Deleting any and all feedback posts I've made due to community manager response.
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Deleting any and all feedback posts I've made due to community manager response.
Considering there is no healing legacies on the weapon currently, imho the best solution would be to balance the Beorning with the Abyss set bonus and then phase out that set by putting the newly balanced bonus on a new weapon legacy (not stacking with the set of course)
Looks like its nerfbat time for the beornings. Double whammy nerf to both the magnitude of encouraging roar and to its tiered components. Instead of the listed 15% nerf, it's a larger magnitude nerf to the teired component by 33% on their 3 which should be representing over 90% of the main tank heals which represents lots of heals. Guess it's time to quit as I enjoy playing beornings, hate minstrels ( who received a huge buff ) and rk group healing just isn't there.
if you think its fine if 90% of tankhealing was a single tiered hot that only needs to be refreshed each 10s (if that was true), then maybe you should think about how active being a healer should be for a balanced game...Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoPromethious
Right. I was also rooting for a ER nerf. We'll see how it works out. If it is "okay" now they might just tweak a little bit in the future and not nerf him into the ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oelle
As every healer we have to Look at crits...a hot that crits with 80k was just way too High.Quote:
Originally Posted by dsltn07
Bellow often crits. ~74k without buffs.It is a raid wide heal.
Hearten should heal more. Less CD is not possible.
Mend crits with ~68k without buffs.
Maul crits with 45k without Buffs on raid. Long cd though.
ER crits with 90k without Buffs. It crits very high in raid.
The big crits and the raid wide healing are our pros.
The con is that we sometimes just watch someone die because we have CD on the heal we need.
Maybe bellow is the Skill that should have a healing over time on group. We often overheal with it.
Best is 60k? I am not talking about the set hot. Only for you I just logged in and healed a random dwarf guard in Skarhard. There was a 73-76 crit quite often sry. Tested about 5 mins. YES the range is 21k-76k. Crits alone had a range from 56k-76k.Quote:
Originally Posted by dsltn07
Without a group , without water lore ,without the 5-15% a Beo is able to get infight himself etc pp. I saw even over 80k crit hots in raid and I am not a liar.
https://i.imgur.com/B4u0LDj.jpg
I don't know what is the best thing to do okay? Add another skill? Faster, less healing and lesser cd? Or add a panic like fellowships heart? idk
And pls do not be that offended. It is not my fault that crits in this game are our of control. On every class since forever.
Over nerfing as usual with no compensating anywhere, typical SSG. Guess we wait in limbo for months/years again.
No fix/rework to Execute, that is an utter garbage skill nowadays. The Beorning is not even close to competetive dps.
There are other OP skills in the game, revealing mark for one, yet that never gets touched and it is one of the worst offenders in the entire game.
So we have a a RK and Minstrel that will heal as well as a Beorning but also bring extra buffs and mitigations. Will the Beorning be wanted again as a healer, when these other classes are available?
Well, the difference between us seems to be that you want a larger rework that includes reworking the fact that a large single target heal also heals the group. While I think the way the Beorning plays with Abyss bonus is fine gameplay wise even if the class is somewhat OP hence why I suggested Vastin should continue to work on balancing it and then move the bonus into class once he is satisfied with its potency.Quote:
Originally Posted by dsltn07
Nobody wants the Abyss set to last until Minas Morgul
Hi everyone!
I'm concerned, too. The title of this thread says all and I agree with it.
But I would suggest to wait until tomorrow and see how things work. Or, even better: at least until the next weekend when Anvil Tier 3 can be tested as a healing bear.
To be honest: For now I don't see a problem for T2 with those changes. I'm concerned about Anvil T3.
I am fully with dsltn07 on this, and I do not have the abyss set nor can I get it on my server. I was on break (mind you, I kept my VIP running regardless because I am stupid like this, loyal and wanting to support the devs even when I am not playing, bought big Mordor bundle too despite the fact it contained nothing I was interested in) while abyss was run, and now there is no way I can gain this set. We are 120 now, I should not be reliant on a 115 set that requires to run a 115 raid when a new raid is out. Many beorns who were either on break or were still leveling when abyss was run, will be in the same position, and I find it very disheartening to see this nerf. I paid for the beorning, and the class was quarter baked on its release and then neglected for ages. Finally it got an upgrade and some love given, yet then the crying started, and now it pretty much looks like I need an old raid set to be competitive with other healing classes.
It quite simply is a deep pity and frankly a shameful act from the devs here, as money was gained from this class, then those of us who spent it were left hanging, then finally no longer ignored, just to see the little bit we were given to be taken again from us.
That nerf would have been ok had it run alongside with other improvements, alas the hammer had to fall fast before other issues were sorted. This nerf could have waited a bit longer while working out a way to keep the beorn fun and competitive. Again, a pitty and rather shameful, and for what little it is worth - it is affecting the way I feel towards the dev team.
They never stopped ignoring you, me and everyone else who gave feedback on this class. They just jumped in, fiddled about a bit with no real understanding of the issues of the class and replaced the old problems with some slightly different yet equally jarring new problems. If someone were to create a magical post that perfectly summarised the Beorning and gave explicit directions on how to resolve all of the problems in a perfectly balanced way I sincerely doubt that SSG would even bother responding.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starina
They don't care for what the players have to say, they just like to give the illusion that they do.
Still breathing, no longer caring.Quote:
Originally Posted by dsltn07
If overhauling/updating mine/Morphails old work is what you want to do I wish you luck. All you can really do in this situation is try to put the best possible form of your argument forth and invite discussion/collaboration from the remaining members of the community. Just keep in mind that in all likelihood SSG will completely ignore you and not give you a fraction of the respect you deserve for continuing to try help fix the mounting mechanical issues of an aging game.
You care more than they do and that's a pretty lousy situation to be in.
Yes, I am aware of that. I was aware of it when I made the former statement, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by dsltn07
Based on it I think everything is doable still, even doable in a good way. If this is the case for Anvil T3 - nobody knows yet. If Minis are again OP in comparison to bears - nobody knows yet. It is possible, but we will know in a week or two.
(And I'm talking as a yellow bear player who doesn't use the Abyss set)
I still thought that crit magnitude on healing is too big. If ER+bellow crit, you heal somewhere around 150k in 2s and the tank is usually fully healed. If they don´t crit, then you heal around 40-50k, and since the skills are on cd, you need much more than a tripple time.
Some time ago i read that the crit issue is Not that easy to fix...Quote:
Originally Posted by dsltn07
So you think it would be better If heals were Not able to crit at all? That would maybe be easier to do. Let us be honest..every healer tries to reach krit Cap anyway. So they have all equal stats anyway. A good healer is Not about crits but about rotation, movement etc...
Of course values needed to be buffed then...
????Quote:
Originally Posted by dsltn07
" Crit mag and chance are both far too high." ??? This? For example? And I said that I once read that it is not so easy to fix this!
After that you went on with the Boss damage but I was referring to the crit issue.
Right now If they would just take away the high hits of the bosses everything would be way to easy. By letting them be but taking healing crit chance away and
increase base healing healer could calculate better and would not rely on crits.
Heal buffs/nerfs aside, it would be a nice quality of life improvement to be able to re-apply our Marks of Beorn/Grimbeorn before triggering their cooldowns wouldn't it? It's weird having to wait 5 seconds before you can toggle them on to a new target because a lot of our yellow kit seems to suggest it should be used in a reactive way. Even better if the cooldowns were reduced as well so you're able to quickly pop it back on your tank when needed. I know this has been suggested before along the lines of matching it up with the way Captain marks work so umm...I kind of wonder why they've been left unchanged? It's not going to hurt things if we can pop skills like Honey Cleanse/Shake Free/Sacrifice around our group as needed and being able to juggle Grimbeorn's Spirit/Raging Blow stacks on different targets seems like a nice bit of added complexity. Is there some obvious reason why it would be a bad change that I'm failing to see?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aelbryht
It adds complexity, but also power:
Cleansing stack of 3 wounds/diseases/posion/fear every 5s
ER t3 hots permanent on 2 targets
+15% dmg on dd
and all of that simultaneously.
Today you can have 2 hots OR 1 hot and 1 +15%dmg with some work and risk (like not avalaible shake free bubble because of cd on sign or wrong target), but not everything on the same time.
Worth changing though? Would you enjoy being able to be more reactive with your mark use? Vastin can in theory balance our healing more easily after the normalization work so it seems worthwhile to also spend time making sure yellow line plays out in an engaging manner (advanced class etc.).Quote:
Originally Posted by dsltn07
Thanks that clears things up! So if Mark of Grimbeorn becomes too available then you lose all risk associated with applying it on someone other than your main tank and there's also some power creep as you can sustain stacks on multiple people more easily. Would it be enough to change the cooldown behaviour then and not the length? Or leave the same behaviour but go down to just 3 seconds or so? Not change anything?Quote:
Originally Posted by Estelrandir
The Beorning needs an extra skill or two.
They are also the ONLY healer class that has to worry or manage their power pool. Every other healer can spam all day long.
I would like to see a couple more healing skills added and for Execute to be reworked, to actually give Beornings some competetive dps. Then the Beorning may be in good shape.
You know, this is something that I never really thought much about, but I like the idea a lot. When I first started playing my Beorning, I thought that the marks seemed like they should be used more proactively than Cappy marks, but I just couldn't really place how it would work well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aelbryht
What if they just reduce the cooldown of Mark of Grimbeorn down to 1-2s, but make it so that Encouraging Roar's AoE HoT from the Abyss set can overwrite the single-target HoT? This would make it so that the Beorning has to choose between a more passive and reactive playstyle when it comes to marks. If you keep the Abyss set on, then you can only maintain your HoT on one target, but you have some AoE heal benefit being given to compensate. If you don't use the Abyss set so you can keep the HoT on two people, you lose a good chunk of AoE healing in order to have better single-target healing (for example, being unable to maintain the HoT on both groups in a raid). Also, having to spend more animation time applying the mark over and over would cut into our dps support with Bees/Armour Crush time-wise, so that would be another tradeoff we would have to take into consideration.
Since the Encouraging Roar HoT nerf last patch, I don't think that this would be necessarily overpowered either. It would just give us more options, and would actually make Beornings without the Abyss set more viable in a raid setting as a healer (because of HoT on both tanks). Buffing the trait Raging Blow in yellow to maybe 30% or even 50% would also help incentivize this playstyle, and would give more credence to Beorning actually being a support class in yellow line like it was intended to be.
All of this would give tradeoffs between AoE/single-target heals/proactive support/DPS utility, which would definitely make yellow-line much more interesting than spamming a healing rotation over and over, as we would have to vastly change what we do situationally to give our group the best benefit we can.
Also, maybe some utility could be given to Mark of Beorn as well? I don't really know how this would be achieved, but right now, it is rather underwhelming. The only real synergies with Mark of Beorn are Piercing Roar (damage debuff; minimally useful), Grisly Cry (AoE fear; very minimally useful), and Vicious Claws (miss chance; useless). I'm just spitballing here, but what if we have it so man-form/bear-form damage skills apply different debuffs to the target? For example, man-form damage skills apply an outgoing damage debuff (what Piercing Roar's benefit is), and bear-form damage skills apply an incoming damage debuff (5%?). Give these effects a duration of 10s maybe, and make it so they can stack with each other? This way these buffs wouldn't be completely negligible, but they wouldn't be overpowered either
Thoughts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColMcStacky
While I like the idea of more reactive play, the problem with short cd on Mark of Grimbearn would be that it would be every second skill in the rotation:
MoG on -> skill which improves on such target -> MoG off -> one-two random skills -> MoG on -> ...
And I hate spamming one single skill so often. Also, it slowers then our reaction by fraction of time (i.e.: first apply MoG, then the actual skill)
To the Mark of Beorn - I actually like aoe fear. Yes, it is very situational, but if used well it mitigates a lot of incoming dmg. I used it mostly with single target dd in Glimmerdeep. Piercing roar would be amazing if it worked as by LM but it doesn´t.
So, yes, some additional utility would be welcomed.
I get where you're coming from here with regards to Mark of Grimbeorn, and you are right. That can get old pretty fast. I was just spitballing ideas really. Maybe if durations were increased on the buff effects, but not on the HoT effects, that would alleviate this problem a bit? Also, decreasing the animation time of Mark of Grimbeorn would help with the reaction time element of this issue. If it was made an immediate skill, that'd also help speed things up a bit because you can animation cut longer animations with it then instead of waiting for them before you wait for the mark to apply in order to use the skill you wanted to use.Quote:
Originally Posted by Estelrandir
I guess the only consolation is that my suggestion doesn't remove utility from it's current purpose, so you wouldn't really have to change your play-style if you didn't want to. It would just serve to add more support elements to a traitline that was originally supposed to be a support role, not a healer, as far as I'm aware.
And with regards to the Mark of Beorn fear, yeah. There are some situations where it is useful. If my suggestion for it is implemented though, that doesn't mean that this AoE fear needs to be removed, as it already is incredibly situational. I don't think that would make it overpowered or anything honestly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColMcStacky
My issue with MoG is that I don´t have clear view of purpose of it. It seems to stregthen the heals on given target, but usually it is a tank and tank doesn´t need the +15% dmg buff. It is allowed to switch the targets of MoB, but one doesn´t get advantage of it immediately (hot ticks every 3s, you need to press 5 heal skills first to achieve +5% incoming healing buff).
If we are talking about min maxing, it is better to switch MoG every 5s for the best output. But then we lose advatange of our reaction skills (wound/... cleansing, bubble, 5% morale heal chance) and incoming heal buff.
I would like to solve it somehow, but currently I have no idea how. Shortening the cd on MoG will lead to spam of this skill. Prolonging buffs like +15% dmg will avoid spamming of MoG, but we will be still force to use MoG just for one skill and then put it on cd to get advantage on other targets -> thus losing reaction advantage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsltn07
Did you test the 40% or just 20%? did you test it on t1/t2 or t3? All this will result in different % reduction.
In general, the short duration on some debuffs/dots isn´t issue with very short cds on skills because it means you can renew them very quickly on new targets. Issue rises if there are too many skills with short buffs/debuffs/dots, because it means we are not able to maintain everything. This leads to choosing the ones which are more efficient and thus rendering other useless. Nice example is slash/trash t3. You can´t have both, thus stacking ability of slash is useless if you use t3 trash OR the trash t3 is useless if you are using slash t3 dot.
So yes, prolonging of buffs/debuffs/dots or lowering the tiers after expiration would be welcomed. Still, there are also other options of renewal, e.g. use skill B to renew the effect of skill A.
One of my favorites ideas for tanking would be if the debuff from slam could be renewed and spread with claw swipe. This way it would support the idea of staying longer in bear form in blue line and it would add other way of mitigating the incoming damage instead of something as generic as blocking without shield. Of course, the debuffs would need to work in the way that they are debuffing total outgoing damage, not mastery.
But all this would require proper look at the class but the devs sadly don´t have time for it.
Just wanted to point out that a we have a Beo + Mini/RK healing our T2 raid perfectly fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by dsltn07
Does not mean it should not be smoothened but "medicore" is underrated.
Not sure about red line and If they should waste time on it. I do not really see a Beo taken as a DD No Matter what they fix. I think it is good enough for leveling.
I have seen blue bears tanking 3/6 man on T3, too. This is just Not the most famous tree either. The mits and the panic are quite nice and aggro management is also better than on other tanking classes.
The Bear needs tweaks - yes, but he is in a far better state overall than in Mordor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsltn07
Yes..I read. Still there are more important things than the Red beo and as a melee class it would be a Lot harder anyways...I also did Not say anything Bad about blue???? I Said it is quite good but Not many players are playing a main Beo Tank.
I will not answer you again anyway because you Always get a little rude and / or do not understand my intentions :3
I dont think the Beorning will see any more work lol. Vastin obviously thinks he/shes done a good job :P. Execute is a joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by dsltn07