Compendium of the Ettenmoors - Tips to Freeps

In the spirit of trying to make the Moors a better place to RAID, I decided to start this thread so we can all compile a "guide line" on the role of ppl in a raid.

I play only 2 classes, so I'm not here to teach anyone how to play their classes.

The idea is to give ppl a clue on roles in a raid, from our experiences.
Yeah, ours. So this first message on this thread is not all there is... I'd like to invite other vets to share their opinions.


So an important shoutout: I'm not the best freep out there! But I have spent some of my life out there and raided a lot.


--- CREEPS, GET OUT OF THIS THREAD!!!!!!! =P ---


Healers: you know when you PvE and you heal the tank and some of the melee classes? Well, in the Moors you ARE the tank.
Build up your mitigations (and crit defence with U10) and get used to heal yourself prior to others. Practice this creating a skirmish raid alone and just tanking all the npcs (best if they will CC you, so I suggest Pony).
An important exception is when you get a Guardian shield-wall. That's when you heal HIM! You have to keep him alive, not just use his morale as a bubble and wait for it to expire.
Being the "tank" means you'll dictate where the melee will be (ours and theirs), so move out of goo, wl banner aoe, etc...

Lore-master: you have 3 big responsabilities in a raid:
1) Keep Stun Immunity all the time. At least on yourself, the healer and the guardian shield-walling.
2) Keep tar where the healer is
3) AOE the heck out of those creeps! No single targets... just AOE and go back to responsability #1.
That's it. After you master this rotation, then you can add:
4) CC on the creep healer, and go back to #1.
Another note: watch your pet! Don't let it aggro npcs, pleaaase!

Guardians: yeah, I know the feeling... you are a tank, a dmg taker all the time... you want to go out there and DPS some creep in Overpower stance and all. I do understand that. Do it when you solo or duo out there! When you're raiding, you're the raid life insurance. You HAVE to get that legacy for shield wall and you have to do that. Only that. That's your role in a raid. DPS is your role when soloing... sorry to break it to ya... =/
There will be a few exceptions in some smaller group action that may allow you to DPS and switch to shield-wall when needed. But that's pretty rare...
So: shield wall legacy/traits/gear/whatever, and tons of power pots, morale pots, etc... all you need to help the healer keep you alive, and vice-versa.

Hunters: You are pretty much the backbone of dps. Yes. You are. BUT, you have to trait for tracking and to use it. Specially wargs in stealth.
If you don't, you're giving the creeps the element of surprise and you are taking away our element of surprise, since any attempt to flank will become an ambush if a warg is watching us.

The Target Assist: much discussion to be had here. I'll just say what I've seen working beautifully back in the days:
1) You HAVE to follow the TA. If you don't, you're worthless in a raid.
2) We got to have 2 TAs: ranged and melee. Hunters as TA never account for freep melee being slowed. It's a fact. I've seen it and suffered with it while playing my captain for long raiding ours.
Melee TA should stick around creeps attacking our healers.
Ranged TA should stick around either BA's or Defilers, depending on the raid formations.

Raid Leaders: please, choose location wisely. That's all I ask for. Account for their numbers and formation. Strategy must change is creeps have too many heals or too many dps. But in any case, location is paramount. Know where creeps can map, check where are their rez circles and npcs, and ours.
Choose the spot where you want the fight to happen. Specially if our formation is mostly melee. You got to pick a spot to make that count. All of us will be slowed during the whole fight. That's a fact. Melee is constantly at -30/40% run speed.
Speak a lot. Tell ppl what to do. Each one, if needed. Get some ppl to do specific stuff, like a burg harassing a defiler.

To all: for most classes, your gear/traits should be different soloing and raiding... sometimes only one or two traits, sometimes just one of the LIs... but you should pay attention to it. For instance, a hunter shouldn't need too much survivability while in a raid. It should DPS like a boss, tho (and track!!!!!).


For now, that's what I had to say... would appreciate some more input from all the other vets out there =)

What about cappies any insight there?

To me, Herja, the cappy role is not to dps at all.

So...
Captain: Just like with the Guardian, when in a raid, you should go HoH and sacrifice IDOME for SotD (Fellowship Brother is a must).

I have one emblem for soloing, and one for grouping (which I still dont have the legacy for SorD CD, but will do when I get my first age).

Focus is: To Arms duration, all my healing skills, SotD CD, Escape from Darkness CD.
I heal, I buff, I rez. That's my role...
If I'll buff with Song Brother or Blade Brother, depends on the situation. Sometimes I'll switch, sometimes stick to one...

Since we work out of defeat events and crits (either to get defeat events or to heal for real) that's how I go:

Gear:
3 Armour of Perseverance (-20% defeat event CD)
3 Armour of Loyalty (lots of mits and -25% Escape from Darkness, which with the emblem legacy makes it a 02m30s CD in-combat rez)
Jewelry is all might and crit - more heals and more chance to crit (both on heals and Pressing Attack and Dev Blow - defeat event)

Blue traits are:
Fear no Darkness (+20% Healing on Words of Courage)
Blood of Númenor (must have. period.)
Now for Wrath (must have. period.)
Deeds Before Words (Inspire will restore 25% more morale - and 25% more power, if using Song Brother)
Relentless Optimism (Your critical heals will heal 50% more. That's where the cappy heals are)

Red Traits:
Renewed Voice (helps me unlocking Pressing Attack and Dev Blow, which will give me a defeat event no a crit, so I can heal/buff)
Turn of the Tide (a little aoe stun now and then is always nice for the raid, lowers incoming dmg, tho Expert Attacks is good to crit on Pressing Attack and Dev Blow)

(edit)
There's an argument I'd consider... using 2 yellow (Tactical Prowess and Composure/Defiance).
The reason here would be to have no CD on the Marks. In the Moors there's a lot of switching targets, and being able to mark the next right away is a very nice thing........... I've tried it and found it very good!
(end-edit)

Now, the real magic on a good cappy, which I confess I'm not that good with, is using In Harm's Way.

You must master the use of it not only with Last Stand, but at any time. It's all about moving away (cause there's a range to where you'll absorb the dmg), warning it's up and getting the healer to heal you, or not heal at all when Last Stand is up with it.

Not all cappies will agree to all this, but those are my tips to cappies raiding in the Moors: be a cappy, not a champ wannabe.

Oh nice. I hope you don't mind but I c/p, (gave credit) for my own server. There are a lot of new people just starting out in the moors that could use something like that.

Love the idea Herja. I fear only the old heads of the moors are the ones that read the forums though. Really hope there is some new blood that will log on and read this and help improve their game :D

I don't mind at all! Thank you for sharing. =)
I signed up that thread. Cross-server guideline is even better! So I'll probably be copying some interresting stuff from there too!

Welcome to Crickhollow forums, btw.

I like the idea Herja, gonna add more info in the classes i play, for now loremaster, maybe later i add something for champs too

Lore-master: you have 3 big responsabilities in a raid:
1) Keep Stun Immunity all the time. At least on yourself, the healer and the guardian shield-walling.

Thats probably the most important job for a loremaster in a raid, keep stun inmunity. We need our healers alive, a healer that is dazed/stuned cant heal anything and probably will end incapacitated in no time. Stun Inmunity will help him outheal a lot of damage in himself, and keep healing the Raid. Also Stun inmunity on the guardian shield walling so he can use it in the healer whitout the SW being break. And last but not least, a loremaster should have always stun inmunity in himself so you can do the above. Pls dont be fail and keep SI on yourself, some ocasional stun or stun while mounted is ok, but when is happening in regular basis is not good. Also i will add that LEAST in that sentence is kind of asking much, LM should keep SI on healer, guardian and himself, thats whats needed. Thinking that a lm should keep SI all the time in everyone in a raid..(12,24 people etc) is asking too much, also when you consider the lot of other things we need to do in a raid. At least not perma SI for dps classes, maybe as reactive for a stun, but then we have to consider ranges, timing etc, and few people is all the time in range of the of the lm tbh

2) Keep tar where the healer is

Tar is awesome and help a lot, but to keep it refreshed all the time whit same duration as CD require a trait that not all LM use. Also it can be countered whit spider poo. But yes even untraited keeping tar most of the time near healers is a must is a 50% reduction in movement and +10% fire damage you want active in creeps

3) AOE the heck out of those creeps! No single targets... just AOE and go back to responsability #1.

Why no single targets? Burning embers and test of will FTW, but yeah, as long the creeps are grouped near each other do AOES like a madman if you are a lm

That's it. After you master this rotation, then you can add:

4) CC on the creep healer, and go back to #1.

If posible, of course, CC is a must, but the again almost all creeps use brands, and even traited for Crowd control a daze in a full auded creep last only 7.5 sec. So if you are a lm and you think you can colaborate more whit the raid AOE dpsing( and then getting dazes nerfed if traited) then do, and spam your roots, stuns like test of will /Ents, etc for some kind of crowd control. A loremaster need to recognize the situation and adapt to whatever is most needed

Another note: watch your pet! Don't let it aggro npcs, pleaaase!

Yes pretty please... a loremaster NEVER should have a pet that isnt the light pet, in agressive stance, NOT EVEN in assist if npcs are nearby. Get your pet in passive,whit assist unchecked and get it near you (giving you the t mit buff or icpr buff or whatever) waiting for the right moment for you to send it to atack manually , and call it back manually too . In that way you can control better where is your pet and call it back if you need. Assist works well if there arent npcs that can be aggroed, but you will have to call back manually your pet too aniway after each atack, since the pet will go each time to atack the same target that you do.
Also regarding pets, if you are using lynx be aware that you are giving to all the freeps near you the same stealth alert that they get when a warg is around..so no need to scare others. Be nice and use light pet for heals and less aggro issues, raven for tact mit , fire damage debuff,etc or eagle if you wanna spend the trait (just dont give double infamy taking the eaglez rez in the midle of a zerg )

And i add a few advices of mine too :

5) Give power to your raid: We are a power battery, so we can as well keep our raid whit full power, at least the healers. Our power absorv is awesome now too, so dont waste it and share power when needed. The power absorv also can even be used ofensively draining the power of the creeps. Btw raid leaders, never keep 2 lms in the same group if posible, that a waste of our groupal power share

6) Debuff like a boss: Even not traited whit yellow capstone, 30 seconds lore skills are pretty useful in moors, less damage received = less heals needed, less deads on freeps. etc. Keep yous signs (command , SOP SAE) in creeps too

7) Cures status: We have an awesome skill that remove up to 3 wounds/diseases each 10 seconds, and another that removes silences, so why dont use those skills? Dont let your healrs be silenced and use Righteouness on them, and heal wounds/diseases when posible

8) Do some spot heals: Sometimes when focused even a good healer cant keep himself up, thats when we help. BOH is one of the better single target heals of the game, so it worth trow it sometimes on healers, or whoever is needing some extra heals. Also we have water lore wich is awesome , but the 15 meters range dont help much to use it as a heal to others on regular basis

Pet recommendations : Raven for tact mit: which allow you more freedom to equip your self and still be at tact mit cap. Fire debuff (since most of our skills are fire based) and ranged atacks debuff

Lynx to get some kills and extra direct damage and dots, Light pet for heals to yourself and your groups( but now whit water lore is not that necesary as before) sabrecat for naugh, maybe to look cool xD. Bear for..since taunts dont help much( maybe only to keep a crep in combat) and melee debuff only help us in staff stike/staff sweep, bear to look weird XD. but maybe whit some hunter/burg/champ focus fire bear debuff can actually be useful in moors. Eagle as wild card, for the fear (wich i love) the rez and the icpr

Trait recommendation: Recognize the raid situation, if you think that full ccing and debuff is needed go full AM whit tradition set (frost lore whit trait set bonus, and deep lore is awesome), if is not that needed,go for 5 red whit the apropiate set (Improved Sticky Gourd rules in moors). Atm i dont see much use for full blue line traits in the moors, since the healing in moors should be done actually by a full healing class, like minstrels, Rks etc and the lm should only act as a secondary healer. And buffing our pets really dont make much of a diference tbh

Thats all, i may add something more later

Very nice, Rast! As I said, I've only really played 2 classes, so I'm not sure how you can proper trait and use skills in a good rotation. It's very important that other veterans come here and speak their minds about their classes and raiding. =)

Just remember: this thread is about raiding! So forget about soloing when writing here.

Champions: I have only 2 things to say here, cause I have no experience playing a champ in the Moors. But...
1) Use AOE stun more. As soon as you see the red shield wear off on the TA target, do it! CC is awesome in raid vs raid. It lowers the enemies DPS, allows slowed melee dps to reach them, and lowers the healing for a short bit if it hits healers.
2) Thinking about a raid vs raid where creeps have lots of melee dps (wargs specially, but also reavers), I'd say: go full AOE traited and hug our healers/squishies. You'll give creep healers a heart attack! Ofc, that is considering freep side have a good amount of single-target burst dps (hunters, rks, burgs)...

Nice thread Herja! I've heard about it, but haven't had a chance to read until now.

I agree to everything you said about Cappy in raid. Only thing I would do differently on occasion, is when creeps got heal zerg (which happens often enough) and we got low dps (which also happens often enough), and things don't die for 15 secs or more, I switch to 5x Command set and keep 5% dmg debuff on target at all times. I also switch to stick & board when I'm the focus fire target. Dead cappy can't do much, so I try to keep myself alive long enough to at least cast a bubble on someone before I die (don't always work tho ;p). When to use In Harms Way is definitely one of the hardest thing to learn. A lot of cappies seem to think IHW + Last Stand is a set, but it's not. If you got good mits and/or good healers in the raid, you don't have to use LS every time.

Good job Rastorn, too! Wish all LMs did what you say they should :D

I would personally love to see comprehensive guide to Crick moors Hunters (*looks at Ello, Tops and Charm*), Mini (*looks at Bloin, Qris and Harry*) and more on Champy (Thorrrrfiiiiin).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Edit] Adding a few more lines about cappy in raid:

1. Ideally, cappies should have 4 weapons:

(1) Two-hander for solo/ 1v1 (max legacy on Devastating Blow, and other dps legacies)
(2) Two-hander for raid (max legacy on Pressing Attack crit chance AND Pressing Attack max target - the second hit with PA crits, you go into battle-hardened state (same as defeat event). You can hit as many as 5 targets with PA, means you have five chances to crit. You should pretty much crit at least every other hit with PA or more. (I've been too busy re-building my cappy for solo/ 1v1 after RoR, I personally haven't made this yet XD But, I used to only have No. (2), so I know it works)
(3) Buff stick (I personally like to put Kick cd legacy on it as well. 30sec CD on interrupt is meh, but better than 1 min. Only use it on WL or filer in a raid)
(4) 1-hander for stick & board (I see very noticeable difference in how much longer I survive. I stack tac mits, morale, incoming healing on 1-hander relics and maxed legacy on Defensive Strike Armour Buff).

2. Use the moors relics!! I love it. Put one in your buff stick and buff emblem. Hot key them. Every time I Battle Shout, which is my opening skill rotation in a raid, I get 20% chance to fear target. I SO regret not getting the old Command set pre-RoR... I would've had 50% chance ~.~

3. In addition to being a secondary healer in a raid, I also see myself as a secondary power battery. Watch healer's morale AND power. If there're more than one defiler with a fly, I try to watch healer's power carefully. Switch their buff to Focus midway, use power banner, song brother, and spam inspire.

4. Get out of combat and rez! Cappies have the BEST out of combat rez now (3s induction and full morale/ power restore with Blood of Numenor). As Herja said, 3x loyalty with max legacy on buff emblem should drop Escape from Darkness cd to 2.5 min. But, it's still 2.5 min. I don't recommend doing this all the time, only use when absolutely necessary, like "the only healer is down!" then, quickly go out of combat, should only take like 8 sec, and rez the dead healer. I'm still learning on how to do this well. When done well, it really saves the raid. Most times, I have something CC-ing me continuously, I have no chance of getting out of combat, but I try w/e I can. I would definitely communicate this to the raid, so that other's aren't doing the same.

Commander's set tooltips is wrong :P

It is +10% instead of 5.

Ok my RK tips.

DPS their isn't much to it, just keep on zapping. Make sure you throw up resist shield and do not fall to flame before entering fights though. Gives us that half a second extra to survive.

In coordinated burst damage target calling, RKs rock, we get to be the lucky ones that make those initial 2 big that drop the creeps down to half morale letting the hunter etc finish them off with thier high damage hits.

I the "Lulls" of a fight if there are any, throw up another do not fall to flame, giving your healers a helping hand. Great time to do it is when the TA is having a hard time finding a target they want.

Make sure you do not over extend. You know how short range heals are, don't make the healers job any harder than it is by chasing off after a target you should be focusing on.

FOR HEALING

Funnily enough a lot of healing is keeping yourself alive, which the rk can do in bursts. With combinations of glorious foreshadowing, bubbles, calming verses, do not fall to flame, resist shields you can stay alive for a long time and frustrate creeps to no end.

After you have frustrated said creeps now comes the challenging part. Keeping the rest of your raid alive.

1. Mending verses is your bread and butter, spam it on the creeps focused targets.

2. In those rare moments in fights where no one is copping a real beating, throw up a do not fall to flame/resist shield.

3. After this you can use a rousing words, usually after the first two though you have to start spending those carming verses on everyone.

4. Whatever our small bubble is, something of exaltation, is a lifesaver, literally. When the targets have a quick target switch, throw it at the new guy, gives everyone a chance to clearly see who is now getting targetted and throw some heals that way.

5. Essay of exaltation I use differently to most, if my entire group is looking a little low on morale from collateral damage, but someone in another group is getting focused. I will throw essay up then spam healing the focused target. Might seem like a waste but it gives you the oppurtunity to frustrate the TA again while not having to worry about your groups morale(temporarily)

6. I use our legendary group heal can't remember the name atm, in much the same way. I tend to save it more often for when I feel like my group needs a heal though.

7. Save calming verses for yourself, when the wargs decide you are going to die, this is what stops you from dieing. When your shield wall breaks, this is what stops you from melting.

8. Move with the group. A good leader will keep the targets called around the healers, do the leader a favor and push forward with your dps. You are the focal point of most fights, don't run away from your other healers, don't stand 40m away trying to survive against 3 wargs, move with the group be part of the fight.

9. Doesn't need to be said, but trait blue line, don't be cheap.

10. Don't be afraid of using epic of ages. It is such a good troll heal, creeps think they nearly have something down then boom full morale. Nothing gets creeps qq'ing about op rk healers more than a well timed epic of ages(well-timed being the key). Do not start to cast epic of ages when someone has only 4k morale to go, the cast has to start early, anticipate someone going down and bring them back to full.

11. Timing is the key, and practice makes perfect. Well placed use of cooldowns, good timing of epic of ages and switching targets quickly and watching the whole raid, not just people in your group.

12. Also identify who the normal first target is, and throw ME SOME HEALS! lol

Edit**

13. All fates entwined is a must.

14. Prioritise your healing. There are at times that we can't save everyone. When someone is going down let the person that is least important to the raid go down. Healers need to stay up, shieldwallers need to stay up, Captains need to stay up and Loremasters need to stay up (without SI we are useless). Everyone else do your best to save them, but not at the expense of other people in the group.


That is everything I can think of atm. Whizzy time to step up and throw some things up for the hunters ;)(not putting you on the spot at all).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hoges

Ok my RK tips.

DPS their isn't much to it, just keep on zapping. Make sure you throw up resist shield and do not fall to flame before entering fights though. Gives us that half a second extra to survive.

In coordinated burst damage target calling, RKs rock, we get to be the lucky ones that make those initial 2 big that drop the creeps down to half morale letting the hunter etc finish them off with thier high damage hits.

I the "Lulls" of a fight if there are any, throw up another do not fall to flame, giving your healers a helping hand. Great time to do it is when the TA is having a hard time finding a target they want.

Make sure you do not over extend. You know how short range heals are, don't make the healers job any harder than it is by chasing off after a target you should be focusing on.

FOR HEALING

Funnily enough a lot of healing is keeping yourself alive, which the rk can do in bursts. With combinations of glorious foreshadowing, bubbles, calming verses, do not fall to flame, resist shields you can stay alive for a long time and frustrate creeps to no end.

After you have frustrated said creeps now comes the challenging part. Keeping the rest of your raid alive.

1. Mending verses is your bread and butter, spam it on the creeps focused targets.

2. In those rare moments in fights where no one is copping a real beating, throw up a do not fall to flame/resist shield.

3. After this you can use a rousing words, usually after the first two though you have to start spending those carming verses on everyone.

4. Whatever our small bubble is, something of exaltation, is a lifesaver, literally. When the targets have a quick target switch, throw it at the new guy, gives everyone a chance to clearly see who is now getting targetted and throw some heals that way.

5. Essay of exaltation I use differently to most, if my entire group is looking a little low on morale from collateral damage, but someone in another group is getting focused. I will throw essay up then spam healing the focused target. Might seem like a waste but it gives you the oppurtunity to frustrate the TA again while not having to worry about your groups morale(temporarily)

6. I use our legendary group heal can't remember the name atm, in much the same way. I tend to save it more often for when I feel like my group needs a heal though.

7. Save calming verses for yourself, when the wargs decide you are going to die, this is what stops you from dieing. When your shield wall breaks, this is what stops you from melting.

8. Move with the group. A good leader will keep the targets called around the healers, do the leader a favor and push forward with your dps. You are the focal point of most fights, don't run away from your other healers, don't stand 40m away trying to survive against 3 wargs, move with the group be part of the fight.

9. Doesn't need to be said, but trait blue line, don't be cheap.

10. Don't be afraid of using epic of ages. It is such a good troll heal, creeps think they nearly have something down then boom full morale. Nothing gets creeps qq'ing about op rk healers more than a well timed epic of ages(well-timed being the key). Do not start to cast epic of ages when someone has only 4k morale to go, the cast has to start early, anticipate someone going down and bring them back to full.

11. Timing is the key, and practice makes perfect. Well placed use of cooldowns, good timing of epic of ages and switching targets quickly and watching the whole raid, not just people in your group.

12. Also identify who the normal first target is, and throw ME SOME HEALS! lol




That is everything I can think of atm. Whizzy time to step up and throw some things up for the hunters ;)(not putting you on the spot at all).

---

I'd like to make 1 addition to healing, and if it is in here and I missed reading it I apologize. but for healing with the rk AFE (all fates entwined or whatever) is your best friend. yes there is a per second morale/power cost to yourself, but the benefits it gives you and the group FAR exceed that measly 100 or whatever morale a second, keep a writ on yourself or something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by firehandsjr

I'd like to make 1 addition to healing, and if it is in here and I missed reading it I apologize. but for healing with the rk AFE (all fates entwined or whatever) is your best friend. yes there is a per second morale/power cost to yourself, but the benefits it gives you and the group FAR exceed that measly 100 or whatever morale a second, keep a writ on yourself or something.

---

oh of course, completely forgot. All fates entwined is absolutely necessary, otherwise you won't get a single induction off with all the damage you will be taking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rashy

Commander's set tooltips is wrong :P

It is +10% instead of 5.

---

5 piece Command set bonus is Sure Strike increases damage dealt to your target by 5% for 10sec. Since SS cd is only 6 sec, you can debuff the target pretty much continuously (assuming you don't miss your hit).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Farriel

5 piece Command set bonus is Sure Strike increases damage dealt to your target by 5% for 10sec. Since SS cd is only 6 sec, you can debuff the target pretty much continuously (assuming you don't miss your hit).

---

does it not stack to 10%? I thought it stacked twice but I could be wrong

When you join a raid you should stop thinking, the raid leader is in control and if everybody has there own opinion you slow down your reaction time and lose. In a raid you form one solid body led by your raid leader who will lead you to victory. You can have your view of things but save them for after the wipe when you have the why did we wipe talk. Fight as one and you will one, works well whenever i'm playing so you should give it a try.

~ The Art of the Burglar ~

Ok. The burglar has three different jobs in a raid, depending of the situation.

#1. Piss off the creep healers. *great against heal stacked craids*

The most common job for a burglar is to piss off the creeps healers. Especially defilers since they have to focus more heals on themselves when targeted. Your main objective is not to get the kill here, so watch your power pool since burglars tend to run out of power rather quickly in a raid vs raid.
-Keep legacy'd addle up on as many healers as you can
-Disable them for the +15% attack duration (+20% traited)
-CC the &&&& out of them (focus on one)
-Damage them to make them panic and heal themselves instead of DPS, or other healers. (A creep raid with no DPS is a dead creep raid).

#2. The body guard. *great against warg-heavy craids*

This strategy is often used in groups vs groups, but still REALLY useful for Raids vs Raids. Your job here is to protect your healers against wargs, reavers, and pretty anything that get close to your healers.
-AoE dust
-Stun the &&&& out of wargs
-Disable reavers since they usually are harder to keep CC'd down than wargs
-DPS down creeps that get too close, usually you'll be following the target assist for this
-Shadow wargs go down really fast so don't worry about power if you have a LM near you.

#3 The motherfking debuffer *Great against heavy-DPS craids (especially BAs)*

Ok this strategy is a major P.I.T.A for creeps, trust me. Craid has a lot of damage dealers and your healers can't keep up. No problemz.
-Trait 5yellow/2blue (evade buff and whatever else you want)
-Enrage those pesky BAs with your instant tricks
-AoE dust everyone on the freaking battlefield
-Disable wargs, reavers, defilers, WLs
-Get a LM to keep your power bar up or you'll become useless after about 2 min.
-Try to get a +10% run speed from coffee consumable if you can to travel faster between the BAs in the back, to the reavers, etc.


Well I think that's pretty much it for the RvR burglar guide. I hope it's useful for a fellow burglar out there :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by firehandsjr

does it not stack to 10%? I thought it stacked twice but I could be wrong

---

Nope. You hit with SS again while 5% debuff is on, it just renews the debuff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Straego

When you join a raid you should stop thinking, the raid leader is in control and if everybody has there own opinion you slow down your reaction time and lose. In a raid you form one solid body led by your raid leader who will lead you to victory. You can have your view of things but save them for after the wipe when you have the why did we wipe talk. Fight as one and you will one, works well whenever i'm playing so you should give it a try.

---

Herja: "--- CREEPS, GET OUT OF THIS THREAD!!!!!!! =P ---" :D :D :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Farriel

Nope. You hit with SS again while 5% debuff is on, it just renews the debuff.

---

Check the debuff tooltip, it shows 10%. Not sure weather the Set tooltip or the debuff one is wrong tho.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Farriel

Herja: "--- CREEPS, GET OUT OF THIS THREAD!!!!!!! =P ---" :D :D :D

---

D4 CR33P$ 4R3 3V3RYWH3R3

Love the burglar tips Euph. Have some good players playing burg on Crick. Would love seeing them do this job. Its annoyed the heck out of my creeps on other servers.

I could chip in (tho admittedly, I played freep quite some time ago).

First of all, everything Herja said about cappies is good and true, only thing he forgot to mention is Make Haste which can be infinitely useful in certain situations (which is something I learned from him actually :D).

About champions:
1) do not trait blue in raids. Seriously. No, really, don't.
2) consider traiting deep yellow and going Ardour if you're up against permanent 8+ melee (reavers and stalkers count in there, plus an occasional weaver and warleader and a rare suicidal BA). Yellow capstone can be extremely powerful (if you haven't tried Deathstorm (Improved Cleave) I suggest you do try it). Plus True Heroics bubble gets a very funky side effect. It will decrease your single target dps but if played in the right conditions can make it up in AoE. (and yeah, I have done it, with marvellous outcomes. Gets better the more champs you have like that)
3) traiting 3 yellow for raids is helpful. Using stun as much as possible helps blow brands and pots, and champs have 2 stuns, use both of them and get a utility weapon for a longer stun.
4) Hamstring everything you can. Use a utility weapon to make it last longer if possible.
5) If your TA hunter/rk picks a target that is far from you (especially if you are slowed and/or there are webs and defiler poo on the ground), disregard it, go for the closest best target instead. (this applies when the raid's dps isn't dependant on the champs). Also, tell your TA to pick better targets.
6) Don't complain about heals if you run out of healing range. Also, don't expect to get healed anyway.

There is more but that should do for now.

Oh! I remember those days... Erlessa, Raven, Thorfinn and Elekktro in my group, I'd just hit Make Haste (55s with Moors armour) and say "Fetch!"... was good! =)

Not too many spiders back then, tho... where's Arachnophobia, btw??



Nice tips, ppl! =)
Thanks for adding up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Herja

To me, Herja, the cappy role is not to dps at all.

So...
Captain: Just like with the Guardian, when in a raid, you should go HoH and sacrifice IDOME for SotD (Fellowship Brother is a must).

I have one emblem for soloing, and one for grouping (which I still dont have the legacy for SorD CD, but will do when I get my first age).

Focus is: To Arms duration, all my healing skills, SotD CD, Escape from Darkness CD.
I heal, I buff, I rez. That's my role...
If I'll buff with Song Brother or Blade Brother, depends on the situation. Sometimes I'll switch, sometimes stick to one...

Since we work out of defeat events and crits (either to get defeat events or to heal for real) that's how I go:

Gear:
3 Armour of Perseverance (-20% defeat event CD)
3 Armour of Loyalty (lots of mits and -25% Escape from Darkness, which with the emblem legacy makes it a 02m30s CD in-combat rez)
Jewelry is all might and crit - more heals and more chance to crit (both on heals and Pressing Attack and Dev Blow - defeat event)

Blue traits are:
Fear no Darkness (+20% Healing on Words of Courage)
Blood of Númenor (must have. period.)
Now for Wrath (must have. period.)
Deeds Before Words (Inspire will restore 25% more morale - and 25% more power, if using Song Brother)
Relentless Optimism (Your critical heals will heal 50% more. That's where the cappy heals are)

Red Traits:
Renewed Voice (helps me unlocking Pressing Attack and Dev Blow, which will give me a defeat event no a crit, so I can heal/buff)
Turn of the Tide (a little aoe stun now and then is always nice for the raid, lowers incoming dmg, tho Expert Attacks is good to crit on Pressing Attack and Dev Blow)

(edit)
There's an argument I'd consider... using 2 yellow (Tactical Prowess and Composure/Defiance).
The reason here would be to have no CD on the Marks. In the Moors there's a lot of switching targets, and being able to mark the next right away is a very nice thing........... I've tried it and found it very good!
(end-edit)

Now, the real magic on a good cappy, which I confess I'm not that good with, is using In Harm's Way.

You must master the use of it not only with Last Stand, but at any time. It's all about moving away (cause there's a range to where you'll absorb the dmg), warning it's up and getting the healer to heal you, or not heal at all when Last Stand is up with it.

Not all cappies will agree to all this, but those are my tips to cappies raiding in the Moors: be a cappy, not a champ wannabe.

---

Thanks for the guide, Look forward to getting back out on my Cappy soon. Just haven't been bothered to play much on Crickhollow! Hopefully when the new raids come out I'll have renewed vigor to play Cappy some more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Herja

2) Thinking about a raid vs raid where creeps have lots of melee dps (wargs specially, but also reavers), I'd say: go full AOE traited and hug our healers/squishies. You'll give creep healers a heart attack! Ofc, that is considering freep side have a good amount of single-target burst dps (hunters, rks, burgs)...

---

This! If you want kills get a champ or 2 back by the healers to take out the wargs and reavers - a good number of wargs are guaranteed to run at half health so they are quickly out of the equation for a short time. Too many raids leave the healers unprotected, and a kiting healer doesn't heal very effectively.

One option for target picking is to have the forward melee TA pick the target, the ranged TA then locks in on that, the melee TA then starts looking for the next target. When you have ranged calling all the shots it can leave the melee classes running all over the place, and you really need to FF to burn thru 20k of creep morale quickly.

I've read so much BS in the warden, pvp and BR forums about warden role in a raid that I feel I NEED to write down some tips about it:

(Again: IN RAID CONTEXT)

Wardens:

1) Use Spear Lord armour: Your job is to debuff incoming healing on the target.

2) Run spear or fist lines: your second job is to put bleed on the targets, specially wargs.

3) Use +2 Heal Pulses, if you may: use Conviction every once and a while... in recklessness it buffs over 3k Physical Mastery besided that nice healing help to your group.

4) Throw Desolation on spiders when they are being targeted (if the Fear procs, it will dig them out of burrow) specially if you are traited fist line




Note 0: Stack up might!!! You are not tanking creeps. The healers are. You need to do decent damage and have your conviction healing big ticks.

Note 1: If you decide to trait fist, which I'm not a fan (but...), care to take the armour set with the nice debuffs for desolation and gear swap to get the incoming healing debuffs from Spear Lord.

Note 2: If you can't gear swap, forget about "Note 1" and stick to Spear Lord set.

We despairingly need a good mintrel to post here about raiding minstrel's... my god, we need it...

New breed of minstrels in the moors are doing it wrong.

A couple of the new minstrels are doing well. But I'd love to hear from some of those Mini's that are just impossible to kill, and can run around with 10+ creeps chasing them without dieing.

I think Minstrel build is a big one. I've heard so many different opinions on blue/yellow/mixed traiting.

Blue line raid healing minstrel.

TRAITS

There are 5 traits I use all the time for all situations and they are -

-Life Singer - + 10% chance to critical heals
-Silver Tongue - + 25% healing for critical heals
-Ip Raise the Spirit - -1.5 sec casting time -50% cool down +10% RtS healing
-Focused Performance - -10% induction for all skills
-Enduring morale - +343 morale

The last trait I use depends on the situation.
if its a big Ra Vs Ra (12+) Graceful Demeanor - +20% health on revival +30% power -2s induction
This is useful for sneaking out of combat to cast a quicker ore efficient AoE rez.
If it is a smaller Ra Vs Ra I will trait Imp Song of Soothing - Removes induction time and +10 yrd range
This is useful for the Minstrel's moors crafting relic that adds -10% AoE inc healing debuff to Song of Soothing.

STATS AND GEAR

It's important to have a high morale and capped migrations as you will often be focused early on and the longer you can stay up, the better.

Use morale virtues Zeal and Valor. Remember to factor in the stats needed for capped migrations AFTER buffs (scrolls, cappy buff, etc). This will leave you with more opportunity to use morale gear over mitigation gear.

The single most important legacy for your LI is the Still as Death one which reduces the cool down from 5 to 3 minutes.
This will let you often flop twice in one battle.

5 set bonus from Resolve set is amazing as it makes Soliloquy of Spirit remove 1 disease, fear, wound, or poison every 2s for 10s. This will keep you free of debuffs.

STRATEGY

Starting the fight - Stack 3x major ballads ASAP. This will give +21% outgoing healing. After this apply Soliloquy of Spirit on your self. SoS should primarily be used on yourself and always be on cool down because it will keep you free of debuffs like the warg's silencing fear.

When getting focused - Don't just stand there. Kite and then kite some more. You will take a lot less dmg doing this. Use a LM's tar to help when possible.


SKILLS

Still as Death - The best time to use this is when you are getting focused and you can't kite anymore without dying. Don't wait too late to flop. Flop around 40% morale to make sure you won't bleed out from DoTs as you are playing dead.

Anthem of Composure - This is an amazing power restoring skill that should be used when running low on power and used all the time against many defiler's flies.

Rally - Long cool down on this one, so don't waste it. Priority for rez is Cappy>Healer>TA>DPS

Fellowship's Heart - Use this early on in the fight when 2 or more people are taking heavy dmg.




i hope some of you can get some use out of this. I will add more as I think of them.

Bobby

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rashy

Check the debuff tooltip, it shows 10%. Not sure weather the Set tooltip or the debuff one is wrong tho.

---

As I understand it, the Telling Mark legacy affects your Sure Strike debuff. So you'll have a 10% debuff with the legacy, 5% without.

(Popped in this thread 'cause it was linked in the Silverlode forums. Nice tips for cappies!)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TinDragon

As I understand it, the Telling Mark legacy affects your Sure Strike debuff. So you'll have a 10% debuff with the legacy, 5% without.

---

Thanks for the info.


Herja what do you think cappies will end up wearing after U10 (When 3/5-set bonuses will shift to 2/4)?

I wrote up a pretty in depth write-up yesterday, bit it got lost when the forum decided I wasn't logged on when I was.

some small comments.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bobbyunderhill

Blue line raid healing minstrel.

TRAITS

There are 5 traits I use all the time for all situations and they are -

-Life Singer - + 10% chance to critical heals
-Silver Tongue - + 25% healing for critical heals
-Ip Raise the Spirit - -1.5 sec casting time -50% cool down +10% RtS healing
-Focused Performance - -10% induction for all skills
-Enduring morale - +343 morale

The last trait I use depends on the situation.
if its a big Ra Vs Ra (12+) Graceful Demeanor - +20% health on revival +30% power -2s induction
This is useful for sneaking out of combat to cast a quicker ore efficient AoE rez.
If it is a smaller Ra Vs Ra I will trait Imp Song of Soothing - Removes induction time and +10 yrd range
This is useful for the Minstrel's moors crafting relic that adds -10% AoE inc healing debuff to Song of Soothing.

---

Enduring morale really isn't worth the slot. +343 morale is basically one attack. The best utillity for that trait is in WS for procing the ability to heal fellow members with chord.

Imp raise the spirit is nice, but spamming it is not power efficient, so i usually don't trait it.

instead of enduring morale, I would recommend traiting for the greater armor raiting, and instead of imp raise the spirit trait for improved rezzing. The armor trait plus the last trait I typically use (yellow trait with +tmit, I forget it's name) vastly improve tmit ratings, which make it easier to hit tmit cap, while not sacrificing will.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bobbyunderhill

STATS AND GEAR

It's important to have a high morale and capped migrations as you will often be focused early on and the longer you can stay up, the better.

---

For RvR morale stacking really isn't as important as outgoing healing. stacking morale any more that 10-11k is way too much of a detriment to outgoing healing to justify imho. It's best to try and find a balanced build of around 9k morale unbuffed with close to capped tmit and around 2k will. Going under 1.7k will for the extra bit of morale isn't worth the outgoing healing lost.

************DISCLAIMER******** ****************
This will all change with U10. the added morale from rank + added tmit gains from stacking Will are gonna make minstrels basically have to only worry about stacking will (with fate as a side priority).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rashy

Thanks for the info.


Herja what do you think cappies will end up wearing after U10 (When 3/5-set bonuses will shift to 2/4)?

---

That is quite the question... I suppose I'll go:

4 Loyalty: incoming healing debuff is da bomb!
2 Persevere: -20% defeat event is also da bomb!
And will have +2 persevere to swap for the CC removal on Make Haste.

Personally, I haven't tested out the Command set. But i think -35% incoming healing > +5-10% dmg... (that's a raiding thought).
I have only 4 pieces of the Command set (just got them), getting ready for testing in U10.

As far as I know, the Command set debuff would be:
1 hit = +5% incoming dmg debuff
2 hits = +10% incoming dmg debuff
Not sure if there would be 2 debuffs, or only 1 updated after the second hit... just don't feel logical for a legacy to apply over an armour set bonus...

Again, never used it... Hashem used to have it on PvE raids, but I never paid any attention (always in love with the Persevere set)

Not sure if they changed it as they did with the incoming healing debuff on wardens (oh, those sweet -100%).

Anyways, I got it just to test out and to have in the arsenal after u10. But I'll go Loyalty + Persevere.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Herja

To me, Herja, the cappy role is not to dps at all.

So...
Captain: Just like with the Guardian, when in a raid, you should go HoH and sacrifice IDOME for SotD (Fellowship Brother is a must).

I have one emblem for soloing, and one for grouping (which I still dont have the legacy for SorD CD, but will do when I get my first age).

Focus is: To Arms duration, all my healing skills, SotD CD, Escape from Darkness CD.
I heal, I buff, I rez. That's my role...
If I'll buff with Song Brother or Blade Brother, depends on the situation. Sometimes I'll switch, sometimes stick to one...

Since we work out of defeat events and crits (either to get defeat events or to heal for real) that's how I go:

Gear:
3 Armour of Perseverance (-20% defeat event CD)
3 Armour of Loyalty (lots of mits and -25% Escape from Darkness, which with the emblem legacy makes it a 02m30s CD in-combat rez)
Jewelry is all might and crit - more heals and more chance to crit (both on heals and Pressing Attack and Dev Blow - defeat event)

Blue traits are:
Fear no Darkness (+20% Healing on Words of Courage)
Blood of Númenor (must have. period.)
Now for Wrath (must have. period.)
Deeds Before Words (Inspire will restore 25% more morale - and 25% more power, if using Song Brother)
Relentless Optimism (Your critical heals will heal 50% more. That's where the cappy heals are)

Red Traits:
Renewed Voice (helps me unlocking Pressing Attack and Dev Blow, which will give me a defeat event no a crit, so I can heal/buff)
Turn of the Tide (a little aoe stun now and then is always nice for the raid, lowers incoming dmg, tho Expert Attacks is good to crit on Pressing Attack and Dev Blow)

(edit)
There's an argument I'd consider... using 2 yellow (Tactical Prowess and Composure/Defiance).
The reason here would be to have no CD on the Marks. In the Moors there's a lot of switching targets, and being able to mark the next right away is a very nice thing........... I've tried it and found it very good!
(end-edit)

Now, the real magic on a good cappy, which I confess I'm not that good with, is using In Harm's Way.

You must master the use of it not only with Last Stand, but at any time. It's all about moving away (cause there's a range to where you'll absorb the dmg), warning it's up and getting the healer to heal you, or not heal at all when Last Stand is up with it.

Not all cappies will agree to all this, but those are my tips to cappies raiding in the Moors: be a cappy, not a champ wannabe.

---

i didnt read all the post but if u really want to faceroll a creep raid with a lot of wls and defilers just make sure that ur captains gear the set with Incoming Healing debuff and trait LoM, then spam routing crys on their healers all the time.

thats it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Celenir

i didnt read all the post but if u really want to faceroll a creep raid with a lot of wls and defilers just make sure that ur captains gear the set with Incoming Healing debuff and trait LoM, then spam routing crys on their healers all the time.

thats it

---

Agree to disagree... =P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Herja

Agree to disagree... =P

---

I'd listen to Coco. when grouped with his pet mogwai they're pretty much unkillable.

Guys where are you???


9 days,23 hours,59 min, 59 secs left...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 1nTruDeR

Guys where are you???


9 days,23 hours,59 min, 59 secs left...

---

you already make you xfer? i want to fight you before you go!! tonight or tomorrow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 1nTruDeR

Guys where are you???


9 days,23 hours,59 min, 59 secs left...

---

Go to Riddermark!!! I'm making a toon there with some friends, just for the fun of low level content... and I'll probably play a creep there. =)

Alright, since I brought up 5% or 10% command set sure strike dmg debuff argument, I felt responsible to clarify, so I tested :3

The tool tip on set bonus says 5%, but the debuff itself is 10%. You hit once, it is 10%. Hit twice, just renews the debuff. Telling Mark doesn't affect it at all.

Also, I now have PVP raid sword, which I am loving it :D It works well even when I'm solo fighting a group. I was also wrong that you can hit as many as 8 targets when the Pressing Attack maximum target legacy is maxed.

Personally, I am wearing 4 perseverance, 2 loyalty after U10 in moors raid. I also realized I haven't fully utilized 4x Hytbold Charge bonus (20% revealing mark morale return), so I am going to start using it.

I am curious about trying 4 loyalty with LtC traited. I wouldn't personally use 4 loyalty without LtC, since Rallying Cry and Routing Cry share the same cd, and we never seem to have enough heals in Crick moors so Rally > Routing in most cases. Is the 35% healing debuff something creeps can pot, by the way?

Gotta love cappy, so much you can do :)

Champion: open up with brutal strikes/clobber, then seeking blades/remorseless, then when your target is trying to figure out how they only have 3k hp left just spam merciless strike until they stop moving and are lying on the ground.

Always helpful,
-Itty/Derpadoo

No hunter tips D:???? qqqqqqqqq wtb some!

There's a little bit of tips for hunters in some places there...

IN RAIDS, hunters should just DPS the heck out of the TA;
They should not panic when jumped by wargs and run away from healers/melee dps... if you feel like it, remove your slow, hit stun pot, bubble up and kite AROUND the healer.

They should not be a phat keed, cause they will be chewed up by Bane or the Pee Pee Brothers.

They should track at all times when the raid is stationary. (don't wait for the leader to ask)
And ask for the leader to wait for you to mount back up (after tracking), so you don't be a phat keed.

A good one, from a melee perspective: use your slows too, pls... we melee ppl thank you dearly!



But we should get some good ones on traits, legacies, gear, rotations from Crick good hunters (remembering: RAID PERSPECTIVE).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Herja

There's a little bit of tips for hunters in some places there...

They should not be a phat keed, cause they will be chewed up by Bane

.

---

worst tip ever herja, please do not stop my infamy flow D:

For the half-assed runners that play elf mostly:

Parry and Block can't be performed if you're being attacked from the back, meaning if you blow elf-parry to try to run away, congratz! You've wasted a 1h CD for nothing at all.

So i have gotten my warg to rank 4 and i want to start taking my freep burglar out a few times before my VIP ends.

i try to keep in mind that i am only level 48, so even though i am level boosted to 105 im still squishy as heck.

ive only played solo though, and notice that it...well lets say if theres a creep and they find me in stealth, im pretty much left with a sealed fate. but if i was with a raid, or even a half raid, what would be the best things for me to do?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PupsIsMyDog

So i have gotten my warg to rank 4 and i want to start taking my freep burglar out a few times before my VIP ends.

i try to keep in mind that i am only level 48, so even though i am level boosted to 105 im still squishy as heck.

ive only played solo though, and notice that it...well lets say if theres a creep and they find me in stealth, im pretty much left with a sealed fate. but if i was with a raid, or even a half raid, what would be the best things for me to do?

---

digging in threads from 2013 isn't exactly a good idea.

what you should do is level to 105, gear up and read some burglar guides or ask certain burg veterans on crick for rotations/tricks etc. (if you contact a PvE burg you might actually get worse than now).

oh, and find friends / a kin that has players who know the game - that's usefull for grouping and gearing tips.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hoges

Love the idea Herja. I fear only the old heads of the moors are the ones that read the forums though. Really hope there is some new blood that will log on and read this and help improve their game :D

---

This is oh so true. It's great to see Herja is still playing this MMO and contributing to the community of the Crickhollow server. The game has changed so much, hopefully the PvP will grow and people stop caring about KD ratio and just trait 'Chuck Norris' and play full blown 'Honey Badger'.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blato

digging in threads from 2013 isn't exactly a good idea.

what you should do is level to 105, gear up and read some burglar guides or ask certain burg veterans on crick for rotations/tricks etc. (if you contact a PvE burg you might actually get worse than now).

oh, and find friends / a kin that has players who know the game - that's usefull for grouping and gearing tips.

---

Blato's right. Reading the old forum posts are of no use considering the dramatic amounts of change to the game/gear.