Over the next few weeks we will be focusing on the classes in our Tell the Community Team threads. In keeping with that theme, we want your help. If you could give one tip to a new player about playing the Burglar class, what would it be?
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Over the next few weeks we will be focusing on the classes in our Tell the Community Team threads. In keeping with that theme, we want your help. If you could give one tip to a new player about playing the Burglar class, what would it be?
TIP: Don't just run in and melee. You need to set up your attacks before you strike; i.e. sneak, reveal weakness, aim, etc. I died a lot when my burg was young cuz I was trying to play her like a champ :)
If you go to the 'moors, be ready to be tracked non-stop, be run down by the excessive run speed buffs Creeps have, and only have 2 chances to escape (HIPS on 7-10 minute cooldowns, legacy dependent, and by using RnA) to counter multiple tracking talismans that only have 1 minute cooldowns. Once your HIPS and RNA are on cooldown, expect to be zerged repeatedly.
You've got an arsenal of some of the most unique debuffs, abilities and skills in the game at your disposal. Experiment with them! Combine them in creative ways (especially the ability to Hide in Plain Sight) to accomplish some truly amazing things.
Patience is a virtue! Like someone else said if think burglars look like champs because of the critical response chain.... YOU'RE RIGHT! They do look like champs but don't play it like that. Honestly, they call hunters lazy but when I don't feel like fighting mobs for a collection quest, just sneak around people. It's amazing what sneak can do. More specifically and less generally: use enrage to get something off a minstrel but don't keep it on once you think someone else has it. Use provoke as much as possible when a target is on the tank, especially in the beginning of the battle. The worst is when a guardian runs in, tags all the mobs and then the minstrel grabs the healing agro.
My tip would be to really learn the intricacies of the class. All classes can be played solo and in groups, and many of them you can button-mash well enough to get along. But a burglar, when played well, can be very effective. It can be a difficult class to play well so understanding each skill is imperative. Plus there is just something very satisfying about sneaking through an entire quest, getting the end loots, and sneaking out again. Burglars have a wide range of capabilities and it is up to the player to determine how the burglar can best fit each unique situation.
Don't forget to HIPS every 10 minutes to get your leafwalker trait, even if you have to use a kitchen timer to remind you. Suppress the urge to save HIPS for the emergency that won't happen for hours yet. Leafwalker is a great trait.
Also pure awesomeness is to find a friend to rank a burg with you. Two burgs have crazy bad skills to get out of almost any situation, loads and loads of fun.
Think beyond what each skills does, and strive to see what each skill can be MADE to do. For example, riddle can keep a mob out of combat but it can be used as an emergency "addle" as well. Or, enrage can be used in a skirmish to make a mob present its backside to you every other hit, bouncing aggro between you and your soldier. That sort of thinking outside the skill descriptions can really allow you to do amazing things.
Have to agree with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by muleskinner2
My burg was 65 for months before I got Leaf Walker. Made my moors buddies awfully frustrated at me because I couldn't keep up.
I always saved it for those rare occasions when "you absolutely need it", and as such never finished the deed until long after I needed it.
Try to educate yourself on Fellowship Maneuvers. The system's pretty easy to understand once you pick up the basics (go around the color wheel in either direction, put the same colors all in a row, etc.) and a well-executed Fellowship Maneuvers can be a boon to group play at all levels. Since the ability to trigger Fellowship Maneuvers at will is one of the Burg's "claims to fame," why not make yourself a master on the topic? :)
Burglars have a very wide range of skills and abilities available to them. Learn and experiment with each of them to get the most out of the class.
This is the most important thing for a new player to know. Stop and think before running into a mobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frieja
Provoke and counter defense are good low cost skills to fill out a rotation.
Traited counter defense is also a HUGE dps boost. Not only does it leave most enemies unable to block/parry/evade (so, about a 10-20% boost in overall damage) it also raises your chance to crit that enemy, which is not only even more damage, but gets you into your hard hitting crit response skills. Counter defense is your go-to trick when you don't have a particular reason to be using one of the special purpose ones.
Once you have your initial debuffs applied don't worry so much about secondary effects when fighting trash, just find what gives good damage for low power without a huge animation time. Once the fight is going 90% of your skills could be renamed in the fashion of "stab" and "more different stab"
Really watch out for the animation times. They're all over the place. A skill may sound good on paper, but not always work out so well in a rotation.
Use judgement with your bleed skills. They do rather unimpressive damage (bleed damage is mitigated in this game), and prevent much of our crowd control. Evaluate when the tradeoff is worthwhile.
Stealth openers are really nice early on. If Aim isn't ready, you may want to open with your bleed instead since it doesn't need the crit to get boosted bleed damage. Later, it's mostly not worth the time to stealth up to an enemy unless you have Aim up, or you need a from-stealth ability. Stealth will still save you a HUGE amount of time getting around trash. There's a lot of trash...
Your abilities are going to get resisted. A lot. Like, a crazy lot. Keep an eye out for that. Try not to get yourself into situations where one resist is game over.
Your long cooldowns can save you from just about anything. Remember them.
Use Hide in Plain Sight when you're standing around town. It takes a lot of uses to get Leafwalker, and Leafwalker is AWESOME when you do need your stealth.
Remember your positional bonus. Did you just stun something? Get behind it. When you get exposed throat you'll be getting random stuns from it (conjunctions when grouped). When that stun lands, get behind.
Most of your crit response skills eat a lot of power. Be mindful of their cost if you're getting low. Flashing Blades is the exception. It has a fantastic power to damage ratio. It just takes forever to animate.
If you decide to play in PvMP, play so everyone has fun. Go in and get tanked from time to time and players will enjoy seeing you out there. Only trying to gank creeps without ever getting ganked yourself will put a huge target circle on your back and won't help burglar rep at all. Remember, you're just one class out there. Play for fun and you won't be labeled as a warg wannabe. :)
Tips for a NEW Burglar?
1)Read these forums and LEARN from the experience of thousands of hours of gaming by the BURGS that have come before you. Some of these people have answers to questions you'll never even think to ask.
2)Walk, don't run into combat. Only fools rush in to battle. Plan you actions like a chess game, know what you want to accomplish and do that. When that task is finished, go on to the next task. ALWAYS HAVE AN OUT.
3)Nothing worth having comes easy. Burglar is an ADVANCED class! It's going to take some time to understand, let alone master all the skills and the skills are a bit weak up to the mid 30's. At 40, try to control your excitement when you start to feel invincible, you're not (remember where you came from), stay cautious.
4)Burglars are VERY under valued because most players do not understand the class. Many people who start a burg lose interest because it's just "too slow" (really, it's just too difficult for some people, there's no easy mode for Burgs ) to level compared to .....
hunters, champs.... So most are clueless to what we really do to make a group better.
Burglars are not just about FM's. A good Burglar can make an average group good and a good group great. Yes, we can have that much impact.
And don't be afraid to take control of the groups FM choices. By LVL 40 YOU should be the authority on when and what FM is played. DO YOUR HOMEWORK!
5)Be creative, try different things. This game is full of those "aha" moments and the most fun I've had playing this game is the discovery of some "new" way to do something old.
6)When it stops being fun, go to a movie, take a break. When you get back, you'll have a new thirst for the game.
My 2 cents.
Exploit Opening is not just for starting FMs. When playing solo it is also a useful stun to let you get behind your target for a couple seconds.
1. A burg isn't a power hitter like the champ or guardian. The most I've ever taken on solo is three at at a time, and that's at full health, armor, with a stomach full of cooked food and trail food. Keep fights to one or two at a time, riddle one and take out other one fast as possible. Cooked food and trail food are your friends, along with power and moral potions, since you can burn through both.
2. Use two weapons at all times. Find the combo that works for you, and trait the ambidextrous trait. This is important, since the burg doesn't have ranged weapons to soften the monster up.
3. There is a way around the no ranged weapons. Either craft or buy at AH throwing daggers or axes. They have same range as bows and a stack only takes up one item slot. Use them to draw aggro of one away from the rest of a mob and you can quickly whittle down a group. Make sure your target isn't too close to others or you'll end up running for it. Addle also works, but it's range is less.
4. Use sneak attacks when there is a lone target or rest of mobs are far enough away. Once you attack, you can't re-enter stealth unless you HIPS, and you can't enter mischief. Use that stealth to get the maximum positional and stealth bonus. Be prepared in case you are noticed before you get in position.
5. Enter mischief if you expect to be in a prolonged battle. Riddle and mischief mode combined are one of the most potent combos available. Just remember you can't riddle creatures of nature. Startling twist is your friend against beasties and bugs.
6. In a fellowship, your job is support, either with stuns, reveal weakness or conjunctions. A burg attacks from the sides or behind, and enhances the main fighters. There are rare occasions where I've acted as the tank, but don't try it until you've mastered working in a group, since it takes serious coordination
Don't try to stand "toe to toe" with an enemy. It's like the saying in the realestate industry - Location (position) is everything :)
and
as others have said it's an advanced class, the forums are great sources of clues tip and tricks, so use them.
At 30 use enrage as much as you can. I slot blind fury when soloing and use it to bring ranged foes to me while taking out the melee mobs.
Lots of good points already raised.
When it comes to CC, your riddle can be useful in situations that LMs don't handle well, e.g. undead. Also, you've got a number of "emergency" type stuns/dazes etc that can be triggered directly or with combos/traits (e.g. Startling Twist, Trip).
In groups, you can off-tank to a limited degree, which can be useful in some situations to lock down mob(s) while the rest of the group is dealing with something else. Be aware though that you have limited ability to grab aggro from others, besides DPS and enrage (while useful, it doesn't transfer aggro specifically and so therefore may cause other issues).
If you do your build right, you should have few power issues in most battles. If you do find yourself with power issues on a regular basis, review your will/fate/ICPR and your skill rotation (you might be using high power skills too often).
Remember to use the tricks - mischievous glee heals nicely and now has a chance for power return as well. Throw in Clever Retort when you can - you might get heals or power or damage.
FMs - there are a few ways to trigger them. For example, get yourself some marbles from a Weaponsmith. Remember also, that in groups, you can always do a HiPS and Trip for another FM.
Avoid the kill-everything mentality. Sometimes you have to fight your way through enemies, but there are often alternatives.
Successfully sneaking around - or even better, through - an enemy camp is possibly the most immersive experience for a burglar.
Learning when and how to sneak can make a big difference to the variety in the game. It definitely breaks up the grind.
It also improves the pace of advancement, as burglars are slower than average at killing quests but can take shortcuts in others to make up for it.
Oh here's one I can't believe I forgot!
TIP #2: NEVER use enrage when grouped with others unless the group leader asks you to. Enraged Balrog = wiped group.
how about trait builds?
Pvp burgs, what are you traiting specifically (Not just quiet knife but which and why)
And raid burgs, is it the gambler line?
Best legancies?
What's with mischief maker devastate? It shows up on 90% of all bags I ID but the burgs I talk to say it sucks.
QK for moors, 5 qk capstone for maximize burst dps, leafwalker and your choice of aoe dust or traited cd. (because if you don't kill that guy in 20s or less expect 10 more creeps to show up and barrel you down)
QK again for pve with a slight twist, trait for improved disable (attack speed reduction = win), and lose your stealth based buffs, and try to gain passive buffs for maximized dps while maintaining your debuffing role. Don't be afraid to use ready and able in pve or other things if it allows your group to win.
If you didn't roll a Hobbit, you're doing it wrong!
Even though you can stealth, stealth is not always the proper solution to a group of mobs. Always make sure, if you're deciding to bypass a mob with stealth, that the item you're picking up is well outside their aggro range. Though it may take longer, it can be far easier to survive if you systematically clear an area, rather than run in, grab an item/assassinate the target, and perhaps get caught while picking it up/killing him by a patrolling mob or nearby group. This was the big realization for my Burg - I used to just stealth by everything, grab objectives, and go. And I died a lot. Being a bit more systematic - maybe using stealth to get past the outer defenses on an area, then killing a nice wide path to the objective once inside - made me a lot more survivable.
Take your time engaging the enemy in PvP. You are a stealth class, and, sometimes, you have the choice of picking which fights you want to get involved in. You are under no obligation to engage an enemy just because the masses do. Be disciplined while having fun. And if you don't find the situation your group, raid or team is engaging in to be in the best interest of the group, raid or team, stay in stealth, toss Reveal Weakness up on the focus fire target. You'll still be helping the raid, but you will not be taking the same unnecessary risks as the rest of the raid. It's a perk of the class. Oh, and don't care what other people think of your playstyle -- you pay to play the game, so you can play however you want.
While you are able to stealth past a lot of stuff, remember that skills cost coin. It won't mean a darn thing that you didn't have to fight anyone to finish that quest if you can't purchase that next really good skill.
That and a lot of the progression presumes that you actually kill people on the way to things. It took the Moria level adjustment to get my Burg un-stuck from around lvl 38, because I actually *ran out* of quests near my level, and needed to grind at least half a level just to get more to open up. I just refused... until I magically became lvl 40 or so, and was able to rework my leveling strategy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupini
These are great, keep them coming please! I've rolled a few burgs in the past 3 years, but haven't gotten any of them past 30 yet. These tips are a goldmine! I've already subscribed to the thread. Looking forward to more! :)
Just to be clear since this is a "new player" thread, this is not true. Both races have good racials for Burg. Man gets a 2% sword bonus which makes swords a competitive option to daggers, a nice emergency heal once an hour, and a +20 will bonus. Hobbits get a ranged pull attack, an emergency feign death once an hour, and a +20 might bonus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Virogar
Ultimately, you should choose based on aesthetics. These racials are so minor that it's ultimately more important that you play a character you will enjoy looking at for hundreds of hours of gameplay.
Exactly, so if you didn't roll a hobbit you are doing it wrong! :p lol j/k (kind of)Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisXerxes
Something to keep in mind is that almost ALL your skills do dmg and not terrible dmg either (well, terrible to the mobs maybe). Some are expensive power-wise if you are trying to use them as dps*. But, in a pinch and especially early on when you don't have your full on-response chain** sometimes you need a couple more hits to finish off the mob before the ugly baddie finishes you off.
Having said that, keep in mind that your skills work off of each other. So if you use a trick (even for dps*) be sure to use you Mischievous Glee or other trick-required-response skill before you move on or it runs out.
When you get a new skill, be sure to look at all the ways it works with all you other skills. You get a total of 4 tricks to use with 3 other skills. Maybe Enrage is the skill you want to use to make them switch agrro and then use Startling Twist to stun the mob, remove the Trick and give the new recipient of the aggro a chance to build more aggro on a stunned mob.
And when you get a new skill, use them as often as possible when they are up. You want to be in the habit of using all the skills you can with a burg. It is easy to specialize or ignore skills when they start to be used less, which is a shame, because all the burg skills are usable in many different scenarios.
Burgs have the most different ways to help a group, they are the play makers. When a burg tells a mob to turn around and ignore them as they take a shiny out of their pockets, they do. When the Burg tells them to stop fighting and ponder the meaning of life, they do and when a burg tells a mob to bleed out, they certainly do. ;)
Since it is for new burgs and plausibly new players with new burgs...
*DPS - Damage Per Second
**on-response chain - Skills that are only available in response to another skill or event taking place.
:DSB
You reminded me of something! Exploit opening should be a "If I absolutely need a cj" move. Normally, your exposed throat should serve as trash mob cjs and random ones. Trip is if something goes wrong: HIPS then trip. This was probably already said, sorry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thayel_Windsong
Good tips! I just picked up Trip last night (DING 28! :)), and should have Hide in Plain Sight at 30. As my "main" is a LM, I like the subtlety and complexity of the class. There's so many options, and learning to use them to their peak effectiveness makes the class quite attractive. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Keene
What is also interesting is there is not a set way to build and play for a burg. We have a lot of great players on this forum and most them build differently and remain equally effective at what they want to do. Even in raids we can argue for pages and pages about the merits of each of the trait lines.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amonceleb
Even from the earliest levels, you can stack a from stealth Cunning Attack with regular Cunning Attack. This is immensely useful in your early teens since you have a "strike from stealth" deed, a "strike from stealth with a crit" deed, and a "use cunning attack" deed. Open with cunning attack from stealth, and with a crit you'll be advancing 3 deeds at once!
Get used to weaving Subtle Stab in between every other attack that you do (i.e. stealth opener > Subtle > Trick > Subtle > Cunning attack > Subtle > Suprise Strike > Subtle > Cunning > Subtle...). Even at 65 with much longer attack rotations, those rotations will still basically be built around Subtle Stab.
Nice tip! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by scrubmonkey
This game does not have collision physics enabled, so as someone previous mentioned if [trait]Exposed Throat[/trait] pops a stun walk directly through the mob to begin using your positional damage bonus.
Don't forget your extended tricks, like marbles, caltrops, and stun dust. I never see these utilized as much as they should.
If you can last until level 25 on your burg, you'll eventually make it to 65, just hang in there.
Don't be disheartened at the earlier levels when playing a burg. Burgs definitely blossom the further you progress with them and as you obtain more of their skills. A skilled burg is nasty to deal with should you ever spar one and can more than hold their own during regular questing.
Get into the habit of learning your game mechanics/skills early. If you see a red/green circle underneath a mob, interrupt the skill induction with Addle (this will become really important later in the game!!). Use the terrain to help your stealth become more effective (hide behind buildings, rocks, trees etc. before stealth attacking or avoiding mobs; use diversion if they're facing your direction, etc.). Sometimes you can combine the two following points: if a ranged mob is doing a skill induction, hide behind a tree and out of LoS until the induction has passed. Sometimes you can coax them over to your position without having to rely on a traited Enrage which is available midway through the game.
Stuns and Mezzes are a burg's friend. We have such a wide variety of both so as the saying goes...use every trick in the book!! Stuns will come through skills/tools like Startling Twist, Stun Dust, Bag of Marbles, Exploit Opening, Trip. Mezzes will come through Riddle, Confound, TG Glee, Leafwalker Provoke in stealth (most effective in 5QK with IFA). Stuns will give you time to deal some extra positional damage, especially when soloing and mezzes will help keep other mobs off your back.
After Startling Twist, learn to obtain positional while re-applying a trick on them at the same time. Use the Q + D or A + E keys to circle behind a mob and it becomes easier to do so since you're still facing them.
And if all else fails...HIPS!! Or use other skills while making your escape like Touch and Go to evade attacks, and DiTE or caltrops to slow mobs. Be sure to plan your escape route ahead of time so you don't aggro more mobs in the process. To quote another saying..."he who lives and runs away, lives to fight another day."
A few tips that have made my Burglar feel really strong in the early going (I'm level 20).
1. Low level crit crafted weapons are amazingly strong. If you have a higher level character or a friend in a Kinship, have them make you a set. They don't require very rare materials because they are low level, but they make a big difference in your damage.
2. Don't save cooldowns. This is similar to what other people mentioned about HiPS. You can go a long way toward advancing your deeds by using Aim on cooldown for every stealth opener. Using defensive cooldowns more liberally will also speed up the leveling process by reducing downtime. You can also probably take on multi-enemy pulls more often than you think by simply rotating through cooldowns. Examples of 2 mob pulls:
-Open with Aim->Surprise Attack on one mob for (at low levels) an instant kill. You can use the crit response on the second mob for a quick kill.
-The next double pull, open on one enemy while Riddling the second.
-The next, use your stun opener on one enemy and finish him off. Just before you finish the second enemy, use Mischievous Glee to heal the damage you took from the un-CC'd enemy.
-For the next double pull, use the Evasion cooldown.
-By the time you've done 4 pulls the shorter cooldowns like Aim, Riddle, and MG will be available again!
3. I have also found that Distract is great for shortening the time you take getting into position while steathed. You'd be surprised how much time you save by using Distract to force the mobs to face away from you while you approach in stealth. Doing this also helps you get the class trait more painlessly.
How did the thread get to THREE PAGES without anyone covering the HiPS Pull!!!
For quest target mobs like the [kill named siggie] quests with a group around them:
-For humanoid mobs, figure out the range where they drop combat and stop following you.
-Pull the entire group
-Run Away
-Riddle your target before they drop aggro
-HiPS
-Hit your target before riddle wears off
-profit.
There's a lot of variation to this, like using startling twist instead of riddle for non-humanoids and just running out of range instead of using HiPS before you have the skill, but they're all the same...
No burg "how to" manual would be complete without this tip. :)
1. lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithrandir3
2. Congratulations, maybe you're not as hard-headed as me... I've spent most of my role-playing/gaming career (I started playing DnD in 1978) "saving" my top abilities (spells, lay on hands, etc.) for "when I had to have them." Consequently, I wouldn't use them or develop the techniques to use them effectively or just never used them.
Fortunately, this game rewards you for working those "must save" abilities so I'm managing to not repeat that mistake. But it's a toughie to not fall back into that self-defeating habit.
Genius! :OQuote:
Originally Posted by scrubmonkey
I think I've done this before, just never put two and two together I guess. Thx!
Don't be afraid to sacrifice a little might/vit/agility for power or ICPR, might/agi don't provide much DPS/crits anymore.
Burgs are really easy to stat balance, because our skills don't depend on them, other than damage output. That applies to grouping skills and stealth.Quote:
Originally Posted by IGolbezI
That means we just stabilise survival first, then go mad on damage. Assuming a non-kamikaze strategy, here's my tip for stat focus:
- First, if you die too often, increase morale/vit. Only add enough to stop dying.
- Once you can live to the end of the fight, if you run out of power against 1-2 mobs, increase power/will. Only add enough so you almost run out. (Regen is for long fights only).
- Then increase might to do more damage and finish the fight faster. This may allow reduction in power and/or morale.
- Finally, increase agility to crit more often. Crits are rare at low levels and crit response skills come late.
Most likely, you'll pick up Agility anyway as you build Vitality and Might, so there is no need to focus on it.
If you're in a group, not dying is usually more important than maximising dps, unless you're always the last one alive. ;) Equally, we shouldn't be needing extra healing/power as we're not tanks or main dps.
Another tip for new players that may have been stated already, but applies to all classes: don't save consumables - you'll out-grow them really fast.
For solo:
1. Always keep reveal weakness on one mob and a trick on every target.
2. Properly equipped Burg can always solo same level elite. Practice this often to feel the difference each new skill makes. Each skill is useful.
3. Always use your stuns and positional damage (startling twist, exploit opening, riddle if traited, stunning dust, bag of marbles, provoke if full quiet knife + leafwalker-spec'ed).
For groups:
1. Always keep reveal weakness on the assist target and a trick on every target.
2. Be ready to pop on a boss / mob if the things go south. Fellowship maneuvers can make a difference between wipe and victory.
3. Spec according to the group makeup – experiment with class traits a lot. You can output single-target dps as good as a champ, debuff / cc almost as good as a loremaster, or develop your unique playstyle.
This thread really inspires me! I think im going to try to get my Man Burglar to level 65!
After taking most of the Summer off, I dusted off my mid-level burg and started playing it again. As it turns out, skirmishes almost seem designed to help a burg develop strategies!
I invested in a Protector soldier; I didn't need high damage, but I needed a soldier that could take a few hits while keeping everyone's attention. If they're hitting him, their backs are to me. Are you seeing where I'm heading with this? :D
Not only do you earn decent XP (and eventually IXP) and coin, but you get to try out various techniques in a reasonably controlled environment, particularly with the offensive skirmishes. There are no re-spawns, and you usually have plenty of room to run and kite (if that becomes necessary, and that's not all that often unless you're waiting for a cooldown to expire.) Working through your rotations and engaging multiple targets becomes second nature while running skirmishes.
I typically run in Mischief mode, as it's really tough trying to sneak up on stuff with an eager but dumb-as-a-box-of-rocks solider unerringly following your stealthed self. It's doable stealthed, but takes a bit more time and set-up.
Good gear is critical! I don't necessarily mean you have to invest in every single level upgrade to armor and weapons when it becomes available, but I do typically make crit-crafted (not one-of's...yet) that will last me at least 5-6 levels before I need to think about upgrading again. This is a good rule of thumb for any class, but I've found it particularly true with burgs. I've had the chance to group with same level burgs who had "standard issue" (or in some rare cases, sub-par) gear, and your ability to take and dish-out significantly more damage with high quality gear is markedly apparent when compared side-by-side like this. I'm not a min-maxer by any means, but state-of-the-art equipment will allow you to not just survive but thrive where others fear to tread.
Use your tricks often! Not only do they debuff (and in some cases, radically debuff) your target, some of the juiciest burg abilities are chained off tricks, including your self-heal, a very substantial stun, and my personal favorite, "Clever Retort", which is sort of like a random, one-man Fellowship Maneuver. You never quite know what you're going to get with CR, but it's always good! :)
My burg is now in the mid-30's and I've really "turned the corner" with the toon. Every new skill is a tool in an ever-expanding arsenal, and learning how each tool interacts and can be used to fullest benefit is a reward all in itself!
nice thread. I will be checking here regularly until I get my feet wet enough to give some tips myself :)
This should be required reading for anyone who wants to properly fulfill their role in a group:
http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/A_Bas...or_Fellowships
While still a nice read, this post greatly undervalues the burglar, which I suspect is because it predates some of the things we can do now.Quote:
Originally Posted by BaruDwarf
A modern burg can, with a variety of trait setups, have a LOT more crowd control than the 2 listed skills. It also ignores the very important roles of interrupts and corruption removal -- while burglar is not the best at CR, he is hands down the best at interruption (assuming he has a legendary item.... lower levels, champions are better at this role due to cooldowns). It ignores mischief mode, which allows the burg to reapply riddle.
To update it is complicated though, as it depends on the level of the burglar, his chosen traits, etc, and unfortunately would take a couple of pages of burg details.
So, let me try to keep it short while improving upon whats there.
Before level 51:
The link is more or less correct, and a great guide for lower level players. However note that mid level burglars get mischief mode now, which allows riddle to be reapplied every 30 seconds for 100% lockdown of one enemy.
After level 51:
The burglar gains the ability to reliably mez up to 7 mobs in a pull if traited for it:
1) Aggro, then apply confound to mez 4 of the enemy (traited confound enables this).
2) HIPS, then apply provoke (traited leafwalker enables this).
3) riddle one enemy (always possible to do)
4) Trick/glee one enemy (requires several gambler traits to enable)
The above is almost always overkill, unless soloing an instance. Normally, if a player can keep 2 of his enemy locked down, that is sufficient, and 75% of the time or more, a single enemy kept on lockdown is all that is required. However it does show what the class *can* do if needed.
After level 58:
A feint attack traited burglar with the leafwalker trait, legenday feint attack trait, and a feint attack legendary item can provoke-mez one mob for up to 60 seconds every 15 seconds, for the ability to control 1-2 mobs very effectively using riddle as backup.
Also note that every class now starts a number of conjunctions at random times, making it less of our job and more of a group-wide job. *Every* player should glance at the power/morale bars of the group an at what FM colors have been used so far. For example, if the champ notices that his healer is out of power, he clicks blue if he is first, or if there are 3 greens he adds a blue to encourage pure of heart, etc. Its a group effort to get what is needed from each CJ rather than the older "follow the burg" mentality. The burg, if he can, still does the "follow the burg" approach to encourage the correct FM to be played, but all too often the FM was started by someone else at random and the burg may not even be the first to click a color. Anyway, as a burg, if you can start a FM and lead the group to heal itself or power up etc, then do so as needed. If the enemy is already immune to FM starter skills, or if someone else starts one, its out of your hands, esp if someone already clicked a color.
Other minor things wrong with the document can largely be ignored, for example RK and Hunter can be interchanged for the most part, but RK probably did not exist when it was written. Basically, read it, read my burglar specific updates, and take the data with a large grain of salt due to the age of the document ---- the history of the document speaks for itself, the ONLY change since 2008 is to add one line: Wardens are tanks too.
Pardon my ignorance, but I'm confused by something I'm reading in this most excellent and informative thread. I am curious what do people mean by "build"?Quote:
Originally Posted by lazjen
I have yet to be able to raise stats based on level advancement, they seem to raise on their own against my will. Did I do something wrong at the beginning? Is the build deed based (some seem to allude to the class deed chains eg the quiet knife)?
Is it something that one can change later? Have I potentially unwittingly messed it up at level 19? I took a Hobbit Burglar and I believe when I asked I said emphasize agility and I've had no chance that I know of unless there are stored points somewhere waiting to distribute?
Can someone please explain the basic principles of how one does a "build"? With as few acronyms as possible, or at least define them the first time you use them?
Thanks so much this thread is fascinating and makes me more excited to play a burglar!
"Build" refers to the player controlled aspects of your character:
- equipment (armour, jewellery, weapons - from quest rewards, corpse looting or auction house)
- traits & virtues (earned from adventuring then equipped at a Bard)
These are not locked in, so as you collect more equipment, traits and virtues you can swap things around. Equipment can pretty much be swapped around anywhere, but traits and virtues can only be changed at a Bard.
As you change these things around, your base stats (Might, Agility, Vitality, Fate, Will) vary, which flow on to affect many other things:
- how much damage you do when fighting
- how much damage you take when fighting
- your morale and power levels
- and much more
In my opinion, burglars should prioritise their base stats as follows:
1. Morale and Vitality (1 Vitality gives 3 Morale)
2. Might (increases damage dealt)
3. Agility (slightly increase damage dealt)
Thank you so much for your response you allayed my fears. I'm even more excited to play this game now because it doesn't have blind alleys. You can apparently always adjust your character with traits and equipment.Quote:
Originally Posted by slack_n_hash
Burglars are not champions, tanks,wardens, no class is the same and it is extreamly not recommanded to play ANY class like another class. You play your class and thats what people want. People want a Burglar, not a tank.
burglars are diffrent from ALL classes. we are misleading in our combat,i pull tricks no one would of thought of. That is a burg. Never,ever, try to to hold aggro. That is a tanks job. Do not expect to aggro a hole camp and tank on all of them like a champ.
Our job, our dutie! Is to the art of the burglar.
The art of the burglar is hard to master. But so much treasure is gained in the process. have a quest to get a order in a camp but dont feel like taking on the enemies inside? No problem. We are burgs will steal behind there backs and no one will ever know we where there.
when playing a burg you must
1: when in stealth, be carful dont to be seen, when attacking a enemy in stealth do any debuffs you can like reveal weakness that wont bring you out of stealth.
2: Remember to put tricks/debuffs on your enemy this is vital!
3: This applys to almost all classes, do not press/click your skills 20 times in 1 second. a burglar must use careful stratagie in his battles.
4: burglars do more damage from behind so if you can try to get behind and attack.
Read your skills when you get new ones, and give them some thought. Look into older skills, because much of what the BUR does has to do with interactions between skills.
When you stun an enemy, get behind it quickly by running through it and doing a 180 with your mouse-look (right-click and hold while you drag). This is infinitely faster than using keys to turn. With practise, you can get your stun off as you are running through them, turn and attack without missing a beat. I like to do Counter Defence after the Startling Twist stuns, then either Surprise Strike or Well-placed Strike, depending on what's up. Especially traited, Counter Defence is a no-brainer when you are getting positional modifiers and looking to crit. Well-placed Strike has a little more than just enough time to execute in this circumstance if you do nothing else but add a Trick when you first rotate. If you get very very good at this, you can get away with Aim, as well.
If you are expecting to be up against one or two enemies, a Stealth-based approach seems faster, if riskier, as unexpected adds can be more difficult to manage. If you are expecting to fight multiples (not counting rinky-dink swarms like the Moria-keeper's bats, which fall easily to Knives Out), back off and find a safe place to break Stealth, then enter Mischief.
Mez-pulling is a great tool solo or in groups. Basically you mez whatever you want mezzed, and everything else comes for you. Ranged attackers who will not politely come into melee range can be forced to oblige with a yellow line trait that causes them to be extremely likely to engage you in melee when you use Enrage.
As far as "emergency" skills that feed trait deed progress, I suggest that whenever you login to your BUR, you pop those skills and go on about your administrative business, like moving inventory, crafting, etc. This is the same way my CHN painlessly got the Controlled Burn trait.
I'm loving my Burglar more and more as I hit level 22 last night. Anyone have more tips to add to this? I know it's an old thread, and maybe it's run it's course. But I'm eager for more nuggets of knowledge that I can pilfer from my fellow burglars. :D
I have made it to 35 :D and I am loving it, Sure your burg is much different from others, but they have a skill all there own. Who needs to kill trash? sure you may get loot, but thats only going to kick you in the butt later.
As was said many times, you got to think ahead, look at the mobs, figure whos your target and choose your combo. and reading else where Burgs are the handy man.
I figure it more affective using trip then beat the heck out of them from behind, riddle the more threatening foe when they approached, and if you got more then you expect, I find if you hit tap and use each of your tricks on each so they would deal less damage too you then they would normally do, while this touch and go would fit in nicely . But after all this is done, you have all your cool downs going. guess what! just go stealth and hide in a corner. This promotes PIPE-WEED! but the moral of this story is, Its much more difficult to handle big groups, so take your time, its only a game. (for those who think its only a game. ) if you can't take your time then this burg business is not your business
Gamble : I personally enjoy this but it is kinda difficult to pull off on weak/trash mobs, by the time you Get one off, they are dead! I personally like info on when is the best time to use this.. Big bosses is the only one I can think of, but other then this little set back it is cool seeing a dice above the monsters head, tell you, you got a 6.
Quiet knives :seems to be more of the poplar choice, but I run out of power often with this. Too many Critical-hits, if only Crits did more like heal!... then we would be invincible . :D
and Finally
mischief maker: Great for groups stuff. mass dust in the eyes, will save a Protectors life :P more time to Riddle does not hurt. turning 8% in to 10% reveal weakens and many other nifty features.
if you wishing for a world of hurting, DO Burg and Historian.... Don't recommend this, takes too long to Farm relics But those pots Are vary handy.
It seems strange to me that no one has mentioned diversion in this thread yet. I found it to be absolutely necessary skil to have when you do a lot of sneaking on to mobs.
Everyone knows this annoying situation when you're sneaking in to hit the mob but when you're half-way there the creature just takes off walking away from you and you have to chase it around which is not easy while in sneak.
And that's where diversion really shines! When you use diversion the enemy stops for a few seconds aven if it was going somewhere before. This just gives you enough time to get to attack range and unleash your best hit!
Personally whenever I'm fighting lots of beasts or creatures of nature I tend to use Diversion on every mob even if its stationary because you never know when it decides to start walking away. Plus this skill's animation can be performed while moving so i see absolutely no reason not to use it. It definitely saved me a lot of nerves.
And another thing that I wanted to add to this great thread is that as burglar in most cases you can do higher level quests (yellow, orange, even red sometimes) and do use this opportunity especially when it comes to Epic quests. They usually offer some nice rewards and quests' rewarded items are dirrefent to, say, crafted ones because they are BoA and usually have no lvl restrictions. So by doing high-level content early you can make your life so much easier just by getting equipped with nice gear well ahead of your level.
Diversion is also great if you want to sneak past mobs. They are much less likely to see you if you can face them away.
Oh and if you ever find yourself going for all-burglar instance (which happens sometimes) then that's where Enrage really shines as you don't have a proper tank. This way you can spread the damage among all six of you which is enough for most cases.
Very great tips for new players like myself :) Currently a level 22 Human-Burg
Would like to add as well:
1. Know your cooldowns - if you do, you can go non stop killing mobs without even topping up using a potion. I literally went straight from 0% to 50% with 1 run just going around this spot filled with those orcs north of bree. stopping only because I need to run to get more mobs...and because my hands were tired hehe.
2. Get a rotation down. Same as #1. Plus get a comfortable layout for your skills, so you dont need to look at your skillbar all the time while fighting.
3. Know your skills - like what they have mentioned read it, practice it.
4. And lastly...do not panic!
I did #1 with the mishief stance. So mischief+riddle was a big part of my CC. And yeah keep using that evade skill and not just on emergency situations. I also tend to head into a mob of 2 to 3 just to put myself in the worst situation possible to practice my burglar skills, but I guess that's how i play solo (of course in raids playstyle should be different).
Should a burglar use two daggers or a sword? i have both options so i could use some help.
Whatever gives you the best stats while leveling up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexo2cool
The top of the spire in the middle of the giants in misty mountains is too far for safe fall to save you.
Tip: Kill as many creeps as you can... B)
To all new burglars from lvl 20-65 do not think that qk is always the way to go . Try experiementing with pure mischief maker traits.Though people say dont treat i burglar like a champion i use it like one in many diferent ways.For starters 3 of one type of any human/orc/goblin type mob can by any burglar easily be dealt with.Riddle the first,drop disable on the second then use startling twist.Now at this point u have about 7 seconds to kill the 3rd enemy apart of the mob which u should be able to rap up quick.Now the second one comes back drop a second disable on him and u mischevious glee which heals u up to max about, then finish him.Then the one u riddle comes back and sense u have mischief activated it takes 30 seconds cool down for riddle and riddle last 30 seconds so its up to u if u want to riddle the last one or finish him easy.So for me i dont know if other burgs do this but like any other tanking class i run in there and can take down 3-4 guys with much ease.Unlike qk where u want to finish fights fast as possible time is on your side with mischief activated.Anyways if anything goes wrong and the mob get some really lucky stuns u can touch and go and finish mob with that or u can use Hips and get outa there.=] Just wanted to bring to all burglars attention that slinking in shadows and backstabbing enemies[as fun as that is] isnt the only option. i have played through 4 burgs to about lvl 30 then started over until now i have my lvl 37 burg who im going to get lvl 65 with.In all my years of lotro i have only died once on all my burgs....and that was because i didnt use practice fall in time=] So my last thing trust in your burgs on your abilities to make it out of every fight alive ud be surpised how long a burglar can last in any fight=] anyways hopes this help=] mischeif for the win.Also[last thing] clever retort which comes when u have mischief activated opens up so many possibilities a sigificant self-heal.a pure damage,and an over time damage and a i dont know about the last one for shure but an evade self buff.All for only 34 power this itself makes me love mischeif even more.
Great thread, it has a ton of useful info. Thanks! Can't wait to learn a few tricks of my own to share here. :D
Try to always have your evade rating high.You will notice great difference in pvp especially if u cap it (->25%).It means that in 4 attacks u take u evade the one and in combination with T&G u are untouchable. ;)
Parry rating is important too btw.
Worth pointing out that your Riddle now affects any creature type not just human/orc/goblin. Which is rather lovely :)Quote:
Originally Posted by 16tiger16
An alternate way of dealing with 3 mobs that you can't separate, particularly if you are QK and more bleed traited, is open with Well Placed Strike, maybe top up with a Cunning Attack then pop a Disable on it. Riddle the next. Reveal Weakness (do it before, if you can) + Dust on the third. Startling Twist and Counter Defence. Get behind and go for it ! Replace Twist with Exploit Opening. Touch and Go if needed, and this is particularly nice as if you have Stick and Move, as you should be able to keep your Crit Chain up evading the bleeding mob whilst stabbing his mate in the back.
Takes a bit of planning, but when it works you finish off one mob, just as the 2nd drops dead from his wounds, and the 3rd wakes up. Just make sure you have enough bleed damage !
Remember you have many tools! utilize them! all the tricks you have are great reducing damage can be good anywhere and also increasing your enemies miss chance. Also you can use a trick and then use mischevious glee or startling twist to turn the battle tides.
mischevious glee can be activated after preforming a succesful trick, this skill adds a heal and a small HoT or heal over time
Startling twist can be used after preforming a succesful trick and depending on what grade of startling swist you have will have this effect
Stun a single target for 8 seconds regardless of taking damage
Stun a single target for 8 seconds regardless of taking damage and removes corruption
Stun up to three targets for 8 seconds regardless of taking damage and removes corruption
tricks are important to combat. Remeber bend the guidelines of skills get creative. use skills for new uses!
play a range DPS class if you want to play in the moors. turbine has taken away every unique class skill or made it useless in the moors. Run from this class if pvp is your end point.
Not true despite the many nerfs thrown at burgs we still can survive. tracking has long cooldown and you need to pay commendations for the trait to track stealth. We still have auto crit at level 70 3 survival cooldowns 2 damage cooldowns and 2 cooldown resets. A great tip STACK AGILITY. I can't stress this enough agilit gives evade and you can survive beeter when playing in the moors. You need to just adapt to the changes when they come. We will get class love in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifreborn1
Wardens minstrels... We will in time.
If you are being asked to keep a mob mezzed, 'on lockdown' w/e by your group while they pummel other mobs, hover over the mob you are to mezz and click 'h'. Will bring up a box with the mobs name. Makes it very easy to retarget the mob when your riddle needs to be reapplied.