Just a thought: Maybe LotRO isn't doomed.

I always have a little bit of worry whenever one of the DOOM threads pops up that maybe someone knows something. Which is irrational becasue they pretty much never, that I've noticed, had any stats to back up the claim, just an attempt to read tea leaves.

I'm thinking the player council is a pretty significant tea leaf. One year terms with no one allowed to sit on the council for consecutive terms? That suggests to me that Turbine is planning at least several years ahead and they don't think (world events notwithstanding) the end is nigh.

My $.02

Moln,
Would you please reference your comment? I cannot figure out what you are talking about.

Thanks

Very nice observation and I will agree: LOTRO is not going anywhere soon...

However, there are Turbines Plan for LOTRO, WB's plans for LOTRO (which doesnt mean Turbine is aware of these plans), and the Markets plans for LOTRO... A perfect storm could close down the servers next week and dont think for a minute that they wouldnt sell subs and Xpacs right up to the very end.

I appreciate what you are saying and I too am heartened by the player council - As had been pointed out to me recently... the doom threads and complaints are not necessarily an unhealthy thing... it shows passion from the player base - however the tone of this passion is a different matter - that's the difference today and the little poison i'm concerned about.... we can debate - we dosen't haz to hate.


EDIT: @ Piratenell: http://www.lotro.com/en/game/article...player-council

there are always going to be doomsday prophets, but i will always just direct their attention to the hundreds of doom and gloom threads about EQ1 on eqflames...and then log into EQ1 and go raid with my old guild =D. LOTRO is not going anywhere.

The game isn't doomed, and it never was. I've been hearing doom predictions for 6 years.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nymphonic

The game isn't doomed, and it never was. I've been hearing doom predictions for 6 years.

---

I've been hearing doom predictions for MMOs far larger than this since 2005. Haven't been true yet. Won't be for LOTRO, either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nymphonic

The game isn't doomed, and it never was. I've been hearing doom predictions for 6 years.

---

Indeed... these continual doom predictions are rather like "End of the World Prophesies." They never come to pass so the adherents try to dream up reasons why we still actually exist while simultaneously manufacturing yet more doom prophecies. It's practically a damned self-perpetuating industry!

For some reason I'm reminded of:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0GFRcFm-aY
Sorry, I know it's not in exactly in context, but I couldn't resist.

I never thought it was doomed. People will be complaining about Turbine for another decade and reminiscing about the goold old days of RoR.

Thanks for the reference Dwarendele :o

I only hope that the Player Council doesn't doom Lotro. Knowing what people really think can be dangerous. I hope the Turbine people involved have thick skins and degrees in psychology.

Of course it's too late for Sapience, he's already bitter and cynical! ;)

The issue is of course how to maintain a player base that supports the product and allows for future development. Council isnt a bad idea, I dont think its really going to impact the game or decisions one bit but its a nice mechanism to create the illusion that the fans are empowered beyond thier consumption.

Im always amused a little by the unstated notion I find in a lot of threads that turbine dosent know what they are doing and or are flying by the seat of their pants. Its not said outright but Iget that sense that a lot of people really feel that way. AS if there isnt a 1-3-5-10 year business plan in place. Regardless the biggest thing that needs to be combated now is apathy and a council will do that. I certainly havent seen an out cry for tree's, dont recall overwhelming posts about an instance finder. Warsteeds? Mounted combat a hot topic in the SOA days prior to my coming?

I think they have plan and they are implementing it. Attempting to emulate aspects of other games as they go (which isnt a bad thing). So I ask myself "what else can they do with the game thats going to make me go WOW"

Wasnt the hytbolt dailies, moors new season was really more of the same just flipped sides briefly. Warsteed, ive looked at mine 3-4 times I think. Im guessing a new region with epic in the summer, another release in the fall, some instances class rewrites that wont change what your toon does just for you to grind something new to achieve the same end.

Cynical? yeah maybe but lotro is a decent game ive gotten a lot of fun out of it. It isnt doomed by a long shot but its not going to blow us away anytime soon IMHO. Sure we will get helms deep, are you expecting something amazing that they havent tried before? Council is a nice way to engage people keep them in the loop, but I think the best days are in the past.

Obviously it's not doomed, but in many ways, it's not that fun a game anymore.

Some of the changes have been better, like giving horses early, as opposed to 35. (That, more than anything, was what kept this game from being more popular. It was a nightmare having to walk everywhere)'

But abandoning the principles of the 3 tiers being equal (crafting, raiding, questing) and the whole LI grind have really sucked out much of the fun.

Skill trees though could drive out a lot of long time people. Will it get new people in its places? I guess that's the hope.

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...-and-new-ideas

Post date: feb 25th

total posts: 203

post per day average: 7.25


http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...-s-talk-Revamp!


Post date: feb 25th

total posts: 199

post per day average: 7.1



So why do we need a players council @ this time? Why are you picking favorites and giving special access when there is clearly no need to do so?

I for one will not be putting in an application.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moln

I always have a little bit of worry whenever one of the DOOM threads pops up that maybe someone knows something. Which is irrational becasue they pretty much never, that I've noticed, had any stats to back up the claim, just an attempt to read tea leaves.

I'm thinking the player council is a pretty significant tea leaf. One year terms with no one allowed to sit on the council for consecutive terms? That suggests to me that Turbine is planning at least several years ahead and they don't think (world events notwithstanding) the end is nigh.

My $.02

---

There are doom threads going back years and we are still here playing.
There are doom threads looking forward (like the one on trait trees) which have no basis in fact.
In short, there will always be doom threads, they are based on the assumption that because person (a) doesn't like feature (b), nobody will, and everyone will leave the game. Which, given the width of the player base and their styles is a big call. And history teaches us, unlikely to be true.

On every forum I am on there is at least one doom sayer. LOTRO isn't going anywhere, it's just being dumbed down and made easy for the casual player. Sorry, the fact is casual players out number hardcore players sufficiently for Turbine{or any game company} to sacrifice hardcore for casual. It may not be doom for the game, but doom for the players interest in it. If you are obsessed with raids or skirmishes and they are made easy to suit the casual player, that aspect of the game is doomed for you because you no longer enjoy it. The game is not doomed, just changing to suit the broadest spectrum of players. I'm sure people don't want to hear this, but the time of the hardcore gamers is waning. I see it all the time as more and more games get simplified and dumbed down to suit the casual gamers.

When a game gives you XP bonuses for not playing, it is definitely catering to the casual player.

Lotro isnt doomed, its jsut becoming a &&&& game.

The same way all the korean grander mmos arent doomed. IT's becoming a rng fat loot lottery, which is fine for some people and great for casual players that want to be able to dream that one day they will own fat loot.

But it's an insult to players that raid and are used to having good rewards for figuring out raid mechanics and doing good teamwork.

If you want ot know what I mean by &&&& game that isnt doomed, go play rappelz and then imagine that lotro could become that very soon if turbine doesnt start doing some thinking.

Well the license currently runs out next year, so it could well be 'doomed'. Though Turbine do of course have the option to renew till 2017, they haven't yet. (Or at least they haven't announced they have yet, which, if they have, is pretty darned silly).

Lotro will keep going for years the fact being there a few traditional MMO's getting made any more and those you don't enjoy the new style mmo will keep coming back to games like lotro .

Agree not doomed

Isn't doomed
Wasn't doomed last year
Wasn't doomed the year before
or the year before
or the year before
Or when GW2 came out
Or when SWTOR came out
Or when hello kitty island adventure had their expansion

The only thing that is doomed is my hope of ever getting a class item from sword halls.

Everything human is doomed, but what that doom is happens to be unknown now. I was there when SW:G closed (I do think SW:TOR helped, given the licensing issues). If that kind of thing does come to pass (license not renewed) then one of the first things to go will be subscription sales (there is no point to do it from the business' point of view) given that once it was clear to SOE that they wouldn't be able to continue, that's what they did (announced the end of subscription sales then quit renewing subs).

The only MMO that was doomed was the only game actually worth playing for lifetime for me. LotRO is not even close to brilliance that game had so I am sure it will last for many years to come.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Armitas

Agree not doomed

Isn't doomed
Wasn't doomed last year
Wasn't doomed the year before
or the year before
or the year before
Or when GW2 came out
Or when SWTOR came out
Or when hello kitty island adventure had their expansion

The only thing that is doomed is my hope of ever getting a class item from sword halls.

---

Oh you know that the next Hello Kitty expansion is SO going to be the death of this game! :P

When Rift came out, a few of my LOTRO friends left for a while to try it out. They're back.
When SWTOR came out, a lot of my LOTRO friends left for a while to try it out. They're back.
When GW2 came out, most everyone I know left for a while to try it out. And yep, here they are again. Ok, many are still splitting time between the two when previously they were all about LOTRO, but they're still paying their subs.

The thing I always wonder when I read the doom threads is why people feel the need to make those predictions. The game will end on some date, as all things do. Is it really so vital to have been the one who predicted the end date, or would it be more satisfying to know that one focused on getting all the fun possible out of it as long as they could?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArtemisNoir

Indeed... these continual doom predictions are rather like "End of the World Prophesies." They never come to pass so the adherents try to dream up reasons why we still actually exist while simultaneously manufacturing yet more doom prophecies. It's practically a damned self-perpetuating industry!

---

Talk to the fanboys of The Matrix Online, Asheron's Call 2, Spellborn, Star Wars Galaxies, Earth Eternal, Auto Assault, Dungeon Runners, Dragonica, Exteel, Tabula Rasa just to name a few. And City of Heroes were taking subscriptions up to the very day when it suddenly announced its closing.

Is LOTRO doomed? No, I don't believe so.
Were some of the doom predictions correct? History clearly says yes so dismiss them at your peril.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LadyDena

Talk to the fanboys of The Matrix Online, Asheron's Call 2, Spellborn, Star Wars Galaxies, Earth Eternal, Auto Assault, Dungeon Runners, Dragonica, Exteel, Tabula Rasa just to name a few. And City of Heroes were taking subscriptions up to the very day when it suddenly announced its closing.

Is LOTRO doomed? No, I don't believe so.
Were some of the doom predictions correct? History clearly says yes so dismiss them at your peril.

---

That's like saying that when WoW shuts down in 15 years that the doomsayers from 2007 were correct. Of course every game shuts down, but not because of any reason people tend to spout off.

I fully expect this game to be here for many years to come. Look at AC1 after all. It's not like it's super popular but they kept that going.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LadyDena

Talk to the fanboys of The Matrix Online, Asheron's Call 2, Spellborn, Star Wars Galaxies, Earth Eternal, Auto Assault, Dungeon Runners, Dragonica, Exteel, Tabula Rasa just to name a few. And City of Heroes were taking subscriptions up to the very day when it suddenly announced its closing.

Is LOTRO doomed? No, I don't believe so.
Were some of the doom predictions correct? History clearly says yes so dismiss them at your peril.

---

Asheron's Call 2 is currently free to play if you subscribe to Asheron's Call 1. :)

In the LOTR books, no one was worried that their world would suddenly disappear, they were just worried about how bad things would have been if Sauron dominated the world.

In LOTRO, things are pretty bad right now. Not everything, but for some of us the current state of the game is doom enough. This is our valid view of the game. But our speaking about this is pretty inconvenient for those who want to only say "nah nah see Lotro is still going" because to reply to legitimate concerns in the game is a lot harder. Concerns like performance issues, the memory leak, rubberbanding on MC, and how small the instances released in this expansion were (the ones that actually work).

If Turbine could actually put out a respectable full-sized expansion I would be the first to say things are great. I would be really, really happy because the game I love deserves better.

I know I am saying things that are negative, but why shouldn't I be able to voice my opinion on what I see happening, even if it not good. To me, it just doesn't make sense to be silent. I want Turbine to do better. Maybe some things are preventing them from putting out larger expansions, or fixing the performance issues - so I sympathize and realize it must be frustrating to them also that they cannot do these things.

Now, back to saying "nah nah these people are so dumb and wrong for predicting Lotro will end". Continue on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PirateNell

Moln,
Would you please reference your comment? I cannot figure out what you are talking about.

---

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...Player-Council!

Forums -- Official Discussions -- sticky at the top: We’re very pleased to announce the LOTRO Player Council!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cindir

In the LOTR books, no one was worried that their world would suddenly disappear, they were just worried about how bad things would have been if Sauron dominated the world.

In LOTRO, things are pretty bad right now. Not everything, but for some of us the current state of the game is doom enough. This is our valid view of the game. But our speaking about this is pretty inconvenient for those who want to only say "nah nah see Lotro is still going" because to reply to legitimate concerns in the game is a lot harder. Concerns like performance issues, the memory leak, rubberbanding on MC, and how small the instances released in this expansion were (the ones that actually work).

If Turbine could actually put out a respectable full-sized expansion I would be the first to say things are great. I would be really, really happy because the game I love deserves better.

I know I am saying things that are negative, but why shouldn't I be able to voice my opinion on what I see happening, even if it not good. To me, it just doesn't make sense to be silent. I want Turbine to do better. Maybe some things are preventing them from putting out larger expansions, or fixing the performance issues - so I sympathize and realize it must be frustrating to them also that they cannot do these things.

Now, back to saying "nah nah these people are so dumb and wrong for predicting Lotro will end". Continue on.

---

Of course you are entitled to your opinion. And, I would agree, there are definently performance issues for some people. However, they aren't affecting me personally, so I can't exactly count them as a negative when I'm playing the game. For others, sure, but it's not a negative for me(knock on wood.)


As for the other things, I just simply disagree with you. I've had just as much fun with RoR and its instances as I did with Moria. That's purely opinion, and I'm sure some people don't feel the same, but again, my fun level hasn't personally went down. My kins even more active than usual, so I can't complain about the social aspect either.

So, at least for me, I don't see any reason to say the game is on a downward path. I think it's fine. And, the game will do fine as long as most of us still feel the same. Not to say Turbine shouldn't be fixing problems, as they should, but to say any of these things are cause for LOTRO's death is overreaction.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sapience

Asheron's Call 2 is currently free to play if you subscribe to Asheron's Call 1. :)

---

Schweeeeet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by josh13333

That's like saying that when WoW shuts down in 15 years that the doomsayers from 2007 were correct.

---

Funny how you ignored all the other games with the time between the prediction of fail and the actual fail that were far less than 15 years. At least have the guts to acknowledge that when someone do have a point. Were doom predictions always bogus as was claimed by that other poster? Surely you can give an honest answer to that simple assertion.


To Sapience : About Asheron Call 2 : It *was* shut down, but then it was resurrected but all of people's old characters were gone. Yep, zilch and total wipe. So as far as most people's are concerned that game is basically dead.

LOTRO is not doomed. That's just nonsensical and unsupported by any form of evidence.

The game is still shifting and dynamic, it still has momentum, it still has goals and milestones set for the future being not just this year but also next year and beyond.

What would be sweet at this time or in the near future, is a conformation of nailing the IP - LOTRO's veritable Unique Selling Point - for several more years. That is something of a benchmark thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Loreineth

I've been hearing doom predictions for MMOs far larger than this since 2005. Haven't been true yet. Won't be for LOTRO, either.

---

There have been doom predictions since Ultima Online released in 1997 :p