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freeps are so op still after a year off nothing has changed, so very anti creeps I see.. rk and there tier 2 fire burns for 3500 dmg, vs creeps 500 max dmg on a crit that's real fair.... not
burgs are so op even stalkers cant compete. wargs do not dmg what so ever couple hundred vs freeps 2000, 3000,4000,13,000 dmg yeah ok creeps dead in seconds
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...256_nqlyaa.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by AYY_LMAO
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...256_nqlyaa.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by NigerianPrince
explains creepside
Creepside OOC is leaking out onto the forums again.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ppWV0FaTOZ...clean%2Bup.gif
stop freep flaming on a creep forum post
https://media.tenor.co/images/f1faa8...1d1f/tenor.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Noseblood
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Originally Posted by Noseblood
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Originally Posted by Noseblood
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Originally Posted by Noseblood
http://i.imgur.com/rsp94LI.pngQuote:
Originally Posted by Noseblood
http://i.imgur.com/XPBhm7w.png
https://static-cdn.jtvnw.net/emoticons/v1/134256/3.0Quote:
Originally Posted by Noseblood
Sure, if you're bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noseblood
http://i.imgur.com/KjH65Mv.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Noseblood
mits?Quote:
Originally Posted by XbammyX
50% physical mitigation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spilo
I'm fairly certain mitigation for medium classes, or just hunters, is bugged/broken.
50% tactical mitigation and I got hit for 11k with a Mephitic Kiss a few days ago.
I can't speak to whether mits are broken or not as I don't have any creeps myself to know what these skills hit for as a baseline. However, I regularly take VTs above 10k, mephitic between 8-11k, bestial claws between 6-9k, etc. I just assume all freeps run at or above the mitigation caps nowadays as we don't really have an option if we want to last longer than 2 seconds. I also just assume people saying creeps can't dps are just lacking the ability to put together fluid rotations and movements. The top-end players of each creep class can dps just fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by XbammyX
He's capped. I get the same results as him with 50% mits and 60% crit D.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spilo
My experience is exactly the same, on Champ on average I take hits for a third (at most) of what my Hunter takes, with a 10% mits difference... I no longer use 58% mits trait setups, but I'd be interested to see if that trait actually works as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by XbammyX
I know roughly what the baselines are, and it varies massively from creep to creep, but I regularly find myself taking massive hits on Hunter, the same numbers you see. Wargs are the worst, one or two pools and my mits appear to just disappear, despite that only removing 15%, Claws hits go well over the 10k mark.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurtful
Running below mits cap is just not an option anymore, I'm even considering going up to 75-80% crit D just because of all the Wargs. I see 80k LMs on Ark and they die in seconds due to no mits.
No critical defence. I take bigger hits as light armor wearer every now and then and I have quaranteed way higher critical defence than you do.Quote:
Originally Posted by XbammyX
No critical defence. Dev claws from behind hit me under 7k as 40% wearer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurtful
Really, why then with 60% Crit D do I also take similar numbers to them? As I (believe) I said in my post above, most creeps aren't continually hitting me for the ridiculous numbers (still high but not insane like 11k Mephs and 7-8k claws), but the decent ones do and it's not by any means uncommon.Quote:
Originally Posted by siipperi
Critical Def really does work now, and is very important, but there's still something very wrong with Medium armour mits, always has been, it's just never been quite this apparent.
Unfortunately that is not the case. I spend a ton of time on builds, and am always equipped with sufficent crit D. These numbers are with 50-60% crit D. What I think you may have misunderstood is that while they occur regularly, they are not the average across all creeps for these attacks. The issue is NOT my build. These are likely just situations of supposed glass creeps blasting big numbers. The result is likely a sub-10 fight. However, creeps always respond thinking these numbers don't happen on creep side and that creeps cannot output big numbers/dps. These instances show that creeps are more than capable of dropping freeps 30-60% morale in one shot just as max geared freeps are to unmitigated creeps etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by siipperi
Just to add to that:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurtful
Freeps can do this to unmitigated Creeps, Creeps can do this to fully mitigated and high crit D Freeps.
50% critical defence is relatively low but no way properly builded medium armor wearer gets hit over 6k with claws. Leading me to believe people dance over armor debuffs and doesn't over cap mitigations enough. I do however agree that creep damage is really high to the point that it's ridiculously hard to win even mediocre warg on light armor class (when behind claws hit regularly 6-7k). Sadly there are broken freep classes which are total faceroll on the other hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurtful
But that happens when Turbine/SSG listens clueless people who think lack of damage is problem on ettenmoors balance.
Creeps have to make immense sacrifices to go full glass cannon. A glass cannon Warg is going to have significantly less survivability than a non-glass Warg. As for a 20k non-dev VT, the only way that's possible is with a full glass build and Warleader buffs- even then I'm skeptical that he wasn't debuffed. I've taken 10-13k, but never a 20k (at least after U19.2).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethrildar
Again, we have to realize that these discussions really get nowhere. Dev Aim CA, is Cancer, Bestial Claws is Cancer, Hunter's easy DPS is dumb, and Spiders need the crud nerfed out of them. We all agree on that, and debating over minutia honestly is something I'm growing tired of.
While not all that important, I'll go ahead and post the next instances of me taking claws above 7k, etc. it happens semi-regularly with no puddle, debuffs, etc. 50-60% crit d may seem low to you and others, but there's no way a properly built freep is appreciably above or below that range. Below and you get wrecked even faster. Above and you're really fighting against the DR of the curve and sacrificing other stats.Quote:
Originally Posted by siipperi
I wasn't really referring to the 20k VT, that's clearly some odd circumstance, I don't see them that high but I don't raid so I probably don't get the regular full extent of debuffs that many other players may see, I don't doubt at all that 19k is totally common for those regularly fully debuffed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spilo
Too right, regarding going class cannon, there's no option for a Freep to lose mits and still expect not to insta-die. That said, it's a totally viable high-dps build for a Warg to trait 6 of one mit type and still chuck out insane levels of DPS compared to other Creeps, there's literally no trade-off worth having in which 6 mastery corrs. are even remotely comparable to traiting mits, so it's not like there's some tremendous DPS loss here.
For the record, the debate over what is and isn't op is an old one and I'm tired of it too, I just don't like hearing that it's some huge nerf losing out on the 6 mastery corruptions (that do next to nothing) where traiting 6 tac mit is so much more powerful. You're talking a 50-60% damage reduction over a 10% actual DPS increase, the two are just in a different league. Kind of the same as saying "poor hunters" if they lost 5% Quick Shot damage but gained Toxic Carapace as a result.
I've been gradually screenshotting some of the more hilarious damaging hits I've seen over the last few weeks, I've only taken a couple but I'll upload them later on when I'm home. I've only screenshotted the ones that are unreasonably high levels of DPS in equally unreasonable circumstances (i.e. I'm not even debuffed and I take 8k DPS for 4-5 seconds and then die still in the stun).Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurtful
Please, cry some more, I enjoy your tears
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Originally Posted by Ethrildar
http://i.imgur.com/ql1y2G6.png
Here's one for your collection - from today. 22k health, 28k phys mit build.
How silly of me to walk out of the rez far enough that this warg could pounce me during the 20 man rez camp.
http://i.imgur.com/23ooHzv.png
lol.
22?Quote:
Originally Posted by XbammyX
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Originally Posted by XbammyX
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Originally Posted by XbammyX
22k moral, complaining about warg damage, nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandCru
So many dlueded average players in this thread...
What was your Crit D? Dev magnitudes are pretty silly for creeps, tbh.
Unfortunately, morale has nothing to do with the magnitude of the hit he took. And let's be clear, most of us don't appear to be complaining that we're getting wrecked by creeps that are dealing big hits. In fact, most would admit creeps are still relatively under-powered overall. In my mind, it's being clearly demonstrated that creeps are more than capable of dealing comparable %-based damage as the often complained about big hitters from freeps. 50% of a target's morale is 50%, regardless of the number that produces the 50%. I agree with Spilo on this in that creating balance through critical/dev magnitudes can be a slippery slope for overall balance. They should really be focusing on boosting the baseline damage of creep skills and not attempting to create balance through specific skills/ridiculous magnitudes of those skills. Right now, there is/are 1 or 2 skills per creep class that keep them relevant in PvP. This is not the best approach for achieving long-term balance, in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagrash
Possibility is not Probability.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurtful
In the case of VT, it's just \o/
As a Creep through and through, i'm struggling to find the 'Creepness' in the toon 'BrianGriffin'.....couldn't you 'Mordor' it up a bit?.....
Haha. 22k is very low, but I can only assume that's more to prove the point that in a true glass cannon build you're two-shot material to a competent Warg, even with capped mits...Quote:
Originally Posted by XbammyX
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Originally Posted by GrandCru
22k is low, but you both appear to be missing the point... He's well overcapped on mits and took a 10k Claws hit lol, this isn't even incredible dps either, that's a relatively standard hit with a debuff or two.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagrash
A bit late, but as promised, some of the more lol-worthy (but of course completely reasonable) DPS parses I've had on me. Please note:
1. All of these are on my Hunter, with builds varying from 30k to 45k morale, ALL of them have 50% (over) capped FW/OC mits, and OVER 60% Critical Defence.
2. Not all of these are solo v solo, it's fairly easy to see which of the Wargs in these are not the soloing type. (1v1 confirmed too hard on FOTM Warg)
3. Most of these fights are wins for the opponent during the stun, this is with split-second reactions on my stun break, for which the animation usually ends right around 1 second after I die.
4. All of these parses will be MORE than they show here because the initial hit from stealth is masked, so anywhere from 2-10k damage is missing from all of these.
Here's a bundle of them, they're all totally fair levels of DPS of course, but I've highlighted some of the even more completely reasonable ones. Edit: I think 10,758 DPS is totally reasonable on a Freepside, raid-geared medium armour with high Crit D, it's not like Freeps only have 30-40k morale or anything... Oh wait...
http://i64.tinypic.com/6od7ab.jpg
Here's a Warg sustaining over 5.2k DPS on me for 12 seconds lol. For reference that's 200% of my morale pool, and I was denying positional for at least 2/3 of that time.
http://i66.tinypic.com/24lpmwp.jpgAnd here's a 14 minute log in which just Bestial Claws does the vast majority of the total damage taken, where Wargs were outnumbered by the numerous other DPS in the fight including BAs. Note the fair 10k hits (through a full buffed and capped mits Freep build with BiS gear, and the near 100% Crit/Dev rate.
http://i68.tinypic.com/5mlhq8.jpg
The point of the post is not how much health I have, but that I took over a 9k hit with 28k physical mit. I guess I was mistaken in assuming you'd be able to comprehend that.Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandCru
I've tried the 40k morale blue-line hunter build and its too filthy for me to continue using. 3v1ing creeps and doing 25k DPS over extended fights sounds fun but it actually isn't... it just makes me want to kill myself. Back to lowest possible morale, highest DPS builds for me.
see above.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagrash
My god someone with a brain. Lord help us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurtful
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethrildar
That warg doesn't even bother using mitigation puddle, just a regular pounce>eyerake>claws instadeath as soon as I walked 5 meters outside one-shot range.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethrildar
Assuming I had 30k health it would just mean he has to take the time out of his day to hit me with a maul>rend>claws and then I'd die. Must be difficult.
Hence the point of mentioning it in the said post.Quote:
Originally Posted by XbammyX
28k physical mit. that you, of course, had during the said hit (i.e. not debuffed)?Quote:
Originally Posted by XbammyX
QEDQuote:
Originally Posted by XbammyX
I personally use lowest possible morale and lowest possible mitigation, for a higherest DPS build.Quote:
Originally Posted by XbammyX
I am up for a real challenge and hence I opt for a Truerest Glass Cannon build.
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Originally Posted by Ethrildar
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Originally Posted by XbammyX
''highest DPS build'', obviously.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethrildar
Well, that's what instadeath typically does.Quote:
Originally Posted by XbammyX
It's just a game, to each his own taste and opinion ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by XbammyX
Having sub 40k morale these days especially as high rank automatically disqualifies you from any relevant discussion of high creep damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by XbammyX
You, like many others, are (unexpectedly) completely missing the point. Difference here is I think you know you're missing the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by siipperi
Situation here is player is complaining on same levels if creep would be complaining with 60-70k morale (if that low would be possible) and no defensive traits about how high freep damage is. Complaining about some classes damage is totally relevant but then posters bring up numbers where they take 20-30k damage, die and complain about high damage that creep do... No ####, you are naked on todays standards yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethrildar
tl;dr
first mistake was making 28k mit/22k morale build
get rekt quasi-leithiani hunter
I suppose. I'd rather not use a 40k+ morale blue line build though, personal preference.Quote:
Originally Posted by siipperi
https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/stea...16f80_full.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by The_Memes
You really got me there bud.
The problem with warg is if you do not break the stun, and the Warg is Glass, you're going to get wrecked. Under similar situations, a Hunter/Burg is going to absolutely blow up any Creep not traited Mitigations. The problem with the former is Bestial Claws and lack of Audacity, the problem with the latter is also how easy Burg/Hunter damage is to do. Run mitigations, run Crit Defense, and don't base complaints on either side for getting blown up in glass builds.
Exactly. The double standards of wearing 120k+ mastery and no defenses. Have ability to kill opponent in 1-10s and yet complain when you get rekt yourself. One can easily have 90k mastery and 40k morale even not having virtues on character or even close to min maxed character with PvE gear. Which in current PvP is more than enough damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spilo
I agree. Both need to be nerfed, none more so than blue line hunter. Shame I'm not on Arkenstone, or you on Landroval. I'd like to see just how filthy a 110k mastery 40k health blue line build is against a genuinely good warg.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spilo
the difference between building 22k morale as a hunter vs. 40k is that in situation 1: you die in the pounce, and situation 2: you lose 2/3 of your health in the pounce followed up by 5-8k bestial hits.
If you're 1v3ing wargs then you're fighting quadruple amputees IRL. I know Landy wargs are pitiful but you'd basically need to both catch them out of stealth and out of cool downs for you to win that. Or like I said, they're short-bus wargs.
With that said, 2 geared hunters shouldn't be able to wipe a craid. I really have no suggestions on how to fix it since the devs seem perfectly satisfied with just piling on content after content with no regard for how it will affect the rest of the game. If it were up to me I'd stop developing new content for a straight year just to fix all of this mess.
I had a 3.6 second 1v1 with a warg the other day. We were both out of stealth.
I also don't think you can build a 40k health, capped mits, capped crit D hunter with 110k mastery, I could be wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by XbammyX
Hold on, let me get this one straight...Quote:
Originally Posted by XbammyX
You are complaining that a well-built hunter with a proper set of tools such as raid gear and the correct set of essences is insanely overpowered, allowing you to win 3vs1 fights. Disgusted by it you self-nerf your own morale pool back to 2013 and then complain that you get killed in 3 hits?
So your idea of proper pvp is winning even when you are not at your best?
I can draw a parallel here with a warg complaining that his BC does not crit 100% when the relative trait is removed.
Warg DPS is broken, but what you are saying is silly at best.
Someone get this man a medal. Finally. Perhaps balmy will stop demonstrating this landroval creep ooc logic levelQuote:
Originally Posted by JustAnotherElf
dude. the point of the post was to show that wargs can hit 10k on something with capped mits/crit d. You completely missed the point of the postQuote:
Originally Posted by JustAnotherElf
We tried explaining that earlier on but were ignored because clearly capped mits don't work unless you have 40k morale ... ?? Lets just go along with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by hahawhat
They don't, you are terrible geared if they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by hahawhat
By the very definition of proof, posts in this thread have proven that with capped mits (that is, the maximum possible level of mits) you as a matter of fact, do take 10k hits.Quote:
Originally Posted by siipperi
What you're saying is literally this:
If you have capped mits, you are terribly geared.
This thread has gone from a mildly autistic trolling attempt to a full blown door-ripped-off-the-special-ed-room-allowing-them-to-escape situation real quick.
http://i64.tinypic.com/2dcabmh.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Noseblood
except, bammy linked a screenshot of him being hit for 10k, while having capped mits.Quote:
Originally Posted by siipperi
Eh wrong. He linked a screenshot of him having capped mits (how about his crit def btw.?) and a combat log with a 10k crit.Quote:
Originally Posted by plsno
While?Quote:
Originally Posted by plsno
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Originally Posted by Nazgulmeister
Hahahaha. Brilliant analogy.Quote:
Originally Posted by plsno
They deleted my posts :((((
https://i.imgflip.com/1ogexj.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by plsno
but in fractal's case replace freedom with virginity