VIP: Additional Benefits

The current benefits for VIP are reasonable, but could do with improving by introducing a few additional benefits:

- Update Hobbit Presents Especially Gold Hobbit Present Offering
Mithril coins, tomes of attack / max morale / defence, run speed, rally horns, stat tomes, rep accelerators, star-liits etc. are useful so should stay as is
Increase gold offerings so they are more relevant to current game e.g. 1g becomes 100g, 2g becomes 200g etc. for Gold (Weekly VIP) Boxes*
Replace dale man crams with “Superior Dale Man Crams” with increased stats to better suit end game & 30 minute duration
Limit Mathom hunter armour to silver boxes only (hurts getting this in your weekly gold box)
Add nicer stuff to the weekly Gold hobbit presents, Regular Key, Black Steel Key, Steed Selection Box, New Cosmetics, Housing Items, increased chance at getting Mithril Coins etc.

- Mithril Coin Allowance: (20 Mithril coins per month)

- Monthly Gift: A new housing item, cosmetic or steed exclusive to VIPs and lotro store. Additionally could even have pre-order items from past expansions such as the song bird, pesky door mouse, steed of the Hammerhand etc. These could be announced in advance every month to generate some hype and encourage people to subscribe even if it’s only for 1 month to get that particular item.

* by limiting the increased amount of gold to weekly hobbit presents (Gold/VIP) we limit impact on economy, provide VIPS with a small benefit and prevent abuse by someone creating lots of f2p accounts

[QUOTE=Knight.Arkenstone;783142 5]The current benefits for VIP are reasonable, but could do with improving by introducing a few additional benefits:

- Update Hobbit Presents Especially Gold Hobbit Present Offering
- Mithril Coin Allowance: (20 Mithril coins per month)
- Monthly Gift: generate some hype and encourage people to subscribe even if it’s only for 1 month to get that particular item.

I think this would a great idea. Your team was talking about already reviewing the items in the Presents, this would go a long way to improving them.

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Originally Posted by Knight.Arkenstone

The current benefits for VIP are reasonable, but could do with improving by introducing a few additional benefits:

- Update Hobbit Presents Especially Gold Hobbit Present Offering
Mithril coins, tomes of attack / max morale / defence, run speed, rally horns, stat tomes, rep accelerators, star-liits etc. are useful so should stay as is
Increase gold offerings so they are more relevant to current game e.g. 1g becomes 100g, 2g becomes 200g etc.
Replace dale man crams with “Superior Dale Man Crams” with increased stats to better suit end game & 30 minute duration
Limit Mathom hunter armour to silver boxes only (hurts getting this in your weekly gold box)
Add nicer stuff to the weekly Gold hobbit presents, Regular Key, Black Steel Key, Steed Selection Box, New Cosmetics, Housing Items, increased chance at getting Mithril Coins etc.

- Mithril Coin Allowance: (20 Mithril coins per month)

- Monthly Gift: A new housing item, cosmetic or steed exclusive to VIPs and lotro store. Additionally could even have pre-order items from past expansions such as the song bird, pesky door mouse, steed of the Hammerhand etc. These could be announced in advance every month to generate some hype and encourage people to subscribe even if it’s only for 1 month to get that particular item.

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+1 /signed

Great reasonable ideas :)

Excellent suggestion, but also, I think the reward items for silver and gold Hobbit presents should be completely different, or at least gold should be quantitatively better. Nothing worse than opening your gold present and finding items of less value than in your silver.

Edited one point after giving it further thought - the increased gold values should only apply to weekly VIP / Gold hobbit presents.
This would then have minimal impact on the economy, grant a small benefit to VIPs and prevent abuse of the system where someone could otherwise just create a lot of f2p accounts and farm hobbit presents.

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Originally Posted by Knight.Arkenstone

... Limit Mathom hunter armour to silver boxes only (hurts getting this in your weekly gold box)...

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At least that Mathom hunter armour is a lot more useful than that ONE regenerating potion I regularly find in my golden present. So far the golden present is certainly no reason to sub...

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Originally Posted by Knight.Arkenstone

... Add nicer stuff to the weekly Gold hobbit presents, Regular Key, Black Steel Key, Steed Selection Box, New Cosmetics, Housing Items, increased chance at getting Mithril Coins etc.

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I'd like that. :)

These are excellent suggestions, and I think more players would try VIP if implemented!

/signed

I hope SSG is reading this thread!

I agree

I hope that instead of raising the value of the gold gift from 2g to 200g, they can remove it and replace it with other useful items. Because more items in the game are better.

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Originally Posted by Derquin

that ONE regenerating potion I regularly find in my golden present

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yeah that's a slap in the face when that happens. They should make it 10x Rejuvenation potions.

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Originally Posted by Sebastian_Hedgehog

I think the reward items for silver and gold Hobbit presents should be completely different, or at least gold should be quantitatively better. Nothing worse than opening your gold present and finding items of less value than in your silver.

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I wouldn't say the need to be completely different (can simply alter the % chance of obtaining more desired items)
Definitely agree though , the Gold should feel special (something to look forward to opening), which atm it just doesn't.

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Originally Posted by Derquin

At least that Mathom hunter armour is a lot more useful than that ONE regenerating potion I regularly find in my golden present. So far the golden present is certainly no reason to sub...

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Omg. I hate opening up a gold present and finding a regeneration potion. Grrrrrr......

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Originally Posted by Nymphonic

Omg. I hate opening up a gold present and finding a regeneration potion. Grrrrrr......

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i'd like to see nudges on the silver box for VIP's......one for free more with mithril spent. I'd also like to see some VIP specific items or consumables in the gold box...nudges bought with mithril. Crazy suggestions include (account bound) 5x -10%attack duration 30min , and 5x -10%induction duration 30min, 5x +5% crit chance 30min....you get the idea......they could even be VIP store purchase only.....and if the t+c's say it has to be available in game , then make them drop at about the same rate as a black key on landscape (approx 0.01%)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Knight.Arkenstone

Gold should feel special (something to look forward to opening), which atm it just doesn't.

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Yes, at the moment it feels like 'just another roll of the dice' after silver.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Knight.Arkenstone

The current benefits for VIP are reasonable, but could do with improving by introducing a few additional benefits:

- Update Hobbit Presents Especially Gold Hobbit Present Offering
Mithril coins, tomes of attack / max morale / defence, run speed, rally horns, stat tomes, rep accelerators, star-liits etc. are useful so should stay as is
Increase gold offerings so they are more relevant to current game e.g. 1g becomes 100g, 2g becomes 200g etc. for Gold (Weekly VIP) Boxes*
Replace dale man crams with “Superior Dale Man Crams” with increased stats to better suit end game & 30 minute duration
Limit Mathom hunter armour to silver boxes only (hurts getting this in your weekly gold box)
Add nicer stuff to the weekly Gold hobbit presents, Regular Key, Black Steel Key, Steed Selection Box, New Cosmetics, Housing Items, increased chance at getting Mithril Coins etc.

- Mithril Coin Allowance: (20 Mithril coins per month)

- Monthly Gift: A new housing item, cosmetic or steed exclusive to VIPs and lotro store. Additionally could even have pre-order items from past expansions such as the song bird, pesky door mouse, steed of the Hammerhand etc. These could be announced in advance every month to generate some hype and encourage people to subscribe even if it’s only for 1 month to get that particular item.

* by limiting the increased amount of gold to weekly hobbit presents (Gold/VIP) we limit impact on economy, provide VIPS with a small benefit and prevent abuse by someone creating lots of f2p accounts

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Nice suggestions :) I'd like to see many of the gifts that are currently in the gold boxes, moved over to silver and never appear in gold boxes again. I'd also like to see useful tokens in the gold boxes, such as a gift token (where x amount of such tokens are required to purchase one of a selection of gifts (steeds, handy consumables, cosmetics etc) available at a hobbit NPC dedicated to hobbit gifting.

Make a new Mount-Box from past Fairs and put it as a low-chance Gold Present.

Hi everyone!

RedPanda here. You may have seen me on the anniversary stream. I just wanted to pop in and say hi and let you know that we are definitely interested in hearing more ideas on these things. We're not promising anything but we are here to listen.

I do have some follow up questions:

Hobbit Presents:
What are exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?
What are not so exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?

VIP Monthly Gift
I like this idea. It seems like cosmetics are of interest. Anything else?

Vip benefits:

game is extremely grindy for alts so it would be nice if VIP allows game to be less grindy for alts so here's few suggestions:

These only active for duration of VIP, after VIP expires benefits removed and player can use store/in game grind to upgrade them (same hard caps as everyone so no further P2W VIP benefits)
- Free virtue ranks (for example +5-10 ranks on max level, cap at Tier 20)
- Free stat tome ranks (for example all early game stat tomes till R10)
- Free Trait tree points (like Gondor trait points for free, like minas tirith DEED points, since those quest packs are already part of the VIP program)
- Some earlier questpacks unlocked - this is really convenient as a new player players have no clue what to purchase so just sub and get content free is clear and easy way to enjoy content easily.
- Few times per year VIP exclusive mount

- When legendary item system is going to be revamped (teased for past few months), make sure there is some kind of catch up mechanic for VIP players. So for example VIP players automatically gets 10 (or what ever is legacy system after changes) tiers of legacies for free as long as they stay VIP.




Hobbit presents:

Gold:

ADD:
- Essence reclamation scrolls
- black steel key
- imbued legacy replacement scroll
- Increase mark reward. 600, what ever is really outdated. Instance bosses drop easily 4k.



I don't know which these are part of, gold or silver but consider removing these:
-1x universal potion, should really be few of these if you want to give players these potions. 1 is just taking space in inventory.
- Regen food for high level players. Just useless, benefit it gives is working for characters with 4x less morale than on the level cap.



Imo SSG needs to look it this way. VIP should be convenience for players who don't want to stress with hassle of "what I need to purchase to enjoy the game". 15$ per month for easy access is fair and lets be honest most of old expansion packs aren't that pricy and most players purchase them from the sales anyway. And on top of that VIP should be way to reduce grind, especially for alt characters. Game shouldn't push you into store even if you are VIP, sure some pushing is fine ("like look what we got"), like additional virtues etc, but VIP really should mitigate some of that grind/need of store.

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Originally Posted by SSG_RedPanda

Hi everyone!

RedPanda here. You may have seen me on the anniversary stream. I just wanted to pop in and say hi and let you know that we are definitely interested in hearing more ideas on these things. We're not promising anything but we are here to listen.

I do have some follow up questions:

Hobbit Presents:
What are exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?

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Gold: mithril coins
Silver: marks

Quote:

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What are not so exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?

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Gold: regular mathom hunters armor
Silver: Dale Man's Cram...
I should go get my hobbit present and come back with more <exciting items.

Quote:

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VIP Monthly Gift

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Quote:

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I like this idea. It seems like cosmetics are of interest. Anything else?

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I'm not sure cosmetics are the way to go for monthly rewards. I have a hard time thinking of 12 cosmetics I reaaaaaaaaallllly want... that I don't have already.
How about a recipe that you can't get outside of monthly gifts? Maybe I'm just reminiscing about the excitement of the blackberry(?) tart recipe wwwaaay back in the day. Might have to have a box to select the recipe as some might not have the correct profession.

What i really want is a vip skill that is automatic earned. Mak it a toggle that increases all XP by 100% (or multiple skills, one for each xp type that can all b active simultaneously but would allow us to pick and choose if we dont want all at once). The toggle will make it so vips arent forced to use it. The skill either disappears or becomes unuseable when vip is cancelled. This would replace the current vip bonus event on the calendar that has no opt out. As a vip with lots of alts i have played this game a lot and the added boost would help speed up leveling through content ive seen a lot and a bonus weekend once every quarter is really not enough.

Id also like to see some love given to the destiny perks. More ways to earn and more perks to buy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SSG_RedPanda

Hi everyone!

RedPanda here. You may have seen me on the anniversary stream. I just wanted to pop in and say hi and let you know that we are definitely interested in hearing more ideas on these things. We're not promising anything but we are here to listen.

I do have some follow up questions:

Hobbit Presents:
What are exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?

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I second Mithril Coins & Marks.

Quote:

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What are not so exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?

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-Any sort of Mathom Hunter's gear. It's pretty worthless at end-game, and, because the boxes don't stack, they take up a *lot* of inventory space if you try to squirrel them away for use on another toon.
-Any kind of run/mount speed boost.

Quote:

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VIP Monthly Gift
I like this idea. It seems like cosmetics are of interest. Anything else?

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I might be in the minority, but I've reached my saturation point with cosmetics and cosmetic pets. If we get more cosmetics, we need a massive increase in the number of wardrobe slots (or split cosmetic weapons out of the closing wardrobe and store them in a cosmetic weapons rack). And I've found most of the cosmetics offerred lately feel like novelty or cosplay pieces, not actual cosmetics I'd wear around the world. While I loved the hedgehog, I have found other cosmetic pets to be less interesting - it almost feels like you all are stretching to come up with creatures.

Some alternatives:
-VIP-only furniture or bundles ](indoor and outdoor). I really like the Little Old Man Willow given out during the Scavenger Hunt - some of these types of things might be nice.
-New firework designs. Though maybe not as items, but as skills, so they aren't using up inventory slots.

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Originally Posted by Knight.Arkenstone

The current benefits for VIP are reasonable, but could do with improving by introducing a few additional benefits:

- Update Hobbit Presents Especially Gold Hobbit Present Offering
Mithril coins, tomes of attack / max morale / defence, run speed, rally horns, stat tomes, rep accelerators, star-liits etc. are useful so should stay as is
Increase gold offerings so they are more relevant to current game e.g. 1g becomes 100g, 2g becomes 200g etc. for Gold (Weekly VIP) Boxes*
Replace dale man crams with “Superior Dale Man Crams” with increased stats to better suit end game & 30 minute duration
Limit Mathom hunter armour to silver boxes only (hurts getting this in your weekly gold box)
Add nicer stuff to the weekly Gold hobbit presents, Regular Key, Black Steel Key, Steed Selection Box, New Cosmetics, Housing Items, increased chance at getting Mithril Coins etc.

- Mithril Coin Allowance: (20 Mithril coins per month)

- Monthly Gift: A new housing item, cosmetic or steed exclusive to VIPs and lotro store. Additionally could even have pre-order items from past expansions such as the song bird, pesky door mouse, steed of the Hammerhand etc. These could be announced in advance every month to generate some hype and encourage people to subscribe even if it’s only for 1 month to get that particular item.

* by limiting the increased amount of gold to weekly hobbit presents (Gold/VIP) we limit impact on economy, provide VIPS with a small benefit and prevent abuse by someone creating lots of f2p accounts

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by siipperi

Vip benefits:

game is extremely grindy for alts so it would be nice if VIP allows game to be less grindy for alts so here's few suggestions:

These only active for duration of VIP, after VIP expires benefits removed and player can use store/in game grind to upgrade them (same hard caps as everyone so no further P2W VIP benefits)
- Free virtue ranks (for example +5-10 ranks on max level, cap at Tier 20)
- Free stat tome ranks (for example all early game stat tomes till R10)
- Free Trait tree points (like Gondor trait points for free, like minas tirith DEED points, since those quest packs are already part of the VIP program)
- Some earlier questpacks unlocked - this is really convenient as a new player players have no clue what to purchase so just sub and get content free is clear and easy way to enjoy content easily.
- Few times per year VIP exclusive mount

- When legendary item system is going to be revamped (teased for past few months), make sure there is some kind of catch up mechanic for VIP players. So for example VIP players automatically gets 10 (or what ever is legacy system after changes) tiers of legacies for free as long as they stay VIP.


Hobbit presents:

Gold:

ADD:
- Essence reclamation scrolls
- black steel key
- imbued legacy replacement scroll
- Increase mark reward. 600, what ever is really outdated. Instance bosses drop easily 4k.

I don't know which these are part of, gold or silver but consider removing these:
-1x universal potion, should really be few of these if you want to give players these potions. 1 is just taking space in inventory.
- Regen food for high level players. Just useless, benefit it gives is working for characters with 4x less morale than on the level cap.

Imo SSG needs to look it this way. VIP should be convenience for players who don't want to stress with hassle of "what I need to purchase to enjoy the game". 15$ per month for easy access is fair and lets be honest most of old expansion packs aren't that pricy and most players purchase them from the sales anyway. And on top of that VIP should be way to reduce grind, especially for alt characters. Game shouldn't push you into store even if you are VIP, sure some pushing is fine ("like look what we got"), like additional virtues etc, but VIP really should mitigate some of that grind/need of store.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xhiu

What are exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?
- Gold: mithril coins
- Silver: marks

What are not so exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?
- Gold: regular mathom hunters armor
- Silver: Dale Man's Cram...
I should go get my hobbit present and come back with more <exciting items.

I'm not sure cosmetics are the way to go for monthly rewards. I have a hard time thinking of 12 cosmetics I reaaaaaaaaallllly want... that I don't have already.
How about a recipe that you can't get outside of monthly gifts? Maybe I'm just reminiscing about the excitement of the blackberry(?) tart recipe wwwaaay back in the day. Might have to have a box to select the recipe as some might not have the correct profession.

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All are brilliant suggestions. So here is my take on "Hobbit Presents."
They are actually poor replacement for the original Lottery System - which I realize was primitive itself.

The biggest question / issue is ... Hobbit Presents today are clearly aimed at the lower level player. When they were introduced with Update 11, in 2013, the level Cap was 85. Today it is 115, and except for the scaling Mathom Hunter's Armour, there is nothing apropros a level 115 player, or if there is, the percentage chance to drop is rediculously low to the point where I've never seen one.

That is basically saying -- forget about cosmetics -- high end players don't really care about them.

One presumes that the basic problem is -- the original Lottery System, was just that -- a random lottery. Hobbit presents by comparison are "gifts."
I don't know the original justification for them, and the WIKI did not record it, but my recollection is -- Hobbits love to give gifts to each others.
The FAQ doesn't say much of anything: https://www.lotro.com/en/game/articles/faq-hobbit-presents-2

I suspect the mechanic is a pretty simple randomly-generated, table-driven system.
Which is to say, there is no consideration for the Level of the character involved, or how LONG a player has been VIP (think in terms of the Anniversary Frames/gifts mechanics).

Therefore minimally, update the tables with useful contemporary items. And yes, there is a HUGE gulf between what items the Devs consider important compared to what the Players consider.
Obviously, the problem is compounded by the gulf between items below item level 300 and those at higher item levels - wherever the breakpoint is between player lvel 105 and 106.

My personal lists:
(See: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?511346-Hobbit-Presents-Know-the-odds&highlight=hobbit+gifts
for a list of all presents and their drop rates as of their relase in 2013, compiled by Fredelas.)

- What are not so exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?
* regular mathom hunters armor
* Rejuvenation Potion
* Tome of Finesse
* 3 Universal Power Potions
* Universal Toolkit
* Tome of Extraordinary Experience
* 5 Dale Man's Cram
* 3 +10% Run Speed Boost (90 min)
* 3 20% Mount Speed (90 minutes)
* 3 Combat Run Speed Boosts
* Fused Copper Relics
* Simple Rally Horn

- What are exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?
* Relic Removal Scroll
* Reputation Acceleration Tome
* Crystal of Remembrance
* 200 Mithril Coins
* Star-lit Crystal
* 1280 Marks

- Missing items
* Essence reclamation scrolls
* black steel key
* imbued legacy replacement scroll

My well thought out post timed out so the short and dirty:
Silver Hobbit Wold like:
gold
mathom blue
XP tomes
High marks

Don't like:
rally horns
low marks
low gold
A note on mathom armour- I know some posters say it's worthless at cap level but a lot of us aren't at cap and this armour helps.

Gold hobbit present would really like:
1+ gold min with chance at higher
chance at 1 extra virtue or trait slot
destiny points
stat tomes on occasion
good chance at mithril
Fine mathom armour

Am excited by a separate VIP monthly gift. We need a way to not only get people subbing but to keep them. Alternating nice cosmetics, a horse once in a while, housing items. Perhaps there is a way to link a chance at a super prize to the length of sub (at least 6 months). I'm a lifetimer and buy LP regularly but would sub my 2nd 'main' account regularly and sub other f2p accounts I have off and on, and buy LP, if these changes were made and the rewards were tempting enough. Especially if I could get regular xp tomes in the silver box. Only so much time to go around.

Not Exciting Silver:
Low gold/marks
Rejuvenation potion
Crams
Run/Mount speed boost

Exciting Silver:
Mathom armour (great for non-cap alts!)
High gold/marks
Mithril coins

Acceptable Silver:
Universal toolkit
Stat tomes
Buffs
~~~~~~~~~

Gold should have the real shinies, imo. This can include the Exciting and Acceptable Silver items but I'd love to see additional items, such as universal solvents, virtue tomes, housing items, cosmetic items, black steel keys. reclamation scrolls, and mounts added to the loot table on the /roll.

I get that one rejuv potion often enough on a Gold present that I'd never use MC to buy more.

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Originally Posted by SSG_RedPanda

Hi everyone!

RedPanda here. You may have seen me on the anniversary stream. I just wanted to pop in and say hi and let you know that we are definitely interested in hearing more ideas on these things. We're not promising anything but we are here to listen.

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Welcome to the forums! More blue names are always welcome, regardless of their ability to make promises!

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I do have some follow up questions:

Hobbit Presents:
What are exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?
What are not so exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?

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Hobbit Presents:

Exciting drops:

• Mithril Coins
• Stat Tomes (though, it'd be MORE exciting if you'd replace it with a pick-box like the Store gives, rather than a bound specific tome drop that might not be of use to the character you get it on)
• LI goodies (crystals, legacy tier upgrades BUT not relics and IXP)
• +100% Mark Acquisition boost
• +100% Craft XP boost
• Tome of Extraordinary Experience
• Scroll of Perfect Crafting Lore
• Reputation Acceleration Tome
• Possible addition idea: Pick a mount (as currently found in level 20-100 Lootboxes) but with updated selection of mounts (hasn't been updated in 5+ years I believe).
• Possible addition idea: Pick a pet (offering selection of LOTRO store pets, would need to be implemented because it doesn't currently exist).
• Possible addition idea: Tome of Exceptional Experience (+200% XP, already exists but currently only available as store purchase).
• Possible addition idea: Premium Housing Writs.

Underwhelming drops (from level cap perspective):

• IXP runes (too small amounts to be worthwhile)
• Pile of Copper/Silver/Gold scraps: amount of gold they yield hasn't been updated in forever, and is meaningless for level cap players
• Mathom Hunter gear: while decent for levelling characters, these are worthless to level cap characters and just take up inventory space
• 1x Rejuvenation Potion: while Rejuvenation pots are useful in some cases (they don't share a cooldown with normal in-game Power potions), 1 is just too small an amount. Increase to x10 at least to make it a nice drop.
• Random Relic Packs: worthless to endgame players, could be replaced with a Mordor relic pick box?
• Marks: the amount is too small at level cap.
• Dale-men's Crams...
• 3x Universal Morale/Power potion: Morale potion is utterly useless, Power potion is useful but 3x is too small an amount.
• Scroll of Finesse: the amount of Finesse it gives at level 115 is laughably low. Update the item or just delete it already.
• Shards: irrelevant at level cap

A fix for most of those underwhelming drops could be to have a different pool of items for level cap characters only, containing none of the 'underwhelming' listed above and instead extra endgame relevant items like:

• Imbued Legacy Replacement Scroll
• Black Steel Key
• Essence Reclamation Scroll
• Northern Strongholds Essence box
• Class Trait Point tome (as a VERY rare drop)
• +1 Virtue Rank-up
• Universal Solvent [5-pack]
• Stat Tome selection box

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VIP Monthly Gift
I like this idea. It seems like cosmetics are of interest. Anything else?

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Besides cosmetics (as in, cosmetic armour and maybe weapons) you could consider:

• New character portrait frames (currently only a few different ones exist: basic, VIP (perma-unlocked if you sub once), Yule festival, North Ithilien Herbalism, and the year 1 through 11 ones).
• Premium Mounts (store exclusives), existing or new ones. You have the tech for this since you once did it for the Steed of the Eldar. Could also contain old Festival mounts currently only available through Mithril purchase while the correct festival is active, etc.
• Cosmetic pets!
• Special Housing decorations: notably ones that port characters or apply debuffs or produce (worthless but still funny) ingame items. Could be new ones, could be old ones that are no longer earnable through gameplay or store exclusive ones.
• Special titles (could be related to ongoing ingame events or releases).
• Emotes.

Misc.

You could also look at making the VIP program more attractive to players by offering much greater travel utility. For example, give active VIP's:

• Free Mithril Quest travels (currently cost 1 Mithril Coin/use, or 5 Mithril for the latest release area). These allow a character to instantly travel to a quest objective and are very useful for speedy quest completions that otherwise involve a painful amount of running around.
• Free Stable Master Collection travels: the game has this quite underused feature that allows characters to travel to any discovered stable master in the game from anywhere, for a fee of Mithril coins (I believe the current cost is 2 Mithril Coins/travel). Making this feature free for active VIPs would give them limitless travel utility throughout Middle-earth!
• Reduce the cooldown of all 'Return To', 'Travel To' and 'Milestone' skills to 1 minute (the default cooldown on all of these is 1 hour, which can be reduced on a per-character basis through LOTRO store purchases) for active subscribers.

Another idea worth considering is alleviating some of the endgame grind (which is insanely tedious for alts) by offering perks such as:

• Toggle skill (not an equippable item since that takes up an equipment slot) that increases earned XP from all sources by 50% and all reputation gains by 25%.
• Toggle skill that increases non-combat run speed by 15% (stacking with other boosts, but NOT usable in Ettenmoors).
• Increase all Virtue ranks on active VIP characters by 4 or 8 ranks (temporary Virtue rank increase exists ingame as it appears on some Lootbox jewellery drops so this should technically be possible)
• Grant active subscribers an additional Trait Tree Specialization slot. (The default is two per character, additional ones can be unlocked at the price of 100 Mithril each, per-character purchase.)

Those perks would be removed if the player stops their sub!

The problem with LOTRO's VIP program is that it offers great value to levelling players, but doesn't have enough to draw all the level cap players in if they don't do freepside PVMP. I think you would see improved sub revenue if you sat together with the Systems team and had a chat about what kind of time sinks and store bypass options they offer, and granting at least some of that to subs by default. For example in the current endgame, a monthly Ash of Gorgoroth allowance and 3x Black Steel Key/month would seem like worthwile VIP perks. These would require updating when the endgame undergoes significant changes though. It's not a nice feeling as a subscriber to be met with endgame grinds that have store bypass options, but get none of those as part of your sub. Other games offer bonus gear or rewards to active subs who participate in endgame content to keep them motivated to pay their subs; for example SWTOR has a system that lets active subs continue to earn XP from all activities, and instead of levelling up they earn reward crates containing items ranging from cosmetics to endgame gear and even basic tier raid drops. Sub exclusive, of course ;)
I recently cancelled my LOTRO subscription because it was offering nothing of notable value to me as an endgame player who doesn't do a lot of PVMP. I don't need the low level quest packs and the high level Expansions such as HD and Mordor aren't included in the VIP program anyway. I was basically paying monthly for the mobile mailbox and the 500LP, so might as well cancel the sub and only buy LP when the store has something I really want then (in those rare cases where I don't earn enough LP from actual gameplay first).

Cosmetics are always welcome, BUT with the limited inventory/wardrobe space it's really becoming a problem to store all this stuff.
I wish we could save all these skins like in WoW, Rift, GW2 etc, but I'm not sure if this is within technical capabilities here.


For new VIP perks, personally I would like to see something like a "reputation accelerator".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SSG_RedPanda

I just wanted to pop in and say hi and let you know that we are definitely interested in hearing more ideas on these things. We're not promising anything but we are here to listen.

---

The only thing I want from my subscription is access to all the story content. No arbitrary "everything but expansions" nonsense. If I'm paying a sub, I deserve everything the game has to offer. LOTRO did this before Mines of Moria and between Helm's Deep and Mordor, and y'all can do it again any time you feel like it.

Quote:

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Hobbit Presents:
What are exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?
What are not so exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?

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Hobbit Presents are a gambling scam, just like lootboxes, and LOTRO needs to get rid of them ASAP before they expose SSG to legal liabilities.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Knight.Arkenstone

The current benefits for VIP are reasonable, but could do with improving by introducing a few additional benefits:

- Update Hobbit Presents Especially Gold Hobbit Present Offering
Mithril coins, tomes of attack / max morale / defence, run speed, rally horns, stat tomes, rep accelerators, star-liits etc. are useful so should stay as is
Increase gold offerings so they are more relevant to current game e.g. 1g becomes 100g, 2g becomes 200g etc. for Gold (Weekly VIP) Boxes*
Replace dale man crams with “Superior Dale Man Crams” with increased stats to better suit end game & 30 minute duration
Limit Mathom hunter armour to silver boxes only (hurts getting this in your weekly gold box)
Add nicer stuff to the weekly Gold hobbit presents, Regular Key, Black Steel Key, Steed Selection Box, New Cosmetics, Housing Items, increased chance at getting Mithril Coins etc.

- Mithril Coin Allowance: (20 Mithril coins per month)

- Monthly Gift: A new housing item, cosmetic or steed exclusive to VIPs and lotro store. Additionally could even have pre-order items from past expansions such as the song bird, pesky door mouse, steed of the Hammerhand etc. These could be announced in advance every month to generate some hype and encourage people to subscribe even if it’s only for 1 month to get that particular item.

* by limiting the increased amount of gold to weekly hobbit presents (Gold/VIP) we limit impact on economy, provide VIPS with a small benefit and prevent abuse by someone creating lots of f2p accounts

---

Agree pretty much across the board with this. Would maybe change one thing for VIP benefits.

For VIP's who have less than 5 years time as VIP: 500 LP and 15 Mithril Coins per month.

For VIP's who have 5 years or more time as VIP: 1000 LP and 30 Mithril Coins per month, and a special cosmetic given quarterly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SSG_RedPanda

?

VIP Monthly Gift
I like this idea. It seems like cosmetics are of interest. Anything else?

---

Anything to make the game more alt friendly. i want to take my alts through the storylines, not deeding thousands of mobs over and over again. Maybe 2 virtues per deed instead of one? Or keep the deeds exactly the same but be able to choose the virtue? Just anything that makes things more alt friendly would be good for Vips.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by furtim

The only thing I want from my subscription is access to all the story content. No arbitrary "everything but expansions" nonsense. If I'm paying a sub, I deserve everything the game has to offer. LOTRO did this before Mines of Moria and between Helm's Deep and Mordor, and y'all can do it again any time you feel like it.

Hobbit Presents are a gambling scam, just like lootboxes, and LOTRO needs to get rid of them ASAP before they expose SSG to legal liabilities.

---

I'm not sure if you are trying to give constructive criticism or not. You really think the WB lawyers didn't give that a solid look through before implementing them years ago?

As for the subscription, that's all your subscription covers is the non-expansion content. LOTRO has never done that at any point pre-f2p. Since the launch of f2p, the sub has only ever given you the non-expac content. So you get Eriador, Lorien, Great River, Enedwaith, Wildermore, the Gondor content and North Mirkwood. You have to pay for Moria, South Mirkwood, Isengard, East Rohan, West Rohan and Mordor. I really wish people would stop trying to fight this as though they had two twigs to prop together as a foundation for their argument.

And I have no problem with having to buy expansions. Even WoW, which is sub-only, charges subscribers for the new content (ie: Battle for Azeroth).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Caanjaal

Agree pretty much across the board with this. Would maybe change one thing for VIP benefits.

For VIP's who have less than 5 years time as VIP: 500 LP and 15 Mithril Coins per month.

For VIP's who have 5 years or more time as VIP: 1000 LP and 30 Mithril Coins per month, and a special cosmetic given quarterly.

---

Do you mean VIP's whose account age is 5+ years? Or VIP's who have actually been subbed for 5 years in total? The latter might be hard to reach and track.

In my personal opinion, I am pretty strongly against giving different benefits to different VIPs. All should be treated equally, including the lifers. Whether your account and sub is a day old or 11 years old, the perks should be equal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SSG_RedPanda

Hi everyone!

RedPanda here. You may have seen me on the anniversary stream. I just wanted to pop in and say hi and let you know that we are definitely interested in hearing more ideas on these things. We're not promising anything but we are here to listen.

I do have some follow up questions:

Hobbit Presents:
What are exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?
What are not so exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?

VIP Monthly Gift
I like this idea. It seems like cosmetics are of interest. Anything else?

---

Thank You for getting involved in the discussion.

The monthly gift would definitely be a big win for us. I also like the idea of having a barterer (boar fountain in bree) where you can exchange your monthly gift for a SPECIAL VIP TOKEN and use them to trade for another gift or a selection of premium consumables which are only available in the LOTRO store (Black steel keys / Tome of Physical Mitigation / Tome of Tactical Mitigation / +5 Hope Token etc.). You could also have collect 12x Special VIP Tokens and redeem it for a unique code which grants you 1 months free VIP membership which can be used to extend your VIP or be given to a friend.


Items which are useful / exciting to get in hobbit presents

• Mithril Coins
• Tome of Defence
• Attack Tomes
• Max Morale Tomes (this item scales, but would be better as 5% morale increase as stats went up a lot recently)
• Run Speed Boosts
• Rejuvenation Potion (but make this x10 as 1 is disappointing)
• Reputation Acceleration Tome
• Scroll of Perfect Crafting Lore
• 100% Mark Acquisition (90 minutes)
• Marks (but need to be increased)
• Stat Tomes (make this a selection box & account bound)
• Relic Removal Scroll
• Enhanced XP Supply
• Tome of Extraordinary Experience
• Simple Rally Horn
• 20% mount speed
• Combat Run Speed Boosts
• Star-Lit Crystal (if LI system is due to change though, maybe skip this)
• Legacy Tier Upgrade (if LI system is due to change though, maybe skip this)
• Crystal of Remembrance (if LI system is due to change though, maybe skip this)

Items which are disappointing to get in hobbit presents

• Dale Man Crams
• Decorated Heritage Rune of Knowledge
• Fused Iron Relics / Fused Age Relics / Calenard Relics
• Random Relic Pack
• Landscape Soldier Token
• Scroll of Finesse (needs to be scaled or removed)
• Universal Morale Potion
• Universal Power Potion
• Skirmish Mark Boost
• Copper / Silver / Gold Coins (too low to be significant, but increasing may result in hobbit present farming)
• Universal Toolkit
• Mathom Hunter's Armour
• Fine Mathom Hunter's Armour
• Worn Symbol of the Elder King (change to Blemished Symbol of the Elder King, non bound)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave

In my personal opinion, I am pretty strongly against giving different benefits to different VIPs. All should be treated equally, including the lifers. Whether your account and sub is a day old or 11 years old, the perks should be equal.

---

Agreed. There should be no difference in VIP benefits whether you are 1 day old or 11 years.
Let's not forget those of us who had lifetime / founder accounts and then got screwed out of them by the codemaster / turbine transition via small print (still have the receipt and everything)
Furthermore the proposal is to reward all VIPs and incentivise others to subscribe, not create a divide.

All of it sounds fantastic, especially the posiblity of the pre order bonuses.

One thing I would like to suggest is maybe account wide mounts and or pets.

Find it extremely annoying that if I want a certain mount from the store I need to spend 2k LP for each of my characters. The same is for the 2016 yule mount that I got on my champion but can only have on him as I created characters after that event.

Same could be suggested for account wide frames, like the Yule frame.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SSG_RedPanda

Hi everyone!

RedPanda here. You may have seen me on the anniversary stream. I just wanted to pop in and say hi and let you know that we are definitely interested in hearing more ideas on these things. We're not promising anything but we are here to listen.

I do have some follow up questions:

Hobbit Presents:
What are exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?
What are not so exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?

VIP Monthly Gift
I like this idea. It seems like cosmetics are of interest. Anything else?

---

Thanks for dropping by. It's always great to see a SSG name reading our thoughts and suggestions. I'm late to the party, but you can see lots of great posts above mine here already.

Please drop things like Crams, universal potions, run buffs etc from Gold. Put them into silver if they really need to be in the game, but players craft this stuff for most part.

Cosmetics are always welcome in my gameplay, thought I have to agree with others that inventory space regarding cosmetics has become a real issue, especially since more and more items have become account bound over the last year. What would be really nice IMO as a VIP monthly gift is a chance at a consumable token, to boost RNG rate for let's say 24 hours.

Hobbit Presents:
Exciting items to get from Gold/Silver are Mithril Coins, Crystals of Remembrance (if you don't have access to Court of Seregost instance), otherwise the Select-a-mount or +100% Boost scrolls for Marks, or Experience, etc.
Not so exciting items to get from Gold/Silver are Universal Toolkits (At a certain point your entire account has a horde of them), Mount Speed Boosters (on accounts that already have +78% Riding Pack, makes this useless), and Daleman's Crams.

VIP Monthly Gift
Tomes of Defence, Tomes of Attack, Fall-imunity scrolls, etc. ***Please, make these rewards also available for VIP Creep players to choose/benefit from.****

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave

And I have no problem with having to buy expansions. Even WoW, which is sub-only, charges subscribers for the new content (ie: Battle for Azeroth).

---

Exactly, WoW is sub-only. If I want to play WoW, I have no idea but to pay whatever Blizzard wants me to pay. I have no choice in the matter.

With LOTRO, I have a choice between sub+expansion or F2P+expansion. So why should I pay $99/year for a subscription when I'll have to pay another $40-120 on top of that to get the expansion content when I could just sub for a month to get the one-time unlocks and then buy the Super-Special-Mega-Deluxe version of the next expansion pack?

Nothing SSG could put in the subscription other than the expansion content itself makes the subscription a better value proposition than making lump sum payments for the expansions as they come out. Especially with the way Mordor was handled, not being available for LOTRO Points until months later.

The purpose of Hobbit presents is to make people come back and log in on a daily basis. However, it's never done that, because there is nothing really desirable in them. You need an item that is attractive and super rare. You really just need 1 such item, but it has to be something that people can actively use while playing the game, not just something that you have, but you can't remember where you stashed it. It also has to be something to display.

So what could this be? It could be a cool merchant tent that you can set up in a city. It would come with a personal store NPC that sells your stuff much like the AH. Make this item pretty rare so that these tents are not all over the place.

Another possibilities might be a mini mûmak mount, cosmetic weapons that existed in the game at some point but are no longer available, permanent tracking tomes for specific creatures, hunting knife that let's you gather the corpses of beasts for extra hides, incoming healing buff food exclusive to Hobbit presents, etc.

Items that are exciting to get from hobbit presents:
100% Boost (Craft XP, Mark Acquisition, XP)
Tomes of Defense
Reputation Acceleration
Mithril coins
Symbols of the Elder Kin
Scroll of Perfect Crafting Lore
Attack Damage
Stat Tome Selection Boxes
The occasional Rally Horn

Items that are not exciting:
Everything else honestly.



I especially dont like those pile of copper/silver scraps. They are nice for low level toons, but on my high level toons they are so insignificant and just take up an inventory slot.

I'd say that the loot-pool for random Gold Hobbit Presents should be changed completely (since they are weekly for VIP players).

I think that it feels very underwhelming to consistently get "Silver Hobbit Present Rewards" for Gold after Gold after Gold, week after week after week. RNG can be -very- finicky sometimes.

I feel that Gold Hobbit Presents should have its own loot-pool that -guarantees- ---something--- -good- for each weekly Gold Present opening. That would add more incentive to be VIP and make it feel more exciting and worthwhile.

It should be -impossible,- for example, to get -1- morale / power regen potion from a Gold Hobbit Present, or 3 in-combat Run Boosts, or Dale Cram.

It really should be something ---good--- from a pool of equally good stuff- like the 200 MC's or as suggested by others, an imbued-legacy replacement scroll, or maybe something like the 50 Gold sell-item from that 1 Variag quest in North Ithilien, or 3,000 marks, or what have you. I also like the idea of having a super-rare reward from a Hobbit Present: but other good stuff should be made "less rare" if you open a Gold. A Gold should feel far more "Golden"- not a "Silver" in disguise.

It should feel more exciting and worthwhile to open a "Gold Hobbit Present" once per week as a VIP perk :D

As to the questions: I'd say that I agree with most of the list's of favorable versus not-so-favorable Hobbit Present rewards in this thread. I do like the Mount Speed boosters- they add on top of the 78% buff and its helpful to be able to ride a normal mount almost as fast as a warsteed sometimes (especially for navigating towns and cities without rubber-banding)- but they, to me, are good for Silver Presents.

If something like Joetzim's idea of the Merchant Tent can't work in a city, I'd say it would make a fantastic housing item, unique to VIP players that only VIP can get: to have a tent with a personal vault and AH would be so awesome for crafters (among many others!) at their houses.

I'd also would love new housing items, like a replica of Aragorn's Pavilion Tent, fully furnished, as an awesome enormous-slot reward. I'd also love rare chances at getting something like Felegoth's giant Elf Statue's, the bigger crystals, etc. etc. etc. There's lots of cool ideas out there for VIP players opening Hobbit Presents :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by furtim

Exactly, WoW is sub-only. If I want to play WoW, I have no idea but to pay whatever Blizzard wants me to pay. I have no choice in the matter.

With LOTRO, I have a choice between sub+expansion or F2P+expansion. So why should I pay $99/year for a subscription when I'll have to pay another $40-120 on top of that to get the expansion content when I could just sub for a month to get the one-time unlocks and then buy the Super-Special-Mega-Deluxe version of the next expansion pack?

Nothing SSG could put in the subscription other than the expansion content itself makes the subscription a better value proposition than making lump sum payments for the expansions as they come out. Especially with the way Mordor was handled, not being available for LOTRO Points until months later.

---

I concur that any additional buffs should not be retained after the sub drops. Too much remains free as it is. But I still do not agree that the expansion should be free to vips.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave

But I still do not agree that the expansion should be free to vips.

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I'm in full agreement with this. Expansions are really big, almost game in themselves. Not only that, once you buy an expansion, the content stays in your account for the life of the game, and it counts toward all of your characters. and at the most, they are released once a year, if not two.

I see no problem with a ViP having to buy an expansion.

Lots of good suggestions here! Here are some of mine, regardless of the chance they'll actually be implemented.

Wishlist:

- All pre-expansion content is permanently unlocked with first subscription. Now that all the pre-Moria stuff is around a decade old at this point, I think it could be used to incentivize purchases to get folks deeper into the game, rather than remain premium purchases themselves.

- All classic expansions unlocked for duration of VIP subscription. Mines of Moria, at the very least. Expansions are basically VIP deadzones as far as content, so why not add them so players don't have to alternate between VIP and expansion purchases, since there's a lot of "bridging" quest packs like the Great River.

- The ability to port directly to all five player neighborhoods for duration of VIP.

- The ability to port directly to all the main player hubs for the duration of VIP. To the Prancing Pony at the very least, since that area is where a lot of the seasonal festivals and player events take place.

- Bonus Reputation gained while questing.

- Monthly Gift: A vip-only quest-thread with a monthly special reward. In a kind of Bingo Boffin, but not only with cosmetic rewards.

And please, since years the Quick Post service is waiting for a special uniform. It is no exaggeration, since years the full time employees must improvise in this important urgent case of matter.
Please hear our call!

Take for example the Universal Toolkit (UT). As a 10-year+ player with multiple accounts and multiple servers combined after the mergers, several of my servers have inventories of unused UTs. But a few of my 'minor accounts' (from the days of 8 characters to make a Kinship) have not had as much play time and lack those inventories. Consider removing the UT from the potential gift table for any Hobbit Gift recipient say Level 40 or above (perhaps even an Level 30 cutoff). Some of the other smaller gifts that simply don't impact the end-game user might be 'phased out' by levels the same way. Gifts of more coin, perhaps a new tier or two of Mithril Coins (add 100 and 300 coin gifts to some tiers to the 50 and 200 gifts current) and other more end-game friendly items could be put into the gift tables as the gift recipient reached a higher level range.

A monthly gift of greater value seems to be a good idea, but I wonder if it might be made an option? Say a player could accept a monthly gift (and this would be from a very benevolent set of gift tables) the first week of the new month, but that would 'consume' his weekly gifts for the full month (or perhaps at any time but 'consuming' the next 4 weekly gifts). That could allow the monthly gift tables to include some fairly high-value items without being quite so inflationary. TBH, some of the gifts discussed here seem excessive for a weekly award or at a very low percentage, but might make more sense on a less frequent basis. And on a monthly basis, the RNG percentages for these really good items could be higher than on a weekly award.

Bottom line is IMO the gift tables could use a review and an upgrade, especially at the higher levels. And adjusting the gift tables to remove the UT (and other gift items) above a certain level would still allow a player with a wide range of characters to seek one of those items as a gift, simply by selecting a lower-level character to receive their gift that day. An optional monthly gift would add a new player option to the game as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Filousia

And please, since years the Quick Post service is waiting for a special uniform. It is no exaggeration, since years the full time employees must improvise in this important urgent case of matter.
Please hear our call!

---

Seconded!

First time poster here, but played on and off since Moria.
You want to know what will bring a HUGE number of people back and make the game seem less intimidating to new players? Take the model that most sub MMO's use and make all of the expansions free with the sub except the most recent one.
I know my opinion means little and i have nothing but anecdotal evidence, but i know so many people, both potential new players and potential returning players, who just cannot make the commitment to throw down the absurd price to cover all the expansions this game now has. There is just too many now. It currently sits at $150 to be up-to-date with this expacs of this game. Imagine if WOW did that?
Do what WOW (hiss) and other sub-based MMOs have done. Keep the f2p business model you currently have, but make it so the sub unlocks all of the expacs save for whatever the latest one is. It's a successful model. Heck, increase the sub by a dollar or two if you have to.
Something comparable would be the ESO business model and i think we can all agree they are doing well for themselves.
Time this with a big announcement with all the Gaming/MMO sites and i really think this will bring in a huge wave of new/returning players.
Honestly, the only other thing that would work to bring in a large number of people is a new game engine, and we all know that ain't happening!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Valamar

- What are not so exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?
* regular mathom hunters armor
* Rejuvenation Potion
* Tome of Finesse
* 3 Universal Power Potions
* Universal Toolkit
* Tome of Extraordinary Experience
* 5 Dale Man's Cram
* 3 +10% Run Speed Boost (90 min)
* 3 20% Mount Speed (90 minutes)
* 3 Combat Run Speed Boosts
* Fused Copper Relics
* Simple Rally Horn

- What are exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?
* Relic Removal Scroll
* Reputation Acceleration Tome
* Crystal of Remembrance
* 200 Mithril Coins
* Star-lit Crystal
* 1280 Marks

- Missing items
* Essence reclamation scrolls
* black steel key
* imbued legacy replacement scroll

---

^ 100% agree with this (though I don't mind the run speed boosts).

IMO from the above quote the unexciting items (mathom hunters armour, potions, dale man's crams etc.) should only be silver gifts and not have a chance to drop for gold gifts at all, instead the gold gifts should be the "end-game" items listed above as the exciting and missing items (would add scrolls of empowerment as well) such as star-lits, relic removals, mithril coins, essence scrolls etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SSG_RedPanda

I do have some follow up questions:

Hobbit Presents:
What are exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?
What are not so exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?

VIP Monthly Gift
I like this idea. It seems like cosmetics are of interest. Anything else?

---

It's really good to see some SSG response to this kind of thing. I play very rarely now, but little things like this really draw my interest (in playing more I mean).

For Hobbit Presents - the only two items that I've gotten (going off memory, not a chart of possibilities) that I find worthwhile are coins and mathom hunter armor. I think if I played more often, I'd be happier with speed boosts and food. I think cosmetics (including mounts, pets, clothes, housing decorations, maybe even rep cosmetics) would be really cool.

Also, any item that could help reputation would be really nice. A good bit (and I probably mean "the vast majority" here) of my frustration and not-playing comes from all the rep-gated content. As an example, I just finished getting kindred with the Grey Company this week - so I could finally buy a horse that I've had the rep-coins to purchase for years. Years... actual years. It just makes me not want to play. And there are probably 20+ factions where I'm in the same boat. I'd rather not play than have to grind rep.

As an altoholic I definitely agree that the game does require a lot more work to make new characters playable than many MMOs do.

While all of us can benefit from LOTRO points, their is *less* need for a subscriber (VIP) to grind them character after character after character so this is one area where it makes sense to differentiate between someone who pays for a subscription and someone who pays by microtransactions ....or not at all.

Most of what I can think of to make it easier for the second, or tenth, or 50th character is already sold in the store so they wouldn't be willing to give it for free, however. Virtues, trait points from class deeds, trait points from big battles, instant level 50 or 105 for example.

I would like a VIP discount on things like that, which both encourage subscriptions and encourage store purchases. But I don't have the data to know if that would help or hurt the game. If many of us buy these things already lowering the price would reduce revenue and *discourage* subscriptions because we would need fewer LOTRO points.

Fluff .....How about VIP only housing areas in areas that have been much requested but never given like Rohan or Lothlorien. They don't even need to be premium housing though that would be nice.

I believe that the best option would be benefits that are accesable during VIP period and after closing subscription the benefits would closed.It is not very fair to go VIP only once and get permant item forever in your account especialy for cosmetics like the Horse you gave some time ago and i know that this benefits more the premium players like me but that gave me the motivation to became VIP only for 1 month.Thats why the benefits are important to be exlusive to VIP players during VIP period and after that mast be closed.For example the protrait frame should be removed after closing sub. In conclusion, i understand that giving permant gifts to players after go sub even for 1 month can give you money fast but i believe that you can seperate the items and benefits from that and VIP players need to have motivate to keep their subscription for more than a motnh and they need to feel more special. After all they guarantee monthly income.

Also i have some thoughts aswell of benefits.

VIP Benefits:

1) If it is possible to make all pre order expantion Cosmetics,horses and Decoration items accesable to VIP during VIP period but after closing subscription those items would be removed from account (bound to character).
2) An amount of Mithril coins would be good idea i believe 10 per month is enough since they get 500LP every month.
3) Very extreme but i believe you can remove all the standar houses in Eriandor (hardly none actualy buy those) or keep very very few and instead create new houses bigger than deluxes and ofcourse smaller than Gondor's and make them available only during VIP period.
4) About Hobbit presents people already gave some good suggestions like reputation accelerators.
5) Make an event accesable only for VIPs like Bounters boundy event that VIPs can donate some tokens every week to something and the top donators can have their names on it for a week and ofcourse the vendors can have some exclusive items to buy like cosmetics stat tomes decorations and whatever.
6) You can give a 5-10% out of combat run speed buff during VIP period without using tomes.
7) Different cosmetics and emotes or horses accesable only to VIP period.
8) VIP players can have an option of showing their selfs in dots in the maps (with or without showing names).
9) Every VIP player during subscription transform all their horses into 68% not downscale from 78% if you have the buff ofcourse.
10) Give an item that can be found in vendors for each area in lotro that gives special informations about the area you are in like book with some art pages in and maybe some secrets and the special of these books would that the devs can change little informations whenever they can so the books can look like more alive and feel special(available ofcource only to VIP during subscription time).

In my personal experience ettenmoors in the best benefit for being VIP but subscription mast benefit every player and not only PVMP lovers ;)

Great thread, great suggestions! Sorry not to be more specific but my desires have already been expressed by others. :D

I would keep Silver boxes as is. It is ok for some things to be more exciting than others.

I would revamp gold boxes. They should have their own unique loot table that should have much more valuable items. To balance this I would make it so you cannot purchase additional boxes. You are limited to 1 per week as the VIP perk.
Ideas:
Pick a mount box (this needs to be changed to BoA, not BtC like it currently is)
Pick a state tome box
End game legendary items starlit crystal, crystal of remembrance, pack of legacy up scrolls (needs to be more than 1...)
Mithril coins
Large amount of marks (5k+)
Pick a pet box
Pick a virtue +1 box
Unique cosmetics
Unique housing items

Obviously that loot table would need to be bigger to have enough items to keep people interested week after week, month after month, but those are some ideas.

For VIP perks, I would love a permanent rep boost. Since you increased the costs of Empowerment scrolls and rep accelerators it would be nice to not have to use marks I need to buy SoE's on rep accelerators.
I would also love ANY reduction to LI grind as a VIP perk (discount SoE for example). ANYTHING to reduce this stupid grind of getting a minimum of 400 SoE for EVERY ALT I want to play at end game...

Other possible VIP perks that are not HUGE, but nice benefits:
Permanent stackable +1 hope
Permanent stackable +5% run speed
Free or discounted repairs!
Discounted Mithril Coin travel costs in new areas where the cost is 5 MC

What Id love to see in regards to Gold/Silver hobbit gifts is a separate loot table for each. For example last thursday I rolled for my silver hobbit gift and got 1 rejuvenation potion...fine. Rolled for my gold and got...1 rejuvenation potion again! So even though its supposed to be a GOLD gift - the identical item was received (and useless).

Most people here have posted fantastic ideas and mine run similar to theirs. I love seeing Mithril Coins as a gift. Personally I also like the Mathom Hunters armour since despite having 5 cap level toons, I also have 4 that are still levelling and that gear is great for them.

Things Id like to see:

(I cant remember if these are already in Hobbit Gift loot table but..) SOEs, Starlits, Crystal Of Remembrance, Scrolls of Delving, Rep Tomes, Pick a Mount/Pet/Housing Item box, Black Steel Key

Things Id prefer updated/changed:

The mark/medallion reward is pithy. Needs to be increased x 10 at least. Same with pots (power/morale/regen)...for any toon even past level 50 the current ones are useless. Either remove them entirely from loot roll or make it so we get 5 or 10 at a time instead of 1.

Gold/Silver reward is also miniscule and even for my baby alts doesn't do a whole lot. When you've been playing for any length of time, money is not an issue - I have more than I can spend in game!

Stat Tomes being made into a "pick-a" box, so I dont end up with 9 tomes of Vitality 11, that I cannot use cause I need Vit 1-10 first.

Landscape Soldier Token, Soldier summonings, and Crams I find entirely useless and I wouldnt fret were they to be removed.


VIP BENEFITS
Some really great ideas here again. Mithril coins are always wanted, I'd love to have those.
VIP only housing items (I adore my housing)
I like the cosmetics idea however as mentioned by others...we are at a serious lack of space. Im full up at 310 wardrobe slots and have filled an additional section of shared storage for cosmetics. Maybe Im a hoarder, maybe not...but the cosmetics in this game are fantastic and I can't say no! That being said, many of us really dont have any more room. So I'd actually prefer an increased wardrobe allowance over additional cosmetics at this time.
And also as mentioned, something to ease LI grind perhaps. Weekly SOE? Increased Mark/Med reward from FI? Something...anything lol. Im sure others can think of more applicable ideas xD

Lastly....THANK YOU for asking us! <3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SSG_RedPanda

Hi everyone!

RedPanda here. You may have seen me on the anniversary stream. I just wanted to pop in and say hi and let you know that we are definitely interested in hearing more ideas on these things. We're not promising anything but we are here to listen.

I do have some follow up questions:

---

Hobbit Presents:
What are exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?
Armour, although the higher levels characters are missing Light of Earendil :)
Mithril Coins (haven't gotten any in a very long time, but this is always a great gift.
I like to get Star Lit Crystals or Crystals of Remembrance or Relic Removal Scrolls
Would love to get Essence Reclamation Scrolls or Universal Solvents.
Reputation Acceleration I like.

What are not so exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?
Universal Crafting Tools (I now have several saved up for characters I will probably never create, so I just destroy them now; maybe only have these for lower level characters?)
Combat Run Speed Boosts (I immediately trash these)
Tome of (Will, Agility, Vitality, Fate, and Might) that require me to have used 6 other tomes before I can use this one.
Universal Power potions.
Shards ( I don't think I have ever used any shards).
100% Mark Acquisition


VIP Monthly Gift
I like this idea. It seems like cosmetics are of interest. Anything else?
If the Weekly VIP Hobbit Presents are improved I don't think I would care about getting a monthly VIP gift. But I am not against more gifts. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SSG_RedPanda

Hi everyone!

RedPanda here. You may have seen me on the anniversary stream. I just wanted to pop in and say hi and let you know that we are definitely interested in hearing more ideas on these things. We're not promising anything but we are here to listen.

I do have some follow up questions:

Hobbit Presents:
What are exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?
What are not so exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?

VIP Monthly Gift
I like this idea. It seems like cosmetics are of interest. Anything else?

---

Im going to suggest something that wont be popular...before you give us more VIP benefits how about making the ones we currently get VIP exclusive. I get aggravated when I see here on the forums or in world chat people telling others to just "subscribe for a month" to unlock VIP benefits and then drop sub.

Make it so that if they drop their sub...they lose the benefits that were part of the sub.

Absolute worst Hobbit Present:
+10% Combat Run Speed Boost.
Any single or double digit number of shards, and possibly triple. It takes thousands to do anything useful at any level.

Let's see, checking my vault on ONE server, things I don't need from Hobbit Presents:


1: I seem to have 190, yes one hundred and ninety, +10% Run Boost tomes.


2: I seem to have accumulated 120 +5% Attack Damage tomes.


3: Then there is the 45 Combat Run Speed Boost feathers ...


4: 52 Tomes of Defense ...


5: 106 Scrolls of Max Morale and Power


6: Only 11 Landscape Soldier Tokens.


7: 21 Scrolls of Finesse


8: 152 Dale-Man's Cram


9: Plus I have two spare Universal Toolkits


10: 46 Soldier's Summoning books...


I don't really remember exactly where all of these items came from, but I know most are from Hobbit Presents.


PS: I like Mathom Hunters armor for my alts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SSG_RedPanda

Hi everyone!

RedPanda here. You may have seen me on the anniversary stream. I just wanted to pop in and say hi and let you know that we are definitely interested in hearing more ideas on these things. We're not promising anything but we are here to listen.

I do have some follow up questions:

Hobbit Presents:
What are exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?
What are not so exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?

VIP Monthly Gift
I like this idea. It seems like cosmetics are of interest. Anything else?

---

Thank you for this post RedPanda.

Exciting hobbit gifts I've received are:

* Mithril coins.
* Attack damage tomes.
* Too many to try to remember.

For a monthly Vip gift, as well as the 500 LP's, I'd like to see:

* Gold Signets to barter for the teal level 115 shield and weapons.
* Black keys.
* Your choice of a Vip class mount box, similar to the pick a mount boxes only account bound class mounts.
* (Rare) One month Vip code that can be used or gifted to a friend. (I'm lifetime vip so I would gift them).
* Current raid (Whatever the current raid is) bound to account armor box.
* Free gold hobbit gift box with Vip rewards.

Thank you for the opportunity to suggests potential monthly Vip gifts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seschat

Absolute worst Hobbit Present:
+10% Combat Run Speed Boost.
Any single or double digit number of shards, and possibly triple. It takes thousands to do anything useful at any level.

---

Ditto to the combat speed boost.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saintjoan

* Gold Signets to barter for the teal level 115 shield and weapons.

* Current raid (Whatever the current raid is) bound to account armor box.

---

Please, don't offer instance rewards in these VIP benefits/hobbit presents. It encourages people to not run the content...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by siipperi

Hobbit presents:

Gold:

ADD:
- Essence reclamation scrolls
- black steel key
- imbued legacy replacement scroll
- Increase mark reward. 600, what ever is really outdated. Instance bosses drop easily 4k.



I don't know which these are part of, gold or silver but consider removing these:
-1x universal potion, should really be few of these if you want to give players these potions. 1 is just taking space in inventory.
- Regen food for high level players. Just useless, benefit it gives is working for characters with 4x less morale than on the level cap.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valamar

My personal lists:

---

- What are not so exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?
I disagree and like the following:
* Rejuvenation Potion (But needs more than just one)
* Tome of Finesse
* Universal Toolkit
* 3 Combat Run Speed Boosts
* Fused Copper Relics
* Simple Rally Horn

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valamar

- What are exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?
* Relic Removal Scroll
* Reputation Acceleration Tome
* Crystal of Remembrance
* 200 Mithril Coins
* Star-lit Crystal
* 1280 Marks

- Missing items
* Essence reclamation scrolls
* black steel key
* imbued legacy replacement scroll

---

Anywho, I got tired of reading.

Useless:
Crams
xp boosters (although kill deed boosters are lovely!)
Crams

Notes:
Piles of coins needs upgraded and are very handy for lower level players
Universal Pots and Rejuv Pots are good but we should get more than one at a time (if I need to use them in a fight I often use more than one at a time)
Scrolls are good but need to be more than one at a time.
Rally horns are good but need to be more than one at a time (as they are usually used in trios)
I like the good Mathom Armors when I out-level my travels too much but they would be better if they were stackable, even if you had to visit an npc to stack/unstack to get around the game engine limitations.
Those tools kits rock but one can easily get too many of them, so make them tradable or limited to lower level toons opening the boxes. If you are going to mess with them, give them a slight upgrade, too.
NEED to add a Black Steel Key and more end-game LI stuffs.
Speed boosts are actually handy at times, esp if one is using a Kill Deed Scroll at the same time.
Eliminate any 15m-30m scrolls. They should be from 45m-90m in range.
Add a rare account-bound Stone of the Tortoise
Add $tore points to gold
Add housing writs to gold
Make a weapons version of the Mathom Armor Box but make it vendor-trash nicely so that end-gamers can use it like a pile of coins but lower levels can get some use out of them.

Monthly gift or semi-annual gift can be a code for a free store cosmetic/housing item of a certain category so people can choose what they want.

I have also noticed that the main reasons against free cosmetics is the fact that the Wardrobe is full. I have a few shields by no cosmetic weapons in my wardrobe and it is nearing it's limit already.
WE NEED MORE WARDROBE SLOTS!

Did I mention that Crams are useless?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SSG_RedPanda

Hobbit Presents:
What are exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?
What are not so exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?

VIP Monthly Gift
I like this idea. It seems like cosmetics are of interest. Anything else?

---

Of the current I can remember: red remove - green keep.

Heritage Rune ?
Enhanced XP Supply ?
Relics ?
Landscape Soldier Token ?
Marks ?
Pile of Silver Scraps Tiered ?
Universal Healing Potion Rejuvenation Potion Scaling ?
Scroll of Finesse Scaling ?
Shards ?
Tome of Defence ?
3Universal Morale Potion ?
3Universal Power Potion ?
100% Craft XP Boost ?
Skirmish Marks Boost ?
Crystal of Remembrance ?
2Random Relic Pack ?
Legacy Tier Upgrade ?
50Mithril Coin ?
Pile of Gold Scraps Tiered ?
Relic Removal Scroll ?
Reputation Acceleration Tome ?
Scroll of Perfect Crafting Lore ?
Tome of Extraordinary Experience ?
Tome of All Stats ?
Universal Toolkit ?
Mathom-hunter's Armour ?
Fine Mathom-hunter's Armour ?
+10% Run Speed Boost (90 min) ?
+5% Attack Damage (90 min) ?
20% Mount Speed (90 minutes) ?
Combat Run Speed Boosts ?
Dale-men's Crams Scaling ?
Simple Rally Horn ?


VIP Monthly gift -

Anything but cosmetics please... Leave cosmetics in the festivals and give something universal that folks can use for what they like. My suggestion would be Mithril Coins - that way you can spend them on cosmetics if you wish. Also. increase the monthly stipend... 500LP doesn't really do much nowadays.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lordthebruce

Im going to suggest something that wont be popular...before you give us more VIP benefits how about making the ones we currently get VIP exclusive. I get aggravated when I see here on the forums or in world chat people telling others to just "subscribe for a month" to unlock VIP benefits and then drop sub.

Make it so that if they drop their sub...they lose the benefits that were part of the sub.

---

You are right that would be hugely unpopular.. I would strongly recommend against this, and I'm saying that as someone who has been VIPs for years (and occasionally on multiple acccounts). We want to encourage more subs, but not by taking away things that others have had for the past 7 years or so, ever since f2p become a thing. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lordthebruce

Make it so that if they drop their sub...they lose the benefits that were part of the sub.

---

Disagree - the proposal is to provide additional VIP benefits not reduce them.
Taking away something that’s been in place for many years will only result in players being driven away from the game.
Also someone may have been very loyal, but due to hard times have to drop their subscription losing out on their monthly gift. I don’t see why they should be penalised double. This also reinforces having a barter and VIP Token system mentioned earlier, so when that person is able to afford VIP again they can go back and trade for something they may really want and have missed out on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rimenuir

Please, don't offer instance rewards in these VIP benefits/hobbit presents. It encourages people to not run the content...

---

Indeed, plus those of us who hit up the content and earned our items lose out for no reason getting a VIP gift that’s of little to no use to us.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valamar

That is basically saying -- forget about cosmetics -- high end players don't really care about them.

---

I disagree, everyone cares about cosmetics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Knight.Arkenstone

Disagree - the proposal is to provide additional VIP benefits not reduce them.
Taking away something that’s been in place for many years will only result in players being driven away from the game.
Also someone may have been very loyal, but due to hard times have to drop their subscription losing out on their monthly gift. I don’t see why they should be penalised double. This also reinforces having a barter and VIP Token system mentioned earlier, so when that person is able to afford VIP again they can go back and trade for something they may really want and have missed out on.



Indeed, plus those of us who hit up the content and earned our items lose out for no reason getting a VIP gift that’s of little to no use to us.

---

some wonderful suggestions coming through. really positive to see it. what I would add is that sometimes being VIP gives a benefit that is hard to put a price on or cannot be sold (say the stable system scenario). Extra benefits for VIP or hobbit presents can include ease of play or quality of life benefits such as 'VIP only rez circles in much better and more locations' and 'reset milestone cooldown token' for those times when you just need to jump and jump again. These may seem like silly suggestions (off the top of my head) but a suite of useful play enhancing things is a/the major part of being VIP . So there it is, VIP could offer more 'value added' quality of play benefits , via destiny hobbit or latent benefit, without overly impacting the store sales or content traded items and the overall business model/income stream generators. Obviously Vip is one of those streams and 'the more the merrier'.

This is a great thread! I’ve been a VIP for years and the Gold Hobbit Present is a frequent disappointment. Adding considerably better Gold Hobbit Presents would be a great incentive to subscribe.

Hobbit Presents:

What are exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?

• Mithril coins
• +100% Craft XP boost
• Reputation Acceleration Tome
• Relic Removal Scroll
• Tome of Extraordinary Experience (great for alts)
• Crystal of Remembrance
• Star-lit Crystal
• Marks
• Gold Mathom armour

What are not so exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?

• Regular Mathom hunter’s armor
• Runes
• Random Relic Packs
• Shards
• Rejuvenation Potion
• 3 Universal Power Potions
• Universal Toolkit
• 5 Dale Man's Cram
• +10% Run Speed Boost (90 min)
• 20% Mount Speed (90 minutes)
• Combat Run Speed Boosts
• Fused Copper Relics
• Simple Rally Horn
• 1x universal potion

Add to Gold Hobbit Presents:

• End Game Essences
• Essence reclamation scrolls
• Black steel key
• 1 extra virtue or trait slot
• Mordor relic pick box
• Universal Solvent [5-pack]

VIP Monthly Gift

• Pick a mount, including war steed skins
• Pick a pet
• Premium Housing Writs
• A set of dresses for females

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SSG_RedPanda

Hi everyone!

RedPanda here. You may have seen me on the anniversary stream. I just wanted to pop in and say hi and let you know that we are definitely interested in hearing more ideas on these things. We're not promising anything but we are here to listen.

I do have some follow up questions:

Hobbit Presents:
What are exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?
What are not so exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?

VIP Monthly Gift
I like this idea. It seems like cosmetics are of interest. Anything else?

---

I will say I like to get rally horns, though if they dropped in stacks of 5 from a gold box, that'd be a whole heck of a lot better than just 1. Not all VIPs solo or are only at end-game. It can be very handy when leveling lower-level alts to have some rally horns to summon your friends to you. There aren't nearly enough mustering horns on landscape.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave

I will say I like to get rally horns, though if they dropped in stacks of 5 from a gold box, that'd be a whole heck of a lot better than just 1. Not all VIPs solo or are only at end-game. It can be very handy when leveling lower-level alts to have some rally horns to summon your friends to you. There aren't nearly enough mustering horns on landscape.

---

I agree. Seems many posters here are end-game players in Kinships with Taxi Drivers (Hunters).

I see a lot of people not liking my favoritish gifts of the various potions, so if you are going to remove them from Gifts make them craftable, esp. the rejuvenation pots. Lower levels often have to do group content solo and pots and scrolls and more pots are the only way to get through it, no matter your L33T Skilz

So many great suggestions here. Is it possible to create VIP spaces around the game (like Ale Association or trade guilds) that only VIP players can enter? This would allow access to special vendors or perhaps a new transportation method limited to only subscribers? The biggest boost my alts could get is access to everything in my main's wallet or bound items, if VIP accounts could be able to share between characters a bit easier than free accounts I'd feel like I was getting a lot for my $.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave

You are right that would be hugely unpopular.. I would strongly recommend against this, and I'm saying that as someone who has been VIPs for years (and occasionally on multiple acccounts). We want to encourage more subs, but not by taking away things that others have had for the past 7 years or so, ever since f2p become a thing. :)

---

Ditto to this. One thing in an MMO that you NEVER, EVER do , is take away things from a player base that they have had for years. It's bad business.

A mithril coin allocation per month sounds good to me for one.

Being a lifetime member, some nice things would be appreciated for my long service, maybe like a nice suit of heavy armour for my level 115 Captain that would be an exclusive design for Lifetimers. Perhaps a token for a set for the first time, and you spend some coins for another token if you want to.

I also like the sound of some nice housing items, new paint or floors. With some furniture or plants.

I do also like the sound of a VIP area, like a private club where we have exclusive access ( a bit like Club 33 in the Disney parks.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SSG_RedPanda

Hi everyone!

RedPanda here. You may have seen me on the anniversary stream. I just wanted to pop in and say hi and let you know that we are definitely interested in hearing more ideas on these things. We're not promising anything but we are here to listen.

I do have some follow up questions:

Hobbit Presents:
What are exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?

---

Gold:
- Mathom Armor should always be "Gold" items.
- Mathom Armor should have LoE stats post level 105.
- Higher level tier stat items such as +AGI tomes XIII, etc
- Universal Tools that are "sturdy" and "faster".
- Tier 10 "teal" essences regularly.
- Tier 10 "gold" essences if lucky.

Silver:
- Mathom Armor with LoE stats post level 105
- Tier 10 "purple" essences regularly
- Tier 10 "teal" essences if lucky.

Also would like to see this:

Mathom present have a chance to reward a "Coinage Chest", awarded based on your level, e.g. 75-85 yields a Riddermark Coinage Chest, 86-95 yields a Westemnet Coinage Chest, 96-105 yields a Gondor Coinage Chest, etc.... when you open one such chest, similarly to "pick a mount" you get a choice of reward. The Riddermark Chest would contain Eastemnet and Wildermore coins AND an option to pick coins from any previous zone.... and each chest increase would yield more options. So the Gondor Chest would allow you to pick one of 30-ish currencies including Minas Tiritith coins all the way down to old middle earth zones.

Quote:

---

What are not so exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?

---

Crams, Potions, Toolkits.... although I always keep the toolkits for alts, it would be nice if they were tradable so you could sell them if they start clogging up your inventory.


VIP Monthly Gift
I like this idea. It seems like cosmetics are of interest. Anything else?[/QUOTE]

- 100 Mithril Coins in addition to the 500 LPs we get.

I think a monthly gift should be a recurring gift, that is always there, and a true perk of something. It shouldn't be a gamble such as the Mathom gift where you get a random something and you hope for a chance of what you want. Make it something permanent and truly interesting. 100 Mithril Coins strikes the right balance, that is about 3 per day if you are doing quick-returns to old quests. Or the occasional 15 coin revive, the 5 coins for new quests etc.... to buy some additional powerups for your LI's etc.... but not high enough for you not to want to buy more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SSG_RedPanda

Hi everyone!

RedPanda here. You may have seen me on the anniversary stream. I just wanted to pop in and say hi and let you know that we are definitely interested in hearing more ideas on these things. We're not promising anything but we are here to listen.

I do have some follow up questions:

Hobbit Presents:
What are exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?
What are not so exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?

VIP Monthly Gift
I like this idea. It seems like cosmetics are of interest. Anything else?

---

@RedPanda

I was just wondering if any further progress has been made following this thread?

I know hobbit presents have been adjusted slightly (different mathom hunters armour), but for the most part feel exactly the same.
I'm aware that Legendary Server is due to be released, but this is not something that will interest every subscriber. A lot of us like to play the latest content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SSG_RedPanda

Hi everyone!

RedPanda here. You may have seen me on the anniversary stream. I just wanted to pop in and say hi and let you know that we are definitely interested in hearing more ideas on these things. We're not promising anything but we are here to listen.

I do have some follow up questions:

Hobbit Presents:
What are exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?
What are not so exciting items to get from Gold/Silver?

VIP Monthly Gift
I like this idea. It seems like cosmetics are of interest. Anything else?

---

tho it sounds a good idea i have to say no to anything that has to do with the preorders, exclusive items or deeds items!
PLZ no more lempas, no more rally horns, less mathom armor boxes!!!

Things I'd like to see in Gold Presents:


Only gold mathom armor (nice for when I'm too lazy to log my Tailor to make a set for an alt)

Mathom Jewelry box (I also get lazy about logging my jeweler)

Upgraded Universal Toolkits and (or at least) unbind the old ones

Black Steel Keys

Fluff items, like the Hobby Horse, a special VIP mount, and much of what others have already mentioned


Things to remove from ANY Hobbit presents:

Crams

Combat run speed boosts

Crams

Lastly, did I mention crams?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Knight.Arkenstone

The current benefits for VIP are reasonable, but could do with improving by introducing a few additional benefits:

- Update Hobbit Presents Especially Gold Hobbit Present Offering
Mithril coins, tomes of attack / max morale / defence, run speed, rally horns, stat tomes, rep accelerators, star-liits etc. are useful so should stay as is
Increase gold offerings so they are more relevant to current game e.g. 1g becomes 100g, 2g becomes 200g etc. for Gold (Weekly VIP) Boxes*
Replace dale man crams with “Superior Dale Man Crams” with increased stats to better suit end game & 30 minute duration
Limit Mathom hunter armour to silver boxes only (hurts getting this in your weekly gold box)
Add nicer stuff to the weekly Gold hobbit presents, Regular Key, Black Steel Key, Steed Selection Box, New Cosmetics, Housing Items, increased chance at getting Mithril Coins etc.

- Mithril Coin Allowance: (20 Mithril coins per month)

- Monthly Gift: A new housing item, cosmetic or steed exclusive to VIPs and lotro store. Additionally could even have pre-order items from past expansions such as the song bird, pesky door mouse, steed of the Hammerhand etc. These could be announced in advance every month to generate some hype and encourage people to subscribe even if it’s only for 1 month to get that particular item.

* by limiting the increased amount of gold to weekly hobbit presents (Gold/VIP) we limit impact on economy, provide VIPS with a small benefit and prevent abuse by someone creating lots of f2p accounts

---

what i would dearly like to see is the ability to Transfer char Bound gear to my twinks on same account and same Server by spending 1 Mithril coin.
SSG can decide what the real cost ist but this idea i hope is to generate an extra perk to encourage more VIP and the sale of Mithril Coins.
i believe this will be a win win for Players and for Devs.
can also be a feature for non-VIP if there is a Pay to Win issue. i mean you still have to buy the coins from somewhere.

Its a shame to see sucha productive thread and idea fall by the wayside..

Its very true that VIP at endgame is essentially useless. I will try the legendary server but i cant imagine it holding my attention.

On a side note: I have been opening hobbit presents as a VIP since they were implemented in 2013..i have never gotten any mithril coins or anything of the like. My one perfect crafting scroll finally came in use during NS. But this whole process is more tedious to me than anything as it just takes up space.

I also noticed that the only dev response immediately jumped to the tightest reward that was barely mentioned..cosmetics for 1 month VIP..lol Red Panda is new here isnt he? I am one of the biggest advocates for in game cosmetics too. But, there is barely anything interesting anymore. I saw somebody post that they couldnt think of 12 cosmetics they might even want. Its tired and lazy, constantly recycled designs..each update only offering maybe 6+ new designs. It doesnt take long for an end game player to quickly accumulate nearly every possible combination of cosmetic gear. So..no, we dont want cosmetics.

Anyway, its been a long time coming. Im sick of seeing the player base get constantly ignored. The feeling is stronger everyday that my VIP is worthless. :( sad panda

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Knight.Arkenstone

@RedPanda

I was just wondering if any further progress has been made following this thread?

I know hobbit presents have been adjusted slightly (different mathom hunters armour), but for the most part feel exactly the same.
I'm aware that Legendary Server is due to be released, but this is not something that will interest every subscriber. A lot of us like to play the latest content.

---

We are still working on the feedback from this thread. Thanks for following up!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SSG_RedPanda

We are still working on the feedback from this thread. Thanks for following up!

---

Give it time and do it well. Not everyone has even probably had the opportunity to see this thread and come with suggestions yet. I just noticed it and on my way out to go see my old mom whos fallen and broke her hip friday.

Better to do it slowly and come out with a good subscription reward system than rush it out and no one will end up being really happy. Got to run now, I'll be back when opportunity gives some time to think and suggest. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SSG_RedPanda

We are still working on the feedback from this thread. Thanks for following up!

---

Great to hear!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SSG_RedPanda

We are still working on the feedback from this thread. Thanks for following up!

---

Would be awesome to see VIP benefits updated, I think it is long overdue. I read a lot of great suggestions in this thread that are very appealing for re-subbing. So Ill leave it at that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SSG_RedPanda

We are still working on the feedback from this thread. Thanks for following up!

---

No blue reaction since May and you only respond now because you've been asked directly.

~6 months time and all you can provide is a pointless saving-face gesture of "We are still working on it"?

SSG is a meme at this point, but rather intriguing how you managed to come up with and release a legendary server in weeks.

These are some of the things I'd like to find in my Hobbit Gifts:

• Unlike some others I would love to find some Tools but they could be of different qualities.
• Apart from Landscape Soldier Tokens, perhaps some Cosmetics for the Skirmish Soldiers could be fun.
• Legendary Item Scrolls and enhancements, incl. Crystals appropriate to the level of the player.
• Stone of the Tortois has been mentioned before.
• Rare Recipe cases appropriate to the crafting skills and levels known by the character.
• Crafting Shards appropriate to the crafting skills and levels known by the character.
• Slayer Deed accelerators

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hyruule

No blue reaction since May and you only respond now because you've been asked directly.

~6 months time and all you can provide is a pointless saving-face gesture of "We are still working on it"?

SSG is a meme at this point, but rather intriguing how you managed to come up with and release a legendary server in weeks.

---

You might consider that you (or even we) are not privy to many long-held plans by SSG. It's been proven tough to temper expectations when they come out and say "long-term we'd like to do A, B and maybe even C." If they only get one of those, folks still feel cheated or "lied to" when in fact no commitment was made, only a sharing of some wishlist.

I would bet the Legendary Server has been percolating for more than you imply.

/signed. This would be great!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Firgrim

You might consider that you (or even we) are not privy to many long-held plans by SSG. It's been proven tough to temper expectations when they come out and say "long-term we'd like to do A, B and maybe even C." If they only get one of those, folks still feel cheated or "lied to" when in fact no commitment was made, only a sharing of some wishlist.

I would bet the Legendary Server has been percolating for more than you imply.

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You mean temper as in "We will focus on class balance", part 2 hasn't even been announced yet, blue mini rework is somewhat botched - but they suddenly have the time + resources for a legendary server?

No commitment sounds like SSG: U23 bugs still haven't been fixed almost 4 weeks into the new update, and now they have time + resources out of the blue for a whole new project?

If you consider the current state of the game, the only blue response in here is an empty saving-face gesture, nothing more.

Since this thread is getting SSG eyes, i'll add some more things.... I already replied earlier, but here is an idea or two more....

1) Reward VIP subscribers with a weekly loot box key. In order to make gearing a week bit easier, this would be an incredibly good incentive to have. Each week, say at the same time the weekly quests reset, VIP subscribers get 1 account bound Black Steel Key.

2) Transfer discounts. If you have subscribed to VIP for at least 6 months continuously, you get a 50% discount on transfer tokens. Better yet, receive three free transfers per year after each full year of subscribing without interruptions.

3) An exclusive VIP zone. This zone will have everything known to man that is needed in the game, including things not available to F2P: All crafting, All guilds, Vault, Auctioneer, Skirmish..... but then on top of that all task boards just like in the housing areas, all zone quartermasters to have one central location to trade in coins..... year-round festival NPC's so you can ALWAYS barter in your old festival coinage, even when the festival isn't running. Also an NPC to convert all old coinage you no longer need into marks and medallions. Additionally, the VIP zone will have a number of "portals" that will bring you to a number of locations without needing reputation for that zone, anything from 21st hall to Minas Tirith, to all 5 housing areas. Anyone remember the "Planes of Power" expansion in Everquest way in the day? It provided a central hub which everyone would gather. Obviously, EQ was always a subscription.... but for Lotro such a central zone could be a benefit.

4) Exclusive VIP housing. A new housing zone.... where VIP players can buy a house. But only VIP players..... when your VIP lapses, your house will be "locked" until you resubscribe... (so that you don't have to redecorate when you don't subscribe on an auto-renewal). This can be done through the same writs for premium housing, but maybe slightly cheaper. Suggestion for a housing zone with be the woods of Lothlorien (tree houses, anyone?) or maybe Rohan.

The first thing I would think about in terms of VIP benefits is what VIP should be.
IMO VIP should be "all you need to play, with all convenience that is needed, everything above that is luxury or to compensate for your laziness". With the addition of the stipend to allow a small amount of luxury goods.

In reality it is

• all you need to play for half of the time (expansions excluded)
• a convenience level that has been changed to full grind or store and is on the same level as doing this F2P
• a stipend that is a drop in the ocean in comparison to what the store suggests people should buy for regular play
• freep PvMP in a part of the game that is randomly rebalanced and not really developed (or even wanted by all players)
• a few goodies that people may or may not require (landscape mail) that are not covered by one-time VIP

In this list, not having expansions is IMO the most critical item. It means the most basic need of *playing* is not satisfied during expansion times.
A subscription that does not satisfy the most basic need is meaningless. At that time dropping the sub, buying content and going premium is definitely the better deal.

I would therefore suggest to add expansions to VIP in a limited way, as expansions sales to LTA seem to be a concern.
One option would be to tie temporary expansion access to the 12 month sub, e.g. using an "expansion pass" that is offered as additional subscription (e.g. for LTA), but is included in the 12 month VIP package.
This would also require to offer the special editions as addons, so VIPs can still top up their package.

Disadvantage:

• potential loss of expansion sales to current VIPs (number unknown to us)
• will probably kill permanent monthly subscriptions and make people change to the 12 month packages. This *could* have impact.
• requires to release expansions regularly to keep people subscribing

Advantage:

• VIP is all you need
• the sub becomes a better deal in comparison to being premium with expansions

uhm yeah, I just opened my gold and standard silver not 5 minutes ago...and guess what....I got silver scraps from both....I mean silver scraps from silver gift is fine, but from gold? :mad:

The last four weeks of gold box presents:

3 Max Morale and Power Scrolls
1 Scroll of Finesse
1 Silver Scraps
5 shards

Not really an inducement, if this is meant to keep people subscribing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frace

The last four weeks of gold box presents:

3 Max Morale and Power Scrolls
1 Scroll of Finesse
1 Silver Scraps
5 shards

Not really an inducement, if this is meant to keep people subscribing.

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I got 200 shards Thursday... on a lvl 119 character.

Way upthread, I noted that any shard drops would have to be at least four digits, just to be worthwhile in comparison to shard costs for LI upgrades.

One thing that would cost SSG essentially nothing that would be a motivator for me to keep VIP would be unlimited rename tokens.

Character names are a huge deal to me. I have a long history of naming characters and later feeling that the names are bad match for the way the character grew. I finally broke down and purchased rename tokens for all my LOTRO characters I feel have names that don't suit them. That's a lot of points.

Rename tokens are pretty analogous to free cosmetics.

I also sign for some lootbox keys. I am not a minimax player likely to purchase keys from the store, but bundling a few in as either gold Hobbit presents or some each month would add to the pro/con balance of keeping a VIP subscription.

Thirdly, I'd love to see the XP bonus for characters swapped out for XP Supply items that I could shuffle to the characters I want to advance quicker vs. the ones I don't.

Something that would add value to VIP status would be making all barter items that are bound to self, be bound to account while VIP is active.

I don't think that any new gifts given to VIPs should be available in the store or SSG ends up nerfing its own store income.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NavarreBlood

Something that would add value to VIP status would be making all barter items that are bound to self, be bound to account while VIP is active.

I don't think that any new gifts given to VIPs should be available in the store or SSG ends up nerfing its own store income.

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I like that idea.

My suggestion is that subscribers earn 2X lotro points for deeds done.

Star Trek Online used to give extra perks at Tiers that were based upon the number of days you were VIP up to 1000 days max. Lifetime got all the perks right away.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maartena

Since this thread is getting SSG eyes, i'll add some more things.... I already replied earlier, but here is an idea or two more....

1) Reward VIP subscribers with a weekly loot box key. In order to make gearing a week bit easier, this would be an incredibly good incentive to have. Each week, say at the same time the weekly quests reset, VIP subscribers get 1 account bound Black Steel Key.

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I think this idea is a big winner. One key per some reasonable time interval would keep VIP's current on lockboxes and less tempted to filter them out completely. I know VIP's get 500 LP a month that we can buy a couple keys with if we want, but that flies in the face of loss avoidance. A key freely given will be used to open a loot box, thus allowing their contents to do their own advertising using Costco's best secret weapon - the free sample.

Long thread. I haven't read all of it.

Most discussion has been about Gold Hobbit Gifts. I agree that they've been an overall disappointment. It's not so much that there are a lot of #### rewards, but that, probably over 90% of the time, the once-a-week rewards are no different from the dailies. A couple years ago, my Gold presents on two VIP acounts over a four-week period were one Max Morale and seven Small Pile of Silver Scraps. (on those same four days, I also received Small Pile of Silver from most of the Silver presents).

200MC sounds like it's a widely appreciated present. Thus, I think some 5- and 10-MC presents would be welcome candidates for replacing a few of the big disappointments on the Gold Gift wheel.

Aside from Hobbit Gifts, though, there was a suggestion here that appealed to me: VIPs have a port to all the housing areas. In terms of the UI, I imagine that using the skill could bring up a panel similar to a Stable Master's Travel Destinations menu.

I've never gotten anything but junk from Hobbit Gift boxes, I know a few good items are in the lists, but I've never gotten one. I'm a founder who didn't buy a life time sub (kicks self), the reason this is important is I've been paying monthly for the better part of eleven years. I don't mind supporting SSG, but beyond that, when I go FTP there's almost no difference for me, other than Hobbit Gift Boxes. Over the course of a decade I've made enough points to buy/unlock, everything that can be.

My point is this, the game has evolved, nearly every reward the hobbit gift boxes can give is worthless junk to me, and most players. The few items that could be of use never come up. New items need added, old ones removed, and the chances to get the few useful ones needs increased. The hobbit gift boxes need updated for them to remain a viable incentive for paying VIP subs. I haven't minded supporting SSG, but failure to update basic incentives like this makes be think SSG doesn't appreciate my continued support, and I should just go FTP.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eanamdar

I've never gotten anything but junk from Hobbit Gift boxes, I know a few good items are in the lists, but I've never gotten one. I'm a founder who didn't buy a life time sub (kicks self), the reason this is important is I've been paying monthly for the better part of eleven years. I don't mind supporting SSG, but beyond that, when I go FTP there's almost no difference for me, other than Hobbit Gift Boxes. Over the course of a decade I've made enough points to buy/unlock, everything that can be.

My point is this, the game has evolved, nearly every reward the hobbit gift boxes can give is worthless junk to me, and most players. The few items that could be of use never come up. New items need added, old ones removed, and the chances to get the few useful ones needs increased. The hobbit gift boxes need updated for them to remain a viable incentive for paying VIP subs. I haven't minded supporting SSG, but failure to update basic incentives like this makes be think SSG doesn't appreciate my continued support, and I should just go FTP.

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Hmm, my experience is different. None of it that I get is 'junk'. It is all useful, to varying degrees. I have 'hit the jackpot', too; a fair number of times. ;P

Can we eliminate shards from the presents completely? Shards seems to be about the only thing I get anymore and they aren't worth anything.

I feel like the current set up is something like this....

Shards 40% Chance
Gold 30% Chance
Mathom armor 20% chance
Everything else 10% chance (mostly filled with worthless run speed boosts and potions)


Are we close to getting these revamped?