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Today Orion discusses the upcoming changes to Minstrels, "I hope that this diary explains the reasons for the changes and provides a roadmap for the future of the class."
Read more in the latest Developer Diary from Allan ‘Orion’ Maki and post your comments here!
I'm still a little disappointed that war-speech won't be renamed to Dissonance. That sounded so cool
Major kudos to the effort made to keep the naming of new skills/stances/buffs in line with the musical nature of the class.
*looks sadly at 'improved rousing words', 'improved all fates entwined'*
I'm nervous at having to re-learn my Mini all over again :(
Me too! Dissonance would have been awesome and ties in so well with all the other terminology changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by AtzumoKayami
Really looking forward to these new mechanics though!
(also, I think the damage-dealing version of Major Ballad is displaying the wrong Icon in the post - It's the same as Perfect Ballad instead of having a 'sharp' after the Clef)
This is a thoughtful and careful Diary, and Im grateful for the amount of time and attention that has gone into the class!
Like anyone, I feel a bit of anxiety about how all this will mesh together at the 75 raid level, but I know if you've put this much heart into the design, you will watch the developments with a careful eye.
Thanks so much Turbine and Orion, for all this work on the Minstrel. I can't imagine anyone else putting this kind of effort into a class 4 years down the road!
~Reanigael, Landroval.
ORION?
Is it possible the new instrument system could function in a way such as an "of Clarity", (etc or however named) Flute, would give Anthem duration, and one "of Basso", etc, gives healing power reduction - but for the same instrument type?
The reason I ask is I play the Harp, love the Harp, and so far to date in LRO I've had to use a Horn, a Drum, or Clarinet.
With RoI, the Harp is once again not going to be up my most-used alley (Anthems) based on what my kin needs me for.
Is there ANY way we can get a few more options per instrument, please please please? So a Harp that does power reduction, and another Harp in the same recipe/exchange earning-system that does Anthem, etc?
Since these aren't in beta yet, there is time to just add a few more right?
THANK YOU!!! *Squints eyes and Hopes really hard*
Out on parental leave, Orion still puts remarkable care and attention and (most importantly) communication into a Dev Diary.
Kudos to you, sir; from the bottom of my heart.
"Dissonance" -- we wants it, precious. Far, far more applicable and keeping in tune (hah, a pun) with the theme of the changes. Please make it so.
Awesome, I'm leveling a mini on the original proposal of the changes. Level 39...still have a ways to go.
The new changes play very well.
It is not any where near the radical change it sounds like in writing.
Once the healing power costs are in line, it's a very good update to the minstrel. I noticed that power costs were being tinkered with on the test server when I logged in today, so I expect that will get balanced out in the end. It's already much improved today.
Things are looking... much improved.Quote:
Originally Posted by ConstantiaChlorus
I still remain nervous about the changes to Ballads/Anthems.
At the moment, my ballad buffs last for about 30 - 50 seconds, giving me abit of leeway to heal between buffs early in. And even with those durations I can't keep them up constantly in long fights since I need to A) conserve power and B) keep the party healed from the harder hits that start getting dished out.
Problem A arises in the increased cost power - which Im hoping will be recalculated once RoI goes live.
Problem B is that with a 20 second (from what I've heard, shared) cooldown, no tier 3 ballads to pop off quickly [now I have to hit 3 ballads then do an anthem for any group buffs - which will only last 10 seconds anyway], my capability to fulfill my secondary role of buffing the party seems to be going down the toilet. - I'm curious as to how this improves the minstrel exactly.
Also - is it true that base healing has been reduced? Or was that just a test issue in the RoI beta?
Or they could have called it something like "E flat minor", which is an especially evil sounding chord.Quote:
Originally Posted by AtzumoKayami
Nah, considering the learning curve with all the other changes just stick with War Speech.
The icons have changed even more. Feedback in beta made mention that they were all too alike. We have adjusted them to be G-clef (major), C-clef (perfect) and Treble/F-clef (minor) to make the appearances more distinguishable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenaril
Yahum! Noted that today, was very pleased with the change... had no idea if it was covered under the NDA, though. <.< >.>Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion
Anyway! "Dissonance", we cry!
The new changes look interesting "except"... there are just so many of them it isn't the minstrel class anymore this is an entirely new class.
Why didn't you just create a new class called a skald or bard, with this in mind and leave current minstrels intact as they are, as they currently play.
I love new ideas and new classes, but my dad always told me " don't fix what isn't broken"
Minstrel was not broken, it didn't need this sort of fixing.
Kudos Orion on making an outstandinly looking new class :) but, alas it is not the minstrel!
I wish there was time for you to just make this in to a new class and forgo making these changes to the minstrel,
If we had more than 26 days of full knowledge of the impact of this perhaps we could have talked you into making it a new class ( which I'd defintely buy from the store hehe )
I will of course adapt, but how many people that loved Minstrels as they previously were, will not like these changes at all?
This reminds me of the stealthed animation changes to music, and to hobbit movement and so on... it is going to be the same result, some will love it some will hate it.
I would just love to see this as an option and not as impending doom, and forced upon us changes. 4+ years here minstrels wore medium armor, and healed and sang and danced, and did not have to worry much about complicated performances like a Warden does.
This "new class" looks so complicated, some people that liked the simplistic nature of the minstrel in its current form, might not enjoy this new build at all.
Keep in mind, I like the general idea of this, but I'd like it a lot more as a new class instead of a drastic ovehaul of the minstrel.
Now here is my request for the future: If and when you decide to drastically change a class this much, just instead make a new one put it in the store for sale, and people will buy it. People on existing classes will not be upset, it will be a win win situation and you will make more money as you will be selling a new class.
Same goes for animation/stances for music
hey why not introduce all our old music stances we had years ago with those old existing music poses as /music2 and sell the stance in the store :P I'd buy it!!!!
I'm glad that the power issues are being resolved, but I guess we are still far from a final version (balancing the skills takes time after all, and that's the reason for the beta anyways). Can't wait to see the new instruments, and the CD of CtG is fixed sometime in the future. I wonder if the healing output will be tramped with too, since apparently minis aren't scaling very well in the last 10 levels. Well, 25 more days to go!
I agree on all counts. Great dev diary, and I'd like to see War-speech become Dissonance. War-speech is a cool name, but Dissonance is far more appropriate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crissaegrim
-Bel
Can you give a little more information about the change of medium armor to light armor when RoI goes live?
If I'm wearing crit-crafted medium armor when RoI goes live, does it stay essentially the same in terms of stats and appearance (besides being converted to light armor), or does it get switched to some new, generic place-holder armor?
What happens to all the bound, medium armor I already have?
If medium armor already in my inventory is bound to me, can I still put it in the wardrobe after RoI? I've got a few pieces that I really like the look of - I'd like to know for pre-RoI wardrobe planning.
Does this also mean a change to existing tailor recipes?
Oh, and if we're voting, I like Dissonance better than War-Speech also.
Agreed, Dissonance even looks cooler then War-Speech. Now I need to go find a way to apply Dissonance to daily conversation and impress ppl...Quote:
Originally Posted by Belnavar
@shiredweller
I believe, and i will need to follow up with another dev, that worn and bound armour will all simply become light armour. It may just be the armour that you are wearing though. Whuchever it is the armour will have the same look, same stats but contributions willnchange to be in line with light armour instead of medium. That should (emphasis should) only affect the armour rating of the item. Level. Appearance and so on should remain the same.
I Believe that the armour recipes remain the same. Though we may have made them into light.
It's really a change that no one asked for, either we'll adapt or we'll sit and let the RKs heal, but my thoughts so far:
Minstrel is now an advanced class, be sure to update the description on the intro screen.
I got the impression that ballad should be set and then changed as your healing/power/damage goals change. In reality, if you're dps'ing, you will need to continue doing ballad damage as your calls and cries will be on CD. Skill rotation might be that you do ballads interspersed with cries/calls to get the 3 ballads up, it just doesn't seem like what was outlined. An assumption, I know what that means, so I guess I was just wrong with that.
We used to be good healers and good buffers, now we can only be either a good healer or a good buffer, depending on how we trait and our choice of a stance. But maybe that doesn't matter, as power costs are much higher, tho I see you've at least reduced the cost of BC to 296 base cost at level 75. But 700 power for IF? I told a LM last night his role in a raid will now be to keep the minis powered up. Cost for IF might be acceptable if raids no longer do AOE damage so that IF was rarely needed. Yep.
Healing output has gone down, maybe it will come back to our level 65 output with new gear and ballad buffs and anthems and traits, but yeah, if anyone is wondering why we can't keep them healed...
Song of the Hammerhand is a mere shadow of its former self, providing only a 1980 bubble, what happened to the 4x base morale? This skill formerly used power, so it could in theory provide around a 6k bubble (roughly full power plus a pot).
I do like the removal of the WS tail effect. And too bad for anyone in the moors, you're not getting heals unless you protect the mini so s/he can drop WS.
In short, you still need to bring the numbers in line in terms of power cost and healing. If I level to 75 I want to feel like I've actually made advances, not regressed in my abilities. It could be I'm missing all the gear since I auto leveled and admittedly didn't spend any time optimizing relics or anything.
It's probably a good thing that instances have been delayed for a couple months, as minis will need to relearn the class and groups will have to learn to compensate for healer that doesn't heal as well as it used to.
As reflected in other threads in the Minstrel Forum, the latest iteration of Isengard on Bullroarer has addressed the Power consumption issues using a mixture of alteration of skill cost and use of appropriate (new) minstrel instruments.
Things are looking very attractive at the moment.
wow major update for mini again imo. i wonder whats next
What happens with the relics for Ballad Damage Tier 1 and 2?
I've been looking forward to this large dev diary since I spoke to Sapience at PAX Prime about the changes to my class. Thanks for catching us all up. If I'm not mistaken, you have a background in music too, don't you? It makes a lot of sense now than it did before!
I've played a minstrel since open beta and I, at first, was hesitant as everyone else but I believe that once we get use to the changes it'll be a powerful healer, buffer, and dps-er in the future. Thanks for the hard work.
You should be able to, as I believe most (if not all) of the current wardrobe restrictions are being removed anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShireDweller
My own, personal, knee-jerk reaction...
My minstrel is what I consider my main. She's the character I'm the most experienced with and with whom I have completed the most content. I've logged the most hours on her out of all of my characters. I've considered myself fairly competent in groups and have had that estimation of myself reinforced by others.
This "back to the drawing board" revamp of the class will essentially put me (and everyone playing a minstrel) back at square one. I'll have what amounts to zero experience with her now, despite the fact that I've played her for years. This will make me at least hesitant - if not outright completely unwilling - to join any groups, since I don't want to be incurring the wrath of a group for not keeping them alive while I'm relearning almost all of my skill rotations and usages (not to mention which new traits are best, which legacies are now useful for me with these new skills/rotations, which relics, etc.).
I suppose I may get over it eventually, but for now, it's hard for me to see any personal positives to this. What will be will be, I guess, and it's not like I'm ragequitting or anything, it's just frustrating :( I was really attached to my little Sparkle just the way she was. I didn't want to play a different class as my main, but now - playing the same class kind of WILL be like playing a different class.
Obviously not everyone feels the same though - again, this is just my opinion.
With that, I will no longer play the Minstrel again. I only played it with medium armour because well, I liked the looks better and they suited me better stat wise with my playstyle. I have absolutely no interest in how the stats of light armour are for other people. I solo quest for the most part. If I wanted to be 'squishy' I would have played a LM or I would continue leveling up my RK. I've been playing a minstrel about 3 years now and never bothered with the class 'light armour sets' because I couldn't stand them. Since the Med armour that 'should' be whatever it is you plan will quickly be outstripped in the new expansion, I expect whatever I am wearing now will not last and keep me alive fighting level 75+ monsters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion
I guess I will just make my Minstrell a crafting alt. That will be all she is good for after the change, regardless of skills, because I played the minstrel to also wear med armour. That's what drew me to the class in the first place.
All I can say is I'm very disappointed.
I'll be yet another to say that Dissonance would be way cooler than War-speech. It would be much more consistent with the reinforced theme of the Minstrel.
FIrst of all, congrats Orion and thank you for all the effort that you have put in. Regardless of anything this change will make the minstrel a more challenging and I think balanced class to play and I think that that can only be a good thing. Without wanting to seem demanding though... Some info on how the legacies are changing would be lovely!
And I put a vote in for disonance...
All I can say to this is after the update med armour will have no useful stats for a mini, all of our damage is from will, so might or agility will be of no use and the added armour can come from the replacement trait. Med armour will be full of agility for hunters and burgs i'd say so it will be of no use what-so-ever to minis. Think of it, you can get relevant damage bonus stats AND the extra AC rating if you desire... Much better than at presentQuote:
Originally Posted by Jassiminn
just putting in my minority vote PRO war-speech instead of dissonance.
first off, "war-speech" is more consistent with the lore. it feels more middle-earthy. the word dissonance has latin roots, which tolkien avoided in his naming schemes.
also, "dissonance" makes me think of stravinsky's "rite of spring" and the riot that it caused. i just can't imagine middle-earth minstrels making harsh, "ugly" music, even to attack foes. the power of their music that sapped their opponents' morale didn't come from clashing chords, at least not the way i imagined it.
I like what I'm seeing.
So many changes though that I might just scrap my lvl57 Minstrel (which I haven't played in months) and start over. Been looking for a reason to redo Eriador anyway.
The only thing that would really hurt me about this step is that this the one char I took to kindred with the Inn League... back in the day when doing the Shire pub crawl was the only way to raise rep after doing the delivery quests.
Just wondering...
Anthem of the Third Age (Melody) - Coda grants free use of Bolster Courage for 10 seconds.
According to the post by Cloudie-wan it makes BC also instant cast.
Does this mean we can spam BC without any inductions or power costs?
EDIT: nvm...
Melody grants - While active if the coda is used: Your next Bolster Courage can be cast without an induction timer or power cost if cast within ten seconds.
The real problem for many minstrels will be just to learn the new class, because it´s a new one. But once it´s done ... man, i have seen so many good things, that i´d hardly complain about anything. Once minstrels get used and know how to play their class, those power costs will be very reduced, and their new buff system is simply brilliant.
Congratulations to those minstrels who will feel happy with the new system, and sorry to all those minstrels who didn´t want their class to change.
If what the rumours of proposed changes of healing RKs are true, then you minstrels have nothing to worry about competence, you will be the true masters of the healing, and competing very high with captains about masters of the buffs.
What I like the most is the concept of the changes, as I cannot really say anything on the specifics, something that will come with actual play. Basically, I think it is a very good idea that minstrels will be able to choose what role they wish to strengthen - healing, buffing or damage. I think this brings a lot of tactical depth to playing the class, which is definitely for the better. Still, I do hope that minstrels will be able to remain the primary healing class, as a reduction in baseline damage will be indeed unfortunate. After all, if minstrels are no longer the best healers around, there doesn't remain much difference between them and rune-keepers ...
I agree with the view that removing medium armour will not be really such a big issue, as with all the class changes, medium armour will indeed have no particular value for minstrels anymore. Besides, it frees a trait slot, which I think is quite beneficial.
I have a couple of practical questions: for example, do you intend to keep the same cooldown when changing a stance? I think this should be reduced (or there should be a legacy or trait able to do that), in order to let minstrels change their role during combat. Naturally, it would be best if stances can be changed instantly, without any lingering effects, but I would happy if there is something like a 5s transition. Also, do you plan any new/improved skills after level 65?
Overall, I feel good with changes, and this is the second dev diary that makes me smile (after the captain one). I'm kind of split between playing captain and minstrel, so the changes to both vlasses sound very good and interesting.
I'm very happy with these changes; everything looks great.
Oh, and I vote for dissonance too.
Yay for C-clef! Hardly anyone knows about it any more. Nice touch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion
While I agree that this is a very well worked out dev diary, I still don't see the expressed hope to explain the reasons for all this fulfilled.
This question for me still remains: why?
The minstrel was fine the way it was. And given the expression that the complete rework of the way anthems work "may become mainstays of the Minstrel class" I don't see any good reason for changing the class in such a huge way when there's no assurance for continuity.
Mind you, I'm not saying I don't like the changes nor am I saying that I like them. I spend most of my time roleplaying and I almost never do raids, so one way or the other I will be able to live with the changes I suppose.
It's just: why? I simply don't get it.
As for war speech vs. dissonance I'd rather suggest 'chorus' as a name for the third stance. Imagine a chorus of hundred singers, they will literally blow their opponents away simply by the force of their voices. Windpower :D
Okay, so if my Warspeech heals are now self-heals without a healing penalty, what is stopping me?
I mean, literally: if I can hit hard and heal myself, why not just make the enemies fall dead when they see me, and save us all some time?
Oh I am not complaining, I think solo-ing will be a lot more fun that way. But I feel like I am missing 'the catch' here.
As I see it the minstrel became an advanced class with these changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by DerBarde
For the average healer you can still spam Bolster Courage. Even go a bit crazy and add 3 ballads as needed for -power or +healing.
For the advanced healer you can do a lot more to get the most out of your class while healing. I didn't try the class yet, but I guess it's less boring now in long fights if you actually build up ballads and fire off codas while still trying to keep your raid fully healed.
Concerning LI legacies:
Tier 1 and 2 ballad damage became Minor and Perfect ballad damage. You probably won't notice the transition. Weapons have an added major legacy that affects Anthem Duration which will probably replace WS tail effect duration. Everything else is much the same.
Concerning the class revamp:
It's a great change. It seems like a lot but it really isn't. Healing and dps skills are exactly how they were before and the group skills like CtG and Song of Aid remain potent and worthwhile. The only real system change is how (and for many people, whether) you utilize the ballad tiering/anthem process.
In essence, Anthems are the new ballads. They're on a shared cd, but they are stackable and the buffs are very worth it. I see a lot of blue minis venturing into yellow territory for the increased stackability.
The Coda is the new Anthem, only with a bigger immediate impact on the tide of battle. If you like the constant re-tiering of ballads, you will love the Coda. If you hated re-tiering ballads for the buffs, you'll probably avoid the Coda unless you need a big heal. If you're all about strictly maximizing your healing and cutting power costs, that's easier than ever to sustain.
In short, laid back minis can be more laid back, buffing minis get shinier toys, and bored minis who hated BC spamming get a big heal worth building up to in the Coda.
So those of you concerned about "re-learning" the class, I encourage you to give it a shot. It's much simpler once you get your hands on it.
Concerning dissonance:
You have my vote to change it. Just don't take away my glowy hands again!
What is the base duration and cooldown of anthems? 10 and 20 or 10 and 15?
I've hearsay it was 10 and 15, but also that the minimum you could get the CD to was 5. I'm counting 3 -5 sec CD bonuses though.
The following entirely ambiguous, can Orion clarify:Quote:
Originally Posted by Clover
Does this mean ALL bound armour the minstrel has changes, or only that which he has equipped?Quote:
Medium Armour – Super Important
Minstrels will no longer be able to wear medium armour. The trait allowing Minstrels to wear medium armour is being replaced with something that is equally valuable. It is important to note that any medium armour that is bound and that the Minstrel is wearing when the Isengard expansion goes live will become light armour
The phrase I have bolded could be read
a) any medium armour that is bound and WHICH the Minstrel is wearing
b) any medium armour that is bound and ALSO that [armour] the Minstrel is wearing
The way it's phrased seems to imply only equipped will be, since all equipped gear is bound, then by definition that would include equipped armour so the fact Orion specifically mentions gears that's EQUIPPED seems to mean not all medium armour will be changed: in which case that kind of sucks it seems to me, the character would end up with useless gear.
I had questions about this too, check page 2 in this thread for my questions and replies by Orion and others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerin_Eldar
Many of us still do, you provide no explanation in that diary as to WHY you have totally redesigned the class into something barely recognisable with its' former self. This diary only describes the 'what' of the change, no mention of the 'why'.Quote:
When I first mentioned the changes that I was considering for the Minstrel there was, with reason, a large outpouring of concern and question about the changes. More pointedly, however, many players wanted to know why we were making changes to the Minstrel in the first place. I hope, through this diary, to allay those concerns and questions enough to allow for a gentle transition to the new methods employed by the Minstrel. If nothing else, I hope that this diary explains the reasons for the changes and provides a roadmap for the
When are you going to give that explanation. What did you think was so broken that a fundamental re-building of the class was needed? I've never seen anyone from Turbine explain this, your diary doesn't have a single sentence addressing the need for any changes, let alone something as radical as what you've done.
Okay, cheers, I hadn't noticed that yet:Quote:
Originally Posted by ShireDweller
Yes Orion, but if ONLY worn armour is changed then minstrels that have multiple gear items for various slots will be left with unusable gear that they're not wearing at the moment the update hits: that would not be acceptable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion
In the current build, the base is duration/cd is 10/20. It sounds bad until you realize that's with no yellow traits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dedfyre
Glorious Anthem adds 5s to duration. Smooth Voice reduces cd by 5s. That will put you at an even 15/15 for a constant anthem buff.
3-deep yellow bonus takes another 5s from cd for 15/10, effectively giving you a 5s window to have two anthem buffs running. 4-deep bonus adds 5s to duration and takes 5s from cd (huge step up in bonus), putting you at 20/5. This translates to three constant anthem buffs if you're dilligent.
The major LI legacy adds up to 10s to duration. That's 30/5 for those of you keeping score and lets you keep four anthems up constantly.
Factor in that the Anthem of the Third Age - Harmony buff doesn't expire if you're in Harmony stance. Yep. Five of six anthem buffs at once if you want.
And yes, the anthem effects on the Coda stack.
I foresee 4 yellow/3 blue becoming a very popular build.
You make a good case for keeping away from "Dissonance". While it suits the musical theme, I didn't realize that Tolkien stayed away from words with Latin roots.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_underfoot
I propose a third alternative, still musical in nature - how about "War-Chant"?
Well, he used the word 'discord' and that is synonymous with 'dissonance' and while the etymology may be different, it's a pretty esoteric argument for avoiding using a perfectly reasonable and descriptive term , citing 'lore' reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShireDweller
The difference in level 65 and 75 gear is substantial enough that this statement will be true across the board. Gear unusable by your toon by weight restriction can now be added to the wardrobe, so cosmetic use will be preserved. I recommend wearing whatever medium armor set you use while dps-ing so it will be usable while leveling. I don't have one myself so I can't speak to the potential issue of having a second set become unusable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerin_Eldar
If combat use is your concern, I can assure you that full self-heals in War-speech overwhelmingly make up for any +armour you're losing.
Great updates and great Dev diary imo. I havent played my minstrel since 2010 but I feel that with these changes I will and level it into 75 and maybe have some fun with it again :)
Thanks Orion.. brilliant job :) keep it up!
Orion,
Here's an issue that hasn't been addressed with these radical changes to the minstrel: duration of the ballads in PvMP.
You state "Instead, these buffs apply themselves to the Minstrel and will stay active on the Minstrel until they actively leave combat for a short period or they use other skills that remove them."
As I understand the beta information, this is a 5 second cooldown to drop back out of combat.
I constantly drop in and out of combat as we chase around the Moors. This means that every fight I start with 3 ballads (minor) before I get my first cry off, assuming Im running in war speech.
Lets take last nights battles: I start at TR alternately healing and attacking creeps as we run down to the ford at TA. I counted and dropped out of combat no less than 4 times in each surge. Even if the tail on the ballads is 5 secs, I would have dropped out of buffing / casting.
Worse, I got jumped several times by wargs trying to kill off out healing. (A separate issue as we were fighting 5 defilers and 9 war leaders vs 3 minis - 45+ creeps vs 22 freeps). How do I stay alive with the ballad requirements / the bubble reduction/ and a 10 minute cool-down. So if I run in Harmony, I dont do bursty damage, but do get to heal my group and myself and still have 15 to 20 seconds before I cast anything like an effective activity.
Fighting in the keep is even worse: I have to break line of sight to get out of BA and spider targeting constantly. That either doesn't drop combat without a distance component (example, I have to run to the stairs from the door to drop out of combat at TR) or drops immediately as soon as the creep I'm targeting dies. Thats if I fight from the same floor as the attack. If I attack from the overhangs (balconies etc.) either by the cauldrons or in the flag room, I drop in and out of combat again as I have a target.
When fighting with a group/raid, getting into and out of combat is even more problematic. While I can stay in combat better as I inherit the state from the raid members, I cant depend on that. Take the above given TR fights: I could drop out of fighting immediately on diving into the flag room. Great for rezing but terrible for ballad maintenance.
All this being said, can we get the following information clearly from you:
1. How do minstrels work in the Moors?
2. How long does the minor ballads tail last?
3. Do we have any alternative to Cry of the Chorus when we get jumped to unlock our skills?
4. If you have a warg targeted and do a Cry of the Chorus, does all the damage of the ballads get applied to the warg? (Sorry I meant to mention this earlier... Im trying to understand the survivability in the moors and came up with this question. )
Teldra
You sacrifice your ballads. They're on a shared, 1 second CD so, when pressed, you can't wait 3 seconds to be fully buffed before starting to heal or dps or cast anthems, so you'll run with lowered healing and/or increased power costs (it's more accurate to say baseline healing and power costs) until you have time to cast the ballads and the anthems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teldra
Your bubble isn't going to save you, providing only 1980 in protection for a maximum of 30 seconds.
On the bright side, trait to make BC uninterruptable by damage and focus healing on yourself
/facepalm
I have no idea what brought Turbine Devs to the idea to need to rework a class, the minstrel, to such an extent that it is completely and utterly a new class.
Personally i find it frustrating.
Minstrels have had a couple of skill reworks - new icons - great fun and needed to relearn it all again. And now AGAIN.
In my humble opinion - the minstrel class was absolutely fine as it was.
At the moment most of my minstrel friends ingame are fuming at these changes. We of course will have to see what it brings ingame.
I have decided for myself (and i know a few that are thinking the same) - shelf the minstrel and be done with it. Or delete the minstrel and start from level 1.
This Turbine must be the most stupid stunt you have pulled off.
So with all 7+ pages of dev diary Orion fails to mention that we lose: ballads, anthems, codas, power management and healing efficiency in the Moors? That our bubble is 25% as effective as before and 5% as effective as the creep bubble? I also notice that he doesn't mention our improved rez which we still dont know will work in raid or solo... I have test that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Namesse
Teldra
1. Tons more burst damage, slightly less ballad buff survivabilityQuote:
Originally Posted by Teldra
2. 9 seconds
3. If by skills you're referring to the anthems, no. But with the ballads on separate 1s cd's, it takes roughly 1.5s to hit a minor-perfect-minor combo and unlock them (assuming the anthems themselves aren't on cd)
4. No
I think you're overestimating the value of the ballad damage and their in-combat buffs and underestimating the value of crys and the coda. Remember, skills formerly known as Anthem of the Wizards/Free Peoples are now detatched from the ballad tier system, usable on the move, and recategorized as Crys. If you get jumped and survive, traited 5 red it takes seconds to bubble (1 min cd), slow (30 s cd), and speed buff (30s cd) and get enough range to start unloading.
Mini burst damage is massive with RoI. My current dps rotation on regular mobs is TEoB -> minor -> perfect -> minor -> Anthem of War -> CoO -> CtF -> piercing -> CotSA -> Cry of the Wizards -> Cry of the Free Peoples -> CoO -> CtF -> Coda of Fury. If they somehow survived that, a few more ballads/calls does the trick, but in a pinch popping CoC -> Anthem of War -> Coda of Fury is a quick way to knock off another 1k morale (non-crit).
As of the previous beta version (haven't seen it used since the latest update) AoE rez works just like AoE dread removal -- anyone in range, even in different fellowships. Worked great in 24-man Drailoch attempts.
Hmm. That makes me feel a bit better. Did you try to heal in raid in the Moors. I have enough trouble staying alive in the Moors. It will be interesting to see what a 1v1 looks like. 9 seconds seems to be better than 1.5 seconds that I saw on another post. A legacy that extends the duration of ballads might be useful to consider.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeRaginAsian
My normal rotation is Piercing -> TEoB -> CoO -> ballads etc until the cooldowns end. I prefer the 5 sec stun and let the tanks catch the creep. Now I will have to reset my rotation in the Moors. I hope I can keep using the ballads on the run.
Teldra
So this is equivalent to the WL rez for 6 within range?Quote:
Originally Posted by revoked
(BTW, off topic, do you know if finesse doesnt work in the Moors? I notice our Moors armor has no finesse value.)
Teldra
If you are at 30s duration and 5s cooldown you should be able to keep 6 up full time after the first 30 seconds + time for ballad tiering. You can actually get to a 35s duration with the new Mins set. And as you note, you can keep one Anthem up permanently anyway. So it should be manageable to keep up all the Anthems if you build for it. Whether you can heal effectively at the same time will be the bigger question.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeRaginAsian
And I agree 4y / 3b looks pretty beast mode based on the trait-line bonuses. I'm not crazy about the individual blue traits so might even consider going back to a 5/2 build with dual tales since that's the only way to get the bigger group armour bonus.
I haven't, I generally don't heal in the moors because I get sick of doing it in instances. I consider it my mini's "me" time. :) That extended expiration duration legacy sounds like a nice idea for a book legacy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teldra
Remember that War-Speech heals aren't nerfed anymore, they're just restricted to self-heals, so hitting Chord of Salvation on the run is much more viable than it used to be. In that same vein, there is no tail effect to War-Speech anymore so dropping it to heal your fellows is as easy as it used to be before they added that effect.
The level 75 set does. Plenty on the head, chest, and gloves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teldra
On paper you should be able to, but in practice, executing each one takes half a second so they eat away at the duration. If you're strictly focusing on keeping your anthems up, there's a 2 second window where one will expire before the cd is up. Totally forgot about the new set bonus. We don't get new endgame armor free in the beta so I can't quite take advantage of that, but obviously it will make keeping all 6 anthems constant a possibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by bastiat1
Healing in the 5 second windows should be doable. No more ballad tiering for each anthem's benefits, so as long as you don't use a coda, the first three ballads you fire off will keep the anthems unlocked until you're out of combat. Of course, it's going to be hard to resist occasionally firing off a coda that gives you a self-HoT, self-PoT, aoe heal that has a good chance to crit heal and generates 0 threat. The noble cause herald's hammer group heals are nice too.
Can someone comment on the size of the Gift of the Hammerhand bubble and what it costs to cast? I'm not sure if it is worth using, but need real numbers please.
I'm completely baffled by these changes. I'm super causal so I literally have no idea what this means to the play of my character. So let me ask some stupid questions:
Do I have more or less buttons on my skill bar?
Am I clicking on buttons more frequently?
Do I have to watch which buffs are active more closely? Right now it's clear which 'tier' or whatever is available because the buttons are greyed out.
I guess I'm asking is this now a more 'advanced' class, because I'm not sure how I feel about that.
Not sure about the medium armor, which I do have equipped. Should minstrels even be having a shield at this point?
Also, I'm against the term "dissonance". Dissonance/discord is a weapon of the Enemy.
Actually, I'm thinking of my level 24 Minnie for whom I already crafted full gear till 58, I'll be damned angry if all that goes to waste, especially the flakes etc. I used to make it .. she can't wear umpteen items per slot, can she.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeRaginAsian
Quote:
Originally Posted by Namesse
That, right there! It really is now an advanced class. The point to games for me was to be social and hang out with friends. I like spamming BC the whole fight, with little to stress over. I'd heal, interact with the family, heck, even get on the phone sometimes while making sure everyone stayed alive.
Now (and yes, I have played Minstrel 3.0), I really have to pay attention to what I'm doing. In return, this means more stress, less fun.
What do I do then - well, I'd go play Creeps, but they are the same old after 4 years (with minor updates here and there).
I'll go play one of the competitor's where if I need to concentrate on what I'm doing, may as well be with something fresh. Not Enedwaith 2.0 with some straw huts thrown in.
Oh yes, I'm sure the flamers will come saying don't let the door hit you on the way out, but I am really (or was really) passionate about the Minstrel. It's my only level 65 toon (I'm not an alt-o-holic nor do I want to be) and I've take my minstrel everywhere. I really enjoyed him, but with this third unneeded revision, I just don't like it and have no urge to play it.
At least in games like SWG, they would give you free rerolls. I'd like that for here because I no longer want to play a minstrel... if I wanted an advanced class - I would have choosen one.
At level 75, I get a bubble with 1980 morale. It costs 5% of your power and lasts 30s, but if the bubble expires you get the power back. It has a 1 min cd.Quote:
Originally Posted by bastiat1
Less buttons.Quote:
Originally Posted by elendurfarseeker
If you're healing, less clicking of ballads unless you choose to utilize your Coda heal.
Less watching of buffs. The anthems are all on the same cooldown and are the primary source of your group buffs. When the cooldown's up, you know to reapply the anthem or choose a different one that might suit the situation better.
It may read as a more advanced class, but I don't get that impression at all in practice.
Losing medium armor might seem like you're taking a hit, but what the dev diary neglected to mention is the trait is going to add 20% armor from all sources. This includes the armor tales, your shield, cloak, and dp buffs. I haven't done the math, but I imagine it evens out, if not overtakes it. Do remember that the number is only in the current build of beta, so there's a chance it will change. Don't be mad at me!
Ah, that is a tough break. My only advice would be to level her as far as you can now. :( The good news is once you pass level 58, you won't miss any of that armor, I promise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerin_Eldar
Hm, I'm not sure I agree. You can easily throw up Major Ballad 3x and spam BC all day long if you want to. Traited 4 blue you can even throw in Anthem of Compassion for -healing threat and never have to worry about it again.Quote:
Originally Posted by jodokast4ever
To me, the changes allow advanced players to take their healing and buffing to new heights more than it prohibits casual players from doing what they were already used to.
Sounds like you're having more fun outside the game anyway. Perhaps this mmo isn't for you?
Tsk, tsk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion
G-clefs are treble and French violin. French violin is no longer in use
F-clefs are bass, baritone, and sub-bass. Sub-bass is no longer in use.
C-clefs are alto, tenor, baritone, mezzo-soprano and soprano.
:cool:
I'm sensing a huge push to make people use trait lines. I have never traited according to the line bonuses but according to the individual traits.
Reducing our heals to force us to use certain trait lines and skills if we want to do effective healing doesn't seem right. Obviously, I have to wait until RoI to actually know how my Mins (and others) will play, but reading everything (all the dev diaries) has me so extremely nervous; it's almost like we are getting a new game rather than an expansion.Quote:
Much like Orion's changes to the Minstrels (who received blanket reductions in all heals) the class did not truly suffer, because of the bonuses in the traitlines and skill plays.
If that's true, then all will be well.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeRaginAsian
Sometimes I don't mind have to pay attention to all the little dumb icons under names, but most of the time I just want to make sure everyone's morale is good and not stress over what button needs to happen in which order or else ME will collapse in on itself, lol :)
I'll try again: if I can hit as hard as I currently can, and can heal myself without penalty, I can burn through everything with ease. What's the catch?
Song of the Hammerhand : 2k Shield gone in seconds.
What's the point of 30 sec. duration then?
Humm morale bubbles are nice. Looks like RKs aren´t the only ones getting it. Now, let´s hope for minstrels not being the only healers with tons of utility skills, in-combat rez (a true one), great point healing and dread removal... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by LeRaginAsian
The war-speech healing made me really happy, looks like soloing will be much easier now.
I hope it doesn't take much to get used to the new ballad/anthem/coda system though.
It's very true. With no stance (neutral/melody), Major Ballad does a little aoe heal so there's not even a need to target the mob anymore in group situations. Stack up the +healing buffs, throw up the Anthem of Compassion and you can BC all fight long without touching another skill. Of course, I recommend throwing in the occasional Anthem of Third Age to get +10% outgoing healing and -25% skill inductions and make the most out each BC, but that's just me. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by jodokast4ever
Good question. More appropriate one might be, is there a catch?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronigard
You still need power to do these things. That's about it.
To give you a chance to kite the baddies off without losing the power, I imagine.Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandCru
I admit, reading about the changes early on are what kept me from testing out my mini, but when the dev diary came out yesterday, I decided to give it a go. Once you figure out which new icons are which, it's very easy to pick up and run with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Larthias
I'm liking the changes a lot, even though I'll still miss the older style of play. Also, I vote NO on Dissonance. :)
The catch is that healing was reduced by 20% +. In your Warrior-skald DPS build with 3 Minor Ballads up to get your maximum DPS, and possibly even a DPS-oriented book without any of the heal modifiers, your heals will only be hitting for a little over 1k. You have Raise My Spirit, Bolster My Courage, Chord of My Salvation, and Soliloquy of My Spirit available to you, but they will only heal for base amounts, which again, was nerfed. There is also a power issue. So, while there is no longer a War-speech "penalty" you still won't be able to heal yourself as well as you would otherwise be able to with other traits in. (And btw, soloing in WoR traits for maximum self-healing would be ridiculous, as your damage would be terrible, even if you entered War-speech.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronigard
Roughly 9 seconds give or take and based on the game heartbeat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teldra
That sounds like it will be a choice for you to make. Whether you want to build to max damage before using your cries and calls or not is really a choice for you to make.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teldra
Incorrect, but an easy misconception to make. Ballads can be replayed as often as you want and they do deal damage. You have 2 new cries. You have better survivability due to Noble Cause (trust me, there is a nice boon there for Harmony/Power of Song trait lines), if you use the armour of song trait you also have a little better survivability. The bubble defence reduction comes with an added ability to remain relevant longer because there is far less power drain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teldra
Sounds like you are soloing here, maybe join a fellowship so you are in combat with your fellows? It's a thought, again though you get roughly 9 seconds out of combat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teldra
1. Same as they do in live.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teldra
2. The tail on buffs lasts roughly 9 seconds.
3. Cry of the Chorus still exists. Your skills are all available, except for Anthems and the Coda until you use three ballads. Ballads are on a 1 second cooldown and can be used over and over as they can be in live.
4. Cry of the Chorus doesn't deal damage. It buffs you and applies 3 ballad buffs, unlocking Anthems and Codas.
A lot of the feedback that has existed in the Minstrel forums for a long time has been centered around the minstrel being one dimensional. A lot of what the minstrel has done in the past has been to give them that true second play style, or expand it more to become a better stance in general. Or that the minstrel is boring when healing, ie I hit one button over and over and...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerin_Eldar
When Rask made his changes some of these were pushed to a point where they were a little more acceptable, but I wanted to take it further. I wanted to allow the class and its players to have the experience that they have now, have a better and more refined damage-dealing experience and then have a mastery stance. I also wanted to make the experience a little easier and at the same time add a new level of complexity to the class that would allow players to really take advantage of the Minstrel mechanics. (This was the intent with Champion as well.) Time and your experiences will inform me whether I have succeeded or failed.
And...really...the changes seem a lot more invasive and extreme than they really are.
There are no stupid questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by elendurfarseeker
You will have fewer.Quote:
Originally Posted by elendurfarseeker
It is a choice. You can click more often if you choose to do so, or you can click less often.Quote:
Originally Posted by elendurfarseeker
Available skills will not be greyed out and unavailable skills will be greyed out. It should be clear what skills are available for use and when.Quote:
Originally Posted by elendurfarseeker
Minstrels are still going to be an easy class to play, they will have a more advanced top end play style. Medium armor that is worn when Isengard launches will become light armor. Shields are still important to the Minstrel.Quote:
Originally Posted by elendurfarseeker
The catch is, probably, that you're going to run out of Power, and your Power potions have a cool-down period, and you took the last one five seconds ago, and you can't do anything but hit the Orc with your lute.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronigard
(A partial mitigation is to wear any kind of jewelry and what-not that will increase your Fate, which will increase your ICPR.)
QFTQuote:
Originally Posted by Cloudie-wan
Honestly, full self-heals in War-Speech isn't as big a deal as the removal of the tail effect. In a pinch, dropping WS and popping Cry of the Chorus, Anthem of the Third Age, Chord of Salvation, Coda of Vigour, and BC will net you around 4k in heals on the move. The sequence wouldn't be affected by a WS healing penalty as much as the tail effect.
Although I'm sure a full strength, uninterruptable BC while in WS will have more than a few creeps gnashing their teeth.
These changes are major. They'll require relearning the class. Maybe not completely, but from even from the dev diary, I'm having a hard time figuring out what's going on. It'll be easier once I have the character in front of me.
Unfortunately for me, I have a 65 minstrel, and I won't be leveling him up again and learning the skills as I go. I'll have to learn everything at once. This makes him an undesirable for me. I really don't want to learn the class all over. I want to explore the world and see new sites.
All this means for me is that I won't be leveling him. I'll stick with my tried and true characters. I don't wanna figure stuff out as it's beating down on me. I just want to go out there and play the character I already know. With the healing hits on the RK, it means for me, I won't be playing any healers now. Which were my favorite classes.
So at this time, I'd like to ask for another healer class to be introduced to the game. If I have to relearn a class, it might as well be from level 1. Although, with the changes in the LM class, why not make a few more and make them the next healer? You guys just put in a new/better tank. Make a new/better healer. More tank options weren't really needed, but healers are still sparse.
RKs don't like retraiting all the time (seriously, dual spec us so we can get away with spending a fortune on respeccing to help people), and always seem to run dps traits. I had one trying to heal us as lightning spec the other day and we were wondering why we were dying. LMs are a great choice as a new healer class. Few groups like taking them, unless the understand the class. However, give them real healing abilities, and bam! We're in.
Ok, probably not the place for a LM rant, but the other stuff applies. Thanks for something that wasn't wanted or needed.
The minstrel raid set has no finesse on it - and every other class does. Is this intentional or a bug? (I have not seen an answer on this, but it's entirely possible I missed it).
Thanks
Once again, this needs to be highlighted:
Playing a Minstrel will be as EASY or as COMPLICATED as you CHOOSE it to beQuote:
Originally Posted by Orion
If your playstyle wants to be Major - Major - Major - Bolster 'til the cows come home -- that has NOT changed.
If your playstyle is to tinker with min/maxing, utilizing the subjective-best of traits and trait bonuses to keep the maximum amount of buffs active concurrently while still main healing, allowing for quick alterations to your power consumption, Healing output and every other little thing all the time -- You can now do that!
This isn't affecting anyone's existing play-style; it's allowing for a plethora of play-styles to exist, functionally, within the same class we all love.
I find that exciting.
Other sources of Finesse can be found -- my Mini on Bullroarer has ~3600 Finesse, nearly as much as my Guardian.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gillianrial
I looked at some screenshots, that people put up explaining the new use of Minstrels.
What it looked like to me, is that You have a lot of "extra" visuals we did not have before.
I am not a fan of "extra visuals" specially on a minstrel.
Minstrels are musicians not magicians.
Could we please get an option, to disable special effect visuals so that when our characters do certain things like these stances, and so on, that we don't have to see glowy hand type musical notation hovering to the right and left of them?
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/i...songvisual.jpg
this and... these are what i am talking about
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/i...ralevisual.jpg
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/i...ongofaid01.jpg
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/i...greengal04.jpg
Hi!
Just dropping in to say I have a level 36 minstrel on live, that I transfered to Bullroarer out of curiosity. I enjoyed playing him in the Beta a lot (mostly soloing and skirmishing). In my opinion, the changes to the minstrel are great, as they make the class feel more dynamic.
I only wish the cooldown on the anthems would be shorter.
And as for losing your ballad buffs when you go out of combat, it should not happen. (As you have a big and Booyah! finisher move called a Coda, that will erase them before that happens.)
That is all.
Does Cry of the Chorus still cure the minstrel of silence?
Yes, does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arness
I encourage you to at least log onto your minstrel and give it the old college try. I think you'll find maximizing your outgoing healing/dps/power savings is easier than ever and long-forgotten skills are suddenly very useful. Maybe they'll even find a way into your regular skill rotation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenasp
+repQuote:
Originally Posted by Crissaegrim
My thoughts exactly. I've always preferred healing on my captain because of the layers you have to actively build up to be most effective. I'm finding the new minstrel to be similar in the layering of buffs to maximize the fellowship's effectiveness. Mini healing used to be "Okay if I have to" for me, now I can't wait to see what kind of uber-rotation I'll be able to sustain.
Yes. It also has a reduced cooldown of 5 min which the minor book legacy can lower to 3 min. It's my new favorite toy for a burst of damage/healing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arness
That wasn't my question. I would like to know if it's intended it isn't on the minstrel raid set. And if so, why?Quote:
Originally Posted by Crissaegrim
That was what I was getting at on my post earlier Jaiyne. I got the raid and the pvp sets backwards in the screenshots. Based on new info to me, the pvp set has 4 pieces with +996 finesse. I suspect that they just havent itemized properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gillianrial
Teldra
It is intended. The raid set is more of a healing set and there is no need for finesse on a healing set. We are talking about trying to build multiple sets for the future. It also may change, to allow for it to have more value cross all disciplines. I am not certain how it will shake out for Isengard launch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gillianrial
Hello Orion,
Just checked through this thread and I didn't see this question asked:
Being primarily a PvMPer, is the minstrel full fellowship ooc rez on 0s cd still going to be full fellowship rez in the ettenmoors?
Seems more than a bit unbalanced. ;)
Thanks for reading.
I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE.Quote:
This remains true, but the reliance on musical terminology has been expanded somewhat. I am calling this out because it has a measure of relevance as you read more.
Nevertheless, the changes look interesting. No, they actually look amazing. I may be rolling a minnie now if I get bored with my champ. My first toon ever was a minnie, and I played it so badly that the class has always felt kinda tainted by my (then) inadaquacy. Looking forward to this now, a lot.
Thanks for the answer, even though I am disappointed it's intended. We are the only class that has that stipulation, and we should be allowed to do other things in our gear other than just heal. I wear my primary OD set in the Moors now, because it has the the best stats and I don't have the full alternate set. I would want to do the same in RoI because the raid stats > the PvP stats, but clearly, I can't because of the Finesse issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion
I really don't want to have to grind both sets because of Finesse. I would like to wear the gear that gives me the best stats - whatever that is.
Hope it's reconsidered and altered. Consider this my vote if I get one :)
~ Jaiyne
I typically wear my raid set for everything and will not be grinding another set; please put finesse on the set, if it isn't relevant for healing it's just a stat like might, but if we do any solo questing or moors dps or anything else, it is useful, in fact, it's a must have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion
Honestly, if your goal with this revamp is to thin the ranks of active minstrels, you're probably going to achieve that goal.
From looking at the set bonuses I don't see how the raid gear is a healing set. The bonuses seem to cross every trait line and don't focus on one in particular. For that reason, I would say since it isn't a true healing set that we would need Finesse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion
Orion, I thought you said we would be getting 4x our base power for absorption from Story of the Hammerhand. Why did you change this? This skill seems useless now being that it will just be a guaranteed waste of 5% power being that it's unrealistic to go for 30 seconds without taking 1960 damage. Do you have plans to change this or is it written in already for the update? From everything I've read so far, it looks like you've turned the minstrel class into a high power consumption class with minimal help in terms of power return or regen, so if that's the idea you had, then I guess you are sticking to your guns with this skill.
I wished we guards had an Orion there...
And I didn't come here just to say that! As I didn't feel like playing my guard on the beta, I only played my mini and although I don't want to say things you guys probably now better than me, I can assure you of something: the playstyle for me didn't change that much. Sure there are changes but in essence it is almost the same thing. So if you fear you'll have to relearn to play, you'll only have to adapt.
Note: I only did soloing and healing a bit for fun, no instances or anything (I don't raid). So I am not saying efficiency didn't change, but that the gameplay in itself was almost the same, only more fun!
The bonuses cross trait lines, but the overall stats of the armor are for healing. As I said, it is something that we are looking into handling in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megus
On to your second thoughts, in testing the larger the bonus the more we were going to need to extend the cooldown timer on the skill. I really wanted this to be a more active skill, one that became part of the survivability of the Minstrel outside of the Ettenmoors and was a boon inside of the Ettenmoors. Making it 4x (base morale) proved problematic in the non-Ettenmoors world because it was equivalent to several Bolster Courage heals. The skill costs 5% of your power, gives you 1960 points of morale damage absorption and if it survives you recover the power consumed. You are also immune to setbacks while casting.
I am fairly certain that the shield is going to be the boon that it is meant to be due to the low cooldown timer and relative bonus that it provides, is it the ~8k+ power shield of the past? No. This means yo keep your power, you keep your ability to stay fighting and upright in the moors. In group PvE, you can survive that 2k hit with your name on it from the boss that just decided to target you. In solo PvE, it becomes a mainstay skill that you pop to allow you to potentially take on one more mob that you normally would have been able to handle.
Power consumption is an ongoing adjustment, as I said in my blog the addition of instruments will really help the issue. Instruments have always been a way that minstrels could help to mitigate the power costs but the changes that I made obsoleted all existing instruments. Once the instruments are played with I feel that the power issues will be far less concerning.
As far as your last statement...I learned a long, long time ago as a dev that you are never going to please all players. No, it is not my intent to reduce the number of active minstrels. Will that happen? I cannot say. Do I hope that it does not happen? Of course, I want the game that we develop to be fun. I want all classes to be the "best class ever"! People will choose to play it or not. They will then determine if the changes, both simple and complex, are for them and play the character or shelve it...it was certainly never my intent to attempt to reduce the number of people playing the class... Actually, in an ideal world, people like the changes so much they tell friends, who tell friends and so on...
Hi Orion, thanks for your presence (and patience) here and your lengthy explanations!
Let's get this one out of the way: I also second the motions for finesse on the raid set and for multi-output instrument recipes!
I have to say that I'm very excited about the new Minstrel! It all seems so much more fun, I expect that the days of standing in any random boss fight, whether raid or FS instance, and spamming BC on one or a couple targets are finally over! I can't thank you enough :)
I think one issue with power use might be that RoI is an expansion and as such, people who are currently playing it in Beta haven't had loads of time to fine-tune and improve their characters yet. Same thing was true for MoM, and to a lesser extent for SoM. So yeah, at first the power consumption will be crazy, but I'd be very surprised if it gets easier and easier as you spend more time at end-game, perfecting your gear, legacies, relics, traits, etc. And ofc the instruments, when they get fixed :D
I do have one question though, and this is one that puzzles me. I've heard several Beta Minstrels reporting that Raise the Spirit has a HIGHER power cost than Bolster Courage! I'm completely baffled by this, to be quite honest. I understand that it can't be cheap, due to the short cd and all, but surely it should be significantly lower than BC. I did ask them if they had any traits or legacies that reduced BC cost specifically and they said they didn't. Could you say something about that please?