Burglar Requesting Feedback

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5OHgJVfUlc


I want to get better.


5 things I personally notices after reviewing

- Didn't use HIPS in a couple situations or R&A

- Bad use of CDG on warg at 2:39 and was it bad on BA at start?

- Was not applying Cunning Attack enough

- Movement was not ideal (always something to work on)

- Lastly - lazy skill clicker



Can other players in the community please provide me constructive feed back on what I could do to improve my PvMP play based on their experience w/ burglars. I came back to Lotro 6 months ago, last time playing was at lvl 75 cap, have played a burglar since Watcher raid and mained the class since then but never did lvl 65 raids, only PvMP'd w/ the audacity gear at the time.

Thanks in advance <3

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Originally Posted by CampbellCommunity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5OHgJVfUlc


I want to get better.


5 things I personally notices after reviewing

- Didn't use HIPS in a couple situations or R&A

- Bad use of CDG on warg at 2:39 and was it bad on BA at start?

- Was not applying Cunning Attack enough

- Movement was not ideal (always something to work on)

- Lastly - lazy skill clicker



Can other players in the community please provide me constructive feed back on what I could do to improve my PvMP play based on their experience w/ burglars. I came back to Lotro 6 months ago, last time playing was at lvl 75 cap, have played a burglar since Watcher raid and mained the class since then but never did lvl 65 raids, only PvMP'd w/ the audacity gear at the time.

Thanks in advance <3

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One thing I noticed that you needed to work on was keeping up IFA for your critical chain skills just off the top of my head.

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Originally Posted by dselden

One thing I noticed that you needed to work on was keeping up IFA for your critical chain skills just off the top of my head.

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IFA = ?

Sorry not familiar w/ all the terminology sometimes.

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Originally Posted by CampbellCommunity

IFA = ?

Sorry not familiar w/ all the terminology sometimes.

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Improved feint attack.

Derp. Tyvm.

So keeping IFA up, do you think it has to do w/ rotation and the skills I use, or do you have a system to keep it up as suggestion?

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Originally Posted by CampbellCommunity

Derp. Tyvm.

So keeping IFA up, do you think it has to do w/ rotation and the skills I use, or do you have a system to keep it up as suggestion?

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Always good to see a fellow skill clicker out there. The system I use when clicking skills is to put them in a linear order that I use them. I start in the center and put my crit chain to the left and other skills to the right. I start with improved feint attack and do not use a skill that removes the buff until IFA is off cd. This is generally after I have made it through the crit chain. I recently started doing some recordings to show some kinnies what it was like to get behind the wheel. I don't know if it will be much help but you might could see a bit of what I'm talking about here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AxQHyx4M0Q

It's never good to see a clicker out there, contrary to what the above poster said. It clearly hinders your ability to get your DPS rotation off, while also getting positional damage, let alone sticking to your target. It is evidently a great hindrance to you, and the most important piece of advice that anyone could give you in this situation would be to stop clicking, and start using mouse movement + keybinds. As dselden said, you should keep up IFA as much as possible for the damage buff.

Furthermore, there isn't a single reason to trait Stun Dust, when you can get Double Down from blue line. You should obtain this trait immediately, and use Provoke to consume the IFA buff and daze (but effectively stun, due to the grace period) the target. Your usage of Reveal Weakness was also not optimal. This skill is simply broken, that's how strong it is. You should keep it on your raid assist target. Following the raid assist target seemed to be an issue with your group as a whole, considering how long it took to kill even squishy targets.

Lastly, if you truly want to get the max. possible out of your class, you should make a non-imbued bag for your burglar. Put the Addle Induction Multiplier legacy on it, and use Addle on the defiler when possible. Then swap back to your normal bag. In fact, as a burglar, you should probably be harassing the defiler all throughout the 6v6. Put Reveal Weakness on the RAT, but stick to the defiler to daze/stun/interrupt it as much as possible. Also get the -inc healing relics from the PvP barterer, and slot at least one.

All of that said... You have to be prepared to significantly step up your gameplay when creeps are brought on par with freeps. Your group would likely have been annihilated if any kind of balance existed in this game. Good luck!

After seeing RK nerfed, I can't wait for hunter/burg nerfs to happen as well although there is the debate going on that they did take a silent nerf. I will definitely step up my game-play @giliodor - do you have an example trait build, w/ 89 points from what I've had traited I had an extra point so I got stun dust just because there was nothing else to put it into except +stealth lvl.

As for group play - I do agree that we need to get better as a unit. Brandy freep side pvp has been struggling due to the fact that people are still struggling to clear AoM T2. Even more so after the class nerfs. A lot of the community has been content for raid vs raid at prime time, but a lot of us are trying to change that now.

@johnson - I've watched a lot of your videos but have only recently started trying to focus on improving so I will definitely double watch to see what you are talking about - although I am in a mindset to move out of skill clicking so I can focus on moving w/ mouse. I will definitely be experimenting though, tyvm.

I don't play a burglar, but if I were to make a trait build I'd probably go for this. Put the last point in the -crit defence chance on Crit Chain skills. Also, be sure to have the Gamble Chance legacy on your main bag.

I hear ya camp. A lot of creeps make fun of me because I click my skills and they tell me I should learn to mouse turn and key bind. But these are also the same creeps that tell me I should uninstall the game. So I’m hesitant to take their advice lol. I tried out key binds and mouse turning awhile back and I just didn’t enjoy the game play that came with it. It just seemed like an awful lot of spinning around in circles. My advice would be to play in a manner that makes gameplay enjoyable for you. We all just here to have fun. As for provoke mez, like some other things, I believe it is situational. I personally like having 10% more moral, 5% more mitigations, and a triple stun when engaging multiple targets solo. Being able to mez 1 target into immunity might not be as useful when getting pummeled on by two other creeps. Whatever you decide to do, just have fun with it. That’s what really matters. One other bit of advice I can offer is I would be wary about taking too much burglar advice from someone who says

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Originally Posted by Giliodor

I don't play a burglar

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=P

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Originally Posted by jljohnson4

One other bit of advice I can offer is I would be wary about taking too much burglar advice from someone who says =P

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The fact that I don't play the class, and would yet perform better at than you if I did, should perhaps indicate that I'm more of a reliable source of information than you. But, by any means, feel free to point out what was wrong with what I said...

or did you just make this comment because you're upset that I made fun of your inability to control your character properly? It's ok, you'll get over it. :) In the meantime, don't encourage others to adopt your inferior playstyle. He's asking for advice to improve. To improve, he has to stop clicking his skills.

PS.

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Originally Posted by jljohnson4

I hear ya camp. A lot of creeps make fun of me because I click my skills and they tell me I should learn to mouse turn and key bind. But these are also the same creeps that tell me I should uninstall the game. So I’m hesitant to take their advice lol.

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They say this because you are demonstrably bad at the game, and are yet able to kill multiple creeps at once, by virtue of playing the single most overpowered class in the game.

Nice to see a Video like this.

Feedback for burgler:

i would reccomend 2 different skill trees:

for solo and grp : https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...nShot01556.jpg

last Points both in crit deff debuff.

In Terms of rotaion i can reccomend:

always start with ca out of stealth.aim cdg should be only used if you are 100% sure the target is dead after the cdg+ds.
fa is your second skill to get the buff up.then stab,ba-fb-ds-et.after that your critchain is over and you finish it with provoke if you want the mezz or ca if you want a stronger bleed then the stealth one.if you go for provoje you can do ca after because if it doesnt crit it will stack.
following ca stacks:1ca with faint attack buff.1crit/dev ca without fa buff.X ca with no fa and noncrit.
you can keeo quite good 3-5 ca dots on the target the whole time.

I can heavy reccomend to stop clicking aswell and to use your mouse for movement and your Keyboard+extra mouse Buttons if you have for skills.The razer naga mouse is one of the best for that because you got 13 extra Buttons there.
I know it sounds quite easy to stop clicking.I played burgler myself at lv 65-85 with clicking and was quite sucessfull aswell.But you will notice the difference super fast once you try the other way.

In generel for your gameplay in this Video:
-Keep always reveal weakness on the target your grp actually dps.so if you swap target take it off and put it on again on the next target.
-Keep always addle on the healers(defiler in this case) and if you only got 1 healer on the ba aswell.Best would be a non imbued tool for the -75% induction addle.
-Keep trick dust on the melee Train of the creeps.
-use your big skills(aim-cdg out of stealth) in combination with other big cooldowns from your fellows like oathbreaker.
-Most important:Stay always behind the target and do skils the whole time.If you would have the dps meter combat Analysis in that Video on i would think your dps would be quite low(maybe 3-5k).
in grp fights a red burgler should maintain 12-15k dps.You Need to always fire a skill.
In that Video you waste a lot of time with running around somewhere without doing anything or searching with your mouse for the right skills and searching for next target and stuff.

at last to give your some good exampels here a few pvp burgler Videos i would reccomend:

everything from this channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheOneZepphyr

this Video even tho it is from lv 95: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsHA_gnK44s&t=13s

this burgler as an example that you can click your skills and be still very good: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCH7...XjfKT17BDE3akA

this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0-6RHesbM8

and maybe this can help aswell:I did a dps parse on the training dummy at bullroar test server:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjft...66Oz2w&index=1


greetings from Evernight

Drizzels

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Originally Posted by CampbellCommunity

After seeing RK nerfed, I can't wait for hunter/burg nerfs to happen as well although there is the debate going on that they did take a silent nerf. I will definitely step up my game-play @giliodor - do you have an example trait build, w/ 89 points from what I've had traited I had an extra point so I got stun dust just because there was nothing else to put it into except +stealth lvl.

As for group play - I do agree that we need to get better as a unit. Brandy freep side pvp has been struggling due to the fact that people are still struggling to clear AoM T2. Even more so after the class nerfs. A lot of the community has been content for raid vs raid at prime time, but a lot of us are trying to change that now.

@johnson - I've watched a lot of your videos but have only recently started trying to focus on improving so I will definitely double watch to see what you are talking about - although I am in a mindset to move out of skill clicking so I can focus on moving w/ mouse. I will definitely be experimenting though, tyvm.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBBGIMRIurs is a pretty decent burglar video although the burglar is typically avoiding CDG/Provoke daze spamming in the video.

I really appreciate the advice from everyone!

I know about the skill clicking - it's such a bad lazy habit of mine since I used to be a BPE burg during lvl 75 days when provoke would take threat. Just click TnG, trick, mischievous and afk for 15 seconds :P

Jokes aside, I see a lot of comments on target selection.

Just to put some light out there, the raid leader told me to focus on harassing the BA/Defiler/Reaver as much as possible (I didn't agree w/ the decision but did my job like I was told to) - I see a lot of you talking about the bleed stacking which looking back I could have done a lot better totally agreed.


Opening w/ CA on the BA at the start was something really hit me, Bleed then ifa > CDG would have been a lot better.

One question that popped up in my head is I havent 100% figured out the way provoke mez now. People are telling me it's a guarantee mez but I see it happen like only 30% of the time. Am I missing something for when to use provoke. I always have done - CA|CDG > GA > fb > addle > ifa > aim > CA|CDG > des > exposed t > provoke (or crit chain)

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Originally Posted by CampbellCommunity

I really appreciate the advice from everyone!

I know about the skill clicking - it's such a bad lazy habit of mine since I used to be a BPE burg during lvl 75 days when provoke would take threat. Just click TnG, trick, mischievous and afk for 15 seconds :P

Jokes aside, I see a lot of comments on target selection.

Just to put some light out there, the raid leader told me to focus on harassing the BA/Defiler/Reaver as much as possible (I didn't agree w/ the decision but did my job like I was told to) - I see a lot of you talking about the bleed stacking which looking back I could have done a lot better totally agreed.


Opening w/ CA on the BA at the start was something really hit me, Bleed then ifa > CDG would have been a lot better.

One question that popped up in my head is I havent 100% figured out the way provoke mez now. People are telling me it's a guarantee mez but I see it happen like only 30% of the time. Am I missing something for when to use provoke. I always have done - CA|CDG > GA > fb > addle > ifa > aim > CA|CDG > des > exposed t > provoke (or crit chain)

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you always Need to have the fain attack buff before you do provoke to get a 88% Chance or so.

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Originally Posted by Giliodor

The fact that I don't play the class, and would yet perform better at than you if I did, should perhaps indicate that I'm more of a reliable source of information than you. But, by any means, feel free to point out what was wrong with what I said...

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I try to stay away from making statements like that. It makes one look ignorant when they claim superiority on an imaginary character. Seems as you are pretty comfortable doing that though.

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Originally Posted by Giliodor

In fact, as a burglar, you should probably be harassing the defiler all throughout the 6v6. Put Reveal Weakness on the RAT, but stick to the defiler to daze/stun/interrupt it as much as possible.

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I disagree with that statement. It implies that the burglar should take a support role. Constantly managing CC/interrupts on the defiler throughout the duration of the fight so the other group members can focus everyone else. Now even though burgs got a somewhat of a damage nerf in 22.2, we are able to still put out vast amounts of dps. I'm not sure what setup your imaginary burg has or what your rotation is. I make no assumptions. However from my own personal experience I can say CC management on defilers in a 6v6 is not an issue. The defiler isn't having problems because of my perfectly timed CC or quick addle interrupts. The defiler is having problems because if they don't put everything they've got into spam healing themselves, I'm going to kill them in seconds. Often times the defiler requires heals from a secondary healer (if they brought one) just to keep me from killing him on my own without help from anyone.

So Camp I wouldn't encourage taking the support role in a 6v6. You have the capability to be a wrecking ball. Beeee the wrecking ball Camp =D

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Originally Posted by jljohnson4

I try to stay away from making statements like that. It makes one look ignorant when they claim superiority on an imaginary character. Seems as you are pretty comfortable doing that though.



I disagree with that statement. It implies that the burglar should take a support role. Constantly managing CC/interrupts on the defiler throughout the duration of the fight so the other group members can focus everyone else. Now even though burgs got a somewhat of a damage nerf in 22.2, we are able to still put out vast amounts of dps. I'm not sure what setup your imaginary burg has or what your rotation is. I make no assumptions. However from my own personal experience I can say CC management on defilers in a 6v6 is not an issue. The defiler isn't having problems because of my perfectly timed CC or quick addle interrupts. The defiler is having problems because if they don't put everything they've got into spam healing themselves, I'm going to kill them in seconds. Often times the defiler requires heals from a secondary healer (if they brought one) just to keep me from killing him on my own without help from anyone.

So Camp I wouldn't encourage taking the support role in a 6v6. You have the capability to be a wrecking ball. Beeee the wrecking ball Camp =D

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Well, the idea is that if they bring a spider and such who makes it more difficult to dps as a melee due to slows, then a burglar can effectively remove a healer from the equation by chaining cc together while doing a great deal of damage, causing the defiler to really only be able to focus heal itself when pestered by a burglar. Meanwhile, the other dps can focus on taking out their other healer or dps. It's usually an automatic win in a 6v6 if they don't focus CC/dps on the burglar.

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Originally Posted by CampbellCommunity

I really appreciate the advice from everyone!

I know about the skill clicking - it's such a bad lazy habit of mine since I used to be a BPE burg during lvl 75 days when provoke would take threat. Just click TnG, trick, mischievous and afk for 15 seconds :P

Jokes aside, I see a lot of comments on target selection.

Just to put some light out there, the raid leader told me to focus on harassing the BA/Defiler/Reaver as much as possible (I didn't agree w/ the decision but did my job like I was told to) - I see a lot of you talking about the bleed stacking which looking back I could have done a lot better totally agreed.


Opening w/ CA on the BA at the start was something really hit me, Bleed then ifa > CDG would have been a lot better.
.
One question that popped up in my head is I havent 100% figured out the way provoke mez now. People are telling me it's a guarantee mez but I see it happen like only 30% of the time. Am I missing something for when to use provoke. I always have done - CA|CDG > GA > fb > addle > ifa > aim > CA|CDG > des > exposed t > provoke (or crit chain)

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1.) If you are able to use your initial CA from stealth, don't use a stealth enhanced CA until the initial one is about to wear out. It does significantly more from stealth.
2.) A better rotation for pvp if you aren't worried about abusing provoke is CA, Dust, IFA, Subtle Stab for inc healing debuff, GA, FB, Addle, DES, ET, provoke, CA, IFA, GA, FB, and so on. I prefer to be in stealth when I use CDG, so I usually aim, hips, CDG, then IFA so I'll get the positional buff from critting with IFA if it isn't already up. If the buff is already up, then I'll use CDG->DES. Drizzels can probably give better feedback than I can as well. (Also, speaking from a hobbit burglar perspective where I need to cut FB with addle. I've heard that with the faster animation for men on FB, it can be more productive to use sudden strike and cut it with addle instead.)
3.) Having an addle swap bag is an invaluable tool since the debuff lasts for 30s. It makes healing so much slower for defilers and warleaders and also is extremely effective on blackarrows.
4.) Provoke, sudden strike, and cunning attack all consume the IFA buff, so if you use CA or sudden strike before you use provoke in the 10s window after you use IFA, your provoke daze chance is going to be pretty low (~30-40% instead of 80-90%).

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Originally Posted by jljohnson4

I try to stay away from making statements like that. It makes one look ignorant when they claim superiority on an imaginary character. Seems as you are pretty comfortable doing that though.

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My burglar isn't imaginary. I never said I don't have one. I said I don't play one currently. I've played it in the past, more than enough to know that what you're doing is just playing the class at its most basic level. You should be thankful that there hasn't been a period in the game where burglars were underpowered. Or maybe not. Perhaps you would have improved, if you were forced to. What you currently do, though, is a pretty sorry sight, for a R15 burglar.

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I disagree with that statement. It implies that the burglar should take a support role. Constantly managing CC/interrupts on the defiler throughout the duration of the fight so the other group members can focus everyone else. Now even though burgs got a somewhat of a damage nerf in 22.2, we are able to still put out vast amounts of dps. I'm not sure what setup your imaginary burg has or what your rotation is. I make no assumptions. However from my own personal experience I can say CC management on defilers in a 6v6 is not an issue. The defiler isn't having problems because of my perfectly timed CC or quick addle interrupts. The defiler is having problems because if they don't put everything they've got into spam healing themselves, I'm going to kill them in seconds. Often times the defiler requires heals from a secondary healer (if they brought one) just to keep me from killing him on my own without help from anyone.

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No, it doesn't imply that by any stretch of the imagination. I only said you should daze/stun/interrupt the defiler whilst DPS'ing it, so that the defiler will have to focus on healing him/herself. There is absolutely no reason to not simply continue performing your DPS rotation on the defiler. In fact, it is necessary, to force the defiler to focus on himself.
Moreover, with the current state of freep damage, there is absolutely no reason why two hunters with the support of a red line captain wouldn't be able to take out any target they want at will. They do not need the burglar's support for that. The best a burg can do is put Reveal Weakness on the target, which is what I said he should do, in the first place.

Harassing the defiler is simply the winning tactic. Not only now that freep DPS is broken, but also if it weren't. Just the mere fact that you can brute force your way through the healing doesn't mean it's strategically optimal, or the most consistent strategy. The only reason why the brute force approach works is because burglars and hunters are broken to the point that no other MMO would even allow, if they valued their paying customers. Campbell should learn a different approach that will work, even when (if) creeps are buffed to an appropriate level.

Alright another question for PvMP w/ burglar. Should I prioritize getting audacity vs the t2 raid gear I'm currently using? Because I find myself getting CC'd by BA's A LOT if I don't harass em and spider webs everywhere is slowing movement speed as well to where a lot of defilers are outkiting me so I default to switching what comes my way and trying to improve my burst.

What would y'all do differently movement wise?

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Originally Posted by CampbellCommunity

Alright another question for PvMP w/ burglar. Should I prioritize getting audacity vs the t2 raid gear I'm currently using? Because I find myself getting CC'd by BA's A LOT if I don't harass em and spider webs everywhere is slowing movement speed as well to where a lot of defilers are outkiting me so I default to switching what comes my way and trying to improve my burst.

What would y'all do differently movement wise?

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Mouseturn

Meaning go around all CC, what about it taking more time?

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Originally Posted by CampbellCommunity

Alright another question for PvMP w/ burglar. Should I prioritize getting audacity vs the t2 raid gear I'm currently using? Because I find myself getting CC'd by BA's A LOT if I don't harass em and spider webs everywhere is slowing movement speed as well to where a lot of defilers are outkiting me so I default to switching what comes my way and trying to improve my burst.

What would y'all do differently movement wise?

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Hey Camp. I use a mix of the two. I do 4 of the blade for the set bonus and two of the audacity. But I dont use audacity for the lower cc duration. I personally haven't noticed a huge difference in cc duration while using 2 pieces. I use two pieces because once mastery is capped and it no longer contributes to outgoing damage %, the extra audacity adds directly to your out going damage %. The extra mits and crit D are nice too. At he expense of a little moral, amour rating, and crit chance gained from agility of course. But I find it works well. As far as movement goes, I am a big fan of using an aggressive hips every now and then for the slow immunity and from stealth attack. Using hips aggressively to get a kill might prevent the need for using it defensively to make a quick escape. I have also been looking into using two of the new featured instance pieces for the ever valuable run speed in place of the two audacity pieces. That could also help some with future slow issues. Hope this helps.

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Originally Posted by Giliodor

What you currently do, though, is a pretty sorry sight, for a R15 burglar.

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You seem to be quite fixated on letting me know your opinions on how I should play my burglar (even though no one asked). We are all entitled to voice our opinions. However, I feel I must inform you that your opinion in this matter is absolutely worthless. I base how I play burglar on my own 10 years worth of experience/success and adapt accordingly. Not on the hollow opinions of some nobody who cant wrap their head around the concept that just because my path is different, does not mean I am lost. Good day to you.

I appreciate all the feedback, and the dramalama is real here lol.

I was also looking at new gear, but lvl 120 will come out, and farming for it is pointless then imo. Especially do the fact was there not supposed to be "T2 moors gear" coming out? But I already cap my PM/30% crit/50% tact mit and 48% pvp mit when traited red into blue.

I will take a closer look at builds y'all linked and compare mine. I know I'm traited for as much glass cannon as possible w/ 89 points.

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Originally Posted by Giliodor

The fact that I don't play the class, and would yet perform better at than you if I did, should perhaps indicate that I'm more of a reliable source of information than you. But, by any means, feel free to point out what was wrong with what I said...

or did you just make this comment because you're upset that I made fun of your inability to control your character properly? It's ok, you'll get over it. :) In the meantime, don't encourage others to adopt your inferior playstyle. He's asking for advice to improve. To improve, he has to stop clicking his skills.

PS.



They say this because you are demonstrably bad at the game, and are yet able to kill multiple creeps at once, by virtue of playing the single most overpowered class in the game.

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https://media.giphy.com/media/3oFzmr...492M/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by KayleahSunshine

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Amazing to see a former council member contribute to the discussion as well. Really goes to show why you were elected in the first place; because you're able to handle yourself so well in a discussion. You don't let petty grudges get in the way of your own valuable insights, that's a rare thing these days.

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Originally Posted by Giliodor

Amazing to see a former council member contribute to the discussion as well. Really goes to show why you were elected in the first place; because you're able to handle yourself so well in a discussion. You don't let petty grudges get in the way of your own valuable insights, that's a rare thing these days.

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I don't often agree with giliodor but this was beautiful. Someone send for the burn unit

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Originally Posted by J-Moneyforever

I don't often agree with giliodor but this was beautiful. Someone send for the burn unit

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Meowburglar >>> Immanitas.

Haven't played burglar in awhile, but as some have said before, learn to mouse turn. It's hard, it's tough, but it's 100% worth it, especially considering you are playing a positional class. Good luck!

if you wanna mouse turn learn it in pve (questing) where its relatively risk free. If you're mouse turning, by default you'll need keybinding. Bind keys close to your movement keys (should be wasd) and practice using 2 or 3 skills via pressing keys and work your way up.

Also I know it's not a permanent fix but you could farm DN for the gold leaves and stock some lothlorien survival guides. They help in a pinch. https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Ite...Survival_Guide