Things to look forward to in the Update!

With so much gloom 'n doom on the forum over some of the more controversial aspects of the Update (F2P, "convenience vs. advantage", etc), I thought it might be nice to have a thread where people talk about what they're looking forward to in the Update. Let's keep the complaints and conspiracy theories elsewhere, please, plenty of room for those in other threads.

Here's my list:

1. LUA Plugins. There is an excellent series of posts by Gedachtnis here with an overview of some of the currently available plugins and their usage. I've played around with some of these in Beta, and they are very useful, and voluntary, so you don't have to use them unless you want to. Hopefully, as the API expands, this will always be the case.

2. New Zone. What's not to like about new lands/monsters/quests/etc? I haven't seen it myself (been leveling a lowbie), but I'm looking forward to exploring it with my live characters.

3. New Horses. 'Nuff said.

4. DirectX 11. I don't have a capable video card myself, but it's good to see that Turbine is keeping up with developments in video technology. If you're not evolving, you're moving backwards.

5. Scalable Classic Instances. So full of Win.

6. (Removed)

7. Wardrobe. I am so looking forward to freeing up Vault space from having multiple color-dyed outfits on different characters.

8. Trash loot "compaction". Less varieties of trash loot, and bigger stacks.

9. Slayer Deed speedup Store Items. With 9 characters, Slayer Deeds are the bane of my existence. REALLY looking forward to these.

What are looking forward to?

I'd say that your list sums up most of the things that I think will be good with the exception of #6. I absolutely do not like the idea of layered instances and breaking the world up.

I'll deal with a bit of lag to see more people around and feel more like the area is alive with activity. This is one of the biggest things I HATED about Age of Conan. I just hope they use it here in LOTRO much more sparingly and ONLY as a way to mitigate poor server performance for areas that are jam packed with players.

If I end up switching layers a lot, or can't see my friends when we're standing in the exact same place I'll probably rage quit for that session.

I'm looking forward to the changes in the Moors. Based on the love that Captains, Guards, Champs and LMs got Freepside, we should see more melee out in the zone which means more gritty fights and less pew pew fests.

The removal of CJs is huge and very welcome. Less fights while grey-barred is good for all. I expect that the action in the Moors will be the best it's been since SoA Book 12.

1. 2 new Hunter skills and an upgrade to blidnslide.

2. 2 broekn class lines in captain fix.

3. The second ages I miss on my toons.

4. A lot more people to enjoy the starter areas.

That, and some of the stuff you say :)

I'm looking forward to getting to know my kin again:) With all the time in beta I have not seen much of them.

Probably small potatoes, but I am really looking forward to starting a new character in the revamped tutorial and intro area. I rolled a Guard in the beta, and had a great time with it. The new wardrobe system is something I'm looking forward to playing with, I haven't had a chance to do that yet as I have a F2P account in the beta and no points left to spend. :o
And please don't pounce on me, but I am really looking forward to all the new goodies in the Lotro store!

Pretty much most of the stuff listed is great stuff and I am looking forward to most of it... at least the stuff I know about and such.

But honestly, the thing I am most excited about is the idea that there will be new people in the game. I see F2P as the "free trial" on steroids that will draw in more subscribers after they get hooked like the rest of us :p. Hehe, it's probably the main reason I've been lurking on the new player threads lately :D.

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Originally Posted by LordRingz

6. Layered Instances. Bye-bye, 21st Hall lag-fest.

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Not likely...


From what I've heard, it's only when there are more people than the social panel can display at once that it will start layering. That means you can still have 150-200 people in the 21st hall bogging it down...


Of course, they might create smaller layers for smaller-yet-just-as-crowded areas like the 21st, but the above is how it works in spots like Bree and Thorins hall.

Aren't they making it so you can start critting on crafting recipes once you have the yellow bar (proficiency) rather than the yellow anvil (mastery)?

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Originally Posted by sir-rinthian

Not likely...


From what I've heard, it's only when there are more people than the social panel can display at once that it will start layering. That means you can still have 150-200 people in the 21st hall bogging it down...


Of course, they might create smaller layers for smaller-yet-just-as-crowded areas like the 21st, but the above is how it works in spots like Bree and Thorins hall.

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Wait... so does that mean epic events like Weatherstock can never happen again? :(

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Originally Posted by Fionnuala

Wait... so does that mean epic events like Weatherstock can never happen again? :(

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Nope, the devs have said they'll be able to turn off the layering for events like that.

Also, you can drag people from one layer to another via fellowships.


1 person in the layer you want everyone to be in starts the fellowship and invites people from the other layers, then they sort of teleport to the fellowship leader's layer.

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Originally Posted by MysterX

Aren't they making it so you can start critting on crafting recipes once you have the yellow bar (proficiency) rather than the yellow anvil (mastery)?

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That is correct.

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Originally Posted by Fionnuala

Wait... so does that mean epic events like Weatherstock can never happen again? :(

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Originally Posted by sir-rinthian

Nope, the devs have said they'll be able to turn off the layering for events like that.

Also, you can drag people from one layer to another via fellowships.

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Dynamic layers are not in effect everywhere, either, only places like Bree, 21st, etc., will have dynamic layering. I have not heard that it's set to the social panel. According to the devs, it's scalable and was set to low levels (to force layers) for testing.

Good lists so far- covered most of what I would say. I would add:

More vault storage available, and not hidden behind level locks. My lvl 35 SM crafter can now have all their storage slots opened. Yay!

More shared storage available! Even better for keeping all my main crafting supplies.

I like the new vault- more so than the old one, and with a couple of tweaks more on it, I've very much looking forward to it. Once I got used to it in beta, I've found the old one so much of a pain in comparison.

Being able to buy the horse riding skill. Earning it was fun the first time, ok the second and third times, an absolute pain in the neck every time after that. Knowing I never have to do it again = :D

Really looking forward to the plugins and seeing how they are developed by the players. I see some very neat things coming from those.

The others that come to mind have already been mentioned.

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Originally Posted by willwheels

Dynamic layers are not in effect everywhere, either, only places like Bree, 21st, etc., will have dynamic layering. I have not heard that it's set to the social panel. According to the devs, it's scalable and was set to low levels (to force layers) for testing.

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When I was in the dev layer test there were close to 200 of us in my layer.

My understanding that the layer limit is adjustable. It can be turned on and off for special events. It will not be used everywhere. You can not use in the Ettenmoors because of the flippable keeps and the buff artifacts. I doubt they will layer the Forochel or Annuminas because of the control points. Forochel you could layer the portion that is not part of the four battle grounds

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Originally Posted by willwheels

Dynamic layers are not in effect everywhere, either, only places like Bree, 21st, etc., will have dynamic layering. I have not heard that it's set to the social panel. According to the devs, it's scalable and was set to low levels (to force layers) for testing.

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Correct. This is set based on our server performance tuning and can be adjusted as needed. It is not tied to the social panel. It is not always in effect in all areas, even those we turn it on for. If the populations drop below those thresholds in that area, then there will only be one layer, if it goes above it then the number of layers will grow according to need and performance requirements. One might even say...dynamically.

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Originally Posted by willwheels

I have not heard that it's set to the social panel. According to the devs, it's scalable and was set to low levels (to force layers) for testing.

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I haven't either - its just that 150-200 is around the number of players they seem to let into a layer, and that also happens to be the number of players you can see in the social panel.


So if it says 200+, chances are you've got some layers going.

If you never played AoC and you think layers are a good idea, then you don't understand just how much they can ruin the immersion. This is the single worst thing they are doing in the update.

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Originally Posted by Hesiod_LOTRO

If you never played AoC and you think layers are a good idea, then you don't understand just how much they can ruin the immersion. This is the single worst thing they are doing in the update.

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Hmmm. Well, I never did play AoC, and I don't see the big deal about them, other than cutting down on the lag when there are a lot of players concentrated in a small area. But I'm trying to keep this thread positive, so I'm removing that item from the list.

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Originally Posted by willwheels

Dynamic layers are not in effect everywhere, either, only places like Bree, 21st, etc., will have dynamic layering. I have not heard that it's set to the social panel. According to the devs, it's scalable and was set to low levels (to force layers) for testing.

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I've had the Dynamic Layer notification pop up on landscape in Enedwaith.

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Originally Posted by Golledhel

I've had the Dynamic Layer notification pop up on landscape in Enedwaith.

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That would be logical though.

New area = mass stampede of people, especially if a bunch of old level capped players come back as premium accounts.

They'll probably have layering in there for the first couple weeks, so we don't end up with 50 people killing 20 half-orcs the way we did in Eregion.

Once the numbers thin out, they won't need it any more and should turn it off.

For goodness sake, Sapience just said that it will be dynamic and will layer the areas when the performance is affected. When the area isn't taking a performance hit from having too many people in a small area the layers will turn off. How does that affect 'immersion'?

People complain from all the lag when too many people are in an area, and then they complain when Turbine does something to alleviate the problem... They just can't win can they?

The majority of players probably will never notice the layering.

They have layers in the DDO public areas, and it can sometimes cause confusion when you are making a group and folks don't understand the system. However, DDO makes it easy to change layers.

In Lotro you need to be in a group, and you can only seem to switch to the leader's layer.

This worries me for Chicken play in particular, since layers could affect the ability to "escort" chicken session play characters since you cannot group with them.

Cosmetics and other fluff :o

That and re-experiencing the great old content of the past like Helegrod and Annuminas.

I did a little blog today on this very topic on mylotro :)

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Originally Posted by Golledhel

I've had the Dynamic Layer notification pop up on landscape in Enedwaith.

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The first few days after the beta floodgates opened I was getting the layering notification, but more recently I almost never see it. It's also very likely that they had the limits artificially low for testing purposes. Overall I'm all for dynamic layering. Anything that helps server performance is good especially if there is a very large growth in population with FTP.

I'm looking forward to the new scalable Classic Instances the most. These will be a great way to break away from grinding BG or whatever the newest instance is at the time. They should also be a good way to train and prepare newer or first time Raiders for the latest Raid content.

My first alt is a Captain so I'm excited to try out the new traitline capstone!

I also plan to roll a new character for the launch to level up with and meet some new players offer help for first timers if needed.

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Originally Posted by Sapience

Correct. This is set based on our server performance tuning and can be adjusted as needed. It is not tied to the social panel. It is not always in effect in all areas, even those we turn it on for. If the populations drop below those thresholds in that area, then there will only be one layer, if it goes above it then the number of layers will grow according to need and performance requirements. One might even say...dynamically.

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That means if I log into the game in the morning and stand next to the Michel Delving vault man, then at some points as the server gets more populated towards the evening I will see half the people around me vanish?

I'm looking forward to increased storage, shared storage, and the new cosmetic storage. Will be full of win.

No, that's not the thing I'm looking forward to most. I'm most looking forward to 6s Rallying Cry cooldown.

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Originally Posted by Reillan

I'm looking forward to increased storage, shared storage, and the new cosmetic storage. Will be full of win.

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That, and traveling ports for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Darmokk

That means if I log into the game in the morning and stand next to the Michel Delving vault man, then at some points as the server gets more populated towards the evening I will see half the people around me vanish?

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No it means when the number of people around you meet the max number allowed, the next person to enter that area will be in a new layer and any additional people will be there with them, until that layer also reaches the cap and a third layer is created.

Here's something else to look forward to, we will be able to re-visit session play instances. There will be a book at the Spire of Meeting in Rivendell, "read" whenever you want to experience any of these again.

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Originally Posted by Vysion34

For goodness sake, Sapience just said that it will be dynamic and will layer the areas when the performance is affected. When the area isn't taking a performance hit from having too many people in a small area the layers will turn off. How does that affect 'immersion'?

People complain from all the lag when too many people are in an area, and then they complain when Turbine does something to alleviate the problem... They just can't win can they?

The majority of players probably will never notice the layering.

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I'm not an RPer so immersion doesn't mean much to me but i think what the poster was refering to is if you run into the 21st hall hang out for a little bit craft then your kinmate or buddy wants to meet you there so they port to the 21st but due to activity now there in another layer and you can't meet up. I know sapience (think it was sapience could be wrong) that you could move people to your layer if there in ur fellowship. But i think that may have been what the imersion poster was refering to.

Also odd side note if by some miraculas odds you could end up being the only person in said zone for example if your on a small server or on at off hours and you walk into the 21st hall and your over the limit for that layer do you start the whole new layer by yourself and you ahve the place to yourself till mroe people show? or is somethin in place to make sure theres always at least x number of people per layer and just pull people from layer one into layer 2 if layer 2 isn't populated enough?

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Originally Posted by Sapience

No it means when the number of people around you meet the max number allowed, the next person to enter that area will be in a new layer and any additional people will be there with them, until that layer also reaches the cap and a third layer is created.

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Sounds good. So there's a person starting out alone for a while and then either new people join him, or if enough people leave from the "lower" layer he would eventually be merged with them?

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Originally Posted by Darmokk

Sounds good. So there's a person starting out alone for a while and then either new people join him, or if enough people leave from the "lower" layer he would eventually be merged with them?

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I believe they would have to leave the area and come back, or join a group with a leader in a different layer and warp to it that way. I don't think anyone will ever shift from one layer to another without causing it to happen somehow.

One thing that confused people in DDO is you could see your party members' map dots on radar, but if you were in different layers and didn't realize it, you'd be looking around trying to find them since the map is telling you they are right in front of you.

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Originally Posted by MysterX

I believe they would have to leave the area and come back, or join a group with a leader in a different layer and warp to it that way. I don't think anyone will ever shift from one layer to another without causing it to happen somehow.

One thing that confused people in DDO is you could see your party members' map dots on radar, but if you were in different layers and didn't realize it, you'd be looking around trying to find them since the map is telling you they are right in front of you.

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Any chance to put in code that e.g. keeps kinships in the same layer?

Apart from facing being possibly the only one in Bree, on Landroval of all places, another concern is that I dual-box. Not for fighting and hence not in a fellowship, just for crafting, bagspace and vault shuffling. If kinships were in the same that would save me the trouble of pulling AWOL people into the right layer.

I also meet kinship people quite a bit in-game, and that is with a small kinship.

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Originally Posted by Darmokk

Any chance to put in code that e.g. keeps kinships in the same layer?

Apart from facing being possibly the only one in Bree, on Landroval of all places, another concern is that I dual-box. Not for fighting and hence not in a fellowship, just for crafting, bagspace and vault shuffling. If kinships were in the same that would save me the trouble of pulling AWOL people into the right layer.

I also meet kinship people quite a bit in-game, and that is with a small kinship.

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I thought the fellowship-only method for switching zones seemed a little short-sighted...

In the DDO model, if an area is layered, you could click on the name of the zone on the radar, and it would become a pull-down menu that would let you switch to a different layer.

In the beta I only noticed layering in the starter zones (I avoided Enedwaith because I want that content to be fresh to me when it goes live) but the only method I saw for layer switching was to join a fellowship and warp to the layer the leader was in.

I don't think it will be an issue for multi-boxers, but for kinships who just want to gather to play some 30-man drunken freeze tag in bree-land (really, I want to see that), or players looking to escort a chicken friend through the Midgewater... the layering system may pose some challenges if it ever happens on the landscape.

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Originally Posted by Sapience

One might even say...dynamically.

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I see what you did there.

:D

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Originally Posted by sir-rinthian

Not likely...


From what I've heard, it's only when there are more people than the social panel can display at once that it will start layering. That means you can still have 150-200 people in the 21st hall bogging it down...


Of course, they might create smaller layers for smaller-yet-just-as-crowded areas like the 21st, but the above is how it works in spots like Bree and Thorins hall.

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Does this mean if they have the layers set to 150 in Bree, and there are 151, there will be some lonely guy all by himself in one layer? lol

So basically it's like Guild Wars, how the towns were instanced? But presumably you can't switch channels/instance yourself...

I don't care, since I never talk to anyone in game and vice versa, but at the same time, it does get lonely if you are in the last instance/channel/layer.

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Originally Posted by MysterX

I thought the fellowship-only method for switching zones seemed a little short-sighted...

In the DDO model, if an area is layered, you could click on the name of the zone on the radar, and it would become a pull-down menu that would let you switch to a different layer.


I don't think it will be an issue for multi-boxers, but for kinships who just want to gather to play some 30-man drunken freeze tag in bree-land (really, I want to see that), or players looking to escort a chicken friend through the Midgewater... the layering system may pose some challenges if it ever happens on the landscape.

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Agreed.
If nothing else, give us an option, like in DDO, to switch layers from the radar screen. I might encourage my kin to always "jump to layer 2" when in 21st just as a matter of habit. Chicken runs definitely need this functionality.
Taking all our barterables and turning them into currencies would also help server load a lot.

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Originally Posted by Sapience

Correct. This is set based on our server performance tuning and can be adjusted as needed. It is not tied to the social panel. It is not always in effect in all areas, even those we turn it on for. If the populations drop below those thresholds in that area, then there will only be one layer, if it goes above it then the number of layers will grow according to need and performance requirements. One might even say...dynamically.

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Wait, Wait- Layering is this the samething that Atari does with STO that you can have numerous of instances - one on top of the other and that you might get dump into lvl other than what your team is on.

I play STO and it is one of the distracters from it. Being in an instance and your team is in another. but getting together is a problem. It would be okay if you can change instance like STO but without trying to jump from one instance to another which should be a straight jump.

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Originally Posted by sir-rinthian

So if it says 200+, chances are you've got some layers going.

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An alert icon shows up if layering is on in your area, must like the icon for reduced visibility due to load.

I'm looking forward the the speed, intuitiveness, and flawless transactions of the lotro store.

I'm looking forward to buying the convenience of being able to buy an advantage from the store. And hopefully buying a goat. Are goats in the store? I hope so. I regret not buying the adventurer's pack when it included a goat. I made it all the way to Lv.65, all the way through Moria, and did all of Vol.2 without ever buying a goat.

I'm looking forward to;
- Fresh me..... i mean new blood coming through our servers.
- being able to join instances from anywhere in the game world, and not having to wait for a horn/captain summons.
- making toons on every server and blasting through deeds in the Shire, Ered Luin and Bree just for the TP....:confused: It's going to hurt coming up with names that don't get me rage whispered on Landroval. :rolleyes:
- more shared storage space.
- a separate storage location for all the barter tokens etc that we get now. Oh what? They haven't made one yet? DAMMIT!