D :D :D

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Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

Nope. That's just the name of the skill, "devastating melee attack". It's not actually getting a Devastating Critical each time it hits.

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Thanks! That's what I figured, but I've long discovered that asking a question often achieves better results than assuming, especially when someone (you) may give a definitive result.

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Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

I like this one... it really embiggens the skill.

Edit: Oh, I've decided to go with "massive" as it feels simple and fits well with the other basic attacks: weak, minor, moderate, strong, mighty, deadly.

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That's very cool of you. "Massive" would be far more straightforward. Thank you again!

Massive Attack... I love their music!! :D

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Originally Posted by Nepenthea

Massive Attack... I love their music!! :D

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Hah! I didn't even notice that.

When you can't find the right word Supercalifragilisticexpealidoc ius works. A little long, granted.

Of course you can say it backwards which is...eh...nevermind.