Tracking an Old Goat

Okay, so I got Andreg's whistle, and followed the first quests he gave me, which ultimately took me to the Rohirim camp and I powered through the quest completions, in my eagerness to get to 75. Now I look at the deed mentioned in the title, and see 4 quests I need to complete for it. I asked others and they said Andreg gives them in certain locations while he's summoned, like the ones in Annuminas. My whistle has gone, how do I complete the deed and get the virtue! Others say it warned that you wouldn't be able to complete them if you finished the quest at the Rohirim camp, what's the point in that!

Highly frustrating, I'm sure enough people will have raced through this part, there's only so much quest reading I can do with all the quests given in RoI, especially when half of them have stupid objectives like... "collect slug meat".

In my opinion you should be able to complete the quests regardless, why do we have the multi-layer dynamic thing? Let me go back to the previous layer and complete them! A lot of people are complaining that he doesn't give the quests if you're in the right location with him summoned anyway.

Wow I didn't even know! I just skimmed over it but didn't see a warning... :( guess that makes two of us that can't complete the deed.

Finally...a rewarding experience for those of us who like to actually pay attention to the game, read the quest text, and savor the plot lines....

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

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Originally Posted by whheydt

Finally...a rewarding experience for those of us who like to actually pay attention to the game, read the quest text, and savor the plot lines....

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

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Yes but at the expense of players with a different play style. Yeah that's fair.

On my main I try to get content done as quickly as possible so that I can join the raids that much quicker. I have several alts so I read when I have the time to do so but I don't think I should have to change my play style to complete all deeds in the game.

Alright this entire deed concept is so beyond epic fail that I think my head just exploded...

You mean to tell me that me, a completionist who has done every deed in the game, gets bugged out on the Hunting the Pack quest (i.e. doesn't receive it) and then turns in the whistle...and I am STUCK with a deed that offers a VIRTUE indefinately?

This is baffling.

What about the players who did blitz to 75 for raid/moors content, and will eventually come back to clean out their deed logs? They are forever stuck with this thing because they didn't do 'all' of the offered quests?

I read the quests, and I take my time. I was never offered one of the quests, and now I am stuck with the deed.

Epic fail... Please fix this when you can, Turbine...because it's going to drive me nuts.
And while we're on the subject, fix the blasted Trum Dreng quest count, please.

Real quick: Here's the quick fix, Turbine...
Make the stationary NPC (Andreg) offer the quests involving the deed... That way you can do them with him in your pocket, or flying solo. But whatever or however you do it: MAKE THE QUESTS AVAILABLE AT ALL TIMES!

What an epic fail...

at least, the quest description should say something about it.

Thanks Turbine, just lost 4 quests and a deed :mad:

I ran around with him for like 30 minutes because I wanted to complete the deed but never got the "cruel traps" one. I thought maybe that one would come later because the warning only says that currently active quests from andreg are cancelled...
Too bad, I also like my deed log clean. Please make the quest available from andreg later, when he is stationary.

I've run around for an hour, killing mobs, re-summoning Andreg, and he still won't give me more quests.

Luckily, I was warned by my kinmates how this worked.

At least it's not just me then :/

I hate this system so easy to miss things.

/Signed

I read the description but I'm pretty sure I only had the 'Continue' button on the quest panel.

Therefore assumed I could just continue but not hand in the quest, a bit like the Doors of Moria ones that are clearly marked expeditiary quests. Now like a lot of people I'm also stuck with this deed.

As someone mentioned please allow the quests to be taken from the stationary NPC.

I ran trough the quests without reading much, and completed the deed.. Luck I guess, with the different locations. (didnt even know you had to be at different ones to get the quests)

Andreg only had one other quest, the goo collection quest, so I made sure I handed it in before the quest with the red warning text. I thought he would come back later with more quests for the deed. I didn't understand that I would lose out like this. I hope they fix it so that everyone can do it. I hate having open deeds in my log (thankful for the tasks for this reason). I actually read all the text, I just didn't understand the game's mechanics. I don't think I should be penalized for it.

I haven't turned it in yet, but he's not giving me anything past ooze.

Same here.

I was actually checking if there were more quests but eventually turned it in.

I was only missing the evil dog ones...

Either delete the deed from my log or let us complete it.

Next time make him give all the quests at once...

Thanks.

Jeez, sorry to hear that that happened :( I had heard in beta that you'd have to have those quests completed to advance (guess I was wrong).

So I'm not sure whether a GM could re bestow the missing ones onto you or not. If not, at least there is always another toon to try it on perhaps :)

(On a side note, signature's for toons 66+ look pretty cool now).

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Originally Posted by Isilmacil

Jeez, sorry to hear that that happened :( I had heard in beta that you'd have to have those quests completed to advance (guess I was wrong).

So I'm not sure whether a GM could re bestow the missing ones onto you or not. If not, at least there is always another toon to try it on perhaps :)

(On a side note, signature's for toons 66+ look pretty cool now).

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There is no positive light to this.

GM's will shut down the ticket the moment you submit it (trust me, I tried).
I have ONE character, and I don't want another.

Now what? I'm stuck with a deed I can't complete?
Let's not even begin to discuss the idiocy of tethering a VIRTUE to the deed. Sure, my honour is 15 atm, but that doesn't change the principle of actually applying a virtue to a questionable deed at best.

Fail Turbine, epic fail.
Fix it please!

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Originally Posted by Linwellin

I read the description but I'm pretty sure I only had the 'Continue' button on the quest panel.

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Indeed. I was aware of the deed and was trying to complete it, I had 2 remaining to do (traps and orcs I couldn't find) when suddenly I have a page saying if I complete the next quest I will be unable to call him any more, and ONLY a continue button...press the only button available and he goes bye-bye along with the whistle.

At best it is unclear and very frustrating now having a deed which I can't complete, I don't think I am to blame, I read the warning and wasn't going to hand in, but when you only have a continue button to press what are you meant to do?

C

I was a bit short on quests while leveling so it would have been nice to have a few more to do but there's nothing I can do about it now. Would prefer it if the deed would disappear though. Not much sense in having an uncompletable deed in my listing.

I ran around all over the area where he's useable for a long time, checking him repeatedly for more quests, and he never had any. I was able to complete the craban quest and the abominable goo (whatever it was called), and that's it, aside from the main one that ended the quest line. I figured that it must continue later on to complete the deed, but apparently not. Ridiculous.

They should give all the quests at once or one after another you should not have to rely on being at just the right spot to get the quest this didn't work with the annuminas one so why the hell did they decide to bring it here and worse still tether a deed to it?

Same thing. tryed a long time at many locations but wont give me new quests. maybe someone has an idea :/

For me I saw that there were more quests that could be done with him and ran around the forrest, trying to start them. At that time didn't know there was a deed for it, and after thinking I had been everywhere and finished all the quests, I got rid of him. Only noticed later the deed and am sorely disappointed won't be able to finish it. (Tracking an old goat 6/7 )

There are some deeds that are not updating properly and thus not allowing for completion. I don't know if this is one of them or not, but it might be.

In any case, they should have it set where there are more than enough quests in an area to finish a deed- maybe not by much, but have enough so that if you miss a few for whatever reason you can still finish it.

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Originally Posted by sirwillow

There are some deeds that are not updating properly and thus not allowing for completion. I don't know if this is one of them or not, but it might be.

In any case, they should have it set where there are more than enough quests in an area to finish a deed- maybe not by much, but have enough so that if you miss a few for whatever reason you can still finish it.

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The deed is specifically there to list the quests needed to complete it. It was added because people in Beta were complaining about not knowing whether they found all the discoverables (which are completely optional and do not affect the division quest deed) or not. I am beginning to regret adding it.

There are only three discoverables, and the quest clearly indicates you cannot complete the discoverables after completing the main quest. This is no different than Annuminas. It also clearly indicates what route to follow (basically bee-line to the quest guide, which crosses the discoverable hotspots for all quests).

I cannot emphasize more to READ THE QUESTS. If you don't, then you miss what the game is all about and miss any guidance and instruction. That's not going to change.

Same with me...i have the deed at 4/7 . i was rushing through the quests quite faat and didnt see that i got a warning that will lose the whistle but i dont care, i have other alts which i stay and read the quest logs!!!

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Originally Posted by Berephon

The deed is specifically there to list the quests needed to complete it. It was added because people in Beta were complaining about not knowing whether they found all the discoverables (which are completely optional and do not affect the division quest deed) or not. I am beginning to regret adding it.

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Really? REALLY?! People were complaining that hidden things in the world were hidden? The amount of handholding that people need in this game is sometimes dumbfounding (Old Forest, quest-tracker, etc.). I do so enjoy it when people ask me where I got my Odiferous title! Also, if you aren't reading the quest content, then why are you playing this game, and why are you skipping part of what you paid 30-50 bucks for? Just to say that you got to 75 firstest and to kill the dragon? Take some time and at least pay respect to the work that was put into this game to create the world for you!

*pant,pant*

(Note that this doesn't apply either to the people who weren't in beta or those who accidentally clicked Continue after reading the warning.)

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Originally Posted by Laivindur

Same with me...i have the deed at 4/7 . i was rushing through the quests quite faat and didnt see that i got a warning that will lose the whistle but i dont care, i have other alts which i stay and read the quest logs!!!

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Fascinating...I was trying to figure out why there were 7 objectives on this. Turns out someone tried turning off the deed, and added a blank objective instead of properly hiding the deed. The deed CAN'T be completed. I'm sending this to OCR for the Known Issues list. Crud.

Edit: There actually 4 discoverables, contrary to my original comment.

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Originally Posted by Berephon

Fascinating...I was trying to figure out why there were 7 objectives on this. Turns out someone tried turning off the deed, and added a blank objective instead of properly hiding the deed. The deed CAN'T be completed. I'm sending this to OCR for the Known Issues list. Crud.

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I have no idea what everyone's problem was.. I completed it just fine.

The annoying part is that once you get to the part of the quest where the warning is you are already unable to get the other quests even if you havent lost the whistle. The ranger just stops offering those quests and you have no other option than give him the whistle. Thus you need to finish all the quests before finding the scout camp.

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Originally Posted by Gunsman

Same thing. tryed a long time at many locations but wont give me new quests. maybe someone has an idea :/

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I had this too and finally gave up on it. I still had the whistle, but apparently turned in the quest that the whistle says you need to have; a better warning when turning that one in would be nice.

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Originally Posted by Namesse

I had this too and finally gave up on it. I still had the whistle, but apparently turned in the quest that the whistle says you need to have; a better warning when turning that one in would be nice.

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That particular quest also has a warning attached.

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Originally Posted by Crell_1

I have no idea what everyone's problem was.. I completed it just fine.

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Ah, heh, yeah, nevermind. Deed is completeable. The old deed is, in fact, turned off (that was the one I was looking at.)

At least in this quest chain there is a clear warning that "if you do not do this or that" etc. I was miffed when the players that didn't do the poor-peoples quest line for the Yule Fest got some extra rewards in the mail a month later, and no way in the world to ever get your hands on those if you chose a different quest line. Frustrating for me, but kudos to Turbine for implementing such a clever Easter egg.
Ever since I've been on the side of caution when choosing my options in Middle Earth. Keep it up devs, this is what makes questing interesting!

Will it be fixed? I am stuck at 4/7 and I wanna get my 5TP and 1 point of Honour....

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Originally Posted by sicofman

Will it be fixed? I am stuck at 4/7 and I wanna get my 5TP and 1 point of Honour....

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I wonder if it's possible to use another person's Andreg to kick start the chain again?

Not tried, can't log in (Snowy still offline) & can't remember where the chain started from :confused:

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Originally Posted by frisp

I wonder if it's possible to use another person's Andreg to kick start the chain again?

Not tried, can't log in (Snowy still offline) & can't remember where the chain started from :confused:

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Well I tried. Can't take qest again from Andreg. :(

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Originally Posted by Berephon

There are only three discoverables, and the quest clearly indicates you cannot complete the discoverables after completing the main quest. This is no different than Annuminas. It also clearly indicates what route to follow (basically bee-line to the quest guide, which crosses the discoverable hotspots for all quests).

I cannot emphasize more to READ THE QUESTS. If you don't, then you miss what the game is all about and miss any guidance and instruction. That's not going to change.

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Some of us did read everything and specifically spent a long time trying to get those quests to come up, while he was still summoned, and they did not. So that is a problem.

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Originally Posted by Berephon

Ah, heh, yeah, nevermind. Deed is completeable. The old deed is, in fact, turned off (that was the one I was looking at.)

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Part of the issue stems from players completing the WRONG quest first. .. If you complete the one that lets him even give you the OPTION to send him away for good, you have to very carefully check MANUALLY for quest rings every few feet.

..

While I appreciate the mobile-quest giver, I had similar issues in Anumminas and I'm sure other people did as well. At least this time we had a list so we knew when we were done looking for quests.

Perhaps the 'NPC check for quests' areas need to be just a little larger, I know multiple people that had problems getting a couple of the quests, even when forcibly dismissing and re-summoning the mob to force the quest check (something which players shouldn't need to do.)

Why not just make quests like this a daily/repeatable so that way if someone missed the warning they aren't totally screwed and you don't get a whole thread of people complaining.

It's not good customer service to say "maybe next time you will read the quest". Just saying...

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Originally Posted by darkalice

It's not good customer service to say "maybe next time you will read the quest". Just saying...

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Yea absolutely :X

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Originally Posted by darkalice

Why not just make quests like this a daily/repeatable so that way if someone missed the warning they aren't totally screwed and you don't get a whole thread of people complaining.

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I fully agree with that. I have completed every single deed ingame apart from some Skirmish and some Ettenmoors deeds and this is totally ruining my Lotro-Life. I got only 3 Quests from him and as in the Deed it is written "Saeradan Amleg and Andreg try to find out..." So I thought the others maybe had some more quests later since my following npc dindt offer me more. Awesome.

I think the overall problem here, Bere, is that the deed is buggy at best.

I charged into the forest with the whistle, I was not in beta, and I had no idea that he gave quests based on area. I was paying attention, and when I finished what I thought was done, I checked my deed log.

I was missing one quest.
But, like others in this thread, all I could do was click continue.

So, I was hosed from the get go on that one.
There are numerous problems with this concept:

#1. You are tethering a virtue to a deed that CAN NOT be completed at ANY time. That's a big no no. All deeds should be able to be completed at any given time. Period. This is mainly concerning CORE deeds, not skirmish/pvp/festival. I'm talking the core deed log here.
And if they must be completed then and you mess up, you should be able to go back to fix it (i.e. scrying pool).

#2. You tethered a deed to a quest giver who has to be in a certain location to activate the quest. Really? How does this make sense? I'm in a forest butchering hound #14 and the dude isn't gonna light up and go: Oh! I need you to kill 10 of these, please.

#3. Arguably the most frustrating thing, because people keep beating others over the head with it. I DID read the quest! I DID take my time! And now, because I wasn't standing in quadrant A section C I am stuck with a deed that has a VIRTUE linked to it indefinately.

That. Doesn't. Work.

I've given you the easy fix, but I'll give you another fix: If you're gonna say, "Sorry, you're screwed."
Then at least have the Ranger give ALL of the quests at the start.

Or, and I think this is a much more practical fix to the issue: Have the stationary NPC give the quests so we can do them as we see fit, at any given time.

This is the 1st deed that has ever been like this. You say you questioned placing it in the game, well you should have. Sorry to say, I think this entire concept is stupid; and had I been in beta, I would have said so the moment I saw it.

As a guy who has ONE main character and prides himself on doing all game content, I cannot fathom not being able to complete this stupid deed.

So, again, please fix it.

Add me to the list of people who simply didn't get one of the quests to be bestowed. I didn't even know there was a deed (must have missed it as I completed a few slayers at that time), run around and completed every Quest that the NPC gave. Turns out somehow I missed one (probably didn't reach whatever small hotspot there was in my search for crebain), and now the Deed cannot be completed.


Please either cancel the Deed if it is not finished, or give us some option to finish it.

Conclusion: The system with a NPC following around giving Quests only in certain small hotspots sucks. Either give them one after another upon completion, or all at once.

To all those saying that all they could do is press continue.

In case you didn't know it, if you press the Escape key on your keyboard, it closes all your UI windows all at once.

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Originally Posted by Berephon

That particular quest also has a warning attached.

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Everyone in our kin has struggled to find all the quests during the "whistle" phase of Gravenwood. In the end, we all moved on without completing the deed. It was very frustrating. Even quests I knew existed were hard to trigger by players following on a few hours later.

It would be a real, real shame (and absolutely frustrating) if we couldn't go back to the original quest bestower and get the whistle again to try and find the remaining quest(s) to complete the deed.

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Originally Posted by Berephon

The deed is specifically there to list the quests needed to complete it. It was added because people in Beta were complaining about not knowing whether they found all the discoverables (which are completely optional and do not affect the division quest deed) or not. I am beginning to regret adding it.

There are only three discoverables, and the quest clearly indicates you cannot complete the discoverables after completing the main quest. This is no different than Annuminas. It also clearly indicates what route to follow (basically bee-line to the quest guide, which crosses the discoverable hotspots for all quests).

I cannot emphasize more to READ THE QUESTS. If you don't, then you miss what the game is all about and miss any guidance and instruction. That's not going to change.

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With all due respect, I read every word of every sentence of the quests. I think the quests in ROI have been the most engaging and absorbing of all the expansions thus far.

But... the dialouge that ends the whistle-quests in the Gravenwood says you should complete any remaining objectives, or else they will be cancelled. I had completed all the quests I had, but I was not aware I had missed one quest --- with all the other deeds blinging off at that time, I didn't see the 7-quest deed (Tracking an Old Goat) until after I had sent Amlan on his way.

:(

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Originally Posted by Berephon

The deed is specifically there to list the quests needed to complete it. It was added because people in Beta were complaining about not knowing whether they found all the discoverables (which are completely optional and do not affect the division quest deed) or not. I am beginning to regret adding it.

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Please dont regret it. I love that there's something telling me if I missed something. I'd just not like it if it was telling me I missed something and I couldnt go back and do it. The deed would be laughing at me the rest of my lotro gaming career.

As others have said, once you reach the point where the warning kicks in, it's really hard (or even impossible) to complete the deed. I was at 6/7 (or better 5/7, as pressing "continue" at the warning completes one more) and tried for half an hour to find the missing quest without success before giving up and continuing.
Besides the warning only says current quests would be canceled, not that the missing quests will never come up anymore.

Up to now I only know of one deed that would stay in your log but never be completed, which was the mirkwood intro slayer deed.
Iirc that one was changed soon after release because there shouldn't be open deeds in the log that are no longer completable!
Please add the whistle or the quests to stationary Andreg or at least make it a hidden deed that only shows up after completion, might help to forget this failure.

Anyways, this was about the worst thing for me in RoI, so all in all a great addon so far!

I went into this deed knowing about the bug issues and the one-chance only deed opportunity but still wasn't able to get the quests to spawn. I tried for hours and put in a ticket, which got replied to with a copy and pasted "We are not allowed to give quest advice" response from the GM. Still can't complete the deed. Ridiculous.

Agreed. Allow Amlag to bestow all the quests as a stationary mob. Having his 'I detect you need to do a quest' circle be so small means that even LOOKING for the quests for half an hour and not getting them, I finally just gave up in frustration, 6/7 completed.

WTG Turbine :/

I had picked up the whistle while riding around exploring Dunland (haven't even been to the gap yet). I did even read the quest chain on it, just removed the ring and rode off to the next area. The next day I had noticed the whistle and read the quest for it so I went to the Rohirrim camp and summoned him. Got two quests from him (the goo and the xploring one). Actually I did the one that ended the chain first, but I read that it would he would be unavailable so I didn't turn that one in. I never read the deed at all (whether we were fighting or I was chatting and then fighting I have no clue, but it is done now). I then did the second quest (the goo one) but still didn't turn in the first. I had remembered Annuminas and thought he might get triggered by other things. Then I walked all over the forest with him (or at least i thought i did) and we killed several mobs but he didn't come up with any more quests. I went back to the Rohirrim camp and turned in the ending quests there (so my whistle is gone too). Until I read this thread I had no clue that he actually had more quests. I am really overall pleased with ROI so far, but I cannot understand why he didn't just give all the quests at once. In Annuminas the paths are much more straight line than in the forest where you can go in any direction virtually. This is one thing I am very disappointed in.

Manually running around with Andreg stuck on the "continue" quest problem

just found Cruel Traps at 81.6s, 12.0w

edit: and Hunting the Pack at 83.0s, 13.8w

edit: got deed

I'd like to see the quest line get added to a Reflecting Pool. Would be easy to implement.

I was unable to finish the Deed, took my time... got off track abit due to cutting wood while I was running around with the ranger. Didn't realize you had to stay so close to the path.

Ended with 5/7.

For me this is big fail. You see warning, but there is no way to check there is seven quests if u will not read forum. Deed have only 7 quests names in it, no mantion about Andreg. Becouse i recived 2 quests i assumed other I will recive from someone else or later. I clicked continue button absolutly sure i done all. Later i find out i stucked with deed i will never complete. Big fail Turbine, big fail.

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Originally Posted by darkalice

Why not just make quests like this a daily/repeatable so that way if someone missed the warning they aren't totally screwed and you don't get a whole thread of people complaining.

It's not good customer service to say "maybe next time you will read the quest". Just saying...

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It's not good sportsmanship to say "I lost the game, so the game must be broken and needs to be fixed" either. Just saying...

I get that there was some confusion over the fact that there is a deed attached. However, there is a deed alert that procs when you do your first quest in the deed. I also get that there was some confusion over having only a 'continue' button. However, by this time, we've seen around 70 levels of content like this, where there's 'only' a continue button (hello escort quests?). There's also a little red X in the top corner of the box, just like there always is, for if you don't want to continue. The deed alert alone is enough for me to think twice before plowing ahead through quests with red letters that say 'warning, if you continue, you don't get to complete this stuff later.'

This deed practically screams, "PROCEED WITH CAUTION!"

I know that people are upset. I would be upset too, had it happened to me (it didn't because I was very careful - I spent a good, long time trying to proc all the quests listed in the deed before I continued), but I would be upset with myself over having not paid enough attention, rather than at the game maker, especially with all the warnings given all over the place.

Add me to the list of people who were misled by the deed description saying that we work with Andreg, Amlan and Saeradan, and so didn't think anything of completing the whistle quest when it seemed that he had no more quests for me.

The second objective of the whistle quest says 'Andreg has accompanied you for some distance. Now the time has come to part ways'. No indication that you should have finished the deed.

A Grave Corruption says 'Perhaps we should gather some as we journey back to him', creating the impression that Andreg's quest is simply to meet up with Saeradan, not to explore the wood that very minute.

Eyes in the Forest says 'Andreg is preparing to part company from you'. No indication that you will not see him again, not that you have any reason to believe that this will prevent you from completing the deed.

I do not appreciate, Berephon, the insinuation that you made that I must not have read the quests for me to be having a problem. I have written scores or possibly hundreds of bug reports for typological, grammatical and lore errors, and have read every bit of text in the game, aside from the Ettenmoors.

This

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Originally Posted by Berephon

There are only three discoverables, and the quest clearly indicates you cannot complete the discoverables after completing the main quest.

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may be true, but there is nothing indicating that the deed is made up of any quests that are 'discoverable'. In fact, the quest only indicates that you will not be able to summon Andreg again, or complete any quests that the companion version of him bestows. If one reads the deed description, one would believe that you work with three rangers to complete it, not solely Andreg.
Nor does everyone play with the quest guide, or run in a straight path directly towards the quest objective, turning aside for neither monster nor node.

Isharra, this is not a game in which it is possible to lose, in that sense. Have you ever failed a quest and not been able to retry it? Nor should there be a deed to complete quests that works so.

Please fix this deed somehow, perhaps by adding a banner at the scout camp like the one in the Dunbog.

Another disgruntled. I'll admit, I didn't read the quest text closely when I started out. I used to read quest text closely, but then the quest tracker was introduced, and over time, my quest reading has diminished. It's emergent behaviour, and if, on the one hand, emergent behaviour results in changes to instances to prevent unexpected player activity, it should also result in changes to quests, rather than punishment because the players didn't do what you thought.

I initially followed the path. It's what paths are there for, right? Not according to Belephron's quote above: I should have gone in a straight line, cross-country. I realised that quests were popping up unexpectedly, so I tried killing a couple of hounds. No quest appeared, so I disregarded them in future. Locking the quests to specific coordinates just punishes people who explore away from the specific path of travel that has been defined. Why not have the quest activate when anything of the right species is killed (or better yet, comes into range?).

I got to the rangers camp with some quests done, and some not done. I read the warning, and went back to complete the quests I hadn't done. At this point it was impossible to see if I activated a new quest, because Andreg had a permanent quest completion ring over his head. As it happened, I lucked into the traps (yay! Not. Rooted for a minute, with no mobs around, so it was tedious, not even risky), and rechecked Andreg. But I've no idea whether I even went to the coordinates for the Hound quest, due to a complete lack of visual cues.

I didn't even spot the deed. My Gravenwood Exploration deed went to the bottom of my Deed Log (where quests usually go, until I relog). The Old Goat deed went to the middle of the log, where I didn't even spot it until after I'd browsed the forums, and saw other people complaining.

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Originally Posted by Isharra

It's not good sportsmanship to say "I lost the game, so the game must be broken and needs to be fixed" either. Just saying...

I get that there was some confusion over the fact that there is a deed attached. However, there is a deed alert that procs when you do your first quest in the deed. I also get that there was some confusion over having only a 'continue' button. However, by this time, we've seen around 70 levels of content like this, where there's 'only' a continue button (hello escort quests?). There's also a little red X in the top corner of the box, just like there always is, for if you don't want to continue. The deed alert alone is enough for me to think twice before plowing ahead through quests with red letters that say 'warning, if you continue, you don't get to complete this stuff later.'

This deed practically screams, "PROCEED WITH CAUTION!"

I know that people are upset. I would be upset too, had it happened to me (it didn't because I was very careful - I spent a good, long time trying to proc all the quests listed in the deed before I continued), but I would be upset with myself over having not paid enough attention, rather than at the game maker, especially with all the warnings given all over the place.

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That's all good and well that you took your time, but my point is simple:

There has never been a deed you could not go back and complete at any given time.
The fact that this 'quest' IS a deed screams that you are not going to be blocked from completing said deed.
I don't care if the quest says otherwise: the bottom line is this is a deed.
Since it's a deed, you should be able to complete it at any given time.

Again, this concept is stupid. There's no other way of putting it. It is downright idiotic.
So, either state, clearly-mind you, that you are NOT going to fix it (developer).

OR (and more preferably) -- Follow our suggestion and make the quests available by the stationary NPC to be completed at our leisure.

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Originally Posted by Berephon

The deed is specifically there to list the quests needed to complete it. It was added because people in Beta were complaining about not knowing whether they found all the discoverables (which are completely optional and do not affect the division quest deed) or not. I am beginning to regret adding it.

There are only three discoverables, and the quest clearly indicates you cannot complete the discoverables after completing the main quest. This is no different than Annuminas. It also clearly indicates what route to follow (basically bee-line to the quest guide, which crosses the discoverable hotspots for all quests).

I cannot emphasize more to READ THE QUESTS. If you don't, then you miss what the game is all about and miss any guidance and instruction. That's not going to change.

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I read the quests. No where did it say that the guy offers more quests based on what area of the zone you're in. Also, no where does it say the Tracking an Old Goat deed is at all associate with the quests in question. For me, the guy offered me 2 quests, I did them, and then when it said I will lose all quests when I click finish, I figured I was done, that it was just the 2. Only later, when I realized I didn't know what that deed was, did I put 2 and 2 together. by then it was too late.

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Originally Posted by Berephon

The deed is specifically there to list the quests needed to complete it. It was added because people in Beta were complaining about not knowing whether they found all the discoverables (which are completely optional and do not affect the division quest deed) or not. I am beginning to regret adding it.

There are only three discoverables, and the quest clearly indicates you cannot complete the discoverables after completing the main quest. This is no different than Annuminas. It also clearly indicates what route to follow (basically bee-line to the quest guide, which crosses the discoverable hotspots for all quests).

I cannot emphasize more to READ THE QUESTS. If you don't, then you miss what the game is all about and miss any guidance and instruction. That's not going to change.

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With all due respect, I DID READ THE QUEST TEXT. I completed the quests he had already given me, and after playing for another day, he didn't give me any other quests, so I figured I had to complete that quest with him to proceed.

The problem is not with me not reading the quest text. It's that the warning is unclear and ambiguous.

I've been a lifer since the beginning. I'm also a completionist, which is a significant part of my end game. Nothing before in this game has given me the desire to shut the game down and look elsewhere for my entertainment, but your response is close to doing so.

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Originally Posted by Isharra

It's not good sportsmanship to say "I lost the game, so the game must be broken and needs to be fixed" either. Just saying...

I get that there was some confusion over the fact that there is a deed attached. However, there is a deed alert that procs when you do your first quest in the deed. I also get that there was some confusion over having only a 'continue' button. However, by this time, we've seen around 70 levels of content like this, where there's 'only' a continue button (hello escort quests?). There's also a little red X in the top corner of the box, just like there always is, for if you don't want to continue. The deed alert alone is enough for me to think twice before plowing ahead through quests with red letters that say 'warning, if you continue, you don't get to complete this stuff later.'

This deed practically screams, "PROCEED WITH CAUTION!"

I know that people are upset. I would be upset too, had it happened to me (it didn't because I was very careful - I spent a good, long time trying to proc all the quests listed in the deed before I continued), but I would be upset with myself over having not paid enough attention, rather than at the game maker, especially with all the warnings given all over the place.

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1. I didn't lose the game
2. I am paying for this game so I have the right to give my input on what bad customer service is, it has nothing to do with being a bad sport. I love this game and I would just like to be able to complete all the deeds even if I didn't fine tooth comb a quest paragraph. Bottom line is no deed (except for seasonal things which you will eventually be able to complete again) should have an objective that isn't able to be completed after a quest is over. Just saying... ;)
3. I wish that when a customer yelled at me at my job that someone else would say "oh don't yell at her that is bad sportsmanship" haha

Heck I don't care if they put a fix in the turbine store just as long as it lets me finish this deed.

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Originally Posted by Berephon

That particular quest also has a warning attached.

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From a stand point of never having done the quest before and not getting the Cruel traps quest appearing when I expected it and wondering if I needed to click continue, I would say the warning is poorly written, the implementation of the quest poorly handled and your response poorly considered :(

Until this quest I had nothing bad to say about RoI at all, I've enjoyed the whole experience leveling to 71 so far, so this quest is a big downer. Someone at Turbine needs to re-consider this quest and allow people who've not finished it because of the poor quest design to complete it. Not that I expect it to happen.

I ran around with the guy for an hour, completed all quests he gave me in that hour, and now I'm stuck w/ 5/7 on the deed. This is like the mirkwood landing all over again. There I had an open deed to kill 100 mobs in the landing instance for a long time until they allowed regular mirk mobs to count towards deed.

it's annoying that deeds are gated by this...

but otherwise, I don't really care. I'll get it done on one of my many alts :)

This is very annoying.

I read the warning and it said that by finishing the quest any active quests he gave you would be cancelled. Well, I didn't have any active quests so I turned it in and now can't complete the deed. I didn't see anything about quests that we haven't even received yet. It might have been there, but it definitely wasn't clear.

Sure, I should have read the entire quest chain more closely; but that warning is horrible. Please fix it.

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Originally Posted by Berephon

The deed is specifically there to list the quests needed to complete it.

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And since when are we expected to use the deed log to track quests? That's what the quest log is for. Why wasn't this handled like, say, every other quest chain we've ever done?

I must say that I loved the idea of exploring a forest and stumbling upon quests as I went, rather than the static method of picking them all up at a camp, but the quests only activating in such small areas (and not to mention, appearantly being unacquirable after finishing the initial quest?) is certainly problematic. The idea is nice, acquiring quests on the go, but it could have been executed a little better. Make it easier to get the quests, make it possible to complete them even after the initial run, and you have a great quest-concept here.

What is even more silly, that if you do not complete that deed you lose a chance to increase your Honor virtue. I mean come on, at least do not have a deed like that stoping you from getting a virtue pt.

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Originally Posted by Yosoff

This is very annoying.

I read the warning and it said that by finishing the quest any active quests he gave you would be cancelled. Well, I didn't have any active quests so I turned it in and now can't complete the deed. I didn't see anything about quests that we haven't even received yet. It might have been there, but it definitely wasn't clear.

Sure, I should have read the entire quest chain more closely; but that warning is horrible. Please fix it.

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Yeah, I saw the warning, completed the active quests I had from him, saw he had no others, and turned it in. (3/7, I found out last night)

We have had SO many new deeds with this expansion. It's nice, and I've received and completed so many due to normal gameplay and mob killing. When a new deed opens, I'm not clicking on that little icon to check and see what the details of it are -- so I was unaware of this particular deed until I came across this thread yesterday. Safe to say I'm disappointed I can't complete this on my main, but I'm aware of it now for my alts.

Hopefully the devs will have a change of heart and allow the whistle, or the guy, to become available again for those who would like to finish the deed. (Also, that's a loss of quite a bit of XP, and it seems you need to pretty much do everything [with bonus xp, etc!] to come out even -- not run out of quests to finish 75).

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Originally Posted by EmmeraldFireFox

What is even more silly, that if you do not complete that deed you lose a chance to increase your Honor virtue. I mean come on, at least do not have a deed like that stoping you from getting a virtue pt.

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And yet there are plenty of other options for raising Honour. Including, yes, the store.

Again, just because something is available does not require you to obtain it.

reminds me of that test they gave in 7th grade. the first instruction was to put your pencil down and not take the "test."

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Originally Posted by RillosTheElf

Okay, so I got Andreg's whistle, and followed the first quests he gave me, which ultimately took me to the Rohirim camp and I powered through the quest completions, in my eagerness to get to 75. Now I look at the deed mentioned in the title, and see 4 quests I need to complete for it. I asked others and they said Andreg gives them in certain locations while he's summoned, like the ones in Annuminas. My whistle has gone, how do I complete the deed and get the virtue! Others say it warned that you wouldn't be able to complete them if you finished the quest at the Rohirim camp, what's the point in that!

Highly frustrating, I'm sure enough people will have raced through this part, there's only so much quest reading I can do with all the quests given in RoI, especially when half of them have stupid objectives like... "collect slug meat".

In my opinion you should be able to complete the quests regardless, why do we have the multi-layer dynamic thing? Let me go back to the previous layer and complete them! A lot of people are complaining that he doesn't give the quests if you're in the right location with him summoned anyway.

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I had no problems with this. Just running from point A to point B gave me every quest needed. Also, when you first unlock the deed, it pops up in your alerts. If its that important to you to be able to complete a deed, you should at the very least check them as they unlock so you know what to do. And while i can understand the desire to occasionally skip through quest bestowal text, the bright red bolded text that says "Complete all other quests in the area before turning in this one" was rather obvious. And tbh, there really needs to be more deeds like this. Having completed a deed should signify that you've done something special that's not easy to do. If everyone can complete the deed without even trying, its not much of an accomplishment. Turbine never intended for deeds to be something that people easily grinded for tp or merely to clean out their deed logs.

When I first came to this quest chain, someone else was running around with Andreg. I remember asking them to stop moving so I could click on his guy and get the quests. This was someone else's Andreg.

Are you sure you can't duo with someone who hasn't done the chain and pick up the quests as they unlock them? I know for a fact I have been able to get quests from someone else's NPC.

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Originally Posted by Fillur

Manually running around with Andreg stuck on the "continue" quest problem

just found Cruel Traps at 81.6s, 12.0w

edit: and Hunting the Pack at 83.0s, 13.8w

edit: got deed

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THANK YOU.

I was stuck on "Cruel Traps" after running around the areas between the two camps. I had turned in everything except "A Dark and Lonely Forest" - I saw the warning and DID NOT advance the quest (hit ESC on the keyboard, DO NOT click continue and dismiss Andreg permanently). Once I went to the proper coordinates (listed above) the quest popped and I was able to accept it and complete it.

So for anyone trying to finish the deed, if you have not yet dismissed Andreg permanently, you should still be able to pick up any of the discoverable quests. Be warned, dismissing Andreg is NOT the final quest stage, so please do not complacent if deed completion matters to you.

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Originally Posted by Berephon

I cannot emphasize more to READ THE QUESTS. If you don't, then you miss what the game is all about and miss any guidance and instruction. That's not going to change.

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Or you could start offering voice packs...

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Originally Posted by TheCorbinator

There has never been a deed you could not go back and complete at any given time.
The fact that this 'quest' IS a deed screams that you are not going to be blocked from completing said deed.
I don't care if the quest says otherwise: the bottom line is this is a deed.
Since it's a deed, you should be able to complete it at any given time.

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You obviously don't remember or weren't around for the Forgotten Lore event. The turn-ins were only accepted for a certain period of time, and many people missed out on the highest-tier title because it was a daily and required a certain amount of days of attention in a small amount of time.

There were folks who were angry about that as well, but they were able to get over it soon enough. Some people are going to have enough time/get lucky/pay attention to gain limited-time achievements in the game, just like real life. You go too quickly, you miss opportunities. There is no reason to have any sense of entitlement when the ability was given to you all along to fully complete the deed. However, if a bug is involved, you are right to expect it to be rectified.

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Originally Posted by Dyslex

You obviously don't remember or weren't around for the Forgotten Lore event. The turn-ins were only accepted for a certain period of time, and many people missed out on the highest-tier title because it was a daily and required a certain amount of days of attention in a small amount of time.

There were folks who were angry about that as well, but they were able to get over it soon enough. Some people are going to have enough time/get lucky/pay attention to gain limited-time achievements in the game, just like real life. You go too quickly, you miss opportunities. There is no reason to have any sense of entitlement when the ability was given to you all along to fully complete the deed. However, if a bug is involved, you are right to expect it to be rectified.

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I would think this is slightly different than a one time special event.

I read the quest, it told me other active quests with Andreg would be cancelled. I then completed the couple of quests I had with him. After looking at the deed, I figured I might get the rest of those quests with Saeradan or something. After completing the quests I had with Andreg, I read the red words again telling me not to turn this in until I was done with Andreg. Well, I had no reason not to believe I was done with him after doing the quests he gave me so I turned it in and now I'm locked out of that deed.

Those that have done it will continue to act like the rest of us can't read, but the fact of the matter is the wording was ambiguous. It should at least tell you to explore with Andreg before finishing... or at least the deed itself should say that all of these quests come from Andreg.

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Originally Posted by thunderchickn

I would think this is slightly different than a one time special event.

I read the quest, it told me other active quests with Andreg would be cancelled. I then completed the couple of quests I had with him. After looking at the deed, I figured I might get the rest of those quests with Saeradan or something. After completing the quests I had with Andreg, I read the red words again telling me not to turn this in until I was done with Andreg. Well, I had no reason not to believe I was done with him after doing the quests he gave me so I turned it in and now I'm locked out of that deed.

Those that have done it will continue to act like the rest of us can't read, but the fact of the matter is the wording was ambiguous. It should at least tell you to explore with Andreg before finishing... or at least the deed itself should say that all of these quests come from Andreg.

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I can see where you're coming from. I was mostly addressing the idea that every deed should be available to everyone all the time. I personally haven't encountered the issue yet, but it sounds like more direction is needed so that you know exactly when all of the steps have been completed (not exactly telling you where they are or who they're with, but maybe a dialog box telling you that you have X number of steps left, then click Continue or Cancel). I don't believe that people should be able to go back and do the quests if doing so conflicts with the narrative, however.

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Originally Posted by thunderchickn

I would think this is slightly different than a one time special event.

I read the quest, it told me other active quests with Andreg would be cancelled. I then completed the couple of quests I had with him. After looking at the deed, I figured I might get the rest of those quests with Saeradan or something. After completing the quests I had with Andreg, I read the red words again telling me not to turn this in until I was done with Andreg. Well, I had no reason not to believe I was done with him after doing the quests he gave me so I turned it in and now I'm locked out of that deed.

Those that have done it will continue to act like the rest of us can't read, but the fact of the matter is the wording was ambiguous. It should at least tell you to explore with Andreg before finishing... or at least the deed itself should say that all of these quests come from Andreg.

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Exactly right. +rep

There should have been a master quest that updated with 1/7, 2/7, etc. instead of a deed to track the progress (similar to the Theodred book quest chain by the Falcon Clan camp). The use of a deed to track a quest chain is counter-intuitive to everything we've done for questing in the game for the last 4 years.

I just messed this deed up :(

Yes, I saw the DO NOT ADVANCE THIS QUEST OR YOU WILL FAIL THIS QUEST CHAIN warning message but my immediate interpretation was that I would fail if I talked to Saerdan. Yes, I clicked the "Continue" button because there was no obvious "No, don't mess this up for me" button. Yes, I realise that the best course of action would've been to close the quest window or hit ESC... Now it's forever broken. Silly me.

I think this quest chain is broken in its fail condition. I mean... Yes, I did read the warning message in read but still managed to misinterpret it. I had skimmed through this thread and was fully aware of the problem but still managed to mess it up. I know now how to do it now for all my non-main characters ...

I'm actually quite upset with the game right now, something I've not been during the 2+ years I've been playing.

P.s. anyone replying with any form of "if you're stupid enough to hit the button it's your own fault" should be slapped with a cold fish for being insensitive, inconsiderate and narrow minded gloaters.

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Originally Posted by thunderchickn

I would think this is slightly different than a one time special event.

I read the quest, it told me other active quests with Andreg would be cancelled. I then completed the couple of quests I had with him. After looking at the deed, I figured I might get the rest of those quests with Saeradan or something. After completing the quests I had with Andreg, I read the red words again telling me not to turn this in until I was done with Andreg. Well, I had no reason not to believe I was done with him after doing the quests he gave me so I turned it in and now I'm locked out of that deed.

Those that have done it will continue to act like the rest of us can't read, but the fact of the matter is the wording was ambiguous. It should at least tell you to explore with Andreg before finishing... or at least the deed itself should say that all of these quests come from Andreg.

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Exactly. That's what I thought as well. Good summary and points.

And with the way we all have inventory issues with the sheer amount of loot and stuff we get.. I'm sure everyone is itching to get rid of the whistle by completing the quest line.

I agree with the OP and most of the people on this thread.

This same fail mechanism was used for the summonable guy in Annuminas. Contrary to the blue name's dismissive claim, I READ EVERY WORD ON EVERY QUEST. But the problem is identical to this one :

Once the summoned guy's main objective is completed, you get that golden halo above his name so you can't see any other quests becoming available.. The ONLY way to know there is a side quest available is to repeatedly talk to him every few meters while you explore the entire area. If you aren't in the exact right spot where the side quests are, you won't get the chance to accept them.

So the problem is the DESIGN. I'll list them here :

1. Quests are not all offered upfront. This is such a simple solution and would avoid all this drama.
2. Quests are location sensitive. If you missed the quest area by 1 meter, you will never know there is an optional quest there.
3. There is NO WAY for the players to know how many quests in total the npc offers. And no the deed log does not help because often times in other places the same npc will show up later offering additional quests. And I bet this is why a lot of people get confused thinking this guy might be standing at the next camp down the quest chain, not as a summonable, but as a regular npc offering more quests.
4. Once the main objective of the NPC is completed, that gold halo on his head prevents the players from seeing the presence of any other new quests if they wander through a valid area.
5. Even if a player (like me) reads every word of the description, people can still incorrectly interpret them. Turbine can allow these NPCs be summoned again so they can be completed. Turbine has a choice. Players do not.

6. Last but not least, PEOPLE MAKE MISTAKES. Turbine needs to decide whether it is in their best business interest to make their product forgiving, or take an unrealistic and petty stance against mistakes. If Turbine, in all their wisdom admitted that Radiance was a blunder, why expect their player base to be somehow wiser or less prone to errors? The only reasonable recourse is to go back and fix these NPCs in Dunland and Annuminas.

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Originally Posted by Dyslex

You obviously don't remember or weren't around for the Forgotten Lore event. The turn-ins were only accepted for a certain period of time, and many people missed out on the highest-tier title because it was a daily and required a certain amount of days of attention in a small amount of time.

There were folks who were angry about that as well, but they were able to get over it soon enough. Some people are going to have enough time/get lucky/pay attention to gain limited-time achievements in the game, just like real life. You go too quickly, you miss opportunities. There is no reason to have any sense of entitlement when the ability was given to you all along to fully complete the deed. However, if a bug is involved, you are right to expect it to be rectified.

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On the contrary, I have the highest title for that event.

My point is that event did NOT HAVE A VIRTUE TIED TO IT!

Furthermore, that event is GONE from your log the moment you complete it, therefore it doesn't haunt you.
And, on the off chance that it isn't, it's just a title.

This deed has a virtue tethered to it.
This deed is being used as a quest tracker for a questionable NPC at best.

Again: This concept is stupid.
I don't care if YOU finished the deed or if anyone else finished the deed. Good friggin job. Well done. Get off this forum thread.

This thread is to show that there are displeased people with the concept being presented; and that there is a serious problem with the execution of this quest/deed combo. We have provided an easy fix, and we want to see that fix.

I don't have the luxury of an alt, and I don't want the luxury of an alt.
This isn't an 'event' deed. It's a normal virtue deed, therefore it MUST BE ALLOWED TO BE COMPLETED AT ALL TIMES!

At a minimum, when you first get the quest to go to the Rohirrim Camp/first summon Andreg, he should say something like "During our journey, I will be asking you to help me with several tasks which I will discuss along the way. . . " If that were the case, then the quips about "read the quest" would at least have some foundation to them. There is nothing inherent in the first quest text that he is going to be giving you a second quest. There is nothing inherent in the second that he will be giving you a third. And there is certainly nothing that the quests will be given piecemeal on the way as opposed to at a fixed point or even that they will all be given by Andreg. Perhaps if all the people saying "read the quest" would actually read the quest, these shortcomings would become more clear. :)

Also until you complete one of the quests, the deed does not appear. So if it takes awhile to kill the hounds for example, you could be well past the point you need to be at to get the crabain or traps quest. So you won't have that quest and it won't be clear what you need to do to get the quest. Go talk to someone else in the camp? Someone else somewhere else in the Gravenwood? The answer is to head back to Andreg's camp's and retrace your steps, but I defy anyone to quote anything from the quest dialogue which hints at this. The only reason people are completing this quest is becasue a) they ran into this problem in beta; b) they've been given a head's up to be extra careful; or c) blind luck.

It is perfectly understandable how someone who came across the quest/deed for the first time and was unaware of these problems would miss something. If it were some oddball quest that wouldn't be a problem. When it is tied to a virtue, that is inexcusable.

Now missing one quest for the deed because I did not see there was a deed till after I completed the final quest, I think the new deed message never even appeared or was drowned out by other messages.

Even so I ran around for a good while after completing the other quests but the major problem was that once I completed the main quest there was a permanent quest-ring on the NPC and you couldnt see if a new quest was accessible unless you clicked on the npc and checked...very cumbersome.

The idea of not being able to complete this deed really kills me, please add a way of being able to complete it after all or remove the deed for all I care, now it is just a constant reminder of a few moments of not paying attention to every detail.

Yup. I'm missing just one as well. The dog one I think.

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Originally Posted by darkalice

It's not good customer service to say "maybe next time you will read the quest". Just saying...

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Berephon is not in customer service. I appreciate the fact that some developers actually tell you like it is.

Everything in the world does not have to be idiot-proof. People need to read things before diving into the action. There's a reason for all the text in those quests.

most of my kinnies report that the deed does not give a warning when it opens up, those that did complete it report they didnt know there was a deed until after they finished it and got the deed completed messages.

If you are going to make a deed that you only have chance of completing once, at least make sure people know it exists, I think this is bugged.

As a developer seems to be reading this thread, let me give my perspective on this as someone who saw trouble coming.

I bugged this in beta and said it was a really bad idea -- the reactions here confirm just about what I expected.

Now here's my story, which I think is even more telling:

In beta, all I knew was the deed had failed to complete. There were really no clear warnings as to what had gone wrong, but I knew something had.

So, on live, I knew I had to be very, very careful and make sure I didn't end up with a locked deed. So I followed everything super carefully.

The quest said to stick to this path, so by God, I stuck to the path. And therein was the problem -- or one of several problems -- with the quest.

I shifted myself into walk mode and traversed the course a number of times. Finally, I happened to come so close to the endpoint -- even thought maybe it was a quest ring I should be aiming for -- that the concluding dialogue box popped up.

I was able to cancel out and go back and start the quest over but it still took several hours of my cautiously creeping about and begging for help in glff to find out that in fact, you don't stay on the path, and you just wander all over heck and gone hoping and hoping that a quest will finally activate.

Also, it is NOT at all certain from the deed that all of the steps are activated by the whistle. Having been through beta, I guessed that they were but after long hours of wandering I began to wonder if only SOME of them were activated by the whistle.

Fortunately, I stuck with it and got it done, but it was only because I knew to expect trouble.

Not everyone has the advantage that I did of getting a warning preview.

All in all, this is definitely a deed that needs a workaround in the next patch.

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Originally Posted by Berephon

The deed is specifically there to list the quests needed to complete it. It was added because people in Beta were complaining about not knowing whether they found all the discoverables (which are completely optional and do not affect the division quest deed) or not. I am beginning to regret adding it.

There are only three discoverables, and the quest clearly indicates you cannot complete the discoverables after completing the main quest. This is no different than Annuminas. It also clearly indicates what route to follow (basically bee-line to the quest guide, which crosses the discoverable hotspots for all quests).

I cannot emphasize more to READ THE QUESTS. If you don't, then you miss what the game is all about and miss any guidance and instruction. That's not going to change.

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I am reading the quests. That is exactly what brought me here. I saw this thread before I actually knew what it meant and I have been working on this quest chain for almost the past hour.

Right now I'm sitting at 4/7 because I didn't bee-line it to the quest guide. I read the quests and go about completing them. Going after the mobs I needed for the quest objectives lead me off the path suggested by Andreg.

I'll finish the deed, but it's really frustrating right now having to wander around the Gravenwood trying to figure where I should have gone. I'm probably going to end up spending a good chunk of my night just trying to complete this.

Completed two quests Andreg gave me. One was about scouting a road, the other about picking up filth or something from the ground.

Summoned him at the Rhohan camp, handed in top quest and he disappears, whistle disappears and it says the second quest failed.

Huh?

Cause I really got the time to waste reading quests about riding up a road and picking up filth.

I read every single quest and I followed all the questlines. Still I managed to skip one of the required quests for this, even though I walked through whole Gravenwood because I loved the design and the feeling in it. Andreg was probably stuck somewhere in the back and didn't give me that one quest. The deed name isn't self explanatory, and the warning is just not good enough.

FIX IT!
(since we know you can fix things you want swiftly *corpses*)

My question is, why not just have him appear at the Rohirrim Scout-camp? It's not as if he's gone from Middle-Earth at this point. Having a character teleport in and teleport out unlike every other character in the game seems to be a bit of an odd design choice, in my opinion.


Also, doesn't missing this prevent gaining THREE deeds (Dunland quest deed, Gravenwood quest deed, Old Goat Deed), not just the goat? That's a big loss for misreading a quest or having a bit of an itchy trigger finger, and a unique loss unlike even the limited time quests of old.

Edit: One more thing, it's a bit more ridiculous given how you obtain the quests involved in Tracking the old goat: you wander around the gravenwood and hope you stumble across a new quest. Given that the red text doesn't actually explain how you obtain the Old Goat quests or that you're supposed to find them completely on your own (hoping you'll find an area where Andreg gets a quest-ring) there's no reasonable way to assume the majority of players will be lucky enough or even have him out at the proper time (my initial instinct was to ride my horse to the scout camp, which would mean no quests would appear at all had I done that). It is definitely NOT a bee-line to the end goal (I was heading straight there and encountered three of the 7 quests rings).


Now, it is a unique idea for a quest series, and ROI has plenty of other unique ideas that work well, I just don't think this works out in the end. If it was a single quest or two unrelated to anything else/any larger deeds (especially not three) then it wouldn't be a big problem, just one of those legendary things experienced players warn new players about. However, it just seems to not have worked out as planned, and that's the way things are sometimes. Having an alternative solution (placing Andreg in the scout-camp afterwards for instance) would be very much appreciated.

I'm not really pleased about this either. I read the quest text, I saw the warning... but from what I remember it doesn't make it clear that simply accepting the next quest will cancel the others, it says something like "progressing this quest" or "advancing this quest".

What does that even mean exactly? What sort of "progress" or "advancement"? Accepting it? Completing it? Doing something else he's going to ask of me? It's totally unclear.

I thought I could accept this, do the others and then finish this one. I really wasn't under the impression that clicking accept would cancel everything else instantaneously. Plus I think it's fair to say that we're pretty programmed to just click accept for 99.9% of quests -- you have to give people some more slack when changing that formula.

It takes me so damn long to get anywhere in this game because I do READ the quests. I do not feel this is worded as clearly as Turbine does, apparently. Maybe I'm just nuts.

It seems like it'd be smarter to just not even give us the option to end the quest line until the rest of it is done.

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I don't even care necessarily that I can't get the Old Goat Deed. I can get being penalized for missing it, I have other characters. I think this is misleading and it should be fixed, but to me something is more important:

There's also a deed for getting all of the quests in the Gravenwood AND a deed for doing all of the quests in the areas in Dunland. Are these affected by that too? If that's the case... I click one button and then I can't get ANY of that? Come on.

I hope that's not true, but I don't personally know yet. Maybe someone else knows.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by semjaza

I don't even care necessarily that I can't get the Old Goat Deed. I can get being penalized for missing it, I have other characters. I think this is misleading and it should be fixed, but to me something is more important:

There's also a deed for getting all of the quests in the Gravenwood AND a deed for doing all of the quests in the areas in Dunland. Are these affected by that too? If that's the case... I click one button and then I can't get ANY of that? Come on.

I hope that's not true, but I don't personally know yet. Maybe someone else knows.

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This should answer any concerns you have:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Berephon

The deed is specifically there to list the quests needed to complete it. It was added because people in Beta were complaining about not knowing whether they found all the discoverables (which are completely optional and do not affect the division quest deed) or not.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by 0rdinary0wl

This should answer any concerns you have:

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Thank you, that does help with that portion. I appreciate it.

I also have to agree that there is definitely an issue with this deed. While running around with Andreg, I read all the quests I got from him, and I noticed the deed when it first popped up. The problem here is that I never realized that all the other quests for the deed only come from Andreg before you complete the quest that dismisses him. I saw and understood the warning on the quest, but I assumed the rest of the deed quests would take place later in the quest chronology. There is nothing in the deed or quests that I ever saw that warns of this. Heck, the first quest in the deed list is for talking to Saeradan, so I logically assumed the rest would take place later. Therefore, when I saw the warning in the dismiss quest, I thought I was fine, as there was no quests clearly available from Andreg or anyone at the scout camp.

So, baring that I regularly scour the forums for problem quests, have a friend that power levels through new content to warn me, or someone the happens to send out a warning in chat during the brief window that I would know what their talking about, I would have absolutely no warning that I can never now complete this quest. Unfortunately, none of these happened for me, so now I'm forever stuck.

I love to complete deeds of this sort and deeds in general. Never being able to complete this now is going to irk me for a long time. Please fix this so that we can complete it later, weather being able to bring back Andreg later, or through scrying or something.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AlphaMan

My question is, why not just have him appear at the Rohirrim Scout-camp? It's not as if he's gone from Middle-Earth at this point. Having a character teleport in and teleport out unlike every other character in the game seems to be a bit of an odd design choice, in my opinion.

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Agreed.

Quote:

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Also, doesn't missing this prevent gaining THREE deeds (Dunland quest deed, Gravenwood quest deed, Old Goat Deed), not just the goat? That's a big loss for misreading a quest or having a bit of an itchy trigger finger, and a unique loss unlike even the limited time quests of old

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You can complete the Gravenwood quest deed without these quests, I know 2 people who broke the ranger and have just finished the quest deed fine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Crell_1

Agreed.



You can complete the Gravenwood quest deed without these quests, I know 2 people who broke the ranger and have just finished the quest deed fine.

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That's a relief. In all honesty, that was my biggest concern, though the "tracking the old goat" still interests me (what goat are we tracking? what's going on? etc). Thanks for the confirmation though.

I'd just say, from a design standpoint, having it more akin to the Evendim quest that this corresponds with (the journal that updates in the field) would make more sense, so you don't have to hunt to FIND the quests in the first place (because otherwise you have to assume they're in that same area to find them, there's no other indication).

Now that I've given it some time I've cooled a bit and it's not the biggest thing in the world, just seems a little sloppy.