Things Seem to be Getting out of Hand

I am as big a fanboy as there is. Been with this game since 2006. I will not "rage quit" nor am I making "demands."

These are my observations on Landroval.

Since 2006 I have, when they are here, had my little grand kids sit with me playing the game...the girl is now 7 and the boy is now 10. Both have asked me to teach them the game (something I will no longer consider).

They have loved watching the game and I have had them chat with my kin and had them "play the game." I have never, ever, ever, had any hesitation having them with me as I played.

This weekend, however, I was afk. My little grandsone went into my office and was watching the game, observing the chat. When I walked in, my emotional, gut instinct was "Oh No! What has he seen!" And to head off criticism, I will turn the game off from now on when they or any other minor children are around.

In the past, this would never have been my emotional response. And this, along with chat today in glff, caused me to post this.

Things are getting out of hand. I know the GMs are doing their best, but at this point, but things are getting out of control in this game.

In the last three days I have seen multiple references to male anatomy, both the vulgar term and the anatomic term.

I have seen references to various sexual acts.

I have seen certain groups attacked.

I have seen the vulgar term for intercourse multiple times.

I have seen a discussion about the origins of the vulgar term for intercourse.

I have seen people asking folks to tone it down being mocked in chat.

I have seen people who use the most vulgar or terms, after being reported, stay in the game and not, apparently, being subject to a sanction.

These are my observations. Feel free to disagree.

Turbine, just my opinion.

It's been worse than usual on Gladden too. Not horrible, but definitely noticeably worse. In the past, whenever I felt the need to report people I would add them to my friends list and almost invariably they would go offline soon after the report was filed and not show up again for a couple days.

Since the release of F2P I've made two reports, and only one was booted offline within an hour of the report and both were on again the next day, and coming real close to the line of decency to boot.

I'm going to continue and hope that this is just a matter of too much work for too few GMs for the time being. I'm hopeful things will get better.

Sorry to hear this is happening on your server too, unfortunately its happening on most since F2P it does bring in the wrong crowd but usually they do not last long and leave when bored.

As for your children well you should know the game carrys a certification of 12 so they are too young to be viewing the product in the first place. Due to the graphical violence and obviously the chat. My 19 year old daughter plays and she gets annoyed by the chat but since she now spends most of her time in Moria or Mirk you do not see that kind of stuff so maybe if you head to a newb town keep the kids away if your in moria etc then the chances of that kind of ooc or chat wont be around.

People, please, PLEASE, get out of these mystical golden days that never existed. I've played on Landy since 2007 and I have seen all sorts of things go down, and don't get me started on global LFF, which is used for anything but. We have always had cretins, we have always had jerks, and we have always had the less desirables making themselves heard. In fact, the only attitude switch I see as a significant change is VIP elitists who think they own the game.

Aolain, with all due respect, I don't think putting children of that age in that kind of environment will ever be a good thing. You are pretty much exposing them to the worst the internet can and will throw at them. ANY MMO will be a bad place for them to be, not just LOTRO. You're being slightly naive here if you don't mind me saying so.

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Originally Posted by Davinius

unfortunately its happening on most since F2P it does bring in the wrong crowd but usually they do not last long and leave when bored.

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Here we go. F2P = evil. No long-term subs ever behaved that way they are all paragons of virtue and they're certainly not behaving that way now with their elitist attitudes. Wow I wish I was a lifetime sub how I would be elevated to sainthood, oh, if only *weeps*.

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Originally Posted by ComradeDomovoi

People, please, PLEASE, get out of these mystical golden days that never existed. I've played on Landy since 2007 and I have seen all sorts of things go down, and don't get me started on global LFF, which is used for anything but. We have always had cretins, we have always had jerks, and we have always had the less desirables making themselves heard. In fact, the only attitude switch I see as a significant change is VIP elitists who think they own the game.

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Yes, you've seen it before. Its not that it's anything new, its that it is now *constant* not a once in a while thing.

Heh, tried to compose a response three times now, and unfortunately, there;s not much I can say that won't sound like a criticism to you, so I'll just say

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(something I will no longer consider)

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Good for you.

...turn off OOC? The occasional reference to anatomy really doesn't offend me all that much. If it's clever. Inane chatter annoys me more than inappropriate chatter.

The point is not the kids...the kids sparked this post--when I was horrified that they were watching this game unsupervised. The point of the kids is that chat in this game has gotten so foul that one must turn the game off for fear that a minor will see what is going on in the game.

From my perspective that is a bad thing....perhaps I am wrong here.

And think about that....think about what it means....that regular people cannot play this game without being assaulted with every vulgarity known to man.

I feel, despite what folks may say, that things have gotten out of hand.

You are free to disagree, however. And If you disagree that is you opinion, just as good as mine.

This is just my observation.

I've been playing on one of the new servers (Crickhollow) and I really haven't noticed much **** going on in the chat channels. One time people were talking about stupid things in glff and I commented on it and they stopped. That's pretty much the most notable instance I've come across....

edit: I didn't actually use a bad word... the censor is is quite sensitive on this board...

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Originally Posted by Aolain

The point of the kids is that chat in this game has gotten so foul that one must turn the game off for fear that a minor will see what is going on in the game.

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The minors shouldn't be playing the game. If you as an adult are that sensitive to crude language I wonder how you ever lasted this long in an MMO at all. Everquest 1 OOC would have probably made you feel compelled to call the police, FBI and possibly the army.

I agree with you that things have gotten WORSE since F2P. But they have never been good. Definetly not good enough that you can leave it open for a 10 year old to observe without having something racy or obscene pop into the chat window. But i do agree that things have gotten worse. I was making a trip through breeland the other day and every other word in the advice channel was an F bomb among other terms. For those that say it never existed, well, I never was THIS bad before.

I agree that the profanity and rude comments are getting out of hand.
An easy solution is the "/ignore feature". Sometimes reporting these people doesn't do any good but this works for me. I haven't maxed it out yet but if I do, I'll jst remove some of the earlier "/ignored" people from my list.

Sacred:

I appreciate your comments.

I do, however, disagree; especially since I have been with the police, the Army, and in Old EQ 1 from launch.

I understand that my opinion is not popular with most folks. I would expect, however, that people would respect my opinion as I respect yours.

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Originally Posted by jedinatt

I've been playing on one of the new servers (Crickhollow) and I really haven't noticed much **** going on in the chat channels. One time people were talking about stupid things in glff and I commented on it and they stopped. That's pretty much the most notable instance I've come across....

edit: I didn't actually use a bad word... the censor is is quite sensitive on this board...

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I've played on Crickhollow too and some of the other new servers and so has my partner. Being F2P I can only have two characters per server so I have to move around. I haven't noticed any of this horrible vulgarity, just people helping me out in the advice channel and some of the 'old timers' waving at me and saying hello as they go about their business.

I really don't know how I seem to miss all this terrible F2P evil and wrongdoing. I shall pay more attention next time.

The first thing I do when I logon to a character is to make sure OOC and Regional are turned off. Both channels get really bad at times on Windfola. The rest of the chat channels seem mostly safe to me so far.

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Originally Posted by Aolain

I would expect, however, that people would respect my opinion as I respect yours.

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I respect your opinion completely I just think you are being a tad unrealistic in what you expect from such an open internet environment. I hope your experience with the game improves but no MMO I have ever played has been any different to the scenario you described in your OP.

I've noticed that it seem to be getting worse and worse and the "F2P Trolls", as I will call them, are ruining the game experience for a lot of people.

I reported someone tonight for using racial slurs and vulgarity, which seems to be starting to run rampant on the servers. They also openly attack role-players calling them wackos and nutjobs, among other things.

I've asked them to stop, mentioning that they can have their accounts banned, and their only response is "Its an F2P account, why do I give a flying <expletive>???". And even if they are banned, they'll just create another F2P account and do it all over again.

The only reason I call these people trolls is because all they're doing is creating accounts to go into the chat channels and stir things up. They aren't even there to play the game.

I would like to formally request that the "Report a Gold Spammer" option be changed to "Report a Chat Violation".

Oh, and I hope Turbine doubled it's GM force.

I don't think OP is trying to say this sort of chat never happened before, but rather that it is happening far too often since F2P.

Someone suggested turning off OOC. Could you maybe make a seperate chat tab that has only the channels you would feel comfortable with and switch to that whenever you have kids around?

Doesn't solve the real problem, but sometimes that can't be solved anything short of reaching through the internet and smacking someone. If only... ;)

I feel this was to be expected. Both, the bad behavior in chat and the OP's position.

OP, you have several options at your disposal;

1) The chat-filter
2) The /ignore feature
3) The /report feature
4) Turning off several chat channels

Coming to the forum does NOT help the situation. Using the tools Turbine gave you, will.

It never seems to amaze me when people try to cram their ideas down everyone else's throats, rather than doing something constructive to alleviate the situation.

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Originally Posted by Lochhi

It never seems to amaze me when people try to cram their ideas down everyone else's throats, rather than doing something constructive to alleviate the situation.

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Perhaps there are people that would like to remain in the aforementioned chat channels?

I have no problem with the occasional goings-on that happen in the chat channels, but when people are there for the sole purpose of "stirring the pot", if you will, then something needs to be done about it.

And the people that the OP mentioned are CLEARLY violating the Terms of Service, so something should be done about them.

I agree that something should definitely be done about folks who violate the coc and tos. That said I haven't yet had any problems on Gladden.

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Originally Posted by Ella

That said I haven't yet had any problems on Gladden.

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Funny ain't it that we don't see these things that are apparently rife? I strongly suspect isolated incidents inspired the OP.

I dont think so.

I could post chat from tonight, but I am sure I would get busted for violating the ToS for copy/pasting what they said... :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Lochhi

Coming to the forum does NOT help the situation.

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I must respectfully disagree. This forum is where we discuss matters important to us, such as our community. And I consider the F2P'ers who are truly exploring and falling in love with the game to be as much a part of the community as the old-timers. It might be that we all together can come up with a satisfactory and effective solution.

:)

I see more nasty in chats in the lowbie areas than in the higher level areas, that's for sure.

To the OP, I'm sorry your kids witnessed this, but I have to agree with some of the other posters...they shouldn't be playing or reading the chat in this game in the first place. Lesson learned, now you can handle it any way you wish.

If you want to continue to let them play, I suggest turning off all chat channels. It's what I did when I let my boys play WoW with me. And they had to group with me as well as it kept them out of trouble and we got some quality time together.

I have watched our lowbie chats slowly de-evolve over the course of the last year and a half and I'm disappointed but not surprised. It's a huge reason why I won't let my kids play this game now even though I could turn off the chats here too. Really they need to focus on school and their own extra-curricular activities and not spend their spare time glued to the computer.

Good luck, OP, I know raising kids is very tough in today's society.

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Originally Posted by Lochhi

I feel this was to be expected. Both, the bad behavior in chat and the OP's position.

OP, you have several options at your disposal;

1) The chat-filter
2) The /ignore feature
3) The /report feature
4) Turning off several chat channels

Coming to the forum does NOT help the situation. Using the tools Turbine gave you, will.

It never seems to amaze me when people try to cram their ideas down everyone else's throats, rather than doing something constructive to alleviate the situation.

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Despite the fact that I don't agree with the OP that things are particularly worse than they've been at any other time, let the guy have his opinion! Your post comes across as very condescending.

I respect your concern for the chat...but...just turn off the chats (save for kin) when playing. I have plenty of nieces and nephews in that age range, Ive let them play, problems dont come up.

Sometimes...I just feel people are much too sensitive about language/violence in general.

I do understand that I am in the minority here.

Still, I think it is ok for folks who hold an opinion that most people disagree with to voice their opinion.

I am not saying that the majority is wrong; I am simply giving voice to my opinion.

Seems fair enough to me.

From my perspective, think of what it is like to be a new person coming into the game. To see the various commentary, to see attacks on ethinc groups, etc. I admit that I am, perhaps, too sensitive.

What would a new person say?

Many, if not most, would agree with the majority and shrug their shoulders. I am not saying they would be wrong. Some, however, would be horrified.

Again, this is just my opinion and I know that most completely disagree with me--and that is OK.

Things are getting out of hand, because Sauron is winning - and no doubt ingame chat and these forums constitute a huge part of his subtle plans to spread fear and corruption among the peoples of the West....

I don't expect it to get better until the Black Captain of the Nazgul, Mr. "Witch-King" himself, gets skewered by a woman and a hobbit on the Pelennor Fields, and the tide begins to turn. Then, perhaps, the purveyors of gloom and the merchants of foul words overrunning this game will look for deep holes to hide themselves - in the Ered Lithui, perhaps, in cracks where the sun don't shine....

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Originally Posted by Lara69690

Really they need to focus on school and their own extra-curricular activities and not spend their spare time glued to the computer.

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Yes to this.

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Originally Posted by Aolain

to see attacks on ethinc groups, etc. I admit that I am, perhaps, too sensitive.
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Everyone's sensitive to that. If there's one thing the GM's will squash flat it's that. I haven't seen it at all but if you have a report will work.

It is getting worse than its been in quite a while. Sadly, there are those who feel glorified in extolling their knowledge of vulgar and demeaning terms and behavior. They feel that this in someway gains them respect, or they just don't care. Either way, it is the Community's responsibility to report them when necessary, as much as possible.
There are those who will defend the actions of these disreputable trolls, using attack tactics, shame, and ridicule. Ignore them, as they are just trying to stir the cauldron. Do what your conscience tells you is right. Then add that person to your ignore list, and enjoy the game. As for children playing the game, that is a call that each parent must make for their own. Some children can be more mature than some adults. Some look to adults to model their own behavior. Some adults can be more childish than children. The internet allows anonymity, but nowhere does it say that it is an automatic license to act stupid. One of the drawbacks of F2P accounts IS the ability to start over, but it is also a plus. After all, perhaps a person might learn a lesson in etiquette, and behave better. Stand fast, all decent and noble players. Do not sink to the level of those who act out, but stick to your principles, and do your duty to the community. Be patient as much as possible, because Turbine has woefully unprepared themselves for these consequences that have occurred since F2P started. Remember this though, a Troll is not limited to just being a new player, because sadly we have older, current, and returning players who seem to have forgotten how to act in public.

It's sadly a bad problem in most mmorpg, I frankly rarely have /trade active in WoW(unless I am looking for a group), there is too much immature/racist/homophobic and simple offensive chat.

My best advice to you is: let you grand children play(would be a shame to cut them off), just turn chat channels off while they are around

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Originally Posted by Delmore

I was making a trip through breeland the other day and every other word in the advice channel was an F bomb among other terms. For those that say it never existed, well, I never was THIS bad before.

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Ah, so you're the guilty party then!

Your sentence is twofold. First, you must spend fifty hours of community service in the Barrens chat. After that is done, you must watch a Uwe Boll movie.

Normally I'm a fierce and liberal advocate of free speech, but today's Landroval GLFF hit new all-time lows (and I've played A LOT at all hours over three years). I broke down and doubled my normally slim list of 10 or 15 ignored consistent GLFF spammers. I simply assumed at one point that SURELY a GM was going to ban several people any moment now during the juvenile sex physiology spew.

After being there, I just wanted to chime in and agree with the OP. Maybe it's just normal language for kids these days, but it's a fact that it's pathetic and unfortunate in comparison to the past.

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Originally Posted by Elderban

Perhaps there are people that would like to remain in the aforementioned chat channels?

I have no problem with the occasional goings-on that happen in the chat channels, but when people are there for the sole purpose of "stirring the pot", if you will, then something needs to be done about it.

And the people that the OP mentioned are CLEARLY violating the Terms of Service, so something should be done about them.

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So, report them. Situation solved and this thread is totally unnecessary.

oh yes, Im definitely not advocating acting the way Ive seen the chats be. Its sad to think of how different people's experience first coming in to the game may be than the quiet friendly atmosphere I first saw. I will admit though that I havnt been privy to as many crazy discussions as some people seem to have witnessed. Anything like race attacks or violations of TOS should definitely be squashed immediately. However, I dont think they have the man power to quite accomplish that :(

I agree, things on Silverlode have went pear shaped since F2P. From general chat to a new person invited to our kinship who then stole everything they could from the guild vaults the game is losing the wonderful community it has always had.

The game is rated Teen. They are too young to play either way.

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Originally Posted by tkdyoo

I respect your concern for the chat...but...just turn off the chats (save for kin) when playing. I have plenty of nieces and nephews in that age range, Ive let them play, problems dont come up.

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^^^^This.

I don't care if the trash talking has reached crackhouse proportions, leaving any chat channels on with kids under 12 around is just bad parenting, imho. (Yeah, I went there.)

Thal

I think that the OP is a liar and provocator. I rarely see any chat going on at all, not to mention mentioned violations.

And for "old-timers" here: don;t forget that you've been scarying away new people for all those years with your attitude, had brought the game on its knees and now brazen enough to continue your ridiculous behaviour. Ridiculous and unwise.

Honestly not seeing the big deal here, this is common in most MMO's anymore. Why if your this sensitive to just chat would you let your kids play a online game? This is honestly just as common on any online activity(Xbox 360, PS3, any PC game whether it be FPS/MMO/RTS). My son is almost 4, and anytime he is around I normally just mute people(when playing on my 360) and one of these days when he is old enough to play these games(he has taken much interest in watching me play MMO's, but he cannot read yet so no harm done) I will just turn off said chat channels, not the end of the world.

But in all honesty I agree with people above, free speech is part of America and most online gaming.. if this bothers you don't play, or turn off chat. Honestly though your kids/grandkids(whatever) will at some point witness this whether watching movies, playing games, or just going to school.

Honestly? Elendilmir's OOCs have been really clean. And I've been hanging out in the newbie areas very frequently. Maybe our horrible GLFF has desensitized me. But, then again, other than a couple people, it hasn't been too bad in a while. Strange.

Our server's long and complicated name scared off the morons, perhaps. XD

Agreed with other posters on kids around game with OOC going rampart. I just go to my IM tab when I let the little one play (she likes riding the horse). Shouldn't have happened in the first place, because there was always a chance before of chat becoming bad.

Hire more GMs with your new monies, Turbine. XD

Honestly, the only real difference is the sort of stuff that used to be in GLFF is now in public channels. Because the new people don't know about GLFF.

Before, you could just avoid it by not ever using GLFF (I tried it once and left immediately). Now it's admittedly not so easy. But the alternative was literally no one ever talking in public. At least on Landroval, which is like one of those gated communities or private clubs, they don't want to do with you unless you are a member.

Now you do have to put up with some annoyances, but a liberal use of the ignore function takes care of that. On the plus side, it's just great to see people talking and in many cases, helping each other. That is something that had sadly been missing from this game for years.

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Originally Posted by Lochhi

So, report them. Situation solved and this thread is totally unnecessary.

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Oh yes, you are correct. How thoughtless of me. Heaven forbid someone express their concerns on the forums here.

The only problem is, is that I reported someone for using vulgar, racist langauge and intentionally using characters that would circumvent the in-game censor and they were still online even after the ticket was closed. I would have made my own thread regarding the matter, but I saw this one, so I posted my concerns here.

If you don't like the thread, don't read it or respond to it. Your responses are totally unnecessary.

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Originally Posted by Elderban

Oh yes, you are correct. How thoughtless of me. Heaven forbid someone express their concerns on the forums here.

The only problem is, is that I reported someone for using vulgar, racist langauge and intentionally using characters that would circumvent the in-game censor and they were still online even after the ticket was closed. I would have made my own thread regarding the matter, but I saw this one, so I posted my concerns here.

If you don't like the thread, don't read it or respond to it. Your responses are totally unnecessary.

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GM's have been known to close tickets before dealing punishment(at least in Turbine's case), but his opinion is just as important as yours and the OP's if paying for a sub..

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Originally Posted by KelronVladseal

But in all honesty I agree with people above, free speech is part of America and most online gaming.

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I see this claim made repeatedly. Free speech rights apply to Government action. They do not apply to business or private individuals. Turbine can, perfectly legally, ban any sort of language it likes on it's own servers and no one can touch them for it legally.

I wish people would get over this idea that "freedom of speech" is an absolute, any more--as it has been said--that "freedom of the press doesn't mean YOUR freedom of MY press."

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

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Originally Posted by Aolain

I am as big a fanboy as there is. Been with this game since 2006. I will not "rage quit" nor am I making "demands."

These are my observations on Landroval.

Since 2006 I have, when they are here, had my little grand kids sit with me playing the game...the girl is now 7 and the boy is now 10. Both have asked me to teach them the game (something I will no longer consider).

They have loved watching the game and I have had them chat with my kin and had them "play the game." I have never, ever, ever, had any hesitation having them with me as I played.

This weekend, however, I was afk. My little grandsone went into my office and was watching the game, observing the chat. When I walked in, my emotional, gut instinct was "Oh No! What has he seen!" And to head off criticism, I will turn the game off from now on when they or any other minor children are around.

In the past, this would never have been my emotional response. And this, along with chat today in glff, caused me to post this.

Things are getting out of hand. I know the GMs are doing their best, but at this point, but things are getting out of control in this game.

In the last three days I have seen multiple references to male anatomy, both the vulgar term and the anatomic term.

I have seen references to various sexual acts.

I have seen certain groups attacked.

I have seen the vulgar term for intercourse multiple times.

I have seen a discussion about the origins of the vulgar term for intercourse.

I have seen people asking folks to tone it down being mocked in chat.

I have seen people who use the most vulgar or terms, after being reported, stay in the game and not, apparently, being subject to a sanction.

These are my observations. Feel free to disagree.

Turbine, just my opinion.

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Profanity filter. Turn it on. Problem solved.

OP: You may want to leave the happy little bubble that you live in. Welcome to the world!

Or did you think that your children won't ever hear a vulgar expression in their life until they are 16 and are 'able to handle it' (and become underage pregnant or father)?

I have to say I've been ignoring the public chat channels for the most part, just tuning it out as I play or record videos. Unfortunately, While encoding one of my most recent videos, I noticed the chat box visible during a certain scene (I was doing an episode on the Auction House, so I didn't hide the UI like usual), and at that point I made an effort to make sure there was nothing nasty displayed therein.

Shouldn't have to do that, and it bothered me that I had to react that way.

Sad times.

Maybe I can give you guys a different view point to the game. I played beta and then three months before stopping and then started up again right before F2P.


In the beginning the game was pack full and chat had tons of nasty talk which over the three months I played died down a bit.

When I came back before F2P many of the servers were kind of empty and had small communities. Still was some nasty chat.....Some folk just have to play Tooks and we all know how odd those hobbits are.

When it went F2P it felt to me just like it did when the game was released. New zones are packed and some players are just not nice.


My advice for rude and nasty people is report, report and report. Don't go overboard but the really nasty players need to be banned. The problem is trolls can get back in game by creating another F2P account but they will get tired of losing characters and redoing the starter areas.

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Originally Posted by ComradeDomovoi

People, please, PLEASE, get out of these mystical golden days that never existed. I've played on Landy since 2007 and I have seen all sorts of things go down, and don't get me started on global LFF, which is used for anything but. We have always had cretins, we have always had jerks, and we have always had the less desirables making themselves heard. In fact, the only attitude switch I see as a significant change is VIP elitists who think they own the game.

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Originally Posted by SacredChandelier

Here we go. F2P = evil. No long-term subs ever behaved that way they are all paragons of virtue and they're certainly not behaving that way now with their elitist attitudes. Wow I wish I was a lifetime sub how I would be elevated to sainthood, oh, if only *weeps*.

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I can only make observations based upon my own personal experience. I have two accounts, no family and I have spent a lot of time in LOTRO over the past couple of years. During that time I never encountered any kind of bad behavior in chat. Yes, some people used Advice for long conversations that better belonged in OOC, but they were about things like television shows and not anything bad. Granted, I don't PvP and I've never used the global LFF channel so perhaps I wasn't exposed to all the variety of chat the game contained. Be that as it may, I never once felt the need to report anyone or add anyone to my ignore list. Does that qualify the past two and a half years as "mystical golden days"? Compared to what I've seen since F2P launched, I guess they do. People can claim those days didn't exist all they want, but they did for me.

I still don't PvP and I still don't use the global LFF channel, but I have to put people on ignore almost every time I log in and that's just for profanity. There's far too much general bad behavior to try to use ignore for it. It's just too overwhelming. Just last night, as an example, someone on Crickhollow asked what traits he should use for a tank. This new player was told that if he couldn't figure it out he should go play a different game. I have never in over two years seen someone's question responded to in that manner. I, politely, called the person out for being rude and tried to offer some advice to the original question. And a couple of other players responded in kind. But that's the kind of chat behavior that's become the norm in the starter areas and before F2P that was not the case. So yes, the game has most definitely changed. I can no longer in good conscious tell friends that LOTRO has an outstanding community and I used to be able to without hesitation.

I don't think any of us are claiming that everyone who's come in via F2P is a bad apple. In fact I grouped up with one player who's come over from SWG and has bought a subscription after starting as F2P who I feel will be an outstanding addition to the community. But the bad apples that are swarming the game are leaving a bad taste in the mouths of everyone around them. In other words, it doesn't take very much oil poured into a tub of water to pollute the entire thing.

I expect players have experienced varying degrees of this behavior depending on their server, the hours they play and how often they are in the starter zones. I've been playing on Crickhollow, where everyone started at first level, and I've started four characters there, levels 37, 23, 22 and 15. So I've basically been at ground zero every since F2P was released. If I'd been playing my level 65 characters on my home server I expect I wouldn't be nearly as discouraged by the changes to the general chat channels as I currently am. There are times when the chat channels are calm and what chat does pop up is friendly and helpful. But those times have been in the minority when I've been playing. Hopefully they'll eventually become the majority.

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Originally Posted by trancejeremy

Honestly, the only real difference is the sort of stuff that used to be in GLFF is now in public channels. Because the new people don't know about GLFF.

Before, you could just avoid it by not ever using GLFF (I tried it once and left immediately). Now it's admittedly not so easy. But the alternative was literally no one ever talking in public. At least on Landroval, which is like one of those gated communities or private clubs, they don't want to do with you unless you are a member.

Now you do have to put up with some annoyances, but a liberal use of the ignore function takes care of that. On the plus side, it's just great to see people talking and in many cases, helping each other. That is something that had sadly been missing from this game for years.

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Trying to ignore them isn't going to solve the problem and long term makes it worst. If you let them be nasty in the chat channels then it will spread to most of the new players who will see this garbage and think thats the way it is here.

If you want a good community you have to be involved with it. That means setting good examples and reporting people that break the rules. Ignoring these folk just lets them set the bad example to the other new players joining in.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shadowmoon

My advice for rude and nasty people is report, report and report. Don't go overboard but the really nasty players need to be banned. The problem is trolls can get back in game by creating another F2P account but they will get tired of losing characters and redoing the starter areas.

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Quoted For Truth.

Like I said before, I tend to tune out the chat channels when I'm in-game. But if I were to notice someone being particularly hostile or rude in chat, I'd send in a report about it, after asking them to play nice with others. I don't care if they are new players or old, there is simply no call for that sort of behavior in this game.

Period.

End of story.

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Originally Posted by ComradeDomovoi

VIP elitists who think they own the game.

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I bought it, I do own it.

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Originally Posted by SacredChandelier

I really don't know how I seem to miss all this terrible F2P evil and wrongdoing. I shall pay more attention next time.

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I've turned my Regional, Advice, & OOC channels back on, on Imladris. I'm not seeing any of this terri-bad F2P evil, either.

In fact, I actually thought it was worse 2 years ago, when I was a subscriber. I remember a convo in Breeland that got so bad a GM showed up to tell people to use /report, instead of responding & arguing with the foul-mouthed cretin. I remember the constant Gold Spam in Bree -- I haven't seen even one since coming back. I think things are much better now, than they were back then.

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Originally Posted by Uwela

I think that the OP is a liar and provocator. I rarely see any chat going on at all, not to mention mentioned violations.

And for "old-timers" here: don;t forget that you've been scarying away new people for all those years with your attitude, had brought the game on its knees and now brazen enough to continue your ridiculous behaviour. Ridiculous and unwise.

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I'm on Landroval and Windfola leveling new characters to earn some TP for costumes. I see the chat the OP is talking about every single day. Just because YOU think it isn't happening won't change the fact that it is.

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Originally Posted by Shadowmoon

Trying to ignore them isn't going to solve the problem and long term makes it worst.

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Ignoring profane vile-spewers solves the problem FOR ME quite nicely.

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Originally Posted by KelronVladseal

But in all honesty I agree with people above, free speech is part of America and most online gaming.. if this bothers you don't play, or turn off chat. Honestly though your kids/grandkids(whatever) will at some point witness this whether watching movies, playing games, or just going to school.

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Free Speech has it's limits also. Did you know for example that at Disney World, if you're standing in the lobby of one of our resorts cursing and we ask you to stop, that we can (and frequently do) have Orange County come out and arrest you? Nothing you can do about it either, private property. Ten years ago in Orlando a man was barking out profanities at a public boat dock because he was having trouble launching his boat. A family near by called Orange County and he was arrested, tried, and convicted. The general US population seems to be very uneducated in terms of "Free Speech". Free speech didn't protect the person who got on the intercom at Walmart and asked all ______ to leave the building.

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Originally Posted by Adroc

I'm on Landroval and Windfola leveling new characters to earn some TP for costumes. I see the chat the OP is talking about every single day. Just because YOU think it isn't happening won't change the fact that it is.

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In which channels on Windy is this taking place? I normally have glff open and while I see the PvmP'ers needling each other, I rarely see it getting excessive or indeed anywhere near the levels being described here. Am I blind?

;)

to the OP,


simply don't allow the kids near the comp when you decide to play. i know the vulgarity on brandywine is really bad. its always been bad. its not worse either since ftp. its the same. i have seen some really good players terrorized in the game, and nothing was done about it either. as a matter of fact, some of what they did to some players was illegal. it was reported and nothing was done about it. there truly needs to be more control over the chat from gm's. more serious enforcement of the agreement people sign when they join. the internet is not a place for anyone under the age of teen years. one thing you can do is set parental controls if you feel you must. if not, simply play when the kids are not around. report any behavior that is threatening, vulgar (against the agreement) stalking, etc. don't hesitate to make multiple reports. the game is exactly that, a game. and if people are not respecting the agreement then they should not be on the game because they ruin for good folk who simply like to play and have fun. as i said in a different post, that turbine should ban players for good who keep violating the user agreement by banning them via their mac address. that way, they cannot re sign up, at least on that computer. while it may not solve the problem for good, at least it will help weed the undesirables out. your post title, things are getting out of hand is 100% correct.
but sadly, turbine is huge, and they would have to employ people 24/7 to really crack down on the abuse. maybe they should. i think they can afford it. it'd make for a better gaming experience for everyone.

IMO, it doesn't matter what's going on in GLFF or OOC or Regional, the risk that some hornball wants to bone hot female toons is there. To me, it's hilarious (see other thread) to my fiance, the ignore list isn't big enough, and it happens enough that she and I joke about it.

I don't consider any current MMO to be kid friendly, not b/c of the content, but b/c of other people.

My fiance and I both play, and we've both agreed that LOTRO will be for when after the kiddos go to bed. Maybe one of us will play while the other takes them out to play, or whatever (we plan on several, as well as adopting) but the kids won't be in front of the PC in either case.



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@ OP: the chat is obnoxious at times, and certainly has increased. Especially in Bree/Shire/Ered Luin. I obviously don't have it turned off. I have a potty mouth myself, but that's mostly in voice chat - I don't pepper that into chat channels. Free speech is what it is; I want to be able to say what I want in appropriate channels. I wouldn't mind a policy that enforce certain channels more strongly, though, like /advice. But I don't think Turbine will put the resources into monitoring chat channels. The best you'll get is account bans after the fact, which is too late for the kiddos. What has been seen cannot be unseen.

IMO - If it was going to be addressed, it would have been addressed as part of the launch. The cat is out of the bag, Turbine won't hire more GMs just to deal w/ chat issues unless there's massive support for it (which doesn't appear to be the case) - just consider this a battle lost and move on.

But I'd recommend just blanking the monitor if you AFK, and turning those chats off.



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@ Turbine: you knew this was coming - can ya increase the /ignore slots? That probably still isn't enough, but it's a start.

I am new to this game, however I am not new to MMORPG's with similar situations.
I'm going to be as blunt as possible. From experience, when others try to limit what one can and can't say, things get very hostile between EVERYONE throughout the game. The last MMORPG I played was Kingdom Heroes, and since the GSs/GMs "stepped up their game" so to speak, the playerbase has been cut down at least in half due to the restriction of their first amendment rights. However, there is a simple solution, as I know there are those of you who do not wish to listen to what some may call offensive language.
I think it could very simply be sorted out like this: A couple servers for people who want to "keep it clean" and a couple servers for those who wish to talk about whatever they please. It would nip the controversy in the bud and nobody would feel offended, controlled or put down in any way.
My personal opinion is that there are MUCH worse things in this world happening right now than someone swearing on a game's chatbox, and anyone who claims to be an "experienced and mature adult" will have to deal with it, just as if they would a co-worker. There will always be things that get on someone's nerves sure, I choose to look past it. I've been through a lot in life, had lives pass away before me, so I guess this is why I think that it is a very minimal and trivial thing to be upset about. It's really a mixed bowl of fruit discussion here though, because everyone will be offended by something, and it's inevitable that they will be forced to put up with it someday. Tolerance is a virtue in my opinion, and I think if more people were tolerant, they would also be a bit happier. That's my 2 cents, take it or leave it. No flames though please, I still want to keep it friendly. :)

Aolain, I agree with you completely. I have no idea why people deny that it wasn't always like this....Anyway, I was in Bree-land OOC the day before yesterday...and oh my goodness, it was different. People talked about adult stuff, I remarked that I can't let my kids watch me play anymore (I don't have kids though) and they told me to turn off OOC, I made them read the EULA, I tried to change topics and the result - nothing. About two weeks ago people were posting male private parts with the keys. In moria the chat is the same as it was before september 10th. That's because they haven't reached moria, or they haven't bought it. People please open your eyes!! And they aren't a few here and there...there are hordes of them, hordes of swarming beasts who cuss and break the rules repeatedly without a GM warning them. We shouldn't have to turn off our chat channels, this is an online game. We should we able to converse with people, if we turn the chat off we might as well go and play mario.

For those who haven't noticed anything different: Please go to Bree-land and watch the OOC channel, I rarely pass through, unless its on my low lvl alt, and when I do the chat is nearly always bad. I don't know if its different it other servers, I'm in Brandywine.

This is very easily remedied. Shut off all channels except Say, Tell, Kinship, and Fellowship. Problem solved.

I have never had Regional, OOC, or LFF turned on from day 1.

Not that I am condoning the nasty language or the influx of many morons into the game, but why gripe about the issue when you can solve it by removing it from the chat window.

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Originally Posted by Glavian

This is very easily remedied. Shut off all channels except Say, Tell, Kinship, and Fellowship. Problem solved.

I have never had Regional, OOC, or LFF turned on from day 1.

Not that I am condoning the nasty language or the influx of many morons into the game, but why gripe about the issue when you can solve it by removing it from the chat window.

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Maybe channel selection, so you can choose what channel you see? Or an ability to just minimize chat altogether, I was trying to do that earlier. :P I was seeing stuff about old people's genitals and that was a bit too much for me to want to think about. XD

I have been known to spew obscenities on occasion. I have been known to frown at the goings-on with some f2p noobs. I have been a virtual agressor on occasion.

Yet I always liked leveling noob toons in the Shire because it seemed quieter... more peaceful. Well until the influx of non paying bodies.

I've noticed that ND isnt much like that yet. I've noticed that Moria is more of a ghost town in recent days. I also noticed the level 2 dwarf in Thorin's Gate that came up to my level 4 elf trying to clear a tutorial quest on Crickhollow ask me, "would you like some dwarf ****" Of course my first response, which I kept to myself was, why would I want something that small.

The other reason I leveled in the Shire was because most of the stuff we see now, VIP and F2P, only happened if you frequented Bree-town. The only recourse is to put them on ignore or turn off the channel, which I make sure to inform the 'offender' before I do it. I have noticed that there are a lot of these people who would actually like to chat and just need to understand what the boundaries their audience is.

Of course I still have my alias:
/alias add ;name /lol can't believe a mother would hate her child so much that she would name it ;target.

now that is an elitest VIP.

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Originally Posted by Celedir

Maybe channel selection, so you can choose what channel you see? Or an ability to just minimize chat altogether, I was trying to do that earlier. :P I was seeing stuff about old people's genitals and that was a bit too much for me to want to think about. XD

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You can choose what channels you see. Right click on the tab in the chat window and select or deselect the ones you want or don't want to see. very easy.

Man, don't you just love our American culture?

You're worried about your young grandson/granddaughter hearing a reference to "male genitalia" yet you wanted to let them play this game.

"Honey, go slice that other human up for me, I want my farm tools back, just remember its ok to cut him up with a sword, hes a bad guy." "What, someone referenced male anatomy, MALE ANATOMY?" "OUTRAGE. TURBINE FIX THIS!"

Don't get me wrong, the chat is crude, but you're coming at it from a bad grandparent angle. The game is rated 13+ for that very reason. Turbine can't do everything, you have a filter and you can leave the channels off(I have all of them except LFF off.)

Same here on Gladden as well. In the past I enjoyed having GLFF open. It never really got out of hand. I think it was yesterday but a bunch of people on gladden were talking about another player and i will leave it at that. I am with the OP in that i will not rage quit but I do think the ban hammer needs to be swung around. Make an example out of a few and the rest should fall in line lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Glavian

You can choose what channels you see. Right click on the tab in the chat window and select or deselect the ones you want or don't want to see. very easy.

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Really? Thanks for telling me.
I asked earlier and someone said it wasn't possible. :/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Glavian

You can choose what channels you see. Right click on the tab in the chat window and select or deselect the ones you want or don't want to see. very easy.

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exactly...
my kids love to watch me play, but i only have kinship chat enabled.
and as an officer of my kin, i can somewhat control the tone of chat there ;)

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Originally Posted by orrie206

Make an example out of a few and the rest should fall in line lol

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Making "examples" of people only works if the rest of the community can see the example being made, but due to privacy concerns, I don't know of a single MMO company that publicly divulges what discipline it exacts on offending players.

Thus, no "example" can be made, so there's nothing to make the rest fall in line.

Banning offenders won't help anyway. People who talk this way, do so for the attention. If you keep arguing with them, they will keep going. If you ban them, they will come back and do it all over again. If you feed the troll, they will keep coming back for more.

Just ignore them or shut off the channel, they will eventually realize they are fools, and will get bored and leave.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Glavian

Just ignore them or shut off the channel, they will eventually realize they are fools, and will get bored and leave.

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I have not found that to be the case (the realization that they are the fool almost never occurs). There needs to be a better solution than just let them act badly until they tire of it.

Im not going to touch the other issues mentioned in regards to the general state of chat and game community.

However, regarding children playing... make rules. Lots of them. Set up boundaries. The game is beautiful and a lot of fun for them, if you control it.

"GAMEPLAY MAY CHANGE DURING ONLINE PLAY." But we can control the experience for our kids.

A conversation with my 11 year old neice:

"Can I try the game out?"

step 1) Call her Dad and ask.
step 2) Ok heres the rules:
-I will turn off chat channels of my choosing. /glff /advice /regional /trade /ooc
-You may only play when I or your parents are playing.
-You will only group with me or your parents, or people we choose to invite(trusted friends/kinmates/others who have shown themselves to be acceptable to our standards.)
etc etc
Make it absolutely clear that there is no bending of these rules, or playing privileges are lost. (and DONT give them the account password)

This realization of middle earth is beautiful, and can be neat for kids I think;
but stay on top of it, wayyy on top of it. Its your right, and your responsibility.

Remember this is the :eek:internet:eek:, all kinds of dangerous stuff here for kids, not just profanity. An MMO isnt going to totally shield them from whats out there.

But we can.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Celedir

... there is a simple solution, as I know there are those of you who do not wish to listen to what some may call offensive language.
I think it could very simply be sorted out like this: A couple servers for people who want to "keep it clean" and a couple servers for those who wish to talk about whatever they please. It would nip the controversy in the bud and nobody would feel offended, controlled or put down in any way.

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I know this sounds like a good idea on the surface, but believe me when I say, this plan would bring out the foul language speakers and peace disrupters in droves .. to the wrong server. They'lll do it for spite and because it feels good to them to put others down. Same reason that they'll ramp it up in chat if you threaten to report them.

The solutions for this situation are not perfect, but they are in place: /ignore, report but don't tell them you are, try reasoning with them if you can do so without getting dragged into an argument. I've had a fair amount of success getting chat "toned down" just by being civil and asking politely. Doesn't always work, but I'm a fast draw with /ignore.

To the OP, I feel your pain, I dislike what I'm seeing also, but the game is a microcosm of life and the players are people afterall. I agree that's it's a beautiful game to let the kids watch, but since the kids are under age for the game, you limit the environment that they see to things that are "age appropriate", yes? You can do the same with chat - by creating a chat tab that only shows the NPC dialog, and activating that whenever they are watching. I don't have access the game atm, but I believe it would be /say that you'd want enabled. You could add in /k and /f too, if those are channels that are acceptable to you.

Here's something I did with my own kids (not in LOTRO, my kids were grown by the time I started playing) although you may not agree with it .. I used the bad behavior (and inappropriate names) as a learning opportunity. Once they were old enough to play or watch me play, we'd talk about the different things people said, and the way they behaved ('good' and 'bad'), and the kids, on their own, came to some great conclusions about human nature and tolerance - including their own. I'm not so naive as to think my kids aren't going to hear those words or see those behaviors as they move through life, and it pleases me to know that they were equipped to handle them whenever and wherever they were.

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Originally Posted by Bradd

There needs to be a better solution than just let them act badly until they tire of it.

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I think Turbine can do two things: hire more GMs, & give us unlimited Ignore lists. The former is almost certainly not going to happen; the latter is something I dearly wish would be a standard practice in every MMO, because after all, human idiocy is unlimited, so my Iggy list should be too.

Beyond that, tho, it's incumbent upon each individual player to "clean up" the chat channels for themselves. Putting people on Ignore works to prevent that particular person from ever offending you again, & since you've no control over whether or not other people are offended, it's the best method of "protecting" oneself from nasty conversations.

Turning off chat channels is an imperfect situation, but for those who truly think the channels are nothing but virtual cesspools, there's really not much else that can be done.

The solution is that when your grandkids are around or if they want to play, turn off OOC, LFF, and sign out of GLFF. TRADE and ADVICE aren't used as much but you can turn those off too if you want. This doesn't seem like a big problem to me. Your grandkids are going to hear worse language at school.

I agree that this is a beautiful game that can be shared with children as long as we have a very cautionary attitude going in. It does sadden me a bit to think of the wonderful world of Middle Earth being tainted by things that I consider inappropriate; but , alas, it is the days of growing shadow.

My solution has been to 1)attempt to set a better example in all chat, 2)encourage better behavior by those who I feel may be crossing the line by a friendly comment, 3)use of the /ignore when necessary, 4)dropping out of a chat channel when it seems destined to spiral ever out of hand.
I really dislike when I have to drop out of chat channels for the mere fact that there will be those individuals who are earnestly seeking answers and help that may now become discouraged by the sometimes frustrating answers and responses that can revolve on the chat channels. And especially at the thought that they may be youngsters who merely need simple guidance. But, ultimately, I have to choose not to let others ruin the experience for myself.
Playing on Crickhollow since f2p launch, I must say that it has not been a daily rampant problem; but there are moments when the decline starts that it really goes fast. I am most encouraged by those who respond out of kindness and do all they can to navigate around those whose only purpose at times seems to be to disrupt the enjoyment of others.
I hold out hope that those who come only to frustrate will find themselves frustrated on move on.

Personally I havent seen any bad language, but then i play with all those channels filtered off and only have kin,say,emote fellowship and a few private channels and its bliss!
Thankfully we have the tools to filter, unlike real life where we have to put up with bad manners, rude behaviour and language that would make a truckie blush.
So again as many others have said, use your filters, use the profanity filter (although i dont Darn is not swearing in my book nor is hell...but then you yanks have some strange ideas on whats bad language and what isnt :) ) and ignore those channels. The game experience is all so much better for it!

I believe there is a certain % of the population that gets enjoyment from not just playing the game, or even playing the game at all, but from harrassing, upsetting, and stirring up people.

Those people exist. They may or may not actually "play" the game, but they DO get enjoyment from doing things that ruin others enjoyment.

The two questions that I see come out of that truth are these:

1> What responsibility does Turbine have to prevent, hinder, dissuade, ban, etc those people from participating in their game?

2> Is a greater % (not just greater #) of the player base these types of people with the inclusion of F2P? Note: of course the number is greater...more players = more of that %. But is the % greater IMHO is the key question.

IMHO?

1> A LOT, with respect to their game mechanics. A LOT, with respect to hate/racist/homophobic type speech. A LOT, with respect to targeted harrassment and griefing. A LITTLE, with respect to the "bad words" (this is what the filter is for).

2> Yes. I believe there is a MUCH higher % of these people currently in the game. Furthermore I believe there is a "critical mass" where there's enough of those players to actually make the game not enjoyable to others.

My solution?

Turbine needs to make sure their game ENCOURAGES positive and supportive play, and DISCOURAGES those who want to just stir up trouble. I'm a much larger fan of implementing controls, devices and mechanics that keep these people from being trouble in the first place rather than throwing an army of GMs at the game to police the after effects. But that's difficult to do AND encourage the masses to try the game and hopefully get hooked.

In the meantime? I've never enabled GLFF. It's a ridiculous channel and I have no desire to be a part of that, before F2P or now. IMHO the controls around the F2P players are pretty solid, they can't really harrass directly thanks to the controls on tells, they can't really grief other players thanks to the PvMP lockout, and they can't really spam/bork up economy issues due to the controls around the AH and their gold caps. But open channels are just that, open channels. And in any game/social interaction where open communication is available people can and will be jerks. If for no other reason than just to stir up trouble.

Anyhow, that's my 2 cents.

My parents used a particularly well thought out strategy, and that was to stop hiding their children from the world as if that protected environment would serve them as adults. If we came across something "indecent" or otherwise (and seemingly) inappropriate for children, they'd explain it in simple terms. They wouldn't rush us away or cover our eyes. We would just continue whatever we were doing.

When we were tiny tots, a foul mouth was explained as a foul mouth, and to not speak like that. They made no big deal of it in front of us, and so we never spoke like that as children. They used humor too.

My father and I (who was five) were driving on a long trip, and this woman by the roadside was trying to catch a ride, enticing everyone by having no shirt or bra. My father asked, "Should we stop to pick her up?"

My reply? "No. She was smoking."

We both laughed our arses off. I knew that she had a chest, that she was trying to get a ride. I didn't want to see her in our car. AND she was smoking. I was five. Being of the world is more important. Keeping their children safe, to my parents eyes, meant sometimes giving us the world in small manageable doses.

Chat needs some filtering (which you can control by the way), but going off the deep end emotionally in front of our children, and hiding our children away, pretending that this will serve them as adults, only hampers and hinders their growth.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Livejazz

Making "examples" of people only works if the rest of the community can see the example being made, but due to privacy concerns, I don't know of a single MMO company that publicly divulges what discipline it exacts on offending players.

Thus, no "example" can be made, so there's nothing to make the rest fall in line.

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Well yes Bree is bad. But frankly I've always avoided Bree if I could because something in the air there just make grumpy people. Bree has ALWAYS (in the 3 years I have been playing) been bad.

Yeah there are a few more popping up the The Shire but they seem to settle down once they are greeted with the friendliness of folk that charactarizes the Shire.

Itt'll settle down and its got nothing do with whether they are free to play or new subscribers. A large influx of peopel in general will create some turmoil, then, given time, the turmoil will die down.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thane9

The two questions that I see come out of that truth are these:

1> What responsibility does Turbine have to prevent, hinder, dissuade, ban, etc those people from participating in their game?

A> A LOT, with respect to their game mechanics. A LOT, with respect to hate/racist/homophobic type speech. A LOT, with respect to targeted harrassment and griefing. A LITTLE, with respect to the "bad words" (this is what the filter is for).

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I agree with this point - Turbine has a lot or responsibility in this area. They spelled out the ToC for online play, and are responsible for consistently enforcing it.

On the note of GMs around - I am positive that the GMs are responding quickly to chat abuse complaints. Just because a person hasn't been booted, doesn't mean they haven't been warned. They have an account infraction system in place that we don't necessarily see, right away.

They have a system in place that warns and educates players about their conduct, and results in bans for repeat offenders.

Quote:

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2> Is a greater % (not just greater #) of the player base these types of people with the inclusion of F2P? Note: of course the number is greater...more players = more of that %. But is the % greater IMHO is the key question.

A> Yes. I believe there is a MUCH higher % of these people currently in the game. Furthermore I believe there is a "critical mass" where there's enough of those players to actually make the game not enjoyable to others.

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Any free game will attract a broader array of players, lore junkies (like you and me), all the way to professional vitriolists. As time goes on, Trolls will get repeatedly banned (on their several accounts), some "marginal" players will learn to enjoy being positively involved in the world, and others will leave.

Quote:

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Turbine needs to make sure their game ENCOURAGES positive and supportive play, and DISCOURAGES those who want to just stir up trouble. I'm a much larger fan of implementing controls, devices and mechanics that keep these people from being trouble in the first place rather than throwing an army of GMs at the game to police the after effects. But that's difficult to do AND encourage the masses to try the game and hopefully get hooked.

In the meantime? I've never enabled GLFF. It's a ridiculous channel and I have no desire to be a part of that, before F2P or now. IMHO the controls around the F2P players are pretty solid, they can't really harrass directly thanks to the controls on tells, they can't really grief other players thanks to the PvMP lockout, and they can't really spam/bork up economy issues due to the controls around the AH and their gold caps. But open channels are just that, open channels. And in any game/social interaction where open communication is available people can and will be jerks. If for no other reason than just to stir up trouble.

Anyhow, that's my 2 cents.

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Another thing that would make chat control a lot easier is if we could just right-click report someone for various offenses (besides being a gold seller.) Truthfully, I haven't needed to report a gold seller in over a year. But I have needed to report serious channel abuses (attacking other players / using racial slurs, etc...)

The occasional four letter word doesn't bother me personally, and I'll educate my children that using that language isn't acceptable around me, even if "all their friends are doing it" (this includes online and offline)

Not a problem on Nimrodel as far as I've seen, but felt like playing lower levels so was playing on crickhollow and it was pretty bad...I switched to Brandywine and it was far worse, now returned to Nimrodel....think I'll stick there...perhaps the nimrod in the name kept most of them away from it.

BTW, lots of posters warned of this, and all those hardcore posters that seem to own the forums made fun of any concerns as usual.

My only advice is to get your kins to get a no tolorance attitude and ....don't ignore them or filter it out...after all it's not just the language, it's mean-spirited people with no standards that you really don't want to group with even if they watched their language...report them, every time...perhaps the worse ones will go away.

For those that say "this type of behavior is common, just ignore it." Really? Do you really believe that? All the freedoms that you claim to have in America only came because a few people would stand up and try to make changes. Racial equality, gender equality, freedom of press, freedom of speech, freedom from search, etc. All these came because brave people stood up.

To the freedom of speech people. Go to a movie theater tonight. Halfway through the movie stand up and yell "FIRE" and see just how long your freedom lasts.


The chat and naming in this game IS getting worse. I created a newbie alt just for the sake of playing around Bree to help new people. In the 3 years I played this game before F2P, I never reported anybody. In the few weeks since F2P started I have felt the need to report 3 people for naming violations, and have ignored A LOT of people for chat problems.

The naming violations had to do with the male anatomy, the despotic tyrant leader of North Korea, and a drug reference.

Reporting those names, and making them get changed is fine I suppose. Ignore keeps me from having to see the words from those particular characters again. However, it doesn't really solve anything. It is like putting a band-aid on a compound fracture. Taking your concerns to Turbine's forums allows Turbine to see that there are discontent people. If Turbine sees enough discontent people they may make some changes. They have changed many things in this game over the last 3 years because people have spoken up.

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Originally Posted by GV-Tanith

I must respectfully disagree. This forum is where we discuss matters important to us, such as our community. And I consider the F2P'ers who are truly exploring and falling in love with the game to be as much a part of the community as the old-timers. It might be that we all together can come up with a satisfactory and effective solution.

:)

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Well said! I agree. :)

Just like every other group out there, there are bad people and there are good people. I've met quite a few nice, mature F2P'ers since launch earlier this month, but then there are those that absolutely kill the game because they are there only to troll because it's free for them to play.

Same goes for RP'ers. Same goes for VIP's.

No group is immune, but it's no reason to blame the bunch for the bad apple.

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Originally Posted by ETSubmariner

My parents used a particularly well thought out strategy, and that was to stop hiding their children from the world as if that protected environment would serve them as adults. If we came across something "indecent" or otherwise (and seemingly) inappropriate for children, they'd explain it in simple terms. They wouldn't rush us away or cover our eyes. We would just continue whatever we were doing.

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Agreed. It seems parents are so over-protective these days. With anti-bacterial soaps and disinfectants, parental locks on TV, not letting your kid go anywhere but the backyard, no spanking. It's ridiculous. When your kid gets screwed up you have no one to blame but yourself.

I know I am going to get it for saying this. But the game is rated "T" for Teen. I don't let my 9 year old near any mmo!! That is what her ps2 is for. Leggo for the win. There are time's she expresses interest in my game and I know she is not ready for interaction with the other players. I can control my 9 year old, I cant control the troll on the other side of the keyboard.

We once had a discussion of a farther who had joined our kin, wanted us to guild up his 6 year old. I will say this It gave us a lot of cause for concern. Turned out the 6 year old was allowed to play unsupervised, and well his behaviour was so bad that there was an officer meeting that resulted in the removal of the father and son team.

Allowing small kids to play a game that's meant for big kids and adults is problematic at best. I will say this what are you thinking allowing a 9 year old near the keyboard?

I am sorry they were exposed to something, but that's is on the op. Allowing children to have unsupervised access is on the parent, grandparent or whoever is watching the child.

Now I will have to say even I have noticed the past week things in glff are worse even on brandywine.

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Originally Posted by Livejazz

Ignoring profane vile-spewers solves the problem FOR ME quite nicely.

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Here is what will happen TO YOU

You ignore the players and the problem and for a time this works but.....

New players coming into the game only see the bad behavior and either start acting like them or get a very bad impression of the game and leave for a better more mature game.

Over time your kin and friends start to leave and you will need to replace members. Guess what!!

Server is full of nasty players and you have a hard time finding anyone nice.


Want an example of what happens?? Check out DDO and see if you can get to level 5 with the chat channels on and then see if you can get one pug group that isn't bad.

You cannot ignore these guys......you have to report them otherwise hey will take over.

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Originally Posted by Glavian

Banning offenders won't help anyway. People who talk this way, do so for the attention. If you keep arguing with them, they will keep going. If you ban them, they will come back and do it all over again. If you feed the troll, they will keep coming back for more.

Just ignore them or shut off the channel, they will eventually realize they are fools, and will get bored and leave.

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The game is not a forums and banning does work. See these guys have to work to level their characters and getting banned and having to start over sucks. Plus its not that hard to ban a IP. They will get fed up with getting banned and float over to some other F2P game. Even if they do come back if the GMs and players are on the ball they will never get out of the starter areas unless they start conforming to the standards the game community sets.


Putting your head in the sand and pretending its not there doesn't work in the game. New Players will only see them talking in chat and think thats just the way it is and either move to nicer games or act like the rude players. You won't know what is going on till its to late. You have to report them and once they get banned a couple times its no fun to re level characters and they will move on to other games.

Plus by ignoring them you are telling turbine its ok to keep them around

Not that an online game carries the same risk but would you leave your grand kids alone in a room with 100 complete strangers?

If you knew the kids were about, you should have killed all the public channels, have the obscenity filter ON and parked your toon in a housing area.

I can't say my server hasn't gotten worse with the new influx, but I have had OOC turned off because *I* don't want to see half the stuff that is there.

Friend of mine has a 7 year old and all he does with her is play dress up and house in the housing area and visit the hobbits and elves and dwarves.

In the course of reading through this thread, I am compelled to state a few truths concerning the situation, whether you believe them or not, for your consideration:

- There seems to be a growing tendency towards dismissing the acts of the vile and the profane as something that is simply becoming more “common” in online gaming. This dismissal is, unfortunately, based on a false premise. Man’s tendency towards this type of behaviour is millennia old; the only thing that has changed is Man’s rate of acceptance of it as “free expression”.

- The pattern of acceptance is not unlike an addiction in the mind, and, like any addiction, there will be the inevitable progression from acceptance to self-enslavement. If you doubt this, consider just profanity. Once on a profane road, it becomes increasingly difficult to step off of it, isn’t it? It’s all right; you don’t have to admit to anything out loud, but you know the answer.

- However, even though increasing numbers continue to say that these types of behaviour are acceptable – or even “good” – the fact remains that what is evil is evil. Deep down, in the bowels of one’s conscience, everyone knows full well what is good and bad, whether one says it out loud or not or even whether one admits it to oneself or not. It is known, and, once one knows, one cannot “un-know”.

- By simply and exclusively ignoring these behaviours, one gives them a free pass and does no one any good, save, perhaps, one’s own selfish comforts. People who pay attention to their conscience see the error and want it corrected, not only for themselves but for the sake of others.

- There are those, perhaps, that believe that the maintenance of a good gaming community requires the laissez-faire attitude of leaving others alone and not stepping on toes. However, history has proven, time and again, that the rule of law, the acknowledgment of right and wrong and judging appropriately, has created better communities than an anarchistic model.

- Turbine has released their EULA/Code of Conduct in definite terms. This is the line in the sand. This is the barrier that one does not breach without consequence. Turbine has also, in addition to making the ignore feature available, has also created a system, which uses Help tickets, by which abusive players can be brought to account for the wrong they do. To use this system responsibly, with the EULA/Code of Conduct as the authority behind your reports, one actually does better for the community, while also allowing you to avoid confrontations that Turbine is better equipped and authorized to handle anyway.

It is my hope that this information will be useful for you.

I've got to say... it depends on the channels. I have OOC and Regional turned off, and never will even consider that puketastic GLFF channel again either. Advice can be bad in the low level areas, but overall it's usually fairly nice.

Personally, I've given up reporting people shortly after launch. Turbine won't do squat about CoC/ToS violators anyway.

Avoiding is not the same as ignoring. I don't ignore it, if it gets in my face I will report it, but I don't go out of my way looking for it. If I can lessen my exposure to it with simple measures, I will. It is not really up to the users to police Turbine's game. I have to assume they will take care of enforcement of stated policies. If it is that bad for you, I would say vote with your feet and move along or write a thoughtful non-ranting e-mail to the devs.